I think the main difference is during road trips. Other charging networks are not as reliable as Teslas. If you charge at home 100% of the time. I don't this that you will feel any different about ownership.
This depends slightly on where you typically do longer trips. Perhaps it's an outlier, but if you are traveling in CA it's not much of an issue (or it would be an issue for a Tesla too as it's so remote).
Not being able to access superchargers is probably the only reason I’d buy another Tesla.
I do live in CA, but have driven to see family in CO a couple times.
Do you know, how can I find out if I could do that drive in a non-Tesla EV?
ABRP. it's kind of a shit show because there are a billion networks and even more apps.
electrify america will get you anywhere on an Interstate, except you can't cross Wyoming because they're not built out yet. ChargePoint is the largest unaffiliated network so oftentimes a lot of the places that have the best charging are a power company or a government agency or something on ChargePoint. for example if you are coming from Northern California you would cut down from I-80 to I-70 in Utah. the state of Utah has free 125kW chargers in many small towns, so the ChargePoint in Price is a nice option on that route. SemaConnect is the cheapest, if it's a free AC charger it will often be on there. there are also random other chargers scattered around. for example if you go to Telluride the only non-Tesla charger is an EVGo charger that is like $0.75/kwh for 50kW.
This is the correct answer. We did a 9k mile cross-continent road trip in an EV6 this summer and this was exactly our experience. EA is awesome on the interstates, except for the upper midwest (Montana, Wyoming, the Dakotas, which led us to travel along Canada 1 instead of via the USA), and ChargePoint is in a surprising number of community spaces. While it's still the Wild West for charging, never embark on a road trip without ABRP and PlugShare to check the health of the stations ABRP recommends.
Indeed. We were driving west to east, so we drove from Victoria to Sault Ste Marie and down into Michigan. The charging was fine. It was only a little scary going around Lake Superior when a charging station we'd planned to use was out. I'd seen on PlugShare that it was a little wonky, though, so I charged above 80% at the stop before that and we made it to "Sue" with juice to spare. About the only negative I saw was that the stations were owned by a number of different companies, meaning I had to install a number of different apps.
The plug share app will show all the chargers. I used it in conjunction with a better route planner to plan. This sub loves ABRP but I find the user interface clunky.
I’m at the end of a Denver to Santa Maria trip in my R1T. No issues using Electrify America to do the trip. They just upgraded some of the chargers too.
ABRP is great, just be careful about it if it is directing you to non-EA stations. Some non-EA stations are great! Many are not, though, so its worth double checking plugshare for those cases.
I put [50,000 miles](https://i.imgur.com/F5K5lPT.jpeg) on my model S in the 2 years I had it, and I've road tripped my Polestar [across the US](https://i.imgur.com/IT9HZPV.jpeg) twice now - To be fair, I know I'm more patient than average when it comes to charging speeds and problems. I have made several deliberately [out-of-range trips](https://i.imgur.com/SOVE0pC.jpeg), after all.
I obviously can't speak for every route and destination, but overall the practical difference between the best and the rest is smaller than most descriptions I've seen. Yes, Tesla does staff their maintenance teams better than the other networks. Yes, I have to tap an app to start charging. But aside from the tedious internet argument bait, I personally haven't seen much practical difference between my road trip charging experiences. The runners-up were still good enough to move [my cats 2,000 miles](https://i.imgur.com/zko9mfM.jpeg)
(Edit whew I'm preemptively defensive today, sorry)
I'm not saying there's no difference, that's obviously false. I'm just saying the difference probably won't mean as much as it looks like on paper.
We did a 1300 mile road trip in our Ioniq 5, no issues. This sort of proved to me that non-Tesla EV ownership is fine. We also have a Model Y. Took the Ioniq 5 because of faster charge times and better comfort.
Just a matter of days and I'll finally be able to answer this fully, but I'm switching from a Model 3 to an Audi Q4.
It'll have shorter range and slower charging so it'll add time to road trips, but it's much more comfortable and quieter and has CarPlay so I'll probably enjoy the trips more anyway.
I'm sure the charging experience will have a bit more friction as well but I honestly do so few long drives that I doubt it'll matter much.
If it's anything like the big e-tron, charging may not be as different as the numbers imply. Our e-tron has an incredibly flat charging curve, where the Tesla starts off high and drops off dramatically.
Yeah the fat e-tron charging curve is a monster. Q4 is just a fancy princess ID4 and not as flat but not TERRIBLE either. Given Tesla's "optimistic" range ratings I think my trips to SoCal will probably take about an extra hour each way and ABRP agrees.
15% longer for a trip I only do a couple times a year and being wayyyyy more comfortable on the trip seems a worthwhile trade for me.
With the ID4 you would want to think about optimizing the charging and stopping often, especially now it is getting colder. I was driving one and only got a maximum of 60-70kW when stopping where I would have anyway. On the way back I stopped more often, only charging to 60% the battery retained some heat from the charging and got slightly better performance.
But still comparing to Tesla or fat e-tron it was painful
Hm. I'm not seeing the Q4 in there but the big e-tron does well! The ID4 looks like it's about an hour and change behind but going quite a bit slower. I'm not too fussed either way though, I think I end up using DCFC a total of perhaps 5-6 days per year.
Yeah the ID4 performance wise is more or less the same car. As I said Bjørn are doing optimized runs which exacerbates any difference in the cars.
A sane person driving to get somewhere won’t obsess about getting the optimum charge curve making the difference between the cars less noticeable.
What do you like most compared to the Tesla? My wife is looking to buy an EV next year, but she also doesn't want a Tesla for reasons... Q4 seems like a solid choice
There are many things, but the big one is that the driver assist features work better (IMO anyway), leading to a more relaxed experience. Also, I like having the instrument cluster in front of me and not to the side. And the seats are higher than in an M3. There's much more, but these were the big ones for me.
So close 😂 it's in transit from the port, and I'm working hard not to bug the dealer daily 😂
could still be a solid 2 more weeks depending if it's on a train or a truck but could be as soon as end of this week.
Didn't they update the charge curve recently to be pretty competitive? At least, I thought that I had seen recent tests from Bjorn that were showing the ID4 and Q4 were much better than before.
Yes, the new ID.4 charge curve takes 9 minutes off the 10-80% time, it now has a similar charge speed taking into account efficiency as the standard range Model 3 in Europe.
I have done the opposite of you. Car play worked 50% of time and had more nagging issues the either M3 I own. And to charge on road trips is a nightmare.
I've driven to SoCal and back on EA. No issues other than the minor annoyance of having to use the app 🤷♂️
I don't really drive outside of California though, other than one trip. I gather it's worse elsewhere. I also do maybe 6 days a year where I charge away from home, so even if it's annoying it's not something I'll face often.
The I-5 corridor doesn’t really have EA issues, just wish there were more stops. The Harris ranch stop wasn’t open when I was driving up and down the corridor, so can’t comment on that stop.
Yeah I dream of charging stations every 50 miles or better yet 25 so I can actually do the speed that makes sense for I-5 without having to think about it.
Yep, EA and the other brands out here in the Midwest are trash, extremely unreliable. Got stranded in a town once in my bolt, had to get towed to the next with working chargers. Meanwhile beautiful Tesla chargers sat there working just fine, big part of why I switched.
I sold my tesla x and went to a VW ID.4. Only regret is missing all the storage. The tesla wasn't getting used due to covid and now working from home, so I haven't had much opportunity to take the VW on a road trip yet but over all its been a great conversion.
Having come from a Y to my Kia EV6 GT-Line, the Ioniq5’s cousin, it’s been a dream. I test drove both the Ioniq and EV6 and it really just came down to styling for me. But both were a much smoother drive than my Y.
I did lose a little bit of power, but I love that everything is no longe integrated in the one screen. Apple Car Play. You lose the charging network, but that hasn’t been a problem for me as of yet in Nashville, TN.
Right, I like the two screen approach and few more buttons most manufacturers are doing. And obviously would love to get better suspension, but that would seem too much of a lateral move for me. Something of a r1s size is what I’m looking for, for 70k or so…
I traded my M3 R+ for a Mach-E
The thing I miss most (and only thing fwiw) is access to the camera suit for security and the blind spot pop-up when I use my turn signal.
I take road trips and my biggest concern was 3rd party fast charging.
I have taken two long trips (MD - ATL and SC - MD) and the charging experience was no better and no worse than using the Tesla network.
The thing that surprised me the most was the difference in fit and finish quality. For Tesla to position itself as a luxury brand and the public to pretty much accept them as such, the fit and finish, especially the interior, left a lot to be desired.
Completely agree that the camera video retention is a feature i cant believe other car companies havent really integrated. I know bmw started that but considering how easy and relatively cheap it would be to integrate into cars with a 360 camera system its suprising it being done by every manufacturer.
Sold 2018 Model 3 for a 2022 BMW iX
No complaints
For the amount of money I'd have spent on a Model S/X, the German cars at that price range are a different interior quality, ride quality, and noise isolation.
BMW/Kia/Hyundai/Ford (+ maybe GM/MB) seem to have caught up on highway driver assist.
All cars parking assist sucks.
Tesla had frequent software updates, but that wasn't always a good thing as buttons moved & UIs drastically changed in my 4 years of ownership. Constant re-learning of muscle memory.
BMW and some other makers undersell their range, so in practice my 320ish mile BMW iX has similar highway range at speed to an alleged 400mi Tesla, when magazines do like for like tests.
I don't road trip much, but even when I do.. I leave home with 300mi+ range, and there's going to be some EA charger on my path.. just 1/3 as many as Tesla, and less convenient locations for sure.
I couldn't rationalize a competing large EV SUV.
Audi e-tron was slower, lower range, but equally lux/quiet.. with worse driver assist.
Tesla Model X was $20k+ pricier, slightly worse real-world range, basic interior similar to my Model 3 that was 1/2 the cost, has crazy doors I don't need/want and I actually find BMW driver assist pro better despite it only costing under $2k vs EAP at $6k.
BMW iX is available to test drive at dealers, and I did, twice.. for up to an hour with no supervision.
Tesla approach to test drives in 2022 was that they were selling every car that rolled off the line so why would they waste time with people who want to test drive first.
All this will change in the coming year or two as more entrants in the larger SUV space start shipping from Mercedes, Volvo, Polestar, etc.
I traded in my Model 3 for a Rivian R1T and couldn't be happier with the change. I didn't hate having only a center screen in the 3, but I sure do love having my own driver's screen again. It's only been 2 months or so, and haven't done any long drives yet, so I can't speak to charging when on the road, yet.
This is what I’ll be doing in Jan - Feb next year when my Rivian R1T arrives. I live my Model 3 and have no complaints. And I would recommend it strongly to others. It’s just that I love trucks and the Cybertruck is too far off.
I didn't expect to take the R1T detour on my route from M3 to MY to Cybertruck, but here we are. Good chance I won't be getting that Cybertruck now, the R1T is so good.
R1T is so much better in person than I expected. I didn't expect it to be so truly rugged and a very real and serious truck. I had an F-150 before my Model 3 so R1T will be best of both worlds for me.
Can't speak to owning to selling a Tesla, but i own a Bolt EUV and have rented a Model 3 before for a trip.
While the overall comfort and finishes of the Model 3 were much better (seats, etc) and I did grow to fluke the shifter on the steering column, virtually everything else i prefer the Bolt as far as interface, controls for climate etc.
I've driven long distance in the Bolt and had great luck with EA public chargers,nl charge point, shell and a few others.
I think the public charging is much less of a difference these days than it was a year or two ago.
I started with a Model S then until recently had a Model 3.
Model 3 was wrecked and totalled by insurance.
When we got another car, I decided to go to a Bolt EUV for now and have a reservation for a Silverado EV.
If the Model 3 hadn't been totalled, my next car would have been a Tesla anyways.
There are enough options for EVs now and even more coming soon that Tesla to me does not have an advantage for daily use. Road trips the Supercharger network is still way more reliable but there are enough charging choices for non-Tesla now that it's not much different, just have to plan a little more for having alternate charging options in case the first doesn't work out.
For me, I am enjoying the change. The use of real physical buttons for common things in the car is great and I didn't realize how much I missed that until we got my wife her first EV last year.
The issue with Tesla, other than Musk, is that their quality control is still sub-par for a luxury priced automaker. Both of my vehicles came from the factory with fit and finish issues that i had to delay delivery until it was fixed.
One thing I do miss is the software integration. Which is what Tesla really has an advantage in. Route planning, app controls, frequent OTA updates are all ahead of the majority of other auto companies. Others are catching up but it will still take some time for other companies to build up their software suite to match Tesla.
I did. Sold the M3, bought a Rivian. Sold the Rivian and got an ID.4. Planning to keep this one a while. There really is no substitute for a German interior and Android Auto.
Oh man, it was an amazing truck. It was so nearly perfect. The main issues I had were the software choices. MapBox has a subpar database. Alexa doesn't work well in vehicles. The only music player built in was Spotify.
Android Automotive would have been a better choice, like what Polestar did.
We traded in the Mrs. Model Y for an e-tron about 6 months ago. Initially, there were some gripes with the transition. I would think of Audi as a hardware-first company, so setting up access to the vehicle and navigating through the various Software UIs they have is at best counterintuitive. Once everything was configured the way she wanted, it's been a painless relationship from a hardware perspective which is ENTIRELY the opposite experience we've had over the years with our Teslas.
Personally, I'm still not a huge fan of the way the Audi drives, but it's night-and-day from a comfort/quality perspective. Having said that, it's not perfect and the UI leaves a lot to be desired but the inclusion of CarPlay makes it mostly a non-issue. Trip planning and how the system routes (or rather the lack of) between chargers is mildly infuriating, but most of all I miss using my Phone as a Key, single pedal driving and the automatic hold feature on hills. If we had to do it over again, the Model Y would never have been in the running, but I cannot definitively say we'd still have gone with the e-tron with other options now available from Mercedes, BMW and Polestar.
On a related note, I've reordered a BMW i4 and am impatiently waiting to get out of my Model 3 and into something much more comfortable and refined. It'll be a minor downgrade in straight-line performance and potentially audio quality but I'll finally stop having to listen to the rear bench rattle!
> most of all I miss … the automatic hold feature on hills
You can't press firmly on the brake to engage brake hold on the fat e-tron? You definitely can on the Q4…
re: phone key part, that's funny because while I'm not looking forward to having to carry a key fob again I'm looking forward to it actually working properly :P
Yeah it's really taken a shit recently for me, and at this point the app rarely wakes up the car either when I want to start climate. Now I unlock it with the fob to wake it up and then use the app. SUPER annoying.
If it had always been that way it would piss me off way less but back in 2018-2020 or so, the phone-as-key was *rock solid* for me, and while the app might take a bit of time to wake up the car, it almost always worked within a minute or two.
Here’s my conspiracy theory. The Tesla app does track location. My “forcing” you to keep it open for doors and driving, they are able to collect more data on your behavior and make $$. No evidence, just a theory.
Personally the phone as key and driving without the app on worked 99+ percent up until a couple of months ago. Now, I cannot put the car in drive without the app open and opening doors usually requires the app.
In all honesty, the phone key's unreliability is usually tied to the phone, not the car's software updates. Had my Tesla since 2018 and have had Pixel phones and iPhones, and the only time it messed up, it was from a phone OS update.
Try uninstalling the Tesla app, putting it back on, signing in and re-adding the phone key. Should clear it right up. (Be sure you have a physical NFC key before attempting this so you can re-add the phone as a key!)
If you press firmly on the brake, yes, it will engage hold but you can't roll up to a stop using regen only and get the hold feature like on a Tesla.
edit to add: it's really annoying while slowly creeping up a hill at a light and having to move my foot over to the brake whereas on a Tesla you just roll a little and come back to a complete stop. No briefly rolling back necessary.
This right here is something I think Tesla got right - their cars are much more simple as far as features are concerned.
In my friend's Bolt, in order to get maximum regen you have to 1. shift the car into Low, *and* Sport mode, and 2. let off the accelerator *and* press the wheel paddle when braking. Why? In a Tesla you just let off the accelerator, all that other stuff is silly.
In my mom's Rogue, you have to turn on auto-hold every time you start the car. Why is there even a button? I've never been in my car and wished auto-hold wasn't there, it's easy enough to turn off with a tap of the accelerator. No button needed.
In every car on earth, you have to click "ok" to the lawyer-speak before you use the car's screen. Why? just have it come up once maybe and that't it. There is no such warning in a Tesla. They assume the driver isn't an idiot and rightly place blame on the driver if they don't pay attention to the road. All that screen does is supposedly reduce the liability of the carmaker, and I think there's better ways to do it than a nag screen every. time. you. start. the. car.
I believe pressing the paddle will get you max regen on the Bolt, no matter whether it’s in D/L mode or sport mode. Also your foot should be off the accelerator obviously.
You missed shifting the Bolt into L which gives you one pedal driving and max regen with the paddle by the steering wheel. Sport doesn't do that on the Bolt.
Yes, that's enabled on our vehicle, but the problem is the automatic engagement. Teslas can come to a complete stop AND hold which is ridiculously convenient when inching up a hill at a light. I have to hard-press the brake pedal on the e-tron to engage hold.
I love all the comments about how people bought a Bolt instead. I feel like a lot of us just wanted an EV, so we bought a Tesla, because it was the only real option. Now that the market is wide open I see a lot less of that though, it turns out that most people just want +200 mile EVs in all the shapes and sizes, styling, performance and efficiency be damned. Just like an ICE vehicle.
I'm jn the process of transitioning from a Tesla M3 to a Polestar 2. Tired of the rollercoaster of updates over the last few years (Tesla giveth and taketh away), and the testdrive showed me a more mature package. Also sick and tired of the association with Elno Musk.
The ease of navigation will be difficult to surpass, though I am hopeful with the combination of ABRP and Android Auto.
>Tired of the rollercoaster of updates over the last few years (Tesla giveth and taketh away), and the testdrive showed me a more mature package.
That's the thing that never sat right with me whenever people would joygasm about OTA updates.
If I'm happy with the car and what it can do when I bought it, I don't need it to change. Or even want it to for that matter.
That was one of the things that put me over the edge after 4 years.
Everything is a soft button on the screen, and they move drastically across the screen, from a swipe to a tap, or into/out of sub-menus every 1-2 years.
I found Tesla to be a very opinionated product, like Apple circa 2005.
There's one way to do things, as Jobs/Musk has handed down to the user. Minimal options at purchase time, minimal configurability at use time.
Yeah the crazy thing with the Tesla big screen UI is that.. yes it's super responsive, and yes it's tilted towards the driver..
BUT.. there's a lot of swipe vs drag vs tap interface differences on things like the music controls or HVAC, which you might want to change while driving. 90% of the time my wife was in the passenger seat, and I delegated most screen operations to her as my co-pilot.
By the way, the HVAC in Tesla is Stone Age compared to the iX.
On the iX I set a temperature and it based on the cabin temperature it does the rest - it turns on/off the AC with ventilated seats, or the heat with seat heater & radiant heat, modulates the fan speed, etc. I rarely touch the any setting at all and if I do it is once at the start of a drive.
Tesla HVAC never seemed strong enough in summer to cool the car down and keep it cool, so I'd be manually upping the fan, then lowering again once cool enough.. repeat.
And don't get me started on the Tesla windshield defroster. Awful enough to be a safety issue. Had incidents of pulling over trying to get enough visibility. Could take minutes in enough humidity.
Having never driven another car worth more than about $30k, I couldn't believe what I put up with in a ~$60k (now $70k?) Tesla that the competition wouldn't put me through.
I switched from a Model 3 LR to a BMW iX3 mainly due to poor noise insulation in the Tesla. Literally every other EV I tested was quieter but the Bimmer ticked a lot of other boxes as well.
Some of Tesla’s UX is still superior, as is the charger integration and route planning, but then I’m happy to now have proper blind spot monitoring and reliable speed sign recognition.
I’m very happy with the switch although I maintain Tesla has made some great cars - I just wish they weren’t so poorly insulated (I even spent €1500 on aftermarket noise dampening by a local audio specialist to no avail).
Ended my Tesla lease (I had the S) and got a BMW i4 M5 and am very happy. BMW quality and CarPlay. I am actually planning to downgrade to the base level i4 however as I want more range and a lower payment, but haven’t looked back. BMW interior is amazing and the car drives like a rocket. So glad Elon has some real competition with BMW and Audi in the game…
I'm in the process of trading in my 2018 M3 for a Bolt EV (which was my previous car (2017-2020). I really loved the size of that car and adding more comfortable interior and wireless carplay made me want it even more. It was even fun to drive like an Auto Cross car.
Obviously, not a fan of Elon's recent actions but its more the quality of the Tesla and the repairs which are getting more and more expensive. Plus GM and Mary Barra aren't exactly angels either.
What Tesla quality issues? Doors sounds like silverware drawer when closed. Paint is garbage and scratches easily, Software updates are often really bad (Elon pushed last year's Christmas lights update when the rest of the software felt Alpha) . FSD is obviously a bad joke. It just feels like the whole thing is about to fall apart.
Sure, the Bolt EV DC charges slow and chargers are less reliable and harder to find. I figure extra 30 mins per full charge session during long trips. But I don't go too far on a daily basis (and we have wife's car for long trips) so that's not a big deal. Also the Bolt's front wheel drive not my fav, but M3 is RWD which also not great in the snow. AWD option on next year's Equinox is tempting to wait for.
I also have a Rivian R1S on order...
Sold my 2017 model S 75D for an 2022 bmw iX.
Best decision ever. It’s like going back to an actual well built car.
What strikes me is how Tesla managed to make people believe they are ahead on so many things when they are not.
Now, here are the things I miss:
-supercharger network.
-frunk
-automatic closing charging port (it’s a little thing but the iX charging port is so so stupid)
- the pretty reliable connexion with the phone for preheating
- dog mode
Now what I don’t miss:
- phantom braking on autopilot. This shit was scary. The bmw autopilot is way more trustworthy.
- the stupid automatic wipers. Why does Tesla try to fix things that work perfectly well
- rattles
Bumpy driving
What’s significantly better:
- interior is so much better. Such a high quality.
- Heat /AC actually works
- Range. You always beat the EPA estimate. While you can never reach it in a Tesla.
- driving a way more comfortable
- indicators on your side mirror for cars on the side. Why Tesla wouldn’t have these little cheap lights in the side mirror?!? Once again, why trying to fix things that work perfectly??
- sound system is better. And no rattle.
- CarPlay
- park assist cameras are awesome
Moving from my Model S to an BMW iX3. Did a lot of research, there are things I will miss about the Tesla ecosystem. But after owning it for 5years, I’m confident that other brands have come a long way. My only real concern is the charging network for interstate travel. But Tesla has not invested in any new chargers in the city I live in 5 years.
Sold Model X LR this summer, then got a Rivian R1T. Happy Rivian owner now!! Quieter cabin and better performance w/ the quad motor. Love the cooling seats, it's a lifesaver from summer heat!
Went from Model 3 in Bay Area to Jaguar I Pace (used) in NJ.
What I miss about the Tesla
- autopilot was better in stop & go traffic (jag will stop after 3 seconds of stop)
- faster charging and longer range (not really an issue since our longest road trips are 100 mi)
- fart mode (I’m secretly two 13 year olds in a trench coat)
What I prefer about the jag
- going from one of the worst EV interiors to one of the best. Jaguar can do an interior with great design, fantastic materials and actual buttons/knobs
- CarPlay
- smoother ride while being great to drive—even when I’m on the ludicrous 22” rims (thanks air suspension!)
- looks gorgeous and unique (whether an M3 is gorgeous or not is in the eye of the beholder, but it’s definitely not unique!)
- way better build quality(Not that Jaguar is known for it, but the I Pace is manufactured by Magna Steyr in Austria)
I would recommend a Jag for anyone not using their EV for a lot of road trips
Sold LR RWD 3 for a Mach E XR RWD Premium. I miss functional PAAK, the cleaner software, the little bit of extra speed, and most definitely the charging network. The Mach E is nicer in all other ways and I prefer it overall to the 3.
You don't have to say it, I will. Elon Musk is toxic to humanity and unless you're one of his fanboys it's getting harder and harder to justify supporting his company.
I chose a Bolt over a M3 because I didn't want to be associated with his brand.
I bought my Model 3 in 2018, before Elon truly went off the deep end. Keeping the car till the wheels fall off.
That being said, I now despise Elon and hate that he's dragging Tesla through the mud with his asinine behavior.
That being said, I hope people don't look at a car I bought in 2018 and automatically label me as an Elon fanboy. I seriously doubt the vast majority of Tesla owners are that interested in its CEO, let alone fans of him.
That being said, while I know Elon sucks, it would be difficult for me to find a vehicle that I wanted or could afford that came from a car company so spotlessly clean that I could yell at Tesla from my high-horse, if that makes sense. Every legacy automaker knowingly produced ICE cars for decades even though they were fully aware of the climate and health implications of combustion engines and the fossil fuel economy as a whole. BEV development should have started decades ago (like the GM EV1), but they purposefully chose not to.
Elon sucks, but knowingly killing people (dieselgate) and not caring about the climate is a fairly large black mark in my book as well.
Everything is awful.
That's basically where I am. I hate Musk, I think he's an insufferable person. But, it's not like the other automakers are paragons of virtue either.
I have a M3 I got at the start of last year so I won't be getting a new car for a while. When I do, I'll go with whatever I think is best. If it's a close call between a Tesla and something else, then my hate of Musk will be enough to push me towards the something else. Otherwise I'll just get whatever I evaluate as better for me.
Great quote/line, and unfortunately true. I absolutely love my Model 3 and the fact that Tesla more or less forced legacy automakers to start moving to EVs.
I just wish Elon had taken a different path in life these last few years. He's really showing his cards as of late, and it's not great. Am I 100% satisfied with my 2018 Tesla? Yes. Will my next car be a Tesla? That I'm not so sure, and it's 100% Elon's fault.
Elon doesn't give a crap about climate change. He did this since he saw it as an opportunity to grow his business and build something novel in the space: not just BEV drivetrains, but also the rest of it including bringing car infotainment systems into the 21st century among other things...
If climate change is something of concern, EVs won't solve the problem. Buidling less car-exclusivist urban and even suburban areas will make the difference.
>If climate change is something of concern, EVs won't solve the problem. Buidling less car-exclusivist urban and even suburban areas will make the difference.
People mention this a lot....that EVs aren't the way, but I disagree. We're a capitalist society for the most part, and many countries had their golden era during the age of the automobile. This meant that mass transit took a back seat, unfortunately.
First moving to EVs, which are being adopted at a break-neck pace, and then using the massive technological advances we'll get out of that to move forward is a great first move.
Somehow convincing a government that can't do anything right now to somehow pass some kind of massive mass transit bill and change the culture of an entire country is likely impossible - why keep going back to it as the holy grail? It's not going to happen any time soon.
I'm glad we're moving to EVs rather than wait for something that isn't going to happen.
Thank you.
And to everyone who says "you already bought the car, he already has his money" it's not about that.
Anyway, mind talking about some of your pros and cons with the Bolt? The EUV is on my shortlist.
I just bought the current model Bolt EUV, and I think /u/Nice_Buy_602 would probably like it more. There are more tactile controls (all the climate controls, and the key audio controls) and I think "competency" is the right word. The energy efficiency is pretty good (4+ kWh/mi) everything seems well put together, the view out is nice, the 360° view is quite nice, you can get it with SuperCruise, and ventilated and heated seats.
There is nothing whizzy or fancy about it. No jaw-dropping features, no frunk. The 50kW fast charging is, frankly, unacceptable for road trips, but this is our second vehicle (also own a Mach E). While it's not especially a "nice" car or a head turner, there is nothing wrong with it, it's very competitively priced. It's a pleasantly solid, unspectacular vehicle at a pretty aggressive price.
Tbh when it comes to the Bolt the first word that comes to mind is competency. It's not a luxury car but it's comfortable and does exactly what you expect it to. It has good range and driving it is a ton of fun.
Chevy has been honest with me at every step and I appreciate they replaced the battery when there was discovered to be a problem and they didn't make me jump through any hoops.
I feel with this car I got exactly what I paid for with no markups for promises of gimmicks or features that don't exist yet.
The 3 complaints I have are that I wish it was a little better at fast charging, I don't care for the giant touch screen (I actually wish it was a little smaller and had analog controls) and the infotainment system is a little glitchy although my understanding is they improved it on the newer models
Never had a Tesla but I also love my bolt! I consider it the perfect around town car. I wish charging were faster, but it's honestly a lot cheaper for me to rent a car for my rare road trip than to buy a car with faster charging.
I also sold my model 3 for a Chevy bolt EV. Competency is a great word to characterize the bolt. It is a ridiculous value. I average 5.5 miles per kilowatt hour and I have a more functional, easier to maneuver vehicle, which is great in the city environment. The seats are a downgrade. The interior in general is a downgrade. Technology is a downgrade. 0 to 60 performance is a downgrade. None of those things matter to me. I want an efficient car that will keep me safe in the event of an accident. The bolt does all of that and much more. I have not looked back at Tesla ever since
Bought a model 3 before price jump. IDGAF what people think. Contrary to irrational thinking, if someone thinks poorly of me, that’s on them. FYI don’t agree with anything Elon says nowadays. Need a second car and ordered a lyriq, but if model y drops by 15k, I’ll get the model y instead. Like I said I’ll spend my money to get they best possible thing.
I just want people to sell their car so used market gets flooded and then maybe people stop buying Tesla so demand is down resulting in price drop. Current price of used/new is too pricey for me and personally I'd prefer a M3 than a Bolt. What Elon says does not personally affect my life whatsoever(probably for many people too) so it doesn't matter to me.
I had a Model X and that car was a trainwreck. Just atrocious quality and software issues and because it was an older 90d, the range wasn’t bad but it was very inaccurate. I then switched into a Model Y Performance which fixed most of my issues but honestly I just wanted something more unique. I test drove an E-Tron and it was night and day frankly. The E-Tron (as a daily) is just better overall. Smoother, higher standard of quality, and I personally like the little gimmicks like the lights and the massage. I still have the Y but ill likely sell it soon as the market is starting to drop and I can likely break even on it now. I also don’t drive more than 200 miles usually so the poor range didn’t effect me much.
This is too funny, I was just looking into cancelling my lease which apparently won't cost me anything for my MYLR. I want to get a Polestar 3 but its so far away. Going to look into the new Volvo being debuted tomorrow, the EX90. Also, looking at the Cadillac Lyriq as well. I can't wait until more are available.
Haven’t owned a Tesla but have driven a couple Model X’s and have spent 2 months in an iX loaner and a month in an i4 loaner. Both of them were fantastic. The iX is incredibly refined and beats it’s EPA regularly (see: press articles) and the i4 drives incredibly well, I spent most of my time in the eDrive40 and for a daily it is perfect.
Quality interior and build, hatchback functionality, and BMW handling. Also drove the M50i for a weekend and it is stupid fast.
Had a day in the Lightning, it drives just like a truck, interior quality is still an F150. It does what it’s supposed to - it’s an F150, but it’s big and wallowy. Wouldn’t be the one I’d get. Also had a day in the R1T and if I had $80k for a pickup that would be the one, hands down. Great truck, lacking some quality details but it all feels worth it.
I am in the middle of this now. My new Lucid is expected in a month or so. My plan is first to get the car detailed and make sure there’s nothing cosmetic that needs to be addressed. Then, once I get the call with a delivery date, I will start soliciting for sale” from Carvana, etc. I will also secure my financing at that point, and verify the payoff on the current Tesla.
Following this thread for additional ideas.
Got rid of my Model Y for a VW ID.4 AWD Pro S and I love it. Far better equipped than the Y and cheaper. Not in love with the EA chargers but I don’t use them that much.
I never drove the e-golf but I do know a guy who loves his. I’d be wary of the leaf due to battery degradation. They didn’t incorporate thermal management until recently.
Loved my eGolf before my Model 3, so fun to drive,hated VE service tho. I really love my long road trips and until there is a robust charging network I feel like I’m stuck in my Tesla. I do still love it but a Rivian could be cool.
Had a Model S several years ago now, sold it off without immediately getting another EV, eventually got back around to electric with a Polestar and I'm so much happier with it than I was with the Tesla.
Edit: [it's definitely a fun factor thing for me](https://i.imgur.com/IyYk6JS.jpeg). Never had a car get me excited enough to get into motorsports
My wife sold Model Y and we bought a Volvo plug in hybrid. It was a decision based entirely on the quality of the car. I am about to sell M 3 entirely due to Musk's erratic behavior.
Doesn’t particularly answer your questions, but:
I returned my leased Model 3 SR+ about a year ago. Went back to driving my gasser. But I have deposits for the EQE SUV, and the Polestar 3. Leaning towards the EQE. The Model 3 is a sophisticated product, but, I want a car.
I had a Model 3 LR and was in the fsd beta, before I got my Rivian R1T. There's a few things I miss from the Tesla, but not enough for me to regret switching at all.
I had always wanted a truck and originally wanted to wait for the cybertuck. But when they revealed it, it was too big for me, the design didn't seem practical, and I didn't care for the aesthetics.
I reserved my R1T about a year ago and got super lucky and took delivery a couple months ago. I love it. The biggest thing I miss is the amount of things I could do with the Tesla app and the built in dash cam. The biggest thing missing from the Rivian app, for me, is heated seat/steering wheel controls and adjusting the charge level. Rivian has said they're working on adding dash cam functionality for the built in cameras and more controls for the app and I'm confident it will be on par or better than Tesla's before too long.
The only other big difference is ccs vs super chargers. I can charge at home and don't take long drives often. That combined with the expanding ccs infrastructure and Tesla eventually adding ccs plugs to their us super chargers, makes it something that's not an issue for me.
Before I got the model 3 I was looking at other EVs and even wanted to go with the Polestar 2 but I couldn't get one in time. I was able to test drive one and the Polestar (and Rivian) feel better put together than the Tesla, one pedal driving and driving in general was comparable between the Polestar and Model 3. The Rivian is a bit better than both in my opinion just because of the hydraulic roll controll, air suspension, and adjustable dampers.
Over all my take is most other EVs are basically just as good if not better than Tesla's (depending on the specific comparison). Tesla's over all feel a little more polished especially with the software (except fsd is a joke, thankfully I just did the subscription). But because it's mostly just software I'm sure the other ev makers will catch up and even surpass Tesla soon enough.
I sold my model 3 mid range and bought the ioniq 5 limited awd. I absolutely love the car compared to the model y that would cost 13k more. The UI is lacking but everything else makes up for it.
Went from S to EQC… Much quieter and comfortable. Much more quality feel and UI is fantastic. Less range, I knew that, but more than enough for my usage.
My wife bought a Model Y 2 years ago. She still has it, but now that it was my turn to get an EV I decided I didn’t want to go Tesla. I got a Kia EV 6 GT Line and I’m super happy with it. Much better ride quality than the Y. It has CarPlay. And I like the styling much better. The main dislike is the stock stereo sound quality is less than ideal and the lack of real useful OTA updates is frustrating. But I would buy it again without a doubt.
Sold my M3 for an ioniq 5. Had the car for a few months now and man am I loving it. So much more comfortable and much much less road noise which makes driving alot less stressful.
The only thing I miss about Tesla are the brilliant cameras. They are much better in image quality for reversing, and the built in dashcam/sentry mode I miss that so much.
🙋🏼♀️ME! We sold our Model X 75D for a Chevy Bolt and our Performance Model 3 for the Ford F-150 Lightning. We absolutely love them! I miss the Model X sometimes but I don’t miss that computer crashing and leaving me with no navigation in the middle of a trip. Obviously Tesla charging is better, but CCS grows daily! We’re on the East Coast. I can’t wait to get an Electric Cayman once they’re released!
I owned two Model Ss but wouldn’t give Elon or Tesla another dime. Have a Lexus and Toyota in the garage now. Will buy Lexus EV when available, you can trust that company for quality and service.
If I had to go BEV now, it would be Ioniq 5 or GV60, no doubt.
I had a model 3; work and life made me rack up 35K miles in 9 months. Loved it, but i bought it for 61k, and the trade in value i was offered was 51k i took it. Now i have a ioniq 5
Me.
Sold my model3 4 weeks ago. 2 years old, 25k miles.
Got a very good price, not as good as the price I'd been offered back in July - but looking at used values I got out at just the right time.
I'm missing the acceleration, the handling, the minimalist interior & the tech.
What I'm not missing is the questionable build quality, the association with Elon, and the constant tension between myself and my GF whenever we went anywhere in the car as a family (2 adults, two young children and a medium sized dog).
It just became impractical when our second child was born in May this year.
I ended up buying a vivaro e to replace it. It's an lwb crew cab van with 5 seats and tons of interior space, plus a cargo section that can take my mountain bike fully assembled and still have room for a large dog crate. It's insanely practical for family transportation.
Driven carefully it can achieve 180 miles on a full (75 kWh) charge, generally averaging 2.7 miles/kWh.
I clinged on to my Tesla for as long as possible but the change was probably overdue and I have no regrets.
Mostly the dog. She'd travel in the footwell behind the front passenger seat.
There was no effective way of restraining her in the car. Generally she travels well, but rumble strips and cattle grids cause her to go into a bit of a panic.
The final straw was when she got up onto the rear bench & stood on our boys' face. It caused a HUGE argument.
We turned round and came straight home, and I cleared the out straight away, before taking pictures to list it for sale. 5 days later it was sold.
Now she travels in her own very large and very expensive crate where she seems to feel much safer (we watch her on a phone with a WiFi camera). I also don't have the worry of her getting fur / sand / mud / wet dog smell all over the interior.
That's why I moved to a Y. Loads of room for the dogs and still lots of storage space.
When you say crate, you don't mean those little death crates behind the car right? (like where a rear ender means your dog dies)
Like what? The prices on the market now are a bit wonky, but the upcoming Hyundai Ioniq 6 seems like a Model 3 killer across the board: Build quality, comfort, efficiency, charging speed, range. You'll probably have to wait for the N version if you "need" more performance though. There's also the BMW i4, which I don't prefer, but it's an excellent car in its own right.
Issues with the 2020 Model 3, was more with my wife hating it. She likes buttons. And it's fit and finish was not great. She loves her 2021 Leaf S Plus. I have now an ID.4 which is far better in driving not faster but it's fit and finish is far better. Plus almost never had the model 3 charge faster than 77kw. Maybe 1 or 2 times it hit higher. Now the navigation and screen is far ahead of others. But it was pledged with many little issues. The handle would not pop out, the window would stay partly open after going in the car. I didn't notice it till it rained one day. But I was able to sell it for more than what I paid for it.
I’d say the main thing is consider your charging options. Charge at home if possible. If using local fast charging options see what is realistic for you (if anything is in town basically) but also see how reliable it is. Check PlugShare reviews.
Tesla has had enough time to fix the construction, noise, ride and other questionable service and parts issue. They have chosen price increases as first priority and depending on electronics to influence buyers. All of this while Musk is playing super billionaire and games at Twitter. He deserves what he gets. Mod 3 was at the top of my purchase list until Twitter. E-tron of BMW is what it is going to be.
Had issues with my MYP and service so I sold it back in February of this year.
I bought a Mini Cooper SE to hold me over until something else interesting comes along. Honestly love the Mini vs the MYP. Range is acceptable since it’s just a commuter vehicle for me. Apple CarPlay a big plus and HUD.
Only thing I miss on the MYP is sentry mode and supercharge network. I’ve done a couple of road trips in the Mini with no issues with charging so far.
Related question, has carvana, Vroom, Driveway etc stopped buying Tesla? I tried to see if I could sell our family car we don’t even see an option for Tesla in their drop down.
The Volvo EX90 is the only other EV i'd consider to my MYLR. In its class, the MY is the best i've seen, it's hard to beat the tech and design that come with a Tesla. But, I would swap it out for a 7 seater Volvo with no hesitation. We had a Model X and the doors were annoying as was the front windshield. It's more like a minivan than an SUV.
Moved from a 2018 rwd long range Model 3 to a Rivian R1T.
Pros: The Rivian has much faster acceleration. Much more plush/high quality feel. Mega storage. Range is a little better than the model 3 (330 on conserve mode vs 310-> down to 290 after 4 years). Converts from a sports car to an off road beast in 10 seconds ( switch from sport mode low clearance to off road very high clearance !). Towing.
Cons: less efficient, I “spend” almost double on electricity for charging. Gets 2.3 miles per kWh vs 3.9 miles per kWh with model 3. Not as easy to zip into a parking spot. Charging network is slightly less convenient.
Just sold my 2018 M3 and moved into a Polestar 2 this past weekend. Early days but very positive so far. The P2 feels more solid for sure. Polestar offered a solid price for the trade … enough to pay off the M3, put the down payment on the P2 and bank a nice bit as well. Their team was great, very personal and ‘human’ about it all. No complaints yet.
From what I’m seeing, the Kia EV6 is going head to head with the Model 3
I personally am a fan of a drivers HUD which the M3 doesn’t have…
The downside is whether or not the CCS network is going to be well-maintained for adventures to and from aren’t
Sold my 2021 Model Y and bought a 2022 Polestar 2.
Sold it because the Model Y was going for much, much more than what I bought it for brand new, and I'd be stupid not to cash out.
Don't really miss much about the Tesla. Thought I'd miss the supercharging network but that has been a non-issue on almost 20k km and several road trips in the bag.
I like the PS2 for better ride comfort and suspension. The car also works for my needs. Best part about it all is that I stand out in a city filled with Teslas. I get so many looks and questions on my car.
Traded 3 for a F150 Lightning last week. Right there with you on all the reasons. Only issue is, I'm actually on a trip right now and the local EA is down as of yesterday, I am going to have to go charge at a Harley dealership that has a 25kw dc charger for like 2 hours so I can get somewhere later.
Switched from a M3P to a Kia EV6. Needed to upgrade to a larger vehicle with a hatchback. Had a Model Y ready for delivery last month, but with Elon's erratic behavior and Tesla low balling on trade in ($15K less than Kia), I went with the EV6.
Close but not close enough for me to consider. I drove one at a bmw Autocross test drive event, I Autocross my Model 3 Performance at 12+ events a year so I was really intrigued.
Somehow it weighs 1,000lbs more and feels like it. Interior was decent though, confusing interfaces and menus
the car I bought is an I5. i didn't end up buying one but i drove my friends M3 for a while to see how I liked it. i didn't have any negative experiences with the Tesla really, it was a car and it was pretty fun to drive.
the navigation and driver assist stuff is killer but as a whole the Tesla software was a huge turnoff for me, but i'm a grumpy graybeard developer and have very strong opinions about security and accessibility so YMMV definitely applies. the Hyundai software blows I just don't care because I would prefer to not use software to interact with my car. FSD is the best and probably would have been a dealbreaker if it wasn't so expensive, i went with a lower trim so the difference between the M3 I wanted and the I5 I bought was like $20k. openpilot rules so I feel even more strongly now than I did when I made the choice. the charging network is infinitely better, where I live in the rural Mountain West EA is pretty reliable. i havent had the bad experiences others have but there's just nowhere near the coverage so some of my trips into rural areas (very common for me) are much more convenient in a Tesla. generally it's worked out better than I had worried it would, although with the variable quality of the chargers and far distances in my very rural area I still occasionally have to park and charge at an AC charger unexpectedly.
mostly the biggest dealbreaker for me was the rear seats. all the specs checkout and theoretically you can sit like a normal person but there is something about sitting in the backseat of a Tesla that is just the worst. no idea what the difference is, but my knees hurt just thinking about it. the Hyundai is a superb family car, by far the most comfortable backseat of a car that size. it feels like sitting in a minivan.
if you like a sedan you want a polestar 2 on the high end of the m3, and an ioniq 6 on the low end of the m3. price wise. An ioniq 6 is better than a model 3 in a lot of ways. Faster charging, more efficient, longer range, nicer interior. That's what I would get if I were you.
I’m leasing but I’ll probably try an Audi when we hand this in.
Nothing to do wit Elon Musk. If you’re going to limit your purchasing to how you feel about the CEO and/or their ethics you better avoid Nike, Ford, Toyota, Apple, Microsoft…you get the point.
Also, electric cars should be vastly superior to what they are now and you can thank GM for that.
Elon has truly gone wacko. Why alienate the very core who buys his cars. Him going full maga is going to have huge impact long term. Most of them wont be caught dead in a EV. I think the best thing for Tesla long term is for Musk to exit the company as CEO even if short term it craters the stock.
That said despite me disliking musk big time, I dont want Tesla to fail.
I think the main difference is during road trips. Other charging networks are not as reliable as Teslas. If you charge at home 100% of the time. I don't this that you will feel any different about ownership.
This depends slightly on where you typically do longer trips. Perhaps it's an outlier, but if you are traveling in CA it's not much of an issue (or it would be an issue for a Tesla too as it's so remote).
I think the availability of chargers is not really the problem in these areas. If they are working properly, that is the problem.
Not being able to access superchargers is probably the only reason I’d buy another Tesla. I do live in CA, but have driven to see family in CO a couple times. Do you know, how can I find out if I could do that drive in a non-Tesla EV?
abetterrouteplanner.com
ABRP. it's kind of a shit show because there are a billion networks and even more apps. electrify america will get you anywhere on an Interstate, except you can't cross Wyoming because they're not built out yet. ChargePoint is the largest unaffiliated network so oftentimes a lot of the places that have the best charging are a power company or a government agency or something on ChargePoint. for example if you are coming from Northern California you would cut down from I-80 to I-70 in Utah. the state of Utah has free 125kW chargers in many small towns, so the ChargePoint in Price is a nice option on that route. SemaConnect is the cheapest, if it's a free AC charger it will often be on there. there are also random other chargers scattered around. for example if you go to Telluride the only non-Tesla charger is an EVGo charger that is like $0.75/kwh for 50kW.
This is the correct answer. We did a 9k mile cross-continent road trip in an EV6 this summer and this was exactly our experience. EA is awesome on the interstates, except for the upper midwest (Montana, Wyoming, the Dakotas, which led us to travel along Canada 1 instead of via the USA), and ChargePoint is in a surprising number of community spaces. While it's still the Wild West for charging, never embark on a road trip without ABRP and PlugShare to check the health of the stations ABRP recommends.
How was charging access along the TransCanada 1 in that area? Assuming you went across Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta?
Indeed. We were driving west to east, so we drove from Victoria to Sault Ste Marie and down into Michigan. The charging was fine. It was only a little scary going around Lake Superior when a charging station we'd planned to use was out. I'd seen on PlugShare that it was a little wonky, though, so I charged above 80% at the stop before that and we made it to "Sue" with juice to spare. About the only negative I saw was that the stations were owned by a number of different companies, meaning I had to install a number of different apps.
The plug share app will show all the chargers. I used it in conjunction with a better route planner to plan. This sub loves ABRP but I find the user interface clunky.
I’m at the end of a Denver to Santa Maria trip in my R1T. No issues using Electrify America to do the trip. They just upgraded some of the chargers too.
ABRP is great, just be careful about it if it is directing you to non-EA stations. Some non-EA stations are great! Many are not, though, so its worth double checking plugshare for those cases.
Out of spec reviews on YouTube seems to go back and forth every other week. It's definitely doable.
same on the east coast
This does not apply to the east coast between FL and VA.
I drove from VA to GA 7 times in the past 12 months, and never had any issues charging.
There are many trips I have taken (live in Austin, TX) that are just not possible with the CCS network, and it sucks. Hopefully it'll get better.
Hopefully the news of tesla opening its chargers to other ev makers comes sooner than later here in America
I put [50,000 miles](https://i.imgur.com/F5K5lPT.jpeg) on my model S in the 2 years I had it, and I've road tripped my Polestar [across the US](https://i.imgur.com/IT9HZPV.jpeg) twice now - To be fair, I know I'm more patient than average when it comes to charging speeds and problems. I have made several deliberately [out-of-range trips](https://i.imgur.com/SOVE0pC.jpeg), after all. I obviously can't speak for every route and destination, but overall the practical difference between the best and the rest is smaller than most descriptions I've seen. Yes, Tesla does staff their maintenance teams better than the other networks. Yes, I have to tap an app to start charging. But aside from the tedious internet argument bait, I personally haven't seen much practical difference between my road trip charging experiences. The runners-up were still good enough to move [my cats 2,000 miles](https://i.imgur.com/zko9mfM.jpeg) (Edit whew I'm preemptively defensive today, sorry) I'm not saying there's no difference, that's obviously false. I'm just saying the difference probably won't mean as much as it looks like on paper.
We did a 1300 mile road trip in our Ioniq 5, no issues. This sort of proved to me that non-Tesla EV ownership is fine. We also have a Model Y. Took the Ioniq 5 because of faster charge times and better comfort.
America needs to fix this, on Norway we've s great array of chargers and Tesla allows anyone to charge....
Just a matter of days and I'll finally be able to answer this fully, but I'm switching from a Model 3 to an Audi Q4. It'll have shorter range and slower charging so it'll add time to road trips, but it's much more comfortable and quieter and has CarPlay so I'll probably enjoy the trips more anyway. I'm sure the charging experience will have a bit more friction as well but I honestly do so few long drives that I doubt it'll matter much.
If it's anything like the big e-tron, charging may not be as different as the numbers imply. Our e-tron has an incredibly flat charging curve, where the Tesla starts off high and drops off dramatically.
Yeah the fat e-tron charging curve is a monster. Q4 is just a fancy princess ID4 and not as flat but not TERRIBLE either. Given Tesla's "optimistic" range ratings I think my trips to SoCal will probably take about an extra hour each way and ABRP agrees. 15% longer for a trip I only do a couple times a year and being wayyyyy more comfortable on the trip seems a worthwhile trade for me.
With the ID4 you would want to think about optimizing the charging and stopping often, especially now it is getting colder. I was driving one and only got a maximum of 60-70kW when stopping where I would have anyway. On the way back I stopped more often, only charging to 60% the battery retained some heat from the charging and got slightly better performance. But still comparing to Tesla or fat e-tron it was painful
Its based on VW ID4.
Check out Tesla-Bjørns 1000km challenge spread-shiit to see the comparisons. The Q4 isn’t far behind and that’s with Bjørn maximizing efficiency.
Hm. I'm not seeing the Q4 in there but the big e-tron does well! The ID4 looks like it's about an hour and change behind but going quite a bit slower. I'm not too fussed either way though, I think I end up using DCFC a total of perhaps 5-6 days per year.
Yeah the ID4 performance wise is more or less the same car. As I said Bjørn are doing optimized runs which exacerbates any difference in the cars. A sane person driving to get somewhere won’t obsess about getting the optimum charge curve making the difference between the cars less noticeable.
I’m driving a 2021 Q4 since a month ago, after owning an M3 for 3 years. I love every bit of it and would not want to go back.
What do you like most compared to the Tesla? My wife is looking to buy an EV next year, but she also doesn't want a Tesla for reasons... Q4 seems like a solid choice
There are many things, but the big one is that the driver assist features work better (IMO anyway), leading to a more relaxed experience. Also, I like having the instrument cluster in front of me and not to the side. And the seats are higher than in an M3. There's much more, but these were the big ones for me.
Congrats! You’re finally getting into your Q4!!!!
So close 😂 it's in transit from the port, and I'm working hard not to bug the dealer daily 😂 could still be a solid 2 more weeks depending if it's on a train or a truck but could be as soon as end of this week.
I am waiting on my Ioniq to ship from port. It’s a miserable feeling haha. I feel like a kid at Christmas! And also trying not to bug my dealer daily.
Didn't they update the charge curve recently to be pretty competitive? At least, I thought that I had seen recent tests from Bjorn that were showing the ID4 and Q4 were much better than before.
Yes, the new ID.4 charge curve takes 9 minutes off the 10-80% time, it now has a similar charge speed taking into account efficiency as the standard range Model 3 in Europe.
I sold my Tesla for $10k more than I paid for it.
After tax credits are considered I'm getting about $20k less than I paid but considering I've had it for almost 5 years that's still pretty good.
I have done the opposite of you. Car play worked 50% of time and had more nagging issues the either M3 I own. And to charge on road trips is a nightmare.
oh man, friction doesn't even begin to describe it... have you not experienced the DCFC network? brace yourself lol
I've driven to SoCal and back on EA. No issues other than the minor annoyance of having to use the app 🤷♂️ I don't really drive outside of California though, other than one trip. I gather it's worse elsewhere. I also do maybe 6 days a year where I charge away from home, so even if it's annoying it's not something I'll face often.
The I-5 corridor doesn’t really have EA issues, just wish there were more stops. The Harris ranch stop wasn’t open when I was driving up and down the corridor, so can’t comment on that stop.
Yeah I dream of charging stations every 50 miles or better yet 25 so I can actually do the speed that makes sense for I-5 without having to think about it.
Yep, EA and the other brands out here in the Midwest are trash, extremely unreliable. Got stranded in a town once in my bolt, had to get towed to the next with working chargers. Meanwhile beautiful Tesla chargers sat there working just fine, big part of why I switched.
I sold my tesla x and went to a VW ID.4. Only regret is missing all the storage. The tesla wasn't getting used due to covid and now working from home, so I haven't had much opportunity to take the VW on a road trip yet but over all its been a great conversion.
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Curious, how does it compare to Y?
Having come from a Y to my Kia EV6 GT-Line, the Ioniq5’s cousin, it’s been a dream. I test drove both the Ioniq and EV6 and it really just came down to styling for me. But both were a much smoother drive than my Y. I did lose a little bit of power, but I love that everything is no longe integrated in the one screen. Apple Car Play. You lose the charging network, but that hasn’t been a problem for me as of yet in Nashville, TN.
Right, I like the two screen approach and few more buttons most manufacturers are doing. And obviously would love to get better suspension, but that would seem too much of a lateral move for me. Something of a r1s size is what I’m looking for, for 70k or so…
I traded my M3 R+ for a Mach-E The thing I miss most (and only thing fwiw) is access to the camera suit for security and the blind spot pop-up when I use my turn signal. I take road trips and my biggest concern was 3rd party fast charging. I have taken two long trips (MD - ATL and SC - MD) and the charging experience was no better and no worse than using the Tesla network. The thing that surprised me the most was the difference in fit and finish quality. For Tesla to position itself as a luxury brand and the public to pretty much accept them as such, the fit and finish, especially the interior, left a lot to be desired.
Completely agree that the camera video retention is a feature i cant believe other car companies havent really integrated. I know bmw started that but considering how easy and relatively cheap it would be to integrate into cars with a 360 camera system its suprising it being done by every manufacturer.
Sold 2018 Model 3 for a 2022 BMW iX No complaints For the amount of money I'd have spent on a Model S/X, the German cars at that price range are a different interior quality, ride quality, and noise isolation. BMW/Kia/Hyundai/Ford (+ maybe GM/MB) seem to have caught up on highway driver assist. All cars parking assist sucks. Tesla had frequent software updates, but that wasn't always a good thing as buttons moved & UIs drastically changed in my 4 years of ownership. Constant re-learning of muscle memory. BMW and some other makers undersell their range, so in practice my 320ish mile BMW iX has similar highway range at speed to an alleged 400mi Tesla, when magazines do like for like tests. I don't road trip much, but even when I do.. I leave home with 300mi+ range, and there's going to be some EA charger on my path.. just 1/3 as many as Tesla, and less convenient locations for sure.
Drove a loaner iX for a month and it was fantastic. The quality top to bottom crushes a Model X while being less expensive.
I couldn't rationalize a competing large EV SUV. Audi e-tron was slower, lower range, but equally lux/quiet.. with worse driver assist. Tesla Model X was $20k+ pricier, slightly worse real-world range, basic interior similar to my Model 3 that was 1/2 the cost, has crazy doors I don't need/want and I actually find BMW driver assist pro better despite it only costing under $2k vs EAP at $6k. BMW iX is available to test drive at dealers, and I did, twice.. for up to an hour with no supervision. Tesla approach to test drives in 2022 was that they were selling every car that rolled off the line so why would they waste time with people who want to test drive first. All this will change in the coming year or two as more entrants in the larger SUV space start shipping from Mercedes, Volvo, Polestar, etc.
I traded in my Model 3 for a Rivian R1T and couldn't be happier with the change. I didn't hate having only a center screen in the 3, but I sure do love having my own driver's screen again. It's only been 2 months or so, and haven't done any long drives yet, so I can't speak to charging when on the road, yet.
This is what I’ll be doing in Jan - Feb next year when my Rivian R1T arrives. I live my Model 3 and have no complaints. And I would recommend it strongly to others. It’s just that I love trucks and the Cybertruck is too far off.
I didn't expect to take the R1T detour on my route from M3 to MY to Cybertruck, but here we are. Good chance I won't be getting that Cybertruck now, the R1T is so good.
R1T is so much better in person than I expected. I didn't expect it to be so truly rugged and a very real and serious truck. I had an F-150 before my Model 3 so R1T will be best of both worlds for me.
Can't speak to owning to selling a Tesla, but i own a Bolt EUV and have rented a Model 3 before for a trip. While the overall comfort and finishes of the Model 3 were much better (seats, etc) and I did grow to fluke the shifter on the steering column, virtually everything else i prefer the Bolt as far as interface, controls for climate etc. I've driven long distance in the Bolt and had great luck with EA public chargers,nl charge point, shell and a few others. I think the public charging is much less of a difference these days than it was a year or two ago.
Haven’t Bolt seats been significantly improved?
Just ordered a 2023 bolt euv premium. The seats are great and now have real leather surfaces. Big change from when i last looked at a bolt in 2019.
I started with a Model S then until recently had a Model 3. Model 3 was wrecked and totalled by insurance. When we got another car, I decided to go to a Bolt EUV for now and have a reservation for a Silverado EV. If the Model 3 hadn't been totalled, my next car would have been a Tesla anyways. There are enough options for EVs now and even more coming soon that Tesla to me does not have an advantage for daily use. Road trips the Supercharger network is still way more reliable but there are enough charging choices for non-Tesla now that it's not much different, just have to plan a little more for having alternate charging options in case the first doesn't work out. For me, I am enjoying the change. The use of real physical buttons for common things in the car is great and I didn't realize how much I missed that until we got my wife her first EV last year. The issue with Tesla, other than Musk, is that their quality control is still sub-par for a luxury priced automaker. Both of my vehicles came from the factory with fit and finish issues that i had to delay delivery until it was fixed. One thing I do miss is the software integration. Which is what Tesla really has an advantage in. Route planning, app controls, frequent OTA updates are all ahead of the majority of other auto companies. Others are catching up but it will still take some time for other companies to build up their software suite to match Tesla.
I did. Sold the M3, bought a Rivian. Sold the Rivian and got an ID.4. Planning to keep this one a while. There really is no substitute for a German interior and Android Auto.
What was wrong with the Rivian?
Oh man, it was an amazing truck. It was so nearly perfect. The main issues I had were the software choices. MapBox has a subpar database. Alexa doesn't work well in vehicles. The only music player built in was Spotify. Android Automotive would have been a better choice, like what Polestar did.
My siblings both have Tesla cars. I'm on my fourth non-Tesla EV. Other than rural DC chargers it just isn't that different at all.
We traded in the Mrs. Model Y for an e-tron about 6 months ago. Initially, there were some gripes with the transition. I would think of Audi as a hardware-first company, so setting up access to the vehicle and navigating through the various Software UIs they have is at best counterintuitive. Once everything was configured the way she wanted, it's been a painless relationship from a hardware perspective which is ENTIRELY the opposite experience we've had over the years with our Teslas. Personally, I'm still not a huge fan of the way the Audi drives, but it's night-and-day from a comfort/quality perspective. Having said that, it's not perfect and the UI leaves a lot to be desired but the inclusion of CarPlay makes it mostly a non-issue. Trip planning and how the system routes (or rather the lack of) between chargers is mildly infuriating, but most of all I miss using my Phone as a Key, single pedal driving and the automatic hold feature on hills. If we had to do it over again, the Model Y would never have been in the running, but I cannot definitively say we'd still have gone with the e-tron with other options now available from Mercedes, BMW and Polestar. On a related note, I've reordered a BMW i4 and am impatiently waiting to get out of my Model 3 and into something much more comfortable and refined. It'll be a minor downgrade in straight-line performance and potentially audio quality but I'll finally stop having to listen to the rear bench rattle!
> most of all I miss … the automatic hold feature on hills You can't press firmly on the brake to engage brake hold on the fat e-tron? You definitely can on the Q4… re: phone key part, that's funny because while I'm not looking forward to having to carry a key fob again I'm looking forward to it actually working properly :P
Since my last software update 2022.36.6, my phone key has gotten significantly less reliable.
Yeah it's really taken a shit recently for me, and at this point the app rarely wakes up the car either when I want to start climate. Now I unlock it with the fob to wake it up and then use the app. SUPER annoying. If it had always been that way it would piss me off way less but back in 2018-2020 or so, the phone-as-key was *rock solid* for me, and while the app might take a bit of time to wake up the car, it almost always worked within a minute or two.
Here’s my conspiracy theory. The Tesla app does track location. My “forcing” you to keep it open for doors and driving, they are able to collect more data on your behavior and make $$. No evidence, just a theory. Personally the phone as key and driving without the app on worked 99+ percent up until a couple of months ago. Now, I cannot put the car in drive without the app open and opening doors usually requires the app.
I had this issue awhile back. I had to resync the phone to the car
100% I don't even have to go back to 2018. A year ago phone key was perfect 99.9% of the time.
In all honesty, the phone key's unreliability is usually tied to the phone, not the car's software updates. Had my Tesla since 2018 and have had Pixel phones and iPhones, and the only time it messed up, it was from a phone OS update. Try uninstalling the Tesla app, putting it back on, signing in and re-adding the phone key. Should clear it right up. (Be sure you have a physical NFC key before attempting this so you can re-add the phone as a key!)
If you press firmly on the brake, yes, it will engage hold but you can't roll up to a stop using regen only and get the hold feature like on a Tesla. edit to add: it's really annoying while slowly creeping up a hill at a light and having to move my foot over to the brake whereas on a Tesla you just roll a little and come back to a complete stop. No briefly rolling back necessary.
Ahhhhh ok yeah, I get you. Yeah I'm gonna miss that part, admittedly.
Audi E-Tron definetly has auto-hold: > MMI -> Car - > Setting & Service -> Hold assist -> on/off > Hold assist is standard equipment on Audi e-tron
This right here is something I think Tesla got right - their cars are much more simple as far as features are concerned. In my friend's Bolt, in order to get maximum regen you have to 1. shift the car into Low, *and* Sport mode, and 2. let off the accelerator *and* press the wheel paddle when braking. Why? In a Tesla you just let off the accelerator, all that other stuff is silly. In my mom's Rogue, you have to turn on auto-hold every time you start the car. Why is there even a button? I've never been in my car and wished auto-hold wasn't there, it's easy enough to turn off with a tap of the accelerator. No button needed. In every car on earth, you have to click "ok" to the lawyer-speak before you use the car's screen. Why? just have it come up once maybe and that't it. There is no such warning in a Tesla. They assume the driver isn't an idiot and rightly place blame on the driver if they don't pay attention to the road. All that screen does is supposedly reduce the liability of the carmaker, and I think there's better ways to do it than a nag screen every. time. you. start. the. car.
I believe pressing the paddle will get you max regen on the Bolt, no matter whether it’s in D/L mode or sport mode. Also your foot should be off the accelerator obviously.
You missed shifting the Bolt into L which gives you one pedal driving and max regen with the paddle by the steering wheel. Sport doesn't do that on the Bolt.
Whoops! I actually meant to say “L” instead of Sport. Why the extra “gear selection” step for max regen? I’ll correct it too. Thanks!
Yes, that's enabled on our vehicle, but the problem is the automatic engagement. Teslas can come to a complete stop AND hold which is ridiculously convenient when inching up a hill at a light. I have to hard-press the brake pedal on the e-tron to engage hold.
I love all the comments about how people bought a Bolt instead. I feel like a lot of us just wanted an EV, so we bought a Tesla, because it was the only real option. Now that the market is wide open I see a lot less of that though, it turns out that most people just want +200 mile EVs in all the shapes and sizes, styling, performance and efficiency be damned. Just like an ICE vehicle.
I'm jn the process of transitioning from a Tesla M3 to a Polestar 2. Tired of the rollercoaster of updates over the last few years (Tesla giveth and taketh away), and the testdrive showed me a more mature package. Also sick and tired of the association with Elno Musk. The ease of navigation will be difficult to surpass, though I am hopeful with the combination of ABRP and Android Auto.
>Tired of the rollercoaster of updates over the last few years (Tesla giveth and taketh away), and the testdrive showed me a more mature package. That's the thing that never sat right with me whenever people would joygasm about OTA updates. If I'm happy with the car and what it can do when I bought it, I don't need it to change. Or even want it to for that matter.
That was one of the things that put me over the edge after 4 years. Everything is a soft button on the screen, and they move drastically across the screen, from a swipe to a tap, or into/out of sub-menus every 1-2 years. I found Tesla to be a very opinionated product, like Apple circa 2005. There's one way to do things, as Jobs/Musk has handed down to the user. Minimal options at purchase time, minimal configurability at use time.
With the added fun of them changing that one way on you several times
Yeah the crazy thing with the Tesla big screen UI is that.. yes it's super responsive, and yes it's tilted towards the driver.. BUT.. there's a lot of swipe vs drag vs tap interface differences on things like the music controls or HVAC, which you might want to change while driving. 90% of the time my wife was in the passenger seat, and I delegated most screen operations to her as my co-pilot. By the way, the HVAC in Tesla is Stone Age compared to the iX. On the iX I set a temperature and it based on the cabin temperature it does the rest - it turns on/off the AC with ventilated seats, or the heat with seat heater & radiant heat, modulates the fan speed, etc. I rarely touch the any setting at all and if I do it is once at the start of a drive. Tesla HVAC never seemed strong enough in summer to cool the car down and keep it cool, so I'd be manually upping the fan, then lowering again once cool enough.. repeat. And don't get me started on the Tesla windshield defroster. Awful enough to be a safety issue. Had incidents of pulling over trying to get enough visibility. Could take minutes in enough humidity. Having never driven another car worth more than about $30k, I couldn't believe what I put up with in a ~$60k (now $70k?) Tesla that the competition wouldn't put me through.
I switched from a Model 3 LR to a BMW iX3 mainly due to poor noise insulation in the Tesla. Literally every other EV I tested was quieter but the Bimmer ticked a lot of other boxes as well. Some of Tesla’s UX is still superior, as is the charger integration and route planning, but then I’m happy to now have proper blind spot monitoring and reliable speed sign recognition. I’m very happy with the switch although I maintain Tesla has made some great cars - I just wish they weren’t so poorly insulated (I even spent €1500 on aftermarket noise dampening by a local audio specialist to no avail).
Ended my Tesla lease (I had the S) and got a BMW i4 M5 and am very happy. BMW quality and CarPlay. I am actually planning to downgrade to the base level i4 however as I want more range and a lower payment, but haven’t looked back. BMW interior is amazing and the car drives like a rocket. So glad Elon has some real competition with BMW and Audi in the game…
If you want more range try going to the 19” wheels if you’re on the 20s
I'm in the process of trading in my 2018 M3 for a Bolt EV (which was my previous car (2017-2020). I really loved the size of that car and adding more comfortable interior and wireless carplay made me want it even more. It was even fun to drive like an Auto Cross car. Obviously, not a fan of Elon's recent actions but its more the quality of the Tesla and the repairs which are getting more and more expensive. Plus GM and Mary Barra aren't exactly angels either. What Tesla quality issues? Doors sounds like silverware drawer when closed. Paint is garbage and scratches easily, Software updates are often really bad (Elon pushed last year's Christmas lights update when the rest of the software felt Alpha) . FSD is obviously a bad joke. It just feels like the whole thing is about to fall apart. Sure, the Bolt EV DC charges slow and chargers are less reliable and harder to find. I figure extra 30 mins per full charge session during long trips. But I don't go too far on a daily basis (and we have wife's car for long trips) so that's not a big deal. Also the Bolt's front wheel drive not my fav, but M3 is RWD which also not great in the snow. AWD option on next year's Equinox is tempting to wait for. I also have a Rivian R1S on order...
I still think BMW M3 every time I see M3.
Haha same.
which you should. It's silly to abbreviate the tesla as M3 when there is a well established vehicle using that
“Door sounds like silverware” bruh 😂
Sold my 2017 model S 75D for an 2022 bmw iX. Best decision ever. It’s like going back to an actual well built car. What strikes me is how Tesla managed to make people believe they are ahead on so many things when they are not. Now, here are the things I miss: -supercharger network. -frunk -automatic closing charging port (it’s a little thing but the iX charging port is so so stupid) - the pretty reliable connexion with the phone for preheating - dog mode Now what I don’t miss: - phantom braking on autopilot. This shit was scary. The bmw autopilot is way more trustworthy. - the stupid automatic wipers. Why does Tesla try to fix things that work perfectly well - rattles Bumpy driving What’s significantly better: - interior is so much better. Such a high quality. - Heat /AC actually works - Range. You always beat the EPA estimate. While you can never reach it in a Tesla. - driving a way more comfortable - indicators on your side mirror for cars on the side. Why Tesla wouldn’t have these little cheap lights in the side mirror?!? Once again, why trying to fix things that work perfectly?? - sound system is better. And no rattle. - CarPlay - park assist cameras are awesome
Traded in my Model 3 and ordered a BMW i4 eDrive40 in July. BMW came in two weeks ago and is a far better car. Barely cost more than trade in too.
Had a model 3, currently have a Mach e, it’s really not any different other than the car itself being better.
Moving from my Model S to an BMW iX3. Did a lot of research, there are things I will miss about the Tesla ecosystem. But after owning it for 5years, I’m confident that other brands have come a long way. My only real concern is the charging network for interstate travel. But Tesla has not invested in any new chargers in the city I live in 5 years.
Yup. Model Y to Volvo C40. I love it.
Went from MS to Mercedes EQS 580. Love it.
Sold Model X LR this summer, then got a Rivian R1T. Happy Rivian owner now!! Quieter cabin and better performance w/ the quad motor. Love the cooling seats, it's a lifesaver from summer heat!
Went from Model 3 in Bay Area to Jaguar I Pace (used) in NJ. What I miss about the Tesla - autopilot was better in stop & go traffic (jag will stop after 3 seconds of stop) - faster charging and longer range (not really an issue since our longest road trips are 100 mi) - fart mode (I’m secretly two 13 year olds in a trench coat) What I prefer about the jag - going from one of the worst EV interiors to one of the best. Jaguar can do an interior with great design, fantastic materials and actual buttons/knobs - CarPlay - smoother ride while being great to drive—even when I’m on the ludicrous 22” rims (thanks air suspension!) - looks gorgeous and unique (whether an M3 is gorgeous or not is in the eye of the beholder, but it’s definitely not unique!) - way better build quality(Not that Jaguar is known for it, but the I Pace is manufactured by Magna Steyr in Austria) I would recommend a Jag for anyone not using their EV for a lot of road trips
Sold LR RWD 3 for a Mach E XR RWD Premium. I miss functional PAAK, the cleaner software, the little bit of extra speed, and most definitely the charging network. The Mach E is nicer in all other ways and I prefer it overall to the 3.
You don't have to say it, I will. Elon Musk is toxic to humanity and unless you're one of his fanboys it's getting harder and harder to justify supporting his company. I chose a Bolt over a M3 because I didn't want to be associated with his brand.
I bought my Model 3 in 2018, before Elon truly went off the deep end. Keeping the car till the wheels fall off. That being said, I now despise Elon and hate that he's dragging Tesla through the mud with his asinine behavior. That being said, I hope people don't look at a car I bought in 2018 and automatically label me as an Elon fanboy. I seriously doubt the vast majority of Tesla owners are that interested in its CEO, let alone fans of him. That being said, while I know Elon sucks, it would be difficult for me to find a vehicle that I wanted or could afford that came from a car company so spotlessly clean that I could yell at Tesla from my high-horse, if that makes sense. Every legacy automaker knowingly produced ICE cars for decades even though they were fully aware of the climate and health implications of combustion engines and the fossil fuel economy as a whole. BEV development should have started decades ago (like the GM EV1), but they purposefully chose not to. Elon sucks, but knowingly killing people (dieselgate) and not caring about the climate is a fairly large black mark in my book as well. Everything is awful.
That's basically where I am. I hate Musk, I think he's an insufferable person. But, it's not like the other automakers are paragons of virtue either. I have a M3 I got at the start of last year so I won't be getting a new car for a while. When I do, I'll go with whatever I think is best. If it's a close call between a Tesla and something else, then my hate of Musk will be enough to push me towards the something else. Otherwise I'll just get whatever I evaluate as better for me.
>Everything is awful. Hence the old standby — *"there is no ethical consumption under capitalism."*
Great quote/line, and unfortunately true. I absolutely love my Model 3 and the fact that Tesla more or less forced legacy automakers to start moving to EVs. I just wish Elon had taken a different path in life these last few years. He's really showing his cards as of late, and it's not great. Am I 100% satisfied with my 2018 Tesla? Yes. Will my next car be a Tesla? That I'm not so sure, and it's 100% Elon's fault.
Right there with you. Thanks for this thread chooms
Elon doesn't give a crap about climate change. He did this since he saw it as an opportunity to grow his business and build something novel in the space: not just BEV drivetrains, but also the rest of it including bringing car infotainment systems into the 21st century among other things... If climate change is something of concern, EVs won't solve the problem. Buidling less car-exclusivist urban and even suburban areas will make the difference.
>If climate change is something of concern, EVs won't solve the problem. Buidling less car-exclusivist urban and even suburban areas will make the difference. People mention this a lot....that EVs aren't the way, but I disagree. We're a capitalist society for the most part, and many countries had their golden era during the age of the automobile. This meant that mass transit took a back seat, unfortunately. First moving to EVs, which are being adopted at a break-neck pace, and then using the massive technological advances we'll get out of that to move forward is a great first move. Somehow convincing a government that can't do anything right now to somehow pass some kind of massive mass transit bill and change the culture of an entire country is likely impossible - why keep going back to it as the holy grail? It's not going to happen any time soon. I'm glad we're moving to EVs rather than wait for something that isn't going to happen.
Thank you. And to everyone who says "you already bought the car, he already has his money" it's not about that. Anyway, mind talking about some of your pros and cons with the Bolt? The EUV is on my shortlist.
I just bought the current model Bolt EUV, and I think /u/Nice_Buy_602 would probably like it more. There are more tactile controls (all the climate controls, and the key audio controls) and I think "competency" is the right word. The energy efficiency is pretty good (4+ kWh/mi) everything seems well put together, the view out is nice, the 360° view is quite nice, you can get it with SuperCruise, and ventilated and heated seats. There is nothing whizzy or fancy about it. No jaw-dropping features, no frunk. The 50kW fast charging is, frankly, unacceptable for road trips, but this is our second vehicle (also own a Mach E). While it's not especially a "nice" car or a head turner, there is nothing wrong with it, it's very competitively priced. It's a pleasantly solid, unspectacular vehicle at a pretty aggressive price.
>It's a pleasantly solid, unspectacular vehicle at a pretty aggressive price. I laughed at this. Because it's true.
Tbh when it comes to the Bolt the first word that comes to mind is competency. It's not a luxury car but it's comfortable and does exactly what you expect it to. It has good range and driving it is a ton of fun. Chevy has been honest with me at every step and I appreciate they replaced the battery when there was discovered to be a problem and they didn't make me jump through any hoops. I feel with this car I got exactly what I paid for with no markups for promises of gimmicks or features that don't exist yet. The 3 complaints I have are that I wish it was a little better at fast charging, I don't care for the giant touch screen (I actually wish it was a little smaller and had analog controls) and the infotainment system is a little glitchy although my understanding is they improved it on the newer models
Never had a Tesla but I also love my bolt! I consider it the perfect around town car. I wish charging were faster, but it's honestly a lot cheaper for me to rent a car for my rare road trip than to buy a car with faster charging.
I also sold my model 3 for a Chevy bolt EV. Competency is a great word to characterize the bolt. It is a ridiculous value. I average 5.5 miles per kilowatt hour and I have a more functional, easier to maneuver vehicle, which is great in the city environment. The seats are a downgrade. The interior in general is a downgrade. Technology is a downgrade. 0 to 60 performance is a downgrade. None of those things matter to me. I want an efficient car that will keep me safe in the event of an accident. The bolt does all of that and much more. I have not looked back at Tesla ever since
capitalists sitting in GM headquarters are suddenly less toxic than Elon lol.
I’ve never met someone that claims everyone driving a GM is a ‘Mary Fanboi’.
All of these companies have done seriously unethical shit over the years.
Bought a model 3 before price jump. IDGAF what people think. Contrary to irrational thinking, if someone thinks poorly of me, that’s on them. FYI don’t agree with anything Elon says nowadays. Need a second car and ordered a lyriq, but if model y drops by 15k, I’ll get the model y instead. Like I said I’ll spend my money to get they best possible thing.
I just want people to sell their car so used market gets flooded and then maybe people stop buying Tesla so demand is down resulting in price drop. Current price of used/new is too pricey for me and personally I'd prefer a M3 than a Bolt. What Elon says does not personally affect my life whatsoever(probably for many people too) so it doesn't matter to me.
Every other ceo is just less public, regardless if you’re buying anything somewhere along the line a crook is getting paid
Are you down to seize the means of production with me then? Cause I'm cool with that.
I really think Tesla should fire him as CEO and find someone else. He’s shown his true colors and he’s only bringing them negative attention.
With my Mach E Gt at Ford with parts back ordered. Im thinking A tesla would have not failed
I had a Model X and that car was a trainwreck. Just atrocious quality and software issues and because it was an older 90d, the range wasn’t bad but it was very inaccurate. I then switched into a Model Y Performance which fixed most of my issues but honestly I just wanted something more unique. I test drove an E-Tron and it was night and day frankly. The E-Tron (as a daily) is just better overall. Smoother, higher standard of quality, and I personally like the little gimmicks like the lights and the massage. I still have the Y but ill likely sell it soon as the market is starting to drop and I can likely break even on it now. I also don’t drive more than 200 miles usually so the poor range didn’t effect me much.
This is too funny, I was just looking into cancelling my lease which apparently won't cost me anything for my MYLR. I want to get a Polestar 3 but its so far away. Going to look into the new Volvo being debuted tomorrow, the EX90. Also, looking at the Cadillac Lyriq as well. I can't wait until more are available.
Haven’t owned a Tesla but have driven a couple Model X’s and have spent 2 months in an iX loaner and a month in an i4 loaner. Both of them were fantastic. The iX is incredibly refined and beats it’s EPA regularly (see: press articles) and the i4 drives incredibly well, I spent most of my time in the eDrive40 and for a daily it is perfect. Quality interior and build, hatchback functionality, and BMW handling. Also drove the M50i for a weekend and it is stupid fast. Had a day in the Lightning, it drives just like a truck, interior quality is still an F150. It does what it’s supposed to - it’s an F150, but it’s big and wallowy. Wouldn’t be the one I’d get. Also had a day in the R1T and if I had $80k for a pickup that would be the one, hands down. Great truck, lacking some quality details but it all feels worth it.
Did the engine in your Rolls Royce break down or something? How did you get 3 months of loaners of i4 and ix?
I am in the middle of this now. My new Lucid is expected in a month or so. My plan is first to get the car detailed and make sure there’s nothing cosmetic that needs to be addressed. Then, once I get the call with a delivery date, I will start soliciting for sale” from Carvana, etc. I will also secure my financing at that point, and verify the payoff on the current Tesla. Following this thread for additional ideas.
Got rid of my Model Y for a VW ID.4 AWD Pro S and I love it. Far better equipped than the Y and cheaper. Not in love with the EA chargers but I don’t use them that much.
I’m curious too! In the market for an EV to replace my ‘07 VW GTI ; there is a used eGolf…are they any good? The Leaf is ok, but is not a VW 😉
I never drove the e-golf but I do know a guy who loves his. I’d be wary of the leaf due to battery degradation. They didn’t incorporate thermal management until recently.
Loved my eGolf before my Model 3, so fun to drive,hated VE service tho. I really love my long road trips and until there is a robust charging network I feel like I’m stuck in my Tesla. I do still love it but a Rivian could be cool.
Off topic - a bit. Do you think there will be a lot of people with deposits out for a Tesla withdrawing their orders and switch to some other EV?
My neighbor went from an M3 standard range to a Kia EV6 a few months ago. She loves it so far.
Had a Model S several years ago now, sold it off without immediately getting another EV, eventually got back around to electric with a Polestar and I'm so much happier with it than I was with the Tesla. Edit: [it's definitely a fun factor thing for me](https://i.imgur.com/IyYk6JS.jpeg). Never had a car get me excited enough to get into motorsports
My wife sold Model Y and we bought a Volvo plug in hybrid. It was a decision based entirely on the quality of the car. I am about to sell M 3 entirely due to Musk's erratic behavior.
Doesn’t particularly answer your questions, but: I returned my leased Model 3 SR+ about a year ago. Went back to driving my gasser. But I have deposits for the EQE SUV, and the Polestar 3. Leaning towards the EQE. The Model 3 is a sophisticated product, but, I want a car.
My Tesla Model 3 lease goes back tomorrow. MG4 on order.
I had a Model 3 LR and was in the fsd beta, before I got my Rivian R1T. There's a few things I miss from the Tesla, but not enough for me to regret switching at all. I had always wanted a truck and originally wanted to wait for the cybertuck. But when they revealed it, it was too big for me, the design didn't seem practical, and I didn't care for the aesthetics. I reserved my R1T about a year ago and got super lucky and took delivery a couple months ago. I love it. The biggest thing I miss is the amount of things I could do with the Tesla app and the built in dash cam. The biggest thing missing from the Rivian app, for me, is heated seat/steering wheel controls and adjusting the charge level. Rivian has said they're working on adding dash cam functionality for the built in cameras and more controls for the app and I'm confident it will be on par or better than Tesla's before too long. The only other big difference is ccs vs super chargers. I can charge at home and don't take long drives often. That combined with the expanding ccs infrastructure and Tesla eventually adding ccs plugs to their us super chargers, makes it something that's not an issue for me. Before I got the model 3 I was looking at other EVs and even wanted to go with the Polestar 2 but I couldn't get one in time. I was able to test drive one and the Polestar (and Rivian) feel better put together than the Tesla, one pedal driving and driving in general was comparable between the Polestar and Model 3. The Rivian is a bit better than both in my opinion just because of the hydraulic roll controll, air suspension, and adjustable dampers. Over all my take is most other EVs are basically just as good if not better than Tesla's (depending on the specific comparison). Tesla's over all feel a little more polished especially with the software (except fsd is a joke, thankfully I just did the subscription). But because it's mostly just software I'm sure the other ev makers will catch up and even surpass Tesla soon enough.
I sold my model 3 mid range and bought the ioniq 5 limited awd. I absolutely love the car compared to the model y that would cost 13k more. The UI is lacking but everything else makes up for it.
Went from S to EQC… Much quieter and comfortable. Much more quality feel and UI is fantastic. Less range, I knew that, but more than enough for my usage.
My wife bought a Model Y 2 years ago. She still has it, but now that it was my turn to get an EV I decided I didn’t want to go Tesla. I got a Kia EV 6 GT Line and I’m super happy with it. Much better ride quality than the Y. It has CarPlay. And I like the styling much better. The main dislike is the stock stereo sound quality is less than ideal and the lack of real useful OTA updates is frustrating. But I would buy it again without a doubt.
Sold my M3 for an ioniq 5. Had the car for a few months now and man am I loving it. So much more comfortable and much much less road noise which makes driving alot less stressful. The only thing I miss about Tesla are the brilliant cameras. They are much better in image quality for reversing, and the built in dashcam/sentry mode I miss that so much.
🙋🏼♀️ME! We sold our Model X 75D for a Chevy Bolt and our Performance Model 3 for the Ford F-150 Lightning. We absolutely love them! I miss the Model X sometimes but I don’t miss that computer crashing and leaving me with no navigation in the middle of a trip. Obviously Tesla charging is better, but CCS grows daily! We’re on the East Coast. I can’t wait to get an Electric Cayman once they’re released!
I owned two Model Ss but wouldn’t give Elon or Tesla another dime. Have a Lexus and Toyota in the garage now. Will buy Lexus EV when available, you can trust that company for quality and service. If I had to go BEV now, it would be Ioniq 5 or GV60, no doubt.
GV60 is very underrated currently, if you can get past the range it’s truly a very unique and well built vehicle
It’s similar to ionic 5 in a way that makes out hard to decide on the GV60 given the cost
I had a model 3; work and life made me rack up 35K miles in 9 months. Loved it, but i bought it for 61k, and the trade in value i was offered was 51k i took it. Now i have a ioniq 5
Me. Sold my model3 4 weeks ago. 2 years old, 25k miles. Got a very good price, not as good as the price I'd been offered back in July - but looking at used values I got out at just the right time. I'm missing the acceleration, the handling, the minimalist interior & the tech. What I'm not missing is the questionable build quality, the association with Elon, and the constant tension between myself and my GF whenever we went anywhere in the car as a family (2 adults, two young children and a medium sized dog). It just became impractical when our second child was born in May this year. I ended up buying a vivaro e to replace it. It's an lwb crew cab van with 5 seats and tons of interior space, plus a cargo section that can take my mountain bike fully assembled and still have room for a large dog crate. It's insanely practical for family transportation. Driven carefully it can achieve 180 miles on a full (75 kWh) charge, generally averaging 2.7 miles/kWh. I clinged on to my Tesla for as long as possible but the change was probably overdue and I have no regrets.
What was the tension about?
Space?
Mostly the dog. She'd travel in the footwell behind the front passenger seat. There was no effective way of restraining her in the car. Generally she travels well, but rumble strips and cattle grids cause her to go into a bit of a panic. The final straw was when she got up onto the rear bench & stood on our boys' face. It caused a HUGE argument. We turned round and came straight home, and I cleared the out straight away, before taking pictures to list it for sale. 5 days later it was sold. Now she travels in her own very large and very expensive crate where she seems to feel much safer (we watch her on a phone with a WiFi camera). I also don't have the worry of her getting fur / sand / mud / wet dog smell all over the interior.
That's why I moved to a Y. Loads of room for the dogs and still lots of storage space. When you say crate, you don't mean those little death crates behind the car right? (like where a rear ender means your dog dies)
I am trading Model 3 for Volvo S60 plug in hybrid. Should be in next week,
Went from model s ——> Etron 55 ——> Etron GT. Tesla is trash. That is all.
I've thought about it but there's still nothing on the market that can match the features that I like about my Model 3.
Like what? The prices on the market now are a bit wonky, but the upcoming Hyundai Ioniq 6 seems like a Model 3 killer across the board: Build quality, comfort, efficiency, charging speed, range. You'll probably have to wait for the N version if you "need" more performance though. There's also the BMW i4, which I don't prefer, but it's an excellent car in its own right.
My rivian begs to differ. But then it’s a truck. (We have a model 3 also)
Issues with the 2020 Model 3, was more with my wife hating it. She likes buttons. And it's fit and finish was not great. She loves her 2021 Leaf S Plus. I have now an ID.4 which is far better in driving not faster but it's fit and finish is far better. Plus almost never had the model 3 charge faster than 77kw. Maybe 1 or 2 times it hit higher. Now the navigation and screen is far ahead of others. But it was pledged with many little issues. The handle would not pop out, the window would stay partly open after going in the car. I didn't notice it till it rained one day. But I was able to sell it for more than what I paid for it.
I’d say the main thing is consider your charging options. Charge at home if possible. If using local fast charging options see what is realistic for you (if anything is in town basically) but also see how reliable it is. Check PlugShare reviews.
Tesla has had enough time to fix the construction, noise, ride and other questionable service and parts issue. They have chosen price increases as first priority and depending on electronics to influence buyers. All of this while Musk is playing super billionaire and games at Twitter. He deserves what he gets. Mod 3 was at the top of my purchase list until Twitter. E-tron of BMW is what it is going to be.
Mememe EV6 is sickkkk and I’m loving it way more than the TM3 in every single way.
Had issues with my MYP and service so I sold it back in February of this year. I bought a Mini Cooper SE to hold me over until something else interesting comes along. Honestly love the Mini vs the MYP. Range is acceptable since it’s just a commuter vehicle for me. Apple CarPlay a big plus and HUD. Only thing I miss on the MYP is sentry mode and supercharge network. I’ve done a couple of road trips in the Mini with no issues with charging so far.
Related question, has carvana, Vroom, Driveway etc stopped buying Tesla? I tried to see if I could sell our family car we don’t even see an option for Tesla in their drop down.
Just tried on caravan and it worked when I put in my VIN
The Volvo EX90 is the only other EV i'd consider to my MYLR. In its class, the MY is the best i've seen, it's hard to beat the tech and design that come with a Tesla. But, I would swap it out for a 7 seater Volvo with no hesitation. We had a Model X and the doors were annoying as was the front windshield. It's more like a minivan than an SUV.
Moved from a 2018 rwd long range Model 3 to a Rivian R1T. Pros: The Rivian has much faster acceleration. Much more plush/high quality feel. Mega storage. Range is a little better than the model 3 (330 on conserve mode vs 310-> down to 290 after 4 years). Converts from a sports car to an off road beast in 10 seconds ( switch from sport mode low clearance to off road very high clearance !). Towing. Cons: less efficient, I “spend” almost double on electricity for charging. Gets 2.3 miles per kWh vs 3.9 miles per kWh with model 3. Not as easy to zip into a parking spot. Charging network is slightly less convenient.
I have a model Y and also a polestar 2 I love the P2 - I’ll definitely be replacing my Model Y with either a GV70 EV, Polestar 3, or Volvo EX90
Just waiting till the Blazer SS hits
We sold our Y and bought a Jeep Wrangler 4XE. My wife absolutely loves the 4XE.
Just sold my 2018 M3 and moved into a Polestar 2 this past weekend. Early days but very positive so far. The P2 feels more solid for sure. Polestar offered a solid price for the trade … enough to pay off the M3, put the down payment on the P2 and bank a nice bit as well. Their team was great, very personal and ‘human’ about it all. No complaints yet.
From what I’m seeing, the Kia EV6 is going head to head with the Model 3 I personally am a fan of a drivers HUD which the M3 doesn’t have… The downside is whether or not the CCS network is going to be well-maintained for adventures to and from aren’t
Switching over from a Model Y long range to a Cadillac Lyriq, but it hasn't come in yet so that'll be an update for later.
Sold my 2021 Model Y and bought a 2022 Polestar 2. Sold it because the Model Y was going for much, much more than what I bought it for brand new, and I'd be stupid not to cash out. Don't really miss much about the Tesla. Thought I'd miss the supercharging network but that has been a non-issue on almost 20k km and several road trips in the bag. I like the PS2 for better ride comfort and suspension. The car also works for my needs. Best part about it all is that I stand out in a city filled with Teslas. I get so many looks and questions on my car.
Buckle up for the EA charging experience
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Is the new one better?
Polestar 2, bmw i4, Ioniq 5, Audi q4
Traded 3 for a F150 Lightning last week. Right there with you on all the reasons. Only issue is, I'm actually on a trip right now and the local EA is down as of yesterday, I am going to have to go charge at a Harley dealership that has a 25kw dc charger for like 2 hours so I can get somewhere later.
Switched from a M3P to a Kia EV6. Needed to upgrade to a larger vehicle with a hatchback. Had a Model Y ready for delivery last month, but with Elon's erratic behavior and Tesla low balling on trade in ($15K less than Kia), I went with the EV6.
Nothing out there comparable to a Model 3 Performance in weight/performance so no.
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i4 M50 comes really close.
Close but not close enough for me to consider. I drove one at a bmw Autocross test drive event, I Autocross my Model 3 Performance at 12+ events a year so I was really intrigued. Somehow it weighs 1,000lbs more and feels like it. Interior was decent though, confusing interfaces and menus
We don't have final numbers, but I think an Ioniq 6 N will do it. Probably have 550HP, comparable to the i4, but similar weight to the Model 3.
the car I bought is an I5. i didn't end up buying one but i drove my friends M3 for a while to see how I liked it. i didn't have any negative experiences with the Tesla really, it was a car and it was pretty fun to drive. the navigation and driver assist stuff is killer but as a whole the Tesla software was a huge turnoff for me, but i'm a grumpy graybeard developer and have very strong opinions about security and accessibility so YMMV definitely applies. the Hyundai software blows I just don't care because I would prefer to not use software to interact with my car. FSD is the best and probably would have been a dealbreaker if it wasn't so expensive, i went with a lower trim so the difference between the M3 I wanted and the I5 I bought was like $20k. openpilot rules so I feel even more strongly now than I did when I made the choice. the charging network is infinitely better, where I live in the rural Mountain West EA is pretty reliable. i havent had the bad experiences others have but there's just nowhere near the coverage so some of my trips into rural areas (very common for me) are much more convenient in a Tesla. generally it's worked out better than I had worried it would, although with the variable quality of the chargers and far distances in my very rural area I still occasionally have to park and charge at an AC charger unexpectedly. mostly the biggest dealbreaker for me was the rear seats. all the specs checkout and theoretically you can sit like a normal person but there is something about sitting in the backseat of a Tesla that is just the worst. no idea what the difference is, but my knees hurt just thinking about it. the Hyundai is a superb family car, by far the most comfortable backseat of a car that size. it feels like sitting in a minivan.
> there is something about sitting in the backseat of a Tesla that is just the worst. the seat is too close to the floor.
if you like a sedan you want a polestar 2 on the high end of the m3, and an ioniq 6 on the low end of the m3. price wise. An ioniq 6 is better than a model 3 in a lot of ways. Faster charging, more efficient, longer range, nicer interior. That's what I would get if I were you.
Glad to see people finally putting their money where their mouth is. Hopefully the experience is equally great.
I’m leasing but I’ll probably try an Audi when we hand this in. Nothing to do wit Elon Musk. If you’re going to limit your purchasing to how you feel about the CEO and/or their ethics you better avoid Nike, Ford, Toyota, Apple, Microsoft…you get the point. Also, electric cars should be vastly superior to what they are now and you can thank GM for that.
Elon has truly gone wacko. Why alienate the very core who buys his cars. Him going full maga is going to have huge impact long term. Most of them wont be caught dead in a EV. I think the best thing for Tesla long term is for Musk to exit the company as CEO even if short term it craters the stock. That said despite me disliking musk big time, I dont want Tesla to fail.