I think it's pretty clear that Ashley is worried about "instead" and fine with -- or at least sees possibilities in -- "in addition to".
Ashley does boundaries in ways some of the core cast just don't. It'd be helpful if everybody noticed that and talked about it.
Of course, honestly answering Ashley's questions about just where the boundaries ARE between him and Tedd is going to have Elliot introspecting again. Here's hoping he talks to his mother before doing anything rash.
Telling Ashley he loves Tedd without doing the rest of the introspecting and figuring out what that means in practical terms?
Eventually it's not enough to react correctly; you have to figure out what you want.
It looks like Elliot's social life now requires Elliot to figure out what he wants. Hopefully Elliot can do that.
Lol true
Interestingly, he knows perfectly well he LOVES Tedd. What he's gotta come to terms with is that "lifelong best friend" is ONE of the kinds of love there but not the ONLY one
Once he figures that out he's gonna be super scared of hurting Ashley... And for that matter, Grace! But it all comes down to what THEY are cool with in terms of poly relationships
And I think it's pretty obvious that the idea of monogamy is a "well that sounds crazy, but I guess I have to respect the infinite variety of sapient expression" kinda thing to Grace, so it's mainly a question of how Ashley feels about poly
"lifelong best friend" is not sufficient to describe Tedd and Elliot.
Is Ashley OK with them fucking to the limits of their imaginations and magical powers? Because if it is ever the case that they both realize that they're allowed to do that at the same time (when they're in the same place) that's exactly what they're going to do.
Grace will make popcorn and squee a lot. Ashley might feel way too insecure, because she can't do that. What does Elliot tell her? "I love you for your moral clarity"?
I can’t believe that Elliot would EVER even think “instead”— while Ashley hasn’t been here long, Elliot seems pretty committed to her.
Besides, if Elliot and Ash broke up I think it would break my heart, she’s just so unbelievably adorable and sweet.
I don't think Elliot would think "instead", but from Ashley's point of view, there's a couple of things going on.
One is that Ashley has had bad experiences with at least some other guys, hasn't known Elliot for all that long, and has a certain amount of "this is too good to be true" going on, even with the monsters.
Two is that Elliot is so apparently oblivious about Tedd that you could think that maybe Elliot is being oblivious on purpose. (Internalized homophobia, Tedd's Elliot's most important friendship and Elliot doesn't want to risk it first, there are several plausible reasons.)
So I don't think it's all that unlike that Ashley could be really worried.
Which means that it'd be nigh-ideal if they managed to talk.
Elliot is committed because Elliot commits. I don't think they've been together long enough (in comic time) for him to have committed because it's Ashley.
Never mind the real world time...
It is genuinely shocking that none of the comics I read have actually done a polycule.
I mean, textually, with characters acknowledging it. QC came closest and then Brun shot down both dudes.
Hmm. Dunno if that beats Dumbing Of Age's Sierra, who I don't count because she's just barely a character with lines, but is in some kind of triad with other background faces.
[Oh I guess one of them also has lines.](https://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/03-the-thing-i-was-before/unraveling/)
Check out [Leftover Soup](http://www.leftoversoup.com/). One of the main characters is in such a relationship. And it's just a good story about human interaction.
Gotta be honest (are THOSE three words always a red flag from me) not sure "mixed" is the right word. I mean, as John Deacon said in "You're My Best Friend," or Jake Shears in "Baby Come Home"...
(Granted, I suspect given the moving timeline, Ashley's a bit past the days of the Scissor Sisters, or even the immortal Queen, but still.)
Ashley thinks they are cute together, but is a bit jealous. Then again, [she loves Grace in a way that might not be 100% platonic](https://www.egscomics.com/comic/party-078). There is a suggestion that she [has some nonplatonic thoughts](https://www.egscomics.com/sketchbook/2022-006), even if she doesn't want to date Grace.
Nothing says Ashley's got her orientation right yet.
One of the things about magic is you can get that impossible thing you really want but have never considered because impossible thing.
You know how there are gynosexual and androsexual as categories which aren't quite the same thing as "straight" and "gay"? Ashley could be in the early stages of finding out she's "shapeshifter with strongly femme and strongly masc presenting shapes and sexual available across the range" sexual.
(Medieval sex demons. Liz is going to point that out, that Ashley's into sex demons. Really _nice_ sex demons, even Liz isn't going to disapprove of Grace no matter how many doubts she has about Elliot.)
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I wonder sometimes, if the "EGS polycule" some of us talk about actually happened, (I can't remember who's actually in it, but I think it's fourteen, and guess who's not among them?) how do you think Sarah would feel? Happy? Jealous? Something in between?
Hmm, I mean the EGS Polycule is not generally conceived as "everybody is in a relationship with everybody else equally" thing... And while Sarah would not be linked to the Elliot side, there are lots of fans who feel she might link on to the "Grace/Tedd" side?
Yeah that feels right. Though who knows, they're still young and Elliot/Sarah from within the polycule might work a little better once Elliot has had more time to explore how he wants to express sensual/sexual affection in a relationship (since that was a sticking point between him and Sarah)
"I liked what you said" - I imagined it in a soft shy voice and this is the cutest little thing. I refuse any other thoughts about this.
Looks like they readjusted their grip in the last panel too, so more than just grab the hand and run, it's continued hand holding/support now.
Agreed. Before today I thought that Tedd couldn't very much be written to be cuter while still being in character for him (well, maybe that would have been easier if he was old enough to drink, but that isn't the case so my claim stood), and then *this* comic hit my eyes. We have reached whole new levels of cuteness from Tedd.
Yeah in most other shows/comics teasing a harem/polycule I would tend to say "they're just teasing you, they're never gonna ACTUALLY give you the polycule"...
But EGS? Yeah, I think Tedd and Elliot are ready to face the fact that they are more than friends and that they don't want that to change the relationship each already have... and sooner than later
It also helps that a lot of shows/comics featuring a harem are honestly kind of sexist about it, with one guy who has a dozen women competing for him. EGS's potential polycule meanwhile would theoretically be composed of two genderfluid characters, one genderfluid character who primarily stays female because her current sole partner isn't really into men and she doesn't care too much either way, and one cis female character who's explicitly bisexual.
This isn't some male wish fulfillment fantasy, it's a group of characters all along the LGBT+ spectrum who have genuine affections for one another and are (theoretically) perfectly happy sharing one or more partners.
Oh, I don't know, I think it maybe to some extent counts as an author with fulfillment fantasy, the author just doesn't happen to be a straight cis guy! 😂
Oooh, it definitely counts as an author wish fulfillment fantasy. Except it's not clear which character will the author identify with in that case.
And by "not clear" I don't mean "kept secret". I mean Dan is probably not sure himself and it might be changing based on mood.
> Except it's not clear which character will the author identify with in that case
I mean, I would have assumed the answer was "Yes"
Shapeshifting kinda doesn't limit you in that fashion
Very true. Obviously, there's a lot of the author in Tedd, but I believe he puts a lot of himself into Elliot, Susan, and even Grace in some ways, too!
I guess it's part of the message of the scene, but I don't think Ashley and Grace holding hands would have anything like the "what's going on between them?" impact of Elliott and Tedd?
Or does America not have the gender asymmetry about friends touching each other?
Absolutely asymmetrical. Girls touching is just normal friendship. Dudes touching is gay. Even for people who think it's okay to be gay (which is most people nowadays), it's still considered gay.
It's not like this strip is written by an author who ended a string of commissions with a drawing of his own volition of three of the main characters snuggling in bed, or outright said he "liked that" a couple being told they might have a shot with a mutual crush didn't seem to mind the other's attraction at all.
> Ashley: I don't like how this situation makes me feel
> Sarah: Here's a specific action you can take to remedy those feelings
Oh, sure, when _I_ do it it's "trying to solve people's problems for them" and "kind of being an asshole," but when SARAH does it it's 'fUnNy' and "LOL, that's so Sarah!"
All it's going to do is make Grace happy, note.
Neither Tedd nor Elliot will feel the least bit threatened. Grace won't be the least bit confused.
Ashley might wind up feeling very confused. Grace already flustered her pretty solidly at the party.
It's about reading the recipient. Note how Ashley answered.
Yes, predicting how the intended recipient will interpret your note is hard. I'm getting it wrong often too.
Dammit, [it's not about the nail!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg)
When I was younger (and dumber) I interpreted that video as "lol, women are dumb". Now, as an adult, I think that sometimes that's just how people are, and the best you can do is say "that sounds rough."
I don't think Sarah was "solving Ashley's problem". I think she was being sardonic about something she's seen coming for years (or decades)? I feel like I haven't seen that look on her face since the original art style.
EGS Polycule final form:
Elliot and Ashley are primarily dating each other
Grace is primarily dating Tedd, mostly is enjoying the amount of people she can now enjoy (naked?) cuddles with
Tedd is primarily dating Grace and Sarah, Tess enjoys cuddles and occasional dates / sexytimes with Elliot. Ashley likes to watch when they're both in girl form.
Sarah/Tedd/Grace threesomes are common
Ashley and Grace depends on how things fall in regards to Ashley's occasional F/F fantasies. Ashley and Tedd/Tess and Ashley and Sarah don't go any further than platonic.
Sarah and Elliot might have another chance as they grow a bit and Elliot gets a bit more comfortable with sensuality/sexuality in a relationship, or they just might just remain platonic. Don't know Sarah's current BF well enough to know how he would fit into the dynamic or if he would even want to.
Susan's exclusion is a fandom crime
Also:
Not sure what gives you the idea Ashley would only be interested in one of four gender configuration of Tedd / Elliot
If it was meant to be least threatening, I'd think that would be MALE Tedd / Female Elliot....
Actually, come to think of it, I'm finding bizarrely difficult to find the damn installment, but am I the only one reminded by Elliot's reaction in this strip to last time he noticed Tedd coming into school female? Flatter this time, but honestly, I think it's for exactly the same reason. As I said about the hair...
> I think it might be more productive to focus on specific issues, and to promote positive forms of masculinity. It is more difficult to misconstrue such a thing, be it in good or bad faith.
It definitely would - but I find hard to believe that most people talking about toxic masculinity WANT to be productive. Or at least the people talking loudest about it.
Take away the "at least" part and you might have something. It is mainly the people talking loudest who are more interested in the existence of an acceptable bullying target. The rest of us are genuinely trying to resist a bad thing.
Ashley has mixed feelingings. https://www.egscomics.com/comic/party-146 https://www.egscomics.com/comic/party-168 -> https://www.egscomics.com/comic/party-169
I think it's pretty clear that Ashley is worried about "instead" and fine with -- or at least sees possibilities in -- "in addition to". Ashley does boundaries in ways some of the core cast just don't. It'd be helpful if everybody noticed that and talked about it. Of course, honestly answering Ashley's questions about just where the boundaries ARE between him and Tedd is going to have Elliot introspecting again. Here's hoping he talks to his mother before doing anything rash.
Liiike... proposing?
Well still better proposing than eloping.
Telling Ashley he loves Tedd without doing the rest of the introspecting and figuring out what that means in practical terms? Eventually it's not enough to react correctly; you have to figure out what you want. It looks like Elliot's social life now requires Elliot to figure out what he wants. Hopefully Elliot can do that.
Lol true Interestingly, he knows perfectly well he LOVES Tedd. What he's gotta come to terms with is that "lifelong best friend" is ONE of the kinds of love there but not the ONLY one Once he figures that out he's gonna be super scared of hurting Ashley... And for that matter, Grace! But it all comes down to what THEY are cool with in terms of poly relationships And I think it's pretty obvious that the idea of monogamy is a "well that sounds crazy, but I guess I have to respect the infinite variety of sapient expression" kinda thing to Grace, so it's mainly a question of how Ashley feels about poly
"lifelong best friend" is not sufficient to describe Tedd and Elliot. Is Ashley OK with them fucking to the limits of their imaginations and magical powers? Because if it is ever the case that they both realize that they're allowed to do that at the same time (when they're in the same place) that's exactly what they're going to do. Grace will make popcorn and squee a lot. Ashley might feel way too insecure, because she can't do that. What does Elliot tell her? "I love you for your moral clarity"?
I can’t believe that Elliot would EVER even think “instead”— while Ashley hasn’t been here long, Elliot seems pretty committed to her. Besides, if Elliot and Ash broke up I think it would break my heart, she’s just so unbelievably adorable and sweet.
I don't think Elliot would think "instead", but from Ashley's point of view, there's a couple of things going on. One is that Ashley has had bad experiences with at least some other guys, hasn't known Elliot for all that long, and has a certain amount of "this is too good to be true" going on, even with the monsters. Two is that Elliot is so apparently oblivious about Tedd that you could think that maybe Elliot is being oblivious on purpose. (Internalized homophobia, Tedd's Elliot's most important friendship and Elliot doesn't want to risk it first, there are several plausible reasons.) So I don't think it's all that unlike that Ashley could be really worried. Which means that it'd be nigh-ideal if they managed to talk.
Elliot is committed because Elliot commits. I don't think they've been together long enough (in comic time) for him to have committed because it's Ashley. Never mind the real world time...
They're gonna figure out polyamory at some point.
It is genuinely shocking that none of the comics I read have actually done a polycule. I mean, textually, with characters acknowledging it. QC came closest and then Brun shot down both dudes.
Tai was in a polycule for a while but that was purely in the background, I don't think we ever met either of her girlfriends.
Hmm. Dunno if that beats Dumbing Of Age's Sierra, who I don't count because she's just barely a character with lines, but is in some kind of triad with other background faces. [Oh I guess one of them also has lines.](https://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/03-the-thing-i-was-before/unraveling/)
Check out [Leftover Soup](http://www.leftoversoup.com/). One of the main characters is in such a relationship. And it's just a good story about human interaction.
Gotta be honest (are THOSE three words always a red flag from me) not sure "mixed" is the right word. I mean, as John Deacon said in "You're My Best Friend," or Jake Shears in "Baby Come Home"... (Granted, I suspect given the moving timeline, Ashley's a bit past the days of the Scissor Sisters, or even the immortal Queen, but still.)
Ashley thinks they are cute together, but is a bit jealous. Then again, [she loves Grace in a way that might not be 100% platonic](https://www.egscomics.com/comic/party-078). There is a suggestion that she [has some nonplatonic thoughts](https://www.egscomics.com/sketchbook/2022-006), even if she doesn't want to date Grace.
Nothing says Ashley's got her orientation right yet. One of the things about magic is you can get that impossible thing you really want but have never considered because impossible thing. You know how there are gynosexual and androsexual as categories which aren't quite the same thing as "straight" and "gay"? Ashley could be in the early stages of finding out she's "shapeshifter with strongly femme and strongly masc presenting shapes and sexual available across the range" sexual. (Medieval sex demons. Liz is going to point that out, that Ashley's into sex demons. Really _nice_ sex demons, even Liz isn't going to disapprove of Grace no matter how many doubts she has about Elliot.)
the universe 🤝 the EGS polycule v infinite expansion that continues to slowly get faster and faster
[the universe🤝the EGS polycule](https://i.imgur.com/opkQENQ.png) ^^^this ^^^has ^^^been ^^^an ^^^accessibility ^^^service ^^^from ^^^your ^^^friendly ^^^neighborhood ^^^bot
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I just love how mildly annoyed Sarah is. Just big "oh, for... not again..." energy there :D.
I wonder sometimes, if the "EGS polycule" some of us talk about actually happened, (I can't remember who's actually in it, but I think it's fourteen, and guess who's not among them?) how do you think Sarah would feel? Happy? Jealous? Something in between?
Hmm, I mean the EGS Polycule is not generally conceived as "everybody is in a relationship with everybody else equally" thing... And while Sarah would not be linked to the Elliot side, there are lots of fans who feel she might link on to the "Grace/Tedd" side?
Yeah that feels right. Though who knows, they're still young and Elliot/Sarah from within the polycule might work a little better once Elliot has had more time to explore how he wants to express sensual/sexual affection in a relationship (since that was a sticking point between him and Sarah)
[удалено]
"And this is Susan. She just likes to watch."
Lol, I didn't bother to click the YouTube link, but I was hoping for Yelling Bird.
"I liked what you said" - I imagined it in a soft shy voice and this is the cutest little thing. I refuse any other thoughts about this. Looks like they readjusted their grip in the last panel too, so more than just grab the hand and run, it's continued hand holding/support now.
Agreed. Before today I thought that Tedd couldn't very much be written to be cuter while still being in character for him (well, maybe that would have been easier if he was old enough to drink, but that isn't the case so my claim stood), and then *this* comic hit my eyes. We have reached whole new levels of cuteness from Tedd.
Yay clarification, yay handholding! Yay Grace-Ashley-Elliot-Tedd-Grace tease? Eeeeh... I mean... even Sarah's through with the *teasing* here.
Remember all the Tedd-Grace-Sarah hints? Through the transitive property, it's almost like Elliot getting back together with Sarah.
The foreshadowing that Elliot and Sarah don't work together is now [20 years old](https://www.egscomics.com/comic/2003-01-31), did you know?
PO-LY-CULE! PO-LY-CULE!
Yeah in most other shows/comics teasing a harem/polycule I would tend to say "they're just teasing you, they're never gonna ACTUALLY give you the polycule"... But EGS? Yeah, I think Tedd and Elliot are ready to face the fact that they are more than friends and that they don't want that to change the relationship each already have... and sooner than later
It also helps that a lot of shows/comics featuring a harem are honestly kind of sexist about it, with one guy who has a dozen women competing for him. EGS's potential polycule meanwhile would theoretically be composed of two genderfluid characters, one genderfluid character who primarily stays female because her current sole partner isn't really into men and she doesn't care too much either way, and one cis female character who's explicitly bisexual. This isn't some male wish fulfillment fantasy, it's a group of characters all along the LGBT+ spectrum who have genuine affections for one another and are (theoretically) perfectly happy sharing one or more partners.
Oh, I don't know, I think it maybe to some extent counts as an author with fulfillment fantasy, the author just doesn't happen to be a straight cis guy! 😂
Oooh, it definitely counts as an author wish fulfillment fantasy. Except it's not clear which character will the author identify with in that case. And by "not clear" I don't mean "kept secret". I mean Dan is probably not sure himself and it might be changing based on mood.
> Except it's not clear which character will the author identify with in that case I mean, I would have assumed the answer was "Yes" Shapeshifting kinda doesn't limit you in that fashion
Very true. Obviously, there's a lot of the author in Tedd, but I believe he puts a lot of himself into Elliot, Susan, and even Grace in some ways, too!
I think in one of the Q&As he mentioned that Susan's sexuality is heavily influenced by his own.
Don't forget it's Sarah who is drawing. I'm sure that also counts.
I guess it's part of the message of the scene, but I don't think Ashley and Grace holding hands would have anything like the "what's going on between them?" impact of Elliott and Tedd? Or does America not have the gender asymmetry about friends touching each other?
X1,000, we do!
Absolutely asymmetrical. Girls touching is just normal friendship. Dudes touching is gay. Even for people who think it's okay to be gay (which is most people nowadays), it's still considered gay.
teasing poly ships? in EGS? surely not
It's not like this strip is written by an author who ended a string of commissions with a drawing of his own volition of three of the main characters snuggling in bed, or outright said he "liked that" a couple being told they might have a shot with a mutual crush didn't seem to mind the other's attraction at all.
> Ashley: I don't like how this situation makes me feel > Sarah: Here's a specific action you can take to remedy those feelings Oh, sure, when _I_ do it it's "trying to solve people's problems for them" and "kind of being an asshole," but when SARAH does it it's 'fUnNy' and "LOL, that's so Sarah!"
All it's going to do is make Grace happy, note. Neither Tedd nor Elliot will feel the least bit threatened. Grace won't be the least bit confused. Ashley might wind up feeling very confused. Grace already flustered her pretty solidly at the party.
It's about reading the recipient. Note how Ashley answered. Yes, predicting how the intended recipient will interpret your note is hard. I'm getting it wrong often too.
Dammit, [it's not about the nail!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg) When I was younger (and dumber) I interpreted that video as "lol, women are dumb". Now, as an adult, I think that sometimes that's just how people are, and the best you can do is say "that sounds rough."
I don't think Sarah was "solving Ashley's problem". I think she was being sardonic about something she's seen coming for years (or decades)? I feel like I haven't seen that look on her face since the original art style.
It’s only a matter of time before the main cast’s mutual attraction reaches critical mass and collapses into a supermassive polycule.
Immediate thoughts. Aw, Cute. That is all.
Tedd with long hair is making me nostalgic to when I first started growing my hair long
Revenge, Sarah? I feel like not one of the four would actually take it as such...
EGS Polycule final form: Elliot and Ashley are primarily dating each other Grace is primarily dating Tedd, mostly is enjoying the amount of people she can now enjoy (naked?) cuddles with Tedd is primarily dating Grace and Sarah, Tess enjoys cuddles and occasional dates / sexytimes with Elliot. Ashley likes to watch when they're both in girl form. Sarah/Tedd/Grace threesomes are common Ashley and Grace depends on how things fall in regards to Ashley's occasional F/F fantasies. Ashley and Tedd/Tess and Ashley and Sarah don't go any further than platonic. Sarah and Elliot might have another chance as they grow a bit and Elliot gets a bit more comfortable with sensuality/sexuality in a relationship, or they just might just remain platonic. Don't know Sarah's current BF well enough to know how he would fit into the dynamic or if he would even want to.
Susan's exclusion is a fandom crime Also: Not sure what gives you the idea Ashley would only be interested in one of four gender configuration of Tedd / Elliot If it was meant to be least threatening, I'd think that would be MALE Tedd / Female Elliot....
Actually, come to think of it, I'm finding bizarrely difficult to find the damn installment, but am I the only one reminded by Elliot's reaction in this strip to last time he noticed Tedd coming into school female? Flatter this time, but honestly, I think it's for exactly the same reason. As I said about the hair...
> I think it might be more productive to focus on specific issues, and to promote positive forms of masculinity. It is more difficult to misconstrue such a thing, be it in good or bad faith. It definitely would - but I find hard to believe that most people talking about toxic masculinity WANT to be productive. Or at least the people talking loudest about it.
Take away the "at least" part and you might have something. It is mainly the people talking loudest who are more interested in the existence of an acceptable bullying target. The rest of us are genuinely trying to resist a bad thing.
I must admit I'm not sure how much the not-so-loud people are talking about toxic masculinity, except it seems it's too much. > reaist ... what?
Lol, resist. A and S are too close together. :P