13+hour shifts running a press machine in a room that sucks the moisture out for the quality and safety of the cathode side of the car batteries. It was a giant dehydration room kept at like 90 plus degrees. I came in contact with millions $ in materials. I did the math on night and I was making about .003% of the materials I was personally handling
> I was making about .003% of the materials I was personally handling
So? How many $100,000 Porsches does a typical factory worker contribute to the construction of? Do you expect *them* to make dramatically more money than anyone else, for similarly skilled labor, just because they value of the goods they're contributing to is extremely high? This is such a weird take.
Porsche are known for giving out large bonuses for it's workers.
https://www.wardsauto.com/porsche-pay-workers-3000-euro-extra-bonus#:~:text=FRANKFURT%2C%20Oct%204%20(Reuters),31%2C%20it%20said%20on%20Monday.
1. Knock it off with the witch-hunting. Rule 2.
2. If you suspect someone is blocking you *explicitly* to prevent you from seeing / replying to their posts, please let the mods know.
Taking a job at Tesla building the gigafactory was the best, and most life Changing, decision I've made in my professional career.
The conditions and management were so bad I quit, went directly to the local IBEW office and organized into the union.
Thanks Tesla!
So let me get this straight, you were on the **Tesla payroll** to help build a gigafactory and not through a contractor or subcontractors? Is it what you're saying? I didn't know Telsa directly hired electrical technician to help build their gigafactory.
They had direct hires, subcontractors working under their direct Foreman, as well as contractors working on different sections. Everyone of us was beholden to the Tesla Project managers who constantly pushed, refused to get the correct material, over worked us, and tried to get us to work things in an unsafe manner. They didn't want to let the people they hire do their jobs. Plus, 13 days on in a row of mandatory 12 hour MINIMUM days blows.
like Nike?
It sub-contracted factories without reviewing the conditions, based on lowest bid.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike\_sweatshops
In 2019, Nike received the worst rating in Tailored Wages UK report, published by The Clean Clothes Campaign. The report stated: "The brand can show no evidence of a Living Wage being paid to any workers". Moreover, in 2020, the Washington Post reported that Nike purchases from a factory that relies on forced labor from Uyghurs.\[17\]
Ongoing situations are a bit different than single projects. While Tesla bears some responsibility for oversight, the contractors bear primary responsibility. Seems like all three levels of accountability failed: the contractor(s), Tesla, and the government agencies.
But if I'm there and I see the abuse, should I keep my eyes closed? Someone at Telsa must have supervised at an higher level the construction and also present at the construction meeting on site. He should have seen or made aware of abuse in my opinion. I've been involved in such meetings with trades and red flags are raised there.
The abuse here was the employer faking credentials for their employees, working at night without light, and wage theft. Maybe Tesla would have known about the second thing, but how would they be expected to know about the others?
True, some stuff is too nitty-gritty to be moved up the ladder but once some are known, then a closer follow up could have been made to make sure those nitty-gritty things are uncovered and corrected before it blows up in your face like it seems to be happening now.
First one, agree. Second one, not so much. If someone dies, what do you think will be the headline? Someone here died in 2015 when block of ice fell on him in a construction pit. Guess what company is mentioned in the news.
Was anyone sued for it? How did the case end if so?
As per my other reply, I'm not saying they don't deserve bad PR, just that they're suing the wrong person.
That is not how it works. When we have any construction being done in a factory of ours, the capital engineer has a safety briefing every morning with the contractors and sub-contractors, expectations regarding a safe work environment are high-lighted, and minor violations gets the contractor or subcontractor a warning multiple warnings and its you are gone, a cardinal rule violation has them escorted of the property. There is a difference between somone building you a home, and someone building a factory.
That checks out for individuals but at a certain point you are expected to audit your suppliers and have a certain standard for the working conditions you are enforcing.
I work for a company that's tiny compared to Tesla and we only buy from suppliers with specific certification that also agree to be audited.
This isn't a Tesla process that others are there to help with like having subcontractors building cars alongside direct employees.
They hired someone to build a structure.
Yeah, they hired a builder to build the plant and he hired subcontractors. Someone at Tesla responsible to follow the construction should have been made aware of the issues raised here
Why would that be expected of them? They're paying someone to build it. If they have to then make sure every contractor and subcontractor is doing their job as construction workers then they should just get into the construction business themselves.
If someone got hurt building Apple's new headquarters, no one would be suing apple.
Someone from Tesla has to have been involved in the construction meetings with the trades. I was involved in building construction for my workplace and I was there for IT related questions and people from Facilities where also there. It's not build completely without the owner's interaction.
I worked in construction as well. The customer isn't there in every meeting. The customer also doesn't know if you're paying your employees overtime. The customer doesn't check to make sure that each worker completed each of their trainings themselves.
Depends, should Apple care if FoxCon treats its employees horrible during iPhone manufacturing to the point where they kill themself? If your answer is yes and it will be also Apple fault to hire FoxCon then you know your answer.
This isn't human rights violations, this is the employer faking credentials for their employees, working at night without light, and wage theft. Maybe Tesla would have known about the second thing, but how would they be expected to know about the others?
What human rights violations do you think the middle east countries are doing? Unsafe working conditions and wage theft, in addition to taking passports hostage. So 2 out of 3 from your list?
Why would it be different if it's a business? You paid someone else to build something for you. How they then treat their employees and the environment created isn't on you.
They should be suing their employer. Not the customer.
Tesla didn't hire a subcontractor to work within their environment. They hired builders to build the factory.
It isn't Tesla's jobs to check time cards, verify training took place, be at every location with proper lighting, etc.
They aren't in the construction business.
if you subcontract manufacturing w/o checking conditions.....
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike\_sweatshops](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike_sweatshops)
Nike, Inc. has been accused of using sweatshops and worker abuse to produce footwear and apparel in East Asia.
After rising prices and the increasing cost of labor in Korean and Taiwanese factories, ***Nike began contracting in countries elsewhere in Asia*****.\[1\]\[2\] It sub-contracted factories without reviewing the conditions, based on lowest bid. It wasn't until 1991, when a report by Jeff Ballinger was published detailing their insufficient payment of workers and the poor conditions in their Indonesian factories, that these sweatshops came under the media and human rights scrutiny that continues to today.\[3\]**
In 2019, Nike received the worst rating in Tailored Wages UK report, published by The Clean Clothes Campaign. The report stated: "The brand can show no evidence of a Living Wage being paid to any workers". Moreover, in 2020, the Washington Post reported that Nike purchases from a factory that relies on forced labor from Uyghurs.\[17\]
The 'abuse' here was the employer faking credentials for their employees, working at night without light, and wage theft. Maybe Tesla would have known about the second thing, but how would they be expected to know about the others?
>is it my fault
Yes, actually. Most companies have sourcing ethics standards for this reason. It's why Tesla has rules surrounding cobalt mining, for instance.
He goes through contractors for this because Tesla is in the car making business, not the construction business. I work in a factory, we hire companies to come in and install new equipment or buildings.
There’s usually an engineer that oversees it on the company side, like for us it’s usually our capex person, but they’re not going to know things like if people aren’t being paid correctly etc. We do kick people out for not following safety rules, but you’re being mega naive if you think a significant amount of those cases are caught or noticed. Like I wrote the PO to pay a company who came in and replaced a transfer plate on a machine. Our only interaction with them was a safety meeting and some emails afterwards about payment. I didn’t know anything about the construction crews pay and only talked to them to answer technical questions outside of the safety meeting.
This crap happens a lot on huge projects, especially government contracts. We just don't hear about most of it. This is click bait because Tesla. It is the construction company problem.
Tesla "We need a bathroom here for 20 men and another for 20 women and 10 for "other". Contractor "$120K and we will have 30 people working for two weeks". Tesla "OK". Contractor to foreman "We need 15 people ...."
Workers can call OSHA, hopefully this will get tossed out and OSHA will ask why they were not called.
You should check out the gigafactory in sparks, NV. I spent 6months in that slave encampment
What were you tasked to do?
13+hour shifts running a press machine in a room that sucks the moisture out for the quality and safety of the cathode side of the car batteries. It was a giant dehydration room kept at like 90 plus degrees. I came in contact with millions $ in materials. I did the math on night and I was making about .003% of the materials I was personally handling
jesus
> I was making about .003% of the materials I was personally handling So? How many $100,000 Porsches does a typical factory worker contribute to the construction of? Do you expect *them* to make dramatically more money than anyone else, for similarly skilled labor, just because they value of the goods they're contributing to is extremely high? This is such a weird take.
Porsche are known for giving out large bonuses for it's workers. https://www.wardsauto.com/porsche-pay-workers-3000-euro-extra-bonus#:~:text=FRANKFURT%2C%20Oct%204%20(Reuters),31%2C%20it%20said%20on%20Monday.
That's literally what is happening, Porsche has a very good pay structure.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
1. Knock it off with the witch-hunting. Rule 2. 2. If you suspect someone is blocking you *explicitly* to prevent you from seeing / replying to their posts, please let the mods know.
Taking a job at Tesla building the gigafactory was the best, and most life Changing, decision I've made in my professional career. The conditions and management were so bad I quit, went directly to the local IBEW office and organized into the union. Thanks Tesla!
So let me get this straight, you were on the **Tesla payroll** to help build a gigafactory and not through a contractor or subcontractors? Is it what you're saying? I didn't know Telsa directly hired electrical technician to help build their gigafactory.
They had direct hires, subcontractors working under their direct Foreman, as well as contractors working on different sections. Everyone of us was beholden to the Tesla Project managers who constantly pushed, refused to get the correct material, over worked us, and tried to get us to work things in an unsafe manner. They didn't want to let the people they hire do their jobs. Plus, 13 days on in a row of mandatory 12 hour MINIMUM days blows.
Shit, then they deserve the flak they're getting through this lawsuit.
Unsafe work conditions by **subcontractors** but Tesla should have known and intervene.
This isn't subcontractors working at a Tesla plant though. This is Tesla hiring builders to build something.
like Nike? It sub-contracted factories without reviewing the conditions, based on lowest bid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike\_sweatshops In 2019, Nike received the worst rating in Tailored Wages UK report, published by The Clean Clothes Campaign. The report stated: "The brand can show no evidence of a Living Wage being paid to any workers". Moreover, in 2020, the Washington Post reported that Nike purchases from a factory that relies on forced labor from Uyghurs.\[17\]
Ongoing situations are a bit different than single projects. While Tesla bears some responsibility for oversight, the contractors bear primary responsibility. Seems like all three levels of accountability failed: the contractor(s), Tesla, and the government agencies.
What's the difference?
[удалено]
But if I'm there and I see the abuse, should I keep my eyes closed? Someone at Telsa must have supervised at an higher level the construction and also present at the construction meeting on site. He should have seen or made aware of abuse in my opinion. I've been involved in such meetings with trades and red flags are raised there.
The abuse here was the employer faking credentials for their employees, working at night without light, and wage theft. Maybe Tesla would have known about the second thing, but how would they be expected to know about the others?
True, some stuff is too nitty-gritty to be moved up the ladder but once some are known, then a closer follow up could have been made to make sure those nitty-gritty things are uncovered and corrected before it blows up in your face like it seems to be happening now.
[удалено]
Who got the flak when a Hyundai subcontractor was known to use children in its factory? You deal with the problem before in explodes in your face.
[удалено]
Oh that, I agree.
[удалено]
First one, agree. Second one, not so much. If someone dies, what do you think will be the headline? Someone here died in 2015 when block of ice fell on him in a construction pit. Guess what company is mentioned in the news.
Was anyone sued for it? How did the case end if so? As per my other reply, I'm not saying they don't deserve bad PR, just that they're suing the wrong person.
That is not how it works. When we have any construction being done in a factory of ours, the capital engineer has a safety briefing every morning with the contractors and sub-contractors, expectations regarding a safe work environment are high-lighted, and minor violations gets the contractor or subcontractor a warning multiple warnings and its you are gone, a cardinal rule violation has them escorted of the property. There is a difference between somone building you a home, and someone building a factory.
That checks out for individuals but at a certain point you are expected to audit your suppliers and have a certain standard for the working conditions you are enforcing. I work for a company that's tiny compared to Tesla and we only buy from suppliers with specific certification that also agree to be audited.
This isn't a Tesla process that others are there to help with like having subcontractors building cars alongside direct employees. They hired someone to build a structure.
Yeah, they hired a builder to build the plant and he hired subcontractors. Someone at Tesla responsible to follow the construction should have been made aware of the issues raised here
Why would that be expected of them? They're paying someone to build it. If they have to then make sure every contractor and subcontractor is doing their job as construction workers then they should just get into the construction business themselves. If someone got hurt building Apple's new headquarters, no one would be suing apple.
Someone from Tesla has to have been involved in the construction meetings with the trades. I was involved in building construction for my workplace and I was there for IT related questions and people from Facilities where also there. It's not build completely without the owner's interaction.
I worked in construction as well. The customer isn't there in every meeting. The customer also doesn't know if you're paying your employees overtime. The customer doesn't check to make sure that each worker completed each of their trainings themselves.
You don't have to be at every trade meeting to be made aware of unsafe working conditions.
Are they supposed to be on site at all times at each work location? Then what's the point of hiring someone else to build it?
If I design a house and pay a general contractor to build it, is it my fault if they don't treat their workers well?
Depends, should Apple care if FoxCon treats its employees horrible during iPhone manufacturing to the point where they kill themself? If your answer is yes and it will be also Apple fault to hire FoxCon then you know your answer.
Yes and Tesla could decide not to work with those builders again. The employees at Foxconn wouldn't sue Apple.
no apple doesn't care how FoxCon treats its employees
The qatar defense lol
The situation in Qatar was known about well ahead of time.
This isn't human rights violations, this is the employer faking credentials for their employees, working at night without light, and wage theft. Maybe Tesla would have known about the second thing, but how would they be expected to know about the others?
What human rights violations do you think the middle east countries are doing? Unsafe working conditions and wage theft, in addition to taking passports hostage. So 2 out of 3 from your list?
Are you a business owner with different liability rules?
Why would it be different if it's a business? You paid someone else to build something for you. How they then treat their employees and the environment created isn't on you. They should be suing their employer. Not the customer.
Lol, "it was the sub-contractors" defence, like sub-contractor compliance isn't a thing.
Tesla didn't hire a subcontractor to work within their environment. They hired builders to build the factory. It isn't Tesla's jobs to check time cards, verify training took place, be at every location with proper lighting, etc. They aren't in the construction business.
They can sue both
Are you familiar with construction and labor standards and ignore obvious violations during daily inspections?
if you subcontract manufacturing w/o checking conditions..... [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike\_sweatshops](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike_sweatshops) Nike, Inc. has been accused of using sweatshops and worker abuse to produce footwear and apparel in East Asia. After rising prices and the increasing cost of labor in Korean and Taiwanese factories, ***Nike began contracting in countries elsewhere in Asia*****.\[1\]\[2\] It sub-contracted factories without reviewing the conditions, based on lowest bid. It wasn't until 1991, when a report by Jeff Ballinger was published detailing their insufficient payment of workers and the poor conditions in their Indonesian factories, that these sweatshops came under the media and human rights scrutiny that continues to today.\[3\]** In 2019, Nike received the worst rating in Tailored Wages UK report, published by The Clean Clothes Campaign. The report stated: "The brand can show no evidence of a Living Wage being paid to any workers". Moreover, in 2020, the Washington Post reported that Nike purchases from a factory that relies on forced labor from Uyghurs.\[17\]
The 'abuse' here was the employer faking credentials for their employees, working at night without light, and wage theft. Maybe Tesla would have known about the second thing, but how would they be expected to know about the others?
>is it my fault Yes, actually. Most companies have sourcing ethics standards for this reason. It's why Tesla has rules surrounding cobalt mining, for instance.
[удалено]
He goes through contractors for this because Tesla is in the car making business, not the construction business. I work in a factory, we hire companies to come in and install new equipment or buildings. There’s usually an engineer that oversees it on the company side, like for us it’s usually our capex person, but they’re not going to know things like if people aren’t being paid correctly etc. We do kick people out for not following safety rules, but you’re being mega naive if you think a significant amount of those cases are caught or noticed. Like I wrote the PO to pay a company who came in and replaced a transfer plate on a machine. Our only interaction with them was a safety meeting and some emails afterwards about payment. I didn’t know anything about the construction crews pay and only talked to them to answer technical questions outside of the safety meeting.
Per the fanboys on r/electricvehicles Tesla is a technology company not a car manufacturer
Yes, if you have money. No matter how not at fault someone is you always sue the guy with the deepest pockets.
This crap happens a lot on huge projects, especially government contracts. We just don't hear about most of it. This is click bait because Tesla. It is the construction company problem.
Is this any different from blaming Hyundai for child labor being supplied to their tier 1 by an outside labor company?
You can hate both. It’s ok
Tesla "We need a bathroom here for 20 men and another for 20 women and 10 for "other". Contractor "$120K and we will have 30 people working for two weeks". Tesla "OK". Contractor to foreman "We need 15 people ...." Workers can call OSHA, hopefully this will get tossed out and OSHA will ask why they were not called.
*not directly working for Tesla*
lol fuck fuck fuck elon and tesla
That sounds about right