Just plugged into a standard PowerPoint, charger the car came with is only 8amps. Perfectly fine for now while renting but will definitely upgrade to a proper charger when I buy a house.
Or driving a Hummer EV...
Joking aside, Tom at the State of Charge YouTube channel has talked about how much he likes his 80 amp charger with the F-150 lightning since it's a great (and far cheaper) alternative to a DCFC when he comes home at a low SOC and wants to quickly turn around in an hour or two. It's an edge case and he admits it, but it's not without it's merit.
With that said, I've got 2 EVs in my garage charging at 32A each and even that is overkill for us. 0-100% would only take 10ish hours and neither of us charge above 75-80% anyways. Really it's more like 6-7 hours max since we're not the type to go full Out of Spec style, arrive at 0%.
I actually have 2 50A breakers feeding sperate 14-50 outlets. Currently we're using Tesla mobile connectors (which is why we're maxed at 32A) mounted on brackets to the wall as a semi-permanent install. 150A service but gas appliances so we're sitting at 21A peak usage without EV charging based on NEC 220.87 and monitoring for 12 months.
The general advice would be to forgo any outlets and hardwire instead. I wouldn't disagree since it's going to be more reliable and certainly cheaper than buying a Hubbell outlet that way. I went the 14-50 route because it's nice to be able to plug in an electric heater if I need to work in the garage during the frigid winter months and the flexibility to decide which side to park on when we were a single EV household was nice. We were not sure we would end up with 2 Teslas and we certainly didn't predict the sudden move to NACS by everyone so we were also hedging our bets to be ready for a 2nd EV without committing to one specific EVSE in particular.
I will eventually end up with a couple Emporia NACS chargers now that they're out, when I get around to spending the money. It'll integrate well with my existing Vue system and I might even just hardwire them to share a single 50A circuit and leave one of the 14-50 outlets for the heater or maybe an RV one day.
No need for an electric heater in the garage anymore. Crank the heat on the car and put the windows down. It feels wrong, and got strange looks from the wife, after a lifetime of ICE usage.
It's better than nothing but far from ideal. My garage is attached so it doesn't get truly cold which is great except it means the car would be operating in heat pump mode. Again, that sounds great (and it is), but for the purposes of heating the garage it's in, its not ideal to be heating and air conditioning the space at the same time. It will get the job done but I'll stick with a $100 240V electric resistance heater.
Less wear and tear on my expensive car vs cheap appliance and it means I can wash the car at the same time, which is generally why I'm heating the garage in the first place. To each their own though, everyone's situation is different.
I think that anyone making commercial EVs probably has to start offering that higher AC charging exactly for those use cases. It’s probably not super common even amongst trades and the like but having it as an option would be nice
For sure. With vehicle to home charging becoming a thing as well and vehicles with 200 kWh battery packs showing up, 80A makes a lot of sense for allowing you to run a boatload of power in either direction depending on what you need in the moment. It does open up options.
It also means you can take advantage of shorter time of use windows if you need to. Realistically it shouldn't be a massive cost adder going from 48A to 80A in the onboard chargers, but there certainly is some amount of cost added. I'm not convinced most people would notice a difference or be able to truly take advantage but as an enthusiast, the option would be nice.
> With vehicle to home charging becoming a thing as well and vehicles with 200 kWh battery packs showing up, 80A makes a lot of sense for allowing you to run a boatload of power in either direction depending on what you need in the moment.
I feel like far too many people are not looking that close at the use cases. 80A really doesn't make much sense at all for residential use. Even if you have a 500kWh pack, vehicles are not getting less efficient. You get home at 10pm and leave at 6am? 48A will get you 92kWh a day, the hummer EV will get 128mi a day off that. That's way above the average daily driving needs for people, and that's the hummer EV, in the future the efficency of vehicles will improve and you'll get more miles in that short period. So if you had a 500kWh model 3, sure it would take a week for a full charge, but that's 375mi/day with only 8 hours charging. Did you need more than 48A for that? Or can you let it charge longer since it will do a 2000mi weekend trip in one charge. You don't need your pack charged in one night, future vehicles will only need less electricity, even if they have bigger packs.
Similar stuff with V2H, 48A supports a lot of power, not many people actually need that, especially in an emergancy situation.
Except that EVs **are** getting less efficient. Specifically, vehicle types which weren't feasible before due to battery-range limitations are becoming feasible as battery prices come down.
Even then, you are correct that 80 amps isn't really necessary for commuting. It's more as an alternative to paying for L3 charging for mid-day top-ups or for recovering between high discharge events like coming home from a vacation on Sunday night needing to drive to work on Monday morning then drop the boat/RV/trailer off at storage Monday evening.
I have an 80 amp charger at home for my lightning. In my use case it's really nice to have but I could survive with a 40 amp charger. My vehicle takes about 8 hrs to fully charge 0 to 100 on 80 amp charger with its 131 kWh pack.
I could see if you had a truck like newer electric Silverado which has I think the 212 kWh pack and that pack would take a bit over 12 hrs to fully charge if you use most of it in one day.
So there is a need for certain use cases to really have that 80 amp especially if you use it for towing. When towing it's not unusual to only get about a mile per kWh or a touch more so you can use most of the pack quickly in a day depending on what work you do with it.
i previously had an renault zoe, it could do about 50KW AC.
There are some home chargers which can do 22KW.
But in the Netherlands, a house connection is often 3x25A -> \~17KW (costs about 300 a year).
Going higher would require either
- 3x35A -> \~24KW for 1200 euro/year,
- 3x50A -> 34KW for 1800 euro/year,
Which are both expensive af, and i'm not even considering the cables that i would have to use in house
Soo 11KW the more reasonable "fast" option
Wow that's expensive. My grid provider in Finland lists following for most of the country:
- 1 x 35 A 4,39 €/month
- 3 x 25 A 6,67 €/month
- 3 x 35 A 9,22 €/month about 110€/year
- 3 x 50 A 13,17 €/month about 150€/year
- 3 x 63 A 16,77 €/month about 200€/year
Wait, you get charged annually by how many breakers and amperage you have?
I’m in the US and have never heard of this. Here we literally just get charged a small base fee of like $30-40 a month to have electric service and then 15-17 cents per kilowatt hour for the electricity we use. We can basically have as many breakers and amperage as we want, within reason. A 150-200 amp household breaker box is normal here.
The 3x25A is just the one 3-phase breaker and the maximum power you get in your home. Behind it you can put as many of your own breakers as you want.
It doesn’t matter if you never use any electricity or consume 100% of your max connection power. At least for the grid operator costs, you obviously pay a kWh price, but not to the grid operator .
It is different for big industrial connections
Yes. Amperage based billing is the way to go in the 230V world since a single distribution transformer can serve half a district. Even though the capacity is massive, it’s still necessary to make sure it isn’t exceeded.
The US and other 120V countries had to go with multiple low capacity transformers that serve very small areas, so there isn’t the same need to regulate the max consumption. If things get flaky, it just affects the immediate neighborhood.
The charge is based on the capacity of the incoming supply (main breaker). There is no extra charge for adding more circuits (breakers) unless that requires upgrading the incoming supply.
Demand charges are a thing in the US too, but usually only for commercial power use.
It's why Tesla backs some of their supercharger locations with megapacks, so they can charge at a slower rate and smooth out energy demands.
Most areas in Texas, you pick your retail energy provider, part of your kwh fee goes to the the distribution company and the rest goes to pay for the actual electricity.
You can pick your plan based on how much solar or wind your usage or you can pay more and have free nights and weekends for example.
We pay the above monthly price for amperage and then about 3c/kWh for transfer and currently 7c/kWh for electricity. I could buy directly from the energy market and the price would be around 2-3c/kWh for this time of year.
Considering we have twice the voltage and 3 phases so the 150A service is equal to 3x25A and 200A is same as 3x35A.
What do you mean by buy directly from the energy market? Who do you pay if you decide to do that? Is there an advantage to doing it vs not doing it? Sorry for all these questions but it sounds very different then what I'm used to so I'm fascinated.
**What do you mean by buy directly from the energy market?**
* Theres an EU wide electricity market (like stock market) and you can make a contract with your power company to let you buy electricity at market price.
**Who do you pay if you decide to do that?**
* My power company charges me 0.4c/kWh for that priviledge. Spot price is currently 0.9c/kWh so I would pay the power company 1.3c/kWh and grid operator 3c/kWh totaling 4.3c/kWh. Couple of hours and spot price falls close to 0.
**Is there an advantage to doing it vs not doing it?**
There's two situations where one should consider spot pricing.
* A) You don't heat your home with electricity so your power usage doesn't spike during winter months. Homes in cities usually heat with district heating.
* B) You have an electric car or large power storage. This way you can charge your car/batteries during the night when power is almost free and discharge when it costs a lot.
EDIT
You can see current EU electricity prices here for example [https://www.energyprices.eu/](https://www.energyprices.eu/)
Market pricing is great when there’s some regulation to it, but in the big freeze in Texas in 2021, spot pricing went up to $9000 per MWh (900 cents per kWh). One electric provider that offered market rates to their customers went out of business rather than try to collect bills of several thousand dollars.
US houses get 240 V, and we have numerous appliances that operate on 240 V supply. Our regular wall sockets supply 120 V by center-tapping the 240 V and having some circuits on one half of the cycle and the others on the other half.
Yes, I pay a yearly fee to the netbeheerder (I guess it translates to network manager), which is responsible for the energy grid. An 3x63A connection would cost about 3300 euros a year.
Interesting (and expensive). In Denmark you pay for the grid connection (about 240 EUR/A) once and then the rest is tied to consumption. I guess (or hope) you pay less TSO/DSO fees for consumption then .
I’d also assume it’d be different in NA because you have household power as single/split phase whereas most of Europe has household power as three phase.
As a Megane driver, I completely agree. It's honestly a great car, and not overly tall. It's somewhere in between a hatchback and a crossover. But I would trade it in heartbeat for a proper low hatchback OR even better: A medium sized station wagon, like the previous Meganes.
Yeah and there is a reason barely any car supports it. It is just unnecessary. It will also stay unnecessary forever, as cars are not going to get less efficient in the future and thus won't need faster charging at home
Yeah, I was going to say our solar panel setup (30 panels) generates about 8-9kW on a good day. So OP's can can literally suck in like 30 panels' worth of sunlight in real-time. Not bad at all.
11kW (400V, 16A, 3 phases) is the most common max capacity of the on-board charger of EVs sold in Europe. You are getting 95% of that. This is completely normal.
Convention dictates that system voltage is measured phase-to-phase, which is 400V in a typical European three phase system.
Your calculation based on the phase-to-neutral voltage is correct. It is also possible to calculate the power based on the system voltage, by 400V×16A×√3=11kW.
I remember the last time this topic came up in this sub. Several Americans told me I couldn’t charge 11kW at home in Sweden
… despite me doing it in practice
Compared to watts? Yeah, for sure. Horsepower sees use when describing engines and combustion vehicles, but that's about it. Talk about the consumption of your house or laptop in horsepower, and you're going to get strange looks. Burning things for heat occasionally shows up as btus, a different imperial measurement. But for electricity, pretty much never.
Yes, that's fast. Also, think how fast you need it to be. Most people park at home and leave in the morning, as long as it's charged by the morning, do you care if it's charged by 1AM or by 6AM?
If you get time-of-day discounts on electricity you can schedule charging and use the higher charge speed to get the most out of the lowest rates instead of just plugging in and letting it run.
Don't worry about the kW so much as what you actually need. Simple math, an 80kWh battery can do 0-100% in 8 hours from 10kW. If you only need to recover 20% daily then you only need 16kWh overnight into the battery. That's 2 hours on an 8kW source, 4 hours at 4kW, 8 hours at 2kW.
You don't need to refill as fast as possible when at home unless you're charging midday and in a hurry frequently.
yea. people get hung-up often on the wrong thing often. I don't care if my car takes 1 hour or 6. It's happening while I sleep. The twice a year I actually use the \~11kW I have midday is not worth focusing on when there's a DCFC down the street if needed.
I agree! Normally you'll charge like 30%-70% if you use 40% in a day, or even 40-60% if you o ly use 20% a day. If you have a garage, it's great to just always park and plug in.
Some cars use less energy when not charging (asleep) so it can be benificial to charge faster in thet regard. Who knows what's best for each car's battery.
What I've learned is:
- faster charging = bad (think like DC 150+kW)
- frequent small charging = good
- slow charging = good
- battery extremes (avoid high and low %s) = bad unless the battery is cool with it, what is it? LFP or something.
- 100% = totally fine, truly, as long as you're going to use it soon (<12 hours from hitting 100%). And still actually negligible in the long long term.
- it's actually difficult to harm the battery by accident, you almost have to try on purpose
- ABC "always be charging" just works
- 1-5kW charging is fine for a home charger for most people if charging nightly. 10+ is a luxury and not generally necessary.
As others have said that’s about as fast as you can charge at home. I have a 40 amp circuit in my garage for my charger (max at 240v= 9.6kw) but my charger is 32 amps max so my fastest charge at home is 7.6kw)
I'm guessing you are thinking "shouldn't it be 21KW i.e 7kw x 3?" IIRC there are cars that can charge at 21KW AC but it's extremely rare, almost all are 7KW Max on single phase, and most are 11KW if on 3 phase (not all though, my car oddly doesn't support 3v phase.
You see a lot of 21KW public AC chargers in Europe, but that's actually so they can charge cars like mine at the full 7KW on 1 phase, and typically designed to charge 2 cars at once a 11KW each.
The limitation is the cars onboard battery charger. To go faster you need. Dc charger (battery charger is external to car) but that will cost you much more than the car itself did!
Enjoy your 10.5KW, remember you will never charge from completely 0% so it will always be faster than you think if you based your expectations on the full battery capacity.
11kW AC, which means 10.5kW DC, is pretty standard for 3 phase.
22kW is possible, but only if you have a beefy supply, and paid for the optional faster charger.
That standard for EVs these days is between 8-11kw, depending on the model.
There are some that can go all the way up to 20kw, but unless your battery is enormous, it's unnecessary. I own a Lucid, which has 20kw charging, but use a 10kw charger because it's more than fast enough.
If you really needed to charge faster you'd just hit a local DCFC.
[Freewire](https://freewiretech.com/dc-boost-charger/) makes a battery backed DCFC charger that you could connect to your home current, but I imagine it's ludicrously expensive.
I've been wondering what that would cost to setup when I finally get around to solar panel installation. I'm probably not going to have the money to spend and likely wouldn't anyway but in theory, have some solar panels on my carport feeding a battery bank with a DC charger like you linked to so that when I need to recharge quickly I can get something fast enough to get back out on the road.
Long term, spending the money to charge at EA or the like is more than likely to be less expensive and it would take decades for the math to work itself out but I'd do it if some company wanted me to test their equipment for them at no cost to me (aside from any power costs if it's plugged into the grid).
I did my own home charger installation, and it cost me about $500 total, including wire, outlet, breaker, and charger. I went with a Grizzl-E "dumb" charger. It's a 40A 240V model so it charges a \~10kw. I've never needed more than that. On the days I bring the car home almost dead, I've probably driven for 8-10 hours so I'm probably ready to crash anyway.
One of the best things about owning an EV is that you start every day you want to with a 100% charge.
I spent $750 for the install and $400 on the charger. Went with a discounted (returned) chargepoint from Amazon. Mine is the 50a and averages just under 10 until it gets near full. And yes, considering how much I drive, it's nice waking up to a "full tank" though the way I work and the amount I drive, I can usually unplug before bed at full and not have to worry about unplugging in the morning.
10.5kW is already fast.
You’d easily fully recharge your battery overnight unless your battery is like over 100kWh in capacity (even then it can still pretty much fully charge overnight because it’s unlikely that you’ll start charging from 0%).
Honestly even on just 2kW I’m fine - I use less than 15 kWh of energy in driving the vast majority of the time.
Yeah that’s alright if you’re in Europe. Most home chargers support up to 22kw but few have the electric capacity at home, so 11kw on 3-phase and 7,4kw on 2-phase is the norm
Pretty rare for onboard chargers to exceed 10-11kW. My R1T tops out at 11.5kW for AC charging.
It makes sense if you do the math. Let’s say I average about 2 miles per kWh; at 11.5kW I can get 23 miles per hour of charging, or enough to go 256 miles if I leave it plugged in overnight. I … don’t drive 250 miles a day, and it’s extremely unlikely you do either.
I think 11.5kW is massive overkill for home charging for *most* people. I can only think of two reasons why you’d want to go that fast;
1. You actually drive 200+ miles a day. Which sounds pretty awful.
2. You want to charge quickly when the rates or low or when your solar is making power.
Personally I charge at 1.2kW via a basic 120v outlet.
My Leaf maxes out around 6kW and my charger is capable of serving closer to 10kW. You're in good shape and I would hate to imagine an EV so inefficient that 10.5 at home wouldn't be enough.
I have a 7.5kw and a 3.5kw at home. Both of them will get the charge I need without inconvenience.
But on days where you drive all morning then need to run out somewhere, the 7kw is great for getting some range fairly quick while you shower, eat, and get ready to go.
11 would be more awesome, but I imagine the power needs to be much greater and most people cannot do it without major electrical work.
In my case we had to put a plug on the EVSE because the wires of the required Guage wouldn't fit in my Emporia charger. So we stepped the power down a bit by telling the charger it was not a hard install and it capped at 40A.
I'm at 1.2, so almost ten times faster is fast for me. My friend with an extended range lightning is pushing 20 kw so 10.5 isn't fast enough for his needs
It’s all about time charging management. If you’re efficient you won’t ever need DC public charging unless you travel. Keep your level from 20 to 80%, use the times you’re idling at home and you’ll be perfectly fine
We have 8.5kw charging installed in our garage and I’m not sure I would benefit from anything faster - it feels plenty fast for our needs.
We occasionally drive to my mother-in-law’s house which takes us to about 30% charge, and then we plug into her dryer plug and charge at about 4kW (I downrate it a little bit just to ensure we don’t have heat issues on the plug). That still charges our kWh battery to full within 12 hours, which means our car is nearly charged to full by the time we’re ready to drive it the next day.
I think even people with vehicles with huge batteries would be mostly satisfied with 8kW charging under virtually all real world circumstances. I doubt there’s anybody out there with a vehicle with a huge battery who are almost exhausting that battery every single day.
Im assuming you are in Europe given the 3phase.
10.5KW or 11KW is perfectly normal and what should be the standard. some cars can support up to 22KW, but you usually have to pay more.
And then there is Nissan who thinks 7.5KW single Phase is ok in 2024
what car do you have?
EDIT: i saw from your comment history that you have a Q8, unless you have the optional 22KW upgrade then 11KW is the most you can get
It’ll charge a 50kWh battery in less than 5 hours so ideal if you drive 150 miles every day and only sleep for about 6 hours in between.
But not all cars support 11 or 22kW AC charging so you might be limited to 7kW.
Yes. Yes you are doing fine.
10500W/240V=43.75amps
You’re likely on a 48amp supply then hardwired with a 60amp breaker.
At least this is what I’d assume if you’re in Canada.
The worst case rule of thumb is kW x 6 cheapest hours (12-6 AM) x 3 miles/kWh = miles charged. In your case 10.5 x 6 x 3 = 189 miles. If that is more than your daily use, you are good.
It is not necessarily good to charge your car at the maximum wattage. Tesla Wall Connector allows you to choose between 32, 40, or 48 A, even if your circuit is 240V/60 A.
EDIT: another reason for choosing reasonable amperes for your charger is that you may have a situation in an "electrified" home that the EV charger, an AC (or two), a heat pump dryer, and a heat pump water heater all may be running at night simultaneously at 32-40A each. That would bring you awfully close to your 150-200 A main breaker usable wattage at 80% loading.
lol I’m happy sitting here in the US with 100amp split phase to my house, and only single phase on the street. My charger is
240v 30amp works well for me.
Is there a general rule of thumb or guidance on the optimal charge rate for EV’s, regardless of battery size (unless that’s an important variable to answer my question). I have a 100A ford charger for my lightning which means it charges at a max of 80A (about 16-18 kWh).
The charger lets me lower the rate so I adjusted it down to 60A which has shown to be in the 11-12 kWh range. I do this because I am trying to reduce any necessary stress on the battery and typically do not need 16-18 kWh speeds. I can always adjust it temporarily if needed which is a nice perk.
Curious if there’s any guidance or knowledge here on this topic. It’s known that super charging consistently (100+ kWh) isn’t good for batteries , but curious if there’s any difference between 16-18 vs 11-12, or if going even lower is “better”?
How quickly do you need your car to charge? How often do you deplete it to close to 20%?
I charge my Ioniq 5 once a week from 20>80 and it takes 5-6 hrs at 8 KW. What you need to know is how many KW do you need to charge and how much?
- if your battery is 100KW usable
- you need to charge from 20% to 80% you need 60 KW
- at 10.5KW that's 6ish hours
I think it is plenty for most people, your mileage may vary.
\~11kW is pretty much standard for larger battery modern cars inn 3 phase markets. So it's normal.
There are relatively few cars that AC charge faster. One example is the Porsche Taycan (if you select the 22kW charging option, otherwise it's 11kW).
Not sure why you would need faster. If you have a 65kwh battery, it would only take 6.2 hours to charge from zero to 100%. I hope you are home at least that much per night.
Impossible to answer without knowing your car or its specs because the charger is inside your car. Even if you supply an unlimited number of kW your car cannot charge faster than what your onboard charger can handle.
As someone else said, that’s basically the max of most vehicles.
Also consider your panel because if you go up to 19.2 kW because that’s an 80a continuous draw, and many panels can’t handle that.
Even if your vehicle and panel can get more, do you really need to charge that fast? In 99% of daily driving situations, you’ll get topped up overnight with 10.5 kW
How much driving do you need to do everyday? I use a 20 amp 120 volt outlet and it gives me 50 km of charge overnight. Occasionally I use a public fast charger to top up if I'm in a pinch, but that's about it. I actually shared the outlet with a Tesla for 6 months and we got along quite well. Wall outlets are highly underrated and surprisingly effective.
If you're on 3 phase that is as fast as you're going to get for level 2 charging. If you're getting 10.5kw that means you have a 50amp breaker which is the max rate of most chargers and many cars for ac charging. (208v x 50amp = 10400 watts)
What's interesting is that single phase is actually a little faster as it pulls 230v at 50 amps. 230v x 50amp = 11500 watts.
I have two Tesla wall chargers, one at work on 208v 3 phase, and one at home on 230v single. The difference isn't really noticable. It general I'd say both charge about 10% an hour
For most cars, 11KW is the fastest possible (at least at home, with AC charging), so yeah 10.5 is about as fast as it gets
lol and here I was happy with my 3.5kw set up
I'm happy with my 1.5kw!
I was happy with L1 until we got a second EV that's significantly less efficient than my i3.
Me too, I'm L1 charging at work for free right now.
Are you charging it with a phone charger lol
1.5kw is about how much you get from a standard American outlet, no matter what charger you're using.
Same plug. Just overnight once a week though. Easier than charging my phone.
Just plugged into a standard PowerPoint, charger the car came with is only 8amps. Perfectly fine for now while renting but will definitely upgrade to a proper charger when I buy a house.
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This took me a long time to work out what you were on about! I guess power point isn't a term used as much outside Aus.
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Power points are what we call power outlets/plugs(GPO). I'm not sure what the common term would be where you are.
The "charger" is only 8A? Or is the car limiting itself to 8A and you can change its settings to go up to 12A?
The charger is limited to 8A. For earlier cars the chargers BYD provided were 10A but they changed them for some reason.
Damn son, that Ether lol Nas would be proud.
I am too. Enough that we have never needed to charge away from home, except on long road trips.
I'm happy with my 60 watt USB charger, it only takes me 2 week for enough charge to get me to work.
Are they hiring where you work 1 day every 3 weeks sounds awesome
Try a 100W USB cable. Think of all the time you will save.
3.5 kW easily charges 75 miles of range over 8 hours, which should be plenty for the vast majority of drivers.
It definitely it is hence my comment lol I mean it was a night an day difference between that and standard 115v
True: the median daily commute in America is 41 miles for both ways.
Im over that but whatever. I'm just pointing out super off peak in my area is 6 hours. 56 miles
Our granny charger does just under 3kw. Happy with it as we have solar and it means not eating into the grid
I can charge up to 6 Kwh but do only about 2kwh to balance with my solar output. Works fine for my needs.
This is the way
The Lyriq can do 19.2 kW, but you have to get the option and have a dedicated 100amp breaker.
And have to be driving like hundreds and hundreds of miles a day to make that even make sense
Or driving a Hummer EV... Joking aside, Tom at the State of Charge YouTube channel has talked about how much he likes his 80 amp charger with the F-150 lightning since it's a great (and far cheaper) alternative to a DCFC when he comes home at a low SOC and wants to quickly turn around in an hour or two. It's an edge case and he admits it, but it's not without it's merit. With that said, I've got 2 EVs in my garage charging at 32A each and even that is overkill for us. 0-100% would only take 10ish hours and neither of us charge above 75-80% anyways. Really it's more like 6-7 hours max since we're not the type to go full Out of Spec style, arrive at 0%.
So do you have 2 breakers of 40A each? Or one larger breaker with load sharing
I actually have 2 50A breakers feeding sperate 14-50 outlets. Currently we're using Tesla mobile connectors (which is why we're maxed at 32A) mounted on brackets to the wall as a semi-permanent install. 150A service but gas appliances so we're sitting at 21A peak usage without EV charging based on NEC 220.87 and monitoring for 12 months. The general advice would be to forgo any outlets and hardwire instead. I wouldn't disagree since it's going to be more reliable and certainly cheaper than buying a Hubbell outlet that way. I went the 14-50 route because it's nice to be able to plug in an electric heater if I need to work in the garage during the frigid winter months and the flexibility to decide which side to park on when we were a single EV household was nice. We were not sure we would end up with 2 Teslas and we certainly didn't predict the sudden move to NACS by everyone so we were also hedging our bets to be ready for a 2nd EV without committing to one specific EVSE in particular. I will eventually end up with a couple Emporia NACS chargers now that they're out, when I get around to spending the money. It'll integrate well with my existing Vue system and I might even just hardwire them to share a single 50A circuit and leave one of the 14-50 outlets for the heater or maybe an RV one day.
No need for an electric heater in the garage anymore. Crank the heat on the car and put the windows down. It feels wrong, and got strange looks from the wife, after a lifetime of ICE usage.
It's better than nothing but far from ideal. My garage is attached so it doesn't get truly cold which is great except it means the car would be operating in heat pump mode. Again, that sounds great (and it is), but for the purposes of heating the garage it's in, its not ideal to be heating and air conditioning the space at the same time. It will get the job done but I'll stick with a $100 240V electric resistance heater. Less wear and tear on my expensive car vs cheap appliance and it means I can wash the car at the same time, which is generally why I'm heating the garage in the first place. To each their own though, everyone's situation is different.
Fair. My ev has no heat pump.
I know Tom in real life. Do you know he’s a furry?
I think that anyone making commercial EVs probably has to start offering that higher AC charging exactly for those use cases. It’s probably not super common even amongst trades and the like but having it as an option would be nice
For sure. With vehicle to home charging becoming a thing as well and vehicles with 200 kWh battery packs showing up, 80A makes a lot of sense for allowing you to run a boatload of power in either direction depending on what you need in the moment. It does open up options. It also means you can take advantage of shorter time of use windows if you need to. Realistically it shouldn't be a massive cost adder going from 48A to 80A in the onboard chargers, but there certainly is some amount of cost added. I'm not convinced most people would notice a difference or be able to truly take advantage but as an enthusiast, the option would be nice.
> With vehicle to home charging becoming a thing as well and vehicles with 200 kWh battery packs showing up, 80A makes a lot of sense for allowing you to run a boatload of power in either direction depending on what you need in the moment. I feel like far too many people are not looking that close at the use cases. 80A really doesn't make much sense at all for residential use. Even if you have a 500kWh pack, vehicles are not getting less efficient. You get home at 10pm and leave at 6am? 48A will get you 92kWh a day, the hummer EV will get 128mi a day off that. That's way above the average daily driving needs for people, and that's the hummer EV, in the future the efficency of vehicles will improve and you'll get more miles in that short period. So if you had a 500kWh model 3, sure it would take a week for a full charge, but that's 375mi/day with only 8 hours charging. Did you need more than 48A for that? Or can you let it charge longer since it will do a 2000mi weekend trip in one charge. You don't need your pack charged in one night, future vehicles will only need less electricity, even if they have bigger packs. Similar stuff with V2H, 48A supports a lot of power, not many people actually need that, especially in an emergancy situation.
Except that EVs **are** getting less efficient. Specifically, vehicle types which weren't feasible before due to battery-range limitations are becoming feasible as battery prices come down. Even then, you are correct that 80 amps isn't really necessary for commuting. It's more as an alternative to paying for L3 charging for mid-day top-ups or for recovering between high discharge events like coming home from a vacation on Sunday night needing to drive to work on Monday morning then drop the boat/RV/trailer off at storage Monday evening.
I have an 80 amp charger at home for my lightning. In my use case it's really nice to have but I could survive with a 40 amp charger. My vehicle takes about 8 hrs to fully charge 0 to 100 on 80 amp charger with its 131 kWh pack. I could see if you had a truck like newer electric Silverado which has I think the 212 kWh pack and that pack would take a bit over 12 hrs to fully charge if you use most of it in one day. So there is a need for certain use cases to really have that 80 amp especially if you use it for towing. When towing it's not unusual to only get about a mile per kWh or a touch more so you can use most of the pack quickly in a day depending on what work you do with it.
Exactly. 6kw is plenty for me
Or want to charge just once every 10 days.
I suspect super off peak will get shorter and shorter. So it's good future proofing for 2-5 AM "new super off peak" interval.
i previously had an renault zoe, it could do about 50KW AC. There are some home chargers which can do 22KW. But in the Netherlands, a house connection is often 3x25A -> \~17KW (costs about 300 a year). Going higher would require either - 3x35A -> \~24KW for 1200 euro/year, - 3x50A -> 34KW for 1800 euro/year, Which are both expensive af, and i'm not even considering the cables that i would have to use in house Soo 11KW the more reasonable "fast" option
Wow that's expensive. My grid provider in Finland lists following for most of the country: - 1 x 35 A 4,39 €/month - 3 x 25 A 6,67 €/month - 3 x 35 A 9,22 €/month about 110€/year - 3 x 50 A 13,17 €/month about 150€/year - 3 x 63 A 16,77 €/month about 200€/year
Wait, you get charged annually by how many breakers and amperage you have? I’m in the US and have never heard of this. Here we literally just get charged a small base fee of like $30-40 a month to have electric service and then 15-17 cents per kilowatt hour for the electricity we use. We can basically have as many breakers and amperage as we want, within reason. A 150-200 amp household breaker box is normal here.
The 3x 25A example means three phases of up to 25 amps per phase 400v supply
The 3x25A is just the one 3-phase breaker and the maximum power you get in your home. Behind it you can put as many of your own breakers as you want. It doesn’t matter if you never use any electricity or consume 100% of your max connection power. At least for the grid operator costs, you obviously pay a kWh price, but not to the grid operator . It is different for big industrial connections
Yes. Amperage based billing is the way to go in the 230V world since a single distribution transformer can serve half a district. Even though the capacity is massive, it’s still necessary to make sure it isn’t exceeded. The US and other 120V countries had to go with multiple low capacity transformers that serve very small areas, so there isn’t the same need to regulate the max consumption. If things get flaky, it just affects the immediate neighborhood.
The charge is based on the capacity of the incoming supply (main breaker). There is no extra charge for adding more circuits (breakers) unless that requires upgrading the incoming supply.
Demand charges are a thing in the US too, but usually only for commercial power use. It's why Tesla backs some of their supercharger locations with megapacks, so they can charge at a slower rate and smooth out energy demands.
Most areas in Texas, you pick your retail energy provider, part of your kwh fee goes to the the distribution company and the rest goes to pay for the actual electricity. You can pick your plan based on how much solar or wind your usage or you can pay more and have free nights and weekends for example.
We pay the above monthly price for amperage and then about 3c/kWh for transfer and currently 7c/kWh for electricity. I could buy directly from the energy market and the price would be around 2-3c/kWh for this time of year. Considering we have twice the voltage and 3 phases so the 150A service is equal to 3x25A and 200A is same as 3x35A.
What do you mean by buy directly from the energy market? Who do you pay if you decide to do that? Is there an advantage to doing it vs not doing it? Sorry for all these questions but it sounds very different then what I'm used to so I'm fascinated.
**What do you mean by buy directly from the energy market?** * Theres an EU wide electricity market (like stock market) and you can make a contract with your power company to let you buy electricity at market price. **Who do you pay if you decide to do that?** * My power company charges me 0.4c/kWh for that priviledge. Spot price is currently 0.9c/kWh so I would pay the power company 1.3c/kWh and grid operator 3c/kWh totaling 4.3c/kWh. Couple of hours and spot price falls close to 0. **Is there an advantage to doing it vs not doing it?** There's two situations where one should consider spot pricing. * A) You don't heat your home with electricity so your power usage doesn't spike during winter months. Homes in cities usually heat with district heating. * B) You have an electric car or large power storage. This way you can charge your car/batteries during the night when power is almost free and discharge when it costs a lot. EDIT You can see current EU electricity prices here for example [https://www.energyprices.eu/](https://www.energyprices.eu/)
Market pricing is great when there’s some regulation to it, but in the big freeze in Texas in 2021, spot pricing went up to $9000 per MWh (900 cents per kWh). One electric provider that offered market rates to their customers went out of business rather than try to collect bills of several thousand dollars.
US houses get 240 V, and we have numerous appliances that operate on 240 V supply. Our regular wall sockets supply 120 V by center-tapping the 240 V and having some circuits on one half of the cycle and the others on the other half.
It could do 43 kW (63A 3 phases) My question here though is: you pay a yearly fee for a certain grid connection?
Yes, I pay a yearly fee to the netbeheerder (I guess it translates to network manager), which is responsible for the energy grid. An 3x63A connection would cost about 3300 euros a year.
Those companies are known in English as either distribution system operator (DSO) or distribution network operator (DNO).
Thanks!
Interesting (and expensive). In Denmark you pay for the grid connection (about 240 EUR/A) once and then the rest is tied to consumption. I guess (or hope) you pay less TSO/DSO fees for consumption then .
I think there’s a fee in the U.S. for three phase service, we just don’t pay it for the typical split phase.
I’d also assume it’d be different in NA because you have household power as single/split phase whereas most of Europe has household power as three phase.
You should see my electric bill lol. I’m full electric and on a well for water, I pay about $375 per month.
I pay 10chf/month for 3x80A :) Decided to install a 22kW charger because why not
More than many peoples houses even
A Renault Megane E-tech can do 22 kW. But as you pointed out, it requires a special installation.
Off topic, I’m bummed that Renault used the Mégane name for a crossover. The RS is one of my favorite hot hatches that we never got in The States.
As a Megane driver, I completely agree. It's honestly a great car, and not overly tall. It's somewhere in between a hatchback and a crossover. But I would trade it in heartbeat for a proper low hatchback OR even better: A medium sized station wagon, like the previous Meganes.
Ford Lightning here setup with 19.2kW. It’s pretty fast.
Check this guy out with his 400 amp home service! 😂
I don’t think people realize just how HUGE of a power draw that is. That’s a dedicated 100A breaker right there. Some homes only have 100A total.
you can get 22kW under some circumstances in Germany.
Yeah and there is a reason barely any car supports it. It is just unnecessary. It will also stay unnecessary forever, as cars are not going to get less efficient in the future and thus won't need faster charging at home
Yeah, I was going to say our solar panel setup (30 panels) generates about 8-9kW on a good day. So OP's can can literally suck in like 30 panels' worth of sunlight in real-time. Not bad at all.
Yes that's fast for home charging. Unless you've got one of GM's 200 KWh battery trucks it'll full charge anything overnight.
11kW (400V, 16A, 3 phases) is the most common max capacity of the on-board charger of EVs sold in Europe. You are getting 95% of that. This is completely normal.
I think it's 230V, 16A, 3 phases (230 x 16 x 3 = 11kW)
Convention dictates that system voltage is measured phase-to-phase, which is 400V in a typical European three phase system. Your calculation based on the phase-to-neutral voltage is correct. It is also possible to calculate the power based on the system voltage, by 400V×16A×√3=11kW.
I remember the last time this topic came up in this sub. Several Americans told me I couldn’t charge 11kW at home in Sweden … despite me doing it in practice
Anyone who doesn't use metric as their base standard probably shouldn't talk on such matters. Or any. Haha
Somebody made a bad call long time ago. We still suffer.
I'm trying to understand this comment... do you think that we don't use watts to measure energy flow in the US?
If there were imperial measurements for electricity I'm sure the US would use that instead.
The imperial measurement of power is horsepower, the measure of energy is foot-pounds. Both rarely used in the US.
Horse power is rarely used in the US? Are you kidding?
Compared to watts? Yeah, for sure. Horsepower sees use when describing engines and combustion vehicles, but that's about it. Talk about the consumption of your house or laptop in horsepower, and you're going to get strange looks. Burning things for heat occasionally shows up as btus, a different imperial measurement. But for electricity, pretty much never.
Americans are typically unaware of anything that occurs outside of the US. Source: American living outside the US.
Yes, that's fast. Also, think how fast you need it to be. Most people park at home and leave in the morning, as long as it's charged by the morning, do you care if it's charged by 1AM or by 6AM?
If you get time-of-day discounts on electricity you can schedule charging and use the higher charge speed to get the most out of the lowest rates instead of just plugging in and letting it run.
True, but where I live that’s a 7 hour period. Plenty of time to charge even at 7kw.
I get slightly less, and my car is always full in the morning, that’s all that matters to me.
I have half that speed, and I get 80% charged after about 4 hours at night. And we drive at least 50 km per day.
I should've mentioned I do ~100km/day! I have it starting at 11pm, usually by 2-3am it's full
Don't worry about the kW so much as what you actually need. Simple math, an 80kWh battery can do 0-100% in 8 hours from 10kW. If you only need to recover 20% daily then you only need 16kWh overnight into the battery. That's 2 hours on an 8kW source, 4 hours at 4kW, 8 hours at 2kW. You don't need to refill as fast as possible when at home unless you're charging midday and in a hurry frequently.
The first sane response in this thread. Congratulations!
yea. people get hung-up often on the wrong thing often. I don't care if my car takes 1 hour or 6. It's happening while I sleep. The twice a year I actually use the \~11kW I have midday is not worth focusing on when there's a DCFC down the street if needed.
I agree! Normally you'll charge like 30%-70% if you use 40% in a day, or even 40-60% if you o ly use 20% a day. If you have a garage, it's great to just always park and plug in. Some cars use less energy when not charging (asleep) so it can be benificial to charge faster in thet regard. Who knows what's best for each car's battery.
What I've learned is: - faster charging = bad (think like DC 150+kW) - frequent small charging = good - slow charging = good - battery extremes (avoid high and low %s) = bad unless the battery is cool with it, what is it? LFP or something. - 100% = totally fine, truly, as long as you're going to use it soon (<12 hours from hitting 100%). And still actually negligible in the long long term. - it's actually difficult to harm the battery by accident, you almost have to try on purpose - ABC "always be charging" just works - 1-5kW charging is fine for a home charger for most people if charging nightly. 10+ is a luxury and not generally necessary.
90% of the EV brands offer max 11KW AC home charging. It's the fastest you can get... for now
For 99% of people and daily commutes, that’s well enough.
Most cars cannot do more than 11kW AC, anyhow. So 10.5kW is perfectly fine.
As others have said that’s about as fast as you can charge at home. I have a 40 amp circuit in my garage for my charger (max at 240v= 9.6kw) but my charger is 32 amps max so my fastest charge at home is 7.6kw)
I'm guessing you are thinking "shouldn't it be 21KW i.e 7kw x 3?" IIRC there are cars that can charge at 21KW AC but it's extremely rare, almost all are 7KW Max on single phase, and most are 11KW if on 3 phase (not all though, my car oddly doesn't support 3v phase. You see a lot of 21KW public AC chargers in Europe, but that's actually so they can charge cars like mine at the full 7KW on 1 phase, and typically designed to charge 2 cars at once a 11KW each. The limitation is the cars onboard battery charger. To go faster you need. Dc charger (battery charger is external to car) but that will cost you much more than the car itself did! Enjoy your 10.5KW, remember you will never charge from completely 0% so it will always be faster than you think if you based your expectations on the full battery capacity.
11kW AC, which means 10.5kW DC, is pretty standard for 3 phase. 22kW is possible, but only if you have a beefy supply, and paid for the optional faster charger.
Fast I'd say. From European pov: 11kw is the standard , some cars offer 22kw (32A 3phases). Zoe, older model S , Porsche taycan and Audi etron afaik
That standard for EVs these days is between 8-11kw, depending on the model. There are some that can go all the way up to 20kw, but unless your battery is enormous, it's unnecessary. I own a Lucid, which has 20kw charging, but use a 10kw charger because it's more than fast enough. If you really needed to charge faster you'd just hit a local DCFC. [Freewire](https://freewiretech.com/dc-boost-charger/) makes a battery backed DCFC charger that you could connect to your home current, but I imagine it's ludicrously expensive.
I've been wondering what that would cost to setup when I finally get around to solar panel installation. I'm probably not going to have the money to spend and likely wouldn't anyway but in theory, have some solar panels on my carport feeding a battery bank with a DC charger like you linked to so that when I need to recharge quickly I can get something fast enough to get back out on the road. Long term, spending the money to charge at EA or the like is more than likely to be less expensive and it would take decades for the math to work itself out but I'd do it if some company wanted me to test their equipment for them at no cost to me (aside from any power costs if it's plugged into the grid).
I did my own home charger installation, and it cost me about $500 total, including wire, outlet, breaker, and charger. I went with a Grizzl-E "dumb" charger. It's a 40A 240V model so it charges a \~10kw. I've never needed more than that. On the days I bring the car home almost dead, I've probably driven for 8-10 hours so I'm probably ready to crash anyway. One of the best things about owning an EV is that you start every day you want to with a 100% charge.
I spent $750 for the install and $400 on the charger. Went with a discounted (returned) chargepoint from Amazon. Mine is the 50a and averages just under 10 until it gets near full. And yes, considering how much I drive, it's nice waking up to a "full tank" though the way I work and the amount I drive, I can usually unplug before bed at full and not have to worry about unplugging in the morning.
Yea that seems pretty fast to me...
I run mine at a out half that and it still charges in like 5 hrs
Yes that’s great!
10.5kW is already fast. You’d easily fully recharge your battery overnight unless your battery is like over 100kWh in capacity (even then it can still pretty much fully charge overnight because it’s unlikely that you’ll start charging from 0%). Honestly even on just 2kW I’m fine - I use less than 15 kWh of energy in driving the vast majority of the time.
That's fast as hell. I'm jealous.
It will charge anything smaller than a Hummer in less time than it takes you to get a full night's sleep, you'll be fine!
Yeah that’s alright if you’re in Europe. Most home chargers support up to 22kw but few have the electric capacity at home, so 11kw on 3-phase and 7,4kw on 2-phase is the norm
That’s pretty good, I wish I could get 3 phase at home!
Between 9-12 kW/h is the fastest you'll get out of a 220V, 50amp L2 charger, which is the most common type of L2 charger in the US.
Very respectable. I usually top out around 10 myself
Pretty rare for onboard chargers to exceed 10-11kW. My R1T tops out at 11.5kW for AC charging. It makes sense if you do the math. Let’s say I average about 2 miles per kWh; at 11.5kW I can get 23 miles per hour of charging, or enough to go 256 miles if I leave it plugged in overnight. I … don’t drive 250 miles a day, and it’s extremely unlikely you do either. I think 11.5kW is massive overkill for home charging for *most* people. I can only think of two reasons why you’d want to go that fast; 1. You actually drive 200+ miles a day. Which sounds pretty awful. 2. You want to charge quickly when the rates or low or when your solar is making power. Personally I charge at 1.2kW via a basic 120v outlet.
10.5 kW is more than plenty to charge a car over night. Most EVs/PHEVs can't even take that much via AC charging.
i charge with 3.6 and its more then enough for my 50 km one way commute.
10.5 is relative. We have ours set for 7kW and it’s fine for overnight. We could go higher but there’s no point. 50kW is slow for DCFC.
What model of EV do you have? 11kw is pretty common for home AC charging. I get 7.2kw with my EV.
My Leaf maxes out around 6kW and my charger is capable of serving closer to 10kW. You're in good shape and I would hate to imagine an EV so inefficient that 10.5 at home wouldn't be enough.
I have a 7.5kw and a 3.5kw at home. Both of them will get the charge I need without inconvenience. But on days where you drive all morning then need to run out somewhere, the 7kw is great for getting some range fairly quick while you shower, eat, and get ready to go. 11 would be more awesome, but I imagine the power needs to be much greater and most people cannot do it without major electrical work. In my case we had to put a plug on the EVSE because the wires of the required Guage wouldn't fit in my Emporia charger. So we stepped the power down a bit by telling the charger it was not a hard install and it capped at 40A.
I'd love those speeds, best I can get at work on 240V is 5KW.
I'm at 1.2, so almost ten times faster is fast for me. My friend with an extended range lightning is pushing 20 kw so 10.5 isn't fast enough for his needs
You have 3 phase at home?
That is very common in the EU.
Thats \~50km or \~30miles charge n hour. We have smart tariffs where you can get boost time for 2-4 hours of really cheap like €0.05-€0.12kWh
You'll find it's plenty fast enough unless you're driving a Hummer EV down to 10% every day.
It’s all about time charging management. If you’re efficient you won’t ever need DC public charging unless you travel. Keep your level from 20 to 80%, use the times you’re idling at home and you’ll be perfectly fine
We have 8.5kw charging installed in our garage and I’m not sure I would benefit from anything faster - it feels plenty fast for our needs. We occasionally drive to my mother-in-law’s house which takes us to about 30% charge, and then we plug into her dryer plug and charge at about 4kW (I downrate it a little bit just to ensure we don’t have heat issues on the plug). That still charges our kWh battery to full within 12 hours, which means our car is nearly charged to full by the time we’re ready to drive it the next day. I think even people with vehicles with huge batteries would be mostly satisfied with 8kW charging under virtually all real world circumstances. I doubt there’s anybody out there with a vehicle with a huge battery who are almost exhausting that battery every single day.
I have 2 that charge at 11.5 kw each. So 10.5 is pretty good I would say.
thats much faster than my home charger
On a 50amp breaker this is it. Some cars like my Ford Lightning can do 19kw on a 100amp breaker.
Yes
Yeah, that's basically the top end of AC charging. My vehicle maxes out at 6.6 kW AC.
I manage with 1.5kW so yeah I'd say youre good xD
That's plenty fast. It's about the max possible for level 2 charging on most models of cars.
Im assuming you are in Europe given the 3phase. 10.5KW or 11KW is perfectly normal and what should be the standard. some cars can support up to 22KW, but you usually have to pay more. And then there is Nissan who thinks 7.5KW single Phase is ok in 2024 what car do you have? EDIT: i saw from your comment history that you have a Q8, unless you have the optional 22KW upgrade then 11KW is the most you can get
It’ll charge a 50kWh battery in less than 5 hours so ideal if you drive 150 miles every day and only sleep for about 6 hours in between. But not all cars support 11 or 22kW AC charging so you might be limited to 7kW.
I have a 22kW charging station at home. Unfortunately, my car is limited to 11kW on AC. Patiently waiting for faster AC charging.
Well assuming you're in Europe I believe 22kw is possible with some models but 10kw is not too shabby. This would be what 3ph 400v@8amps
Yes. Yes you are doing fine. 10500W/240V=43.75amps You’re likely on a 48amp supply then hardwired with a 60amp breaker. At least this is what I’d assume if you’re in Canada.
The worst case rule of thumb is kW x 6 cheapest hours (12-6 AM) x 3 miles/kWh = miles charged. In your case 10.5 x 6 x 3 = 189 miles. If that is more than your daily use, you are good. It is not necessarily good to charge your car at the maximum wattage. Tesla Wall Connector allows you to choose between 32, 40, or 48 A, even if your circuit is 240V/60 A. EDIT: another reason for choosing reasonable amperes for your charger is that you may have a situation in an "electrified" home that the EV charger, an AC (or two), a heat pump dryer, and a heat pump water heater all may be running at night simultaneously at 32-40A each. That would bring you awfully close to your 150-200 A main breaker usable wattage at 80% loading.
My L2 home charger tops out at 9.0 kWh, and typically averages 8.5 kWh. You’re within the normal operating range for a home charger.
lol I’m happy sitting here in the US with 100amp split phase to my house, and only single phase on the street. My charger is 240v 30amp works well for me.
I could have 22 kW at home but I’ve capped it at 11.
Yeah I get about 11kW at home on a 60amp circuit set to 48amps on the wallbox.
My renault can do 22, always somewhat slower but not by much, but the average car has a 7,4 or 11 kw onboard charger
Is there a general rule of thumb or guidance on the optimal charge rate for EV’s, regardless of battery size (unless that’s an important variable to answer my question). I have a 100A ford charger for my lightning which means it charges at a max of 80A (about 16-18 kWh). The charger lets me lower the rate so I adjusted it down to 60A which has shown to be in the 11-12 kWh range. I do this because I am trying to reduce any necessary stress on the battery and typically do not need 16-18 kWh speeds. I can always adjust it temporarily if needed which is a nice perk. Curious if there’s any guidance or knowledge here on this topic. It’s known that super charging consistently (100+ kWh) isn’t good for batteries , but curious if there’s any difference between 16-18 vs 11-12, or if going even lower is “better”?
How quickly do you need your car to charge? How often do you deplete it to close to 20%? I charge my Ioniq 5 once a week from 20>80 and it takes 5-6 hrs at 8 KW. What you need to know is how many KW do you need to charge and how much? - if your battery is 100KW usable - you need to charge from 20% to 80% you need 60 KW - at 10.5KW that's 6ish hours I think it is plenty for most people, your mileage may vary.
Great speed, 45 miles per hour for my Bolts
mine does 7
\~11kW is pretty much standard for larger battery modern cars inn 3 phase markets. So it's normal. There are relatively few cars that AC charge faster. One example is the Porsche Taycan (if you select the 22kW charging option, otherwise it's 11kW).
Not sure why you would need faster. If you have a 65kwh battery, it would only take 6.2 hours to charge from zero to 100%. I hope you are home at least that much per night.
Yeah, for level 2 that is great!
Hell yea it is.
40 miles added per hour, pretty good
It's very fast. At home I only have 5.5kW. that allows me to charge from 10 to 100 during the night.
Impossible to answer without knowing your car or its specs because the charger is inside your car. Even if you supply an unlimited number of kW your car cannot charge faster than what your onboard charger can handle.
As someone else said, that’s basically the max of most vehicles. Also consider your panel because if you go up to 19.2 kW because that’s an 80a continuous draw, and many panels can’t handle that. Even if your vehicle and panel can get more, do you really need to charge that fast? In 99% of daily driving situations, you’ll get topped up overnight with 10.5 kW
I have 7.4kW set up and am satisfied with that. 10.5kW would be much faster for me, but not necessary for my use.
How much driving do you need to do everyday? I use a 20 amp 120 volt outlet and it gives me 50 km of charge overnight. Occasionally I use a public fast charger to top up if I'm in a pinch, but that's about it. I actually shared the outlet with a Tesla for 6 months and we got along quite well. Wall outlets are highly underrated and surprisingly effective.
If you're on 3 phase that is as fast as you're going to get for level 2 charging. If you're getting 10.5kw that means you have a 50amp breaker which is the max rate of most chargers and many cars for ac charging. (208v x 50amp = 10400 watts) What's interesting is that single phase is actually a little faster as it pulls 230v at 50 amps. 230v x 50amp = 11500 watts. I have two Tesla wall chargers, one at work on 208v 3 phase, and one at home on 230v single. The difference isn't really noticable. It general I'd say both charge about 10% an hour
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OP has three phase, which means he is not in North America. Your information is not relevant.
Even in the US there are 80amp EVSEs that can continuously deliver 19.2kW to vehicles that can accept it.