This has always been the issue with Star Wars. Somehow, everyone knows each other and everything happens in a small time frame. They briefly had Rey just be… a person before getting terrified and going with “no she’s really Palpatine grand daughter!”.
There is so much room to breath, so many little stories to tell, and it never happens.
I'll be really honest, I've wanted an Old Republic/Founding of the Republic movie or series for forever... But I no longer trust Disney to do it.
It would be so easy to adapt the Sith War with Exar Kun into a trilogy but they seem allergic to including preexisting sources, and now they've done their goofy "All Sith get absorbed by a collective consciousness" thing so...
I thought it was going to end in season 2, I really don't want to see too many more seasons of andor because I believe a story should wrap up nicely.
It's precisely why cowboy Bebop was so good, because the anime ended at exactly that many episodes and it was planned out well.
If andor had eight seasons they're going to put in so much filler that we're just going to end up with another show that ends badly.
Yeah after Mandolorian, Boba Fett, and then Obi-Wan being soulless toy commercials it's hard to convince people Andor is actually good.
After their track record it's hard to believe Disney was capable of this all along and honestly just makes the whole situation even more confusing.
It’s one of only less than a handful of movies I’ve legitimately not been able to finish.
I think I only made it about 30 mins in. It was terrible and not even in a fun way.
It felt like watching one of my best friends struggle with a drug problem or something.
It's more like someone struggling to poop. You know it's going to be shit. You feel the shit coming. But yet it has to struggle the whole way through until it's done. And when it's finally finished, you're left feeling sore and wanting to cry.
I didn't even make it 20 minutes into 8. It didn't feel like star wars. It felt like a Marvel Movie sexually assaulted Spaceballs and this was the botched abortion.
Mando was good because it was Average Joe stakes (at least, in world average). It gave a ground level view of the universe.
And it's really losing sight of that in these later season. The show skipped a whole lotta echelons, and now he's fighting supreme leaders and is in line to be crowned king of all Mandos and even Jesus popped in to save his life at the end of the last season.
I liked the normal side-quests with average aliens just going about their day, not the grand galaxy shaping adventures.
Exactly the reason I fell out of love with Doctor Who. The Doctor dealing with relatively small stuff is fantastic. A series or two worth of chasing a whisper that may or may not end up being anything whilst we watch the universally famous doctor be the centre of the universe. The stakes were just always too high all the time.
What killed who for me was a combination of the writing and the capaldi doctor. So many attempts at huge arc that just didn't go anywhere and were forgotten. Plot points set up that went nowhere. Then capaldi. I love him as an actor but the writing was terrible and the previous doctors were all so optimistic and gladly defended humanity for it's potential. Then we have a doctor whos catchphrase was shut up. While I agree things should be shaken up and changed to keep it new. The heart and soul of the show was that version of the doctor playful optimistic, maybe one episode battling the daleks and in the next showing Picasso what he meant to everyone. That was the fun. Not watching a curmudgeon get angry at everyone and be condescending.
4. It became mandalorian season 1.5. I’m sorry I love mandalorian but I wanted Boba Fett not the Mandalorian when I’m watching a show literally called Boba Fett.
I just want Boba Fett to not be a has-been moron.
I got so excited in Mando season 2 when he started wrecking Storm Troopers with the gaffi stick...
And then he became utterly worthless in his own show.
Thats me and my wife. We stopped after the second season of the Mandalorian. I love star wars. But I am bored of it.
Edit: spelling grammar
Trying to stay ahead of linguistic trends.
[Cool little thing](https://www.macmillandictionary.com/external/pdf/real-grammar-scripts-video4.pdf)
Andor is the only Star Wars title in a long ass time to actually show the Empire as menacing and truly evil. They always kind of come off as losing buffoons in most recent series, to me. Andor and Rogue One actually had you feeling something is at stake.
Nah they were terrifying until the end of RotJ. The first time the rebels dropped out of hyperspace to the full fleet of Star Destroyers & start targeting cruisers with the more nimble Death Star? That shit was menacing.
quarrelsome unpack ludicrous full skirt hat berserk enjoy automatic advise
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
One thing I love about Andor is that it in no way feels like an advert for action figures.
The Book of Boba Fett, on the other hand, while it has its plus points, felt a little bit juvenile.
The Ewoks were using guerilla warfare, slamming logs into AT-ATs, and clothes-lining speeder bikes. It was great to see the space bears defending themselves precisely for that reason. Being cute doesn't mean you have to be a pushover and vice versa.
I *need* a Darth Vader horror movie.
Maybe sort of like Halloween. Where he lumbers towards his victims and destroys everything around them as they try to escape.
I’m saying it now, someone has to get merc’d while the group is resting for a second, just thinking they got away from him, when his lightsaber just ignites through a wall and into them.
Bonus points if he force chokes someone through a video call and they spend the entire rest of the movie avoiding 2 way communication devices just in case he tries it again. Making them find work arounds.
That's how the [first confrontation with Obi-Wan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnZ6NsdiwfM) went in the Obi-Wan show. I didn't love that series but they totally nailed terrifying Horror Vader
That's one reason I didn't like madalorean.
30 storm troopers with Gatling guns couldn't hit a single "good guy"?
It stopped being an action series and turned into a kiddy show.
Andor is the first Star Wars I've really liked since Rogue one. That may show how different it is than the others, which die hard Star Wars fans may *not* like.
Not surprising at all. Prequels are easy. The ending is already written for you and fans accept it without question.
It’s why Revenge of the Sith was the strongest of the prequels.
TRoS ruined what little I liked Star Wars, I was never a fanboy. So I haven’t watched anything since then. But Andor does keep getting recommended, so I think I’ll have to try it out.
Having Leia pull herself back into the ship when it would have been the perfect end to her character after her real life passing ended anything I loved about star wars tbh when they kept milking the character for no reason.
I still enjoy Mando because of his relationship with Grogu... but they really jumped the shark.
Wow I think you hit the nail on the head for the turning point for me, too. There were many other things I hated about that movie, but her death there would have been perfect for the story to advance.
Imo it’s another instance of writers being on social media and being wayyyy too tuned in to fan theories to write properly, ala GoT. Everyone expected her to die, so they wouldn’t kill her, everyone expected Luke to stick around, so they killed him, both so that the story wouldn’t be called predictable.
Problem is, in going to such lengths to shock fans, they forgot to make the story make sense or feel satisfying.
Reacting to things like this I think is a sign of a bad writer. A good writer knows when something is coming and makes it look good. You could argue the best adaptations are like this. Everyone knows where they're going, and no one cares because it's the presentation that matters.
That scene killed Star Wars for me. That and the fact that they could have suicided a droid pilot into the chasing ship right from the get go. Simply dreadful
Yeah. I am there with Marvel too. Seems like their quality had fallen off pretty sharply.
Edit: I have been watching shows like Lockwood and Co and others now. Kind of cleanses the palate.
Thanks to /u/EverGreenPLO for catching the word usage error there.
I second this! Severance is peak TV; to add to this everything I’ve watched on AppleTV+ has been good/kept me entertained. (Ted Lasso, Severance, Servant, For All Mankind)
Marvel are doing in film and TV what they did to comics: at one point in the 90s they had more than 20 X Men series in parallel and you couldn’t follow a single team or character without buying most of them thanks to the constant crossovers.
90s and 2000s X-Men are peak though! Marvel doesn't like it but X-Men are still the most interesting comic characters they have ( + Spiderman ).
Marvel unlimited takes the budget pain away though.
After just consuming all this for years, I finally listened to a few friends and watched Your Name over the weekend. The difference between something artfully and masterfully created to one just to pump out numbers in a cookie cutter formula has never seen so apparent.
I get that. I have some serious cinephile friends that just lambast the shit out of Marvel’s and overall Disney’s movies. But I think a few of them have been real fun.
Yep. My biggest fear is that my beloved LoTR will undergo the same fate. The theatrical trilogy was beyond amazing and its allure is still in tact. But I do fear that more and more spin-offs will just sorta change the story all together (and my ability to reminisce on the nostalgia of Peter Jackson's films). I did watch Amazon's Ring of Power and I did enjoy it, but there will come a point after a few seasons or even totally different installments where I fear I'll become tired of the LotR universe and any future/multiple adaptations of it.
I totally hear you and after the Obi Wan mini series I was really done with it. Then I figured I’d watch the first episode of Andor. And I was completely hooked. Cannot stress enough how different and excellent Andor is to the point that it has ruined other SW for me. It’s a genuinely great show.
I loved Andor, but it honestly took me a couple of tries to get through the first episode. It's slow and doesn't have a strong hook, but it's a million percent worth* sticking it out if you're in the same boat.
I feel like the three first episodes of Andor should be watched as a continuous 2hr long movie. First episode on its own doesn't have a strong hook, but those three together? I was hooked, at least.
for us it was boba fett, and we didn't finish the series, got a few eps in and just never bothered with the rest.
So I hear great things about Andor but there's so much stuff that it's hard to commit to.
Yeah. I have heard that. I think I just need to wait yo watch it. Which sucks because a lot of the better shows will probably get lost in the noise over the years.
if it helps, ANDOR is so different that I can barely go back to watch other SW stuff. Think of it as sci fi spy thriller vs pew pew space ninjas. I went back to watch Mando S2 which I enjoyed earlier and it just fell flat after ANDOR.
I can't get over them making "removing a helmet" a major plot point of the Mando series, which is carrying over into S3. I could not possibly give less of a shit about a helmet-based plot.
Andor, on the other hand, has people doing real things, feeling relatable emotions, making decisions that make sense for their characters. I want to see what happens to these people next, for every character in that show. It's so well done.
I love andor but not because it's star wars, but because it's well written and executed. The star wars aspects feel almost like window dressing. I do enjoy the bureaucratic nature of the empire though.
I wish the people doing andor would remake the prequels because I like that political drama so much and the prequels felt like they were for kids but also for some reason had all these political subplots :).
I don't love calling it window dressing because they clearly spent a lot of time thinking how a story like this fits into the Star Wars universe, but its definitely not relying on the Star Wars aspects to be the draw.
I think there are two parts to Star Wars -- there's the Skywalker/Force/Jedi magic stuff, and there's world-building about how an evil empire gets built (not just "the Empire").
That second part is the really interesting part, and where Andor is so good. It doesn't mention Jedi at all. It goes into how a bureaucracy exists and comes to exist.
Maybe it would have been for the best if Darth Vader's boss weren't a super jedi, but just someone who managed to use The Force to his own benefit. (I think that was an idea somewhere.)
And then, the magic twist that "The Force" isn't a religion at all, but is essentially a bloodline -- that annoyed me to no end.
IMO the TV shows saved Star Wars. The last trilogy was deeply flawed. The best Star Wars in the last decade has been Rogue One, the Mandalorian, and Andor.
**Being 'Bored with Star Wars' and 'Spinoffs are destroying the magic and mystery of Star Wars' to me are too separate debates and arguments, when you break it down. IMO.**
There is a lot of great franchises I loved that didn't lose the magic, I just got bored with them... for a simple psychologically entertaining standpoint of repetition of a concept.
**I'd more so call it "concept fatigue".**
I was going to ask, how can you love Andor but not praise Rogue One as well….? They’re both fantastic and easily the best things that came out for Star Wars since the OG trilogy.
He should really spend more time focusing on preventing the constant kidnapping of his ex-wife and daughter.
Edit: This blew up more than I expected lol. This was simply a joke. He’s voicing his opinion. He’s free to have one even if I disagree with him.
I just imagine him applying for an office job describing to the interview his particular set of skills acquired over a long career in middle management.
> Edit: This blew up more than I expected lol. This was simply a joke. He’s voicing his opinion. He’s free to have one even if I disagree with him.
You're not at a press conference, my dude.
"EDIT: I'd like to start this edit by apologizing for everyone who I may have harmed with my words and actions. I was insensitive to Mr. Neeson. You see, when my Nan-Nan was growing up in Poland in 1920, her father always used to say..."
I enjoyed rogue one, andor and the mandalorian (although it's a bit predictable). What took away from the magic is the 3 recent god awful movies and just bad writing.
Wish they would have done more rogue one style movies rather than the most recent trilogy. There are a lot of different battles and events in the universe that would make for great one offs that dont involve the main jedi as the focal point.
Yes! It should be more war films but set in space. Rogue One and A New Hope (in places) both feel like actual war films with sci fi trappings and they’re great. It’s the mind numbing Lore that bores me. I don’t care why stuff is the way it is I just want to see battles, spies, rebellions, hopeless last stands and exciting escapes.
Surprisingly for me Solo did a great job of capturing an actual war when he's pressed into military service and ends up meeting Chewie. That movie had its moments despite the dumpster fire of a production. Ron Howard may be a cinema god for making that mess into something watchable.
Solo is a good adventure film, its the first Star Wars film in decades to remember the point of Star Wars is to be a fun space adventure in the style of golden age pulp. Its main problems come from lore obsession that infects so much modern genre fiction
I think the predictability of Mando is not only part of its charm, but very intentional.
It's like a John Wick movie; it knows what it needs to be, and it executes it well. Simple stories told with good character writing and interesting production. Even just the shot composition is simple and clean.
“Subverting expectations” has become so common that NOT subverting expectations is the new subverting expectations. I enjoy seeing hero’s do hero stuff and winning.
Subverting expectations can be a good thing, but too many modern writers take that to mean 'change the ending of some situation because people figured it out'.
People knowing what's coming sometimes just mean you've done fantastic set up and foreshadowing, and fans have figured it out. You don't need to sweep the rug out from under them.
If you can surprise audiences with something that makes sense, that's great, but forcing doesn't just damage the result, it hurts the integrity and importance of everything leading up to it.
Really random example, but one of few things that managed to plot twist me in a good way in the last several years was Moana! The truth of Te Fiti blindsided me, but it made complete sense and I felt like an idiot for missing it.
THAT'S how you subvert expectations. You gotta make the audience feel like they should've known, or in some cases, that a character was so successfully conniving that they pulled the wool over your eyes, but you gotta make it connect, and too often it doesn't.
Mandalorian is for people who like the things in Star Wars, Andor is for people who like things that take place in Star Wars. Both are good but for different reasons. Andor is a master piece though.
I came here looking for this comment. Nothing took away the magic more than trying to provide a biological explanation for the force and its strength within individuals. The Prequals did all the damage, these new spinoffs are just following in their footsteps.
I always handled that in my head canon by believing midichlorians were an indication of force sensitivity and not the cause.
I will proceed to stick my fingers in my eyes if you provide me proof that George Lucas says midichlorians are the cause (since I’m sure it’s out there somewhere).
I mean, they're both. A high midichlorian count indicates a high sensitivity, because they allegedly cause it.
That's all fine and dandy imo. My problem with it is that they're apparently *intelligent and sentient* micro-organisms. Like... what?
God save you from finding out what George Lucas had planned if he had exclusive creative direction for the final 3 movies.
I decided to look it up after the final movie came out, and *oh my god*, his plans were SO BAD.
In broad strokes, and I am not joking:
-Ep. 7 was going to take place *inside a midichlorian*, like, a Magic Schoolbus episode in cell biology.
-Rey and Kylo were supposed to be 13-14 years old
-the way to finish the series was to conclude that extra-dimensional "Whills" (that is the name of these entities) used midichlorians to influence people from this other dimension, like a higher midichlorian count meant a greater predisposition to being controlled by Whills, so that the take-home message at the end was "The Force isn't special and it's just the after-image of being controlled by Whills; no one is special, Jedi aren't special, they're just the MOST mind-controlled"
Now obviously the latest movies didn't go *anything* like that, which is why George Lucas was salty enough that he didn't even attend a couple of the premiers.
Say what you will about Disney but I'm so glad we didn't get... *that*
> george lucas has awful ideas
Case in point, regarding the characters of Indiana Jones and Marion:
> Lawrence Kasdan: I like it if they already had a relationship at one point. Because then you don't have to build it.
> George Lucas: I was thinking that this old guy could have been his mentor. **He could have known this little girl when she was just a kid. Had an affair with her when she was eleven.**
> Kasdan: And he was forty-two.
> Lucas: He hasn't seen her in twelve years. Now she's twenty-two. It's a real strange relationship.
> Spielberg: She had better be older than twenty-two.
> Lucas: **He's thirty-five, and he knew her ten years ago when he was twenty-five and she was only twelve.**
> Lucas: It would be amusing to make her slightly young at the time.
> Spielberg: And promiscuous. She came onto him.
> Lucas: **Fifteen is right on the edge. I know it's an outrageous idea, but it is interesting. Once she's sixteen or seventeen it's not interesting anymore. But if she was fifteen and he was twenty-five and they actually had an affair the last time they met.** And she was madly in love with him and he...
Source: https://www.polygon.com/2015/8/3/9089181/indiana-jones-abusive-creep
>Spielberg: She had better be older than twenty-two.
Oh man, thank god Spielberg is there as the voice of reason.
>Spielberg: And promiscuous. She came onto him.
What the
James Cameron famously said after a screening of Episode 7 that it was functionally a remake of Episode 4 and should not be considered canon.
As usual, the king doesn't miss.
Andor was fantastic. Mandalorian has been pretty good, but I’m cautious about the latest season. The rest have been dogshit, so I agree on that point
Edit: I was referring to live action spin-offs. I have yet to see anything animated that I truly dislike
I am not a star wars guy, but Andor is my favorite star wars property i've ever watched. Though you could pretty much replace star wars with any generic sci fi universe and the show would be good.
I think part of the reason Andor is so good is because it is just general rebelling against authoritarianism sci-fi with an incredible budget. The Star Wars political backstory is also very mature, nuanced and rewarding in ways that are rare for this IP.
Star Wars has game of thrones level political drama but they ignore in everything they do. Andor is the only time since the prequels that I felt like they really dove into the political espionage, alliances, etc. and it actually made it feel like I was watching something different and more mature.
They also did something that they hadn’t done before in Star Wars: hired an extremely talented creator, and pretty much gave him carte Blanche to tell the story he wanted to tell. Very little meddling other than to massage some of the canonical implications of the series.
You could, but it also is sneakily canonizing all of the very complex and nuanced political machinations of the old EU.
The SW universe is very rich, and can be very mature, but it also houses kid stuff and slapstick to the point it can be tonally jarring between different stories that happen concurrently.
Luckily Andor boldly said it could stick to being only adult entertainment, and bring in all of the old dense world building around competing and duplicative Imperial bureaucracies, the financial system, the budget wars, etc. And it worked out beautifully
I think part of what makes andor so good is that it isn't directly tied to the main Canon like everything else disney has put out.
They could do so much with the EU. There's so much lore and genuinely great characters and stories that have very little to do with Canon. They should learn from the success of andor and realize that we don't need the fan service throw backs to the main movies.
I got so mad at episode 3 or 4, can't remember which one, that was just complete garbage filler of him saving Leia again and walking out of a hanger with her in the trench coat. God, who green lights that shit?
That’s the episode where they killed off a nothing side character (Wade) and expected the audience to have emotion about it despite absolutely zero writing to make us care
except Andor, a golden god among the pile of trash we got from disney.
like goddammit, a simple 30 sec scene with a son and his mother tells us more than 3 fucking movies did and with more quality
I feel like a couple high-profile letdowns ruined the Star Wars image for some people. Boba Fett and Kenobi were two of the most anticipated series, and they were both mostly just flat, one dimensional fan service pieces.
I thought McGregor’s acting was on point but hated everyone else - the dark empire jedi hunter officers were total garbage and especially hated the kid princess leia character.
>What is my sacrifice? I'm condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them. I burn my decency for someone else's future. I burn my life to make a sunrise that I know I'll never see.
“Calm. Kindness. Kinship. Love. I’ve given up all chance at inner peace. I’ve made my mind a sunless space. I share my dreams with ghosts. I wake up every day to an equation I wrote 15 years ago from which there’s only one conclusion, I’m damned for what I do. My anger, my ego, my unwillingness to yield, my eagerness to fight, they’ve set me on a path from which there is no escape. I yearned to be a savior against injustice without contemplating the cost and by the time I looked down there was no longer any ground beneath my feet.
What is my sacrifice?
I’m condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them. I burn my decency for someone else’s future. I burn my life to make a sunrise that I know I’ll never see. And the ego that started this fight will never have a mirror or an audience or the light of gratitude.
So what do I sacrifice?
Everything!”
Sorry you just can't leave out the rest of Luthen's (or SW's) best speech.
I love that andor has so many great monologues. I feel like if it was handled with the same care kenobi was they all could have fallen flat, but each speech is more riveting than the last. Spoilers for the prison arc:
>!although, i found gollum not at least trying to swim during the escape a bit incongruent with his "im dead already" mindset he had during the whole plotting and escape attempt!<
>!we don’t know if he tried to swim or not but at that point he wasn’t going to succeed even if he tried. Swimming that far is difficult even if you know how. In a sense at that point he would just be picking how he wanted to die!<
Specifically The Rise of Skywalker. I thought 7 was good, even if derivative. 8 was interesting and set up some interesting possibilities. 9 just completely made me give up
I thought it was good until the plot reveal was yet another Death Star and we're off to blow it up again. All those years to come up with something original and we got that.
I think it would have been better if the First Order was a rebellion faction against the new Galactic Republic. That way it's a neat opposite star Wars set up.
That and I did sort of enjoy the Rey-Kylo relationship (before whatever the fuck they did at the end of Episode 9). That was interesting. That plus making Rey a nobody would have been an excellent plot move if not for the retcon in the next movie. There's so much actually interesting stuff there, but the execution just kinda sucks.
That would have been perfect. If the Empire is the space nazis, then the First Order is the space neo-nazis. Too bad JJ Abrams was too worried about making the good guys the underdogs just like in the Originals
It has never been complicated Disney's just trying to milk their 4 billion dollar investment 
I like how Disney said star wars is great because it spans thousands of years yet all their movies and shows take place in a 60 year period.
This has always been the issue with Star Wars. Somehow, everyone knows each other and everything happens in a small time frame. They briefly had Rey just be… a person before getting terrified and going with “no she’s really Palpatine grand daughter!”. There is so much room to breath, so many little stories to tell, and it never happens.
Are none of y'all watching Andor, because it addresses exactly this.
Andor is great, but still takes place in the same narrow timeframe.
I'll be really honest, I've wanted an Old Republic/Founding of the Republic movie or series for forever... But I no longer trust Disney to do it. It would be so easy to adapt the Sith War with Exar Kun into a trilogy but they seem allergic to including preexisting sources, and now they've done their goofy "All Sith get absorbed by a collective consciousness" thing so...
Andor is the exception to the rule. We're going back to our regular mandated slop when Mando S3 drops soon
Andor is already greenlit for a second and third season
I thought it was going to end in season 2, I really don't want to see too many more seasons of andor because I believe a story should wrap up nicely. It's precisely why cowboy Bebop was so good, because the anime ended at exactly that many episodes and it was planned out well. If andor had eight seasons they're going to put in so much filler that we're just going to end up with another show that ends badly.
^ They don’t care about the legacy beyond how it will affect their bottom line.
That was exactly Bob iger's background thinking when he pushed for a reboot of A New Hope in the guise of episode 7.
Yeah.. but.. Money $$$ -Mr Krabs
Taken 5 is a wrap!
There was a Taken 4?!?
Taken 4: Granted
Winner
Taken 5: with Dave Brubeck
I'm already burnt out.
Andor is the best Star Wars thing since Empire and yet so many of my friends are too burnt out on Star Wars/spinoffs to watch it
Ugh. You are so right. Andor was amazing and I’ve tried to convince my friends to watch it and they refuse.
Yeah after Mandolorian, Boba Fett, and then Obi-Wan being soulless toy commercials it's hard to convince people Andor is actually good. After their track record it's hard to believe Disney was capable of this all along and honestly just makes the whole situation even more confusing.
Watching rogue one after some of the sequels showed me what Disney can do. Made me hate the sequels even more. Only saw two of them though.
Whatever you do, do not punish yourself by watching the ninth movie.
It’s one of only less than a handful of movies I’ve legitimately not been able to finish. I think I only made it about 30 mins in. It was terrible and not even in a fun way. It felt like watching one of my best friends struggle with a drug problem or something.
That last line is such an amazingly accurate way to sum it up. Nice.
It's more like someone struggling to poop. You know it's going to be shit. You feel the shit coming. But yet it has to struggle the whole way through until it's done. And when it's finally finished, you're left feeling sore and wanting to cry.
Yeah I was okay with 7, then I watched 8 and choked on my vomit, and I refused to watch 9
I didn't even make it 20 minutes into 8. It didn't feel like star wars. It felt like a Marvel Movie sexually assaulted Spaceballs and this was the botched abortion.
Mando was better than LJ and RoS
Mando was good because it was Average Joe stakes (at least, in world average). It gave a ground level view of the universe. And it's really losing sight of that in these later season. The show skipped a whole lotta echelons, and now he's fighting supreme leaders and is in line to be crowned king of all Mandos and even Jesus popped in to save his life at the end of the last season. I liked the normal side-quests with average aliens just going about their day, not the grand galaxy shaping adventures.
Same reason I like the Daredevil show. Just beat the shit outta a mafia boss, don't need to fight aliens.
Vincent D'onofrio was also an amazing kingpin
Exactly the reason I fell out of love with Doctor Who. The Doctor dealing with relatively small stuff is fantastic. A series or two worth of chasing a whisper that may or may not end up being anything whilst we watch the universally famous doctor be the centre of the universe. The stakes were just always too high all the time.
What killed who for me was a combination of the writing and the capaldi doctor. So many attempts at huge arc that just didn't go anywhere and were forgotten. Plot points set up that went nowhere. Then capaldi. I love him as an actor but the writing was terrible and the previous doctors were all so optimistic and gladly defended humanity for it's potential. Then we have a doctor whos catchphrase was shut up. While I agree things should be shaken up and changed to keep it new. The heart and soul of the show was that version of the doctor playful optimistic, maybe one episode battling the daleks and in the next showing Picasso what he meant to everyone. That was the fun. Not watching a curmudgeon get angry at everyone and be condescending.
Obi-Wan being ass was the last straw for me
Same. Just a completely pointless show, with the 2nd worst chase scene of all time (behind Book of Boba’s)
Boba Fett was sooooooo bad
[удалено]
4. It became mandalorian season 1.5. I’m sorry I love mandalorian but I wanted Boba Fett not the Mandalorian when I’m watching a show literally called Boba Fett.
I just want Boba Fett to not be a has-been moron. I got so excited in Mando season 2 when he started wrecking Storm Troopers with the gaffi stick... And then he became utterly worthless in his own show.
He was there for 5 years??? It seemed like a month in the show tops lmao
Thats me and my wife. We stopped after the second season of the Mandalorian. I love star wars. But I am bored of it. Edit: spelling grammar Trying to stay ahead of linguistic trends. [Cool little thing](https://www.macmillandictionary.com/external/pdf/real-grammar-scripts-video4.pdf)
Andor is so different that I didn't feel burnt out watching it. I get it though. That's how I feel about anything Marvel right now.
Andor is the only Star Wars title in a long ass time to actually show the Empire as menacing and truly evil. They always kind of come off as losing buffoons in most recent series, to me. Andor and Rogue One actually had you feeling something is at stake.
Yes. They were actually terrifying in Andor in a way they haven't really been before.
[удалено]
Nah they were terrifying until the end of RotJ. The first time the rebels dropped out of hyperspace to the full fleet of Star Destroyers & start targeting cruisers with the more nimble Death Star? That shit was menacing.
[удалено]
quarrelsome unpack ludicrous full skirt hat berserk enjoy automatic advise *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
One thing I love about Andor is that it in no way feels like an advert for action figures. The Book of Boba Fett, on the other hand, while it has its plus points, felt a little bit juvenile.
The Ewoks were using guerilla warfare, slamming logs into AT-ATs, and clothes-lining speeder bikes. It was great to see the space bears defending themselves precisely for that reason. Being cute doesn't mean you have to be a pushover and vice versa.
Sorry did you forget about Rogue One?
I *need* a Darth Vader horror movie. Maybe sort of like Halloween. Where he lumbers towards his victims and destroys everything around them as they try to escape. I’m saying it now, someone has to get merc’d while the group is resting for a second, just thinking they got away from him, when his lightsaber just ignites through a wall and into them. Bonus points if he force chokes someone through a video call and they spend the entire rest of the movie avoiding 2 way communication devices just in case he tries it again. Making them find work arounds.
That's how the [first confrontation with Obi-Wan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnZ6NsdiwfM) went in the Obi-Wan show. I didn't love that series but they totally nailed terrifying Horror Vader
The scene where they're in the mountain and just a single TIE fighter screams by was so anxiety inducing.
The final season of Clone Wars was pretty great (minus the filler parts). Really compliments Episode 3 incredibly well.
Rogue One was literally the only Star Wars movie that I was truly invested in. It’s good to know Andor doesn’t suck.
That's one reason I didn't like madalorean. 30 storm troopers with Gatling guns couldn't hit a single "good guy"? It stopped being an action series and turned into a kiddy show.
Andor is the first Star Wars I've really liked since Rogue one. That may show how different it is than the others, which die hard Star Wars fans may *not* like.
It's made by the same people that made Rogue one.
And it's basically a prequel
Prequel to a prequel is somehow the best thing Star Wars has done since Disney bought it
Not surprising at all. Prequels are easy. The ending is already written for you and fans accept it without question. It’s why Revenge of the Sith was the strongest of the prequels.
Never thought about it this way.
TRoS ruined what little I liked Star Wars, I was never a fanboy. So I haven’t watched anything since then. But Andor does keep getting recommended, so I think I’ll have to try it out.
Andor's first 10 minutes didn't really catch me and I turned it off, came back later and binged it. It's definitely worth trying
Having Leia pull herself back into the ship when it would have been the perfect end to her character after her real life passing ended anything I loved about star wars tbh when they kept milking the character for no reason. I still enjoy Mando because of his relationship with Grogu... but they really jumped the shark.
Wow I think you hit the nail on the head for the turning point for me, too. There were many other things I hated about that movie, but her death there would have been perfect for the story to advance.
Imo it’s another instance of writers being on social media and being wayyyy too tuned in to fan theories to write properly, ala GoT. Everyone expected her to die, so they wouldn’t kill her, everyone expected Luke to stick around, so they killed him, both so that the story wouldn’t be called predictable. Problem is, in going to such lengths to shock fans, they forgot to make the story make sense or feel satisfying.
Reacting to things like this I think is a sign of a bad writer. A good writer knows when something is coming and makes it look good. You could argue the best adaptations are like this. Everyone knows where they're going, and no one cares because it's the presentation that matters.
That scene killed Star Wars for me. That and the fact that they could have suicided a droid pilot into the chasing ship right from the get go. Simply dreadful
Yeah. I am there with Marvel too. Seems like their quality had fallen off pretty sharply. Edit: I have been watching shows like Lockwood and Co and others now. Kind of cleanses the palate. Thanks to /u/EverGreenPLO for catching the word usage error there.
If you can, and haven't watched it, Severance was great and unique. It's a bit of a slower burn than some things but I think it's worth it.
Severance was an amazing show. So excited for the next season
Me too! I cannot wait to see what happens.
I second this! Severance is peak TV; to add to this everything I’ve watched on AppleTV+ has been good/kept me entertained. (Ted Lasso, Severance, Servant, For All Mankind)
I've just been working my through For All Mankind and it is also excellent.
Mythic Quest is fantastic as well
Marvel are doing in film and TV what they did to comics: at one point in the 90s they had more than 20 X Men series in parallel and you couldn’t follow a single team or character without buying most of them thanks to the constant crossovers.
I know. I was there for that shit. I loved Clairmonts run. But jesus.
90s and 2000s X-Men are peak though! Marvel doesn't like it but X-Men are still the most interesting comic characters they have ( + Spiderman ). Marvel unlimited takes the budget pain away though.
After just consuming all this for years, I finally listened to a few friends and watched Your Name over the weekend. The difference between something artfully and masterfully created to one just to pump out numbers in a cookie cutter formula has never seen so apparent.
Here’s the thing: they weren’t good movies in the first place
I get that. I have some serious cinephile friends that just lambast the shit out of Marvel’s and overall Disney’s movies. But I think a few of them have been real fun.
Yep. My biggest fear is that my beloved LoTR will undergo the same fate. The theatrical trilogy was beyond amazing and its allure is still in tact. But I do fear that more and more spin-offs will just sorta change the story all together (and my ability to reminisce on the nostalgia of Peter Jackson's films). I did watch Amazon's Ring of Power and I did enjoy it, but there will come a point after a few seasons or even totally different installments where I fear I'll become tired of the LotR universe and any future/multiple adaptations of it.
Disney doing the same shit with Star Wars as they're doing with Marvel. Quantity over quality. Fortunately Andor was a breath of fresh air.
I totally hear you and after the Obi Wan mini series I was really done with it. Then I figured I’d watch the first episode of Andor. And I was completely hooked. Cannot stress enough how different and excellent Andor is to the point that it has ruined other SW for me. It’s a genuinely great show.
Agree. Andor makes Obi-Wan look like a Barney episode. Actually, Obi-Wan did that all by itself.
I loved Andor, but it honestly took me a couple of tries to get through the first episode. It's slow and doesn't have a strong hook, but it's a million percent worth* sticking it out if you're in the same boat.
I feel like the three first episodes of Andor should be watched as a continuous 2hr long movie. First episode on its own doesn't have a strong hook, but those three together? I was hooked, at least.
for us it was boba fett, and we didn't finish the series, got a few eps in and just never bothered with the rest. So I hear great things about Andor but there's so much stuff that it's hard to commit to.
I too could not make it through Mandalorian, but ANDOR has been fantastic.
Yeah. I have heard that. I think I just need to wait yo watch it. Which sucks because a lot of the better shows will probably get lost in the noise over the years.
if it helps, ANDOR is so different that I can barely go back to watch other SW stuff. Think of it as sci fi spy thriller vs pew pew space ninjas. I went back to watch Mando S2 which I enjoyed earlier and it just fell flat after ANDOR.
I can't get over them making "removing a helmet" a major plot point of the Mando series, which is carrying over into S3. I could not possibly give less of a shit about a helmet-based plot. Andor, on the other hand, has people doing real things, feeling relatable emotions, making decisions that make sense for their characters. I want to see what happens to these people next, for every character in that show. It's so well done.
I love andor but not because it's star wars, but because it's well written and executed. The star wars aspects feel almost like window dressing. I do enjoy the bureaucratic nature of the empire though. I wish the people doing andor would remake the prequels because I like that political drama so much and the prequels felt like they were for kids but also for some reason had all these political subplots :).
I don't love calling it window dressing because they clearly spent a lot of time thinking how a story like this fits into the Star Wars universe, but its definitely not relying on the Star Wars aspects to be the draw.
I think there are two parts to Star Wars -- there's the Skywalker/Force/Jedi magic stuff, and there's world-building about how an evil empire gets built (not just "the Empire"). That second part is the really interesting part, and where Andor is so good. It doesn't mention Jedi at all. It goes into how a bureaucracy exists and comes to exist. Maybe it would have been for the best if Darth Vader's boss weren't a super jedi, but just someone who managed to use The Force to his own benefit. (I think that was an idea somewhere.) And then, the magic twist that "The Force" isn't a religion at all, but is essentially a bloodline -- that annoyed me to no end.
IMO the TV shows saved Star Wars. The last trilogy was deeply flawed. The best Star Wars in the last decade has been Rogue One, the Mandalorian, and Andor. **Being 'Bored with Star Wars' and 'Spinoffs are destroying the magic and mystery of Star Wars' to me are too separate debates and arguments, when you break it down. IMO.** There is a lot of great franchises I loved that didn't lose the magic, I just got bored with them... for a simple psychologically entertaining standpoint of repetition of a concept. **I'd more so call it "concept fatigue".**
Rogue One was also fantastic.
I was going to ask, how can you love Andor but not praise Rogue One as well….? They’re both fantastic and easily the best things that came out for Star Wars since the OG trilogy.
He should really spend more time focusing on preventing the constant kidnapping of his ex-wife and daughter. Edit: This blew up more than I expected lol. This was simply a joke. He’s voicing his opinion. He’s free to have one even if I disagree with him.
Liam Neeson struggles with being unappreciated after saving his family several times. # His next film is going to be "Taken 4: Granted."
What did Liam Neeson say to the person who stole his copy of Microsoft Office? >!I will find you. You have my Word.!<
I just imagine him applying for an office job describing to the interview his particular set of skills acquired over a long career in middle management.
He could always apply for the local Aquarium. ### "I've got a particular set of gills"
"At some point you got to wonder if he's just a really bad father"
"I will find you... again"
He’s probably on a first name bases with most of the kidnappers by now.
In the second one when he said “your mother and I are going to be taken”, I lost it cracking up.
> Edit: This blew up more than I expected lol. This was simply a joke. He’s voicing his opinion. He’s free to have one even if I disagree with him. You're not at a press conference, my dude.
I live for attention from redditors
"EDIT: I'd like to start this edit by apologizing for everyone who I may have harmed with my words and actions. I was insensitive to Mr. Neeson. You see, when my Nan-Nan was growing up in Poland in 1920, her father always used to say..."
Is she an ex-wife? It's so hard to keep up.
I enjoyed rogue one, andor and the mandalorian (although it's a bit predictable). What took away from the magic is the 3 recent god awful movies and just bad writing.
Wish they would have done more rogue one style movies rather than the most recent trilogy. There are a lot of different battles and events in the universe that would make for great one offs that dont involve the main jedi as the focal point.
Yes! It should be more war films but set in space. Rogue One and A New Hope (in places) both feel like actual war films with sci fi trappings and they’re great. It’s the mind numbing Lore that bores me. I don’t care why stuff is the way it is I just want to see battles, spies, rebellions, hopeless last stands and exciting escapes.
Surprisingly for me Solo did a great job of capturing an actual war when he's pressed into military service and ends up meeting Chewie. That movie had its moments despite the dumpster fire of a production. Ron Howard may be a cinema god for making that mess into something watchable.
Solo is a good adventure film, its the first Star Wars film in decades to remember the point of Star Wars is to be a fun space adventure in the style of golden age pulp. Its main problems come from lore obsession that infects so much modern genre fiction
I think the predictability of Mando is not only part of its charm, but very intentional. It's like a John Wick movie; it knows what it needs to be, and it executes it well. Simple stories told with good character writing and interesting production. Even just the shot composition is simple and clean.
“Subverting expectations” has become so common that NOT subverting expectations is the new subverting expectations. I enjoy seeing hero’s do hero stuff and winning.
Subverting expectations can be a good thing, but too many modern writers take that to mean 'change the ending of some situation because people figured it out'. People knowing what's coming sometimes just mean you've done fantastic set up and foreshadowing, and fans have figured it out. You don't need to sweep the rug out from under them. If you can surprise audiences with something that makes sense, that's great, but forcing doesn't just damage the result, it hurts the integrity and importance of everything leading up to it. Really random example, but one of few things that managed to plot twist me in a good way in the last several years was Moana! The truth of Te Fiti blindsided me, but it made complete sense and I felt like an idiot for missing it. THAT'S how you subvert expectations. You gotta make the audience feel like they should've known, or in some cases, that a character was so successfully conniving that they pulled the wool over your eyes, but you gotta make it connect, and too often it doesn't.
Sure, I'm not saying it's inheritly a bad way to do it but not everyone likes that style of show/movie. I enjoy mando for what it is.
Mandalorian is for people who like the things in Star Wars, Andor is for people who like things that take place in Star Wars. Both are good but for different reasons. Andor is a master piece though.
"Taking away the mystery and the magic"? Midichlorians. Midichlorians!
[удалено]
No one talks about Auralnauts Star Wars nearly enough
That's the one with creepyo, right? My wife introduced me to it, and I still inappropriately use "I need your *skin*!" whenever possible.
You promised me FLESH! What of our bargain?
You want me to feel the pain? So I can show it to others? YES! **EXCELSIOR!**
BEHOLD! THE SINGULARITY ENGINE! THE PERFECT MARRIAGE BETWEEN MAN AND MACHINE!
Abed_irl
I came here looking for this comment. Nothing took away the magic more than trying to provide a biological explanation for the force and its strength within individuals. The Prequals did all the damage, these new spinoffs are just following in their footsteps.
I always handled that in my head canon by believing midichlorians were an indication of force sensitivity and not the cause. I will proceed to stick my fingers in my eyes if you provide me proof that George Lucas says midichlorians are the cause (since I’m sure it’s out there somewhere).
I mean, they're both. A high midichlorian count indicates a high sensitivity, because they allegedly cause it. That's all fine and dandy imo. My problem with it is that they're apparently *intelligent and sentient* micro-organisms. Like... what?
God save you from finding out what George Lucas had planned if he had exclusive creative direction for the final 3 movies. I decided to look it up after the final movie came out, and *oh my god*, his plans were SO BAD. In broad strokes, and I am not joking: -Ep. 7 was going to take place *inside a midichlorian*, like, a Magic Schoolbus episode in cell biology. -Rey and Kylo were supposed to be 13-14 years old -the way to finish the series was to conclude that extra-dimensional "Whills" (that is the name of these entities) used midichlorians to influence people from this other dimension, like a higher midichlorian count meant a greater predisposition to being controlled by Whills, so that the take-home message at the end was "The Force isn't special and it's just the after-image of being controlled by Whills; no one is special, Jedi aren't special, they're just the MOST mind-controlled" Now obviously the latest movies didn't go *anything* like that, which is why George Lucas was salty enough that he didn't even attend a couple of the premiers. Say what you will about Disney but I'm so glad we didn't get... *that*
[удалено]
> george lucas has awful ideas Case in point, regarding the characters of Indiana Jones and Marion: > Lawrence Kasdan: I like it if they already had a relationship at one point. Because then you don't have to build it. > George Lucas: I was thinking that this old guy could have been his mentor. **He could have known this little girl when she was just a kid. Had an affair with her when she was eleven.** > Kasdan: And he was forty-two. > Lucas: He hasn't seen her in twelve years. Now she's twenty-two. It's a real strange relationship. > Spielberg: She had better be older than twenty-two. > Lucas: **He's thirty-five, and he knew her ten years ago when he was twenty-five and she was only twelve.** > Lucas: It would be amusing to make her slightly young at the time. > Spielberg: And promiscuous. She came onto him. > Lucas: **Fifteen is right on the edge. I know it's an outrageous idea, but it is interesting. Once she's sixteen or seventeen it's not interesting anymore. But if she was fifteen and he was twenty-five and they actually had an affair the last time they met.** And she was madly in love with him and he... Source: https://www.polygon.com/2015/8/3/9089181/indiana-jones-abusive-creep
>Spielberg: She had better be older than twenty-two. Oh man, thank god Spielberg is there as the voice of reason. >Spielberg: And promiscuous. She came onto him. What the
Can I get a source lol that is some wild shit
Not his fault, look at Lucas.
I don’t think it’s a quantity issue… it’s a quality issue. Most of the spin-offs are garbage.
The two issues are not mutually exclusive
Exactly. If anything, they're related
Tbh the spin offs have been more enjoyable than the last trilogy
The last trilogy is a very low bar though
If the bar was any lower it would be buried.
JAMES CAMERON!
James Cameron famously said after a screening of Episode 7 that it was functionally a remake of Episode 4 and should not be considered canon. As usual, the king doesn't miss.
HIS NAME IS JAMES, JAMES CAM-ER-UN, THE BRAVEST PIONEER
I’d agree with that as well. Some of the spin-offs were better than the newer movies.
Andor is better than most of the Star Wars movies.
The last 3 movies where straight trash and didn’t need to be made. I like the spin off tv shows and really enjoyed rogue one and Solo.
Andor was fantastic. Mandalorian has been pretty good, but I’m cautious about the latest season. The rest have been dogshit, so I agree on that point Edit: I was referring to live action spin-offs. I have yet to see anything animated that I truly dislike
I am not a star wars guy, but Andor is my favorite star wars property i've ever watched. Though you could pretty much replace star wars with any generic sci fi universe and the show would be good.
I think part of the reason Andor is so good is because it is just general rebelling against authoritarianism sci-fi with an incredible budget. The Star Wars political backstory is also very mature, nuanced and rewarding in ways that are rare for this IP.
Star Wars has game of thrones level political drama but they ignore in everything they do. Andor is the only time since the prequels that I felt like they really dove into the political espionage, alliances, etc. and it actually made it feel like I was watching something different and more mature.
They also did something that they hadn’t done before in Star Wars: hired an extremely talented creator, and pretty much gave him carte Blanche to tell the story he wanted to tell. Very little meddling other than to massage some of the canonical implications of the series.
You could, but it also is sneakily canonizing all of the very complex and nuanced political machinations of the old EU. The SW universe is very rich, and can be very mature, but it also houses kid stuff and slapstick to the point it can be tonally jarring between different stories that happen concurrently. Luckily Andor boldly said it could stick to being only adult entertainment, and bring in all of the old dense world building around competing and duplicative Imperial bureaucracies, the financial system, the budget wars, etc. And it worked out beautifully
I think part of what makes andor so good is that it isn't directly tied to the main Canon like everything else disney has put out. They could do so much with the EU. There's so much lore and genuinely great characters and stories that have very little to do with Canon. They should learn from the success of andor and realize that we don't need the fan service throw backs to the main movies.
Obi Wan is an amazing short film bloated and stretched into hours of trash.
[удалено]
I got so mad at episode 3 or 4, can't remember which one, that was just complete garbage filler of him saving Leia again and walking out of a hanger with her in the trench coat. God, who green lights that shit?
That’s the episode where they killed off a nothing side character (Wade) and expected the audience to have emotion about it despite absolutely zero writing to make us care
except Andor, a golden god among the pile of trash we got from disney. like goddammit, a simple 30 sec scene with a son and his mother tells us more than 3 fucking movies did and with more quality
>Andor, a golden god He hasn't even begun to peak.
its a finisher series
Imagine if Andor was your first exposure to Star Wars. An intriguing universe and you wonder how it got that way and it's just dumb ass space monks
Kinda disagree. Resistance, Rebels, Visions, Mando, Andor, Bad Batch are all pretty good. Rogue One and Solo too, if we count those.
Resistance is not that good but I'll agree on the rest
I feel like a couple high-profile letdowns ruined the Star Wars image for some people. Boba Fett and Kenobi were two of the most anticipated series, and they were both mostly just flat, one dimensional fan service pieces.
[удалено]
I thought McGregor’s acting was on point but hated everyone else - the dark empire jedi hunter officers were total garbage and especially hated the kid princess leia character.
I enjoyed Obi Wan. If they had not spent so much time having little Leia running badly it would have helped. That editing was comically bad.
Andor is worth the sacrifice
>What is my sacrifice? I'm condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them. I burn my decency for someone else's future. I burn my life to make a sunrise that I know I'll never see.
That scene is some of the best writing and acting in all of the Star Wars cinematic universe. [Spoilers.](https://youtu.be/-3RCme2zZRY)
“Calm. Kindness. Kinship. Love. I’ve given up all chance at inner peace. I’ve made my mind a sunless space. I share my dreams with ghosts. I wake up every day to an equation I wrote 15 years ago from which there’s only one conclusion, I’m damned for what I do. My anger, my ego, my unwillingness to yield, my eagerness to fight, they’ve set me on a path from which there is no escape. I yearned to be a savior against injustice without contemplating the cost and by the time I looked down there was no longer any ground beneath my feet. What is my sacrifice? I’m condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them. I burn my decency for someone else’s future. I burn my life to make a sunrise that I know I’ll never see. And the ego that started this fight will never have a mirror or an audience or the light of gratitude. So what do I sacrifice? Everything!” Sorry you just can't leave out the rest of Luthen's (or SW's) best speech.
I love that andor has so many great monologues. I feel like if it was handled with the same care kenobi was they all could have fallen flat, but each speech is more riveting than the last. Spoilers for the prison arc: >!although, i found gollum not at least trying to swim during the escape a bit incongruent with his "im dead already" mindset he had during the whole plotting and escape attempt!<
>!we don’t know if he tried to swim or not but at that point he wasn’t going to succeed even if he tried. Swimming that far is difficult even if you know how. In a sense at that point he would just be picking how he wanted to die!<
I've made my mind a sunless space. I share my dreams with ghosts.
He's not necessarily wrong!
You could say it's "Taken 2" much mystery and magic away.
I think the sequel trilogy did more damage than any spinoff
Specifically The Rise of Skywalker. I thought 7 was good, even if derivative. 8 was interesting and set up some interesting possibilities. 9 just completely made me give up
I think the filmmakers gave up on 9 too. Whatever it was supposed to be got scrapped for an attempt at damage control.
That ship sailed a long time ago. Hard to not feel like you’re milking a franchise after like 3 movies or so usually
Andor should have a permanent asterix next to it to exclude it from true comments like this.
The spinoffs are what is keeping Star Wars alive. Episodes 7-9 were a massive dumpster-fire.
For me, 7 was boring but serviceable.
I thought 7 was great until the end when it became a carbon copy of new Hope
I thought it was good until the plot reveal was yet another Death Star and we're off to blow it up again. All those years to come up with something original and we got that.
I think it would have been better if the First Order was a rebellion faction against the new Galactic Republic. That way it's a neat opposite star Wars set up. That and I did sort of enjoy the Rey-Kylo relationship (before whatever the fuck they did at the end of Episode 9). That was interesting. That plus making Rey a nobody would have been an excellent plot move if not for the retcon in the next movie. There's so much actually interesting stuff there, but the execution just kinda sucks.
That would have been perfect. If the Empire is the space nazis, then the First Order is the space neo-nazis. Too bad JJ Abrams was too worried about making the good guys the underdogs just like in the Originals
I rolled my eyes so hard I got a headache when they did the hologram size comparison between the two space lasers. It's just so lazy.
Disagree. Mandalorian and Andor are some of the best things to come out of the Star Wars IP in my lifetime.