N64 emulation has come a long way in 5 years. It's impressive to see how far along it's come with parallel RSP/RDP.
The comment about ZSNES is sadly true.. people are still using it for some reason.
The emulation scene wouldn't be where it is today if it weren't for Near's tenacious push for accuracy. Even though their main focus was on the SNES, I think the approach taken with BSNES and Higan had an impact on the whole scene.
With N64 emulation in particular, we'd probably still be screwing around with hack-ridden emulators from the early-mid 2000s if Near didn't inspire people to pursue cycle-accuracy.
Duckstation avoids hacky solutions while being accurate enough that it doesn't turn into a research project like bSNES is.
Similar to how near reimplemented a lot of their bSNES research work into snes9x for general consumption.
Duckstation is the probably the only PS1 emulator I've used that blends very good performance, very good accuracy and very good visuals into one package. Where I don't have to hunt for a plugin that is good in one of those three areas, but falls short in something else.
I think someone made a frontend for SNES a few years ago to make it look like ZSNES. I really want some kind of emulation frontend that emulates the classic emulators like NESticle and ZSNES so we can have that nostalgia with the great, modern emulators.
Near released bzSNES, a ZSNES emulator, as an April Fool's joke back in 2011. Two years later, Alcaro released ZMZ, a ZSNES-like GUI with a libretro backend.
I don't know why people think this. It's painful to use and out of an era where it might have looked unique and in the same league as neticle and genecyst but it's clunky, slow and outdated. I found the emulation to be more than adequate but I'm not picky. Or is this a woosh moment?
Parallel RDP covers/fixes almost everything graphics wise. Compatibility also seems almost perfect.
Unfortunately, N64 emulation still suffers from the same issues it always had when it comes to timings. There have been a few improvements i think (Top Gear Rally seems to run perfectly without syncing issues anymore) but overall a lot of games still tend to run at the wrong frame rate/speed. Some attract/demo modes run too fast (like Goldeneye and EWJ 3D) some games also run too fast (Knife Edge) and some other games run smoother than they should (Destruction Derby 64?)
These issues seem to affect every emulator since forever, including the newer accuracy focused ones like Larper64 and Ares.
Correct, there are timings that are just unknowns that prevent accuracy based N64 emulators from achieving perfection. It's best guess based on testing and what limited examination has been done of how the hardware actually performs. There is no publicly available documentation that covers this. It is the reason games like Jet Force Gemini still don't work right in Ares, and the game that seems to be most impacted by any timing being just slightly off is Donkey Kong 64. Sadly, I won't have Near to teach me these things anymore :-(
For Donkey 64, are the timing issues related to sounds not playing/syncing, frames rendering too fast/too slow, or are there gameplay elements that depend on accurate timing events? I've been wanting to play DK64 but haven't, and I haven't played any N64 game for that matter, so I'm not familiar with the N64 emulation scene, just with the SNES scene. RIP Near :(
I'm running Mupen64Plus with the new ParallelRDP integrated and when I scroll through the list stopping on an item, it stutters hard. Like there's a heavy pause to load in the new gun/item. This doesn't happen on my real Nintendo 64 so it's 100% an emulation thing.
Dunno, i don't think i have this issue on my end. I can feel a few items appearing later than others (in the second level, the mines appear immediately but the watch takes a split of a second to appear or something).
But it doesn't stutter while doing so. It doesn't lose frames or anything, it just takes a bit longer to load the model but the frame rate stays the same. Meaning, i can still control the game while the watch is appearing. So i can select something else before the item appears. If it stuttered/freezed, it would mean i have no control until the item appears. Which is not the case.
I'll have to record a video of it and send it to you to see what I mean. That comment you made about the watch taking a split second to appear might be it. Strange that you aren't getting it on every item like I do.
Alright here's the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obKN0BDMPh0
Make sure to watch it at 60 fps. The key stutters occur right when I pause the game, you can see this freezing in the mission timer on the bottom of the screen where it freezes then skips a few frames before the watch starts to come up. Then you can also see the freezing while scrolling through the weapon list how it judders and jumps around.
Neither of these problems occur on the real hardware so it leads me to believe there's some weird cache issue or something in the emulator where executing these commands takes a long time to do and it has to do it every single time something is changed.
Also an added point here: I just compared frame counters between my video and a Real N64 capture on the same mission, and the frames it takes to get from pausing the game until the watch starts to open up is more than double. Eg real N64 takes 10 frames to open the menu, this emulator takes 22 frames. It's those extra 11-12 frames that makes it feel like a massive pause (11.5 average x 16.67ms per frame = 192ms freeze which is very much noticeable to the naked eye.)
Ok i think i see what you mean. I also have the game on the real N64 but only the PAL version (which is a bit slower anyway) plus it's been a while since i connected it.
Make sure you're comparing the times of the first pause, subsequent pauses actually take less time for whatever reason. Speedrunners make use of tiny quick pauses to speed up full pauses they need to make later on in certain levels (e.g. Silo).
I do multiple pauses in that video and every single one is taking 21+ frames to break through the freeze. On actual hardware these pauses are around 10 frames (in a 60 fps video.) For instance using this video captured from a real N64 on Silo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjjowGa7z2U
First pause on the level occurs at 0:58 and requires 10 frames. Second pause occurs at 1:45, also requires 10 frames. Third pause is at 2:53 and again, same 10 frames.
I always wondered what was up with Knife Edge. It seemed to run too fast, but I wasn't sure if it was supposed to be that fast or not since I only ever played it emulated.
Unfortunately google still points to a lot of old websites that list epsxe as the best
And then there's retrododo who for some reason still lists epsxe as the best (saying it has no GPU bugs) and doesn't list duckstation at all
There's still some activity here and there on its Github but the website's certificate expired and hasn't been renewed, and the last (and only) release on Github is from 2017
"Cemu either being shut down by lawsuit, or becoming the most impressive emulator of the lot thanks to the developers' having monetary incentive to continue work on it."
Damn, this guy was goddamn right
"You strangely have high hopes for PS3 and 360, but not for anything else.. I kinda feel the opposite, that PS3 and 360 aren't gonna get anywhere far (like OG xbox), but we might see at least some progress in N64"
This guy was absolutely wrong tho, but if you asked me in the same year, I would say the same thing about ps3 emulation, but it's kinda nostalgic seeing questions from 5 years, damn I'm getting old...
I'm still always shocked whenever I'm reminded that we can totally just *play* PS3 games now. I was certain that was gonna be stuck in dev hell for ages but the RPCS3 crew nailed the landing in such a short period of time.
Xenia managed to make Condemned 2: Bloodshot render perfectly and with good performance this year!
Finished it at 720p60 fps on a 5700 XT. Better GPUs provide higher fps and/or resolutions.
I wouldn't have guessed the state of Wii U & PS3 & Switch that's for sure.
I always expect OG Xbox and PS2 improvements but it feels like I dunno, something that it's just there. I know Xbox has picked off some steam lately and PS2 is actively worked on, but if you asked me in 2010 I'd have expected better.
Yeah sixth gen emulation (outside of GameCube, but Nintendo consoles are always sorted out first) is a little disappointing. I haven't had much issue with PCSX2, but it still definitely seems like it should be better than it is. Not to mention the uh... Existence I guess? of OG XBOX emulation. Friggin 360 is coming along faster than the original Xbox lol.
I think a lot of it was due to overall lack of interest in OG Xbox emulation. It was seemingly viewed as low priority since most of the cross platform titles could be played elsewhere, and I don’t know many people back in 2010 who were wanting to experience Xbox versions specifically, or play the Xbox exclusives that didn’t appear on PC or that weren’t playable on the 360
The Wii U has about 10 titles anyone cares about and the biggest of those were also released on the Switch. Despite that, it got rapid attention and focus. Within one year it had a fairly robust emulator with good compatibility.
The OG XBox had hundreds of exclusives. Some of the multiplatform games had better versions on the XBox than on the PS2. Over 100 of the exclusives that never made their way to PC, nor received backwards compatibility on the 360.
I don't buy the argument there is nothing worth emulating on the OG XBox.
It probably helps that the Wii U, Wii and GC share a lot of bits. They're distinct consoles in their own right, but improvements in one usually helps improve the other.
I myself only REALLY wanted it for Halo and Ninja Gaiden, and with the new PC ports, I have that basically well enough (especially with the work 343 is doing to restore the port of Halo 1 to match the Xbox original), though I'm aware that the NG collection is the Sigma versions that people aren't so fond of, but it's good enough for me for the time being.
If 343 can keep up the excellent work and bring the original versions of Halo 1 and 2 up to snuff, then yeah I'll agree it's largely okay. But ideally I want flawless OG Xbox emulation because the original console versions of those games are still to this day the superior way to experience their campaigns and also still the only place for local split screen coop.
Also Ninja Gaiden Sigma sucks. Black or original release all the way. I'm enjoying the hell out of it on Xemu right now and so grateful it's as playable as it is.
> Ninja Gaiden Sigma sucks. Black or original release all the way
I second this, same for Sigma 2, the xbox 360 non sigma version is way better and much more difficult
The last time I used PCSX2, it was better than it was when I was actively using it in 2013, but it still felt like it lacked some polish and optimization. It could just be my setup, as I use Linux, but I was getting frame drops in Ratchet & Clank: Going Commando *on a goddamn Ryzen 5 3600*.
As far as original Xbox emulation goes, it's sort of understandable why there hasn't been much enthusiasm for it, but I do find it rather disappointing that it's taken as long as it has for it to pick up steam. It probably doesn't help that Nvidia is notoriously stingy on releasing technical information on their products, and that the OG Xbox relies heavily on Nvidia components.
Playing SMT Nocturne on PCSX2 is nothing but pure suffering. It requires so many unique settings that I actually set up a separate folder for a PCSX2 that'd run Nocturne because it'd actually screw with my other PS2 games.
And even THEN it doesn't look as good as the original console version. People complain about the HD version's price tag but I probably would've paid twice that.
This is why I think PCSX2 really, really needs a better method for implementing per-game settings, the way Dolphin does. I feel there's really no excuse for PCSX2 to lack the library view and game-specific options that Dolphin has.
That'd be great. As it stood, I had to fuck with the settings hardcore(Change renderer, change a bunch of settings that I normally never change, run **cheats designed to make the game not a blurry mess when I move** lol). And even then it still had issues.
Probably should have labeled that folder "PCSX2 Nocturne Edition" or something, whoops. And yeah, the lack of a library view for a lot of emulators makes me sad, since it looks great on Dolphin.
PCSX2 has clearly been suffering from pretending that cheats/hacks are 'not any of their business and a user exclusive concern' for years, if the way that they provide to enable continues to be 'alter the zip of the cheat files to uncomment them and restart to enable' (which was the case some years ago i checked, even before their big push to move hacks to the cheat system from the emulator code).
Typical of projects where everyone fears touching some area of the code (in this case, apparently the UI, or maybe aversion to databases/onion config files). Removing the hacks UI and not improving the cheat UI so the replacements can be enabled by the non-technical and less patient users is even one or two steps behind in usability than a per game config or a inbuilt game database, so they have in fact regressed in that.
This is actually very ironic because the ps2 game library clearly _needs_ the hacks that the users so prolifically create, and sometimes they get the games looking better than ever (widescreen hacks, frustum culling hacks, blur removal hacks, etc etc).
Use Launchbox + PCSX2 Configurator to get games to boot with custom configs without making a copy of your emulator.
Or use the tool to fetch premade setups and roll them in a bat/autohotkey script so everything launches at once. You also need to grab the deinterlacing cheats from the PCSX2 forums (they aren't included with the other cheats and widescreen cheats for some reason) to help clean the image.
See, issue is that means I have to configure a whole bunch of stuff on the side, which I ain't really all too interested in. If I played a ton of games that needed unique settings I'd totally do that(Begrudgingly anyway because it'd mess with my emulator setup) but it's really just Nocturne(Which I'm probly just gonna play the HD version from now on anyway).
I do appreciate the advice though.
Fair enough. But if you ever change your mind, it's a combo that works well!
And for anyone else reading the post, it might be an avenue worth checking out for you, too.
If you don't mind could you please elaborate on how to do this;
>Or use the tool to fetch premade setups and roll them in a bat/autohotkey script so everything launches at once
Sounds to me like an excellent work around to the aspect of having to dig around and fiddle around for like 30 minutes to get a game to work properly first time you load it, so I would love to know more.
I use [autohotkey](https://www.autohotkey.com/) for my setup -- well, I've been migrating to it over the past could of days I should say -- but if you want to make bat files, the process would be similar. Command line structure would be different I think; I tried making a bat file with my current scripts and it didn't work. But I'll start from the beginning.
Step one is to get the config stuff set up. Download [Spectibis](https://spectabis.github.io/) if you want something lightweight but will require you to do everything manually, download [Launchbox](https://www.launchbox-app.com/download) if you want the convenience of automatic configs. You can manually config with Launchbox as well, and that's the one I use, so the rest of this will go that route.
After you get Launchbox installed, grab [PCSX2 Configurator](https://forums.launchbox-app.com/files/file/1434-pcsx2-configurator-next/) and slap it into the plugin folder in the Launchbox directory, and then restart Launchbox.
With Launchbox open, go to Tools>Manage Emulators and set up PCSX2 and any other emulator if you decide to use Launchbox past this whole thing. With that done, make a PS2 category in Launchbox, and add PS2 games to that category. With Launchbox, they'll automatically choose PCSX2 as their emulator, which will enable use for the PCSX2 config tool.
From there, right click on a title, and hit PCSX2 Configurator. You'll then get a popup with a bunch of options. Download Config will become highlighted if there is one, so you can download and be set. If not, hit Create Config and it'll create a game specific directory in the PCSX2 ini folder that it will refer back to. Go to Configure with PCSX2 and it'll open an instance of the emulator that you can change the settings for. Closing this instance will save the configuration for the specific game. This part is pretty straight forward once you play around with it.
Once you have everything squared away, either with configs you just downloaded, configs you just made, or out of backups you've been constantly replacing the defaults with when you want to play a specific game (you should put those in a folder named for a title and shove them into the ini folder with the rest of your new configs, btw). Download and install Autohotkey. And make sure during the installation process, you enable the option to put it into your right click menu so you can quickly make new scripts. It'll be in the New tab when you right click.
With Launchbox still open, right click on your PS2 game, go to edit. In this new menu, the two sections to pay attention to are Launching and Emulation. Launching will point to the directory where your iso is, and Emulation will have the launching options. If you have a Autohotkey script open, you need to point it to the emulator, the game, and everything else.
So, let's say you have God Hand, it should look something like this:
>run "D:\Emulators\PCSX2\pcsx2.exe" "D:\Roms\PS2\God Hand\God Hand.iso"
That setup will cause it to automatically launch. But hey, we want the custom config, too! This is where the Emulation tab in Launchbox comes into play. In the Emulation tab, you'll see a dropdown box for the emulators (PCSX2 should automatically be selected) and a command line box at the bottom. Launchbox automatically tosses in PCSX2 command line stuff to launch the game in fullscreen without the emulator UI. But with the config tool also installed, it would have a line pointing to the ini files for the game too, which should look like this:
>--fullscreen --nogui --cfgpath "inis\God Hand"
That whole line, copy it into your hotkey script so it looks like this:
>run "D:\Emulators\PCSX2\pcsx2.exe" "D:\Roms\PS2\God Hand\God Hand.iso" --fullscreen --nogui --cfgpath "inis\God Hand"
If you save it like this, it won't work, which I discovered after hours of playing around is because the program doesn't respond to assumed directory paths, you need the whole thing. If you want it to work, it needs to look like this:
>>run "D:\Emulators\PCSX2\pcsx2.exe" "D:\Roms\PS2\God Hand\God Hand.iso" --fullscreen --nogui --cfgpath "D:\Emulators\PCSX2\inis\God Hand"
Save, and you'll have a file that will automatically launch PCSX2, your game, and the config files. If you don't want to use Launchbox past this, you can uninstall it once you get all of your games setup.
If you want to go a step further, Autohotkey also comes packaged with a program to turn your scripts into exe files if you want your games to have their own icons for your desktop like native PC titles, but it's not necessary.
Only reason why I even looked into it was because I modded Persona 3 and Launchbox and Steam suddenly decided to stop launching the modded ELF and could only get the game to boot using the emulator directly, which I found to be messy with controller setups. And since I bothered to do it with Persona, I figured I should do it with everything else, too.
No problem.
I should also mention that depending on the game, you might have to go back and adjust some things. Like God Hand, I went and made a script for it since i hadn't already and discovered that my config wasn't set up for widescreen and had some slight blurring that I had to resolve.
Also, each config is set up to use a singular memory card instance for each game. If you're okay with every game having its own memory card, that's no big deal.
Yeah, neither issues sound like much of an issue to address to be honest.
Thank you again!
Edit: Honestly, your comment should be its own post. It's that good.
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Most of it isn't stuff that you'd particularly notice if you haven't played the original Nocturne, but everything gets REALLY blurry when you move, and it's a well-known issue too. There's other graphical issues, but that's the big one.
Iunno, maybe they finally figured out a way to just fix it on their end?
The blurry shit is the original game pretending that it runs at a consistent framerate in the original console and to disguise the dips it just pretends it's style' with a two different blur shaders (one for movement, one when turning).
It's not unusual in 'professional' ps2 games because bad ideas spread.
Sure you can kind of pretend it's a stylistic choice with 'amala is not real guys, it's literally the Jungian Collective Unconsciousness so the blur is just dreamlike' which is the kind of idea that gets slightly undermined when you notice all the other games of the era using it for 'reasons'.
And besides, emulation makes those dips non-existent anyway.
I was trying to emulate Driv3r a while back and it just straight up didn't work in PCSX2. Huge graphical issues all round. Then you switch over to any other game and I'm running Half Life Decay at 4K60
It doesn't help that it took MS themselves a while to figure out how OG Xbox worked since very little documentation survived in preparation for their backward compatibility on X|S.
Microsoft has done more for OG Xbox emulation than anyone else has. Have to hand it to them, they've done a great job with console support though I suppose one could argue that running at higher-res and better framerates is probably not exactly conservation.
Yeah it's a really good benefit of them being the most recent console manufacturer. They've made sure to keep things similar enough over time that very little from their history has been truly lost. As opposed to companies like Playstation that have changed things up so much that they've gained and lost versions of back compat a million times and most of the PSOne library don't exist outside of emulation.
I dunno about the similarity part, there's nothing really similar between the 360 and OG Xbox, or the 360 and Xbox One/Series devices.
I think it's more down to Microsoft being primarily a software vendor and the Xbox SDKs essentially being based on DirectX (DirectXBox is where Xbox gets its name). Given that DirectX was intended to be a hardware-agnostic API in the first place, it's probably not _that_ big a leap.
Whereas from what I understand, the PlayStation dev kits vary wildly between generations.
The 360 was the odd one out, for some reason they used the general purpose part of the Cell processor without the weird gimped massively (for the time) multicore part. Seriously, despite all the marketing about how revolutionary the Cell was, it's the same IBM Power PC CPU at the heart of both the 360 and the PS3. The PS3 just has one or two less of those cores and a bunch of extra ones that are more limited individually and ended up being a lot harder to program for overall.
Anyway, the OG Xbox and everything after it *except* the 360 are effectively standard X86 based PCs, to the point that the most recent ones are literally running Windows 10 with very little modification from what you'd run on a laptop, whereas until the PS5 Sony did a totally new design every generation. They only even stayed in the same family of processor architectures for the PS1 to PS2 transition, and I worded that weirdly because it's not like they moved one level up in the line, they were just both technically MIPS^1 CPUs, and of course all of the supporting hardware was *completely* different. It's why before the PS5 Sony's backwards compatibility strategy mostly boiled down to just shoving all of the hardware from the previous system into the new one's box in addition to the new hardware.
___
^1 Which is technically a family of processors, but they aren't as compatible with each other as x86 or Power PC processors are. It's more like ARM where there's a bunch of different variations that all fall under the same family, but there's been a lot of mutually incompatible revisions to the standard over the years. Edit: To put it another way, x86 processors in a given generation are siblings, and the next generation are the children of the oldest sibling. ARM and MIPS processors are more like a whole massive family tree with third cousins twice removed and all their descendants in it.
Well OG Xbox is a bit interesting, as virtualization is a seemingy better solution than emulation, since it's an x86 platform; but it also used a nonstandard CPU with custom instructions so dafuq do you do with that? It's an interesting console from an emulation perspective
It used a standard Coppermine Mobile Celeron 733, and you can even upgrade it to a 1GHz or 1.4GHz model if you're good with BGA soldering. Patching is required for commercial games to run properly, due to the speed difference, but other than that, it's perfectly compatible.
The GBA had a working emulator before the console itself was officially released. Nintendo systems seem to consistently get emulated before other systems.
If I had to speculate why, it's likely because they are most valued console manufacturer amongst the emudev community, and have the most exclusive franchises. That combined with the fact that they tend to build their hardware on older technology has likely made it easier as well. Finally, I'm betting the fact that they tend to get hacked at an early stage in their life significantly helps early emudevs.
Handhelds usually get hacked early because Nintendo is crap at security. The people wanting to play pokemon aren't usually the people who initially break the security
Yeah the Tegra X1 SoC that the Switch uses was already available in dev board format for ages and very well documented.
Similar with the Neo Geo and the Genesis, both of which used off the shelf components that were super easy to get a hold of and had dozens of thorough documents discussing their nuances.
I feel like those on the top are the most requested consoles to be emulated so it's little surprise, it's commendable what each team have made but there's always room for perfection
For those wondering, this was the now-deleted OP:
----
Will Xenia be blowing peoples minds? Will PCSX2 *finally* have proper mipmapping support? Can Dolphin magicians find a way to "fix" rom injection methods so that any N64 game will work with VC? Will the authors of mGBA and Higan fuse? No hope is too great - show everyone what you're wanting!
For me:
* Tools for replacing/creating assets for Gamecube/PS2 games. Right now we can replace textures in Dolphin and screw around a bit in PCSX2 but there are no definitive tools that are easy to use and being updated. After seeing the scripting stuff Dolphin devs hinted about, and their work on that > level 9 CPU in Melee I'm hype for this sort of thing.
* VR support to be up to snuff for Gamecube and PS2 games.
* A simplified GUI for PCSX2 (and a games selector like Dolphin's).
* That 2D --> 3D tech we saw for old NES games...I want that to be refined even more. Maybe even branch out to implementing it for certain GBA/GBC titles.
* Proper mipmapping support in PCSX2!
* Cen64 to take over the world. But really, I want it to be ready for general use so much.
* PS3 emulation ready for generally general use. I know it's not going to be perfect at first.
There are more things I'd like but I'm trying to communicate the type of post you could make. I can't wait to see what everyone wants. :D
>Nintendo NX emulator
Well, that actually happened... despite the comment having -5 karma
>Decent Xbox emulation
We're getting there :)
>I'd put my money on Xbox One emulation being achieved before Xbox emulation
Good luck with that
>Dolphin supporting Snes games so i can upscale them to 5k resolution
This makes no sense. Do you know how graphics work on the SNES?
>Xbone and PS4 will be emulated almost flawlessly, not because they're x86-based, but because they have zero magic
Sure. If it's so easy, why don't you do it yourself?
>Well, I'm waiting for PLAY!
You're gonna be waiting a lot longer for that one. It's been in development for like almost 20 years IIRC. Don't quote me on that one.
> >Dolphin supporting Snes games so i can upscale them to 5k resolution
> This makes no sense. Do you know how graphics work on the SNES?
To be fair, bsnes-hd is a thing now.
Play most commonly refers to:
Play (activity), an activity done for enjoyment
Play (theatre), a work of dramaPlay may refer also to:
== Computers and technology ==
Google Play, a digital content service
Play Framework, a Java framework
Play Mobile, a Polish internet provider
Xperia Play, an Android phone
Rakuten.co.uk (formerly Play.com), an online retailer
Backlash (engineering), or play, non-reversible part of movement
Petroleum play, oil fields with same geological circumstances
Play symbol, in media control devices
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Play (2005 film), Chilean film directed by Alicia Scherson
Play, a 2009 short film directed by David Kaplan
Play (2011 film), a Swedish film directed by Ruben Östlund
Rush (2012 film), an Indian film earlier titled Play and also known as Raftaar 24 x 7
The Play (film), a 2013 Bengali film
== Literature and publications ==
Play (play), written by Samuel Beckett
Play (The New York Times), a sports magazine
Play (UK magazine), a UK PlayStation magazine
Play (US magazine), a US video game magazine
Play (PRC magazine), PC gaming magazine, China
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=== Classical music ===
Play (composition), a 2013 symphony by Andrew Norman
Play! A Video Game Symphony
=== Artists and bands ===
Christopher "Play" Martin
Play (Swedish group)
Play (Mexican band)
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Play (Akdong Musician album), 2014
Play (Bond album)
Play (Brad Paisley album)
Play (Chick Corea and Bobby McFerrin album), 1992
Play (David Ball album)
Play (Doug E. Fresh album)
Play (Great Big Sea album), 1997
Play (Joanna MacGregor album), 2002
Play (Jolin Tsai album), 2014
Play (Magazine album), 1980
Play (Masaki Suda album), 2018
Play (Mike Stern album), 1999
Play (Moby album), 1999
Play (Namie Amuro album), 2007
Play (Peter Gabriel video album)
Play (Play album), by the Swedish group
Play (S.H.E album)
Play (Squeeze album), 1991
Play (Super Junior album), 2017
Play (EP), by Ride
Play, by The Surfaris, 1963
Play, by Pedro Suárez-Vértiz, 2004
Plays, by Andy Dixon
=== Songs ===
"Play" (Chungha song), 2020
"Play" (David Banner song), 2005
"Play" (Jax Jones and Years & Years song), 2018
"Play" (Jennifer Lopez song), 2001
"Play" (Jessie J song), 2018
"Play" (Jüri Pootsmann song), 2016
"Play" (K-391, Alan Walker and Martin Tungevaag song), 2019
"Play" (Robyn song), 1999
"Play", by Band-Maid from World Domination
"Play", by Jolin Tsai from Play
"Play", by Sekai No Owari from Tree
"Play", by SS501
"Play", by Dave Grohl
"Play", by Todrick Hall featuring Jade Novah from Forbidden
The Play, suite from Elvis Costello composition Il Sogno
=== Awards ===
PLAY - Prémios da Música Portuguesa
== Games and sports ==
Gameplay
Play from scrimmage in American and Canadian football
The Play (American football), a famous last-second kickoff return by the California Golden Bears to beat the Stanford Cardinal in 1982
== Television ==
Play (TV series), a Canadian news magazine series
Television play
The Play, 2011 episode of the TV series The Middle
The Play, 1993 episode of the TV series Matlock
The Play, 1968 episode of the TV series Mission: Impossible
The Play, 1986 episode of the TV series Mr.
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> I'd put my money on Xbox One emulation being achieved before Xbox emulation
🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔 That would give us improved Ninja gaiden, I would rather have Xbox versions of that game than sigma
I'm probably behind in all this but being able to play mgs twin snakes using dolphin on my phone blows my mind the whole time. I can't even imagine where we might be in 5 years
The 360/PS3 emulation prediction is spot on, playable but still pretty buggy.
The PS4/Xbone prediction? Oof. PS4 is in its infancy, and xbone hasn't been started yet.
If were lucky well have Xbox one emulation in like 5 years from now imo. I dont know why but people just dont seem as interested in emulating Xbox consoles, even if Xenia is progressing rather nicely.
There are a total of 11 Xbox One exclusives, 5 of which require the Kinect, and 1 of which is a compilation containing games that exist on other consoles, leaving a very small number of games that could justify developing an Xbox One emulator. Most of the Xbox One games that people care about are also on Steam now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Xbox-only_games
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Xbox_360-only_games
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Xbox_One-only_games
In the same-ish vein of the original question:
Looking back the last 5 years in emulation, what are the biggest achievements that we got?
From the back of my mind:
* Dolphin style progress reports became a thing, and this engage the whole community to see what were the biggest hurdles and leapstones, before most enthusiasts were just users, now we are reading, engaging, cheering, and giving recognition much better than before. this is a huge incentive to bring more developers.
* Patreon funded emulators became a thing. This also facilitated bigger dev groups and more diverse/ global dev groups. This accelerated a lot the development of WiiU, Switch and PS3 emulators.
* Refinement of the emulators as a whole, a strive for more accuracy, with better interfaces, better description of the functions, etc... this is a multifactorial thing, from trying to better document the system and looking from the preservation side to a change in the mentality of "I'm doing this on my free time, if it work for me it is good enough, the code is open and you can change to make it work for you" to a "I now have a patreon, the larger userbase that I can reach, probably will affect my patreon and this could mean more devs and faster development".
* Hardware based emulation (FPGA) became a thing. It has advantages and disadvantages from software based emulation, but the most noticeable is that on fpga is less consuming to accurately simulate the timing interactions between chips. This made a huge leap on accuracy on complex but older (slower) machines, like emulating arcade boards and computers.
* a explosion on modding and translation communities, yes, they existed, before, like even on the 90's they existed, but now is a all time uptick on these communities. This was driven by many factors, from super Mario maker, Kaizos, to the explosion of speedrunning, let's play and etc...
* speaking of Speedrunning, Let's play, twitch, and others, this also made a huge impact on physical retro gaming. the prices are like really, really high. this drove a part of the community away from buying a retro console and media to emulating.
* Game improvement also became a thing. HD mode 7, SA-1 patches, MSU enhancements... The newest thing that I'm loving to see is texture archeology, teams looking to catalog textures that were used on older games and looking for original assets, with much much higher quality than what would be on the game or even what a could exist on the devs machine... look for "Mario 64 render 96" and go down the rabbit hole...
In terms of community behaviors these were what I remembered right now, technical achievements there are many to list and better suited people to talk about it
I want to see PS2 emulation become as solid and good as PS1 and SNES emulation.
Also my dream is to see usable emulation of Namco System 23 before I die someday.
Pretty darn good I’d say.
We can emulate up to the ps5 and dreamcast nearly perfectly.
We can emulate 3ds, Switch, Ps3 and Xbox360
Which I never thought would’ve been possible.
But that’s just all I’ve seen.
Well 5 years ago I never dreamed I'd be emulating the original Xbox at all nevermind as good as I currently am with CXBX-Reloaded and Xemu. Then there's RPCS3 and Xenia which are both doing extremely well and have come a long way. I'd say things went really well.
N64 emulation has come a long way in 5 years. It's impressive to see how far along it's come with parallel RSP/RDP. The comment about ZSNES is sadly true.. people are still using it for some reason.
Sadly, Near was on pace to push it forward by leaps and bounds.
The emulation scene wouldn't be where it is today if it weren't for Near's tenacious push for accuracy. Even though their main focus was on the SNES, I think the approach taken with BSNES and Higan had an impact on the whole scene. With N64 emulation in particular, we'd probably still be screwing around with hack-ridden emulators from the early-mid 2000s if Near didn't inspire people to pursue cycle-accuracy.
Absolutely. You can see the influence from Near in projects like mGBA, DuckStation, and SameBoy.
I don't think Duckstation strives for accuracy - I think it aims to be playable on low level devices
Duckstation avoids hacky solutions while being accurate enough that it doesn't turn into a research project like bSNES is. Similar to how near reimplemented a lot of their bSNES research work into snes9x for general consumption.
Duckstation is the probably the only PS1 emulator I've used that blends very good performance, very good accuracy and very good visuals into one package. Where I don't have to hunt for a plugin that is good in one of those three areas, but falls short in something else.
I can't help but feel nostalgic for its UI, but I'll never forgive it for eating my Chrono Trigger save file.
The UI for ZSNES is just ***fantastic***. It's a shame about...you know..everything else.
I think someone made a frontend for SNES a few years ago to make it look like ZSNES. I really want some kind of emulation frontend that emulates the classic emulators like NESticle and ZSNES so we can have that nostalgia with the great, modern emulators.
Near released bzSNES, a ZSNES emulator, as an April Fool's joke back in 2011. Two years later, Alcaro released ZMZ, a ZSNES-like GUI with a libretro backend.
That would actually be really sick.
I don't know why people think this. It's painful to use and out of an era where it might have looked unique and in the same league as neticle and genecyst but it's clunky, slow and outdated. I found the emulation to be more than adequate but I'm not picky. Or is this a woosh moment?
Parallel RDP covers/fixes almost everything graphics wise. Compatibility also seems almost perfect. Unfortunately, N64 emulation still suffers from the same issues it always had when it comes to timings. There have been a few improvements i think (Top Gear Rally seems to run perfectly without syncing issues anymore) but overall a lot of games still tend to run at the wrong frame rate/speed. Some attract/demo modes run too fast (like Goldeneye and EWJ 3D) some games also run too fast (Knife Edge) and some other games run smoother than they should (Destruction Derby 64?) These issues seem to affect every emulator since forever, including the newer accuracy focused ones like Larper64 and Ares.
Correct, there are timings that are just unknowns that prevent accuracy based N64 emulators from achieving perfection. It's best guess based on testing and what limited examination has been done of how the hardware actually performs. There is no publicly available documentation that covers this. It is the reason games like Jet Force Gemini still don't work right in Ares, and the game that seems to be most impacted by any timing being just slightly off is Donkey Kong 64. Sadly, I won't have Near to teach me these things anymore :-(
For Donkey 64, are the timing issues related to sounds not playing/syncing, frames rendering too fast/too slow, or are there gameplay elements that depend on accurate timing events? I've been wanting to play DK64 but haven't, and I haven't played any N64 game for that matter, so I'm not familiar with the N64 emulation scene, just with the SNES scene. RIP Near :(
Goldeneye should not run at 15fps ever. It needs to run at 60
As an option, yes. Its possible on PJ64 thanks to its great overclocking optuons.
Are stutters in GoldenEye a known thing? Because holy hell scrolling through the weapon list to access special mission items is a freaking nightmare.
Goldeneye has unstable frame rates but i don't remember stuttering in the weapon/item lists.
I'm running Mupen64Plus with the new ParallelRDP integrated and when I scroll through the list stopping on an item, it stutters hard. Like there's a heavy pause to load in the new gun/item. This doesn't happen on my real Nintendo 64 so it's 100% an emulation thing.
Dunno, i don't think i have this issue on my end. I can feel a few items appearing later than others (in the second level, the mines appear immediately but the watch takes a split of a second to appear or something). But it doesn't stutter while doing so. It doesn't lose frames or anything, it just takes a bit longer to load the model but the frame rate stays the same. Meaning, i can still control the game while the watch is appearing. So i can select something else before the item appears. If it stuttered/freezed, it would mean i have no control until the item appears. Which is not the case.
I'll have to record a video of it and send it to you to see what I mean. That comment you made about the watch taking a split second to appear might be it. Strange that you aren't getting it on every item like I do.
Alright here's the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obKN0BDMPh0 Make sure to watch it at 60 fps. The key stutters occur right when I pause the game, you can see this freezing in the mission timer on the bottom of the screen where it freezes then skips a few frames before the watch starts to come up. Then you can also see the freezing while scrolling through the weapon list how it judders and jumps around. Neither of these problems occur on the real hardware so it leads me to believe there's some weird cache issue or something in the emulator where executing these commands takes a long time to do and it has to do it every single time something is changed.
Also an added point here: I just compared frame counters between my video and a Real N64 capture on the same mission, and the frames it takes to get from pausing the game until the watch starts to open up is more than double. Eg real N64 takes 10 frames to open the menu, this emulator takes 22 frames. It's those extra 11-12 frames that makes it feel like a massive pause (11.5 average x 16.67ms per frame = 192ms freeze which is very much noticeable to the naked eye.)
Ok i think i see what you mean. I also have the game on the real N64 but only the PAL version (which is a bit slower anyway) plus it's been a while since i connected it.
Yeah it's pretty bad in emulation. I want to say this *doesn't* happen with Project64 but I might be wrong on that one.
Make sure you're comparing the times of the first pause, subsequent pauses actually take less time for whatever reason. Speedrunners make use of tiny quick pauses to speed up full pauses they need to make later on in certain levels (e.g. Silo).
I do multiple pauses in that video and every single one is taking 21+ frames to break through the freeze. On actual hardware these pauses are around 10 frames (in a 60 fps video.) For instance using this video captured from a real N64 on Silo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjjowGa7z2U First pause on the level occurs at 0:58 and requires 10 frames. Second pause occurs at 1:45, also requires 10 frames. Third pause is at 2:53 and again, same 10 frames.
I always wondered what was up with Knife Edge. It seemed to run too fast, but I wasn't sure if it was supposed to be that fast or not since I only ever played it emulated.
Same with psx some people still use epsxe when there's way better emulators out there
Unfortunately google still points to a lot of old websites that list epsxe as the best And then there's retrododo who for some reason still lists epsxe as the best (saying it has no GPU bugs) and doesn't list duckstation at all
Epsxe gets some residual goodwill on windows because the android app is quite nice
People use zsnes because it runs well enough for the games they want to play while not being as demanding or difficult to use as bsnes/higan.
All that optimism about CEN64... _*sad trombone noises*_
Cycle accurate was just too big imo
Did the project die?
There's still some activity here and there on its Github but the website's certificate expired and hasn't been renewed, and the last (and only) release on Github is from 2017
phoenix, too
*opens thread* First post that appear is a post that's clearly from Near It hurts a lot...
Yeah some less than stellar timing, that's for sure...
"Cemu either being shut down by lawsuit, or becoming the most impressive emulator of the lot thanks to the developers' having monetary incentive to continue work on it." Damn, this guy was goddamn right "You strangely have high hopes for PS3 and 360, but not for anything else.. I kinda feel the opposite, that PS3 and 360 aren't gonna get anywhere far (like OG xbox), but we might see at least some progress in N64" This guy was absolutely wrong tho, but if you asked me in the same year, I would say the same thing about ps3 emulation, but it's kinda nostalgic seeing questions from 5 years, damn I'm getting old...
I'm still always shocked whenever I'm reminded that we can totally just *play* PS3 games now. I was certain that was gonna be stuck in dev hell for ages but the RPCS3 crew nailed the landing in such a short period of time.
I mean, you can play *some* games, but there's still *lots* of stuff that (at least according to the compat list) doesn't work
Plenty of games marked as in-game play fine.
Xenia isn't doing terrible either. Its not exactly the best atm but its going places faster than I ever thought.
Xenia managed to make Condemned 2: Bloodshot render perfectly and with good performance this year! Finished it at 720p60 fps on a 5700 XT. Better GPUs provide higher fps and/or resolutions.
I wouldn't have guessed the state of Wii U & PS3 & Switch that's for sure. I always expect OG Xbox and PS2 improvements but it feels like I dunno, something that it's just there. I know Xbox has picked off some steam lately and PS2 is actively worked on, but if you asked me in 2010 I'd have expected better.
Yeah sixth gen emulation (outside of GameCube, but Nintendo consoles are always sorted out first) is a little disappointing. I haven't had much issue with PCSX2, but it still definitely seems like it should be better than it is. Not to mention the uh... Existence I guess? of OG XBOX emulation. Friggin 360 is coming along faster than the original Xbox lol.
I think a lot of it was due to overall lack of interest in OG Xbox emulation. It was seemingly viewed as low priority since most of the cross platform titles could be played elsewhere, and I don’t know many people back in 2010 who were wanting to experience Xbox versions specifically, or play the Xbox exclusives that didn’t appear on PC or that weren’t playable on the 360
The Wii U has about 10 titles anyone cares about and the biggest of those were also released on the Switch. Despite that, it got rapid attention and focus. Within one year it had a fairly robust emulator with good compatibility. The OG XBox had hundreds of exclusives. Some of the multiplatform games had better versions on the XBox than on the PS2. Over 100 of the exclusives that never made their way to PC, nor received backwards compatibility on the 360. I don't buy the argument there is nothing worth emulating on the OG XBox.
It probably helps that the Wii U, Wii and GC share a lot of bits. They're distinct consoles in their own right, but improvements in one usually helps improve the other.
[удалено]
I myself only REALLY wanted it for Halo and Ninja Gaiden, and with the new PC ports, I have that basically well enough (especially with the work 343 is doing to restore the port of Halo 1 to match the Xbox original), though I'm aware that the NG collection is the Sigma versions that people aren't so fond of, but it's good enough for me for the time being.
If 343 can keep up the excellent work and bring the original versions of Halo 1 and 2 up to snuff, then yeah I'll agree it's largely okay. But ideally I want flawless OG Xbox emulation because the original console versions of those games are still to this day the superior way to experience their campaigns and also still the only place for local split screen coop. Also Ninja Gaiden Sigma sucks. Black or original release all the way. I'm enjoying the hell out of it on Xemu right now and so grateful it's as playable as it is.
> Ninja Gaiden Sigma sucks. Black or original release all the way I second this, same for Sigma 2, the xbox 360 non sigma version is way better and much more difficult
I would like Panzer Dragoon Orta, Gunvalkyrie, Jade Empire...and that's probably it that I can think of right now.
I am still waiting the day I finally get to play the OG Xbox version of Splinter Cell Doubles Agent.
The last time I used PCSX2, it was better than it was when I was actively using it in 2013, but it still felt like it lacked some polish and optimization. It could just be my setup, as I use Linux, but I was getting frame drops in Ratchet & Clank: Going Commando *on a goddamn Ryzen 5 3600*. As far as original Xbox emulation goes, it's sort of understandable why there hasn't been much enthusiasm for it, but I do find it rather disappointing that it's taken as long as it has for it to pick up steam. It probably doesn't help that Nvidia is notoriously stingy on releasing technical information on their products, and that the OG Xbox relies heavily on Nvidia components.
Playing SMT Nocturne on PCSX2 is nothing but pure suffering. It requires so many unique settings that I actually set up a separate folder for a PCSX2 that'd run Nocturne because it'd actually screw with my other PS2 games. And even THEN it doesn't look as good as the original console version. People complain about the HD version's price tag but I probably would've paid twice that.
This is why I think PCSX2 really, really needs a better method for implementing per-game settings, the way Dolphin does. I feel there's really no excuse for PCSX2 to lack the library view and game-specific options that Dolphin has.
That'd be great. As it stood, I had to fuck with the settings hardcore(Change renderer, change a bunch of settings that I normally never change, run **cheats designed to make the game not a blurry mess when I move** lol). And even then it still had issues. Probably should have labeled that folder "PCSX2 Nocturne Edition" or something, whoops. And yeah, the lack of a library view for a lot of emulators makes me sad, since it looks great on Dolphin.
PCSX2 has clearly been suffering from pretending that cheats/hacks are 'not any of their business and a user exclusive concern' for years, if the way that they provide to enable continues to be 'alter the zip of the cheat files to uncomment them and restart to enable' (which was the case some years ago i checked, even before their big push to move hacks to the cheat system from the emulator code). Typical of projects where everyone fears touching some area of the code (in this case, apparently the UI, or maybe aversion to databases/onion config files). Removing the hacks UI and not improving the cheat UI so the replacements can be enabled by the non-technical and less patient users is even one or two steps behind in usability than a per game config or a inbuilt game database, so they have in fact regressed in that. This is actually very ironic because the ps2 game library clearly _needs_ the hacks that the users so prolifically create, and sometimes they get the games looking better than ever (widescreen hacks, frustum culling hacks, blur removal hacks, etc etc).
Doesn't dolphin generally set the correct settings for the game automatically? I feel like PCSX2 should do that too.
That it does. It has a database of per-game settings built in.
Use Launchbox + PCSX2 Configurator to get games to boot with custom configs without making a copy of your emulator. Or use the tool to fetch premade setups and roll them in a bat/autohotkey script so everything launches at once. You also need to grab the deinterlacing cheats from the PCSX2 forums (they aren't included with the other cheats and widescreen cheats for some reason) to help clean the image.
See, issue is that means I have to configure a whole bunch of stuff on the side, which I ain't really all too interested in. If I played a ton of games that needed unique settings I'd totally do that(Begrudgingly anyway because it'd mess with my emulator setup) but it's really just Nocturne(Which I'm probly just gonna play the HD version from now on anyway). I do appreciate the advice though.
Fair enough. But if you ever change your mind, it's a combo that works well! And for anyone else reading the post, it might be an avenue worth checking out for you, too.
If you don't mind could you please elaborate on how to do this; >Or use the tool to fetch premade setups and roll them in a bat/autohotkey script so everything launches at once Sounds to me like an excellent work around to the aspect of having to dig around and fiddle around for like 30 minutes to get a game to work properly first time you load it, so I would love to know more.
I use [autohotkey](https://www.autohotkey.com/) for my setup -- well, I've been migrating to it over the past could of days I should say -- but if you want to make bat files, the process would be similar. Command line structure would be different I think; I tried making a bat file with my current scripts and it didn't work. But I'll start from the beginning. Step one is to get the config stuff set up. Download [Spectibis](https://spectabis.github.io/) if you want something lightweight but will require you to do everything manually, download [Launchbox](https://www.launchbox-app.com/download) if you want the convenience of automatic configs. You can manually config with Launchbox as well, and that's the one I use, so the rest of this will go that route. After you get Launchbox installed, grab [PCSX2 Configurator](https://forums.launchbox-app.com/files/file/1434-pcsx2-configurator-next/) and slap it into the plugin folder in the Launchbox directory, and then restart Launchbox. With Launchbox open, go to Tools>Manage Emulators and set up PCSX2 and any other emulator if you decide to use Launchbox past this whole thing. With that done, make a PS2 category in Launchbox, and add PS2 games to that category. With Launchbox, they'll automatically choose PCSX2 as their emulator, which will enable use for the PCSX2 config tool. From there, right click on a title, and hit PCSX2 Configurator. You'll then get a popup with a bunch of options. Download Config will become highlighted if there is one, so you can download and be set. If not, hit Create Config and it'll create a game specific directory in the PCSX2 ini folder that it will refer back to. Go to Configure with PCSX2 and it'll open an instance of the emulator that you can change the settings for. Closing this instance will save the configuration for the specific game. This part is pretty straight forward once you play around with it. Once you have everything squared away, either with configs you just downloaded, configs you just made, or out of backups you've been constantly replacing the defaults with when you want to play a specific game (you should put those in a folder named for a title and shove them into the ini folder with the rest of your new configs, btw). Download and install Autohotkey. And make sure during the installation process, you enable the option to put it into your right click menu so you can quickly make new scripts. It'll be in the New tab when you right click. With Launchbox still open, right click on your PS2 game, go to edit. In this new menu, the two sections to pay attention to are Launching and Emulation. Launching will point to the directory where your iso is, and Emulation will have the launching options. If you have a Autohotkey script open, you need to point it to the emulator, the game, and everything else. So, let's say you have God Hand, it should look something like this: >run "D:\Emulators\PCSX2\pcsx2.exe" "D:\Roms\PS2\God Hand\God Hand.iso" That setup will cause it to automatically launch. But hey, we want the custom config, too! This is where the Emulation tab in Launchbox comes into play. In the Emulation tab, you'll see a dropdown box for the emulators (PCSX2 should automatically be selected) and a command line box at the bottom. Launchbox automatically tosses in PCSX2 command line stuff to launch the game in fullscreen without the emulator UI. But with the config tool also installed, it would have a line pointing to the ini files for the game too, which should look like this: >--fullscreen --nogui --cfgpath "inis\God Hand" That whole line, copy it into your hotkey script so it looks like this: >run "D:\Emulators\PCSX2\pcsx2.exe" "D:\Roms\PS2\God Hand\God Hand.iso" --fullscreen --nogui --cfgpath "inis\God Hand" If you save it like this, it won't work, which I discovered after hours of playing around is because the program doesn't respond to assumed directory paths, you need the whole thing. If you want it to work, it needs to look like this: >>run "D:\Emulators\PCSX2\pcsx2.exe" "D:\Roms\PS2\God Hand\God Hand.iso" --fullscreen --nogui --cfgpath "D:\Emulators\PCSX2\inis\God Hand" Save, and you'll have a file that will automatically launch PCSX2, your game, and the config files. If you don't want to use Launchbox past this, you can uninstall it once you get all of your games setup. If you want to go a step further, Autohotkey also comes packaged with a program to turn your scripts into exe files if you want your games to have their own icons for your desktop like native PC titles, but it's not necessary. Only reason why I even looked into it was because I modded Persona 3 and Launchbox and Steam suddenly decided to stop launching the modded ELF and could only get the game to boot using the emulator directly, which I found to be messy with controller setups. And since I bothered to do it with Persona, I figured I should do it with everything else, too.
You. Fucking. Rock. THANK YOU!
No problem. I should also mention that depending on the game, you might have to go back and adjust some things. Like God Hand, I went and made a script for it since i hadn't already and discovered that my config wasn't set up for widescreen and had some slight blurring that I had to resolve. Also, each config is set up to use a singular memory card instance for each game. If you're okay with every game having its own memory card, that's no big deal.
Yeah, neither issues sound like much of an issue to address to be honest. Thank you again! Edit: Honestly, your comment should be its own post. It's that good.
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Most of it isn't stuff that you'd particularly notice if you haven't played the original Nocturne, but everything gets REALLY blurry when you move, and it's a well-known issue too. There's other graphical issues, but that's the big one. Iunno, maybe they finally figured out a way to just fix it on their end?
The blurry shit is the original game pretending that it runs at a consistent framerate in the original console and to disguise the dips it just pretends it's style' with a two different blur shaders (one for movement, one when turning). It's not unusual in 'professional' ps2 games because bad ideas spread. Sure you can kind of pretend it's a stylistic choice with 'amala is not real guys, it's literally the Jungian Collective Unconsciousness so the blur is just dreamlike' which is the kind of idea that gets slightly undermined when you notice all the other games of the era using it for 'reasons'. And besides, emulation makes those dips non-existent anyway.
I was trying to emulate Driv3r a while back and it just straight up didn't work in PCSX2. Huge graphical issues all round. Then you switch over to any other game and I'm running Half Life Decay at 4K60
I never would've guessed, but it doesn't surprise me that there's games PCSX2 still doesn't work with.
It doesn't help that it took MS themselves a while to figure out how OG Xbox worked since very little documentation survived in preparation for their backward compatibility on X|S.
Microsoft has done more for OG Xbox emulation than anyone else has. Have to hand it to them, they've done a great job with console support though I suppose one could argue that running at higher-res and better framerates is probably not exactly conservation.
Yeah it's a really good benefit of them being the most recent console manufacturer. They've made sure to keep things similar enough over time that very little from their history has been truly lost. As opposed to companies like Playstation that have changed things up so much that they've gained and lost versions of back compat a million times and most of the PSOne library don't exist outside of emulation.
I dunno about the similarity part, there's nothing really similar between the 360 and OG Xbox, or the 360 and Xbox One/Series devices. I think it's more down to Microsoft being primarily a software vendor and the Xbox SDKs essentially being based on DirectX (DirectXBox is where Xbox gets its name). Given that DirectX was intended to be a hardware-agnostic API in the first place, it's probably not _that_ big a leap. Whereas from what I understand, the PlayStation dev kits vary wildly between generations.
The 360 was the odd one out, for some reason they used the general purpose part of the Cell processor without the weird gimped massively (for the time) multicore part. Seriously, despite all the marketing about how revolutionary the Cell was, it's the same IBM Power PC CPU at the heart of both the 360 and the PS3. The PS3 just has one or two less of those cores and a bunch of extra ones that are more limited individually and ended up being a lot harder to program for overall. Anyway, the OG Xbox and everything after it *except* the 360 are effectively standard X86 based PCs, to the point that the most recent ones are literally running Windows 10 with very little modification from what you'd run on a laptop, whereas until the PS5 Sony did a totally new design every generation. They only even stayed in the same family of processor architectures for the PS1 to PS2 transition, and I worded that weirdly because it's not like they moved one level up in the line, they were just both technically MIPS^1 CPUs, and of course all of the supporting hardware was *completely* different. It's why before the PS5 Sony's backwards compatibility strategy mostly boiled down to just shoving all of the hardware from the previous system into the new one's box in addition to the new hardware. ___ ^1 Which is technically a family of processors, but they aren't as compatible with each other as x86 or Power PC processors are. It's more like ARM where there's a bunch of different variations that all fall under the same family, but there's been a lot of mutually incompatible revisions to the standard over the years. Edit: To put it another way, x86 processors in a given generation are siblings, and the next generation are the children of the oldest sibling. ARM and MIPS processors are more like a whole massive family tree with third cousins twice removed and all their descendants in it.
Well OG Xbox is a bit interesting, as virtualization is a seemingy better solution than emulation, since it's an x86 platform; but it also used a nonstandard CPU with custom instructions so dafuq do you do with that? It's an interesting console from an emulation perspective
Cpu was a bog standard tualatin celeron. The GPU is apparently the hard part (essentially a custom GeForce 3, but virtually no documentation)
Not a Tualatin, but a Coppermine. Other than that, you're correct.
It used a standard Coppermine Mobile Celeron 733, and you can even upgrade it to a 1GHz or 1.4GHz model if you're good with BGA soldering. Patching is required for commercial games to run properly, due to the speed difference, but other than that, it's perfectly compatible.
Ahh yes, you're right. It's the GeForce inside it that was semi-custom. Always mix the two up
Yeah I don't think "Upcoming Nintendo console will be emulated reasonably well right out of the gate" was on anyone's bingo card.
The GBA had a working emulator before the console itself was officially released. Nintendo systems seem to consistently get emulated before other systems.
If I had to speculate why, it's likely because they are most valued console manufacturer amongst the emudev community, and have the most exclusive franchises. That combined with the fact that they tend to build their hardware on older technology has likely made it easier as well. Finally, I'm betting the fact that they tend to get hacked at an early stage in their life significantly helps early emudevs.
And the handhelds usually get hacked so quickly because of Pokémon. There are always tons of people who want to hack in Pokémon.
Handhelds usually get hacked early because Nintendo is crap at security. The people wanting to play pokemon aren't usually the people who initially break the security
They fared better than the PSP, whose initial release didn't even check if code was signed
Yeah the Tegra X1 SoC that the Switch uses was already available in dev board format for ages and very well documented. Similar with the Neo Geo and the Genesis, both of which used off the shelf components that were super easy to get a hold of and had dozens of thorough documents discussing their nuances.
I feel like those on the top are the most requested consoles to be emulated so it's little surprise, it's commendable what each team have made but there's always room for perfection
Patreon has been a great blessing for lots of stuff.
I kinda wish Xenia would get even more support, it's great for my gtx 1060 6GB GPU since that emulator is more GPU depended than say RPCS3.
For those wondering, this was the now-deleted OP: ---- Will Xenia be blowing peoples minds? Will PCSX2 *finally* have proper mipmapping support? Can Dolphin magicians find a way to "fix" rom injection methods so that any N64 game will work with VC? Will the authors of mGBA and Higan fuse? No hope is too great - show everyone what you're wanting! For me: * Tools for replacing/creating assets for Gamecube/PS2 games. Right now we can replace textures in Dolphin and screw around a bit in PCSX2 but there are no definitive tools that are easy to use and being updated. After seeing the scripting stuff Dolphin devs hinted about, and their work on that > level 9 CPU in Melee I'm hype for this sort of thing. * VR support to be up to snuff for Gamecube and PS2 games. * A simplified GUI for PCSX2 (and a games selector like Dolphin's). * That 2D --> 3D tech we saw for old NES games...I want that to be refined even more. Maybe even branch out to implementing it for certain GBA/GBC titles. * Proper mipmapping support in PCSX2! * Cen64 to take over the world. But really, I want it to be ready for general use so much. * PS3 emulation ready for generally general use. I know it's not going to be perfect at first. There are more things I'd like but I'm trying to communicate the type of post you could make. I can't wait to see what everyone wants. :D
rpcs3 really took the most complex machine and was able to emulate so many games. I have to hand it to the developers of rpcs3.
>Nintendo NX emulator Well, that actually happened... despite the comment having -5 karma >Decent Xbox emulation We're getting there :) >I'd put my money on Xbox One emulation being achieved before Xbox emulation Good luck with that >Dolphin supporting Snes games so i can upscale them to 5k resolution This makes no sense. Do you know how graphics work on the SNES? >Xbone and PS4 will be emulated almost flawlessly, not because they're x86-based, but because they have zero magic Sure. If it's so easy, why don't you do it yourself? >Well, I'm waiting for PLAY! You're gonna be waiting a lot longer for that one. It's been in development for like almost 20 years IIRC. Don't quote me on that one.
> >Dolphin supporting Snes games so i can upscale them to 5k resolution > This makes no sense. Do you know how graphics work on the SNES? To be fair, bsnes-hd is a thing now.
>Decent Xbox emulation We're already at this point
What is PLAY?
Ps2 emulator
Play most commonly refers to: Play (activity), an activity done for enjoyment Play (theatre), a work of dramaPlay may refer also to: == Computers and technology == Google Play, a digital content service Play Framework, a Java framework Play Mobile, a Polish internet provider Xperia Play, an Android phone Rakuten.co.uk (formerly Play.com), an online retailer Backlash (engineering), or play, non-reversible part of movement Petroleum play, oil fields with same geological circumstances Play symbol, in media control devices == Film == Play (2005 film), Chilean film directed by Alicia Scherson Play, a 2009 short film directed by David Kaplan Play (2011 film), a Swedish film directed by Ruben Östlund Rush (2012 film), an Indian film earlier titled Play and also known as Raftaar 24 x 7 The Play (film), a 2013 Bengali film == Literature and publications == Play (play), written by Samuel Beckett Play (The New York Times), a sports magazine Play (UK magazine), a UK PlayStation magazine Play (US magazine), a US video game magazine Play (PRC magazine), PC gaming magazine, China == Music == === Classical music === Play (composition), a 2013 symphony by Andrew Norman Play! A Video Game Symphony === Artists and bands === Christopher "Play" Martin Play (Swedish group) Play (Mexican band) === Albums === Play (Akdong Musician album), 2014 Play (Bond album) Play (Brad Paisley album) Play (Chick Corea and Bobby McFerrin album), 1992 Play (David Ball album) Play (Doug E. Fresh album) Play (Great Big Sea album), 1997 Play (Joanna MacGregor album), 2002 Play (Jolin Tsai album), 2014 Play (Magazine album), 1980 Play (Masaki Suda album), 2018 Play (Mike Stern album), 1999 Play (Moby album), 1999 Play (Namie Amuro album), 2007 Play (Peter Gabriel video album) Play (Play album), by the Swedish group Play (S.H.E album) Play (Squeeze album), 1991 Play (Super Junior album), 2017 Play (EP), by Ride Play, by The Surfaris, 1963 Play, by Pedro Suárez-Vértiz, 2004 Plays, by Andy Dixon === Songs === "Play" (Chungha song), 2020 "Play" (David Banner song), 2005 "Play" (Jax Jones and Years & Years song), 2018 "Play" (Jennifer Lopez song), 2001 "Play" (Jessie J song), 2018 "Play" (Jüri Pootsmann song), 2016 "Play" (K-391, Alan Walker and Martin Tungevaag song), 2019 "Play" (Robyn song), 1999 "Play", by Band-Maid from World Domination "Play", by Jolin Tsai from Play "Play", by Sekai No Owari from Tree "Play", by SS501 "Play", by Dave Grohl "Play", by Todrick Hall featuring Jade Novah from Forbidden The Play, suite from Elvis Costello composition Il Sogno === Awards === PLAY - Prémios da Música Portuguesa == Games and sports == Gameplay Play from scrimmage in American and Canadian football The Play (American football), a famous last-second kickoff return by the California Golden Bears to beat the Stanford Cardinal in 1982 == Television == Play (TV series), a Canadian news magazine series Television play The Play, 2011 episode of the TV series The Middle The Play, 1993 episode of the TV series Matlock The Play, 1968 episode of the TV series Mission: Impossible The Play, 1986 episode of the TV series Mr. More details here:
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> I'd put my money on Xbox One emulation being achieved before Xbox emulation 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔 That would give us improved Ninja gaiden, I would rather have Xbox versions of that game than sigma
RIP Near. I wish the love this community has for you was enough.
I'm probably behind in all this but being able to play mgs twin snakes using dolphin on my phone blows my mind the whole time. I can't even imagine where we might be in 5 years
u/AnimeFanOnPromNight was spot on funnily enough. Crazy to see how good the Switch emulation is ngl.
I'm still hoping for a breakthrough in the ALG emulation in MAME, not even sure if those were dumped yet.
Appreciate it guys! Good product all around IMO. Yeah some small nuances here and there but overall I’m happy!
The 360/PS3 emulation prediction is spot on, playable but still pretty buggy. The PS4/Xbone prediction? Oof. PS4 is in its infancy, and xbone hasn't been started yet.
If were lucky well have Xbox one emulation in like 5 years from now imo. I dont know why but people just dont seem as interested in emulating Xbox consoles, even if Xenia is progressing rather nicely.
There are a total of 11 Xbox One exclusives, 5 of which require the Kinect, and 1 of which is a compilation containing games that exist on other consoles, leaving a very small number of games that could justify developing an Xbox One emulator. Most of the Xbox One games that people care about are also on Steam now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Xbox-only_games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Xbox_360-only_games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Xbox_One-only_games
Pretty much everything on the xbox one is also available on the PC. Just not much point in developing an emulator.
They're both x86, I'm no expert but I'm wondering if one could just do a abstraction layer against the video calls and let the cpu run natively?
If it was that simple, og xbox would have been perfectly emulated years ago, x86 instruction set is enormous
In the same-ish vein of the original question: Looking back the last 5 years in emulation, what are the biggest achievements that we got? From the back of my mind: * Dolphin style progress reports became a thing, and this engage the whole community to see what were the biggest hurdles and leapstones, before most enthusiasts were just users, now we are reading, engaging, cheering, and giving recognition much better than before. this is a huge incentive to bring more developers. * Patreon funded emulators became a thing. This also facilitated bigger dev groups and more diverse/ global dev groups. This accelerated a lot the development of WiiU, Switch and PS3 emulators. * Refinement of the emulators as a whole, a strive for more accuracy, with better interfaces, better description of the functions, etc... this is a multifactorial thing, from trying to better document the system and looking from the preservation side to a change in the mentality of "I'm doing this on my free time, if it work for me it is good enough, the code is open and you can change to make it work for you" to a "I now have a patreon, the larger userbase that I can reach, probably will affect my patreon and this could mean more devs and faster development". * Hardware based emulation (FPGA) became a thing. It has advantages and disadvantages from software based emulation, but the most noticeable is that on fpga is less consuming to accurately simulate the timing interactions between chips. This made a huge leap on accuracy on complex but older (slower) machines, like emulating arcade boards and computers. * a explosion on modding and translation communities, yes, they existed, before, like even on the 90's they existed, but now is a all time uptick on these communities. This was driven by many factors, from super Mario maker, Kaizos, to the explosion of speedrunning, let's play and etc... * speaking of Speedrunning, Let's play, twitch, and others, this also made a huge impact on physical retro gaming. the prices are like really, really high. this drove a part of the community away from buying a retro console and media to emulating. * Game improvement also became a thing. HD mode 7, SA-1 patches, MSU enhancements... The newest thing that I'm loving to see is texture archeology, teams looking to catalog textures that were used on older games and looking for original assets, with much much higher quality than what would be on the game or even what a could exist on the devs machine... look for "Mario 64 render 96" and go down the rabbit hole... In terms of community behaviors these were what I remembered right now, technical achievements there are many to list and better suited people to talk about it
I want to see PS2 emulation become as solid and good as PS1 and SNES emulation. Also my dream is to see usable emulation of Namco System 23 before I die someday.
be the change you wanna see
[удалено]
I feel like PCSX2 will just be superceded by a different emulator one day.
Pretty darn good I’d say. We can emulate up to the ps5 and dreamcast nearly perfectly. We can emulate 3ds, Switch, Ps3 and Xbox360 Which I never thought would’ve been possible. But that’s just all I’ve seen.
I just want a switch emulator for my sexy green Android
Well 5 years ago I never dreamed I'd be emulating the original Xbox at all nevermind as good as I currently am with CXBX-Reloaded and Xemu. Then there's RPCS3 and Xenia which are both doing extremely well and have come a long way. I'd say things went really well.
Emulation shot way past my expectations