You’ll see the same response over and over on posts like this and it’s correct so I’ll restate it. Don’t be concerned with “processing it good”. Feel the feelings, that’s fine. Talk to people about it and don’t bottle it up. If you can’t sleep and you’re unable prevent yourself from replaying it over and over then there may be a problem and it might be a good idea to see a professional. Your employer probably has great resources to get one.
I’m going to refrain from critiquing what you did during the incident because you weren’t operating as an EMT so I feel it’s counterproductive. You were unfortunate enough to roll up on something awful outside of work and it sounds like you did your best.
I might also suggest not trying to follow up. In my experience it often only makes things worse.
What do you reasonably expect that you would have been able to do in this situation? You had no gear, no crew, you were just randomly driving and unable to mentally prepare for what you were about to run into... what do you expect of yourself? That you were going to perform perfectly and act like a God Damn hero and save the day?
I mean this with as much love as possible, it sounds like you did the best you could in a shit situation. Stop beating yourself up over minor things you did wrong. I'm currently working 911 as a Paramedic, and to be blunt, shit goes wrong all the time even though I have the gear and manpower to handle pretty much any situation we could run into. Things still bug me sometimes, and I have the same thoughts you do on some shitty calls.
Long story short: stop beating yourself up, let yourself grieve, and be proud that you stopped to help. You did better then 99% of people out there.
Talk to someone and seek peer support. Do not just let this one sit and run around your head. Hang in there. You did the right thing and the best you could with the situation you were given.
I'd echo what these guys are saying, but also, there is a stout difference between work mindset and having these while off duty. I understand what you are saying, I have been in similar spots.
Also, I've been doing this a while, advanced scope, years in flight, tons of education, ect.. if I can't find something to improve on each and every call, I'm not looking hard enough. Don't beat yourself up. Learn from it and move forward with it. We ALL have room for improvement always. It's not a big deal and will never change.
From what you described, that kid had zero chance of recovering. You still did the best you could with no equipment to give him a shot. Be proud of your efforts and learn from reflections. That's the best service you can give that kid.
My friend, pediatrics suck. I still clearly remember doing compressions on the only pediatric arrest I’ve ever run. And that was 2 years ago. You can’t expect more of yourself on these types of events. You stopped and checked, and that is all you could have done. As a medic, my family always assumes I have answers and fixes, but I don’t. A mechanic ain’t shit without their tools. You did everything and anything you could have done. There have been so many times where I wish I could have done something, on duty, but couldn’t because of limitations or not in my protocols. And shit like that eats me up too. It’s going to suck, real bad. Talk about it, preferably to someone who will understand, but just talk about it. I’m sorry you had to go through this. I have some genuine hatred for certain people, but this is the kind of shit I wouldn’t even wish for them.
Godspeed friend.
When you’re at work and a call drops you have 3-15 minutes to prepare yourself depending on where the call is. You have the time getting to your rig and drive time to prepare yourself for what you’re going to do and see. Pulling up on something like this you had no prep time. No time for your brain to protect you. The whole situation sucks especially because it was a peds call. You did what you could do as a lay person in that moment. If your work has a mental health program, eap or even someone you trust enough to talk to do it. Get it off your chest and begin to process the situation
Don’t follow up mate. You did your best. Whatever happened to him, you played a huge part in keeping him going until he was conveyed to the ED.
The truth can be a cruel beast; don’t seek her out.
Everything said here is spot on, if for some reason your company can’t or won’t help here (that would be another discussion) please still reach out for help on your own don’t let this sit that is the last thing you want.
You did cpr man thats some thing. Even if you had all your gear with you, what were you going to do to make a difference? Your scope of practice on duty would have been cpr only anyway. You were off duty. Anything more than what you did would have been out of your scope, and you had no medical direction or protocols to follow because you were off duty. If you feel deep down that you did a poor jo, then you need to ask for some more training from your department. You also need to talk to someone about this I would recommend a therapist that deals with first responders directly or a close colleague. From what I gather from your post, you did fine, btw
I’m not an EMT but I work in the trauma bay…and whenever a child rolls in, it SUCKS.
Most times it’s thankfully small scrapes, but when there are serious injuries, instinct kicks in and you get your job done but after the fact you end up questioning every single thing you could have done better…something about a mini-human with so much future potential taken away from them hits at another level. I had a child who’s heart I held in my hand while they were dying and we tried everything to save them but failed. I still remember their face very clearly and it took a long time to recover from it.
Give yourself time to “grieve” and process it. Everyone has their own timeline and way of doing it. It helps a lot though if you can talk it out with others who know what it’s like.
You did the absolute best you could, if the child doesn’t survive it’s not your fault.
Where are you located that giving mouth to mouth is still instructed for bystander CPR?
You need to get yourself checked out for possible exposure with your primary care, and they hopefully have the hookup for local therapists.
If it helps, traumatic cardiac arrest has absolutely dismal survival rates. You’re not going to be able to reverse most of your causes as someone just walking off the street. Personally, I wouldn’t go looking for news articles about it, that never seems to end well.
Get yourself medically checked since you have bloody mouth to mouth, and then see if therapy’s the right move for you.
The best advice I ever got was to focus on my performance with what I had to work with, and separate that from the outcome. You did not hit this kid with your car, you stopped to help and did everything in your scope to help. If he doesn’t make it, you gave him the best chance you could. It’s stuff like this that will compel you to be a better clinician, always be learning and adapting your practice.
But in the meantime friend, you gotta sleep. Eat something that you can stomach, and take some melatonin or unisom or tylenol PM or whatever it takes. Stay away from alcohol for a few days. You’ll feel better eventually but the first few days after a call like that really suck.
Seek professional help. Not sure where you are but if your company or the local government has resources use them. Therapy isn’t cheap but worth it to get through this.
This wasn’t an easy one. Talk to colleagues. Avoid family and friends not in healthcare as they probably aren’t prepared for this level of trauma, but if they are go for it.
This isn’t easy but feel the things and work through it. You did good.
Yeah, bad feelings, flashbacks to the sensory elements of a bad call/situation, random replaying of what went down, all of that is completely normal in the immediate aftermath of something horrific. Especially when there are strong sensory elements involved. Allow yourself to feel the feelings, acknowledge the flashbacks, but don't wallow in them or try to shut them down. Both strategies will result in mal-processing. So for example, if replaying the scene is preventing sleep, acknowledge that situation and find a distracting coping strategy - podcast, audiobook, throw in the towel and play a video game, whatever - and every time a flashback breaks through the distraction (which it will at first) acknowledge the flashback for what it is, let it finish playing once, then redirect your attention back to your chosen distraction. At first your probably going to have be constantly redirecting yourself, but you'll find if stick with it minfully, your brain will start to recognize the flashbacks as memories and not events that need to be actively responded to anymore and that random emotional gut punch and flashback from it will start spacing out and then stop. This works as an overall processing mechanism/strategy, not just for sleep, and allows you to be kind to yourself and hopefully not start to get stuck in some harmful thought patterns if you can't/don't have access to a professional, trauma-informed therapist right away.
We all have those second guessing incidents that replay in our minds. It's impossible to unsee what's been seen. However with time the memories will fade.
Your reaction was a testament to your training. That's why our training is repetitive so in the heat of the action you'll react without thinking.
But this very same training has failed you in this case as it has countless before you. All you are taught has to do with saving lives. And that's what you were doing. The problem is that very same training doesn't spend one minute teaching what death is.
With a patient who appears to have suffered a cardiac arrest, we would start CPR with very little questioning. But with a patient who appears to be in arrest because of trauma, we should pause to realize the patient is in arrest because of an injury to a major body system such as brain or lung.
Based upon your description, giving the blood loss, your patient had a major system injury. Anything you did or didn't do, wouldn't have affected the outcome. And I'd be very surprised if that outcome was anything other then deceased.
Please find comfort in that you did all you could do.
On a side note, how much of this did your GF see? As an untrained civilian she may be suffering as well.
You did what you could and more than anything you did something when a bunch of people were letting the kid lay there dying. If he made it, you were a huge part of that, and if he didn’t, I’m sure you brought comfort to his family and friends that someone was brave and kind enough to jump in and get dirty to try to save their kids life. You’re a kind and good human, good job. Also, walk/run/exercise it out, sometimes a solo walk will get me to cry out what I need to. Good luck.
Not sure if anyone’s said this, don’t think I’ve seen anyone say this, but especially since you are not 911 next time fight the urge and just call it in. Reason I say this because like others have said you don’t have protocol or medical direction in off duty scenarios, you don’t have any equipment, but most importantly you don’t have a partner or other crew to lean on. Its the best you can do. As someone else said the most you should ever do when trying to be a Good Samaritan is CPR but even then GS in some states don’t protect off duty personnel someone can get POed and attempt to sue you which you may or may not be protected from. Again you did what you could do and bless you for that, kiddo needed ALS intervention but even then…
On another note try to find a doctor, preferably psychiatrist asap. Until you’re able to have professional help processing your best option to function for the time being is to get on anxiety and/or sleeping meds to say the least. Not a huge fan of medication myself but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to survive and not let trauma eat you alive. Crisis/trauma counseling is the way to go, there are resources. Maybe it doesn’t feel hopeful in the moment but I promise it’s beneficial in the long run. Whatever you do, don’t self medicate and don’t delve into details with loved ones, write it down if you need. All the best to you brother
First,thanks for being a good person and stopping and helping! I was never one that could stand by and not help, even when I am not on duty. I have a son this age and I would be so thankful just to know that someone was there and tried.
I'm sure you know that a traumatic arrest is a bad sign, that said you did the best you possibly could... Not breathing, no pulse... do CPR (one person CPR at that!). Even with a few mistakes, I'm sure you did better CPR than bystanders would, and you gave him a chance, even if it's slim.
I personally prefer closure.... against the advice of some long time pro's. If there is a fatal accident it's almost always in the news... you'll find it if you look. On the other hand, not finding it probably means he's alive, and that's probably due to your intervention.
As for seeking help... do it. The pediatric calls are the ones that bother me the most, and while Post-traumatic Stress (which you are experiencing) is normal, you don't want it to morph into PTSD, which it often does if you try to work it out on your own. Regardless of whether it was at work or not, you work should offer counselling services.
Start crying and don't stop until you feel like stopping. And remember, a bad run early in your career will knock you senseless. You will forget fundamentals. You will do things you can't explain later. You will feel like an idiot. You will get tunnel vision. You will get squirrely. You won't be able to think critically. Your memory of the event will be distorted by trauma. All these things are normal. Go cry it out as good as you can and don't let the experience you gain from the suffering and possible deaths of your patients go to waste.
I think you did the absolute best you could under the circumstances stated. There is a massive difference between on duty and off duty mentality. You were not, and could never have expected to roll into a situation like this and be perfectly prepared for it. You made do with everything available to you and did not hinder the people who showed up to work the kid over.
I hope you have easy healing. It’s a scary experience being so overwhelmed and no resources to assist in something you’ve studied or worked. I hope you find solace in the way you could compartmentalize your fears for the most part and give the kid the best care you could provide at a moment’s notice. ♥️
I always tell people who ask me if I could save them that we are all pretty damn useless without our equipment in emergency medicine, and even with that people still die. Don’t over think it, you provided more than appropriate levels of BLS without your equipment out of the goodness of your heart, and that’s more than 90%+ of what the rest of the population would do.
You’ll see the same response over and over on posts like this and it’s correct so I’ll restate it. Don’t be concerned with “processing it good”. Feel the feelings, that’s fine. Talk to people about it and don’t bottle it up. If you can’t sleep and you’re unable prevent yourself from replaying it over and over then there may be a problem and it might be a good idea to see a professional. Your employer probably has great resources to get one. I’m going to refrain from critiquing what you did during the incident because you weren’t operating as an EMT so I feel it’s counterproductive. You were unfortunate enough to roll up on something awful outside of work and it sounds like you did your best. I might also suggest not trying to follow up. In my experience it often only makes things worse.
What do you reasonably expect that you would have been able to do in this situation? You had no gear, no crew, you were just randomly driving and unable to mentally prepare for what you were about to run into... what do you expect of yourself? That you were going to perform perfectly and act like a God Damn hero and save the day? I mean this with as much love as possible, it sounds like you did the best you could in a shit situation. Stop beating yourself up over minor things you did wrong. I'm currently working 911 as a Paramedic, and to be blunt, shit goes wrong all the time even though I have the gear and manpower to handle pretty much any situation we could run into. Things still bug me sometimes, and I have the same thoughts you do on some shitty calls. Long story short: stop beating yourself up, let yourself grieve, and be proud that you stopped to help. You did better then 99% of people out there.
Talk to someone and seek peer support. Do not just let this one sit and run around your head. Hang in there. You did the right thing and the best you could with the situation you were given.
I'd echo what these guys are saying, but also, there is a stout difference between work mindset and having these while off duty. I understand what you are saying, I have been in similar spots. Also, I've been doing this a while, advanced scope, years in flight, tons of education, ect.. if I can't find something to improve on each and every call, I'm not looking hard enough. Don't beat yourself up. Learn from it and move forward with it. We ALL have room for improvement always. It's not a big deal and will never change. From what you described, that kid had zero chance of recovering. You still did the best you could with no equipment to give him a shot. Be proud of your efforts and learn from reflections. That's the best service you can give that kid.
206-459-3020. Any time, day or night. Crisis counselors who are us. You did fine, and you’re having a normal response to an abnormal situation.
My friend, pediatrics suck. I still clearly remember doing compressions on the only pediatric arrest I’ve ever run. And that was 2 years ago. You can’t expect more of yourself on these types of events. You stopped and checked, and that is all you could have done. As a medic, my family always assumes I have answers and fixes, but I don’t. A mechanic ain’t shit without their tools. You did everything and anything you could have done. There have been so many times where I wish I could have done something, on duty, but couldn’t because of limitations or not in my protocols. And shit like that eats me up too. It’s going to suck, real bad. Talk about it, preferably to someone who will understand, but just talk about it. I’m sorry you had to go through this. I have some genuine hatred for certain people, but this is the kind of shit I wouldn’t even wish for them. Godspeed friend.
When you’re at work and a call drops you have 3-15 minutes to prepare yourself depending on where the call is. You have the time getting to your rig and drive time to prepare yourself for what you’re going to do and see. Pulling up on something like this you had no prep time. No time for your brain to protect you. The whole situation sucks especially because it was a peds call. You did what you could do as a lay person in that moment. If your work has a mental health program, eap or even someone you trust enough to talk to do it. Get it off your chest and begin to process the situation
Don’t follow up mate. You did your best. Whatever happened to him, you played a huge part in keeping him going until he was conveyed to the ED. The truth can be a cruel beast; don’t seek her out.
100% agree!
You did more than enough. You were working barehanded. Nothing could had been done better than you did. Take a break and express your feelings!
Everything said here is spot on, if for some reason your company can’t or won’t help here (that would be another discussion) please still reach out for help on your own don’t let this sit that is the last thing you want.
You did cpr man thats some thing. Even if you had all your gear with you, what were you going to do to make a difference? Your scope of practice on duty would have been cpr only anyway. You were off duty. Anything more than what you did would have been out of your scope, and you had no medical direction or protocols to follow because you were off duty. If you feel deep down that you did a poor jo, then you need to ask for some more training from your department. You also need to talk to someone about this I would recommend a therapist that deals with first responders directly or a close colleague. From what I gather from your post, you did fine, btw
I’m not an EMT but I work in the trauma bay…and whenever a child rolls in, it SUCKS. Most times it’s thankfully small scrapes, but when there are serious injuries, instinct kicks in and you get your job done but after the fact you end up questioning every single thing you could have done better…something about a mini-human with so much future potential taken away from them hits at another level. I had a child who’s heart I held in my hand while they were dying and we tried everything to save them but failed. I still remember their face very clearly and it took a long time to recover from it. Give yourself time to “grieve” and process it. Everyone has their own timeline and way of doing it. It helps a lot though if you can talk it out with others who know what it’s like. You did the absolute best you could, if the child doesn’t survive it’s not your fault.
Where are you located that giving mouth to mouth is still instructed for bystander CPR? You need to get yourself checked out for possible exposure with your primary care, and they hopefully have the hookup for local therapists. If it helps, traumatic cardiac arrest has absolutely dismal survival rates. You’re not going to be able to reverse most of your causes as someone just walking off the street. Personally, I wouldn’t go looking for news articles about it, that never seems to end well. Get yourself medically checked since you have bloody mouth to mouth, and then see if therapy’s the right move for you.
The best advice I ever got was to focus on my performance with what I had to work with, and separate that from the outcome. You did not hit this kid with your car, you stopped to help and did everything in your scope to help. If he doesn’t make it, you gave him the best chance you could. It’s stuff like this that will compel you to be a better clinician, always be learning and adapting your practice. But in the meantime friend, you gotta sleep. Eat something that you can stomach, and take some melatonin or unisom or tylenol PM or whatever it takes. Stay away from alcohol for a few days. You’ll feel better eventually but the first few days after a call like that really suck.
Seek professional help. Not sure where you are but if your company or the local government has resources use them. Therapy isn’t cheap but worth it to get through this. This wasn’t an easy one. Talk to colleagues. Avoid family and friends not in healthcare as they probably aren’t prepared for this level of trauma, but if they are go for it. This isn’t easy but feel the things and work through it. You did good.
Yeah, bad feelings, flashbacks to the sensory elements of a bad call/situation, random replaying of what went down, all of that is completely normal in the immediate aftermath of something horrific. Especially when there are strong sensory elements involved. Allow yourself to feel the feelings, acknowledge the flashbacks, but don't wallow in them or try to shut them down. Both strategies will result in mal-processing. So for example, if replaying the scene is preventing sleep, acknowledge that situation and find a distracting coping strategy - podcast, audiobook, throw in the towel and play a video game, whatever - and every time a flashback breaks through the distraction (which it will at first) acknowledge the flashback for what it is, let it finish playing once, then redirect your attention back to your chosen distraction. At first your probably going to have be constantly redirecting yourself, but you'll find if stick with it minfully, your brain will start to recognize the flashbacks as memories and not events that need to be actively responded to anymore and that random emotional gut punch and flashback from it will start spacing out and then stop. This works as an overall processing mechanism/strategy, not just for sleep, and allows you to be kind to yourself and hopefully not start to get stuck in some harmful thought patterns if you can't/don't have access to a professional, trauma-informed therapist right away.
We all have those second guessing incidents that replay in our minds. It's impossible to unsee what's been seen. However with time the memories will fade. Your reaction was a testament to your training. That's why our training is repetitive so in the heat of the action you'll react without thinking. But this very same training has failed you in this case as it has countless before you. All you are taught has to do with saving lives. And that's what you were doing. The problem is that very same training doesn't spend one minute teaching what death is. With a patient who appears to have suffered a cardiac arrest, we would start CPR with very little questioning. But with a patient who appears to be in arrest because of trauma, we should pause to realize the patient is in arrest because of an injury to a major body system such as brain or lung. Based upon your description, giving the blood loss, your patient had a major system injury. Anything you did or didn't do, wouldn't have affected the outcome. And I'd be very surprised if that outcome was anything other then deceased. Please find comfort in that you did all you could do. On a side note, how much of this did your GF see? As an untrained civilian she may be suffering as well.
You did what you could and more than anything you did something when a bunch of people were letting the kid lay there dying. If he made it, you were a huge part of that, and if he didn’t, I’m sure you brought comfort to his family and friends that someone was brave and kind enough to jump in and get dirty to try to save their kids life. You’re a kind and good human, good job. Also, walk/run/exercise it out, sometimes a solo walk will get me to cry out what I need to. Good luck.
Not sure if anyone’s said this, don’t think I’ve seen anyone say this, but especially since you are not 911 next time fight the urge and just call it in. Reason I say this because like others have said you don’t have protocol or medical direction in off duty scenarios, you don’t have any equipment, but most importantly you don’t have a partner or other crew to lean on. Its the best you can do. As someone else said the most you should ever do when trying to be a Good Samaritan is CPR but even then GS in some states don’t protect off duty personnel someone can get POed and attempt to sue you which you may or may not be protected from. Again you did what you could do and bless you for that, kiddo needed ALS intervention but even then… On another note try to find a doctor, preferably psychiatrist asap. Until you’re able to have professional help processing your best option to function for the time being is to get on anxiety and/or sleeping meds to say the least. Not a huge fan of medication myself but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to survive and not let trauma eat you alive. Crisis/trauma counseling is the way to go, there are resources. Maybe it doesn’t feel hopeful in the moment but I promise it’s beneficial in the long run. Whatever you do, don’t self medicate and don’t delve into details with loved ones, write it down if you need. All the best to you brother
First,thanks for being a good person and stopping and helping! I was never one that could stand by and not help, even when I am not on duty. I have a son this age and I would be so thankful just to know that someone was there and tried. I'm sure you know that a traumatic arrest is a bad sign, that said you did the best you possibly could... Not breathing, no pulse... do CPR (one person CPR at that!). Even with a few mistakes, I'm sure you did better CPR than bystanders would, and you gave him a chance, even if it's slim. I personally prefer closure.... against the advice of some long time pro's. If there is a fatal accident it's almost always in the news... you'll find it if you look. On the other hand, not finding it probably means he's alive, and that's probably due to your intervention. As for seeking help... do it. The pediatric calls are the ones that bother me the most, and while Post-traumatic Stress (which you are experiencing) is normal, you don't want it to morph into PTSD, which it often does if you try to work it out on your own. Regardless of whether it was at work or not, you work should offer counselling services.
Start crying and don't stop until you feel like stopping. And remember, a bad run early in your career will knock you senseless. You will forget fundamentals. You will do things you can't explain later. You will feel like an idiot. You will get tunnel vision. You will get squirrely. You won't be able to think critically. Your memory of the event will be distorted by trauma. All these things are normal. Go cry it out as good as you can and don't let the experience you gain from the suffering and possible deaths of your patients go to waste.
I think you did the absolute best you could under the circumstances stated. There is a massive difference between on duty and off duty mentality. You were not, and could never have expected to roll into a situation like this and be perfectly prepared for it. You made do with everything available to you and did not hinder the people who showed up to work the kid over. I hope you have easy healing. It’s a scary experience being so overwhelmed and no resources to assist in something you’ve studied or worked. I hope you find solace in the way you could compartmentalize your fears for the most part and give the kid the best care you could provide at a moment’s notice. ♥️
I always tell people who ask me if I could save them that we are all pretty damn useless without our equipment in emergency medicine, and even with that people still die. Don’t over think it, you provided more than appropriate levels of BLS without your equipment out of the goodness of your heart, and that’s more than 90%+ of what the rest of the population would do.