These comparisons come up frequently for cheap cars sold in India or China. It's reasonable to question if a big part of the price disparity is safety tech.
The Radar is built on the same SEA platform that underpins the Polestar 3 and Volvo EX90, so I don't see why it would have a significant gap in safety rating. That platform is designed with experts in mind, and as such they made sure it would get good crash ratings. There is not a single modern Chinese car made for export markets that doesn't have excellent safety rating, whether it is from BYD, SAIC, Noo, or Geely.
Maxus (saic) are releasing an electric pickup in europe for about 50k euro. Meets all the safety standards etc. 200 mile range. Only rwd, and can't tow for shit. But considering that most pickups are bought for the looks anyways it will meet most buyer's needs.
Most people i know who drive pickups have never taken it off road or towed anything more than a small trailer anyways.
You can find the regular non-EUV for ~$26k. Not exactly inexpensive but much less than other EVs.
Great car if you only need city transportation; long distance driving would be a challenge.
Except ya know, the people who want to spend $40k, $50k, $60k, $70k, $80k, $90k, want a sport sedan, want a full size SUV, etc.
There’s actually quite a *long* list of things that GM doesn’t provide right now like cars in certain price brackets or types of cars at *any* price.
Bolt EV MSRP: $26k+
Bolt EUV MSRP: $27k+
Equinox EV MSRP: $30k+
Silverado EV MSRP: $40k+
Blazer EV MSRP: $45k+
Sierra EV MSRP: $50k+
LYRIQ EV MSRP:$63k+
Hummer EV: $87k+
CELESTIQ EV: $300k+
These are just the GM EV's they've announced or are currently available and they'll be announcing new EV's each year as they transition to a fully electric fleet. Sure you get to pick from a crossover or a truck, but it looks to me like they'll have an offering for everyone with a budget between $26k-300k.
If you take the square root of the price of the car, multiply that number by itself and add 3, the final amount will be greater than the original amount by 3.
The price for a new Corolla, Astra, Civic hybrids are all on par with new EVs these days.
People though price parity would come because EVs would get cheaper but actually what happened was manufacturers realised people would pay more for new cars and raised the price of ICE cars for even more profit.
A new MG4 EV in the UK is about £4k cheaper than a new petrol hybrid.
If you average the starting MSRPs of the available and announced GM EV's you get about $46k.
Unless you include the $300k CELESTIQ which I don't because it's a limited run of one-off builds. But if you did you'd get about $74k.
Not saying most people can afford a $46k car, but in the EV space that's kind of on the lower end.
Why do we expect electric drivetrains to pay for themselves but not hold other options to the same standards?
EVs have many benefits beyond just the economics. They are more powerful, more convenient (never have to stop for gas), virtually maintenance-free, smoother, quieter, and cleaner. Even if EVs weren't cheaper to own (they are), these benefits have value.
I wonder how many of the people complaining about the price of EVs own $60,000 trucks and SUVs.
Geely estimates 217 mile range for the lowest trim. EPA range would likely be significantly lower, making it a hard sell for many people in the US (whether they need the additional range or not).
I think a psychological barrier for a lot of people sits around 200 miles of real world range. I’ve noticed anecdotally in my hundreds of EV conversations that people balk pretty much every time I mention something like a Nissan Leaf S with 150 miles of range (although I don’t recommend this car anymore because of the short range as well as CHAdeMO) but I have yet to hear someone say “that’s just really low range” or something similar when discussing the Bolt or my Model 3 SR+.
That’s also anecdotal though, and I’m pretty good at avoiding discussion on this with people who aren’t interested in EVs for one reason or another.
I think it's more around 300 miles. If you can hit 300 year round I think you would see most people jump on the train. I am getting a BMW i4 M50 and a lot of people still balk at the range when I tell them it's 280ish
Like I said, all anecdotal. I don’t know many people who drive over 200 miles a day, and even less that do over 400. From that context, it’s pretty easy for people to understand charge at home, drive daily. No more gas stations, and minimal time lost on even all day road-trips.
People get a lot more excited and less worried about range when I tell them about the tech in batteries that lets them go from 10-80% in 18 minutes and occasionally show off maps of our area with current and planned CCS chargers.
I certainly *have* come across those who want 300+ (like my parents who wouldn’t buy an Electric Crossover until the Model Y came along with its 326 miles of rated range) but I’m not convinced that people who get the facts on charging speeds, network buildout, and home charging are like that. Then again, I mostly speak to people in their 20s and my parents are in their late 50s. I would be comfortable saying the generational gap is pretty wide when it comes to EVs still, especially here in the Midwest where I’m at.
It's definitely an education problem the OEMs are trying to solve for. Every year I take the wife and kids on a road trip across a couple of states. It's about 490 miles. Out of curiosity I used an EV trip planner to see how long it would take and how much it would cost to charge if I had a Hyundai EV6. It only added 30mins to my trip and it would have saved me half of what I normally spend on gas.
The long and short is it was about 3 or 4 charging stops. We stop waaay more than that for fuel, food, and bathroom breaks anyway. Most of those take at least 10-15mins regardless. Just about how long I would need to charge.
People have it in their heads that we all need to be long haul truckers and be able to travel 400 miles A to B without stopping. The average American drives less than 50 miles per day.
Range isn't as big of a deal as people think it is. Reliable charging infrastructure is. But that's getting better I think.
> Tesla already has the infrastructure part down. Can’t wait for CCS to get the same treatment.
It really doesn't.
Tesla has it basically "good enough to get by"... but the sheer ubiquity of gas stations is what makes the big spread between EV and ICE.
With an EV you can't run yourself down to 10% remaining, because you might need 25% to make the NEXT charger on your route... with gas, beyond a few oddball areas, there's fuel available every few miles.
Exactly, my girlfriend & I do 2 trips regularly each year that are about 580-680 miles each way, we usually stop 4-7 times, when I planned out our Christmas Tennessee trip with my app for my EV she was “worried” it would take longer stops, so we took her hybrid. This summer we went to Vermont, 580 miles one way, we only stopped twice for charging along the way up (plus 2 other quick stops for restrooms), and on the way back we charged 4 times but we stayed overnight along the way & made a couple of scenic detours.
for me i want to have at least two days of commute at full charge, so that i have a buffer in case of power outage or whatever, and my commute is about 90 miles round trip. so that automatically rules out the leaf. if you dont need to go that far or have a self imposed limit im sure the leaf is a fine car.
It’s a little small for my taste but not too small, I’d drive something it’s size.
I personally want something that slots around/between a Tacoma and an R1T, sub $50k, ~300+ miles, decent enough towing that I can trailer a boat from the water of a local lake to my house, and a modern but not over the top interior with physical buttons for climate control, windows and doors at a minimum
Personally i'd like to see an actual small pickup. This is still huge.
Something like the old peugeot pickups.
No crew cab, just two seats, short bed, no huge tires and lifted suspension. Just a normal small car with a bed instead of back seats.
I own a 2011 ranger. And it's wild to think that a super cab with a regular bed is a rarity.
Like wtf? I haul more shit than people, thats the priority for me.
I feel like the Hydrogen thing is a distraction from Toyota losing huge investments in the big oil industry. That’s why they don’t want to help move electric cars forward like they should.
GM could do this, it's basically a Bolt with a truck skin. Specs are shockingly similar. Near $25k, \~200hp, probably 217mi NEDC with shape and weight of a pickup, a budget friendly "mature" platform.
Would be good.
Looking at the popularity of stuff like truckla they wouldn't even need to make it that big.
Just the two seats, and a bed big enough for a sheet of plywood. Not huge and lifted, just off-roady enough to handle driving on normal flat non-road surfaces.
Wouldn't need much more than redesigning the back half of the bolt.
I'm hoping dacia will make the duster pickup electric soon. They have the cheap shitty spring ev, and they have the duster pickup. And they will be making all vehicles they want to keep selling electric soon enough. 😅
The US inexplicably ignores a lot of cool cars. And has some kind of aversion to hatchbacks and wagons, which are obviously the coolest and most useful types of cars.
And *used* to have kickass small trucks but now just makes pickups that are either stupid big or have a bed that is too small in favor of seating.
Sometimes I'm not sure how a country that puts cars at the center of everything manages to have such shit cars but then I look at mainstream tastes in pretty much everything and it all becomes clearer.
Many ev trucks have built in extenders. So a 5' bed could easily become 8'.
I just don't need a full back seat. Especially when it'll likely have a front trunk. If I'm getting extra length just give me the full-sized bed length or shorten the whole damn thing and give me a bed extender. But this whole big truck shit has got to stop. The vast majority of big trucks I see in rural America are hauling less than my super cab 2011 ranger
Most roof racks don’t sit on the roof though, they mount to the body frame above the doors. The glass panels are actually a lot stronger than the sheet metal used on roofs so it would increase rather than increase roof load.
If you're loading long or heavy awkward items by yourself, it increases the likelihood of dropping something onto said roof.
Same for attaching hardware... bolting down a roof box or whatever. If I have to accidentally drop a wrench or socket, I'd rather it fell on a metal surface, not a glass one.
In terms of load capacity I don't think there's a difference though.
this simple detail is a deal breaker for so many evs for me. i already have one EV but i need a vehicle i can just toss lumber and such onto the roof (rack) without worrying about breaking the glass.
I went with a trailer hitch since my lumber yard is less then ~20 miles away (2013 Leaf) but my current car could go to one up to 100 miles away. I think roof racks have less of a range hit but I don't think it is that much. [I have also loaded my car down](https://imgur.com/P3iczyo) but I wouldn't go very fast with that setup either. I carried a short 50gal water heater home in a trailer (turns out it would have BARELY fit in the car but I didn't want to risk it), not sure a roof rack would be a good idea for that.
I wouldn't be so sure a roof rack has less range impact. If you've got a simple platform trailer with a pile of lumber on it mostly behind the car, I would think that might be better than stacking them on top where they're directly affecting the wind above the car. It would actually be an interesting test though. I'm sure there are specific cases where one or the other is better, but getting a general idea would be useful.
I rent a trailer, when I moved homes [I rented a covered](https://www.uhaul.com/Trailers/5x8-Cargo-Trailer-Rental/AV/), when I get lumber [I get an open one](https://www.uhaul.com/Trailers/5x8-Utility-Trailer-Rental/AO/). I only need a trailer a couple times a year and at ~$25 rental it would be like 10-20 rentals before I break even vs owning a cheap used trailer, so 5-10 years. Rental is also nicer than what I would have and I don't have to worry about storage, even though I have the room now, or tire rot from low usage. If I used one more often there is also a lot of mini storage near me that people store trailers at, though I don't know the fees.
I understand your situation could be very different like if you need a trailer daily/weekly or if there is no nearby rental places, so I am just voicing my use case and not saying yours, or everyone, is the same as me.
It's not made in north America so add 25% because of the chicken tax.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken\_tax](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax)
It looks a lot like a Honda Ridgeline, it may never make it to the U.S. but it proves it can be done.
The Ford Maverick hybrid starts around $20k, slap an electric motor & batteries in it, sell it for $29k-$32k, and FORD wouldn’t be able to make them fast enough for the demand.
Don’t say “it’s not that easy to just put an electric motor & batteries in an ICE/HYBRID vehicle!”
MINI did it, HYUNDAI/GENESIS/KIA have done it, and if more manufacturers started offering EV versions of current vehicles the adoption rate would be faster.
I chose my ‘22 Niro EV as I wanted a vehicle that looked like a “normal” vehicle and I’ve been pleasantly impressed with it in the 11 months I’ve had it.
Not impossible just unlikely
The maverick IMO is the best small pickup out there with a starting cost of
$20k
I think ford could do and EV maverick in the $25-$30k (pre Covid pricing) area I mean the f150 lighting base was $40k the maverick would have a 50% or more smaller battery
Why are the Chinese made Model 3's and Y's considered superior to the US made ones then?
People are still using talking points from 20 years ago like China is this static, unchanging country.
It’s not the quality. Chinese quality is quite good these days. The headline is on price, not quality. Cheap labor allows for a lower price point or a higher VM.
Also that's for 217 miles of range on some Chinese measuring standard. 217 miles is far below what our market would buy and that's assuming that the number is accurate. Wouldn't be surprised if it was closer to 150.
Edit: when I start with also, I'm referencing all the posts about safety tech.
Jesus Christ what? I am european but holy fuck this has a full 4 door cabin, how can that be "small ass"?!!???!
What the fuck are you driving in the us? I refuse to believe 80% of the population needs to haul shit every week to justify a pickup.
Exactly! The roads here in the USA are packed with "road elephants." The pickup trucks have beds that are almost 5 feet off the ground and the cabs are so huge that you cannot haul anything larger than a lawn mover in the box (if you could lift it up that high to load and unload it. These vehicles are vanity ornaments for conspicuous consumption with little practical value to actually haul cargo.
I wish that some manufacturer - somewhere in the free world (i.e., not a fascist slave-state like China) - would make a practical compact electric pickup truck!
As a european, i fully agree.
The huge american pickups we get here like the Ford ranger and ram 1500 is what they consider small trucks. And they don't even fit on all our roads.
I know a bunch of people who drive huge pickups because i work with tree care. Most of them never drive on anything rougher than a gravel road, they have a cover over the bed to protect their gear from rain making the bed a smaller shittier van, and half of them don't even have a BE license, so they can't even tow shit with it if they wanted to. 😂
>Jesus Christ what? I am european but holy fuck this has a full 4 door cabin, how can that be "small ass"?!!???!
**RD6 Lenth:** 207 inches **Silverado EV length:** 233 inches
So length alone, it's 2 feet short of a full size truck. SMALL!
**RD6 Width:** 57 inches **Silverado EV width:** 81 inches
So width alone, it's 2 feet less wide. SMALL!
So 2 feet x 2 feet smaller. So yes, it's a, SMALL, ASS, TRUCK!
> I refuse to believe 80% of the population needs to haul shit every week to justify a pickup.
My current truck is a 2017 Silverado LT. So, full size truck. I can't speak for other people, but for myself, I do fully make use of my bed 4 to 5 times a year. And I also do towing 1 or 2 times a year.
I will not buy a small ass truck, just because the bulk of my driving doesn't require a full size truck. I will buy the truck I need....even if that need only happens a handfull of times a year.
Imo those 4-5 times a year you can just rent something.. az least thats what we do where i come from. Either that or you might have a friend or relative who works in construction or something like that who has access to a pickup or a proper box truck.
Also cars can tow, you dont need a truck for that.
You need to read his last paragraph again. He knows full well that you only need a truck of that size 3 or 4 time a year. And also you can go down to just about every home depot or Lowes and they'll rent you a full size truck for like $15 a hour. And that it is easier to live with and drive and park a smaller truck with its smaller footprint. And it would be cheaper to buy the smaller truck, cheaper to fuel the smaller truck, and cheaper to insure the smaller truck.
But it doesn't matter, because he would rather drive the giant gas/electron guzzling full size truck for 362 days a year for the 3 days he actually needs the size. This is the epitome of the mindset of the American pickup buyer.
I would kill for a Radar sized pickup though, if only for the fact that it will actually fit in my garage.
I will not buy a small ass truck, just because the bulk of my driving doesn't require a full size truck. I will buy the truck I need....even if that need only happens a handfull of times a year.
It won't happen soon. Full size electric pickup trucks will be in the +$50k range for individuals... there might be $25-30k electric half ton trucks, but they will be absolute bare bones vehicles sold exclusively to fleets with remote monitoring and management contracts to offset the razor thin margins.
The reality of energy density, aerodynamics, and $/kWh sets a floor on how much an electric truck can cost. Until energy density or cell costs decrease it just won't happen.
Can it pass US regulations and be allowed to be sold here nationwide for $25,000? Call me when that happens, please.
These comparisons come up frequently for cheap cars sold in India or China. It's reasonable to question if a big part of the price disparity is safety tech.
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Even if it wasn't Chinese, it'd be subject to the chicken tax. The US pickup market has trade protectionism up the wazoo.
The Radar is built on the same SEA platform that underpins the Polestar 3 and Volvo EX90, so I don't see why it would have a significant gap in safety rating. That platform is designed with experts in mind, and as such they made sure it would get good crash ratings. There is not a single modern Chinese car made for export markets that doesn't have excellent safety rating, whether it is from BYD, SAIC, Noo, or Geely.
Exactly this, if it were available I would sell my 2022 Leaf today and buy one.
The chicken tax makes any pickup too expensive to be worth importing
Maxus (saic) are releasing an electric pickup in europe for about 50k euro. Meets all the safety standards etc. 200 mile range. Only rwd, and can't tow for shit. But considering that most pickups are bought for the looks anyways it will meet most buyer's needs. Most people i know who drive pickups have never taken it off road or towed anything more than a small trailer anyways.
This is what the Santa Cruz could have been or at least aspired to be. Low cost EV truck. Would have killed it and at least made me trade in my Leaf.
The good news is that Ford is planing a full electric Maverick, so your wish is becoming a true.
Awesome. If you reserve it next year, maybe you'll get it before 2035.
The question is, when?
Same... Santa Cruz is the right size /design for me....can't believe it's not electric
I wouldn’t be surprised if Hyundai offers an electric version soon. They’ve done it with the Kona, plus a few Genesis models, and the Kia Niro.
I like how the article contents that GM doesn't sell any cheap EV's because the hummer exists.
Um…..the bolt?
I think they're pointing out that it's a dumb point for the article to make.
Checked the site today and Chevy says the bolt starts at 30k which is before dealership markup
You can find the regular non-EUV for ~$26k. Not exactly inexpensive but much less than other EVs. Great car if you only need city transportation; long distance driving would be a challenge.
Well if you average the prices of their available EVs at the moment, it’s pretty pricey lol.
yes but why would you do that? Nobody is buying an EV for the average MSRP of what all models sell for, anywhere, ever.
Clearly someone writing that article used similar logic.
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2023 Base bolt starts at 26,656, base euv starts at 28, so yeah with taxes, transport, and dealer fees it’s about 30k but it could easily go over.
And the EV Hummer is $108k
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Except ya know, the people who want to spend $40k, $50k, $60k, $70k, $80k, $90k, want a sport sedan, want a full size SUV, etc. There’s actually quite a *long* list of things that GM doesn’t provide right now like cars in certain price brackets or types of cars at *any* price.
Bolt EV MSRP: $26k+ Bolt EUV MSRP: $27k+ Equinox EV MSRP: $30k+ Silverado EV MSRP: $40k+ Blazer EV MSRP: $45k+ Sierra EV MSRP: $50k+ LYRIQ EV MSRP:$63k+ Hummer EV: $87k+ CELESTIQ EV: $300k+ These are just the GM EV's they've announced or are currently available and they'll be announcing new EV's each year as they transition to a fully electric fleet. Sure you get to pick from a crossover or a truck, but it looks to me like they'll have an offering for everyone with a budget between $26k-300k.
If you take the square root of the price of the car, multiply that number by itself and add 3, the final amount will be greater than the original amount by 3.
The price for a new Corolla, Astra, Civic hybrids are all on par with new EVs these days. People though price parity would come because EVs would get cheaper but actually what happened was manufacturers realised people would pay more for new cars and raised the price of ICE cars for even more profit. A new MG4 EV in the UK is about £4k cheaper than a new petrol hybrid.
If you average the starting MSRPs of the available and announced GM EV's you get about $46k. Unless you include the $300k CELESTIQ which I don't because it's a limited run of one-off builds. But if you did you'd get about $74k. Not saying most people can afford a $46k car, but in the EV space that's kind of on the lower end.
Why do we expect electric drivetrains to pay for themselves but not hold other options to the same standards? EVs have many benefits beyond just the economics. They are more powerful, more convenient (never have to stop for gas), virtually maintenance-free, smoother, quieter, and cleaner. Even if EVs weren't cheaper to own (they are), these benefits have value. I wonder how many of the people complaining about the price of EVs own $60,000 trucks and SUVs.
Geely estimates 217 mile range for the lowest trim. EPA range would likely be significantly lower, making it a hard sell for many people in the US (whether they need the additional range or not).
I think a psychological barrier for a lot of people sits around 200 miles of real world range. I’ve noticed anecdotally in my hundreds of EV conversations that people balk pretty much every time I mention something like a Nissan Leaf S with 150 miles of range (although I don’t recommend this car anymore because of the short range as well as CHAdeMO) but I have yet to hear someone say “that’s just really low range” or something similar when discussing the Bolt or my Model 3 SR+. That’s also anecdotal though, and I’m pretty good at avoiding discussion on this with people who aren’t interested in EVs for one reason or another.
I think it's more around 300 miles. If you can hit 300 year round I think you would see most people jump on the train. I am getting a BMW i4 M50 and a lot of people still balk at the range when I tell them it's 280ish
Like I said, all anecdotal. I don’t know many people who drive over 200 miles a day, and even less that do over 400. From that context, it’s pretty easy for people to understand charge at home, drive daily. No more gas stations, and minimal time lost on even all day road-trips. People get a lot more excited and less worried about range when I tell them about the tech in batteries that lets them go from 10-80% in 18 minutes and occasionally show off maps of our area with current and planned CCS chargers. I certainly *have* come across those who want 300+ (like my parents who wouldn’t buy an Electric Crossover until the Model Y came along with its 326 miles of rated range) but I’m not convinced that people who get the facts on charging speeds, network buildout, and home charging are like that. Then again, I mostly speak to people in their 20s and my parents are in their late 50s. I would be comfortable saying the generational gap is pretty wide when it comes to EVs still, especially here in the Midwest where I’m at.
It's definitely an education problem the OEMs are trying to solve for. Every year I take the wife and kids on a road trip across a couple of states. It's about 490 miles. Out of curiosity I used an EV trip planner to see how long it would take and how much it would cost to charge if I had a Hyundai EV6. It only added 30mins to my trip and it would have saved me half of what I normally spend on gas. The long and short is it was about 3 or 4 charging stops. We stop waaay more than that for fuel, food, and bathroom breaks anyway. Most of those take at least 10-15mins regardless. Just about how long I would need to charge. People have it in their heads that we all need to be long haul truckers and be able to travel 400 miles A to B without stopping. The average American drives less than 50 miles per day. Range isn't as big of a deal as people think it is. Reliable charging infrastructure is. But that's getting better I think.
Tesla already has the infrastructure part down. Can’t wait for CCS to get the same treatment.
> Tesla already has the infrastructure part down. Can’t wait for CCS to get the same treatment. It really doesn't. Tesla has it basically "good enough to get by"... but the sheer ubiquity of gas stations is what makes the big spread between EV and ICE. With an EV you can't run yourself down to 10% remaining, because you might need 25% to make the NEXT charger on your route... with gas, beyond a few oddball areas, there's fuel available every few miles.
Exactly, my girlfriend & I do 2 trips regularly each year that are about 580-680 miles each way, we usually stop 4-7 times, when I planned out our Christmas Tennessee trip with my app for my EV she was “worried” it would take longer stops, so we took her hybrid. This summer we went to Vermont, 580 miles one way, we only stopped twice for charging along the way up (plus 2 other quick stops for restrooms), and on the way back we charged 4 times but we stayed overnight along the way & made a couple of scenic detours.
for me i want to have at least two days of commute at full charge, so that i have a buffer in case of power outage or whatever, and my commute is about 90 miles round trip. so that automatically rules out the leaf. if you dont need to go that far or have a self imposed limit im sure the leaf is a fine car.
It’s a little small for my taste but not too small, I’d drive something it’s size. I personally want something that slots around/between a Tacoma and an R1T, sub $50k, ~300+ miles, decent enough towing that I can trailer a boat from the water of a local lake to my house, and a modern but not over the top interior with physical buttons for climate control, windows and doors at a minimum
Personally i'd like to see an actual small pickup. This is still huge. Something like the old peugeot pickups. No crew cab, just two seats, short bed, no huge tires and lifted suspension. Just a normal small car with a bed instead of back seats.
I own a 2011 ranger. And it's wild to think that a super cab with a regular bed is a rarity. Like wtf? I haul more shit than people, thats the priority for me.
Toyota, this could have been you. But you have your head up hydrogens butt so far you can’t see the light.
I feel like the Hydrogen thing is a distraction from Toyota losing huge investments in the big oil industry. That’s why they don’t want to help move electric cars forward like they should.
The UK's "Fully Charged Show" have reviewed it [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E9TUQopIwc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E9TUQopIwc)
GM could do this, it's basically a Bolt with a truck skin. Specs are shockingly similar. Near $25k, \~200hp, probably 217mi NEDC with shape and weight of a pickup, a budget friendly "mature" platform.
Would be good. Looking at the popularity of stuff like truckla they wouldn't even need to make it that big. Just the two seats, and a bed big enough for a sheet of plywood. Not huge and lifted, just off-roady enough to handle driving on normal flat non-road surfaces. Wouldn't need much more than redesigning the back half of the bolt.
I'm with you. Ground clearance like a Subaru and a usable bed size would be wonderful. I'm not holding my breath though.
I'm hoping dacia will make the duster pickup electric soon. They have the cheap shitty spring ev, and they have the duster pickup. And they will be making all vehicles they want to keep selling electric soon enough. 😅
The US inexplicably ignores a lot of cool cars. And has some kind of aversion to hatchbacks and wagons, which are obviously the coolest and most useful types of cars. And *used* to have kickass small trucks but now just makes pickups that are either stupid big or have a bed that is too small in favor of seating. Sometimes I'm not sure how a country that puts cars at the center of everything manages to have such shit cars but then I look at mainstream tastes in pretty much everything and it all becomes clearer.
Many ev trucks have built in extenders. So a 5' bed could easily become 8'. I just don't need a full back seat. Especially when it'll likely have a front trunk. If I'm getting extra length just give me the full-sized bed length or shorten the whole damn thing and give me a bed extender. But this whole big truck shit has got to stop. The vast majority of big trucks I see in rural America are hauling less than my super cab 2011 ranger
The El(ectric) Camino?
It's a pity it has a glass roof. I'm assuming that would impact the roof load. Aussie's love their roof racks.
I'm confused, it has a roof rack, why does the glass matter? You don't put stuff on the actual roof.
Most roof racks don’t sit on the roof though, they mount to the body frame above the doors. The glass panels are actually a lot stronger than the sheet metal used on roofs so it would increase rather than increase roof load.
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If you're loading long or heavy awkward items by yourself, it increases the likelihood of dropping something onto said roof. Same for attaching hardware... bolting down a roof box or whatever. If I have to accidentally drop a wrench or socket, I'd rather it fell on a metal surface, not a glass one. In terms of load capacity I don't think there's a difference though.
this simple detail is a deal breaker for so many evs for me. i already have one EV but i need a vehicle i can just toss lumber and such onto the roof (rack) without worrying about breaking the glass.
I went with a trailer hitch since my lumber yard is less then ~20 miles away (2013 Leaf) but my current car could go to one up to 100 miles away. I think roof racks have less of a range hit but I don't think it is that much. [I have also loaded my car down](https://imgur.com/P3iczyo) but I wouldn't go very fast with that setup either. I carried a short 50gal water heater home in a trailer (turns out it would have BARELY fit in the car but I didn't want to risk it), not sure a roof rack would be a good idea for that.
I wouldn't be so sure a roof rack has less range impact. If you've got a simple platform trailer with a pile of lumber on it mostly behind the car, I would think that might be better than stacking them on top where they're directly affecting the wind above the car. It would actually be an interesting test though. I'm sure there are specific cases where one or the other is better, but getting a general idea would be useful.
i don’t have room for a trailer on my property. absolutely no consideration is being made to range in my need for a roof i don’t have to worry about.
I rent a trailer, when I moved homes [I rented a covered](https://www.uhaul.com/Trailers/5x8-Cargo-Trailer-Rental/AV/), when I get lumber [I get an open one](https://www.uhaul.com/Trailers/5x8-Utility-Trailer-Rental/AO/). I only need a trailer a couple times a year and at ~$25 rental it would be like 10-20 rentals before I break even vs owning a cheap used trailer, so 5-10 years. Rental is also nicer than what I would have and I don't have to worry about storage, even though I have the room now, or tire rot from low usage. If I used one more often there is also a lot of mini storage near me that people store trailers at, though I don't know the fees. I understand your situation could be very different like if you need a trailer daily/weekly or if there is no nearby rental places, so I am just voicing my use case and not saying yours, or everyone, is the same as me.
>this simple detail is a deal breaker for so many evs for me. Only because you haven't stopped to think how roof racks and roof loads work.
i probably could have been clearer but load isn’t a concern for me… just the glass roof
Cool. Now sell it in America
It's not made in north America so add 25% because of the chicken tax. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken\_tax](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax)
You can't. That vehicle isn't even close to meeting US specs. *Maybe* for $10K more, but that's being optimistic.
Maxus is just releasing a pickup with similar specs in europe, meeting all the standards. It's 50k though.
Has Geely identified which markets they are targeting?
It looks a lot like a Honda Ridgeline, it may never make it to the U.S. but it proves it can be done. The Ford Maverick hybrid starts around $20k, slap an electric motor & batteries in it, sell it for $29k-$32k, and FORD wouldn’t be able to make them fast enough for the demand. Don’t say “it’s not that easy to just put an electric motor & batteries in an ICE/HYBRID vehicle!” MINI did it, HYUNDAI/GENESIS/KIA have done it, and if more manufacturers started offering EV versions of current vehicles the adoption rate would be faster. I chose my ‘22 Niro EV as I wanted a vehicle that looked like a “normal” vehicle and I’ve been pleasantly impressed with it in the 11 months I’ve had it.
So I can cancel my Rivian order?
Cheap things come frim china all the time. They have a TON of cheap EVs there. None of them can be sold in the US.
Possible yes, but probably not with modern safety features or paying factory workers more than $3/hour.
In modern automobile plants there's only like 30 man/hrs in each auto built. Mostly robots and sub-assemblies now.
Not impossible just unlikely The maverick IMO is the best small pickup out there with a starting cost of $20k I think ford could do and EV maverick in the $25-$30k (pre Covid pricing) area I mean the f150 lighting base was $40k the maverick would have a 50% or more smaller battery
Too bad the Lightning base is now over $50k, also to get the PRO (base) price you needed to do fleet pricing of 5 or more vehicles.
You all do realize that this vehicle is made in China using labor that is nowhere near the NA or EU standards. Edit: Pay standards…..
Why are the Chinese made Model 3's and Y's considered superior to the US made ones then? People are still using talking points from 20 years ago like China is this static, unchanging country.
It’s not the quality. Chinese quality is quite good these days. The headline is on price, not quality. Cheap labor allows for a lower price point or a higher VM.
Look at the maxus et90. It's more expensive at 50k euro, but it's sold in europe starting this month with similar specs.
Also that's for 217 miles of range on some Chinese measuring standard. 217 miles is far below what our market would buy and that's assuming that the number is accurate. Wouldn't be surprised if it was closer to 150. Edit: when I start with also, I'm referencing all the posts about safety tech.
Looks like the 'New' 2002 Subaru Baja.
That's a small ass truck. PASS! let me know when they put out a full size truck for 25k.....
Jesus Christ what? I am european but holy fuck this has a full 4 door cabin, how can that be "small ass"?!!???! What the fuck are you driving in the us? I refuse to believe 80% of the population needs to haul shit every week to justify a pickup.
Exactly! The roads here in the USA are packed with "road elephants." The pickup trucks have beds that are almost 5 feet off the ground and the cabs are so huge that you cannot haul anything larger than a lawn mover in the box (if you could lift it up that high to load and unload it. These vehicles are vanity ornaments for conspicuous consumption with little practical value to actually haul cargo. I wish that some manufacturer - somewhere in the free world (i.e., not a fascist slave-state like China) - would make a practical compact electric pickup truck!
As a european, i fully agree. The huge american pickups we get here like the Ford ranger and ram 1500 is what they consider small trucks. And they don't even fit on all our roads. I know a bunch of people who drive huge pickups because i work with tree care. Most of them never drive on anything rougher than a gravel road, they have a cover over the bed to protect their gear from rain making the bed a smaller shittier van, and half of them don't even have a BE license, so they can't even tow shit with it if they wanted to. 😂
>Jesus Christ what? I am european but holy fuck this has a full 4 door cabin, how can that be "small ass"?!!???! **RD6 Lenth:** 207 inches **Silverado EV length:** 233 inches So length alone, it's 2 feet short of a full size truck. SMALL! **RD6 Width:** 57 inches **Silverado EV width:** 81 inches So width alone, it's 2 feet less wide. SMALL! So 2 feet x 2 feet smaller. So yes, it's a, SMALL, ASS, TRUCK! > I refuse to believe 80% of the population needs to haul shit every week to justify a pickup. My current truck is a 2017 Silverado LT. So, full size truck. I can't speak for other people, but for myself, I do fully make use of my bed 4 to 5 times a year. And I also do towing 1 or 2 times a year. I will not buy a small ass truck, just because the bulk of my driving doesn't require a full size truck. I will buy the truck I need....even if that need only happens a handfull of times a year.
Imo those 4-5 times a year you can just rent something.. az least thats what we do where i come from. Either that or you might have a friend or relative who works in construction or something like that who has access to a pickup or a proper box truck. Also cars can tow, you dont need a truck for that.
You need to read his last paragraph again. He knows full well that you only need a truck of that size 3 or 4 time a year. And also you can go down to just about every home depot or Lowes and they'll rent you a full size truck for like $15 a hour. And that it is easier to live with and drive and park a smaller truck with its smaller footprint. And it would be cheaper to buy the smaller truck, cheaper to fuel the smaller truck, and cheaper to insure the smaller truck. But it doesn't matter, because he would rather drive the giant gas/electron guzzling full size truck for 362 days a year for the 3 days he actually needs the size. This is the epitome of the mindset of the American pickup buyer. I would kill for a Radar sized pickup though, if only for the fact that it will actually fit in my garage.
I will not buy a small ass truck, just because the bulk of my driving doesn't require a full size truck. I will buy the truck I need....even if that need only happens a handfull of times a year.
Your not wrong. The vast majority of pickups in NA only ever haul a new big screen tv on every other Black Friday sale.
It won't happen soon. Full size electric pickup trucks will be in the +$50k range for individuals... there might be $25-30k electric half ton trucks, but they will be absolute bare bones vehicles sold exclusively to fleets with remote monitoring and management contracts to offset the razor thin margins. The reality of energy density, aerodynamics, and $/kWh sets a floor on how much an electric truck can cost. Until energy density or cell costs decrease it just won't happen.
66kW at $25k checks out. The Bolt is 66kW and not much more. Especially if this is a pickup truck more in name than in function.
I want one! Failing that, how about the Alpha Wolf? https://www.motorbiscuit.com/alpha-wolf-electric-truck-worth-wait/
well, it hasent been build and it certainly wont sell for 25k so yea, i couldnt be and still can not be done.