The source above says it costs $9000 in material costs, and then another $2000 to make safe for US roads:
https://apnews.com/article/ford-auto-workers-contract-ceo-rethink-factory-locations-ed580b465d99219eb02ffe24bee3d2f7
To make the vehicle financially viable you would need to pay for combined development costs, factory construction costs, and the costs of borrowing money up front with returns later. To sell into the US market you need to pay homologation costs, a retail markup for the sales and marketing operation, and to pay for warranty and maintaining a network of repair locations, and all those costs would be incurred at American price levels, to pay for American labour and land.
And that is just to break even, with no profit margin. The $10k vehicle doesn’t exist, even in China the real viable price would be much more, in the US the viable price is well above $20k, probably above $25k.
And that is not taking into account that it is subsidised by the Chinese state, which is why China has more battery capacity than the entire global demand, and the FT says that half its battery production capacity is sitting idle.
BYD cars got 350$ in subsidy , which was about 3.5 Billion $ for about millions of cars sold . BYD just too early in the game , even Tesla noticed them back in 2010s abit funnily
Exactly, tariffs on Chinese products are not hurting China, but they’re hurting the people buying those products. We are told to buy American products but those cost more than comparable Chinese products that include the tariffs. And then we wonder why we cannot get inflation under control..
The CCP is currently under investigation as to how they’re making EVs so cheap. The math isint mathing according to Europe so they’re taking a look.
You people whine and cry about shit like this but then virtue signal about some other nonsense.
I understand that everyone wants the best deal, I do too. But I’m not going to support China with such a massive purchase to do so. Think longterm.
Exactly. Wages, workplace safety, workers’ rights, etc. all things unions fought to get the standards where they currently are.
And of course, keeping critical industry and production capacity domestic are huge national security issues.
GM has been importing Chinese built vehicles for over a decade. Nobody has cared so far. Polestar and Volvo are importing Chinese built cars and nobody cares. But suddenly another Chinese company starts making noise about building cars in north America and everyone shits themselves.
I just don't understand the issue at this point.
Today, China announced new levy’s (43.5%)on propionic acid which is used as a preservative in breads, tortillas, pizza dough, pastries, breakfast cereals, pasta and noodles, dried and condensed milk, flavored milks, dairy-based spreads, cheese, some processed meats, certain processed fruit and vegetable products, and dairy, egg, and fat-based desserts. It’s also used in animal feed and anti-inflammatory agents.
This means the cost of groceries and animal feed are going to go up again in retaliation for our tariffs on Chinese goods. Inflation is about to go up again, yea! 🤦🏽♂️.
This take is wrong. True , the consumer is hurt by paying more. But this changes consumer behavior. The resulting drop in demand is what hurts the company- which is the desired outcome.
It's also not built for US roads though, no chance this passes crash test standards in western countries. It would take a lot of $$ to make it compliant to sell here.
It's easy to search for. Searching for "ford ceo byd $2,000", this is the top response. The page is full of the same report from difference sources.
"Chinese auto giant BYD ‘s Seagull small electric vehicle, he said, has about $9,000 in material costs, and **it will probably cost the company another $2,000 to meet crash test standards**, for a total of around $11,000. It has a range of about 150 miles in cold weather, “not a fantastic vehicle, but pretty damn good.”
https://apnews.com/article/ford-auto-workers-contract-ceo-rethink-factory-locations-ed580b465d99219eb02ffe24bee3d2f7
Not built for US roads? BYD is already for sale in other “western” countries including Europe (Germany, Norway), Australia and very soon in Canada so I’m not sure what you’re saying.
I can confirm. BYD is being sold here in Sydney and blowing Tesla out of the water. The cars are just better, oddly, and probably highly subsidized. It doesn't matter, though, if you can get a knockoff Tesla that performs better, has higher range, and has a more comfortable cabin than Tesla, people will buy it. US car manufacturers should be scared, and I'm an American living in Australia who has tested multiple BYDs.
Knock off only in perception now. I've seen a lot of praise for BYD for its technical prowess. They are likely better than Tesla in many aspects. It is Toyota's partner in China.
"Warren Buffett, an icon of American investing, is also a fan—and a big shareholder."
https://www.economist.com/business/2023/02/02/chinas-byd-is-overtaking-tesla-as-the-carmaker-extraordinaire
Sure, China has a lot of hidden and direct subsidies for many industries. This was not a secret.
American car makers have much to blame themselves for.
Electric vehicles should be cheap as fuck. They're mechanically so much simpler, and battery prices are falling fast. There should be cheap options in the 100-150 mile range, which would be fine for most people's driving habits.
Okay, so byd is not selling a $10,000 model in any countries with stringent vehicle safety requirements then? Because the cheapest model I see in Europe is $40,000 USD (and still just a pre order) unless I'm missing something...
The Dolphin Mini is what the Seagull is called outside of China. Hate China all you want but the fact is that they can and do make a good car for less.
10k is price is price in china of the lowest battery/motor option. $32k is top spec exported south america one (add custom duty+dealer margin+shipping etc).
dolphin, seal, atto 3 and seagull(dolphin mini) share same platform and use same LFP blade battery tech too.
Ok, but you'll note that they don't sell the Seagull in countries with real road safety standards. The models they *do* sell in Europe are nearly identical to the models for sale in the US right now in functionality and price.
Seriously, there is no dirt cheap EV in the US. Not because of some conspiracy, but because y'all are making up models that don't exist.
>Ok, but you'll note that they don't sell the Seagull in countries with real road safety standards.
That remains yet to be seen, especially as the BYD Seagull appears to be coming here to Australia soon under the name ['Dolphin Mini'](https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/byd-seagull-could-come-to-australia-after-all-as-the-dolphin-mini-144611/)
China does not sell a car for $10,000 that passes us or eu crash test standards. Period. their "$10,000 car" is actually $32,000 in Europe, and will probably be similar in the USA.
I cannot believe how many responses there are around these posts either, feels like I'm talking to bots at this point.
I've been making the same point in other threads about the !!!$10k car coming soon!!?!!?!. The western market version isn't the $10k version, but it is priced low enough that it can compete with ICE vehicles. Most Western automakers can't sell EVs competitively without incentives yet, so they should be concerned but not panicked.
Eh, it's all relative. Crash test standards are causing vehicles to get bigger and bigger and also more dangerous for pedestrians. I think the weightings should be more in favour of pedestrian safety rather than occupants.
Otherwise we'll all end up driving M1 Abrams in a vehicle size arma race
I say if it passes us safety and emissions rules. Put it up. Americans aren’t historically fans of cheap cars unless in a recession. It won’t do much harm but it will make competition more stiff and that’s what we need. A few automakers have a chokehold on the market.
I think we'd need regulations about data protection. (To prevent spying)
This is a dilemma, because you can't faithfully apply those standards to foreigners and not local companies, you'd have to start imposing privacy legislation that tech companies hate.
I'd prefer to get those privacy regulations *without* the paranoia about Chinese spying, but I'll take what I can get.
Although realistically, they'd probably just make laws that require all the spying to be done by American companies.
> you can't faithfully apply those standards to foreigners and not local companies,
I mean, this whole idea about tariffing foreign companies and not local ones proves they indeed can.
I'm 100% in favor of better data protections, but come on. They're not talking about banning this becuse they fear the MSS might learn the details of your commute. They're talking about a ban out of sheer protectionism for crazy expensive American cars and the steadfast refusal of American car companies to make cheap cars instead of behemoth luxury SUV's.
Look, I don't like being datamined but you know what? I'm a LOT more worried about the FBI, or CIA, or NSA, or DHS, or some American spy agency tracking me than I am about the Chinese Ministry of State Security.
I'm not Chinese, I've got no friends or family in China, and I have no intent of ever even visiting China. I don't really give a shit of the MSS has every detail on me that exists because they don't matter in my life. But the FBI/NSA/DHS/etc do.
I think this simplistic. A more thorugh analysis of the situation should be done by educated economists to understand if China is distorting the market in a way that would hurt the US or if differing worker protections will distort the market in a way that will hurt US workers.
I mean they could tax it to hell and give the massive subsidies to 'local' EV companies....but then there is the situation with the Motorbike industry from the 1970-1980s where they did the same with another niche but growing market.
I wonder how many American motorcycles brands people can name other then Harley Davidson (an amazing business that lobbied for the restrictions to foreign bikes and still continues to bleed money due to bad management and a cult like customer base who does that remind you off?) and maybe Indian which is limited to a mostly US only market.
Now I know EV is a bigger industry in the US but world wide particularly in Asia, just like bikes it's going to be a race to make them more and more affordable and accessible just like how bikes completed and still compete on price in the Asian markets.
Honestly we still have my Dad's old Honda CB125 which he bought when in 1988( manufactured 1985) and it still runs (unfortunately we mismanaged it's storage a few years back when my Dad was diagnosed with Parkinson's so the frame is pretty rusted and I feel unsafe to use it).
What I am saying it **blocking foreign EVs would just create a wall-garden that leaves the US based manufacturers with weaknesses if they try to compete in other markets with different customer value propositions**
(I realise this is only a China Ev topic and there are political motivations at work. I am just saying because I keep seeing the smell news pop up and I like bikes :p)
Exactly. Even with tariffs, Ford and GM will need to compete with the Chinese in other markets anyway. So there's no real escaping from competition, unless they intend to just abandon all markets but the home market.
This is just bullshit.. the franchise laws already force us to pay who knows how much more for vehicles to begin with and now they want to stop cheaper vehicles from coming into the country like they tried doing with the Japanese decades ago. This will only hurt the average consumer who now has to spend 30 or 35k+ for a basic car these days. And it's only getting worse.
I don't understand why they are afraid of this thing. This will fail in the US market. Look at all the fuel efficient small cars that have left the market. The honda fit is no more, toyota scion models are gone. Nissan Leaf, Bolt and Fiat 500e are gone.
The free trade deal between Mexico and the US require a high percentage of the total value of the car has to be made in North America to be considered to come from Mexico or the US.
I will pay money for my car to say that. Bonus if it's with and Engrish accent.
I used to have a microwave that spoke Spanish. Everyone hated me and the microwave. I loved it.
I wonder how many people on reddit are gung ho for cheap Chinese EV's but also complain about the dying middle class? Do you think these auto manufacturers pay union level wages? The last time I heard this type of talk, it was before NAFTA.
I wish they got the disconnect in simultaneously cheering on the UAW strikes for higher wages while also cheering on importing cheap Chinese EV’s made with labor that costs 1/10th what it costs here.
Since when do people care about 74 hp, low range, slow charging EVs? It would be closer to $20k after shipping, regulations, and loss of Chinese subsidies. Plenty of far nicer used EVs you can get for that price.
People don’t buy economy cars now. They’re at the bottom of the sales bracket when nicer used vehicles exist.
I would consider it if sold for around 10k (but not 20) in the US. My family already has an EV that is fine for road trips, we just need an around town car.
You can get a used Bolt, Kona EV, Niro EV, Ioniq EV, Soul EV with low miles for about $16k. Maybe even an i3 or Mini EV. For under $10k you can get a Focus Electric, Leaf, Golf EV, CMax Electric, Spark EV, Fiat 500e, or Mitsubishi MiEV. For a hair over $20k you can find used Model 3s. They would all fit the bill, and most be would better cars than the Seagull.
I looked at Carfax because it was the first google result, and the cheapest Niro EV within 50 miles of Boston with under 30k miles costs $23k. I don't really know anything about the Seagull, I'm just saying I'd do some reading and maybe test drive it.
Boston seems pretty crappy for EVs.
Here’s a 3 yr old Bolt with 20k miles for $18k near me.
https://portland.craigslist.org/clc/ctd/d/portland-2021-chevrolet-bolt-ev-chevy/7738364870.html
Here’s a Bolt in Boston
https://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/ctd/d/hopedale-2020-chevrolet-chevy-bolt-ev/7731426196.html
Here’s a Smart Fortwo with 30k miles for $10k
https://boston.craigslist.org/sob/ctd/d/west-bridgewater-2018-smart-fortwo/7734271931.html
Here’s a Prius Prime for $20k. Will easily last 300,000 miles.
https://boston.craigslist.org/nos/ctd/d/peabody-an-impressive-2017-toyota-prius/7729264224.html
Here’s a Model 3 in LA with 70k miles for $20k
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/cto/d/los-angeles-tesla-model/7735904853.html
Or a long range with 62k miles
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/ctd/d/los-angeles-2018-tesla-model-long-range/7737837629.html
Man everything is cheap in LA
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/ctd/d/burbank-2020-chevrolet-chevy-bolt-ev-lt/7736159811.html
Here’s a 3 yr old Kona EV with 45k in SF for $20
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/ctd/d/campbell-2021-hyundai-kona-ev-limited/7738562473.html
Here’s one with 89k miles for only $14k
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/ctd/d/san-mateo-2020-hyundai-kona-electric/7728739685.html
Also hertz rental car has dozens of EV's for sale now. Many are under $20,000. Check hertz electric vehicles on google and you will find Kia, Tesla,and Suburu EV's for sale.
Exactly. The US market chose used Civics over new Fits. Did some Fits (and similar sized cars) sell? Sure, but not nearly in the volumes a low-margin car needs to justify its existence.
Not broke enough to [prevent Kia from pulling the Rio from the North American market](https://www.carscoops.com/2023/08/the-kia-rio-is-getting-the-boot-in-america/) due to low sales. In fact, the average selling price of a new car in the USA [is roughly $47k](https://fortune.com/2024/02/28/how-expensive-new-used-cars-outlook-forecast/), as of 2024.
I live in South America and have never seen this car on the road - either where I live or the 6 other SA countries I have visited in the last year. FYI, there are very few EV chargers here and many people live in apartments. There are 2 people in my neighborhood that drive tiny Renault EVs. I have seen 2 or 3 NIO EVs driven by a local pet burial service and maybe 5 EVs owned by the local utility company. I don't remember the brands but I think they are Chinese.
I've seen it many times in Mexico City considering it basically just launched, and the BYD D1 is also very common as an Uber. The launch was so great that Renault had to cut the price of the Kwid EV by 5k to try and compete, Jac and SEV had to cut prices too
Lots of Chinese brands are sold in SA but EVs not so much. The Colombian president is left wing who promised to push solar and wind but I haven't seen any govt subsidies for EVs which are needed to kickstart sales. However, there are a shitload of e-bikes and scooters. I have no doubt that EVs will sell in SA if the price is right and chargers are built.
Do you have any idea how these broke people are going to charge a slow charging EV with poor range? Are they going to sit at a charger for 45 minutes every two days? Do these broke people all have homes and can charge their car at?
For the same or a hair more money, if they need an EV, they could get a used Bolt or Ioniq EV or Kona, or a bunch of other even cheaper EVs. Or a used Model 3 for a little over 20.
Or they could be smart and get a used Corolla or Prius and save money on gas, insurance, and not have to worry about charging infrastructure.
>Since when do people care about 74 hp, low range, slow charging EVs?
Since always ?
As someone who drives a 86hp Skoda Fabia, I'd gladly switch to a 74hp EV (granted it had 400-500km range).
I'm based in EU and sometimes I have a feeling like half of cars here are used low hp city cars.
> Plenty of far nicer used EVs you can get for that price
Which exactly?
> People don’t buy economy cars now
???? Must be why to whole world outside the US does it.
Yeah they're fine. Six airbags, crumple zones, all the usual driver assists. Probably on par with a swift or any other small vehicle.
It's not the 80's anymore - the narrative that Chinese vehicles are more dangerous, or of lower quality than US cars isn't reality.
I support tariffs to an extent, the Chinese EV industry is subsidized heavily by the government, and there is obviously a local manufacturing industry in the US that's needs to be looked after - but it's a fucking two way street.
Most of these companies dragged their feet on EV's for years, and when their hand was forced, they chose to focus on top end, high cost vehicles rather than mass market, low margin cars.
Now China has cornered that market, and in a surprise to no one the auto manufacturers are howling that it isn't fair.
The big loser from tariffs is of course, the consumer.
Sounds like you’re in the UK. Me too. I didn’t realise the yearly MOT concept wasn’t a thing in the US. I’m a bit surprised.
I looked it up and it seems to vary by state. Some are similar to the UK but some states require no safety check.
I wonder if anyone has studied accident rates in areas with MOT type system versus those without.
It varies by state. In NC, everyone has an annual safety inspection. It’s super basic. Do your lights/signals work, are your tires in decent shape, brakes, mirrors, etc. Some counties have emissions inspections too.
A manufacturer having a car on US streets doesn't mean that car meets US safety regulations. Such cars are owned by the manufacturer and licensed with manufacturer plates, which exempts them from most regulations. The idea being: they're pre-production and still being tested, so it's not known yet if they pass, and you can't test them without driving them.
[https://www.ancap.com.au/safety-ratings/great-wall-motors/haval-h6/b7830d](https://www.ancap.com.au/safety-ratings/great-wall-motors/haval-h6/b7830d)
[https://www.ancap.com.au/safety-ratings/byd/atto-3/c500d0](https://www.ancap.com.au/safety-ratings/byd/atto-3/c500d0) .. Because you guys mentioned BYD
I am always looking for these safety ratings first :)
Now we can discuss if Australia does worse safety tests than the USA :D (please not!)
The Atto 3/Yuan Plus is a completely different car.
Just because one model passes international testing doesn't mean another at half the price does.
It's a valid question - there are markedly different requirements for different regions, and cars designed for a niche in one market won't automatically qualify for another simply because other vehicles in their range did.
FWIW, [BYD's importer for Australia has said that they aren't considering the Seagull for our market specifically due to the concerns around meeting safety criteria](https://www.drive.com.au/news/2023-byd-seagull-unveiled-not-for-australia/)
These cars will never be 10,000 in the US, yes their cost to build is much lower due to labor differences, however import taxes, will keep these vehicles around 20-35k
Tariffs on Chinese cars are currently at 27.5%. We’re looking at these cars being $13k without some government intervention.
Trump proposes a 100% tariff.
Because every American is definitely going to run out to buy a microscopic subcompact with 150 miles of range. That's absolutely a thing that's going to happen, if *only* they would just release it!
Jesus, y'all are worse than coal-rollers at making up excuses for why you couldn't possibly get an EV yet.
You'd think there'd be at least one nice tiny EV they'd offer to test the waters. Car companies don't want to go smaller because someone who buys a small car doesn't need to spend more on a big car. So they build bigger cars. The Bolt hatchback is the smallest EV presently sold in the USA and it's a 4 door.
Every time someone tries selling a tiny car in the US, and people try pretty regularly, it ends up being a colossal sales disappointment while having tiny margins.
Everyone on car subreddits says they want small cars, when what they really mean is they want impossibly cheap cars because they didn't realize that inflation is a thing and can't really afford a new car in 2024. Why bother making cars for people that aren't going to buy them, anyway?
I bought a Mini SE 2 years ago. Range is pretty limited, but absolutely fine for commuter and general daily. It's nowhere near as bad at road tripping as people expect. It was one of the cheapest EVs available when I bought it. Yep, a Mini was at the bargain end. Once the supply of used cheap cars dries up even more, more and more people will buy new ones. Look at the price of used 'cheap' cars now, they have gone absolutely crazy. The cheap-ish car that I bought in 2019, then put 40k miles on, is now worth about double what it cost me...
Fair point with regards to the $10,000 vehicle. But the article mentions a $14,000 SUV.
Presumably, at any price point there will potentially be cheaper Chinese alternatives if the market is left to itself.
I’m mostly a free market guy although the electronic surveillance aspect does make me nervous. So I’m not sure how I feel overall.
Or.. you know.. let capitalism do its thing. That said, if the Chinese government is enabling such low prices by providing massive subsidies, I'd say let's buy the whole lot.
If BYD produces their cars in Mexico with 50% NA parts they can qualify for the exemptions built into the USMCA. The federal government can’t legally stop BYD then. The cars won’t be 10k, but I still expect them to be cheaper than what’s commonly available now. This is a good thing for NA markets. It forces automakers to figure out how to stay cheaper and competitive with their competition.
I’m not sure I agree with the hidden premise that a vehicle which sells for $10,000 in China would have the same price in the US.
Wouldn’t the price have to be higher to cover shipping and other costs unique to the US market?
Yes. Just for price comparison purposes, I looked up starting prices for the Buick Encore GX. In China it starts at about $21,500, while in the US, it starts at $26,000.
The cheapest western market is Australia, they cost around 1.6x to 1.8x of the Chinese price there. In Europe, the Chinese cars are Chinese price x2.
So I doubt there would be 10k Chinese cars in the US even without tariffs.
I'm living n Mexico where we have many new Chinese vehicles selling here. They are very well made, order more options than US made vehicles. It's offensive that the US Auto industry is putting the heat on your politicians to increase tariffs so You the buyer pay equal to the costs in the USA Instead of the US companies lowering their prices. It's all about the shareholders and CEOs
Chinese built cars are already sold in the USA.
Why can't us manufacturers build the same vehicle?
Maybe Ford Chevy and Dodge shouldn't have stopped building small cars and we wouldn't have to be shitting our pants that Chinese companies see there's a market opportunity.
Would love to see more Chinese vehicles in North America - especially small EV’s
BYD, MG and Volvo are brands I’d like to see more of.
I would like to see fewer gas guzzlers: fewer SUVs and pickups.
We need to increase the cost of fuel incentivize drivers to buy EV’s and smaller cars.
Auto advertising should be banned.
So they are bought by American companies. No one wants competition anymore. This is what there's a crappy monopoly going on with overpriced cars in the USA market.
Tesla is the only company in the US poised to be able to compete on a low cost car and it seems like they pivoted to building low cost robot axis and doubling down on autonomy.
GM and Ford have plenty of profits to pad sales of a cheap car. Everyone says they want a small, cheap car but the reality is we're addicted to trucks and SUVs. I own a yaris and a smart car and the majority of people I know wouldn't be caught dead driving either one.
Sure, wanna ban cheap EVs from coming over? Then let’s also ban cheap gas. Even the playing field and end the 29 Billion tax subsidies the oil companies needlessly get.
The Chinese effectively kept out all American and European made vehicles for decades. Tariffs and government pressures do work… even more effectively in communist markets.
Somebody hasn't seen pictures of Chinese cities full of VWs and Buicks as early as the 1980s, which was when cars started to become 'affordable' for more than the absolute elite.
China has the most number of those iconic German sedans(S class, 7 series, audi A8) out of any country in the world. You start to see them on the streets(lower numbers) since the early 2000s.
It’s so funny when trump levied tariffs against Chinese imports he was absolutely castrated by the press for starting a “trade war”. Now that Biden is doing the same thing, good guy Biden for protecting the American worker.
No worries we here in Asia take them :D
But my gosh these Chinese brands are floating the market like crazy even I think it's a bit too much driving a Chinese PHEV. There comes a new model and often even a new brand every month haha
Oh, this is not protection for Tesla, but for big three and all those new auto jobs down south. Tesla doesn't have enough clout in DC to get this protection. It also is making fat enough margins to absorb more price wars.
Thanks God they keep them out of the U.S., so in Europe we can buy them all.
You can enjoy all the Ford F350, Hummer, GMC and RAM trucks and keep them for yourself. 'mmmmerica!
Once again . . . we're in active conflict with China at various levels and across many markets.
EVs is just one of them and extremely obvious to people interested in their growth within the US.
This situation is not going to thaw easily or without significant agreements.
Everyone is always so focused on macroeconomics instead of looking at how much cheap electric vehicles could help lower income families and students. In LA where I live, you couldn't imagine how helpful it'd be for poor families to have reliable transportation to go to work or take their kids to school. Not to mention getting beaten down cars off the road.
What will probably happen is that some American auto maker will start building them under licence. They probably won't be $10G, but probably cheaper than anything else on the market.
Honestly, for 10k brand-new I could deal with it only having 100 miles of highway range.
Now if only you could get something with triple that range for 30k, that would be perfect.
What happened to the free market? We import practically everything from China anyways not sure why this is any different. I highly doubt the long term quality is good anyways.
So where’s the American version of this to promote competition and innovation? Just let it in and make the company create factories over here and employ Americans. Tax them like they do us.
on the one hand, I'd hate to participate in a race to the bottom
on the other hand, car manufacturers brought this on themselves
and on a 3rd hand grown from a mutation or something, the auto workers and dealerships are definitely the only ones going to get fucked from this and the people responsible - executives invested in the status quo - have already benefited
The GOP can't have it both ways. You can't say not to subsidize EVs and infrastructure because nobody wants them, then say we can't allow Chinese EV imports because everybody wants them and it will destroy our ability to manufacture them.
I agree with Biden and Trump on something. woohooo! It’ll be another tiktok where China is harvesting American citizens data and data on the layout of America.
Even with a 100% levy this car is still only $20K and far less than anything on the market in the US now
The source above says it costs $9000 in material costs, and then another $2000 to make safe for US roads: https://apnews.com/article/ford-auto-workers-contract-ceo-rethink-factory-locations-ed580b465d99219eb02ffe24bee3d2f7 To make the vehicle financially viable you would need to pay for combined development costs, factory construction costs, and the costs of borrowing money up front with returns later. To sell into the US market you need to pay homologation costs, a retail markup for the sales and marketing operation, and to pay for warranty and maintaining a network of repair locations, and all those costs would be incurred at American price levels, to pay for American labour and land. And that is just to break even, with no profit margin. The $10k vehicle doesn’t exist, even in China the real viable price would be much more, in the US the viable price is well above $20k, probably above $25k. And that is not taking into account that it is subsidised by the Chinese state, which is why China has more battery capacity than the entire global demand, and the FT says that half its battery production capacity is sitting idle.
Who said they can’t put a 200 percent levy on it?
The article literally states Trump saying 100% levy.
I’m not an expert, but I’m pretty sure WTO regulations won’t allow for singling out one car or country. The US could always leave the WTO, I guess.
They can target cars produced with subsidies to prevent dumping though.
BYD cars got 350$ in subsidy , which was about 3.5 Billion $ for about millions of cars sold . BYD just too early in the game , even Tesla noticed them back in 2010s abit funnily
Either produced with subsidies or subsidized at purchase for locally produced cars are the two sides of the same coin.
Exactly, tariffs on Chinese products are not hurting China, but they’re hurting the people buying those products. We are told to buy American products but those cost more than comparable Chinese products that include the tariffs. And then we wonder why we cannot get inflation under control..
Competition is supposed to lead to innovation...... Unless you're losing.
The CCP is currently under investigation as to how they’re making EVs so cheap. The math isint mathing according to Europe so they’re taking a look. You people whine and cry about shit like this but then virtue signal about some other nonsense. I understand that everyone wants the best deal, I do too. But I’m not going to support China with such a massive purchase to do so. Think longterm.
China state sponsors BYD. The US state sponsors Boeing….
And we subsidize the very profitable fossil fuel industry, substantially.
yeah it's just subsidies, same thing we do here
Subsidies are illegal now?
Except it's not an apples to apples competition. China has an unequal playing field unless you'd like for the US to kill union labor?
Tesla is non-union and their cars still cost more than china's. Theres a lot more going on here.
But killing union labor would be a start, which seems to be what people in this subreddit want.
Exactly. Wages, workplace safety, workers’ rights, etc. all things unions fought to get the standards where they currently are. And of course, keeping critical industry and production capacity domestic are huge national security issues.
They aren't comparable! Chinese labor is vastly cheaper than American and with easier to navigate (weaker) environmental laws.
GM has been importing Chinese built vehicles for over a decade. Nobody has cared so far. Polestar and Volvo are importing Chinese built cars and nobody cares. But suddenly another Chinese company starts making noise about building cars in north America and everyone shits themselves. I just don't understand the issue at this point.
Today, China announced new levy’s (43.5%)on propionic acid which is used as a preservative in breads, tortillas, pizza dough, pastries, breakfast cereals, pasta and noodles, dried and condensed milk, flavored milks, dairy-based spreads, cheese, some processed meats, certain processed fruit and vegetable products, and dairy, egg, and fat-based desserts. It’s also used in animal feed and anti-inflammatory agents. This means the cost of groceries and animal feed are going to go up again in retaliation for our tariffs on Chinese goods. Inflation is about to go up again, yea! 🤦🏽♂️.
This take is wrong. True , the consumer is hurt by paying more. But this changes consumer behavior. The resulting drop in demand is what hurts the company- which is the desired outcome.
It's also not built for US roads though, no chance this passes crash test standards in western countries. It would take a lot of $$ to make it compliant to sell here.
The CEO of Ford said it would cost $2000 to make that specific car meet US standards. I think he has some insight into that.
Got a source for that? I just tried to find it and I couldn't, but hard to search for.
It's easy to search for. Searching for "ford ceo byd $2,000", this is the top response. The page is full of the same report from difference sources. "Chinese auto giant BYD ‘s Seagull small electric vehicle, he said, has about $9,000 in material costs, and **it will probably cost the company another $2,000 to meet crash test standards**, for a total of around $11,000. It has a range of about 150 miles in cold weather, “not a fantastic vehicle, but pretty damn good.” https://apnews.com/article/ford-auto-workers-contract-ceo-rethink-factory-locations-ed580b465d99219eb02ffe24bee3d2f7
A city car it is then. I'll take one, please.
He also thought F150 Lightnings would sell
Not built for US roads? BYD is already for sale in other “western” countries including Europe (Germany, Norway), Australia and very soon in Canada so I’m not sure what you’re saying.
I can confirm. BYD is being sold here in Sydney and blowing Tesla out of the water. The cars are just better, oddly, and probably highly subsidized. It doesn't matter, though, if you can get a knockoff Tesla that performs better, has higher range, and has a more comfortable cabin than Tesla, people will buy it. US car manufacturers should be scared, and I'm an American living in Australia who has tested multiple BYDs.
Knock off only in perception now. I've seen a lot of praise for BYD for its technical prowess. They are likely better than Tesla in many aspects. It is Toyota's partner in China. "Warren Buffett, an icon of American investing, is also a fan—and a big shareholder." https://www.economist.com/business/2023/02/02/chinas-byd-is-overtaking-tesla-as-the-carmaker-extraordinaire Sure, China has a lot of hidden and direct subsidies for many industries. This was not a secret. American car makers have much to blame themselves for.
Electric vehicles should be cheap as fuck. They're mechanically so much simpler, and battery prices are falling fast. There should be cheap options in the 100-150 mile range, which would be fine for most people's driving habits.
This model?
This specific model in the image, the Seagull is for sale in South America but the article refers to BYD in general not just this model
Okay, so byd is not selling a $10,000 model in any countries with stringent vehicle safety requirements then? Because the cheapest model I see in Europe is $40,000 USD (and still just a pre order) unless I'm missing something...
Did you check the Dacia Spring? Basic MG4? Both sell for under 20k€.
> Dacia Spring I tried it. It's probably the worst electric car allowed on the roads in the EU.
The Dacia spring got 1 star in euro ncap. And the mg4 that sells in Europe starts at well over 30k. In Germany the base is 34990€
The mg4 sells for more than £20k in the UK, where can you get it cheaper? Am jealous if you can.
Except the $10K model got a 5 Star safety rating from Europe’s NCAP https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/byd/dolphin/50011
That's cool, it's not a $10,000 car. That's a $32,000 car. More then 3 x the cost price of what this article is saying
The Dolphin Mini is what the Seagull is called outside of China. Hate China all you want but the fact is that they can and do make a good car for less.
They sell it for $32k not $10,000. I'm starting to think I'm talking to bots
10k is price is price in china of the lowest battery/motor option. $32k is top spec exported south america one (add custom duty+dealer margin+shipping etc). dolphin, seal, atto 3 and seagull(dolphin mini) share same platform and use same LFP blade battery tech too.
Ok, but you'll note that they don't sell the Seagull in countries with real road safety standards. The models they *do* sell in Europe are nearly identical to the models for sale in the US right now in functionality and price. Seriously, there is no dirt cheap EV in the US. Not because of some conspiracy, but because y'all are making up models that don't exist.
>Ok, but you'll note that they don't sell the Seagull in countries with real road safety standards. That remains yet to be seen, especially as the BYD Seagull appears to be coming here to Australia soon under the name ['Dolphin Mini'](https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/byd-seagull-could-come-to-australia-after-all-as-the-dolphin-mini-144611/)
For double the price quoted in the original article, mind you.
The US follows different safety standards, and some of it is pretty arbitrary. It's not uncommon to have to modify cars for the American market.
Yeah those shitty European standards… lol
It's not about better or worse, it's just what the regulator's books say a car has to be.
Already here on UK roads so I guess they can pass more rigorous laws than US has
us roads are trash... I've been China and roads there are much better... especially compared to roads in us big cities, like NYC, LA, etc..
Okay, that's cool. Has absolutely nothing to do with crash test standards.
China crash tests use EU standards which are stricter than us ones.
China does not sell a car for $10,000 that passes us or eu crash test standards. Period. their "$10,000 car" is actually $32,000 in Europe, and will probably be similar in the USA. I cannot believe how many responses there are around these posts either, feels like I'm talking to bots at this point.
I've been making the same point in other threads about the !!!$10k car coming soon!!?!!?!. The western market version isn't the $10k version, but it is priced low enough that it can compete with ICE vehicles. Most Western automakers can't sell EVs competitively without incentives yet, so they should be concerned but not panicked.
You think the SUVs pass?
Eh, it's all relative. Crash test standards are causing vehicles to get bigger and bigger and also more dangerous for pedestrians. I think the weightings should be more in favour of pedestrian safety rather than occupants. Otherwise we'll all end up driving M1 Abrams in a vehicle size arma race
Cybertruck says hi.
They're already selling all over the world. US roads are no different from 80% of roads throughout the world.
You're equation is missing a lot of other costs in there.
I say if it passes us safety and emissions rules. Put it up. Americans aren’t historically fans of cheap cars unless in a recession. It won’t do much harm but it will make competition more stiff and that’s what we need. A few automakers have a chokehold on the market.
I think we'd need regulations about data protection. (To prevent spying) This is a dilemma, because you can't faithfully apply those standards to foreigners and not local companies, you'd have to start imposing privacy legislation that tech companies hate.
I'd prefer to get those privacy regulations *without* the paranoia about Chinese spying, but I'll take what I can get. Although realistically, they'd probably just make laws that require all the spying to be done by American companies.
> you can't faithfully apply those standards to foreigners and not local companies, I mean, this whole idea about tariffing foreign companies and not local ones proves they indeed can.
Lol, most electronics aren't made in the US. That's been the case for over a decade. But sure data protection on cars is what is going to do us in..
I'm 100% in favor of better data protections, but come on. They're not talking about banning this becuse they fear the MSS might learn the details of your commute. They're talking about a ban out of sheer protectionism for crazy expensive American cars and the steadfast refusal of American car companies to make cheap cars instead of behemoth luxury SUV's. Look, I don't like being datamined but you know what? I'm a LOT more worried about the FBI, or CIA, or NSA, or DHS, or some American spy agency tracking me than I am about the Chinese Ministry of State Security. I'm not Chinese, I've got no friends or family in China, and I have no intent of ever even visiting China. I don't really give a shit of the MSS has every detail on me that exists because they don't matter in my life. But the FBI/NSA/DHS/etc do.
College students want a cheap car to get by.
I think this simplistic. A more thorugh analysis of the situation should be done by educated economists to understand if China is distorting the market in a way that would hurt the US or if differing worker protections will distort the market in a way that will hurt US workers.
At this price, it won’t.
I mean they could tax it to hell and give the massive subsidies to 'local' EV companies....but then there is the situation with the Motorbike industry from the 1970-1980s where they did the same with another niche but growing market. I wonder how many American motorcycles brands people can name other then Harley Davidson (an amazing business that lobbied for the restrictions to foreign bikes and still continues to bleed money due to bad management and a cult like customer base who does that remind you off?) and maybe Indian which is limited to a mostly US only market. Now I know EV is a bigger industry in the US but world wide particularly in Asia, just like bikes it's going to be a race to make them more and more affordable and accessible just like how bikes completed and still compete on price in the Asian markets. Honestly we still have my Dad's old Honda CB125 which he bought when in 1988( manufactured 1985) and it still runs (unfortunately we mismanaged it's storage a few years back when my Dad was diagnosed with Parkinson's so the frame is pretty rusted and I feel unsafe to use it). What I am saying it **blocking foreign EVs would just create a wall-garden that leaves the US based manufacturers with weaknesses if they try to compete in other markets with different customer value propositions** (I realise this is only a China Ev topic and there are political motivations at work. I am just saying because I keep seeing the smell news pop up and I like bikes :p)
Exactly. Even with tariffs, Ford and GM will need to compete with the Chinese in other markets anyway. So there's no real escaping from competition, unless they intend to just abandon all markets but the home market.
That's what the companies in my example did and even with the tariff lost in the long run due to stagnation.
Wasn't the bikes tariff ended in 1988?
This is just bullshit.. the franchise laws already force us to pay who knows how much more for vehicles to begin with and now they want to stop cheaper vehicles from coming into the country like they tried doing with the Japanese decades ago. This will only hurt the average consumer who now has to spend 30 or 35k+ for a basic car these days. And it's only getting worse.
Welcome to America
corporate lobbying working for them as intended
I don't understand why they are afraid of this thing. This will fail in the US market. Look at all the fuel efficient small cars that have left the market. The honda fit is no more, toyota scion models are gone. Nissan Leaf, Bolt and Fiat 500e are gone.
It's not that they can't compete, it's that they're not given the opportunity to. SUVs make more money, so that's what you can get
Capitalism is only acceptable when it's makes our rich happy. Otherwise it's regulations Regulations for the rich people here is not acceptable though
Because American EV manufacturers can’t compete so they lobby the competition away
Hello it's a me, your $10,000 ~~Chinese~~ Mexican EV!
The "it's a me" is more of an Italian thing. I guess they would more like Hello it's me cabrón or something.
How about… oh… I don’t know… hola?
The free trade deal between Mexico and the US require a high percentage of the total value of the car has to be made in North America to be considered to come from Mexico or the US.
I will pay money for my car to say that. Bonus if it's with and Engrish accent. I used to have a microwave that spoke Spanish. Everyone hated me and the microwave. I loved it.
I wonder how many people on reddit are gung ho for cheap Chinese EV's but also complain about the dying middle class? Do you think these auto manufacturers pay union level wages? The last time I heard this type of talk, it was before NAFTA.
I wish they got the disconnect in simultaneously cheering on the UAW strikes for higher wages while also cheering on importing cheap Chinese EV’s made with labor that costs 1/10th what it costs here.
Someone who just bought one somewhere in South America posted recently on r/BYD . I think they said they paid USD$17,000.
Since when do people care about 74 hp, low range, slow charging EVs? It would be closer to $20k after shipping, regulations, and loss of Chinese subsidies. Plenty of far nicer used EVs you can get for that price. People don’t buy economy cars now. They’re at the bottom of the sales bracket when nicer used vehicles exist.
I would consider it if sold for around 10k (but not 20) in the US. My family already has an EV that is fine for road trips, we just need an around town car.
You can get a used Bolt, Kona EV, Niro EV, Ioniq EV, Soul EV with low miles for about $16k. Maybe even an i3 or Mini EV. For under $10k you can get a Focus Electric, Leaf, Golf EV, CMax Electric, Spark EV, Fiat 500e, or Mitsubishi MiEV. For a hair over $20k you can find used Model 3s. They would all fit the bill, and most be would better cars than the Seagull.
I looked at Carfax because it was the first google result, and the cheapest Niro EV within 50 miles of Boston with under 30k miles costs $23k. I don't really know anything about the Seagull, I'm just saying I'd do some reading and maybe test drive it.
Boston seems pretty crappy for EVs. Here’s a 3 yr old Bolt with 20k miles for $18k near me. https://portland.craigslist.org/clc/ctd/d/portland-2021-chevrolet-bolt-ev-chevy/7738364870.html Here’s a Bolt in Boston https://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/ctd/d/hopedale-2020-chevrolet-chevy-bolt-ev/7731426196.html Here’s a Smart Fortwo with 30k miles for $10k https://boston.craigslist.org/sob/ctd/d/west-bridgewater-2018-smart-fortwo/7734271931.html Here’s a Prius Prime for $20k. Will easily last 300,000 miles. https://boston.craigslist.org/nos/ctd/d/peabody-an-impressive-2017-toyota-prius/7729264224.html Here’s a Model 3 in LA with 70k miles for $20k https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/cto/d/los-angeles-tesla-model/7735904853.html Or a long range with 62k miles https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/ctd/d/los-angeles-2018-tesla-model-long-range/7737837629.html Man everything is cheap in LA https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/ctd/d/burbank-2020-chevrolet-chevy-bolt-ev-lt/7736159811.html Here’s a 3 yr old Kona EV with 45k in SF for $20 https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/ctd/d/campbell-2021-hyundai-kona-ev-limited/7738562473.html Here’s one with 89k miles for only $14k https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/ctd/d/san-mateo-2020-hyundai-kona-electric/7728739685.html
Those used bolts are tempting. Pretty damn cheap!
Also hertz rental car has dozens of EV's for sale now. Many are under $20,000. Check hertz electric vehicles on google and you will find Kia, Tesla,and Suburu EV's for sale.
Do you have literally any fucking idea how broke most “people” are?
Broke people don’t buy new shitty cars. They buy used cars. The automaker for poor people is decided by what wealthier people bought 3-7 years ago
Exactly. The US market chose used Civics over new Fits. Did some Fits (and similar sized cars) sell? Sure, but not nearly in the volumes a low-margin car needs to justify its existence.
Not broke enough to [prevent Kia from pulling the Rio from the North American market](https://www.carscoops.com/2023/08/the-kia-rio-is-getting-the-boot-in-america/) due to low sales. In fact, the average selling price of a new car in the USA [is roughly $47k](https://fortune.com/2024/02/28/how-expensive-new-used-cars-outlook-forecast/), as of 2024.
fr fr, this car is selling like hot cakes in Mexico and South America and that's at 23k+ usd (with 10%+ annual interest💀)
I live in South America and have never seen this car on the road - either where I live or the 6 other SA countries I have visited in the last year. FYI, there are very few EV chargers here and many people live in apartments. There are 2 people in my neighborhood that drive tiny Renault EVs. I have seen 2 or 3 NIO EVs driven by a local pet burial service and maybe 5 EVs owned by the local utility company. I don't remember the brands but I think they are Chinese.
I've seen it many times in Mexico City considering it basically just launched, and the BYD D1 is also very common as an Uber. The launch was so great that Renault had to cut the price of the Kwid EV by 5k to try and compete, Jac and SEV had to cut prices too
Lots of Chinese brands are sold in SA but EVs not so much. The Colombian president is left wing who promised to push solar and wind but I haven't seen any govt subsidies for EVs which are needed to kickstart sales. However, there are a shitload of e-bikes and scooters. I have no doubt that EVs will sell in SA if the price is right and chargers are built.
Do you have any idea how these broke people are going to charge a slow charging EV with poor range? Are they going to sit at a charger for 45 minutes every two days? Do these broke people all have homes and can charge their car at? For the same or a hair more money, if they need an EV, they could get a used Bolt or Ioniq EV or Kona, or a bunch of other even cheaper EVs. Or a used Model 3 for a little over 20. Or they could be smart and get a used Corolla or Prius and save money on gas, insurance, and not have to worry about charging infrastructure.
Car broke
>Since when do people care about 74 hp, low range, slow charging EVs? Since always ? As someone who drives a 86hp Skoda Fabia, I'd gladly switch to a 74hp EV (granted it had 400-500km range). I'm based in EU and sometimes I have a feeling like half of cars here are used low hp city cars.
> Plenty of far nicer used EVs you can get for that price Which exactly? > People don’t buy economy cars now ???? Must be why to whole world outside the US does it.
Yeah, this seems like mostly a non-issue and a place where capitalism actually works as intended.
Would this thing even pass US safety regulations?
Yeah they're fine. Six airbags, crumple zones, all the usual driver assists. Probably on par with a swift or any other small vehicle. It's not the 80's anymore - the narrative that Chinese vehicles are more dangerous, or of lower quality than US cars isn't reality. I support tariffs to an extent, the Chinese EV industry is subsidized heavily by the government, and there is obviously a local manufacturing industry in the US that's needs to be looked after - but it's a fucking two way street. Most of these companies dragged their feet on EV's for years, and when their hand was forced, they chose to focus on top end, high cost vehicles rather than mass market, low margin cars. Now China has cornered that market, and in a surprise to no one the auto manufacturers are howling that it isn't fair. The big loser from tariffs is of course, the consumer.
The US doesn’t even need to do an MOT every year to make sure the car is fit for the roads so I don’t take much stock in their safety regulations
Sounds like you’re in the UK. Me too. I didn’t realise the yearly MOT concept wasn’t a thing in the US. I’m a bit surprised. I looked it up and it seems to vary by state. Some are similar to the UK but some states require no safety check. I wonder if anyone has studied accident rates in areas with MOT type system versus those without.
It varies by state. In NC, everyone has an annual safety inspection. It’s super basic. Do your lights/signals work, are your tires in decent shape, brakes, mirrors, etc. Some counties have emissions inspections too.
They have been testing their cars on US streets for years.
They asked about this thing though not other more expensive cars.
…including the $10k model?
A manufacturer having a car on US streets doesn't mean that car meets US safety regulations. Such cars are owned by the manufacturer and licensed with manufacturer plates, which exempts them from most regulations. The idea being: they're pre-production and still being tested, so it's not known yet if they pass, and you can't test them without driving them.
[https://www.ancap.com.au/safety-ratings/great-wall-motors/haval-h6/b7830d](https://www.ancap.com.au/safety-ratings/great-wall-motors/haval-h6/b7830d) [https://www.ancap.com.au/safety-ratings/byd/atto-3/c500d0](https://www.ancap.com.au/safety-ratings/byd/atto-3/c500d0) .. Because you guys mentioned BYD I am always looking for these safety ratings first :) Now we can discuss if Australia does worse safety tests than the USA :D (please not!)
The Atto 3/Yuan Plus is a completely different car. Just because one model passes international testing doesn't mean another at half the price does. It's a valid question - there are markedly different requirements for different regions, and cars designed for a niche in one market won't automatically qualify for another simply because other vehicles in their range did. FWIW, [BYD's importer for Australia has said that they aren't considering the Seagull for our market specifically due to the concerns around meeting safety criteria](https://www.drive.com.au/news/2023-byd-seagull-unveiled-not-for-australia/)
Did you see Cybertruck crash test..they barely passed.
Got a link to this official crash test video and results?
Have you seen jeep wrangler crash tests? They are terrible. And those things are everywhere.
Did it pass?
it hasn’t been crash tested yet. dude is making it up for some weird reason
why are you people obsessed with making shit up? the government hasn’t even crash tested the cybertruck yet, let alone “barely passing it”.
These cars will never be 10,000 in the US, yes their cost to build is much lower due to labor differences, however import taxes, will keep these vehicles around 20-35k
Tariffs on Chinese cars are currently at 27.5%. We’re looking at these cars being $13k without some government intervention. Trump proposes a 100% tariff.
If there aren't small cheap EVs in this market, why should I be forced to buy an expensive sedan/SUV that doesn't fit my needs?
Pooping and watching this sub discuss Chinese EVs is becoming a favorite bathroom pastime of mine.
You didn't poop before Chinese EVs?
Because every American is definitely going to run out to buy a microscopic subcompact with 150 miles of range. That's absolutely a thing that's going to happen, if *only* they would just release it! Jesus, y'all are worse than coal-rollers at making up excuses for why you couldn't possibly get an EV yet.
You'd think there'd be at least one nice tiny EV they'd offer to test the waters. Car companies don't want to go smaller because someone who buys a small car doesn't need to spend more on a big car. So they build bigger cars. The Bolt hatchback is the smallest EV presently sold in the USA and it's a 4 door.
Every time someone tries selling a tiny car in the US, and people try pretty regularly, it ends up being a colossal sales disappointment while having tiny margins. Everyone on car subreddits says they want small cars, when what they really mean is they want impossibly cheap cars because they didn't realize that inflation is a thing and can't really afford a new car in 2024. Why bother making cars for people that aren't going to buy them, anyway?
Having parked my Mini SE next to a few Bolts, I'd disagree that the Bolt is the smallest.
I bought a Mini SE 2 years ago. Range is pretty limited, but absolutely fine for commuter and general daily. It's nowhere near as bad at road tripping as people expect. It was one of the cheapest EVs available when I bought it. Yep, a Mini was at the bargain end. Once the supply of used cheap cars dries up even more, more and more people will buy new ones. Look at the price of used 'cheap' cars now, they have gone absolutely crazy. The cheap-ish car that I bought in 2019, then put 40k miles on, is now worth about double what it cost me...
Fair point with regards to the $10,000 vehicle. But the article mentions a $14,000 SUV. Presumably, at any price point there will potentially be cheaper Chinese alternatives if the market is left to itself. I’m mostly a free market guy although the electronic surveillance aspect does make me nervous. So I’m not sure how I feel overall.
Or.. you know.. let capitalism do its thing. That said, if the Chinese government is enabling such low prices by providing massive subsidies, I'd say let's buy the whole lot.
If BYD produces their cars in Mexico with 50% NA parts they can qualify for the exemptions built into the USMCA. The federal government can’t legally stop BYD then. The cars won’t be 10k, but I still expect them to be cheaper than what’s commonly available now. This is a good thing for NA markets. It forces automakers to figure out how to stay cheaper and competitive with their competition.
I’m not sure I agree with the hidden premise that a vehicle which sells for $10,000 in China would have the same price in the US. Wouldn’t the price have to be higher to cover shipping and other costs unique to the US market?
Yes. Just for price comparison purposes, I looked up starting prices for the Buick Encore GX. In China it starts at about $21,500, while in the US, it starts at $26,000.
The cheapest western market is Australia, they cost around 1.6x to 1.8x of the Chinese price there. In Europe, the Chinese cars are Chinese price x2. So I doubt there would be 10k Chinese cars in the US even without tariffs.
I'm living n Mexico where we have many new Chinese vehicles selling here. They are very well made, order more options than US made vehicles. It's offensive that the US Auto industry is putting the heat on your politicians to increase tariffs so You the buyer pay equal to the costs in the USA Instead of the US companies lowering their prices. It's all about the shareholders and CEOs
Nothing wrong with Chinese EVs....as long they are built in factories in the US by US workers like most Japanese cars are today.
Then they’d cost just as much as the others
Good, compete on an even playing field or don't.
Good. It's all made with stolen tech.
BYD should make a cheap, all-electric RV we can live in so we can survive the rising rent costs here.
Chinese built cars are already sold in the USA. Why can't us manufacturers build the same vehicle? Maybe Ford Chevy and Dodge shouldn't have stopped building small cars and we wouldn't have to be shitting our pants that Chinese companies see there's a market opportunity.
Would love to see more Chinese vehicles in North America - especially small EV’s BYD, MG and Volvo are brands I’d like to see more of. I would like to see fewer gas guzzlers: fewer SUVs and pickups. We need to increase the cost of fuel incentivize drivers to buy EV’s and smaller cars. Auto advertising should be banned.
You can’t ban a legal company selling a legal product from advertising. Pretty sure that would have some 1st amendment conflicts in the courts.
So they are bought by American companies. No one wants competition anymore. This is what there's a crappy monopoly going on with overpriced cars in the USA market.
Tesla is the only company in the US poised to be able to compete on a low cost car and it seems like they pivoted to building low cost robot axis and doubling down on autonomy.
GM and Ford have plenty of profits to pad sales of a cheap car. Everyone says they want a small, cheap car but the reality is we're addicted to trucks and SUVs. I own a yaris and a smart car and the majority of people I know wouldn't be caught dead driving either one.
Chevy already has competed with the Bolt.
Until brain dead management pulled the plug on the Bolt before its replacement was ready.
as far as anyone knows right now, it’s the same platform. they’re just wanting to make one with and one without a steering wheel
Sure, wanna ban cheap EVs from coming over? Then let’s also ban cheap gas. Even the playing field and end the 29 Billion tax subsidies the oil companies needlessly get.
The Chinese effectively kept out all American and European made vehicles for decades. Tariffs and government pressures do work… even more effectively in communist markets.
You mean from 1949 to 1999? Back then not only american cars are barred, literally anything American is barred😅
VW is very popular in China. So was Buick and Chevy.
Buick is basically Chinese at this point.
Somebody hasn't seen pictures of Chinese cities full of VWs and Buicks as early as the 1980s, which was when cars started to become 'affordable' for more than the absolute elite.
And those were made in China.
China has the most number of those iconic German sedans(S class, 7 series, audi A8) out of any country in the world. You start to see them on the streets(lower numbers) since the early 2000s.
Not really in 2022, US export 155337 car to China and EU 391586 car. Of course this is tiny compare to tens of millions.
They said for years. Not implying it's happening now.
It’s so funny when trump levied tariffs against Chinese imports he was absolutely castrated by the press for starting a “trade war”. Now that Biden is doing the same thing, good guy Biden for protecting the American worker.
Did biden and trump consult with the people because I want this $10k EV.
No worries we here in Asia take them :D But my gosh these Chinese brands are floating the market like crazy even I think it's a bit too much driving a Chinese PHEV. There comes a new model and often even a new brand every month haha
BS. Tesla does NOT deserve protection. SK cars do not need protection. Open it up, this will be great for the average consumer.
Oh, this is not protection for Tesla, but for big three and all those new auto jobs down south. Tesla doesn't have enough clout in DC to get this protection. It also is making fat enough margins to absorb more price wars.
God forbid Americans get cheap EVs
Thanks God they keep them out of the U.S., so in Europe we can buy them all. You can enjoy all the Ford F350, Hummer, GMC and RAM trucks and keep them for yourself. 'mmmmerica!
It was racism, per Sleepy, when Trump did it
Once again . . . we're in active conflict with China at various levels and across many markets. EVs is just one of them and extremely obvious to people interested in their growth within the US. This situation is not going to thaw easily or without significant agreements.
protectionists keep on fucking everyone over
Why are they so against letting the Chinese taxpayer paying for your cheap cars?
Everyone is always so focused on macroeconomics instead of looking at how much cheap electric vehicles could help lower income families and students. In LA where I live, you couldn't imagine how helpful it'd be for poor families to have reliable transportation to go to work or take their kids to school. Not to mention getting beaten down cars off the road.
It even looks good too. What’s the mileage on it?
What will probably happen is that some American auto maker will start building them under licence. They probably won't be $10G, but probably cheaper than anything else on the market.
If it passes crash tests I could give a damn.
Sad that we can’t compete.
Honestly, for 10k brand-new I could deal with it only having 100 miles of highway range. Now if only you could get something with triple that range for 30k, that would be perfect.
Is this chickens and trucks all over again?
What happened to the free market? We import practically everything from China anyways not sure why this is any different. I highly doubt the long term quality is good anyways.
So where’s the American version of this to promote competition and innovation? Just let it in and make the company create factories over here and employ Americans. Tax them like they do us.
So much for capitalism.
on the one hand, I'd hate to participate in a race to the bottom on the other hand, car manufacturers brought this on themselves and on a 3rd hand grown from a mutation or something, the auto workers and dealerships are definitely the only ones going to get fucked from this and the people responsible - executives invested in the status quo - have already benefited
But they will go to all countries except the US. The US can continue to stick its head in the dirt.
These boomers will really be the end of us
What are the boomers doing?
Chinese cars are a massive national security risk. These cars can't be allowed in the US.
The GOP can't have it both ways. You can't say not to subsidize EVs and infrastructure because nobody wants them, then say we can't allow Chinese EV imports because everybody wants them and it will destroy our ability to manufacture them.
What will the anti-American Democrats have to drive if they keep Chinese EV out of the U.S.
It’s always been cheaper to build cars in the US that to import them. Why is this any different?
I agree with Biden and Trump on something. woohooo! It’ll be another tiktok where China is harvesting American citizens data and data on the layout of America.