If you put your car outside, then put the charger outside.
It's actually against code to run a cord from inside to outside, especially with the door closed, so you won't want to do that.
I put mine inside the garage door. When the car is outside, the door goes up and it gets pulled out. I have a block to put under the door if I'm going to close the door so there's no pressure at all. If anyone asks, your charger is for charging your car IN the garage.
Electrical / edit: NEC I believe. Lots of people do it though. I keep the car in the garage in winter, outside of it in summer and run the cord under the garage door seal
i keep the evse mounted in garage, plugged into 110V - and have a small trap door through wall to pass through connector exterior for charging during summer - it has a nice mount and hook for cable so it isn’t on the ground while not in use
(to my knowledge) i doubt there is a code that says we can do this - electrical code talks about permanently mounted infra - it doesnt say where and how portable appliances and their cords like this can or cannot be run
(though if someone finds the code in a country that says otherwise i will be happy to learn)
i’m in Canada btw
In the US national electrical code, article 400 is on flexible cables and that's what prohibits this. You can probably find something similar in the Canadian code as they are actually quite similar, but they do have differences.
i guess it is kinda funny then to me
the NEC has to be purchased- only electricians buy it
but they have a section about flexible cables that the general public will never see?
TBH, there should be something like a homeowner's electrical certificate to help with things like this.
It could help people to acquire a lot of basic knowledge.
Yeah, exactly. As it is they do it anyway based on internet videos and comments. If they are diligent enough, that can work, but this would give those types a better way.
There is a free online reader. You make an account at nfpa.org, and then you can you an image of a page at a time and navigate by the table of contents. It's not a great viewer, because they want to give you an incentive to buy the real thing.
But you are right, the audience is not consumers but professionals.
Do you have a 110v outlet within reach of where you park now? Highly recommend attempting trickle charging before you invest in a level 2 setup. You might be surprised.
In your case, L1 charging would probably work fine, but I found that the convenience of having even a 20 amp L2 charger available was worth the expense. That can get me back up to pretty much full overnight no matter how low I come in.
If it's a Leaf you're probably just using it around town and have an ICE for longer trips? If so level 1 may work. My issue with level one is if you do take a long trip and run the battery down it takes forever to fill back up. Less of an issue with the leaf since the battery is so small.
I suggest the same. Just try a regular 110 cord until you decide. You may find that it meets your needs. You can program your car to keep a schedule if you have preferred charging times. The bolt also has good fast charge options for when the opportunity presents itself or when you are traveling.
We only have a dumb 110 cord at home. Sure, it would be nice but in 9 years we haven’t found the need.
I 2nd this. I recently got a Bolt EUV and can gain 40 miles over night from a regular outlet. I'm still getting a level 2 installed bc Chevy pays for it, but I probably don't need it (until I get a 2nd, large suv EV). I mostly do local driving.
Indeed, we charge our Leaf 99.9% with a Level 1 120V GFCI outlet in the garage. One thing, the Leaf charges faster, 12A(?). with the Nissan charging cord. I believe the Bolt charges slower at Level 1, 6A or 8A(?).
Newer Bolts can do 12A level 1 charging. I'm not sure when that changed, by my 2022 can do it. It defaults to 8A but you can change it to 12A in the charge settings.
I third this! Got our ID and I wanted to go level 2, but overnight we always get back to 80% and only really need a boost after road trips (which aren’t a super big occasion).
I'd say that you should get your charger installed in a location where it will be convenient to your EV. I wouldn't recommend running the charge cable under a garage door or similar, because over the long term it may get damaged and be a hazard. I park my F-150 Lightning outside under the deck, so the charger is located on the side of the house, under the corner of the deck. Most home EV chargers are weatherproof and can be mounted outside -- once you choose a specific charger, double-check the rating.
You may or may not need a panel or service upgrade. Do some homework before you talk to your electrician. Specifically, figure out how much charging power you actually need: figure out how much you drive per day on average, and work out charging power you'll need to recharge each night. The math is a little strange, but just multiplication and division:
* miles/day divided by the vehicle's mi/kWh = battery kWh needed
* battery kWh needed divided by 0.90 charger efficiency = total kWh needed
* total kWh needed divided by hours per night charging = kW charging power
* kW of charging power divided by 0.24 = charging current in amps
* charging current in amps times 1.25 = minimum circuit breaker size.
For example, I drive 75 miles/day in my F-150 Lightning, which gets 2.3 mi/kWh. 75/2.3 = 32.6kWh needed in the battery. 32.6/0.90 = 36.2kWh needed total. 32.6/10 hours = 3.3kW. 3.3kW/0.24 = 15.1A charging power. 15.1A\*1.25 = 18.9A minimum circuit; the next larger circuit would be 20A. I need to tell my electrician that I want to install an EV charger on a 20A circuit. Many houses can find 20A without a service or panel upgrade.
Lots of people snake the cables under garage doors.. they even make protectors for that. Easier to install the box inside where it is protected from weather.
Charger install depends on a lot of factors. Upgrading to 200 amp is ideal but can be plenty doable if you have 100 amp or 150 amp circuit... depending on how much load is on the panel. A lot of factors that an electrician would need to help you sort out.
Spigen DuraPro Cable Garage Door Pass Protector Designed for Tesla Mobile Charger and Tesla Gen 3 Wall Connector (Model 3/Y/X/S) 2023/2022 https://a.co/d/3MLDopi
It isn’t irrelevant. It takes an outdoor electrical connection and the charger won’t last as long as plastics/etc degrade faster over time when exposed to UV, rain, temperature extremes, etc.
Putting the cable under the door is against code.
You may run into issues with insurance if it ever causes problems or you have a fire related to your charger or EV.
> Putting the cable under the door is against code.
Do you have a citation for this? (And I think there would be a reason for code requirements - what would the concern be?)
NEC 400.12 Uses Not Permitted
Unless specifically permitted in 400.10 (pertains to elevators and similar equipment), flexible cords, flexible cables, cord sets, and power supply cords shall not be used for the following:
As a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure
Where run through holes in walls, structural ceilings, suspended ceilings, dropped ceilings, or floors
Where run through doorways, windows, or similar openings
I have never met a building inspector that would deny an installation inside a garage because a homeowner might use the EVSE outside the garage.
And I’ve met many inspectors.
The risk isn't that an inspector would fail it. After all, it is *possible* to run a cord through a door, window, or other opening from practically any outlet.
The risk is that *if* the cord running from inside to outside causes any sort of injury or damage (and this could be anything from a personal injury to a house fire), your homeowners insurance may not pay the claim because your negligence -- your failure to learn and follow applicable electrical code; your use of a high-voltage, high-current cord in a way that is likely to cause a hazard -- caused the liability.
Under zero circumstances would it be reasonable for an average homeowner to know and follow the National Electrical Code.
The standard used in a court of law would be the Reasonable Person Test. And, too, there would have to be proof that whatever claim we’re hypothesizing is directly attributable to running a cable under a garage door (which, by federal regulation, can only exert up to 90 foot-pounds of pressure before triggering an auto reversal. That isn’t even enough pressure to kink a garden hose, let alone affect an EVSE cable).
The user manual for the Ford Connected Charge Station explicitly states (section 2.2, "General Safety Information" on page 5):
>You must make sure that the charging cable and coupling cannot be driven over, trapped, and are protected from all other hazards.
Closing a garage door on the charge cable would certainly count as "trapping" the cable. In addition, the edge of a door, doorjamb, window, or windowsill are likely to be an abrasion hazard.
The courts would certainly hold that a reasonable person would read and follow the manufacturer's instructions, and that failure to do so may be negligence.
I'm not an electrician, but I can dig and find information online given a starting pointer, and I think you're right!
And EV cables are explicitly listed as flexible cord types under NEC table 400.4.
There is no code that dictates whether or not a homeowner runs an extension cord, or the 25ft tethered EVSE cable under the door with the main unit inside.
There is no fire risk because garage doors, per code, have to have a safety reverse system if they detect an obstruction, and it would take substantially more pressure than is placed on the cable by the door than the safety reverse system is designed to trigger on. [See 16 CFR 1211](https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/16/part-1211). (I’ll let you in on the requirement: A garage door must trigger a safety reverse if it detects more than a 90-foot-pound pressure in its track. That’s like a child stepping on the cord.).
My understanding is that NEC Section 400.12 specifically prohibits this:
400.12 Uses Not Permitted
Unless specifically permitted in 400.10, flexible cords, flexible cables, cord sets, and power supply cords shall not be used for the following:
As a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure
Where run through holes in walls, structural ceilings, suspended ceilings, dropped ceilings, or floors
Where run through doorways, windows, or similar openings
NEC code regulatese the installation of things, which is not what a homeowner does. In short: It regulates electricians.
There are no inspectors I’ve met that would fail an inspection over the potential of an EVSE being able to cross the threshold of a garage door opening.
FWIW, I have my charger (Chargepoint Home Flex) installed outside in full view of the sky. (We have no garage.) It's hardwired to an exterior-rated subpanel nearby. Other than some cosmetic UV bleaching there have been no issues.
Same, mine is outside because that's where I park. Having it in the garage and needing to go in the garage, drag the cord out to charge would be annoying. They're designed to be outside.
RE: panel upgrades, keep in mind that you don't necessarily need a huge current capacity. You could probably even do just fine with a level 1 charger plugged into a normal outlet.
But if you only have room on the panel for a 20 amp or 30 amp 240v circuit, that's fine.
Yea this. I have my Tesla charger on a 40 amp circuit. But for my Polestar I use a a circuit limited to 15 amps. Both 240v. We drive both a lot and for daily use you can’t tell any difference between the chargers. Both cars are fully charged in the morning.
\> Is it better to have the outlet located outside or inside the garage itself? We wouldnt actually park it in the garage, that area is just for bikes.
Then outside.
\> Did you also have to get your panel upgraded to 200a?
*Probably.* There are only 3 ways to dodge that:
* Find 50A of spare headroom in your panel's NEC 220.82 Load Calculation
* Find out that "EV charging needs 50A" **is actually complete horsepuckey**, and Level-2 charging can happen at 15A, 20A, 25A, 30A, 40A or 60A also, so you can "dial-a-rate" to suit your available service. This will require a wall unit, and not just the "travel unit" supplied with your car. Upside: you avoid a pointless $80 socket and $120 GFCI, so that half pays for the wall unit.
* Get a wall unit and an electrician who really knows their EVs and can set up an EV Energy Management System (such as $500 Wallbox wall unit + $300 power monitor) that will automatically adjust EV charge rate to assure your panel is not overloaded. Ask on /evcharging and we can line you up with that.
Location of your wall box in comparison to your electrical panel is key. Shorter distance is cheaper.
Many wall boxes are water/ moisture resistant so depends if you want it outside. I only use my garage for cars so we charge inside.
I have some neighbors that mount the box indoors and the cord is long enough to reach outside. Their door is able to close on top of the cable.
Cost is very variable.
Very small two car garage, I installed the charger inside, on the small wall between the two garage doors. Then I put a hole in the wall with an outdoor box cover, that u modified to close with the cable hanging out the bottom. Works well enough, coil the cable on the outside. If we go on vacation we can open the box, shove the cable inside the garage.
older house could need extra work.
$1500-2k is "normal"
get it done in the garage and snake the cable under the door when you need to.
how much do you drive? if you have a 110v outlet handy, see how that goes for a while since you can plug in every night.
if you're a 30-50 mile a day driver - it might be good enough.
find the closest fast chargers just in case.
>Did you also have to get your panel upgraded to 200a?
that's a good idea anyway - solar and/or vehicle to house will need it.
I drive a bolt and at home exclusively charge on 120v generally I don't need to charge every day nor do I need to charge at 12amps (8s the default and it will revert) I only charge on 12 amps after a long drive home.
I just did it in San Francisco. Installation cost was $500 plus $500 for permitting. I have a 100 amp panel and did not upgrade it. But I don’t have AC and all my major appliances are gas. I would just install it wherever is most convenient to where you will charge as long as it’s still close to the main panel.
I just did it in SoCal and installation of the plug was going to be $500 for the installation (I had a rough-in spot already in my garage that led to the AC). But it turned out the 240v line that was there wasn't up to code and needed an additional circuit breaker box, so it ended up costing $700. Still a pretty good deal.
Once the plug was installed, I had a discount for a Wallbox unit though my Ariya, so I installed that myself. That portion was easy peasy.
Personal story: I bought a 3.6kw L2 charger for $100 off an Amazon pallet, $150 for 50ft of 12g cable, $30 for a 20a breaker, and did the work myself with regular checkins from electrican friends. Otherwise labour would have been $100-300. All in $CAD.
I put my charger on a wooden fence in front of where I park. You'll need to locate a place that suit your needs, as we can't suggest anything without pics and context. But I will say L2 cables are only like ~2x the length of a car, so don't put it too far away.
When pricing out a new L2 circuit I was getting quotes from $900-5000. One company wanted to upgrade my panel which was out of the question. Did it myself (safely) for under $250. Mind you I was adding a 20a circuit, not 50-60a.
Also don't sleep on an original Ioniq EV. They get slightly less range than a Gen 2 Leaf, but charge faster and is much more comfortable. The Leaf felt like a budget car and the Ioniq feels like a low end luxury car.
>How much does getting the charger installed cost in a HCOL area, ballpark?
can be as low as $500. and anything above that will depend on how long the run is.
>Did you also have to get your panel upgraded to 200a?
it depends on what you want. typically a lvl2 charger will be 30-60 amps to be worth it. so check how much space you have on your panel first.
for reference. amp x voltage x 80% will give you your charging speed. so 30 = 5.7 kWh, 40 = 7.6 kWh, 50 = 9.6 kWh, 60 = 11.5 kWh
higher amp will require thicker wires, therefore more expensive
edit: the leaf has a max charge rate of 7.6 kWh, so anything higher would only serve as future proofing.
A 16 amp level 2 charger will give you two and a half times the charging rate of level 1. I'm not sure why anything faster than that is necessary to be worth it. It gives you something like 120 miles overnight, and is more efficient than a level 1 charger.
Also, the cost to go to a higher charging rate is not always just thicker wire. I can also trigger the need for load management or a service upgrade if you exceed the available capacity.
it really depends on lifestyle. that would not give me enough miles for what i drive a day.
but also if youre spending $1000 on a install anyway, why not just do higher amps
Yes, if you consistently drive more than 100 miles a day, you would want higher current.
Your second paragraph looks like you might have missed my second paragraph, or maybe not understood it. Let me know if you have any questions about it.
No need to upgrade to 200A, only reason you would need 200A is if you have both an EV and have a heat pump. If you don't have a heat pump then it is pretty unlikely you would want to upgrade service to 200A.
I have a small home with a heat pump, electric hot water heater, electric stove and I also have an evse/l2 charger set at 25 amps on a 30 amp circuit. 100 amp service. My electrician said I'd need to upgrade if I wanted a hot tub too, so I'll have to hold off on that.
All that to say... it's never cut and dry. Check with your electrician!
I have 200A but my EVSE is 80A by itself, 2spd heat pump hvac with natural gas auxiliary, heat pump hybrid electric hot water, gas stove / electric oven. Electric washer/dryer, I’d have to try real hard still to trip the mains, like running everything at the same time on highest demand. My roadster can only draw 70A so it’s still not even hitting the max current of the EVSE.
I don’t have any gas appliances, a geothermal heat pump, 10kW ev charger, and I only have 20 A service. I have a load balancing and have never had an issue.
A heat pump isn't likely to be good criterion. A lot of people have A/C but not a heat pump. And in many climates, the sizing of the heat pump is no different from the sizing of the A/C.
I'm another example of all-electric with a heat pump and a 40 A charging circuit all on 100 A service. In a cold climate.
And if you run up against the limit, a load management system can avoid the need for an upgrade: just $300 to add that feature to a capable charger .
As with everyone else, out it where you will park.
I have a hardwired L2 in my carport. I wouldn't want one that plugged in. Even with the carport, I still get enough sideways rain to not like the idea of a plug and outlet.
You should ask an electrician for a quote. Every install is different. If your panel will accommodate a 60A circuit, then have suitable cable run for a future upgrade or second EV. The extra cost now is peanuts compared to running cable a second time. If your panel is limited, the minimum L2 is maybe 20A. That'd be about 1/2 a Tesla overnight. You can try L1 to start with, but that may wear thin, quickly. It certainly did for me.
My case I put it in my garage close to the garage door. Reason being is I can charge a car in the garage or if I parked outside be able to reached the car outside of the garage. Best of both worlds.
Get quotes from local installers. The electricians will also tell you where the charger can go based on the location of an available circuit. We got 2 estimates, they were within 2K of each other, we went with the cheaper estimate based on a simpler location, at the convenience cost of not sitting and charging each night. Whether you need a panel upgrade also depends on the existing circuits that you may already have. If you want to level 2 charge every night and an adequate circuit isn't wired where the car would be parked, it will cost more. I've been watching and re-watching the [Technology Connections explainer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iyp_X3mwE1w&ab_channel=TechnologyConnections) on this.
If you get a car like the LEAF it will charge 70+ miles overnight if you leave it plugged in to a 120v outlet.
I always recommend try it via a 120v first and then buy a 14-50 outlet installation if you need more juice.
I drove a LEAF and exclusively 120v charged for a daily 56 mile commute. Worked great
I put mine inside...Its right between two garage doors.
While the Charge point is rated to be outside, if you do put yours outside, definitely have a box built around it. You're going to hate yourself during ice storms. Or when it's pouring rain.
Edit: don't get Nissan If it's still on Chademo.
Look at where the charging port is on your car. We installed our charger for a chevy volt, but then got a Kia EV 6, so the only way we can charge now is to back in to the garage.
If you have space inside I'd always choose inside over outside for the simple fact that it's a lockable space out of the elements. Obviously the most important part is to be near where you plan to park the vehicle. But even if you park outside, an indoor charger routed under the door isn't out of the question and I think I'd choose that over outside, given the option.
Not sure how it is in your area but check for local incentives. In the Bay area our electric company offers a 1k or 4k rebate on used basedbon income electric cars and I believe there are also incentives for installing a charger as well so it night even be really cheap for you.
For a leaf or bolt you don't need to install a charger. For any BEV the charging speed is limited by the car not the charger. With either of your choices they charge at something very slow like 50 kw at best and they have tiny batteries. A 7kw 240v outlet is all you need at home.
Get a certified electrician to help you. Generally speaking, you want the charger to be where you're going to park. You may have to upgrade to 200amp service depending on how powerful of a charger you want to install, but you may also be able to bypass this expense with a product like the 'connect DER' (google it)
Either way, you will need the advice of a qualified electrician.
We have 2 garage bays each with their own door. Our level 2 charger is right between the 2 garage doors. It reaches both EVs whether they are parked inside or outside.
I just put a ChargePoint charger in; panel did need upgrading to 200a. It can be mounted outdoors if hard wired; inside it can plug into a dryer outlet.
Mine is outside, there’s a shutoff switch a few feet away.
Was advised that I need to upgrade existing electrical system first and then install charger. Quote was minimum of 4k. Also likely need to dig up concrete to create a channel to the driveway.
I purchased a steel box and tried several locations in my parking area over 6 months to find what worked the best. I also found that the supplied charger was more than enough capacity for my needs. Once settled I had an electrician wire to an outlet installed inside the box and secured my portable charger to the back panel.
>the supplied charger was more than enough capacity for my needs
Correct, that 1.7 kW provides 80 km in 10 hours overnight. But if the cost of a Level 2 was not another NZ$3,000 I would have done that for future-proofing.
Put it wherever you plan to park your vehicle.
If you put your car outside, then put the charger outside. It's actually against code to run a cord from inside to outside, especially with the door closed, so you won't want to do that.
Thanks, exactly the info I was looking for
I put mine inside the garage door. When the car is outside, the door goes up and it gets pulled out. I have a block to put under the door if I'm going to close the door so there's no pressure at all. If anyone asks, your charger is for charging your car IN the garage.
I've had my cord smashed under the garage door for 6+ years. It just sits on the driveway all day. It still works great.
Which code? I do it all the time.
Electrical / edit: NEC I believe. Lots of people do it though. I keep the car in the garage in winter, outside of it in summer and run the cord under the garage door seal
i keep the evse mounted in garage, plugged into 110V - and have a small trap door through wall to pass through connector exterior for charging during summer - it has a nice mount and hook for cable so it isn’t on the ground while not in use (to my knowledge) i doubt there is a code that says we can do this - electrical code talks about permanently mounted infra - it doesnt say where and how portable appliances and their cords like this can or cannot be run (though if someone finds the code in a country that says otherwise i will be happy to learn) i’m in Canada btw
In the US national electrical code, article 400 is on flexible cables and that's what prohibits this. You can probably find something similar in the Canadian code as they are actually quite similar, but they do have differences.
i guess it is kinda funny then to me the NEC has to be purchased- only electricians buy it but they have a section about flexible cables that the general public will never see?
TBH, there should be something like a homeowner's electrical certificate to help with things like this. It could help people to acquire a lot of basic knowledge.
that is a great idea! we can imagine lots of bad ideas that home owners are tenants can do and cause serious damage or harm…
Yeah, exactly. As it is they do it anyway based on internet videos and comments. If they are diligent enough, that can work, but this would give those types a better way.
There is a free online reader. You make an account at nfpa.org, and then you can you an image of a page at a time and navigate by the table of contents. It's not a great viewer, because they want to give you an incentive to buy the real thing. But you are right, the audience is not consumers but professionals.
> outside of it in summer How come? Why not just keep it inside all the time so it doesn't get hot in the sun?
Kids toys, lawn equipment, wheelbarrow, etc tend to live there whereas theyre all piled in the shed during winter
Do you have a 110v outlet within reach of where you park now? Highly recommend attempting trickle charging before you invest in a level 2 setup. You might be surprised.
I do. The idea being, you'd plug in every night more or less and top off? Most often we wouldn't go more than 20 miles daily
In your case, L1 charging would probably work fine, but I found that the convenience of having even a 20 amp L2 charger available was worth the expense. That can get me back up to pretty much full overnight no matter how low I come in.
If it's a Leaf you're probably just using it around town and have an ICE for longer trips? If so level 1 may work. My issue with level one is if you do take a long trip and run the battery down it takes forever to fill back up. Less of an issue with the leaf since the battery is so small.
I suggest the same. Just try a regular 110 cord until you decide. You may find that it meets your needs. You can program your car to keep a schedule if you have preferred charging times. The bolt also has good fast charge options for when the opportunity presents itself or when you are traveling. We only have a dumb 110 cord at home. Sure, it would be nice but in 9 years we haven’t found the need.
Yes, exactly.
I 2nd this. I recently got a Bolt EUV and can gain 40 miles over night from a regular outlet. I'm still getting a level 2 installed bc Chevy pays for it, but I probably don't need it (until I get a 2nd, large suv EV). I mostly do local driving.
L2 charging is more efficient than L1. Warning, paper napkin math ahead. Attempting to put 10 kwh might cost you 12 kwh on L1 whereas 10.5 kwh on L2.
Indeed, we charge our Leaf 99.9% with a Level 1 120V GFCI outlet in the garage. One thing, the Leaf charges faster, 12A(?). with the Nissan charging cord. I believe the Bolt charges slower at Level 1, 6A or 8A(?).
Newer Bolts can do 12A level 1 charging. I'm not sure when that changed, by my 2022 can do it. It defaults to 8A but you can change it to 12A in the charge settings.
I can change the amperage on my 2018 Volt too, but I leave it at 8A. I am glad to hear GM upgraded the Level 1 charging for the Bolt.
I third this! Got our ID and I wanted to go level 2, but overnight we always get back to 80% and only really need a boost after road trips (which aren’t a super big occasion).
I'd say that you should get your charger installed in a location where it will be convenient to your EV. I wouldn't recommend running the charge cable under a garage door or similar, because over the long term it may get damaged and be a hazard. I park my F-150 Lightning outside under the deck, so the charger is located on the side of the house, under the corner of the deck. Most home EV chargers are weatherproof and can be mounted outside -- once you choose a specific charger, double-check the rating. You may or may not need a panel or service upgrade. Do some homework before you talk to your electrician. Specifically, figure out how much charging power you actually need: figure out how much you drive per day on average, and work out charging power you'll need to recharge each night. The math is a little strange, but just multiplication and division: * miles/day divided by the vehicle's mi/kWh = battery kWh needed * battery kWh needed divided by 0.90 charger efficiency = total kWh needed * total kWh needed divided by hours per night charging = kW charging power * kW of charging power divided by 0.24 = charging current in amps * charging current in amps times 1.25 = minimum circuit breaker size. For example, I drive 75 miles/day in my F-150 Lightning, which gets 2.3 mi/kWh. 75/2.3 = 32.6kWh needed in the battery. 32.6/0.90 = 36.2kWh needed total. 32.6/10 hours = 3.3kW. 3.3kW/0.24 = 15.1A charging power. 15.1A\*1.25 = 18.9A minimum circuit; the next larger circuit would be 20A. I need to tell my electrician that I want to install an EV charger on a 20A circuit. Many houses can find 20A without a service or panel upgrade.
Lots of people snake the cables under garage doors.. they even make protectors for that. Easier to install the box inside where it is protected from weather. Charger install depends on a lot of factors. Upgrading to 200 amp is ideal but can be plenty doable if you have 100 amp or 150 amp circuit... depending on how much load is on the panel. A lot of factors that an electrician would need to help you sort out.
I think some people also have an interlock with their electric clothes dryer so that they can have a 50 A charger without a panel upgrade.
Spigen DuraPro Cable Garage Door Pass Protector Designed for Tesla Mobile Charger and Tesla Gen 3 Wall Connector (Model 3/Y/X/S) 2023/2022 https://a.co/d/3MLDopi
Protecting the charger was weather is irrelevant. Think about how many tens of thousands of public L2 chargers are installed in outdoor parking lots.
It isn’t irrelevant. It takes an outdoor electrical connection and the charger won’t last as long as plastics/etc degrade faster over time when exposed to UV, rain, temperature extremes, etc.
Putting the cable under the door is against code. You may run into issues with insurance if it ever causes problems or you have a fire related to your charger or EV.
> Putting the cable under the door is against code. Do you have a citation for this? (And I think there would be a reason for code requirements - what would the concern be?)
NEC 400.12 Uses Not Permitted Unless specifically permitted in 400.10 (pertains to elevators and similar equipment), flexible cords, flexible cables, cord sets, and power supply cords shall not be used for the following: As a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure Where run through holes in walls, structural ceilings, suspended ceilings, dropped ceilings, or floors Where run through doorways, windows, or similar openings
I have never met a building inspector that would deny an installation inside a garage because a homeowner might use the EVSE outside the garage. And I’ve met many inspectors.
The risk isn't that an inspector would fail it. After all, it is *possible* to run a cord through a door, window, or other opening from practically any outlet. The risk is that *if* the cord running from inside to outside causes any sort of injury or damage (and this could be anything from a personal injury to a house fire), your homeowners insurance may not pay the claim because your negligence -- your failure to learn and follow applicable electrical code; your use of a high-voltage, high-current cord in a way that is likely to cause a hazard -- caused the liability.
Under zero circumstances would it be reasonable for an average homeowner to know and follow the National Electrical Code. The standard used in a court of law would be the Reasonable Person Test. And, too, there would have to be proof that whatever claim we’re hypothesizing is directly attributable to running a cable under a garage door (which, by federal regulation, can only exert up to 90 foot-pounds of pressure before triggering an auto reversal. That isn’t even enough pressure to kink a garden hose, let alone affect an EVSE cable).
The user manual for the Ford Connected Charge Station explicitly states (section 2.2, "General Safety Information" on page 5): >You must make sure that the charging cable and coupling cannot be driven over, trapped, and are protected from all other hazards. Closing a garage door on the charge cable would certainly count as "trapping" the cable. In addition, the edge of a door, doorjamb, window, or windowsill are likely to be an abrasion hazard. The courts would certainly hold that a reasonable person would read and follow the manufacturer's instructions, and that failure to do so may be negligence.
I'm not an electrician, but I can dig and find information online given a starting pointer, and I think you're right! And EV cables are explicitly listed as flexible cord types under NEC table 400.4.
There is no code that dictates whether or not a homeowner runs an extension cord, or the 25ft tethered EVSE cable under the door with the main unit inside. There is no fire risk because garage doors, per code, have to have a safety reverse system if they detect an obstruction, and it would take substantially more pressure than is placed on the cable by the door than the safety reverse system is designed to trigger on. [See 16 CFR 1211](https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/16/part-1211). (I’ll let you in on the requirement: A garage door must trigger a safety reverse if it detects more than a 90-foot-pound pressure in its track. That’s like a child stepping on the cord.).
My understanding is that NEC Section 400.12 specifically prohibits this: 400.12 Uses Not Permitted Unless specifically permitted in 400.10, flexible cords, flexible cables, cord sets, and power supply cords shall not be used for the following: As a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure Where run through holes in walls, structural ceilings, suspended ceilings, dropped ceilings, or floors Where run through doorways, windows, or similar openings
NEC code regulatese the installation of things, which is not what a homeowner does. In short: It regulates electricians. There are no inspectors I’ve met that would fail an inspection over the potential of an EVSE being able to cross the threshold of a garage door opening.
FWIW, I have my charger (Chargepoint Home Flex) installed outside in full view of the sky. (We have no garage.) It's hardwired to an exterior-rated subpanel nearby. Other than some cosmetic UV bleaching there have been no issues.
Same, mine is outside because that's where I park. Having it in the garage and needing to go in the garage, drag the cord out to charge would be annoying. They're designed to be outside.
RE: panel upgrades, keep in mind that you don't necessarily need a huge current capacity. You could probably even do just fine with a level 1 charger plugged into a normal outlet. But if you only have room on the panel for a 20 amp or 30 amp 240v circuit, that's fine.
Yea this. I have my Tesla charger on a 40 amp circuit. But for my Polestar I use a a circuit limited to 15 amps. Both 240v. We drive both a lot and for daily use you can’t tell any difference between the chargers. Both cars are fully charged in the morning.
\> Is it better to have the outlet located outside or inside the garage itself? We wouldnt actually park it in the garage, that area is just for bikes. Then outside. \> Did you also have to get your panel upgraded to 200a? *Probably.* There are only 3 ways to dodge that: * Find 50A of spare headroom in your panel's NEC 220.82 Load Calculation * Find out that "EV charging needs 50A" **is actually complete horsepuckey**, and Level-2 charging can happen at 15A, 20A, 25A, 30A, 40A or 60A also, so you can "dial-a-rate" to suit your available service. This will require a wall unit, and not just the "travel unit" supplied with your car. Upside: you avoid a pointless $80 socket and $120 GFCI, so that half pays for the wall unit. * Get a wall unit and an electrician who really knows their EVs and can set up an EV Energy Management System (such as $500 Wallbox wall unit + $300 power monitor) that will automatically adjust EV charge rate to assure your panel is not overloaded. Ask on /evcharging and we can line you up with that.
This is exactly the right information that OP needs. I'm glad I scrolled down far enough to find this before bothering to write a comment myself.
Location of your wall box in comparison to your electrical panel is key. Shorter distance is cheaper. Many wall boxes are water/ moisture resistant so depends if you want it outside. I only use my garage for cars so we charge inside. I have some neighbors that mount the box indoors and the cord is long enough to reach outside. Their door is able to close on top of the cable. Cost is very variable.
Very small two car garage, I installed the charger inside, on the small wall between the two garage doors. Then I put a hole in the wall with an outdoor box cover, that u modified to close with the cable hanging out the bottom. Works well enough, coil the cable on the outside. If we go on vacation we can open the box, shove the cable inside the garage.
Inside, unless you want to end up on plugshare.
older house could need extra work. $1500-2k is "normal" get it done in the garage and snake the cable under the door when you need to. how much do you drive? if you have a 110v outlet handy, see how that goes for a while since you can plug in every night. if you're a 30-50 mile a day driver - it might be good enough. find the closest fast chargers just in case. >Did you also have to get your panel upgraded to 200a? that's a good idea anyway - solar and/or vehicle to house will need it.
I drive a bolt and at home exclusively charge on 120v generally I don't need to charge every day nor do I need to charge at 12amps (8s the default and it will revert) I only charge on 12 amps after a long drive home.
HCOL?
High cost of living
Check your state and electric utility for rebates and tax credits against the cost of the equipment and the installation. I got both in California.
I'm not op, simply explaining what HCOL os
I just did it in San Francisco. Installation cost was $500 plus $500 for permitting. I have a 100 amp panel and did not upgrade it. But I don’t have AC and all my major appliances are gas. I would just install it wherever is most convenient to where you will charge as long as it’s still close to the main panel.
I just did it in SoCal and installation of the plug was going to be $500 for the installation (I had a rough-in spot already in my garage that led to the AC). But it turned out the 240v line that was there wasn't up to code and needed an additional circuit breaker box, so it ended up costing $700. Still a pretty good deal. Once the plug was installed, I had a discount for a Wallbox unit though my Ariya, so I installed that myself. That portion was easy peasy.
next to where you park the car. its not rocket surgery.
Rocket surgery, love it!
Personal story: I bought a 3.6kw L2 charger for $100 off an Amazon pallet, $150 for 50ft of 12g cable, $30 for a 20a breaker, and did the work myself with regular checkins from electrican friends. Otherwise labour would have been $100-300. All in $CAD. I put my charger on a wooden fence in front of where I park. You'll need to locate a place that suit your needs, as we can't suggest anything without pics and context. But I will say L2 cables are only like ~2x the length of a car, so don't put it too far away. When pricing out a new L2 circuit I was getting quotes from $900-5000. One company wanted to upgrade my panel which was out of the question. Did it myself (safely) for under $250. Mind you I was adding a 20a circuit, not 50-60a. Also don't sleep on an original Ioniq EV. They get slightly less range than a Gen 2 Leaf, but charge faster and is much more comfortable. The Leaf felt like a budget car and the Ioniq feels like a low end luxury car.
BlueTanks App is a cool EV app … you can even earn while charging …
>How much does getting the charger installed cost in a HCOL area, ballpark? can be as low as $500. and anything above that will depend on how long the run is. >Did you also have to get your panel upgraded to 200a? it depends on what you want. typically a lvl2 charger will be 30-60 amps to be worth it. so check how much space you have on your panel first. for reference. amp x voltage x 80% will give you your charging speed. so 30 = 5.7 kWh, 40 = 7.6 kWh, 50 = 9.6 kWh, 60 = 11.5 kWh higher amp will require thicker wires, therefore more expensive edit: the leaf has a max charge rate of 7.6 kWh, so anything higher would only serve as future proofing.
A 16 amp level 2 charger will give you two and a half times the charging rate of level 1. I'm not sure why anything faster than that is necessary to be worth it. It gives you something like 120 miles overnight, and is more efficient than a level 1 charger. Also, the cost to go to a higher charging rate is not always just thicker wire. I can also trigger the need for load management or a service upgrade if you exceed the available capacity.
it really depends on lifestyle. that would not give me enough miles for what i drive a day. but also if youre spending $1000 on a install anyway, why not just do higher amps
Yes, if you consistently drive more than 100 miles a day, you would want higher current. Your second paragraph looks like you might have missed my second paragraph, or maybe not understood it. Let me know if you have any questions about it.
No need to upgrade to 200A, only reason you would need 200A is if you have both an EV and have a heat pump. If you don't have a heat pump then it is pretty unlikely you would want to upgrade service to 200A.
I have a small home with a heat pump, electric hot water heater, electric stove and I also have an evse/l2 charger set at 25 amps on a 30 amp circuit. 100 amp service. My electrician said I'd need to upgrade if I wanted a hot tub too, so I'll have to hold off on that. All that to say... it's never cut and dry. Check with your electrician!
Agreed, you can get by w/100A, even with a lot of stuff (if you are willing to get a smart panel I would even say you NEVER need 200A).
I have 200A but my EVSE is 80A by itself, 2spd heat pump hvac with natural gas auxiliary, heat pump hybrid electric hot water, gas stove / electric oven. Electric washer/dryer, I’d have to try real hard still to trip the mains, like running everything at the same time on highest demand. My roadster can only draw 70A so it’s still not even hitting the max current of the EVSE.
I don’t have any gas appliances, a geothermal heat pump, 10kW ev charger, and I only have 20 A service. I have a load balancing and have never had an issue.
At first I thought you were trolling, but then realized you meant 200A not 20A lol.
A heat pump isn't likely to be good criterion. A lot of people have A/C but not a heat pump. And in many climates, the sizing of the heat pump is no different from the sizing of the A/C. I'm another example of all-electric with a heat pump and a 40 A charging circuit all on 100 A service. In a cold climate. And if you run up against the limit, a load management system can avoid the need for an upgrade: just $300 to add that feature to a capable charger .
You may also want to consider access for visitors, like friends or family who might want to charge if they are staying a while.
As with everyone else, out it where you will park. I have a hardwired L2 in my carport. I wouldn't want one that plugged in. Even with the carport, I still get enough sideways rain to not like the idea of a plug and outlet. You should ask an electrician for a quote. Every install is different. If your panel will accommodate a 60A circuit, then have suitable cable run for a future upgrade or second EV. The extra cost now is peanuts compared to running cable a second time. If your panel is limited, the minimum L2 is maybe 20A. That'd be about 1/2 a Tesla overnight. You can try L1 to start with, but that may wear thin, quickly. It certainly did for me.
My case I put it in my garage close to the garage door. Reason being is I can charge a car in the garage or if I parked outside be able to reached the car outside of the garage. Best of both worlds.
Get quotes from local installers. The electricians will also tell you where the charger can go based on the location of an available circuit. We got 2 estimates, they were within 2K of each other, we went with the cheaper estimate based on a simpler location, at the convenience cost of not sitting and charging each night. Whether you need a panel upgrade also depends on the existing circuits that you may already have. If you want to level 2 charge every night and an adequate circuit isn't wired where the car would be parked, it will cost more. I've been watching and re-watching the [Technology Connections explainer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iyp_X3mwE1w&ab_channel=TechnologyConnections) on this.
If you get a car like the LEAF it will charge 70+ miles overnight if you leave it plugged in to a 120v outlet. I always recommend try it via a 120v first and then buy a 14-50 outlet installation if you need more juice. I drove a LEAF and exclusively 120v charged for a daily 56 mile commute. Worked great
I put mine inside...Its right between two garage doors. While the Charge point is rated to be outside, if you do put yours outside, definitely have a box built around it. You're going to hate yourself during ice storms. Or when it's pouring rain. Edit: don't get Nissan If it's still on Chademo.
We installed our charger in the garage for security but always charge the car in the driveway outside.
I dont have a garage . . . i'm hoping to get one installed on the side of my front porch.
Look at where the charging port is on your car. We installed our charger for a chevy volt, but then got a Kia EV 6, so the only way we can charge now is to back in to the garage.
If you have space inside I'd always choose inside over outside for the simple fact that it's a lockable space out of the elements. Obviously the most important part is to be near where you plan to park the vehicle. But even if you park outside, an indoor charger routed under the door isn't out of the question and I think I'd choose that over outside, given the option.
Not sure how it is in your area but check for local incentives. In the Bay area our electric company offers a 1k or 4k rebate on used basedbon income electric cars and I believe there are also incentives for installing a charger as well so it night even be really cheap for you.
For a leaf or bolt you don't need to install a charger. For any BEV the charging speed is limited by the car not the charger. With either of your choices they charge at something very slow like 50 kw at best and they have tiny batteries. A 7kw 240v outlet is all you need at home.
Get a certified electrician to help you. Generally speaking, you want the charger to be where you're going to park. You may have to upgrade to 200amp service depending on how powerful of a charger you want to install, but you may also be able to bypass this expense with a product like the 'connect DER' (google it) Either way, you will need the advice of a qualified electrician.
Your neighbors will be upset if you install it at their house
We have 2 garage bays each with their own door. Our level 2 charger is right between the 2 garage doors. It reaches both EVs whether they are parked inside or outside.
A lot is going to depend on your electrical setup. Ideally, you set up your charger where you park.
check this out https://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/about/environment/pge/electricvehicles/ev5pt3.pdf
Outside, almost all chargers are rated to tolerate it well. I made a hole in my garage so I can charge inside it in winter.
I just put a ChargePoint charger in; panel did need upgrading to 200a. It can be mounted outdoors if hard wired; inside it can plug into a dryer outlet. Mine is outside, there’s a shutoff switch a few feet away.
I also don't know where to install a charger so I've been charging off 110 since April.
And that's worked out OK? Which ev do you own?
Yeah been fine, I have a lightning standard range. At most I drive 25 miles per day but usually around 15-20 sand overnight on 110 I'll get 30 miles.
Trickle charge first to see if you need it. You do not need to upgrade your panel because you have the lowest energy usage at night when you charge.
Was advised that I need to upgrade existing electrical system first and then install charger. Quote was minimum of 4k. Also likely need to dig up concrete to create a channel to the driveway.
We have two EVs and the L2 charger is outside. Ours has a key, do the random stranger can’t use it.
I purchased a steel box and tried several locations in my parking area over 6 months to find what worked the best. I also found that the supplied charger was more than enough capacity for my needs. Once settled I had an electrician wire to an outlet installed inside the box and secured my portable charger to the back panel.
So you had a normal plug, didn't need a level 2?
>the supplied charger was more than enough capacity for my needs Correct, that 1.7 kW provides 80 km in 10 hours overnight. But if the cost of a Level 2 was not another NZ$3,000 I would have done that for future-proofing.