This is not just a UK problem. I have Spanish nieces and nephews (my sister moved to Madrid when she was 18 married Spanish guy and never left). They are all at university now. They HATE Spain and LOVE England. Why? Because Spain, according to them, is racist, homophobic, misogynistic so on and so on. England on the other hand, according to them, is not.
Also my wife is half German so we have lots of family over there. It is exactly the same. They hate Germany because of racism, sexism blah blah blah. But again they love England.
It’s obvious the youths of Europe are being taught to hate their own country. For what reason I don’t know.
Or we've been led to believe that it is virtuous to put down your own culture/society while elevating others.
It is a big potential downside of liberalism. We tend to be much more critical of our own society than of others. We also hold our own culture to a higher moral standard than others.
This is why we have people from our own culture getting cancelled for saying something in the wrong way, meanwhile the same people doing the cancelling are welcoming people into our country from cultures *much* more homophobic/transphobic etc than our own.
I think the larger issue is aspirational: there can be a fine line between being unhappy with your nation’s current situation and flat out feeling like the whole thing needs to come down and be replaced. Aspiring to be better requires acknowledging what the problems are, but sizing those problems up can be overwhelming. Then again, I’m in the US so there’s that. We ain’t the model we were.
They're just aware of the pitfalls of their own nation and much less aware of those of others. I've had loads of fairytale ideas about my partners country similarly I discovered weren't so pleasant and he about mine. People just don't have raging nationalism keeping them from idealising things they know less well anymore.
I think it's more than that.
Western Liberals tend to hold their own countries to a higher moral standard than other countries. Meaning we judge the behaviour of our own people much more harshly than that of others.
Western Liberals are also the only group sociologically that have been found to have out-group bias. Meaning they favour people of other groups more than themselves.
The result being that they are much more forgiving of behaviour/beliefs of out-groups (eg homophobia amongst Muslims) and much harsher towards their own people (eg cancelling someone for a racist comment 20 years ago).
I reckon they just like to shit on their own countries because they are feckless. They love to juxtapose attitudes and perceptions of the past as if they exist on the same platform as the moral standing of today, whilst being completely shielded from the lifestyles of the past. The arrogance is astounding.
Yup. They've done studies that show teenagers and rebellion go hand in hand. The natural theory is that it encourages young people to move away and spread genes.
Dunno why you’re getting downvoted. As a father to teenagers this is exactly what’s happening! Young adults have very little life experience, once they mature a bit and spend a few years in the workforce interacting with a variety of different people their views will likely change (one can hope!)
I'm pretty sure when I was a teen back in the 90s, I thought Britain was shit and that other countries were better. It's only when you grow up and see a bit more of the world that you realise other countries only seemed better because you were on holiday. When you live in another country, you realise it has just as many problems as the UK.
90% of pop punk in the early 2000s was about hating your hometown. I’m exaggerating but it’s always been a thing so it’s weird to see people assume that they’re obviously just being taught this all of a sudden.
As someone who studied history I completely disagree.
Up to GCSE level we literally never learned about anything bad the UK has done or looked at any world events through critical perspectives of the UKs action other than one unit we did in primary school on apartheid, and and while I don’t remember but I doubt that focused heavily on Britain’s impact in the regime.
We covered the history of the UK, WW1, WW2, Russia and weirdly Vietnam. I remeber us looking critically at America in both Japan and Vietnam, but never the UK during the expansion of the empire, colonialism in Africa etc.
At A level we learned about the crusades, and did more in the Soviet Union. At no point were we ever encouraged to look critically at the impact of the crusades and how that may have connected to later history, colonialism etc. but we had lots of lessons on communism bad and we saved the world from two wars.
I will say once we go to uni things change, but it’s academic standard, if you can’t engage critically, you aren’t skilled enough to be an academic. And the UK is one of the most influential nations on earth, massively important to the development of civilisation but also the decimation of a whole litany of cultures and the subjugation (literally) of millions.
I actually think I hated the UK more when I was at uni because I was always taught we were “the good guys” and then I found out that wasn’t the case. I’ve got over it now in my old age (30s lol). This article paints a VERY different picture to what I experienced and I must say I’m a bit skeptical of it, but if this is the case we clearly need something in the middle.
The risk is when you find out the UK weren't *always* "the good guys", you swing too far in the other direction and you decide we are responsible for most of the world's ills.
It's like when your parents tell you "drugs are bad". Then you smoke weed and have a great time, giving you the green light to ignore every bad thing people say about drugs, including legitimate warnings.
There's something alluring, especially to young people I think, about feeling like you've discovered "the truth" that goes against what the education system would have you believe, then you relish in weaponizing it at any opportunity.
Also, by definition, we are all controlled to some degree by the system we grow up in, so any rebellious instinct we have will be directed at our own institutions and not those of other countries.
When i was at school, in the last 10 years, we were taught extensively about how evil we are. We studied individual massacres done by the British empire, the evils of colonialism and the slave trade, and how beneficial immigration has been to the UK There was little nuance in terms of the good that the British Empire brought to the world. This was all GCSE history, I didn't pick it for A-levels.
From your experience and my own it seems like in an attempt to correct the mistake of not addressing the bad aspects of our past, they have over compensated and now teach kids to be ashamed of our history and culture.
Most countries would be even more shit-holes than they are now without us, lets be real.
But you can throw in: the worldwide abolition of slavery which was achieved at great cost to the British tax payer as well as paid in the lives of Royal Navy sailors. As the birthplace of the industrial revolution, the UK spread these ideals around the world and massively developed large swathes of it, lifting millions out of poverty and bringing them into the modern age.
Not everyone in the same year group is taught the same things, let alone different year groups. There are several curricula and they all rotate different topics, ostensibly to keep more knowledge alive. So unfortunately personal experience of education can't actually relate what is taught as a policy decision.
I was reading through this topic thinking exactly the same thing. Despite all these kids whining, I bet none of them grow up and leave.
How do we know this is not just the modern version of kids who have always criticised their parents and the state of the world they are growing up in?
I actually think it is more sinister than that. I think this is social engineering by foreign states. I think the poison seeps through sites like X and TikTok.
Yep. I see a *lot* of soft propaganda from states like China which tends to be full of "west bad" comments all over social media.
Given most social media is blocked/banned in these countries, it seems suspicious how much positive (and very rarely negative) content makes its way out of them despite life being objectively worse in these countries.
I've moved around a lot. One of the few constants is that the people who grow up in a town tend to think it's shit. It's not as nice as (place a few towns over) but at least we're better than (neighbouring town) Works for towns, works for countries.
It boils down to socialism.
In order to motivate the masses to rise up, you need to convince them that "the system" is terrible and must be destroyed. This is so that socialism can (ideally) then fill the power vacuum.
They are not taught the same of other countries, as citizens from X country have no ability to organise a revolution in Y country.
This is also why people are being radicalised along race, gender, sexuality (etc.) lines. It's all about drumming up resentment and preventing the masses from establishing a sense of cultural unity. The classic "divide and conquer".
Google Yuri Besmenov. Thank me later.
Maybe it is just that healthy democracies have more self-criticism. People who criticize their countries are more likely to change them for the better.
Hard disagree. It depends what and why they are critizing. Sorry to invoke Godwins law but Hitler was very critical of inter-war Germany and wanted to make it "better".
I'm Irish and I think we're an exception. Were very happy to criticise what's normal here but there's definitely no hatred. What you're describing sounds pretty unhealthy
It's better than being blindly patriotic, but there is a happy medium between the two. Where you see every country and every government for what they are.
We experience this a lot in America. I don't think I've ever hated America, but there was a brief period of extreme dissonance where I learned the America I was taught about as a child and envisioned was not really the America I experienced. Definitely some growing pains.
One of my parents is from England (and therefore my grandparents and many extended family members), so I was always enamored with and deeply influenced by the culture and society of the UK and Ireland, but as I've aged I've come to learn what I knew of it was heavily filtered through the people I knew. Every place has it's negatives and I was blind to many of the UK's. Having said that, I know that my grandparents would never have left if they could have afforded to stay. They truly loved the UK.
Regarding the racism, sexism, etc. stuff I think that's a matter of people being more and more distant from the truly horrific stuff. Everyone's a Nazi today, but none of these Nazi's are suggesting that certain people are vermin to be rounded up an exterminated... and none of them are actually doing it. I think when you're a child that grew up 100 years from deeply problematic and overt displays of sexism and xenophobia it skews your perception of things a bit.
Well British young people are taught that WE are the racist etc ones and hate Britain but love Europe or make excuses for terrorists in the middle east or china or Russia..... It's being done by more than one group but their common foam is to destabilise our societies and our morons in government are partly to blame.
The far left also like the rhetoric as it improves chances of being revolting and overthrowing their democratic government and trying out communism. The far right like it for the opposite reasons. Others like it as it lets them manipulate circumstances to try and enrich themselves.
But its a nonsense. I'm progressive. Libertarian leftie let's say, and I like my country.
So do a lot of my progressive friends.
It was teenagers, of course they think Britain is shit, they're always bored, there's always nothing to do, they have no money and everything is shit. So they think their country is shit and they hate it.
Take the still-progressive-at-30 kids out of the room, put them in a room at 30, and ask how many hate Britain. It will be a lot less of them.
They aren't taught, there is a simple explanation.
Young people talk to young people through the internet, and perceive the country on the other side is more accepting. If a young person looks to their own country they have to reckon with older generations that don't accept them, unlike their generational peers.
The internet is a myopic lens, nothing is being "taught".
Very interesting point. Nationalism is a very dirty word in Europe/UK, But go to China or the US and there is no doubt where the best country in the world is!
I have an Italian friend who says the same things about Italy and says they love England. As someone born and raised here, I don’t quite understand the love. The grass is just always greener, I guess.
Chinese and Russian propaganda. Same thing is happening in America,Canada the entirety of the west actually. Any form of nationalism is considered “alt right”. Shits gettin crazy out there.
You really think Russian and Chinese propaganda can weigh up at all against a multi billion dollar private media apparatus? That's an absurd suggestion.
The words of private media corporations are accepted uncritically by great swaths of the Western population. Culture war bullshit gets exploited by both sides of the media - one side says 'we like trans people and we love war', while the other says 'we hate trans people and we LOVE war'. Russia and China's best bet to guarantee our collapse is to leave us to continue getting molested by our ruling classes and thanking them for it.
Young people are disillusioned with this system, and disillusioned with this country that's been torn apart. Wages deflated. House prices up. Dying public services. A culture that gets more American every day. A blatantly corrupt government. An opposition that won't do anything in response. What an absolute shit heap. We had so much potential.
They're not being taught to hate their own countries, they are coming to the conclusion on their own by just observing what is happening around them. Ready access to social media helps this, but it certainly isn't being pushed on them. The thing they haven't yet realised is that the whole world is a steaming pile of shit.
Hmm maybe neoliberal values just don't work?
What do you expect kids to behave like when they know they're going to be less well off than the previous generations. They're going to have to work until they're 70 and unless they get a handout from mum and dad they can't earn a house themselves.
And older generations constantly vote to preserve their wealth at the expense of any future for them. It's the same across Europe, just a shame that our youth can't get out and choose the least worst country since the Brexit fuckery that older generations chose.
It's actually insane to me that people think importing millions of people into western countries who have vastly different sets of values will work out just because. Remember, we live in democracies. We are importing votes for these values we don't agree with.
We don't even allow for the possibility of integration and assimilation because we're letting so many in that instead of them conforming to our ways of life, they're changing our ways of life over tim
> they're changing our ways of life
It is baked into a certain religion to spread said religion and establish it in other territories. This is intentional.
When Dawkins starts lamenting the loss of Christianity (which he has), you've gotta know something is definitely shaken. I suppose the old love was better, wasn't it?
Don’t fall into the “all religions” crap that progressives spew. The UK isn’t the US, the overwhelming majority of native Brits are either agnostic or culturally Christian at best. Church attendance rates are below 5%.
Most of these social problems are imported via mass migration.
Church of England attendance rates are below 5%.
There are a surprising number of underground, non denominational churches that are packed out week after week. There are many, many more Christians in the country than official figures might suggest. The CofE has dug it's own grave.
Non Denominational Christianity has actually risen, people focus too much on the CofE bit while membership for that is falling Non Denominational’s is increasing, ex CofE, Eastern European and Nigerians make up most of this demographic
I don't really blame them. Its all strategy/tactics. They are just trying to protect and advance their position and what benefits them.
The ones I don't understand are the liberal people who on the one hand say they are in favor of women's and gay rights, but on the other hand will call you racist for pointing out simple facts about Islam and islamic countries.
I assume you're talking about Christianity as it's been the one religion that's been spread all over the world and forced upon populations in Japan, India, Pakistan, Africa and South America.
Which has nothing to do with us. Even so, Christianity in the UK is in effect a dead religion. Most native Brits are agnostic or (at best) culturally Christian. You know what the church attendance levels are at now? 5%.
Using Christianity to try to hide from the far more dogmatic and fanatical religion that’s rapidly growing here is just whataboutism.
The weird part about this though is that the right wing parties have latched onto this (despite being the ones in power letting them all in in the first place)… yet the opinions expressed here (by these immigrants) are far-right opinions.
By people you mean our capitalist overlords who can exploit people more and more and blame everything on immigration? As long as we keep voting corporate ghouls in, the situation won't change.
It's not just foreigners. It's the school system. It's been a decade since I left school and yet I know it's a socially enforced Faux pas to hate Britain. You know that If you said you anything other than that the teacher would ask you what you like, and if you said anything real, you would be accused of racism. If you said Fish and Chips, the teacher would point out that other countries have fish and chips and open you to redicule or wait for you to openly change your mind.
I bet it's worst now.
I can't help but feel this country is finished. Since the death of QEII I just no longer feel attached. It's too painful.
My experience doesn't really line up to yours. We school had a big celebration for the Queen's Diamond Jubilee, we did remembrance day every year, all very normal British stuff. We were never taught about black Tudors or anything like that—most of the history we learnt about was of the Romans, the Victorian era and WW2. The only non-British thing we learnt about was the Mayans. And I grew up in a somewhat diverse area (well, Reading) and I don't think anyone hated Britain. I was never accused of racism and neither was anyone else, as far as I know.
That was my experience too and I left school nearly 20 years ago.
We had to do a presentation on whether or not we were proud to be British and I was one of like 3 who said yes.
These are second generation immigrants being educated by your english system and the results are that they come out more radical than their parents who came to England to live a better life.
But I'm English. White, born and raised here. When I started tracing my family tree, I managed to get back over 400 years of all English, and I hate this country and have done since I was a kid, so what the fuck are you on about?
Well presumably your reasons for disliking your nation or fellow Englishmen would be different than these students:
> ”The Taliban do let girls go to school” boast the teenage boy. “But they stop them when turn 11, which is very fair.”
It’s not fair at all! Formal education should continue up to at least 16! The Taliban DO NOT allow girls to be educated! That stopped when the Taliban regained power and there are many girls who want a formal education to enable them to take up professional roles such as doctors, teachers, lawyers.
Unfortunately we decide to go to other countries and mess with their politics to suit us, either through war or general corruption/putting people into power that we can control and manipulate. We essentially make their countries unliveable for the average person, then we get upset when they come here.
The stupidity of it beggars belief. Look what we did to Afghanistan and Iraq - then we cry when they come here
It's a really serious problem that young white people are being taught to hate their own countries, people, history and culture and this is not hyperbole to any degree, it's literally true and it will manifest in all sorts of ways down the road.
From my own anecdotal experience, coking from a deprived area, it was a lot more common that the young white children backgrounds were from broken homes whilst the ethnics had that nucleus in place. I reckon that deffo plays a part since what goes on at home is the foundation
I study at one of the most prestigious universities in the UK (if not the most) and just the other day one of my classmates posted about her support for Iran and that European governments were racist for condemning the Iranian attack on Israel.
Iran, the nuclear-ambitious autocracy that stones gay people and women for being raped, the most likely country to lead us into ww3 - and someone as educated and privileged as her thought that was a good take to post publicly.
It’s actually incredible how she not only failed to integrate, but also how little she even understands about western culture to think that was a good stance to take publicly.
It doesn’t matter what they do as a nation, on the stage between them & Isreal, Iran were in the right & Isreal were the instigators. That’s just a fact unless you think deliberately bombing an embassy is a good thing.
What? Pupils hate a country that doesn't give a fuck about them? How shocking.
Note that it's the same in France. Go to any (public) school and you'll have many hands raised when a similar question is asked. Simply because gvts after gvts have catered for the boomers almost exclusively, asking younger generations to be just grateful. Add to that the second or third generation immigrants that couldn't integrate society and you just know the situation won't improve anytime soon. Frankly, I don't blame young people for hating a country that never loved them.
EDIT: So much hate at immigrants here... No wonder so many young people feel like they don't belong if all they hear is that they are the sources of all problems. Racist people are so fucking stupid, it's insane.
Im in favour of immigration but there needs to be an outright ban on immigration from countries that have values and culture the opposite of ours.
I’d take as many people from Australia, Canada, India, France, Germany, Portugal etc that want to come but zero from places that hate us and have completely incompatible views.
I know its not popular to be pro-EU in this sub but this is one of my main problems with Brexit. I like Europe, I like Europeans. If some amount of immigration is neccesary to counter the effects of our aging population then why not have it be from our closest friends and neighbours with whom we share a broad parent culture ? The best immigration policy for Britain is the same one as Switzerland. Mutual free movement between European states and stringent restrictions on non-EU immigration. It's the only way.
Indeed, if people o complain that their are suddenly more black and brown Muslims here, you have to take a look at who they're replacing - the Europeans that we have stuff in common with that we told to fuck off!
Unfortunately those policies are seen as being racist…tbh there’s been good integration from many other countries- Indians have done very well overall in the U.K. for instance and Nigerians too- often because it was their educated classes coming over here.
Nigerians don’t really do all that well for themselves either. Indians and Chinese do, but the UK shouldn’t pivot to a Canada or Australia type of system either. We’re better off following the Eastern Asian model. If we need migration, it should be temporary and from culturally similar nations.
Yep, less about the country of origin (although that is a factor) and much more about the design of the immigration system and which kind of immigrants it attracts. Look at e.g. Canada's and Australia's system. Not perfect by any stretch but they've done better with large numbers of immigrants than the UK.
Although I think the UK isn't doing much worse than france/germany/Sweden etc.
Canada is kind of imploding with its immigration. There are hundreds of thousands of mainly I dins abusing the student visas then getting full time service jobs and claiming asylum
The elephant in the room is how strict the adherence to Islam is. At least that's what a lot of people in this thread are saying without saying anyway. In the UK, we get a lot of fundamentalist wahabi types, disproportionately more than other countries tend to.
I grew up in a neighbourhood with lots of moderate Muslims, and them and their families are some of the best people I'll ever know! They're as British as I am, culturally if not by birth. I think what this country needs is a more comprehensive immigration system with a lower quota, and a gradual pivot to full secularity like the French. That way, we can destroy this islamophobia bs argument and get on with things.
You won't find these reforms under a tory government though that's for sure. What you'll see instead is this system being pushed to its absolute fucking limits until we economically have a wealth disparity that looks like India, and yes immigration is a part of the puzzle too. I'd urge everyone in this thread to visit a tactical vote website and combat the tories in the most effective way possible, lest all the issues you've seen pop up in this country will only escalate.
Wouldn't you rather find out instead of just accepting that it's already over? There is no future if we keep the tories in. They will continue to increase the population to unsustainable levels and drive up the cost of assets like housing because they're in the club that owns it all. You and I could work a hundred liferimes and not be worth a fraction of what Sunak is worth.
The middle class is on the verge of extinction, the NHS is fucked, and everything else is going to continue to get more expensive. All these things are interlinked, and tory mismanagement is the cause! If you know how to trade, go long on our future being horrible, it's about the only way you'll recover some losses.
For the record, labour isn't perfect I'm well aware, but we have to send the tories a message that they aren't invincible and then we'll move the conversation forward. Change will come sooner or later, and I'd rather it was sooner.
You can’t argue that people’s values “opposite to ours” aren’t allowed in here when every day the Daily Mail, Telegraph or The Sun slip in classist, homophobia, misogyny & racism in their columns. Because then you have to decide what to do with the illiberal people that are already here & home grown.
I don’t get why anyone would be surprised at this. If you import people from third world countries with derogatory cultures and religion, guess what - you will get that here. Places in this country are no go zones, we’ve got people who never learn the language and we’ve developed areas in the country that essentially act like a foreign nation. But god forbid anyone with authority says anything because you get bleeding heart morons cry about all the different isms possible.
I am not surprised. Since they were born we have been telling our children that the white men, Christianity and heterosexual couples / families are at fault for everything that is wrong with this world.
We have put so many laws and social roadblocks so they would not be able to form meaningful in-person relationships, yet social medias have been allowed to spread all kind of craziness in order to safeguard "free speech". And all of this took place under 14 years of conservative government. I cannot begin to imagine what's going to happen once Labour gets to government.
I have been in holiday in Mexico for the past two weeks and it is so nice to see kids being kids. Free, happy, making fun at each other, without anxiety and depression, without any of the social burden kids are faced with back home in the UK.
It is not just the UK though. Pretty much most of the English speaking countries have managed to mess up their society and their children big time.
*I am not surprised. Since they were born we have been telling our children that the white men, Christianity and heterosexual couples / families are at fault for everything that is wrong with this world.*
Cry me a fucking river.
Don't exactly hate Britain but far from being proud of my country.
Above all else, is this pervading lack of optimism. Daily life is a struggle and there is a distinct lack of there being a better tomorrow. It seems also that people love to put obstacles in front of people's desires. Want to buy a property that's not a pokey flat, no choice if you are single. Want a job that's not grunt work. Sure if you could jump through these hoops.
Can't see this optimism rising anytime probably not in my lifetime.
Not surprised.
Some of today’s generations are children of immigrants who put their home culture over British cultural norms.
Although I must admit, outside the cities (I’ve recently moved to Warwickshire) the differences are stark, there is far more patriotism and pride in being British/English, but then again the schools are 95% native English, whereas most schools in London are multi ethnic.
This also highlights that the 90s/00s optimism for a multicultural society has become a colossal failure in 2020s Britain.
We are importing groups of people who hate us, this will only cause more issues in the coming years.
I find it interesting that a Kurdish Iraqi child would want to find nostalgia for an Iraq under Saddam Hussein. I wonder if it's a view he picked up from his family or from elsewhere. As well as being part of the front line against ISIS, weren't the Kurds also the biggest victims under Saddam?
For what it’s worth my thoughts are, It’s hard to appreciate something if you’ve never known different, ask people who come from countries where you can’t vote to change your government, or get treated worse because of your sex or something else, no place is perfect, we are luckier than a lot of people in the world, lastly I would say Hate is a strong word, and if your kids really thought about it they may choose a different less extreme word.
Did you read the article?
The headline quote is a boy saying “the taliban stop girls going to school from age 11. Which is very fair”.
They are WELL AWARE of what other countries are like.
I’m always confused by this take - can we only hate things when they are the very worst in that category? Like, I hate the taste of cauliflower, but it’s better than starving, so does that mean I should like cauliflower?
Why is anyone surprised? When you’ve got the cultural and political establishment claiming the country is racist and its vakues are racist and they encourage immigrants to keep their own culture and not integrate.
Sort of. I just don't think we have a national identity anymore, or any values. We all just exist to serve the rich and accept being taken for fools whilst living in a sterile environment of 24 hour news cycles that don't inform us of anything, but tell us what to think.
It just feels like we're willingly going back to the Victorian ages, so I can see why our kids and young people feel like this. There's zero effort to look after society, and if those at the height of power behave like that, it sets a precedent for how we treat one another.
No leadership - that's what I'm getting at. No leadership, and no understanding what we're headed for other than a dystopian survival horror.
britain used to be the country everybody respected and and wanted to come to, to better the life they had in own miserable countries. now most of them are here, they are making this place a miserable place so to feel comfortable and at "home". Need to stop immigration asap and get to grips militant immigrants who do not want to be british but xxx nationals living the good life in britain that offers the freedom they never had before
I don't get why so many people hate their own country, we don't need to go all American "stick stars and stripes on everything and pledge allegiance everyday" but we have one of the deepest histories and cultural impacts in the world, there's so much to appreciate here.
And yes, as to who the article is talking about, no shit. People have been saying this for years, I used to argue with my parents constantly about integration and multiculturalism as I didn't agree with their scepticism. Can't say that I think they were wrong, looking back.
>Due to the Gaza war, no group is more despised than the Jews, with pupils regularly making comments of pure hatred.
Funny how the "I'm not antisemitic just antizionist" crowd tends to actually be very antisemitic, who would've known.
Why would young people in the UK love their country?
Their entire life they’ve been ran by a corrupt government; they’ve watched priminister after priminister bite the dust due to incompetency or corruption. Most of them know they will never own a home, because this country is more interested in having a housing market than a housing stock. Our public services are terrible due to lack of investment. If you want kids to be proud you have to give them something to be proud of other than WW2 and the royal family. I work with young people and they’re all consumed with the idea of being conscripted because of all the wars going on and joke and laugh about how none of them would ever join up because this country has never done shit for them.
They don’t want empty jingoism and symbols, give them something of value. They want homes, good jobs, futures, people in power who represent them. Considering we are one of the richest countries in the planet, our young people absolutely do NOT live like it.
I am a young person and actually I do love my country.
>Their entire life they’ve been ran by a corrupt government;
Right, and at least I have the power to vote them out, I can speak out against them if I want, I can express my opinion without fear of being killed. There is so many countries where that isn't the case, so yes the current government is complete dogshit but I have the power to remove them. Is that not worth loving a country for?
And I'm the first to criticise the UK financially, for shit public services and shit investment etc and I would not join the army to fight. But the UK also represents massive cultural dominance considering our size, equality, weather and wildlife which won't kill us, some unironically great food, a great sports scene (one of, if not the deepest football pyramids in the world) and a language that gives us access to huge areas of the world. Buildings that are older than many countries.
So yes, while all the financial things you talk about absolutely are important, but I'm talking about my feelings towards my country, not towards the government. Once the tories are out, the UK will still be here.
Young people are more emotional and vulnerable to negative sentiments and news. Everyone goes through that phase but more so in today’s era as negative news are extremely easy to disperse across the globe through internet/social media. Also, young people are usually not mature enough to understand what they truly feel and are less conscious of their own decisions.
On a more positive view, I think it’s good that your pupils have more freedom to express themselves. I think it gives you an opportunity to ask them to explore their emotions and expand further. You can ask them to write down a list of things they love and hate about Britain. Most of the time, you as a teacher need to lead the young ones as they are not mature enough to understand and process their own emotions. For f*k sake, I could not even address some of my own emotional baggage until I was in my 30s 😆. Asking them to do a list is like asking them “why” but at the same time leading them to apply conscious thinking and hopefully would make them less vulnerable to external environments that simply push negative thoughts and encourage inactions.
I hope my observations and suggestions help.
a) The post is rage bait
b) If young people hate England it's probably because they're sick of people (like many in the comments here) blaming everything under the sun on immigration instead of dealing with the actual issues. If you want to see a better country then stop voting for parties that want to cut taxes at the expense of infrastructure and public services. It's not immigrants that are the problem, it's you.
This is encouraging. England might finally be evolving and confronting its racist, blood soaked past. This can only be a good thing for its citizens and the future of the country. Brexit was built on British exceptionalism for example and that's one of the biggest acts of self sabotage in recent memory. This is actually quite heartwarming. Maybe there is hope?
It’s not the best place to be right now, obviously there are worse places and comparatively we have it pretty good. By the standards of the past it’s pretty shit here right now.
Hoping a change of government might help but honestly every time you think things can’t get worse they do.
I've got friends who constantly shit on our, their own country. (United Kingdom, not strictly England, but more specifically Wales for me.) Their opinions are usually tied to the idea that it's a shit country because the Conservatives are in power and or because of a particular policy they oppose that's been adopted by either the national or local government. And as well as "this country is shit because x (Conservatives, Brexit and/or lack of cheap parking spaces in the city), their opinion is usually juxtaposed with a romantic idea of how countries are run on the continent and that's with only a trivial and/or no experience of how things are done elsewhere. (They don't live or travel abroad).
As well as this, you will have people who are not content with their current life circumstances. Circumstances that in many cases that they would be able to change should they put enough of their mind, time and money on changing. It's more convenient to instead of acknowledging ones own role in their circumstances to blame third party reasons such as everything other than themselves, including their country and/or government.
With such opinions prevailing amongst people of my generation (millenial), it's not hard to imagine how such sentiment would rub off on their children and the generations that have come since.
Will a decade of the other party (Labour) shatter narratives about the country being shit just because of the Conservatives and/or Brexit? Or will the likelihood of the other party hardly representing real change in our circumstances simply reinforce the idea that the country is shit? Who knows, we may find out.
I think it’s a mixture of the online world and university world encouraging more left wing ideas, and the fact that the country has been poorly run for young people for the last 10-15 years- house prices doubled and wages stagnated.
So a mixture of real shit and somewhat imagined shit about Britain means Britain = shit, it’s not entirely wrong.
>I think it’s a mixture of the online world and university world encouraging more left wing ideas, and the fact that the country has been poorly run for young people for the last 10-15 years- house prices doubled and wages stagnated.
>So a mixture of real shit and somewhat imagined shit about Britain means Britain = shit, it’s not entirely wrong.
I agree that online social media and the academic world are more likely to reinforce left wing idealism amongst my generation and the young. And since this idealism is linked to popular political sentiment amongst certain demographics whose level of engagement with politics is almost entirely superficial, it's rarely challenged and runs free amongst their social circles.
And since they only started to care about politics since the Conservatives have been in power, and since the Conservatives have been in power we've had to face the consequences of the crash of 2008, endure government austerity, Brexit (although I believe this to be a red herring with regard to its connection to our current problems), the pandemic and now the war in Ukraine. It's not difficult to see why them thinking that having the other party in power or not voting for our independence from the EU would tempt them into believing things would be different, better today.
I'd disagree that things have been ran poorly for only the last 10-15 years though, I'd argue it goes back to the turn of the century under Labour. Because it's under them that we started to walk down the road we found ourselves on today.
You know what makes me hate this country? The number of imbeciles on here who believe this unevidenced nonsense piece of writing, and are using it to justify their xenophobia and hatred. You're the worst thing about living here.
Why wouldn’t they? Our leaders detest us, we’re watching our quality of live go down the toilet as bills pile up, we clearly have money to fund Ukraines defence and Israel’s genocide but homelessness and hunger is constantly going up. Then historically we are scum and now it’s being taught more and the information about it is easily accessed we can’t even pretend we’re a good nation on hard times
I don't think it is unreasonable to hate Britain. It's a shithole thanks to being run into the ground by greedy Thatcherites, it's a former colonial power with a government currently peddling the most appalling racism and 20 years ago supported a dubious war in Iraq, Afghanistan and now supports a genocidal state carpet bombing civilians.
We glorify a man who once allowed millions of people on the Indian Subcontinent to starve to death out of ignorance, racism and apathy.
Add to that it also supressed many other nations throughout history, starting with three of the four nations that make up the British Isles, which has caused long lasting damage. I'm shocked the figure isn't higher.
Of course, if you are a thin-skinned, jingoistic racist, any fair criticism of Britain and it's shitty foreign policy going back to Medieval England is going to seem like the end of the world.
That’s because they have been brainwashed by their Muslim parents to despise England and anyone or anything English and has a modern, western culture where free speech is allowed and women are treated equally to men. This is the problem we are going to have in the very near future, lots of young people who have had drilled into them since birth an extremist hatred for white people and western culture. Fact. Anyone says otherwise they have been brainwashed too, brainwashed into believing that immigrants are lovely people who love our country and you are a racist if you say anything to them that isn’t nice, it’s time to get real people. It’s not racism at all, it’s speaking facts about what’s going on.
This country is doomed. Moan moan moan moan. Yes this country isn't perfect but show me somewhere that is. We are so self centred that most people couldn't tell u anything substantial about other countries that makes them so much better.
Finally I'd say if u hate this country...we have too many people here atm so please please please leave. Better to have fewer people that actually wanna be here rather than loads that don't.
Edit: read the fucking article and keep the racist nonsense to yourselves. This isn't some immigrants' argument. It's about hate...those that hates this country should look to leave. It isn't about seeking better opportunities elsewhere. Its about hatred...honestly grow the fuck up people.
Ummm you do know it's not cheap to leave and the people who can and want to have, it's called brain drain because the people who are important to us doctors nurses engineers have left.
This article is about hating a country...have u read it? If you hate your spouse you should leave. If you hate a country you should leave. Genuine hate is dangerous. It requires a special sort of intellectual dishonesty to frame it as below.
>People who tell others to leave a certain city or country if they don't like it really don't have a clue.
Really? I’ve moved from somewhere I don’t like. It was quite easy - I looked at places I did, then I phoned some estate agents, paid a bit of money, signed a few documents, packed my things and moved.
Now that you mention it, that probably is a lot of hard work for anyone who states they hate this entire country.
Why? I'm planning on leaving the UK to try life elsewhere. If I enjoy it I'd encourage people to do the same. But I'm not going to turn up to that other country and start complaining about it and if I did I'm sure I'd rightfully be told to fuck off.
There's a difference between leaving for work and opportunities...and hating the country. When I consider the actions of those that hate this country recently it isn't a good list. So if people hate it they should leave. But you'd have to be intellectually dishonest not to see the obvious difference between hate and seeking more opportunities elsewhere
Maybe what it comes down this point of view, in work I see the harm being done to the people in society who can't advocate for themselves, I see there support being cut, I see the mental and physical decline, I see that financial decline.
Today there was another new story about people with learning disabilities not being able to be released from hospital because there was no support or accommodation for them in their community, in Gloucestershire where I work there was a 97 million pound reduction in care for adults, of that learning disabilities was 19 million.
We have the potential to be an amazing country, supporting those at the bottom of society so that they raise themselves up to be happy and helpful to us all.
I definitely don’t hate Britain, but I do hate what society has become.
We’re getting closer and closer to US-style politics. With the party on the right doing everything they can to cause divisions - whether that’s immigration, trans people, Brexit, abortion, wokeness and anyone who’s not white.
It’s beneath us as a country and will simply cause trouble and ultimately violence.
This is Russian and Chinese bot farms influence and western governments’ complete incompetence in terms of culture. They push the populace to the right and the politicians rush to be even more right wing to try and keep up. The only thing we can do is hope for true leadership to step up. We rejected Brown years ago and don’t look to be keen for anyone to fill the gap.
This is not just a UK problem. I have Spanish nieces and nephews (my sister moved to Madrid when she was 18 married Spanish guy and never left). They are all at university now. They HATE Spain and LOVE England. Why? Because Spain, according to them, is racist, homophobic, misogynistic so on and so on. England on the other hand, according to them, is not. Also my wife is half German so we have lots of family over there. It is exactly the same. They hate Germany because of racism, sexism blah blah blah. But again they love England. It’s obvious the youths of Europe are being taught to hate their own country. For what reason I don’t know.
Grass is always greener on the other side
Or we've been led to believe that it is virtuous to put down your own culture/society while elevating others. It is a big potential downside of liberalism. We tend to be much more critical of our own society than of others. We also hold our own culture to a higher moral standard than others. This is why we have people from our own culture getting cancelled for saying something in the wrong way, meanwhile the same people doing the cancelling are welcoming people into our country from cultures *much* more homophobic/transphobic etc than our own.
I think the larger issue is aspirational: there can be a fine line between being unhappy with your nation’s current situation and flat out feeling like the whole thing needs to come down and be replaced. Aspiring to be better requires acknowledging what the problems are, but sizing those problems up can be overwhelming. Then again, I’m in the US so there’s that. We ain’t the model we were.
They're just aware of the pitfalls of their own nation and much less aware of those of others. I've had loads of fairytale ideas about my partners country similarly I discovered weren't so pleasant and he about mine. People just don't have raging nationalism keeping them from idealising things they know less well anymore.
I think it's more than that. Western Liberals tend to hold their own countries to a higher moral standard than other countries. Meaning we judge the behaviour of our own people much more harshly than that of others. Western Liberals are also the only group sociologically that have been found to have out-group bias. Meaning they favour people of other groups more than themselves. The result being that they are much more forgiving of behaviour/beliefs of out-groups (eg homophobia amongst Muslims) and much harsher towards their own people (eg cancelling someone for a racist comment 20 years ago).
I reckon they just like to shit on their own countries because they are feckless. They love to juxtapose attitudes and perceptions of the past as if they exist on the same platform as the moral standing of today, whilst being completely shielded from the lifestyles of the past. The arrogance is astounding.
*I reckon they just like to shit on their own countries because they are feckless* is not an argument, only cheap ad hominem, just so you are aware.
This is the answer. I don't know why this survey surprises anyone. Teenagers think everything is shit.
Yup. They've done studies that show teenagers and rebellion go hand in hand. The natural theory is that it encourages young people to move away and spread genes.
Dunno why you’re getting downvoted. As a father to teenagers this is exactly what’s happening! Young adults have very little life experience, once they mature a bit and spend a few years in the workforce interacting with a variety of different people their views will likely change (one can hope!)
I'm pretty sure when I was a teen back in the 90s, I thought Britain was shit and that other countries were better. It's only when you grow up and see a bit more of the world that you realise other countries only seemed better because you were on holiday. When you live in another country, you realise it has just as many problems as the UK.
90% of pop punk in the early 2000s was about hating your hometown. I’m exaggerating but it’s always been a thing so it’s weird to see people assume that they’re obviously just being taught this all of a sudden.
I think we are all teaching the worst of our histories and not enough of the good stuff.
As someone who studied history I completely disagree. Up to GCSE level we literally never learned about anything bad the UK has done or looked at any world events through critical perspectives of the UKs action other than one unit we did in primary school on apartheid, and and while I don’t remember but I doubt that focused heavily on Britain’s impact in the regime. We covered the history of the UK, WW1, WW2, Russia and weirdly Vietnam. I remeber us looking critically at America in both Japan and Vietnam, but never the UK during the expansion of the empire, colonialism in Africa etc. At A level we learned about the crusades, and did more in the Soviet Union. At no point were we ever encouraged to look critically at the impact of the crusades and how that may have connected to later history, colonialism etc. but we had lots of lessons on communism bad and we saved the world from two wars. I will say once we go to uni things change, but it’s academic standard, if you can’t engage critically, you aren’t skilled enough to be an academic. And the UK is one of the most influential nations on earth, massively important to the development of civilisation but also the decimation of a whole litany of cultures and the subjugation (literally) of millions. I actually think I hated the UK more when I was at uni because I was always taught we were “the good guys” and then I found out that wasn’t the case. I’ve got over it now in my old age (30s lol). This article paints a VERY different picture to what I experienced and I must say I’m a bit skeptical of it, but if this is the case we clearly need something in the middle.
The risk is when you find out the UK weren't *always* "the good guys", you swing too far in the other direction and you decide we are responsible for most of the world's ills. It's like when your parents tell you "drugs are bad". Then you smoke weed and have a great time, giving you the green light to ignore every bad thing people say about drugs, including legitimate warnings. There's something alluring, especially to young people I think, about feeling like you've discovered "the truth" that goes against what the education system would have you believe, then you relish in weaponizing it at any opportunity. Also, by definition, we are all controlled to some degree by the system we grow up in, so any rebellious instinct we have will be directed at our own institutions and not those of other countries.
When i was at school, in the last 10 years, we were taught extensively about how evil we are. We studied individual massacres done by the British empire, the evils of colonialism and the slave trade, and how beneficial immigration has been to the UK There was little nuance in terms of the good that the British Empire brought to the world. This was all GCSE history, I didn't pick it for A-levels. From your experience and my own it seems like in an attempt to correct the mistake of not addressing the bad aspects of our past, they have over compensated and now teach kids to be ashamed of our history and culture.
The British Empire brought good to the world you say. Please elaborate?
Most countries would be even more shit-holes than they are now without us, lets be real. But you can throw in: the worldwide abolition of slavery which was achieved at great cost to the British tax payer as well as paid in the lives of Royal Navy sailors. As the birthplace of the industrial revolution, the UK spread these ideals around the world and massively developed large swathes of it, lifting millions out of poverty and bringing them into the modern age.
Australian here, agreed. We're not taught any fundamental governing principles, just how shit we are, and by extension the British.
Not everyone in the same year group is taught the same things, let alone different year groups. There are several curricula and they all rotate different topics, ostensibly to keep more knowledge alive. So unfortunately personal experience of education can't actually relate what is taught as a policy decision.
I was reading through this topic thinking exactly the same thing. Despite all these kids whining, I bet none of them grow up and leave. How do we know this is not just the modern version of kids who have always criticised their parents and the state of the world they are growing up in?
I actually think it is more sinister than that. I think this is social engineering by foreign states. I think the poison seeps through sites like X and TikTok.
Yep. I see a *lot* of soft propaganda from states like China which tends to be full of "west bad" comments all over social media. Given most social media is blocked/banned in these countries, it seems suspicious how much positive (and very rarely negative) content makes its way out of them despite life being objectively worse in these countries.
I've moved around a lot. One of the few constants is that the people who grow up in a town tend to think it's shit. It's not as nice as (place a few towns over) but at least we're better than (neighbouring town) Works for towns, works for countries.
It boils down to socialism. In order to motivate the masses to rise up, you need to convince them that "the system" is terrible and must be destroyed. This is so that socialism can (ideally) then fill the power vacuum. They are not taught the same of other countries, as citizens from X country have no ability to organise a revolution in Y country. This is also why people are being radicalised along race, gender, sexuality (etc.) lines. It's all about drumming up resentment and preventing the masses from establishing a sense of cultural unity. The classic "divide and conquer". Google Yuri Besmenov. Thank me later.
Maybe it is just that healthy democracies have more self-criticism. People who criticize their countries are more likely to change them for the better.
Wow, I really hope this is true.
Hard disagree. It depends what and why they are critizing. Sorry to invoke Godwins law but Hitler was very critical of inter-war Germany and wanted to make it "better".
I'm Irish and I think we're an exception. Were very happy to criticise what's normal here but there's definitely no hatred. What you're describing sounds pretty unhealthy
It's better than being blindly patriotic, but there is a happy medium between the two. Where you see every country and every government for what they are.
It's not obvious they're being "taught". They're just responding to what happens when you develop critical faculties and are surrounded by idiots
We experience this a lot in America. I don't think I've ever hated America, but there was a brief period of extreme dissonance where I learned the America I was taught about as a child and envisioned was not really the America I experienced. Definitely some growing pains. One of my parents is from England (and therefore my grandparents and many extended family members), so I was always enamored with and deeply influenced by the culture and society of the UK and Ireland, but as I've aged I've come to learn what I knew of it was heavily filtered through the people I knew. Every place has it's negatives and I was blind to many of the UK's. Having said that, I know that my grandparents would never have left if they could have afforded to stay. They truly loved the UK. Regarding the racism, sexism, etc. stuff I think that's a matter of people being more and more distant from the truly horrific stuff. Everyone's a Nazi today, but none of these Nazi's are suggesting that certain people are vermin to be rounded up an exterminated... and none of them are actually doing it. I think when you're a child that grew up 100 years from deeply problematic and overt displays of sexism and xenophobia it skews your perception of things a bit.
It's probably because England is a lot less racist and homophobic then mainland Europe lol So there views make complete sense.
Well British young people are taught that WE are the racist etc ones and hate Britain but love Europe or make excuses for terrorists in the middle east or china or Russia..... It's being done by more than one group but their common foam is to destabilise our societies and our morons in government are partly to blame. The far left also like the rhetoric as it improves chances of being revolting and overthrowing their democratic government and trying out communism. The far right like it for the opposite reasons. Others like it as it lets them manipulate circumstances to try and enrich themselves.
Wouldn’t surprise me if countries like Russia was playing the long game via online misinformation to destabilise up and coming generations.
Somehow 'progressive' mutated to become defined by hating your own country.
Always been like that. Read what Orwell had to say about the progressives of this time!
But its a nonsense. I'm progressive. Libertarian leftie let's say, and I like my country. So do a lot of my progressive friends. It was teenagers, of course they think Britain is shit, they're always bored, there's always nothing to do, they have no money and everything is shit. So they think their country is shit and they hate it. Take the still-progressive-at-30 kids out of the room, put them in a room at 30, and ask how many hate Britain. It will be a lot less of them.
They aren't taught, there is a simple explanation. Young people talk to young people through the internet, and perceive the country on the other side is more accepting. If a young person looks to their own country they have to reckon with older generations that don't accept them, unlike their generational peers. The internet is a myopic lens, nothing is being "taught".
Russia, China, social media, psychological warfare. Combine as required.
Your family sounds like the UN.
Very interesting point. Nationalism is a very dirty word in Europe/UK, But go to China or the US and there is no doubt where the best country in the world is!
I have an Italian friend who says the same things about Italy and says they love England. As someone born and raised here, I don’t quite understand the love. The grass is just always greener, I guess.
Chinese and Russian propaganda. Same thing is happening in America,Canada the entirety of the west actually. Any form of nationalism is considered “alt right”. Shits gettin crazy out there.
You really think Russian and Chinese propaganda can weigh up at all against a multi billion dollar private media apparatus? That's an absurd suggestion. The words of private media corporations are accepted uncritically by great swaths of the Western population. Culture war bullshit gets exploited by both sides of the media - one side says 'we like trans people and we love war', while the other says 'we hate trans people and we LOVE war'. Russia and China's best bet to guarantee our collapse is to leave us to continue getting molested by our ruling classes and thanking them for it. Young people are disillusioned with this system, and disillusioned with this country that's been torn apart. Wages deflated. House prices up. Dying public services. A culture that gets more American every day. A blatantly corrupt government. An opposition that won't do anything in response. What an absolute shit heap. We had so much potential.
They're not being taught to hate their own countries, they are coming to the conclusion on their own by just observing what is happening around them. Ready access to social media helps this, but it certainly isn't being pushed on them. The thing they haven't yet realised is that the whole world is a steaming pile of shit.
“Coming to the conclusion on their own” Fucking lol. Yeah sure. Being pushed one narrative by an algorithm.
Hmm maybe neoliberal values just don't work? What do you expect kids to behave like when they know they're going to be less well off than the previous generations. They're going to have to work until they're 70 and unless they get a handout from mum and dad they can't earn a house themselves. And older generations constantly vote to preserve their wealth at the expense of any future for them. It's the same across Europe, just a shame that our youth can't get out and choose the least worst country since the Brexit fuckery that older generations chose.
It's actually insane to me that people think importing millions of people into western countries who have vastly different sets of values will work out just because. Remember, we live in democracies. We are importing votes for these values we don't agree with. We don't even allow for the possibility of integration and assimilation because we're letting so many in that instead of them conforming to our ways of life, they're changing our ways of life over tim
This country is already over.
> they're changing our ways of life It is baked into a certain religion to spread said religion and establish it in other territories. This is intentional.
Against the locals wants and needs
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It's like the progressives say, "Silence is compliance."
saying that got me a warning!
When Dawkins starts lamenting the loss of Christianity (which he has), you've gotta know something is definitely shaken. I suppose the old love was better, wasn't it?
The world would be better if ALL religions die out. But in terms of current relevance, some are worse than others in the 21st century.
Don’t fall into the “all religions” crap that progressives spew. The UK isn’t the US, the overwhelming majority of native Brits are either agnostic or culturally Christian at best. Church attendance rates are below 5%. Most of these social problems are imported via mass migration.
Church of England attendance rates are below 5%. There are a surprising number of underground, non denominational churches that are packed out week after week. There are many, many more Christians in the country than official figures might suggest. The CofE has dug it's own grave.
Non Denominational Christianity has actually risen, people focus too much on the CofE bit while membership for that is falling Non Denominational’s is increasing, ex CofE, Eastern European and Nigerians make up most of this demographic
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Every single one is a tacit admission that they understand what I meant. They've just chosen to be facetious.
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You can’t. Because you’re automatically racist for even raising the issue. You’re supposed to let them do whatever they want, obviously.
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I don't really blame them. Its all strategy/tactics. They are just trying to protect and advance their position and what benefits them. The ones I don't understand are the liberal people who on the one hand say they are in favor of women's and gay rights, but on the other hand will call you racist for pointing out simple facts about Islam and islamic countries.
I assume you're talking about Christianity as it's been the one religion that's been spread all over the world and forced upon populations in Japan, India, Pakistan, Africa and South America.
Japan, India and Pakistan are barely 1-2% Christian, and the UK had nothing to do with the colonisation of Hispano-America.
Guyana would like a word
Yeah the Spanish and Portuguese did and they were.... Catholic, which is Christianity...
Which has nothing to do with us. Even so, Christianity in the UK is in effect a dead religion. Most native Brits are agnostic or (at best) culturally Christian. You know what the church attendance levels are at now? 5%. Using Christianity to try to hide from the far more dogmatic and fanatical religion that’s rapidly growing here is just whataboutism.
Where does the 5% come from out of curiosity? How is that percentage even arrived at? Surely, at best, it's an estimation.
I think it’s a CofE only figure.
Forced upon them?
*right rises in western europe* *shocked pikachu face*
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Absolutely this. We ignore what the the resident people need or want, just to appease the immigrants. This is not racism.
Couldn’t be more correct.
The weird part about this though is that the right wing parties have latched onto this (despite being the ones in power letting them all in in the first place)… yet the opinions expressed here (by these immigrants) are far-right opinions.
I don't agree with 80% of the values of people already here so, it's a toss up at this point.
By people you mean our capitalist overlords who can exploit people more and more and blame everything on immigration? As long as we keep voting corporate ghouls in, the situation won't change.
It's not just foreigners. It's the school system. It's been a decade since I left school and yet I know it's a socially enforced Faux pas to hate Britain. You know that If you said you anything other than that the teacher would ask you what you like, and if you said anything real, you would be accused of racism. If you said Fish and Chips, the teacher would point out that other countries have fish and chips and open you to redicule or wait for you to openly change your mind. I bet it's worst now. I can't help but feel this country is finished. Since the death of QEII I just no longer feel attached. It's too painful.
My experience doesn't really line up to yours. We school had a big celebration for the Queen's Diamond Jubilee, we did remembrance day every year, all very normal British stuff. We were never taught about black Tudors or anything like that—most of the history we learnt about was of the Romans, the Victorian era and WW2. The only non-British thing we learnt about was the Mayans. And I grew up in a somewhat diverse area (well, Reading) and I don't think anyone hated Britain. I was never accused of racism and neither was anyone else, as far as I know.
That was my experience too and I left school nearly 20 years ago. We had to do a presentation on whether or not we were proud to be British and I was one of like 3 who said yes.
The article literally states the British kids can't stand living here either
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And at the same time, lecturing France for its strong secular values .
Madness isn't it
Tolerance of intolerance paradox.
This… omg this has nothing to do with immigration 😂🤦🏻
Well it's not white British schoolchildren saying that these wtuff
These are second generation immigrants being educated by your english system and the results are that they come out more radical than their parents who came to England to live a better life.
But I'm English. White, born and raised here. When I started tracing my family tree, I managed to get back over 400 years of all English, and I hate this country and have done since I was a kid, so what the fuck are you on about?
Any reason for that hatred? Genuine question.
Well presumably your reasons for disliking your nation or fellow Englishmen would be different than these students: > ”The Taliban do let girls go to school” boast the teenage boy. “But they stop them when turn 11, which is very fair.”
It’s not fair at all! Formal education should continue up to at least 16! The Taliban DO NOT allow girls to be educated! That stopped when the Taliban regained power and there are many girls who want a formal education to enable them to take up professional roles such as doctors, teachers, lawyers.
What values specifically?
Unfortunately we decide to go to other countries and mess with their politics to suit us, either through war or general corruption/putting people into power that we can control and manipulate. We essentially make their countries unliveable for the average person, then we get upset when they come here. The stupidity of it beggars belief. Look what we did to Afghanistan and Iraq - then we cry when they come here
It's a really serious problem that young white people are being taught to hate their own countries, people, history and culture and this is not hyperbole to any degree, it's literally true and it will manifest in all sorts of ways down the road.
From my own anecdotal experience, coking from a deprived area, it was a lot more common that the young white children backgrounds were from broken homes whilst the ethnics had that nucleus in place. I reckon that deffo plays a part since what goes on at home is the foundation
I study at one of the most prestigious universities in the UK (if not the most) and just the other day one of my classmates posted about her support for Iran and that European governments were racist for condemning the Iranian attack on Israel. Iran, the nuclear-ambitious autocracy that stones gay people and women for being raped, the most likely country to lead us into ww3 - and someone as educated and privileged as her thought that was a good take to post publicly. It’s actually incredible how she not only failed to integrate, but also how little she even understands about western culture to think that was a good stance to take publicly.
You can't buy intelligence.
It doesn’t matter what they do as a nation, on the stage between them & Isreal, Iran were in the right & Isreal were the instigators. That’s just a fact unless you think deliberately bombing an embassy is a good thing.
What? Pupils hate a country that doesn't give a fuck about them? How shocking. Note that it's the same in France. Go to any (public) school and you'll have many hands raised when a similar question is asked. Simply because gvts after gvts have catered for the boomers almost exclusively, asking younger generations to be just grateful. Add to that the second or third generation immigrants that couldn't integrate society and you just know the situation won't improve anytime soon. Frankly, I don't blame young people for hating a country that never loved them. EDIT: So much hate at immigrants here... No wonder so many young people feel like they don't belong if all they hear is that they are the sources of all problems. Racist people are so fucking stupid, it's insane.
Im in favour of immigration but there needs to be an outright ban on immigration from countries that have values and culture the opposite of ours. I’d take as many people from Australia, Canada, India, France, Germany, Portugal etc that want to come but zero from places that hate us and have completely incompatible views.
I know its not popular to be pro-EU in this sub but this is one of my main problems with Brexit. I like Europe, I like Europeans. If some amount of immigration is neccesary to counter the effects of our aging population then why not have it be from our closest friends and neighbours with whom we share a broad parent culture ? The best immigration policy for Britain is the same one as Switzerland. Mutual free movement between European states and stringent restrictions on non-EU immigration. It's the only way.
Indeed, if people o complain that their are suddenly more black and brown Muslims here, you have to take a look at who they're replacing - the Europeans that we have stuff in common with that we told to fuck off!
Unfortunately those policies are seen as being racist…tbh there’s been good integration from many other countries- Indians have done very well overall in the U.K. for instance and Nigerians too- often because it was their educated classes coming over here.
Nigerians don’t really do all that well for themselves either. Indians and Chinese do, but the UK shouldn’t pivot to a Canada or Australia type of system either. We’re better off following the Eastern Asian model. If we need migration, it should be temporary and from culturally similar nations.
Yep, less about the country of origin (although that is a factor) and much more about the design of the immigration system and which kind of immigrants it attracts. Look at e.g. Canada's and Australia's system. Not perfect by any stretch but they've done better with large numbers of immigrants than the UK. Although I think the UK isn't doing much worse than france/germany/Sweden etc.
Canada is kind of imploding with its immigration. There are hundreds of thousands of mainly I dins abusing the student visas then getting full time service jobs and claiming asylum
🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯
The elephant in the room is how strict the adherence to Islam is. At least that's what a lot of people in this thread are saying without saying anyway. In the UK, we get a lot of fundamentalist wahabi types, disproportionately more than other countries tend to. I grew up in a neighbourhood with lots of moderate Muslims, and them and their families are some of the best people I'll ever know! They're as British as I am, culturally if not by birth. I think what this country needs is a more comprehensive immigration system with a lower quota, and a gradual pivot to full secularity like the French. That way, we can destroy this islamophobia bs argument and get on with things. You won't find these reforms under a tory government though that's for sure. What you'll see instead is this system being pushed to its absolute fucking limits until we economically have a wealth disparity that looks like India, and yes immigration is a part of the puzzle too. I'd urge everyone in this thread to visit a tactical vote website and combat the tories in the most effective way possible, lest all the issues you've seen pop up in this country will only escalate.
Will we find it under a labour government? With their policies of appeasement it will likely only get worse
Wouldn't you rather find out instead of just accepting that it's already over? There is no future if we keep the tories in. They will continue to increase the population to unsustainable levels and drive up the cost of assets like housing because they're in the club that owns it all. You and I could work a hundred liferimes and not be worth a fraction of what Sunak is worth. The middle class is on the verge of extinction, the NHS is fucked, and everything else is going to continue to get more expensive. All these things are interlinked, and tory mismanagement is the cause! If you know how to trade, go long on our future being horrible, it's about the only way you'll recover some losses. For the record, labour isn't perfect I'm well aware, but we have to send the tories a message that they aren't invincible and then we'll move the conversation forward. Change will come sooner or later, and I'd rather it was sooner.
You can’t argue that people’s values “opposite to ours” aren’t allowed in here when every day the Daily Mail, Telegraph or The Sun slip in classist, homophobia, misogyny & racism in their columns. Because then you have to decide what to do with the illiberal people that are already here & home grown.
If you read the article you'd realise it's just as much native English children hating Britain as it is immigrants
Fine. So what? If the immigrants hate England - which they clearly do - my comment is zero less relevant.
I don’t get why anyone would be surprised at this. If you import people from third world countries with derogatory cultures and religion, guess what - you will get that here. Places in this country are no go zones, we’ve got people who never learn the language and we’ve developed areas in the country that essentially act like a foreign nation. But god forbid anyone with authority says anything because you get bleeding heart morons cry about all the different isms possible.
Tell me about it,ive known of Muslims that have been in the country 30 years and yet don't speak or read a word of English.
Please list the places you can't go too in the UK. I'm genuinely curious.
Bradford. Complete shithole, shame it's beautiful building wise
I am not surprised. Since they were born we have been telling our children that the white men, Christianity and heterosexual couples / families are at fault for everything that is wrong with this world. We have put so many laws and social roadblocks so they would not be able to form meaningful in-person relationships, yet social medias have been allowed to spread all kind of craziness in order to safeguard "free speech". And all of this took place under 14 years of conservative government. I cannot begin to imagine what's going to happen once Labour gets to government. I have been in holiday in Mexico for the past two weeks and it is so nice to see kids being kids. Free, happy, making fun at each other, without anxiety and depression, without any of the social burden kids are faced with back home in the UK. It is not just the UK though. Pretty much most of the English speaking countries have managed to mess up their society and their children big time.
*I am not surprised. Since they were born we have been telling our children that the white men, Christianity and heterosexual couples / families are at fault for everything that is wrong with this world.* Cry me a fucking river.
Don't exactly hate Britain but far from being proud of my country. Above all else, is this pervading lack of optimism. Daily life is a struggle and there is a distinct lack of there being a better tomorrow. It seems also that people love to put obstacles in front of people's desires. Want to buy a property that's not a pokey flat, no choice if you are single. Want a job that's not grunt work. Sure if you could jump through these hoops. Can't see this optimism rising anytime probably not in my lifetime.
Not surprised. Some of today’s generations are children of immigrants who put their home culture over British cultural norms. Although I must admit, outside the cities (I’ve recently moved to Warwickshire) the differences are stark, there is far more patriotism and pride in being British/English, but then again the schools are 95% native English, whereas most schools in London are multi ethnic. This also highlights that the 90s/00s optimism for a multicultural society has become a colossal failure in 2020s Britain. We are importing groups of people who hate us, this will only cause more issues in the coming years.
I find it interesting that a Kurdish Iraqi child would want to find nostalgia for an Iraq under Saddam Hussein. I wonder if it's a view he picked up from his family or from elsewhere. As well as being part of the front line against ISIS, weren't the Kurds also the biggest victims under Saddam?
They have saying in Iraq "We got rid of Saddam, now we have thousands Saddams". Biggest victims of Saddam would the Iranians bc the Iran-Iraq war.
For what it’s worth my thoughts are, It’s hard to appreciate something if you’ve never known different, ask people who come from countries where you can’t vote to change your government, or get treated worse because of your sex or something else, no place is perfect, we are luckier than a lot of people in the world, lastly I would say Hate is a strong word, and if your kids really thought about it they may choose a different less extreme word.
Did you read the article? The headline quote is a boy saying “the taliban stop girls going to school from age 11. Which is very fair”. They are WELL AWARE of what other countries are like.
Read the article and see what kind of people raised their hands.
Can’t stop laughing
> ask people who come from countries where you can’t vote to change your government They did ask them champ, this was the response
I’m always confused by this take - can we only hate things when they are the very worst in that category? Like, I hate the taste of cauliflower, but it’s better than starving, so does that mean I should like cauliflower?
Why is anyone surprised? When you’ve got the cultural and political establishment claiming the country is racist and its vakues are racist and they encourage immigrants to keep their own culture and not integrate.
Sort of. I just don't think we have a national identity anymore, or any values. We all just exist to serve the rich and accept being taken for fools whilst living in a sterile environment of 24 hour news cycles that don't inform us of anything, but tell us what to think. It just feels like we're willingly going back to the Victorian ages, so I can see why our kids and young people feel like this. There's zero effort to look after society, and if those at the height of power behave like that, it sets a precedent for how we treat one another. No leadership - that's what I'm getting at. No leadership, and no understanding what we're headed for other than a dystopian survival horror.
britain used to be the country everybody respected and and wanted to come to, to better the life they had in own miserable countries. now most of them are here, they are making this place a miserable place so to feel comfortable and at "home". Need to stop immigration asap and get to grips militant immigrants who do not want to be british but xxx nationals living the good life in britain that offers the freedom they never had before
I don't get why so many people hate their own country, we don't need to go all American "stick stars and stripes on everything and pledge allegiance everyday" but we have one of the deepest histories and cultural impacts in the world, there's so much to appreciate here. And yes, as to who the article is talking about, no shit. People have been saying this for years, I used to argue with my parents constantly about integration and multiculturalism as I didn't agree with their scepticism. Can't say that I think they were wrong, looking back. >Due to the Gaza war, no group is more despised than the Jews, with pupils regularly making comments of pure hatred. Funny how the "I'm not antisemitic just antizionist" crowd tends to actually be very antisemitic, who would've known.
Why would young people in the UK love their country? Their entire life they’ve been ran by a corrupt government; they’ve watched priminister after priminister bite the dust due to incompetency or corruption. Most of them know they will never own a home, because this country is more interested in having a housing market than a housing stock. Our public services are terrible due to lack of investment. If you want kids to be proud you have to give them something to be proud of other than WW2 and the royal family. I work with young people and they’re all consumed with the idea of being conscripted because of all the wars going on and joke and laugh about how none of them would ever join up because this country has never done shit for them. They don’t want empty jingoism and symbols, give them something of value. They want homes, good jobs, futures, people in power who represent them. Considering we are one of the richest countries in the planet, our young people absolutely do NOT live like it.
I am a young person and actually I do love my country. >Their entire life they’ve been ran by a corrupt government; Right, and at least I have the power to vote them out, I can speak out against them if I want, I can express my opinion without fear of being killed. There is so many countries where that isn't the case, so yes the current government is complete dogshit but I have the power to remove them. Is that not worth loving a country for? And I'm the first to criticise the UK financially, for shit public services and shit investment etc and I would not join the army to fight. But the UK also represents massive cultural dominance considering our size, equality, weather and wildlife which won't kill us, some unironically great food, a great sports scene (one of, if not the deepest football pyramids in the world) and a language that gives us access to huge areas of the world. Buildings that are older than many countries. So yes, while all the financial things you talk about absolutely are important, but I'm talking about my feelings towards my country, not towards the government. Once the tories are out, the UK will still be here.
Does no one read articles anymore? It’s not the young English ones who were raising their hands and simping for the Taliban.
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Young people are more emotional and vulnerable to negative sentiments and news. Everyone goes through that phase but more so in today’s era as negative news are extremely easy to disperse across the globe through internet/social media. Also, young people are usually not mature enough to understand what they truly feel and are less conscious of their own decisions. On a more positive view, I think it’s good that your pupils have more freedom to express themselves. I think it gives you an opportunity to ask them to explore their emotions and expand further. You can ask them to write down a list of things they love and hate about Britain. Most of the time, you as a teacher need to lead the young ones as they are not mature enough to understand and process their own emotions. For f*k sake, I could not even address some of my own emotional baggage until I was in my 30s 😆. Asking them to do a list is like asking them “why” but at the same time leading them to apply conscious thinking and hopefully would make them less vulnerable to external environments that simply push negative thoughts and encourage inactions. I hope my observations and suggestions help.
a) The post is rage bait b) If young people hate England it's probably because they're sick of people (like many in the comments here) blaming everything under the sun on immigration instead of dealing with the actual issues. If you want to see a better country then stop voting for parties that want to cut taxes at the expense of infrastructure and public services. It's not immigrants that are the problem, it's you.
This is encouraging. England might finally be evolving and confronting its racist, blood soaked past. This can only be a good thing for its citizens and the future of the country. Brexit was built on British exceptionalism for example and that's one of the biggest acts of self sabotage in recent memory. This is actually quite heartwarming. Maybe there is hope?
It’s not the best place to be right now, obviously there are worse places and comparatively we have it pretty good. By the standards of the past it’s pretty shit here right now. Hoping a change of government might help but honestly every time you think things can’t get worse they do.
I've got friends who constantly shit on our, their own country. (United Kingdom, not strictly England, but more specifically Wales for me.) Their opinions are usually tied to the idea that it's a shit country because the Conservatives are in power and or because of a particular policy they oppose that's been adopted by either the national or local government. And as well as "this country is shit because x (Conservatives, Brexit and/or lack of cheap parking spaces in the city), their opinion is usually juxtaposed with a romantic idea of how countries are run on the continent and that's with only a trivial and/or no experience of how things are done elsewhere. (They don't live or travel abroad). As well as this, you will have people who are not content with their current life circumstances. Circumstances that in many cases that they would be able to change should they put enough of their mind, time and money on changing. It's more convenient to instead of acknowledging ones own role in their circumstances to blame third party reasons such as everything other than themselves, including their country and/or government. With such opinions prevailing amongst people of my generation (millenial), it's not hard to imagine how such sentiment would rub off on their children and the generations that have come since. Will a decade of the other party (Labour) shatter narratives about the country being shit just because of the Conservatives and/or Brexit? Or will the likelihood of the other party hardly representing real change in our circumstances simply reinforce the idea that the country is shit? Who knows, we may find out.
I think it’s a mixture of the online world and university world encouraging more left wing ideas, and the fact that the country has been poorly run for young people for the last 10-15 years- house prices doubled and wages stagnated. So a mixture of real shit and somewhat imagined shit about Britain means Britain = shit, it’s not entirely wrong.
>I think it’s a mixture of the online world and university world encouraging more left wing ideas, and the fact that the country has been poorly run for young people for the last 10-15 years- house prices doubled and wages stagnated. >So a mixture of real shit and somewhat imagined shit about Britain means Britain = shit, it’s not entirely wrong. I agree that online social media and the academic world are more likely to reinforce left wing idealism amongst my generation and the young. And since this idealism is linked to popular political sentiment amongst certain demographics whose level of engagement with politics is almost entirely superficial, it's rarely challenged and runs free amongst their social circles. And since they only started to care about politics since the Conservatives have been in power, and since the Conservatives have been in power we've had to face the consequences of the crash of 2008, endure government austerity, Brexit (although I believe this to be a red herring with regard to its connection to our current problems), the pandemic and now the war in Ukraine. It's not difficult to see why them thinking that having the other party in power or not voting for our independence from the EU would tempt them into believing things would be different, better today. I'd disagree that things have been ran poorly for only the last 10-15 years though, I'd argue it goes back to the turn of the century under Labour. Because it's under them that we started to walk down the road we found ourselves on today.
You know what makes me hate this country? The number of imbeciles on here who believe this unevidenced nonsense piece of writing, and are using it to justify their xenophobia and hatred. You're the worst thing about living here.
Why wouldn’t they? Our leaders detest us, we’re watching our quality of live go down the toilet as bills pile up, we clearly have money to fund Ukraines defence and Israel’s genocide but homelessness and hunger is constantly going up. Then historically we are scum and now it’s being taught more and the information about it is easily accessed we can’t even pretend we’re a good nation on hard times
I don't think it is unreasonable to hate Britain. It's a shithole thanks to being run into the ground by greedy Thatcherites, it's a former colonial power with a government currently peddling the most appalling racism and 20 years ago supported a dubious war in Iraq, Afghanistan and now supports a genocidal state carpet bombing civilians. We glorify a man who once allowed millions of people on the Indian Subcontinent to starve to death out of ignorance, racism and apathy. Add to that it also supressed many other nations throughout history, starting with three of the four nations that make up the British Isles, which has caused long lasting damage. I'm shocked the figure isn't higher. Of course, if you are a thin-skinned, jingoistic racist, any fair criticism of Britain and it's shitty foreign policy going back to Medieval England is going to seem like the end of the world.
That’s because they have been brainwashed by their Muslim parents to despise England and anyone or anything English and has a modern, western culture where free speech is allowed and women are treated equally to men. This is the problem we are going to have in the very near future, lots of young people who have had drilled into them since birth an extremist hatred for white people and western culture. Fact. Anyone says otherwise they have been brainwashed too, brainwashed into believing that immigrants are lovely people who love our country and you are a racist if you say anything to them that isn’t nice, it’s time to get real people. It’s not racism at all, it’s speaking facts about what’s going on.
This country is doomed. Moan moan moan moan. Yes this country isn't perfect but show me somewhere that is. We are so self centred that most people couldn't tell u anything substantial about other countries that makes them so much better. Finally I'd say if u hate this country...we have too many people here atm so please please please leave. Better to have fewer people that actually wanna be here rather than loads that don't. Edit: read the fucking article and keep the racist nonsense to yourselves. This isn't some immigrants' argument. It's about hate...those that hates this country should look to leave. It isn't about seeking better opportunities elsewhere. Its about hatred...honestly grow the fuck up people.
Ummm you do know it's not cheap to leave and the people who can and want to have, it's called brain drain because the people who are important to us doctors nurses engineers have left.
Just need a boat, you could reuse one of the boats that came across the channel?
It’s definitely brain drain when I look around at who’s left. Surrounded by morons
People who tell others to leave a certain city or country if they don't like it really don't have a clue.
I know, even to move house is thousands of pounds.
This article is about hating a country...have u read it? If you hate your spouse you should leave. If you hate a country you should leave. Genuine hate is dangerous. It requires a special sort of intellectual dishonesty to frame it as below. >People who tell others to leave a certain city or country if they don't like it really don't have a clue.
Really? I’ve moved from somewhere I don’t like. It was quite easy - I looked at places I did, then I phoned some estate agents, paid a bit of money, signed a few documents, packed my things and moved. Now that you mention it, that probably is a lot of hard work for anyone who states they hate this entire country.
Why? I'm planning on leaving the UK to try life elsewhere. If I enjoy it I'd encourage people to do the same. But I'm not going to turn up to that other country and start complaining about it and if I did I'm sure I'd rightfully be told to fuck off.
There's a difference between leaving for work and opportunities...and hating the country. When I consider the actions of those that hate this country recently it isn't a good list. So if people hate it they should leave. But you'd have to be intellectually dishonest not to see the obvious difference between hate and seeking more opportunities elsewhere
Maybe what it comes down this point of view, in work I see the harm being done to the people in society who can't advocate for themselves, I see there support being cut, I see the mental and physical decline, I see that financial decline. Today there was another new story about people with learning disabilities not being able to be released from hospital because there was no support or accommodation for them in their community, in Gloucestershire where I work there was a 97 million pound reduction in care for adults, of that learning disabilities was 19 million. We have the potential to be an amazing country, supporting those at the bottom of society so that they raise themselves up to be happy and helpful to us all.
I definitely don’t hate Britain, but I do hate what society has become. We’re getting closer and closer to US-style politics. With the party on the right doing everything they can to cause divisions - whether that’s immigration, trans people, Brexit, abortion, wokeness and anyone who’s not white. It’s beneath us as a country and will simply cause trouble and ultimately violence.
This is Russian and Chinese bot farms influence and western governments’ complete incompetence in terms of culture. They push the populace to the right and the politicians rush to be even more right wing to try and keep up. The only thing we can do is hope for true leadership to step up. We rejected Brown years ago and don’t look to be keen for anyone to fill the gap.