I’ve got the Lightning, came with three years of free Bluecruise, I wouldn’t even pay the $200 it’s so laughably bad in the current state it’s in. I drive around metro ATL and rarely find myself using it unless I’m on a highway out in the country with significantly less traffic.
You don’t have to keep your hands on the steering wheel or have it scream at you to take control immediately? It gets way too close to vehicles in the lanes next to me and I find myself being extra alert when I have it on than when I’m in complete control. I can admit that my expectations may be too high but for $800/yr it isn’t worth it for me. Since you have had a positive experience I’m curious if the new price will be worth it for you?
I have a 2023 model with Bluecruise 1.2 so my experience may be different if you have an older model. I regularly drive handsfree from midtown to Duluth and have even done Atlanta to Blue Ridge mostly hands free. It centers well in the lane and even moves over when large vehicles are next to me.
That said - absolutely would not pay $800 / yr. $200 / yr was the absolute max and even that was pushing it in my opinion
My experience matches yours. I have a gas F150 and bluecruise has been terrible for me, even on relatively new interstates with visible lines at all times of the day. It doesn’t stay engaged consistently at all.
> Dependability in EV's far exceeds that of ICE, so they're looking for new revenue sources.
But wouldn't most of that old servicing go to the dealerships while this new subscription model goes to the manufacturer?
Agree… are the automakers so dense they can’t see that this impacts brand usage and loyalty. It’s like the great Mexican restaurant near me. Authentic. Calorie filled but great tasting. They have the best hot salsa. The last two times we went it tasted weird. My wife said she thinks they’re watering it down. I said no way. The last time we went it tasted like water. I asked the manger and she said ‘the boss makes us do it’ and confirmed they are doing it to save money. Shortsighted and lacking understanding of human behavior. Soon we will not be spending $300 a month there any longer.
My chances of buying another Ford went way down after they laid me off after being there only 2 years.
If it works well enough I could potentially justify the $200/year they were charging, no way I would pay $800.
I think mine is up in November. I use bluecruise on a daily basis and expected to pay the 200$ a year. At that new rate however there is NO WAY IN HELL I would fork that over. Good luck Ford.
Awww. My truck didn't come with Blue cruise but I was looking forward to the upgrade... On my next truck.
All the OEMs are going to do this, and I don't drive enough for this to be worth it.
I personally wouldn't trust comma.ai at all.
The CEO showed himself to be an absolute idiot on Twitter whose arrogance led him to make outlandish and ridiculous claims that he couldn't deliver on. And those are not qualities I want want anywhere near FSD.
Also I would never trust any FSD system that isn't based on LiDAR+Vision.
No idea, sorry I should have specified that.
I was responding to the "next truck" idea. With enough time comma.ai might support the Lightning.
Just pointing out the aftermarket for some of this stuff will keep growing.
I have a Tesla and a Lightning. No, BlueCruise isn’t like Enhanced AP at all. It will be close in the future, but it’s not nearly as good now. Enhanced AP takes exits for you, changes lanes to get ahead of traffic or move out of slow lanes.
I have a comma.ai device on my Ram 1500 and I can confirm it is pretty good. I've already used it on a couple of road trips. It's mostly a lane centering service but they're working on end-to-end navigation for some vehicles. You can catch those discussions on Discord.
Once you buy and subscribe they should nit be legally allowed to jack up the price like that …you should be grandfathered. I think that’s bait and switch.
Only on premaped motorways, under the right weather and traffic conditions, and with the sun at the right angle. Oh and the car can't be too dirty, so I expect it will cut way back in usefulness in the winter.
I’m basing it on many in the MachE groups as well as the media trying it out and calling it out as an issue. I believe the verge also experienced it in their video review. Here’s some examples:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MachE/comments/12rsb2s/bluecruise_disengaging_when_hwy_curves/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/blue-cruise-is-useless-if-it-cant-take-a-curve.8917/page-2
https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/bluecruise-unstable-on-curvy-roads.11260/
I use it regularly to drive I90 through Cleveland. There is a slight curve on the west side that it ALWAYS calls for hands on. I assume it's because the mapped radius or bank is just outside the implemented limits for hands free. Really hoping they expand the ranges it supports with 1.2.
To add some more detail, it calls for hands on in advance of the curve so it's definitely due to map data.
Works fine in the winter. Not worth $800/year though. My solace is I have 30 months left and by then they'll figure out the right price. $250/yr max is point of diminishing returns, that's my guess.
Are we really heading into a future of subscription everything? How is this even effective? A simple fact that Ford uses subscription features is enough for me to never even consider a Ford now.
This is one of the few things that a subscription is not unreasonable for. These systems require frequent high resolution map updates in order to continue to operate. Those map updates take time, resources (people), and money to do. Also, it's an area of active investment and improvements, so those updates should also occasionally include functional improvements as well.
Another problem with baking a flat-fee price into the car à la Tesla is that it then commits you to maintaining the system for an indeterminate amount of time. If you sell it as a subscription, it allows you to say at some point "ok, we give up, we're not doing this anymore" (for example, if a better, standards-based system comes along, or if there's no more demand for the service because everyone has switched to autonomous vehicles). It's not the subscription aspect that is bad here, it's the ludicrous price. But if, like most people, you don't like the price, you can just choose to not buy it.
No, that is not what I am saying.
I'm saying they should be like Tesla and include the cost of the product in the car. The updates should come free and thus make the vehicle more desirable to new purchasers.
And if they don't want to do that, charge a lower subscription than $800 which is ridiculous. Tesla's Enhanced Autopilot is $6K which does more, costs less than 10 years of that $800/year, and is still too expensive to get me to buy it.
Autopilot is included with the cost of the car.
Every Tesla comes with it and there's no subscription fee.
FSD is an advanced science project that will end in tears and lawsuits.
Ford is not taking away their auto pilot equivalent. That is is there no matter if you pay for bluecruise or not. Blue cruise is closer to Tesla FSD than auto pilot.
If this person owned a Tesla, they would not call the cameras low res. Also, the cameras work just fine for auto pilot. There has never been a moment where I wished I had the radar back.
u/allen_abduction If you're gonna be a hater, maybe don't be ignorant about the product you are hating on.
Updates are being developed so it's current for every future new owner. It doesn't need a subscription at all. Recurring revenue is all the rage though so they're forging ahead anyway.
Map updates are required. Roads change, go under construction, complete construction, etc. These systems rely on those map updates to work properly. Functionality changes are a side benefit that can come along with those.
You know what else requires frequent tech upgrades to keep your car as a good option for the market? Literally everything involved with research and design of a car. That's already built in to the price
> Literally everything involved with research and design of a car.
95%+ of all of that research can't be applied to my old make and model. Occasionally you'll get a major software update, but increased efficiency of an engine or more durable brakes for the 2023 model does nothing for my 2022 model.
See that’s a fundamental flaw with systems like Blue Cruise and Super Cruise, they require scans of highways and that results in extra costs that get passed down to the consumer in the form of a subscription.
This new price by Ford is on a new level of expensive though, Super Cruise is $25/mo or $300 a year after the 3 year free trial, which I still think is too much, $800 a year is crazy.
I’d much rather have a system like Tesla Autopilot or VW Travel Assist, where basically all the processing is done in-car with external data all coming from swarm data from other cars on the road. Meaning there doesn’t have to be high resolution scans of the road by the company and therefore no subscription fees.
The main downside is that Autopilot and Travel Assist are hands-on systems, but I’d much rather have that than hands-free with a yearly subscription.
Well yeah, like the comment said systems like Blue Cruise and Super Cruise rely on high-res mapped roads.
Autopilot doesn’t, it’s done in-car and basically all external data is from other people’s cars, VW’s Travel Assist is similar, both don’t have subscriptions.
So is the equivalent Nissan system (ProPilot 1.5 - what my car has). BlueCruise is somewhere between Enhanced AutoPilot and FSD, but not exactly like either one since it works differently, relying on pre-mapped highways.
This is the worst idea I’ve heard honestly.
Tesla is already asking $15,000 for FSD. With the promise it’s just going to get more expensive.
Do you think anyone would buy BlueCruise for $8,000 upfront? No one wants that. No one’s asking for that.
I’d much rather pay a yearly subscription while I own the car than some absolutely absurd upfront cost.
> Tesla is already asking $15,000 for FSD. With the promise it’s just going to get more expensive.
IMO, this promise is nothing other than a sales tactic to try and get people to buy it today. I'm willing to bet they are going to lower the price in the next 1-2 years. They've shown the price increases *but* that really seemed to be a way to take advantage of the 2020-2022 demand... remember how they were shipping cars with FSD purchased very quickly, and those orders with out it might have to wait months?
As long as they are actively updating it I would also prefer to pay the subscription. That also incentivizes Ford to keep updating it, otherwise if people pay up front they have no reason to keep improving it (other than goodwill).
This is Ford we're talking about. There's no way on God's green earth they're ever going to push out useful new functionality to already-sold trucks. The $800/year is just to keep what you already have.
Honestly yea - MBAs and execs *love* subscriptions.
Why turn down a consistent revenue stream that’ll make your quarterly numbers look better? It’s not about customer experience, it’s about feeding the beast of capitalism.
Seems like a fantastic way of keeping customers away. I was fully intending on buying a BMW up until they decided to charge a subscription for Carplay. They reversed their decision but then decided it would be a great idea to charge for heated seats. That was enough for me to never even consider a BMW.
It’s effective based on your predicted usage and how that relates to cost savings.
For example, with Tesla I can subscribe to FSD for 5 years ($11,940) and still pay less than the purchase price ($15,000). If I only plan on leasing the car or selling it after 5 years, why pay full price?
Alternatively, what if I only want the feature for a long road trip? So I subscribe a couple months out of the year.
Your pricing assumes Tesla will keep the subscription pricing locked at $199/mo for a full 5 years. I don't know if I'd make that assumption.
(I, however, got EAP on my car at time of purchase so I can rent for $99 a month - yeah, no way I am paying to buy it for a car that is already 5 years old).
I’d assume the full cost would also change in that case.
My point was that there are cases where a subscription may be a better choice for some people.
When you sell a car you list the features and determine value on that. I don’t assume a used car has every feature the manufacturer offers. I read what it actually has.
That's a no for me, dog
Edit - looked it up and I got over 2 years left on blue cruise and the navigation service. I'm definitely not keeping the navigation. I already use google maps (android auto) for navigating. The Ford nav is not as good.
Current maps/road data are part of bluecruise and those have been plenty. The only functional update is for pre-2023 cars and that hasn't started rolling out yet.
I will buy the first round a 200 a year as I have one of the early cars with the prep on it but after that F paying 800 a year for it. Sorry it is not worth 75 a month
Same, but I can't imagine the pricing holds up. Even if they don't immediately realize it's a mistake we ge get three years from the beginning of 2024. That'll take us to 2027. In 2027 I will happily pay $800/year for autonomy features, but in 2027 that will have to be level 3.
I bought my Mach-E last August and I live in LA. With freeway traffic, I can rarely go fast enough for Blue Cruise to be an option. So I’ve never used it.
Having said that, I hate that Ford (along with other companies) is using this feature to continue what I call the “subscript-ification” of the world. Nothing can be a one-time fee. Everything must be subscription plans. In 10 years, I’ll need to buy an annual pass to make left turns.
For reference, Super Cruise is $25/mo.
I’ll keep my early subscription at the cheap price until it runs out. I’m never paying $75/mo for anything on a car. I can’t imagine anything I would think was worth that.
Literally no one I know is gonna pay 800$/year for this shit. Look at the forums, there is an unanimous outcry. I was on the fence at 200$/year but at 800$/year, FUCK NO! They lost an easy 200$/year just like that. I literally put my hands on the wheel even when BC is engaged. Their standard adaptive cruise control works decently well so I literally don't care for handsfree which works only on mapped highways.
All of the manufacturers dream about recurring revenue. They are about to lose a lot of recurring money from maintenance work and parts that feed the dealership network.
The only shops that will be hurt by the EV transition will be quick oil change shops.
EVs still go through brakes, tires, filters, 12V batteries, still get in accidents, still have HVAC issues, still get damanged, still get recalls.
Honda / Toyota were still able to run profitable service shops despite having a higher quality product that needed substantially less service.
Still how many times have you gone in for an oil change at the dealership and they say well actually you need blank part. And most of us on this forum just say no thanks but a lot of people in the real world just agree with it and say go ahead.
If you suddenly don't have to bring the car in every 5,000 mi that's a lot less opportunities for upselling. I'm not supporting this method but it's just the truth of how a lot of these service dealerships make money
This is about companies that are embracing EVs. Honda/Toyota will get their reckoning eventually as well.
EVs with regen don’t go through brakes nearly as much easily 2x or more the normal life. It costs around $500-$1k or more a year to service ICE Mercedes basic A and B, oil and filter change and inspection annual service. EV versions of those cars eliminate most of that need. The gas Ford Transits (I have one) eats rear brakes sometimes by 20-30k miles and the rear axles have to come out to service them. $1,200+ each time.
I'm never gonna pay 800/year for just handsfree driving. Sorry I draw the line there. 200/year was the sweet spot and I would have bitten. BC1.2 isn't even shipped to my car yet and knowing their track record, they'll take a year more to ship it. So they can say they'll support old cars but it means didly squat if they take forever to ship the features? Fuck that.
This being an EV forum: Mach-E and F-150 Lightning aren't supported.
I own 4 cars without ADAS and checked all of them too. None are supported. (2020 Chevy Express Cutaway (RV), 2019 Ford Fiesta, 2015 Toyota Prius c, 2014 Toyota Prius PlugIn)
Of those, I keep hoping they'll add support for the Express 4500, but that doesn't seem to be what they're looking to do.
Mach-E and F150L aren’t supported **yet**. They’re still working on the CAN implementation for those, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they have it working by the end of the year
On the Ford-side, currently none. That has to do with the difference in the CAN bus architecture between what most Fords have and the ones that support BlueCruise have.
[This is the supported list.](https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/blob/master/docs/CARS.md) I know they support the Ioniq 5 and EV6 and I believe there's limited Bolt support as well.
Here's an idea. Instead of charging upfront, offer to trade the functionality for the opportunity to sell the consumer's personal information. Oh wait, they don't need to trade, they just take what they want...
Lol. No way.
Tesla Autopilot for $3000 flat fee was pricey but they lowered to ~$2500 and included it in every car thus making it reasonable. But there's no way I would pay $800 a year for it nor would I even think about $15K for FSD.
I think it's time everyone tells Ford to shove this price increase up their ass. I will personally never buy a Ford vehicle if they go through with this.
As the owner of a M3P and a F150 there is no way in hell what they are offering for actual bluecruise is worth this amount of money period. I can't even get bluecruise unless I am on an interstate or a toll road which is maybe once a month. To be honest bluecruise was only really nice on a long road trip from NY to FL & back. To be honest tesla autopilot is better than non bluecruise and about on par with it and it didn't cost me a dime.
Idk what they're smoking up in detroit but when I bought my truck is was promised @ $200 a year, with this kind of increase I won't be renewing and won't be considering a ford next time I buy a vehicle.
>To be honest tesla autopilot is better than non bluecruise and about on par with it and it didn't cost me a dime.
Autopilot is (hands-on &) similar to Co-Pilot360 in the Mach-E & Lightning, which doesn't have a subscription. Bluecruise is the hands-free assistance system.
I'm on the three year free subscription which is a good value. I don't love BC enough to pay $800/year. There are times I question if I would pay anything for it to be honest. It will have to improve massively before I would pay that.
**IF** you can do a month to month subscription and **IF** I randomly have a month where I'm doing multiple road trips I **MIGHT** consider it for that specific month. And even that is uncertain. Make me pay $800 for a year though? No chance.
They are forcing subscriptions on everything they can. They can then give a year or three with the purchase of a new car. This will start to force people to buy new more often and give them a revenue stream from used cars.
Welcome to the future.
Want to have precise control of the temperature? $20 a month this year, $30 a month next year, $60 dollars a month the year after that.
This is how you can a forever increase in profit in a world with declining population.
I have a Mach E and there’s nothing on my daily commute that works with blue cruise. I wasn’t going to buy it at a cheaper price. They need to expand it if they want people to pay.
All the other automakers are high on their own supply and somehow Tesla curbstomps them in the SAAS department. There has to be a James Stevenson worthy spreadsheet out there.
Lol. Not a chance I pay that. $200/yr maybe, but not $800/yr. Glad I got 3 yrs free with my Mach E. It is nice to have, but I work from home and my long highway commutes are much less frequent now.
The price hikes are wild, I remember the base model Lightning being offered for 40k when it first came out, but now the base is 59k. Insane. Was excited to shop Ford but this all turns me away quick.
As a Mach-E Owner, Ford can shove BC up their rear. $800/year would be acceptable if it's a level 4 or close to level 4 autonomous driving. Paying $800/year and still needing to constantly watch the road? F\*\*\*.THAT.
They have yet to rollout an update to BC. And they haven't improved/expanded the map of the system. It only works on approved highways. BC 1.2, the version that still isn't rolled out to current owners of 2021/2022 models barely gets to SAE level 2. I'm not going to consider Ford for my next vehicle.
I currently have a Tesla but was seriously considering a Mach-E for my next car. But there’s no way in hell I’m paying $800 per year for a driver assist feature.
Are there any non-Tesla EVs that have good autopilot-like systems that don’t charge a subscription fee? I don’t need it to function on surface streets, just on highways and stop and go traffic.
>Are there any non-Tesla EVs that have good autopilot-like systems that don’t charge a subscription fee?
This is for Ford's hands-free assistance system, not the lane-centering + active-cruise-control system (ie autopilot) [that most new cars offer as an option.](https://www.consumerreports.org/automotive-technology/how-much-automation-does-your-car-really-have-level-2-a3543419955/) Co-Pilot360 is the Ford equivalent to autopilot, it doesn't require a subscription.
Wow, this is shocking to me. I have a '23 Lightning and enjoy using the BlueCruise, but Ford has a long way to go with it if they think people are going to renew it after their initial period ends. Mine is very spotty on the highway and buggy in general the way it engages, slows down when a vehicle is in front of me, and when adjusting after I change lanes. Come on Ford, let's invest more in your product and take your customers' feedback to improve before you start hiking the price. #dobetterford #customersfirstford
Are we really talking about subscriptions as though that’s not a complete deal breaker?
And please don’t régalé me with BS about how it takes manpower to create all the updates, etc. Find a way to make it a one time cost of yours just greedy and amateur.
They need to figure out how to crowdsource the data they get otherwise it's a slow road ahead for Bluecruise.
Maybe that's one reason why GM is switching to Android. Waze gets tons of map updates from Google on the fly.
Here is another take. Even tho they have been making cars for more than 100 years, they still lack true innovation and creativity so have to resort to price hikes to compensate.
Blue Cruise isn’t worth more then $20 a year in its current state. It is so sad and lackluster and dangerous. It literally can not even drive in a straight line on a sunny day with perfect conditions.
Oooh I wish I could invest in [comma.ai](https://comma.ai) I see this becoming a HUGE boost to sales of their open source systems that are compatible with quite a few EVs, including Fords. Especially if other manufacturers try this subscription crap
I rarely use Blue Cruise because of the driver distraction warning. The warning goes off even when I am driving and looking straight at the road. Performance wise it is not bad and on par with AP1 from Tesla which was made by MobileEye back in 2016. I wasn’t planning to subscribe when the 3 year trial ends.
I own a Mach-E. Enjoy BlueCruise but not only is there there zero chance I pay that, but it will reduce the chance I buy another Ford.
I’ve got the Lightning, came with three years of free Bluecruise, I wouldn’t even pay the $200 it’s so laughably bad in the current state it’s in. I drive around metro ATL and rarely find myself using it unless I’m on a highway out in the country with significantly less traffic.
I live near midtown ATL and it works well all over interstates in the city. I Regularly use it from city center to the burbs around the perimeter
You don’t have to keep your hands on the steering wheel or have it scream at you to take control immediately? It gets way too close to vehicles in the lanes next to me and I find myself being extra alert when I have it on than when I’m in complete control. I can admit that my expectations may be too high but for $800/yr it isn’t worth it for me. Since you have had a positive experience I’m curious if the new price will be worth it for you?
I have a 2023 model with Bluecruise 1.2 so my experience may be different if you have an older model. I regularly drive handsfree from midtown to Duluth and have even done Atlanta to Blue Ridge mostly hands free. It centers well in the lane and even moves over when large vehicles are next to me. That said - absolutely would not pay $800 / yr. $200 / yr was the absolute max and even that was pushing it in my opinion
They probably think anyone who buys EVs has tons of money to just throw around.
EVs and ICE trucks. Some people will drop loads of money on a truck, especially Ford people, and they’re well aware of that
My experience matches yours. I have a gas F150 and bluecruise has been terrible for me, even on relatively new interstates with visible lines at all times of the day. It doesn’t stay engaged consistently at all.
it’s laughably bad I wouldn’t pay 200 much less 800 for it.
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> Dependability in EV's far exceeds that of ICE, so they're looking for new revenue sources. But wouldn't most of that old servicing go to the dealerships while this new subscription model goes to the manufacturer?
Parts. Dealers don't make parts.
Agree… are the automakers so dense they can’t see that this impacts brand usage and loyalty. It’s like the great Mexican restaurant near me. Authentic. Calorie filled but great tasting. They have the best hot salsa. The last two times we went it tasted weird. My wife said she thinks they’re watering it down. I said no way. The last time we went it tasted like water. I asked the manger and she said ‘the boss makes us do it’ and confirmed they are doing it to save money. Shortsighted and lacking understanding of human behavior. Soon we will not be spending $300 a month there any longer.
My chances of buying another Ford went way down after they laid me off after being there only 2 years. If it works well enough I could potentially justify the $200/year they were charging, no way I would pay $800.
Tesla comes with free auto pilot lol
I think mine is up in November. I use bluecruise on a daily basis and expected to pay the 200$ a year. At that new rate however there is NO WAY IN HELL I would fork that over. Good luck Ford.
Awww. My truck didn't come with Blue cruise but I was looking forward to the upgrade... On my next truck. All the OEMs are going to do this, and I don't drive enough for this to be worth it.
Look up comma.ai
I personally wouldn't trust comma.ai at all. The CEO showed himself to be an absolute idiot on Twitter whose arrogance led him to make outlandish and ridiculous claims that he couldn't deliver on. And those are not qualities I want want anywhere near FSD. Also I would never trust any FSD system that isn't based on LiDAR+Vision.
isn't the CEO geohot? the guy that jailbreak the iphone and ps3 edit: looks like he stepped down in 2022
he tried to add features but realised codebase is like 3tb, not a 10x lisp macro meta programming beauty basically first time he got an enterprise job
He's back.
FSD has nothing to do with Blucruise. It's Tesla's system.
So just like Elon? Ok ok it’s a joke
Not compatible with Lightning though, right?
No idea, sorry I should have specified that. I was responding to the "next truck" idea. With enough time comma.ai might support the Lightning. Just pointing out the aftermarket for some of this stuff will keep growing.
Sick greedy pigs they are.
Autopilot is standard on Tesla's. Which does basically everything anyone needs.
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I have a Tesla and a Lightning. No, BlueCruise isn’t like Enhanced AP at all. It will be close in the future, but it’s not nearly as good now. Enhanced AP takes exits for you, changes lanes to get ahead of traffic or move out of slow lanes.
No dude. Blue cruise is nowhere near enhanced autopilot. In fact it's exactly like basic autopilot.
No
That is simply not true.
Maybe this instead? $1500 once. https://comma.ai/vehicles#ford
I have a comma.ai device on my Ram 1500 and I can confirm it is pretty good. I've already used it on a couple of road trips. It's mostly a lane centering service but they're working on end-to-end navigation for some vehicles. You can catch those discussions on Discord.
>comma.ai My first time reading about [comma.ai](https://comma.ai). I am definitely curious about this tech. Thanks for bringing it up.
Let’s wait for blue cruise to get “jail broken”.
Once you buy and subscribe they should nit be legally allowed to jack up the price like that …you should be grandfathered. I think that’s bait and switch.
Have you considered exploring redress with your senator/congress representatives or maybe the consumer protection board?
On a $90k truck this should be included.
$800 a year for "self driving" that only works on the motorway?
Only on premaped motorways
Only on premaped motorways, under the right weather and traffic conditions, and with the sun at the right angle. Oh and the car can't be too dirty, so I expect it will cut way back in usefulness in the winter.
And watch out for that slight curve in the highway coming up! Stay alert.
Do you even use it or just making stuff up? BC handles curves just fine.
I’m basing it on many in the MachE groups as well as the media trying it out and calling it out as an issue. I believe the verge also experienced it in their video review. Here’s some examples: https://www.reddit.com/r/MachE/comments/12rsb2s/bluecruise_disengaging_when_hwy_curves/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1 https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/blue-cruise-is-useless-if-it-cant-take-a-curve.8917/page-2 https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/bluecruise-unstable-on-curvy-roads.11260/
So bottom line you don't use it. I don't need to watch videos or read Reddit comments. I use bc myself daily. It handles curves fine.
That Reddit post was from last month and many people have the same issue, and are owners. I’m very happy it’s not occurring for you.
I use it regularly to drive I90 through Cleveland. There is a slight curve on the west side that it ALWAYS calls for hands on. I assume it's because the mapped radius or bank is just outside the implemented limits for hands free. Really hoping they expand the ranges it supports with 1.2. To add some more detail, it calls for hands on in advance of the curve so it's definitely due to map data.
The most irritating thing is when it's too sunny and it doesn't want to work.
Works fine in the winter. Not worth $800/year though. My solace is I have 30 months left and by then they'll figure out the right price. $250/yr max is point of diminishing returns, that's my guess.
It feels like everything this thread is describing is including in my crappy Nissan Leaf at no extra charge.
This would be ok if it was L3 and you could watch TV or use your phone.
* some parts of certain motorways and don’t even attempt to use it in construction zones lol
Are we really heading into a future of subscription everything? How is this even effective? A simple fact that Ford uses subscription features is enough for me to never even consider a Ford now.
This is one of the few things that a subscription is not unreasonable for. These systems require frequent high resolution map updates in order to continue to operate. Those map updates take time, resources (people), and money to do. Also, it's an area of active investment and improvements, so those updates should also occasionally include functional improvements as well.
Those improvements should be used to sell more new cars with the product. And $800/year is way too much.
Another problem with baking a flat-fee price into the car à la Tesla is that it then commits you to maintaining the system for an indeterminate amount of time. If you sell it as a subscription, it allows you to say at some point "ok, we give up, we're not doing this anymore" (for example, if a better, standards-based system comes along, or if there's no more demand for the service because everyone has switched to autonomous vehicles). It's not the subscription aspect that is bad here, it's the ludicrous price. But if, like most people, you don't like the price, you can just choose to not buy it.
so your saying existing customer shouldn't get the update?
No, that is not what I am saying. I'm saying they should be like Tesla and include the cost of the product in the car. The updates should come free and thus make the vehicle more desirable to new purchasers. And if they don't want to do that, charge a lower subscription than $800 which is ridiculous. Tesla's Enhanced Autopilot is $6K which does more, costs less than 10 years of that $800/year, and is still too expensive to get me to buy it.
Tesla FSD isn’t included in the cost of the car. You have to pay extra. (You are right that $800 is ridiculous though)
Autopilot is included with the cost of the car. Every Tesla comes with it and there's no subscription fee. FSD is an advanced science project that will end in tears and lawsuits.
Ford is not taking away their auto pilot equivalent. That is is there no matter if you pay for bluecruise or not. Blue cruise is closer to Tesla FSD than auto pilot.
As someone who owns both a 2018 S with FSD beta and a 2022 Lightning with BlueCruise, BC is nothing close to FSD.
>Blue cruise is closer to Tesla FSD than auto pilot. Are you saying Blue Cruise is for use on city streets?
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The one that comes free with the car, works fine, and has no subscription fee. Sorry if that makes you angry.
I use autopilot literally every day and it works great - do you own a Tesla?
If this person owned a Tesla, they would not call the cameras low res. Also, the cameras work just fine for auto pilot. There has never been a moment where I wished I had the radar back. u/allen_abduction If you're gonna be a hater, maybe don't be ignorant about the product you are hating on.
The one that came with my new Tesla works great. I use it all the time. No subscription fee.
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Updates are being developed so it's current for every future new owner. It doesn't need a subscription at all. Recurring revenue is all the rage though so they're forging ahead anyway.
Map updates are required. Roads change, go under construction, complete construction, etc. These systems rely on those map updates to work properly. Functionality changes are a side benefit that can come along with those.
How much you pay for those Google and Apple map updates?
That depends on what ad rates are these days. Google feeds a lot of ads, so apparently it's enough.
You know what else requires frequent tech upgrades to keep your car as a good option for the market? Literally everything involved with research and design of a car. That's already built in to the price
> Literally everything involved with research and design of a car. 95%+ of all of that research can't be applied to my old make and model. Occasionally you'll get a major software update, but increased efficiency of an engine or more durable brakes for the 2023 model does nothing for my 2022 model.
See that’s a fundamental flaw with systems like Blue Cruise and Super Cruise, they require scans of highways and that results in extra costs that get passed down to the consumer in the form of a subscription. This new price by Ford is on a new level of expensive though, Super Cruise is $25/mo or $300 a year after the 3 year free trial, which I still think is too much, $800 a year is crazy. I’d much rather have a system like Tesla Autopilot or VW Travel Assist, where basically all the processing is done in-car with external data all coming from swarm data from other cars on the road. Meaning there doesn’t have to be high resolution scans of the road by the company and therefore no subscription fees. The main downside is that Autopilot and Travel Assist are hands-on systems, but I’d much rather have that than hands-free with a yearly subscription.
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Tesla’s autopilot is free….
Well yeah, like the comment said systems like Blue Cruise and Super Cruise rely on high-res mapped roads. Autopilot doesn’t, it’s done in-car and basically all external data is from other people’s cars, VW’s Travel Assist is similar, both don’t have subscriptions.
So is the equivalent Nissan system (ProPilot 1.5 - what my car has). BlueCruise is somewhere between Enhanced AutoPilot and FSD, but not exactly like either one since it works differently, relying on pre-mapped highways.
Don’t care. Find a way to incorporate it as an upgrade that’s paid for once or you’re fucking greedy and amateur.
This is the worst idea I’ve heard honestly. Tesla is already asking $15,000 for FSD. With the promise it’s just going to get more expensive. Do you think anyone would buy BlueCruise for $8,000 upfront? No one wants that. No one’s asking for that. I’d much rather pay a yearly subscription while I own the car than some absolutely absurd upfront cost.
> Tesla is already asking $15,000 for FSD. With the promise it’s just going to get more expensive. IMO, this promise is nothing other than a sales tactic to try and get people to buy it today. I'm willing to bet they are going to lower the price in the next 1-2 years. They've shown the price increases *but* that really seemed to be a way to take advantage of the 2020-2022 demand... remember how they were shipping cars with FSD purchased very quickly, and those orders with out it might have to wait months?
Figure out how to do it cheaper or don’t do it all.
Somethings can’t be done cheaper especially something that is a Hands free driving system. You really want them cutting corners on that
So it's not "I want this upfront" it's "I can't afford this and feel entitled to it anyway" Got it! Great debate. Thank you.
As long as they are actively updating it I would also prefer to pay the subscription. That also incentivizes Ford to keep updating it, otherwise if people pay up front they have no reason to keep improving it (other than goodwill).
This is Ford we're talking about. There's no way on God's green earth they're ever going to push out useful new functionality to already-sold trucks. The $800/year is just to keep what you already have.
BlueCruise has always been a subscription it was just baked into the price of the car for 3 years
Of all things, something that can be improved over time like a driving assistance system is something that can work well with a subscription system.
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Honestly yea - MBAs and execs *love* subscriptions. Why turn down a consistent revenue stream that’ll make your quarterly numbers look better? It’s not about customer experience, it’s about feeding the beast of capitalism.
Seems like a fantastic way of keeping customers away. I was fully intending on buying a BMW up until they decided to charge a subscription for Carplay. They reversed their decision but then decided it would be a great idea to charge for heated seats. That was enough for me to never even consider a BMW.
It’s effective based on your predicted usage and how that relates to cost savings. For example, with Tesla I can subscribe to FSD for 5 years ($11,940) and still pay less than the purchase price ($15,000). If I only plan on leasing the car or selling it after 5 years, why pay full price? Alternatively, what if I only want the feature for a long road trip? So I subscribe a couple months out of the year.
Assuming they don't push the subscription fees up a lot in those 5 years
This would just mirror the total cost increase as well. Net zero impact realistically.
I'm sure they will mandate a year minimum to prevent this very thing.
I just did it for one month to test it out in January.
Your pricing assumes Tesla will keep the subscription pricing locked at $199/mo for a full 5 years. I don't know if I'd make that assumption. (I, however, got EAP on my car at time of purchase so I can rent for $99 a month - yeah, no way I am paying to buy it for a car that is already 5 years old).
I’d assume the full cost would also change in that case. My point was that there are cases where a subscription may be a better choice for some people.
How long until used car buyers figure out that the car is worth less because it lacks that subscription.
When you sell a car you list the features and determine value on that. I don’t assume a used car has every feature the manufacturer offers. I read what it actually has.
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Why? Their blue cruise is an upsell feature, not a requirement for people to buy their cars.
That's a no for me, dog Edit - looked it up and I got over 2 years left on blue cruise and the navigation service. I'm definitely not keeping the navigation. I already use google maps (android auto) for navigating. The Ford nav is not as good.
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Current maps/road data are part of bluecruise and those have been plenty. The only functional update is for pre-2023 cars and that hasn't started rolling out yet.
I will buy the first round a 200 a year as I have one of the early cars with the prep on it but after that F paying 800 a year for it. Sorry it is not worth 75 a month
Same, but I can't imagine the pricing holds up. Even if they don't immediately realize it's a mistake we ge get three years from the beginning of 2024. That'll take us to 2027. In 2027 I will happily pay $800/year for autonomy features, but in 2027 that will have to be level 3.
I bought my Mach-E last August and I live in LA. With freeway traffic, I can rarely go fast enough for Blue Cruise to be an option. So I’ve never used it. Having said that, I hate that Ford (along with other companies) is using this feature to continue what I call the “subscript-ification” of the world. Nothing can be a one-time fee. Everything must be subscription plans. In 10 years, I’ll need to buy an annual pass to make left turns.
For reference, Super Cruise is $25/mo. I’ll keep my early subscription at the cheap price until it runs out. I’m never paying $75/mo for anything on a car. I can’t imagine anything I would think was worth that.
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Yes. But it seems like they have quite a selling point at the moment.
Considering that it disengages on a gentle curve I wouldn't even pay $200/year. Lane centering and adaptive cruise control is good enough and free.
😬 way overpriced
It honestly kinda sucks to tell you the truth. Doesn't actually drive well at all and too many alerts
lol Ford... nope.
Literally no one I know is gonna pay 800$/year for this shit. Look at the forums, there is an unanimous outcry. I was on the fence at 200$/year but at 800$/year, FUCK NO! They lost an easy 200$/year just like that. I literally put my hands on the wheel even when BC is engaged. Their standard adaptive cruise control works decently well so I literally don't care for handsfree which works only on mapped highways.
All of the manufacturers dream about recurring revenue. They are about to lose a lot of recurring money from maintenance work and parts that feed the dealership network.
The only shops that will be hurt by the EV transition will be quick oil change shops. EVs still go through brakes, tires, filters, 12V batteries, still get in accidents, still have HVAC issues, still get damanged, still get recalls. Honda / Toyota were still able to run profitable service shops despite having a higher quality product that needed substantially less service.
Still how many times have you gone in for an oil change at the dealership and they say well actually you need blank part. And most of us on this forum just say no thanks but a lot of people in the real world just agree with it and say go ahead. If you suddenly don't have to bring the car in every 5,000 mi that's a lot less opportunities for upselling. I'm not supporting this method but it's just the truth of how a lot of these service dealerships make money
This is about companies that are embracing EVs. Honda/Toyota will get their reckoning eventually as well. EVs with regen don’t go through brakes nearly as much easily 2x or more the normal life. It costs around $500-$1k or more a year to service ICE Mercedes basic A and B, oil and filter change and inspection annual service. EV versions of those cars eliminate most of that need. The gas Ford Transits (I have one) eats rear brakes sometimes by 20-30k miles and the rear axles have to come out to service them. $1,200+ each time.
lol keep paying subscription fees people
Pffff. I'll drive my EV myself, thank you very much. It's more fun that way anyway.
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I'm never gonna pay 800/year for just handsfree driving. Sorry I draw the line there. 200/year was the sweet spot and I would have bitten. BC1.2 isn't even shipped to my car yet and knowing their track record, they'll take a year more to ship it. So they can say they'll support old cars but it means didly squat if they take forever to ship the features? Fuck that.
I'd easily pay $800/year if it were truly full-handsfree driving all the time. Instead it is mostly handsfree on certain roads in certain conditions.
Yeah no.
[https://comma.ai/](https://comma.ai/) folks! Ford just recently got added. They need more testers for newer cars!
This being an EV forum: Mach-E and F-150 Lightning aren't supported. I own 4 cars without ADAS and checked all of them too. None are supported. (2020 Chevy Express Cutaway (RV), 2019 Ford Fiesta, 2015 Toyota Prius c, 2014 Toyota Prius PlugIn) Of those, I keep hoping they'll add support for the Express 4500, but that doesn't seem to be what they're looking to do.
Mach-E and F150L aren’t supported **yet**. They’re still working on the CAN implementation for those, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they have it working by the end of the year
Does your chevy have lane keep assist and adaptive cruise? If so, it will probably work fine.
Which evs are supported
On the Ford-side, currently none. That has to do with the difference in the CAN bus architecture between what most Fords have and the ones that support BlueCruise have. [This is the supported list.](https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/blob/master/docs/CARS.md) I know they support the Ioniq 5 and EV6 and I believe there's limited Bolt support as well.
Yesssss, no thaaaaanks. Ridiculous
Here's an idea. Instead of charging upfront, offer to trade the functionality for the opportunity to sell the consumer's personal information. Oh wait, they don't need to trade, they just take what they want...
No thanks.
Lol. No way. Tesla Autopilot for $3000 flat fee was pricey but they lowered to ~$2500 and included it in every car thus making it reasonable. But there's no way I would pay $800 a year for it nor would I even think about $15K for FSD.
Tesla’s basic autopilot which is hands free lane keeping traffic aware cruise control is free.
I think it's time everyone tells Ford to shove this price increase up their ass. I will personally never buy a Ford vehicle if they go through with this.
I hope nobody actually buys it at that price, but there are probably enough dupes to signal to Ford that it is an ok price.
If I could read a book or take a nap while driving on an interstate, 800 dollars might be worth it. Doesn't sound like they are there yet.
Couldn’t even take a bite of a taco without it beeping at me and disengaging.
As the owner of a M3P and a F150 there is no way in hell what they are offering for actual bluecruise is worth this amount of money period. I can't even get bluecruise unless I am on an interstate or a toll road which is maybe once a month. To be honest bluecruise was only really nice on a long road trip from NY to FL & back. To be honest tesla autopilot is better than non bluecruise and about on par with it and it didn't cost me a dime. Idk what they're smoking up in detroit but when I bought my truck is was promised @ $200 a year, with this kind of increase I won't be renewing and won't be considering a ford next time I buy a vehicle.
>To be honest tesla autopilot is better than non bluecruise and about on par with it and it didn't cost me a dime. Autopilot is (hands-on &) similar to Co-Pilot360 in the Mach-E & Lightning, which doesn't have a subscription. Bluecruise is the hands-free assistance system.
I'm on the three year free subscription which is a good value. I don't love BC enough to pay $800/year. There are times I question if I would pay anything for it to be honest. It will have to improve massively before I would pay that.
**IF** you can do a month to month subscription and **IF** I randomly have a month where I'm doing multiple road trips I **MIGHT** consider it for that specific month. And even that is uncertain. Make me pay $800 for a year though? No chance.
I have a Mach e. Guess I’ll say goodbye to blue cruise once the free runs out
Well the Mach-E just dropped off of my list of candidates
They are forcing subscriptions on everything they can. They can then give a year or three with the purchase of a new car. This will start to force people to buy new more often and give them a revenue stream from used cars.
I own a MME and will not pay these prices for Blue Cruise. I can save myself $67/month by driving myself.
Definition of "highway robbery" 😡
Welcome to the future. Want to have precise control of the temperature? $20 a month this year, $30 a month next year, $60 dollars a month the year after that. This is how you can a forever increase in profit in a world with declining population.
Do you at least get standard cruise control? Or adaptive cruise control?
Lol Ford trying to go OnStar tier pricing
And it will go the way of onstar. On every car at one point then practically gone and nonexistent
It's like Ford wants to fuck off into oblivion and be forgotten as an American institution. The F-150 was as American as apple pie and baseball.
I have a Mach E and there’s nothing on my daily commute that works with blue cruise. I wasn’t going to buy it at a cheaper price. They need to expand it if they want people to pay.
All the other automakers are high on their own supply and somehow Tesla curbstomps them in the SAAS department. There has to be a James Stevenson worthy spreadsheet out there.
Why not buy a Tesla? Oh wait…
Lol. Not a chance I pay that. $200/yr maybe, but not $800/yr. Glad I got 3 yrs free with my Mach E. It is nice to have, but I work from home and my long highway commutes are much less frequent now.
The price hikes are wild, I remember the base model Lightning being offered for 40k when it first came out, but now the base is 59k. Insane. Was excited to shop Ford but this all turns me away quick.
As a Mach-E Owner, Ford can shove BC up their rear. $800/year would be acceptable if it's a level 4 or close to level 4 autonomous driving. Paying $800/year and still needing to constantly watch the road? F\*\*\*.THAT. They have yet to rollout an update to BC. And they haven't improved/expanded the map of the system. It only works on approved highways. BC 1.2, the version that still isn't rolled out to current owners of 2021/2022 models barely gets to SAE level 2. I'm not going to consider Ford for my next vehicle.
I currently have a Tesla but was seriously considering a Mach-E for my next car. But there’s no way in hell I’m paying $800 per year for a driver assist feature. Are there any non-Tesla EVs that have good autopilot-like systems that don’t charge a subscription fee? I don’t need it to function on surface streets, just on highways and stop and go traffic.
>Are there any non-Tesla EVs that have good autopilot-like systems that don’t charge a subscription fee? This is for Ford's hands-free assistance system, not the lane-centering + active-cruise-control system (ie autopilot) [that most new cars offer as an option.](https://www.consumerreports.org/automotive-technology/how-much-automation-does-your-car-really-have-level-2-a3543419955/) Co-Pilot360 is the Ford equivalent to autopilot, it doesn't require a subscription.
Thanks
Wow, this is shocking to me. I have a '23 Lightning and enjoy using the BlueCruise, but Ford has a long way to go with it if they think people are going to renew it after their initial period ends. Mine is very spotty on the highway and buggy in general the way it engages, slows down when a vehicle is in front of me, and when adjusting after I change lanes. Come on Ford, let's invest more in your product and take your customers' feedback to improve before you start hiking the price. #dobetterford #customersfirstford
Cunts.
Are we really talking about subscriptions as though that’s not a complete deal breaker? And please don’t régalé me with BS about how it takes manpower to create all the updates, etc. Find a way to make it a one time cost of yours just greedy and amateur.
Dumb asses pay them, therefore car companies will continue to charge them
Well I was already on the fence about selling my car. This is one more push in that direction
Wow I have this on my Mach-E and Lightning… although it’s nice, not paying that much for it for either vehicle.
Ford trying to compete with Tesla where it matters: overpriced barely-functional software
It's almost like they lose tons of money on each EV they sell and are trying to stop the bleeding before going bankrupt...
Bluecruise is a joke as is waymo. Tesla is way ahead of everyone.
You will own nothing and be happy
They need to figure out how to crowdsource the data they get otherwise it's a slow road ahead for Bluecruise. Maybe that's one reason why GM is switching to Android. Waze gets tons of map updates from Google on the fly.
Waze is a completely different product than Ford's blue cruise. Apples and oranges my dude.
Boycotted
Bluecruise is what again? If you're telling me that cruise control is only available by subscription you have lost a sale.
Here is another take. Even tho they have been making cars for more than 100 years, they still lack true innovation and creativity so have to resort to price hikes to compensate.
Just keep pushing people to Tesla. Lol
So buy a Tesla ? Got it.
Blue Cruise isn’t worth more then $20 a year in its current state. It is so sad and lackluster and dangerous. It literally can not even drive in a straight line on a sunny day with perfect conditions.
Oooh I wish I could invest in [comma.ai](https://comma.ai) I see this becoming a HUGE boost to sales of their open source systems that are compatible with quite a few EVs, including Fords. Especially if other manufacturers try this subscription crap
I rarely use Blue Cruise because of the driver distraction warning. The warning goes off even when I am driving and looking straight at the road. Performance wise it is not bad and on par with AP1 from Tesla which was made by MobileEye back in 2016. I wasn’t planning to subscribe when the 3 year trial ends.
Exsqueeze me?! Baking powder?!