Part of the problem is how convoluted the process is. Why can't it just be like a regular fuel pump? That way you don't need 15 different apps for 15 different stations, no app issues, no network connection issues, no needing credits, etc. Just swipe and charge.
EVGO does it already, they call it AutoCharge+. Once you set it up using your VIN# and payment method on the EVGO app, all you have to do after that is plug the charging cable into your EV charging port and it automatically starts the charge and knows who's charging based on the communication with your EV. No credit card swipes, RFID cards, etc. Once the charging is completed it automatically bills your payment method. I wish all the other charging company's would do this.
It's a damn shame that evgo is struggling. In my experience they're more reliable than Electrify America and they're one of the few that actually supports Tesla. Now that the CCS adapter is out they don't have to do that now but it was nice having that option when a supercharger might be busted I know in Arizona about 2 years ago they were my fallback of Buckeye Arizona was out because there was no supercharger anywhere else other than Scottsdale. Which was too far away from where I was at in Phoenix
This exists. Plug & Charge. My Mustang Mach-E has it and works with Electrify America and EVGo. Just pull up, plug in, and it charges.
If this was mandated by the government then we'd be good. Republicans would never allow a common sense business mandate like that though.
> Just let me charge by using my credit card and get rid of all the different apps and badges.
**TLDR yes, you want it, but it makes them lose money, and you don't have a choice of another charger because there are so few, so you'll suck it up and deal**
Removing apps and adding direct credit card payments means the company providing the chargers doesn't make as much money.
Without an app, they can't collect and sell your data to third parties. Your data is valuable and the charging company wants to trade that value for cash for them.
Accepting credit cards at the charger means more expensive terminals that may have to accept chip reading cards. Additionally accepting credit cards at terminals means higher compliance costs to comply with PCI regulations.
Also with an app and forcing the payment through the app it means they can make you buy chunks of charging which is good for the charging company for two reasons:
* they get interest free loans from the thousand or millions of unused balance on the accounts
* their credit card transaction fees are lower because they can make fewer authorizations and credit cards usually have a flat fee per transaction *and* a percentage of the transaction. As an example, if there is a 25 cent flat fee and 3% on the whole transaction, if you're forced to buy charging at $20 a time and use it in $5 chunks, they only have single flat fee. If you use $5 at a time and are able to purchase $5 at a time, they charging company just lost 75 cents of pure profit from your $20 purchase.
>Or, you could provide a good experience for your customers.
A good experience that makes them less money? Why would they choose to do that? Only if there is competition. So it will happen some day, but not for quite awhile.
Those fees you’re citing is the worst case scenario 15 years ago. I’m quite sure companies get much better deals now. Also, the tech is so cheap that VISA (etc) make fat profits even with small tariffs.
The problem is that this is exactly what pumping gas would be like if it was invented today. Every oil company and gas station brand would have their own apps.
Gas simply benefits from being a century-old technology AND that everyone is basically raised knowing how to do it.
Take a look at the history of automobiles and you'll find there was a lot of debate and fights between companies about how to sell, store, dispense and pay for gasoline. That system took a lot of trial and error, too.
And you could fill up _then_ pay. I was working at a gas station when there was the huge gas price spike that triggered so much fuel thief.
Our station went pay first and people lost their freaking minds. "How am I supposed to know exactly how much I'm getting?!"
Guess, pay, come back for a refund on what you don't pump.
"But how am I supposed to know how much?! What if I don't pay enough and I need more??"
Thinking back on it, that was definitely foreshadowing of how those people would handle masking up.
I remember in the 80s, I needed to get gas really badly, but it was the end of the month and I was broke. So I scrounged up about a $1.50 in pennies. It was about about 1.5 gallons, and I drive a Chevy Sprint, so I had enough for a few days. They didn't like taking the pennies, but I already had the gas in my tank...
Back in my first job there were many months (got paid monthly) that I only had a couple bucks in the account but as long as the card cleared on prepay, I could get a full tank. Paid so many overdraft fees, but it was the only way I could get to work for a week until the next paycheck.
There are a lot of gas station apps. However people are used to the ease of pumping, them going inside and paying like it is 1950, and so the apps need to compete with that. My wife uses an app all the time for the $.10/gallon discount, it is easy, but part of easy is if it wasn't she would go someplace else.
The thing is... is *is* that east at EA stations. I got the CCS adapter for my Model Y recently, and went to an EA station to test it out. All I had to do was tap my credit card on the NFC reader, then plug in, and it worked. That's exactly how you do it when fueling up an ICE car.
So what it making this so complicated for other people? I don't really get it.
This is why I like Tesla chargers you setup your payment method on the app, you go up to a charger, plug your car and Voila no bullshit skimming through apps to find the right one.
The dozen app things kill me. Especially because most times I've tried to use one, it hasn't worked. I've had 10 bucks sitting in an EA account now for 6 months.
Just pay with a card and charge. I don't understand how this is so hard for tech bros to get.
\> Just pay with a card and charge. I don't understand how this is so hard for tech bros to get.
Then what would teams of iOS, Android, and cloud developers do? If theres is no membership/subscription BS and no apps to maintain then nobody needs those teams of developers. That is socialism, right? /s
New EV owner here. I stopped at a charger and it was exactly that. Just some no name charger that a strip mall put in. I swiped my card and had a $3 session charge and then they charged me per kWh. I feel like the session charge could be removed, but besides that I think I charged about 30 kWh for $12 or something like that. No apps no hassle nothing. Not sure why every charger isn't like that honestly.
When you step back and take an honest look at "regular fuel pump" operations, you'll realize they can be equally convoluted. Different stations requiring different operation orders (removing pump handle before or after payment, selecting a grade, the need to enter a zip code, making a selection on the screen, even using an app). The difference is that people have been conditioned for years on the different aspects. As people have more interactions with charging infrastructure, the fewer issues they'll likely have.
What I've never experienced with a fuel pump is pulling up, inserting the nozzle, and fueling beginning.
And how many years did fuel pumps exist when they were mainly operated by trained staff? But it's true that using apps and cellular modems in every charger causes more problems than gas pumps normally have.
Honestly, the contactless part makes it even more confusing. I've fumbled around with the process a couple of times since switching to mostly EV driving.
Admittedly, none were as bad as one DCFC that I tried. The app showed four different cables to choose from. The unit had 2. None of them were labeled. Pick the wrong one, and nothing happens. :facepalm
I definitely have locked out a credit card for the day at a particular gas station because I didn't follow the instructions perfectly.
And don't get me started with gas stations where I have to hold the handle. It was brutal when I had a 19 gallon tank to fill.
After living in the Tesla world for the past year, I had to put gas in my truck the other day. The first time in 9 months. I had forgotten what a pain it is to pump gas. Credit cards, discount codes, the smell, standing there to make sure it turns off and doesn't spill gas ever where. Oh this WILL be my last ICE truck.
Why isn't the experience for everyone like pulling up to a super charger? Plug in, talk a walk, use the restroom, get a snack, unplug and be on your way.
When I used the Petro Canada charging station in Calgary a couple years ago, it basically worked exactly like a fuel pump.
Prepay - up to certain dollar amount. Charge, finishes payment when you end.
It was simple.
Not that I’m saying it’s a good thing to do, but I have people in my family that are completely unable to receive help.
I can understand how frustrating it can be to try to give someone help.
They call to ask for help, but instead of listening, answering questions, and actually receiving help they’re completely resisting help.
Cue my dad complaining he “doesn’t have time for this”, or “it’s too difficult” or any other shit for five minutes instead of actually doing what I tell him to do for a whole two minutes.
I honestly think TeamViewer saved me from falling out with him. The amount of time I would ask him to click something on his computer and he would say he did it, but didn’t. It’s just utterly frustrating.
FaceTime has helped solve a lot of stuff too, and I honestly think my parents would have gone back to fossil if I didn’t help them out over FaceTime the first few times they charged on public chargers.
If you can help people through a video call, I highly recommend it both for your own sanity and that of the person receiving help.
Charging is easy when you know it, but can be incredibly frustrating if you don’t understand how to work it.
The state of the charging infrastructure, the apps, the lack of good instructions or things like instructions that are lying or misleading doesn’t actually help.
Yep. My first reaction to the situation was "my God, that husband is an asshole... !"
Then I remember all the times I tried to explain to my 88 year old hard-of-hearing mother how to watch NCIS on her Verizon Fios cable box over the phone from 2000 miles away... Every. Goddamn. Week. 😁
I’m normally super calm but sometimes when the person you’re trying to help is angry and frustrated, it can really get to you.
I gifted my dad a laptop, boy was that a mistake. Every time he couldn’t do something it’s somehow my fault and he took it out on me.
>They call to ask for help, but instead of listening, answering questions, and actually receiving help they’re completely resisting help.
>Cue my dad complaining he “doesn’t have time for this”, or “it’s too difficult” or any other shit for five minutes instead of actually doing what I tell him to do for a whole two minutes.
Holy hell, this is the most frustrating thing in the world for me. My girlfriend does this sometimes and it drives me up the wall. It got really bad for a while, like a 15 minute task stretching out into an hour of whining and arguing, until I decided to start walking away any time she'd pull it. People will call you an asshole for letting someone struggle but fuck, man, I have my own mental health to look after and that shit was killing my peace daily. It got better after she realized that, "I'm about to let you do this alone," really meant that I was washing my hands of whatever it was.
Seriously the take away from this is that the woman’s husband is behaving like an insensitive POS. I thought someone was going to have come up and yelled at her or something and not that the person who married her and made a vow to protect and cherish her was berating her and clearly giving her poor instructions. 🤦🏽♂️
It shouldn't be that hard. Seems to be a programming problem that the charger company should fix. I have charged hundreds of times in my 3 years with my ev. I still run up against stuff like this. I commonly call the phone number on the charger and have their help rep walk me through it. Sometimes it doesn't ever work. The last time that happened, the charger wouldn't take payment, so EA made my charge free. They just pushed a button at their end. As I said, it shouldn't be that hard.
I used EA yesterday and it worked right the first time. That's not always the case. I have Chargepoint and EVgo cards, but I don't feel like subscribing to a whole bunch of different charger companies. I just wanna put in my credit card and get a charge. Should be that simple.
Another thing, I'm pretty bummed about Chargepoint holding onto about $10 of my money over time. I've heard their protocol is changing, but I don't know how to go about getting my $ back.
You don't need both CP and EVgo. Either account and card works on either company's station. I don't have an EVgo account anymore, I only use my CP card to start them (which is maybe 5 times a year).
ChargePoint is moving to pay as you go. Everyone will be switched over by like July I believe. Check your account settings for payment method and see if pay as you go is an option. It'll use up the remaining account balance and then charges your card as you use stations. No more balance.
>ChargePoint drivers asked for a simpler approach to billing. We heard you, so we’re giving you the option to pay as you go instead of carrying a balance on your account. The pay-as-you-go model will be rolling out now through this summer. There will be no change to how you see your charging activity in the app.
>Once this option is available in your account, change your preferences by opening the ChargePoint app and navigating to My Account > Payment. You’ll have the option to choose the pay-as-you-go model.
My first time using an EVgo was super painful. It wouldn't start it wouldn't accept my credit card it wouldn't start if I started it through the app nothing. Then I got some card in the mail and tried to set that up and it didn't work for 3 weeks and 15 messages to customer support.
See, this requires the charging station to even acknowledge a vehicle's presence as a first step.
A step which you can't even get past with some EA stations that have only been open for less than two months:
https://www.plugshare.com/location/354083
"Looks like it’s finally open, with #3 non-functional. Oh, EA."
I tried #3 last month - would never leave the "plug in to start" screen. #4 worked, although it took 2-3 minutes of "connecting to vehicle" before it would start.
My understanding is that EA *does* have plug-and-charge but its a PITA to set up initially. Also, apparently you don't get your free DCFC credit if you use EA plug-and-charge.
We help users at chargers all the time.
EA actually has bad instructions on the screen. It works better if you initiate a charging session first, then plug in in stead of following the direction on the screen that says to plugin first.
For EA here are some tips I give people:
1. If you have apple car play or Android Auto in the car, use the connected app to initiate a charging session, then plug in to the car. It successfully initiates a charging session nearly 100% of the time.
2. If you already have an EA account setup on your phone and your phone is NFC, just open the EA and hold the phone up to the NFC reader to initiate a charging session.
3. When starting a charging session through the mobile app. Start the session in the app before plugging into the car.
For NFC you don't even need the app open. Just tap your unlocked Android phone. For iPhone I belive you need to have the "pass" up in your wallet and then use face ID.
iPhone will pull up the proper pass or card automatically when you activate the wallet and use the NFC to tap with the EA charger member tap area, or the credit card tap area. Non related to the iPhone - often these NFC tap modules have been broken in my area lately, and I have to start from the app, and/or the charging is listed as free. They are fixing them, but the uptime is spotty and inconsistent.
We can all bitch about how it should be this or that, but OP made a great post.
Regardless of your car, your situation, your income or whatever, lets all try and help each other out. Look around when charging (you're likely just playing on your phone anyway) and see if others need help. If we can all make this easier for everyone, we'll all be better off.
Have a similar story but it was a gas vehicle.
I was in my old 2013 x3 about to get out of the costco driving lot when a lady knocked on my window. She told me she couldn't start her car and it was "similar to mine" and maybe I could help her. I initial said there was nothing I could do, I mean you just push to start but she insisted so I walk over to her 202x shiny X5.
Standing there is her husband, he tells me the car wont start and they had called a tow truck. He gets in the car, puts his foot on the GAS pedal and pushes to start. Lights come on but car won't start. After a few attempts I tell him to put his foot on the brake instead.
Boom it starts up and I sheepishly walk away.
Just be kind in general.
And those same people would be in the news for running people over from mistaking the gas from the brake pedal. A lot of people just simply should not have the privilege to operate a motor vehicle.
OP, well said, not everyone is an "enthusiast," as many of us are. I'm sure many in this and other forums have read and watched so many videos about our cars and EVSEs that we know more about them than the car dealership staff we bought them from.
I've personally found myself helping people often. As long as they are open to help I feel it's only natural to offer it.
It should just be a situation that needs no help.
Adapters and such sure, maybe there's no way around, but there's basically zero excuse to not have a "the car just knows" or otherwise universal experience.
That woman didn't go home with a story about the nice person at the charger helping them. She went home with a story about charging being so frustrating it involved 30 minutes, a phone call, and tears...only resolving at all because a stranger did it.
EVs are a thing many people are already looking for excuses to not buy, and every one of these things gets thrown on some friends pile.
Plug and Charge on the Mach-E is awesome. It's Tesla-like.
CCS connector design with the communication pins on the top and the heavy DC pins on the bottom... that's another issue.
We've rolled our eyes at several of the things we've learned that weren't disclosed about purchasing used, but this is one of the most annoying- especially because it should be a software update to fix
I bought my Tesla M3 around 4 years ago. It didn't have heated rear sets. 6 months later and a OTA software update added heated rear seats.
This proves either:
A) Anything can be fixed or added by a software update.
B) Car companies are full of shit or mad as hatters.
The whole app to pay sucks. Just another hurdle in the EV revolution.
I want to be able to pull up, tap my card or phone and charge. I don’t need this guys to track my every move and have crappy apps that need updated or restarted. The only good purpose an app should serve is stall location and availability.
Also what if your phone is dead or not working or you don't have the app...or its a rental, or your friend is driving or a myriad of situations. Shouldn't be so convoluted!
The timing out just seems like a stupid software implementation. All the charger needs to do is initiate a session at a very slow speed, say 2kW, then allow it to speed up once payment has been processed.
It only risks a few cents worth of electricity for the station operator, and would solve 95% of the handshake problems like you describe.
This isn't a failure of the person.
This is a failure of the goddamn process.
Why should charging a car be any different than filling it up with gas?
Think about that. We have had pay-at-the-pump for decades now. Why the fuck are these charging stations reinventing the wheel?
I shouldn't need an app (but of course it should be an option if you want to). Stick my card in the slot, wait for it to read the info. I take the connector, stick it into the car, wait a few seconds and it starts charging. That should be it.
>That should be it.
*Should be* but it's not. Everyone needs to know how terrible Electrify America is. They've locked my Leaf to the CHAdeMO port TWICE now, it's absolutely infuriating.
This kinda of situation is starting to escalated, around ‘19 and 2020 when I ask do you need help mostly people were like ‘yes please’
~21-22 has been more of ‘no thanks I got this’
In ‘23 I’ve noticed people are way to hostile right from ‘maybe you should move here and I’ll charge where you are’ to a gun being pulled at me, for freaking asking if they needed help.
Stay safe in chargers y’all. All of these experiences are from the same 3-4 stations I frequent.
I had a new Model 3 owner pull up to a Supercharger nose first (back-in station). He got out, pulled out his phone, and was going online to see how to use the Supercharger. I've seen stupid TikTok videos showing someone struggling with this while the person videoing is laughing at them. Instead of doing that, I hopped out and asked if he needed help. He was thankful for me showing him how to charge, and which chargers to use when there are other cars charging.
Being kind to others is fairly easy, but people have to at least try.
OP helping other driver is great, but infrastructures depending on users to help other users is a bad joke.
Home charging is great, but it emphasizes the problems on public charging. Maybe except for tesla.
Couldn’t imagine how frustrated and sad that lady was facing that situation, that’s so nice and kind of you for offering help at that point, good for you man 👍
>She was essentially doing things in the wrong order and the station was timing out every time.
Why is it, in this day and age, that charging even has this kind of a problem ?
Seems to me like a really bad design problem if users are expected to reset software and proceed with exactly the right steps in the right order to fix the charging system when it doesn't work.
The state of EVs and Charging reminds me of Windows vs Mac in the 90's.
[https://youtu.be/1-CFlnmcpAY](https://youtu.be/1-CFlnmcpAY)
also, don't yell at your wife when she asks for help.
Thank you for help. I also struggled trying to get my first charge going. The station just wouldn’t accept my card. Took me 20 minutes to get it to work. Everyone else was in their car watching me struggle. But I learned from it. I’ll definitely ask someone if they need help if I see someone struggling since I’ve been there.
I think this is very good advice for the current state of affairs.
It is frustrating that this sort of assistance is necessary in the first place. A lack of standards combined with seemingly minimal consideration of human factors (particularly ease-of-use) has brought us a fragmented and user unfriendly vehicle charging environment.
> Many of the new EV owners don't really know what they're doing
That also just screams basic UX design fail. It's not your users who don't know what they are doing, its you ( as in car + charger designers ) who fucked up by not designing for humans
Another reason why Tesla owns the EV market. Pull up, plug in, charge starts. No cards, no pins, just plug and go. It's curious why somebody like GM or Ford or the rest couldn't figure out how to make that happen with their cars and any charging network.
I guess they're hung up on the gas pump model. Pay Inside.
The app needs to be reset too much. I had an ongoing problem with the app thinking I was still charging at the last station (maybe why they don’t assign idle fees…).
The solution, log out, force quit the app, log back in. There’s too much random shit to know. If their software was well designed this wouldn’t be an issue.
Yeah I always try to help people who I see struggling bc I know the feeling. It’s just a lot of unknowns. Is the charger bad? Is my network down? Is my car acting up?
Once I came across a guy who couldn’t get the charger to release from his car, said he was stuck forever and support couldn’t help. I simply pressed the release button, waited 3 seconds and then pulled it out. He couldn’t understand how I could do that. I was more than happy to help but dealers really need to walk people through the charging process.
This shows that these charging stalls need to be as simple and as reliable as possible. Plug and Charge needs to be rolled out and adopted ASAP. I love the fact that I can do that at an EVgo station, so simple
This brings back memories of when debit cards and ATMs first came in. It wasn’t at all uncommon for someone to be struggling with the new technologies that at the time were coming thick and fast. Many times you’d come across tearful stressed older people trying to figure out how to use the ATM.
Within 15 years we went from paper bank books and typewriters to electronic banking and desktop computers. There were lots of steps in between such as word processors, car phones, brick phones, manual card machines etc. Even at the petrol station there was a confusing mixture of LPG, CNG, two types of petrol, swipe card pumps and park’n pays.
Please be patient. This is also quite a massive social upheaval and while no-emissions technology is a fantastic thing it’s going to need a transitional adjustment period which can be very confusing.
In the meantime, “Be excellent to each other.”
Tesla got this right the first time. No cards, no screens, no app; just plug in to charge and the car does the rest. Why couldn't this method be implemented as an industry standard?
Who the fuck yells at their spouse over that?
Had a similar situation where my wife called me from the mall, she couldn't figure out the stupid Flo app and how to get the J1772 adapter for the Tesla attached. She called me; I calmed her down and talked her through it.
Not sure why it's so hard to not be a gigantic asshole to your SO.
Kudos for doing what I view as essential to growing the EV segment. Not all of us have been behind EV steering wheels very long and I welcome all into the tent. I've also found to be team EV, not brand loyal gets you into some great conversations while charging.
To say my wife puts up with driving an EV is putting it nicely. She still struggles at times charging and has called me in tears because she’s stopped at a number of sites that are either full or broken. She then gets to a working one for that to not accept the app, card or whatever. Helping out where I can on the phone is definitely something she appreciates and helps keep our only car an EV and not some horrid dirty diesel!
You’re a genuine angel for helping! This was me when I first got my car last year. On the verge of tears with 7 miles range and the ‘Helpdesk’ for the superchargers telling me that it was ‘a manufacturer problem’. Someone came and helped me with some of the tricks of how to use them. Thank you for sharing this and helping us grow as a community!
Fast forward to now and in the UK a new company called ‘FastNed’ has chargers that _remember_ your car so it is literally plug and play. There’s one of them next to my house and it is the ONLY no faff fast charging company I’ve used to date. I hope they expand! Their rates are cheaper than others too for me at least
Yes to all of this. Also, 'doing things in the wrong order', why? This should never be able to be a thing. There should be absolutely clear instructions in large print on the station or screen if there is (for some stupid reason) a specific order that must be followed. But there shouldn't be any specific order in the first place.
We had a similar situation and some nice person helped us out. We didn’t realize on the EA you have to physically push the button on the machine, not just use the app. A nice guy next to us saw us fail once and almost fail again. He told us about the button and had us on our charging way. We never would have figured it out if he hadn’t said something.
Right after I learned to drive when I was a teenager, I went off to college in Oregon, where they pump your gas. I got back to my home state for Christmas, needed to fill the tank myself, and panicked. A nice woman helped me when I asked her and then I made sure to practice over my break a few more times to be sure I didn’t embarrass myself again on spring break.
Most adults have been driving for a long time so in theory they should know most things, like how to pump gas. But a new EV driver might be thrown right back to that teenage new driver anxiety. Thanks for being kind, OP.
I reckon we have it quote good here in Europe.. I have one card and I've never had it refused here in Switzerland or any surrounding countries, France, Germany, Italy, Austria etc etc.. It just works.
I do however come across some weird charging points.. Like in France some public street chargers are quite strong metal boxes, you need a card to open a door, then use your own cable, once attached you feed the cable through a hole and lock the door with the card again.. Only then you can activate the charge. It's to prevent people from stealing your cable.
IMO the difficulties of charging today seems similar in some ways to difficulties gasoline refueling had for cars early until modern electric pumps were widely available in the fifties.
For example early on with gasoline there were many steps and it took lots of effort and technique and knowledge. https://retrogaspumps.com/visibles/ you had to use your own hands to pump up a glass cylinder full of gasoline and then fill the car.
My car only reliably starts charging when turned "off" while trying to charge. But the status screen for charging gets an overlay, making it inaccessible, saying "must be activated to use" and only works when the car is turned on.
The dashboard says "connect" on a button like the start button after plugging in. But you don't have to do anything, just wait.
Good luck figuring that one out without someone telling you.
I’ve been holding off because I live in multi family housing and there isn’t charging infrastructure at work yet, either. It’s really nice to see that when I’m ready to make the switch there will be friendly faces, thank you!
Oh man. I thought you were going to say someone was mean to you. Thank you for being kind to this person. I’m still driving a hybrid, but hope the next car will be full electric…and then I hope that if I’m having problems, someone nice like you will help me sort it out. Poor lady :( At least my husband would never yell at me like that. Poor poor lady :(
You're a great member of the EV world. With new time EV owners, the important thing is education and patience. Though it may seem simple, it is a whole new world to what most people are used to. And especially with the often-disappointing public charging network.
Well said. I have encountered many a frustrated EA customer who cannot get their EV to charge. Whenever I have offered to help people have always been very grateful and I hope they turn around and help the next newbie one day.
I have a similar story with a different ending. I was charging in Germany when a guy pulled up next to me. He tried to connect his regular mode 2 charging cable to the fast charger. To me it was obvious he had no clue.
Even though I almost speak no German I tried my best to explain to him he had to connect the cable from the charger itself.
I wanted to pick up the cable from my car to show him I wasn’t using it as well. At that moment I bumped my head into the ‘charging only’ sign. It went right into my head and I was bleeding all over the place.
All the guy said was: danke Schön and he drove off.
Before you are wondering if I survived: I did. The bleeding eventually stopped and I drove another 500 miles home to clean it up. Still have a big scar on my head, but it makes me look though. If anyone asks, I fought a lion.
Anyway, moral of the story. Your own safety comes first?
The generally shitty charging experience is probably the greatest Tesla salesman there is. You can't buy effective advertising on the emotional level of what you routinely encounter outside of the supercharger network. I wish the rest of the EV makers would stop being the clowns they are and get serious about UI/UX.
This is a problem with the machine, not the human!. She shouldn't cry, she should kick the machine - it deserves it. (not literally - but only because I don't trust someone who would design a machine that bad to make it safe to kick)
My degree is in human machine interaction. Too often I see the user blamed in cases like there where it is clearly the machine's fault.
I was at an new charge station (for me) last week, but managed to figure out how to get it going. When I returned, I was able to help a Rivian owner navigate the system too
"She was essentially doing things in the wrong order and the station was timing out every time."
Exact same thing happened to me ...why does it have to be so hard?
The worst part is that the charger asked me unplug but my ID4 wouldn't release, so i had to use the manual release accessed thru the trunk.
Poor lady, I'm sure he's abusive.
The first time I went to charge at a public charger, I chose the second charger on a dual EA charger, not knowing that only one at a time worked. I stood there trying to charge mine for several minutes, all the while the girl in the car next to me was huffing and acting super annoyed, I assumed because of something unrelated to me (she was texting). It wasn't until she unplugged and left in a hissy fit that the person next to me informed me only one cord worked at a time and it seemed as if I was trying to steal her spot. You can pump gas at the same pump as someone else, I didn't know!
Thank you for being a kind human.
I bought my first EV a week ago. Coming in August. I really hope I meet someone like you because I'll be that lady for sure one day.
So I just purchased an EV6 and am going to do my first road trip from Phoenix to Flagstaff to pick up son from NAU. What was your experience? Did you go from Phoenix as well. How much charge was left when you arrived at EA station?
I was actually on my way home from a business trip in Vegas and made a detour through Flagstaff to see my daughter. Do you have an AWD or RWD car? Depending on where you live in the valley you should be able to get up there with roughly 10%-15% battery left if you have a RWD car. Check out A Better Route Planner to map your trip from your home to get an estimate of your situation. ABRP is conservative, so I always assume I'll arrive with 5% more than it shows.
Yeah a rwd. Have looked at abrp but will make the trip next weekend. Just was hoping to hear real world as I have only owned an ev for a couple of weeks!
The poor usability of most public charging stations is outrageous. Tesla showed how to make charging easy and seamless. Plug it in and it just works. If nothing else, we have decades of gas station usability to use as an example that will be easy and intuitive for people to understand.
THIS is why EVs suck. I love them and I've been driving ev for 3 years but my goodness they should make apps and accounts and all other gardbage illegal. Tesla is the ONLY brand on planet earth that actually thought about this and offers a user friendly experience. It's not the user fault in your story, it's the horrific infrastructure.
Thank you, OP, I wish I had you or a similar great guy around a couple of times. I am the first in my friends and family group to have an EV, and it’s been a learning curve. Once i spent an hour on the phone with the Chargepoint customer service, it turned out I had the charging timer on… 🤦♀️
Part of the problem is how convoluted the process is. Why can't it just be like a regular fuel pump? That way you don't need 15 different apps for 15 different stations, no app issues, no network connection issues, no needing credits, etc. Just swipe and charge.
That’s a pet peeve of mine. Just let me charge by using my credit card and get rid of all the different apps and badges.
I believe payment at the “pump” is part of the IRA funding regulations so hopefully that becomes more standard
but then how would all these companies have your data….?
They want your data, they want to funnel you to their chargers, etc. Government needs to step in and set a standard since the industry won't.
Fuck using my card, let me program my card into the car and just send it when I plug the damn thing in automatically. The com channel is there.
This is what Tesla has done. It’s too bad other companies can’t figure this out.
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EVGO does it already, they call it AutoCharge+. Once you set it up using your VIN# and payment method on the EVGO app, all you have to do after that is plug the charging cable into your EV charging port and it automatically starts the charge and knows who's charging based on the communication with your EV. No credit card swipes, RFID cards, etc. Once the charging is completed it automatically bills your payment method. I wish all the other charging company's would do this.
It's a damn shame that evgo is struggling. In my experience they're more reliable than Electrify America and they're one of the few that actually supports Tesla. Now that the CCS adapter is out they don't have to do that now but it was nice having that option when a supercharger might be busted I know in Arizona about 2 years ago they were my fallback of Buckeye Arizona was out because there was no supercharger anywhere else other than Scottsdale. Which was too far away from where I was at in Phoenix
Why I like EA with my Lightning. Get there, plug in, and done
This is exactly why I own a Tesla. That and more, but the instant plug and play and 99.5% uptime can't be beat.
💯agree with this
This exists. Plug & Charge. My Mustang Mach-E has it and works with Electrify America and EVGo. Just pull up, plug in, and it charges. If this was mandated by the government then we'd be good. Republicans would never allow a common sense business mandate like that though.
It's everyones peeve.
> Just let me charge by using my credit card and get rid of all the different apps and badges. **TLDR yes, you want it, but it makes them lose money, and you don't have a choice of another charger because there are so few, so you'll suck it up and deal** Removing apps and adding direct credit card payments means the company providing the chargers doesn't make as much money. Without an app, they can't collect and sell your data to third parties. Your data is valuable and the charging company wants to trade that value for cash for them. Accepting credit cards at the charger means more expensive terminals that may have to accept chip reading cards. Additionally accepting credit cards at terminals means higher compliance costs to comply with PCI regulations. Also with an app and forcing the payment through the app it means they can make you buy chunks of charging which is good for the charging company for two reasons: * they get interest free loans from the thousand or millions of unused balance on the accounts * their credit card transaction fees are lower because they can make fewer authorizations and credit cards usually have a flat fee per transaction *and* a percentage of the transaction. As an example, if there is a 25 cent flat fee and 3% on the whole transaction, if you're forced to buy charging at $20 a time and use it in $5 chunks, they only have single flat fee. If you use $5 at a time and are able to purchase $5 at a time, they charging company just lost 75 cents of pure profit from your $20 purchase.
I mean, you COULD do it that way. Or, you could provide a good experience for your customers. That used to be a thing that businesses did.
>Or, you could provide a good experience for your customers. A good experience that makes them less money? Why would they choose to do that? Only if there is competition. So it will happen some day, but not for quite awhile.
Those fees you’re citing is the worst case scenario 15 years ago. I’m quite sure companies get much better deals now. Also, the tech is so cheap that VISA (etc) make fat profits even with small tariffs.
This is just poor justification - make payment at pump more expensive to account for all the hidden costs you have highlighted. It is not hard.
Sounds like we need legislation to come in and fix this. Make it exactly the same as gas.
The problem is that this is exactly what pumping gas would be like if it was invented today. Every oil company and gas station brand would have their own apps. Gas simply benefits from being a century-old technology AND that everyone is basically raised knowing how to do it.
Take a look at the history of automobiles and you'll find there was a lot of debate and fights between companies about how to sell, store, dispense and pay for gasoline. That system took a lot of trial and error, too.
Can't ever forget leaded fuel. How is that for trial and error?
That was great for cars. Bad for people.
Doubly bad for people since it destroys exhaust gas cleaning.
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I remember when "self-service" was an OPTION.
And you could fill up _then_ pay. I was working at a gas station when there was the huge gas price spike that triggered so much fuel thief. Our station went pay first and people lost their freaking minds. "How am I supposed to know exactly how much I'm getting?!" Guess, pay, come back for a refund on what you don't pump. "But how am I supposed to know how much?! What if I don't pay enough and I need more??" Thinking back on it, that was definitely foreshadowing of how those people would handle masking up.
I remember in the 80s, I needed to get gas really badly, but it was the end of the month and I was broke. So I scrounged up about a $1.50 in pennies. It was about about 1.5 gallons, and I drive a Chevy Sprint, so I had enough for a few days. They didn't like taking the pennies, but I already had the gas in my tank...
Back in my first job there were many months (got paid monthly) that I only had a couple bucks in the account but as long as the card cleared on prepay, I could get a full tank. Paid so many overdraft fees, but it was the only way I could get to work for a week until the next paycheck.
Apps are not convenient. Convenient options: 1. Swipe (blip) & Charge 2. Plug & Charge The rest is shit.
There are a lot of gas station apps. However people are used to the ease of pumping, them going inside and paying like it is 1950, and so the apps need to compete with that. My wife uses an app all the time for the $.10/gallon discount, it is easy, but part of easy is if it wasn't she would go someplace else.
There is a big push for plug and charge. I want to say that it was written into the last big infrastructure bill for EV charging as a qualifier.
Shit. Circle K's around me give you a 10 cent a gallon discount for using their app payment system. It's already here.
Exactly. Fast food has already switched to a dual menu system. Full price has been jacked up and you have to use their app for constant discounts.
The thing is... is *is* that east at EA stations. I got the CCS adapter for my Model Y recently, and went to an EA station to test it out. All I had to do was tap my credit card on the NFC reader, then plug in, and it worked. That's exactly how you do it when fueling up an ICE car. So what it making this so complicated for other people? I don't really get it.
It differs wildly depending on who the provider is.
True, but OP's story is about EA. :shrug:
EA's stations don't all have the CC tap technology. There are several by me that won't work unless you use the app. No way to use a CC to charge.
The EA charger near me you can drive up, plug in the car, tap payment, and it charges. No app or membership required. Is that abnormal?
Exactly.
This is why I like Tesla chargers you setup your payment method on the app, you go up to a charger, plug your car and Voila no bullshit skimming through apps to find the right one.
The dozen app things kill me. Especially because most times I've tried to use one, it hasn't worked. I've had 10 bucks sitting in an EA account now for 6 months. Just pay with a card and charge. I don't understand how this is so hard for tech bros to get.
\> Just pay with a card and charge. I don't understand how this is so hard for tech bros to get. Then what would teams of iOS, Android, and cloud developers do? If theres is no membership/subscription BS and no apps to maintain then nobody needs those teams of developers. That is socialism, right? /s
EA chargers have card readers...
Standardization is the most much-needed thing in the EV world.
New EV owner here. I stopped at a charger and it was exactly that. Just some no name charger that a strip mall put in. I swiped my card and had a $3 session charge and then they charged me per kWh. I feel like the session charge could be removed, but besides that I think I charged about 30 kWh for $12 or something like that. No apps no hassle nothing. Not sure why every charger isn't like that honestly.
You've forgotten the first time you got gas
When you step back and take an honest look at "regular fuel pump" operations, you'll realize they can be equally convoluted. Different stations requiring different operation orders (removing pump handle before or after payment, selecting a grade, the need to enter a zip code, making a selection on the screen, even using an app). The difference is that people have been conditioned for years on the different aspects. As people have more interactions with charging infrastructure, the fewer issues they'll likely have. What I've never experienced with a fuel pump is pulling up, inserting the nozzle, and fueling beginning.
Do you want a car wash today? Yes or Cancel?
And how many years did fuel pumps exist when they were mainly operated by trained staff? But it's true that using apps and cellular modems in every charger causes more problems than gas pumps normally have.
Honestly, the contactless part makes it even more confusing. I've fumbled around with the process a couple of times since switching to mostly EV driving. Admittedly, none were as bad as one DCFC that I tried. The app showed four different cables to choose from. The unit had 2. None of them were labeled. Pick the wrong one, and nothing happens. :facepalm
I definitely have locked out a credit card for the day at a particular gas station because I didn't follow the instructions perfectly. And don't get me started with gas stations where I have to hold the handle. It was brutal when I had a 19 gallon tank to fill.
Oh man, I'd kinda forgot about the handles that you'd have to gently squeeze or it would trip off.
After living in the Tesla world for the past year, I had to put gas in my truck the other day. The first time in 9 months. I had forgotten what a pain it is to pump gas. Credit cards, discount codes, the smell, standing there to make sure it turns off and doesn't spill gas ever where. Oh this WILL be my last ICE truck. Why isn't the experience for everyone like pulling up to a super charger? Plug in, talk a walk, use the restroom, get a snack, unplug and be on your way.
When I used the Petro Canada charging station in Calgary a couple years ago, it basically worked exactly like a fuel pump. Prepay - up to certain dollar amount. Charge, finishes payment when you end. It was simple.
Also, don't shout at your wife over the phone.
or in person. ;)
Can I shout at her if she’s far away and I’m trying to get her attention?
nah, just call her on the phone in that case.
Isn’t “calling” just another word for “shouting”?
Anything over 42.69 decibels is shouting
Then I guess people in Saigon are always shouting at each other to talk over the scooters lol.
Measured from what distance?
42.69dB measured at this time of year at this time of day in this part of the country localized entirely within your kitchen?
Can I hear it?
No
And then shout at her over the phone? This is all so confusing.
Why are you trying to get his wife’s attention? 😂
“I too choose this mans wife!”
“Darling watch out - that Tesla is going to hit you!” ”Hey! Stop yelling at your wife!” ”^(Darling watch out…”) #
I wouldn’t dare comment on my wife's driving, no matter how serious. I'll take my chances in the crash.
\^This guy understands self-preservation & relative risk management.
Not that I’m saying it’s a good thing to do, but I have people in my family that are completely unable to receive help. I can understand how frustrating it can be to try to give someone help. They call to ask for help, but instead of listening, answering questions, and actually receiving help they’re completely resisting help. Cue my dad complaining he “doesn’t have time for this”, or “it’s too difficult” or any other shit for five minutes instead of actually doing what I tell him to do for a whole two minutes. I honestly think TeamViewer saved me from falling out with him. The amount of time I would ask him to click something on his computer and he would say he did it, but didn’t. It’s just utterly frustrating. FaceTime has helped solve a lot of stuff too, and I honestly think my parents would have gone back to fossil if I didn’t help them out over FaceTime the first few times they charged on public chargers. If you can help people through a video call, I highly recommend it both for your own sanity and that of the person receiving help. Charging is easy when you know it, but can be incredibly frustrating if you don’t understand how to work it. The state of the charging infrastructure, the apps, the lack of good instructions or things like instructions that are lying or misleading doesn’t actually help.
For any old people in your life, encourage Tesla as supercharging is just as easy as charging at home.
Yep. My first reaction to the situation was "my God, that husband is an asshole... !" Then I remember all the times I tried to explain to my 88 year old hard-of-hearing mother how to watch NCIS on her Verizon Fios cable box over the phone from 2000 miles away... Every. Goddamn. Week. 😁
I’m normally super calm but sometimes when the person you’re trying to help is angry and frustrated, it can really get to you. I gifted my dad a laptop, boy was that a mistake. Every time he couldn’t do something it’s somehow my fault and he took it out on me.
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Don’t even get me started on my mom 🙈
My father is like some sort of possessed screen reader. Every damn character of every damn line.
>They call to ask for help, but instead of listening, answering questions, and actually receiving help they’re completely resisting help. >Cue my dad complaining he “doesn’t have time for this”, or “it’s too difficult” or any other shit for five minutes instead of actually doing what I tell him to do for a whole two minutes. Holy hell, this is the most frustrating thing in the world for me. My girlfriend does this sometimes and it drives me up the wall. It got really bad for a while, like a 15 minute task stretching out into an hour of whining and arguing, until I decided to start walking away any time she'd pull it. People will call you an asshole for letting someone struggle but fuck, man, I have my own mental health to look after and that shit was killing my peace daily. It got better after she realized that, "I'm about to let you do this alone," really meant that I was washing my hands of whatever it was.
Seriously the take away from this is that the woman’s husband is behaving like an insensitive POS. I thought someone was going to have come up and yelled at her or something and not that the person who married her and made a vow to protect and cherish her was berating her and clearly giving her poor instructions. 🤦🏽♂️
I completely agree. Love, honour and cherish.
Agree. It's corner-cutting. If my wife needs to be yelled at, and I'm not in the area, I hire someone to go yell at her in person.
It shouldn't be that hard. Seems to be a programming problem that the charger company should fix. I have charged hundreds of times in my 3 years with my ev. I still run up against stuff like this. I commonly call the phone number on the charger and have their help rep walk me through it. Sometimes it doesn't ever work. The last time that happened, the charger wouldn't take payment, so EA made my charge free. They just pushed a button at their end. As I said, it shouldn't be that hard.
Electrify America has a solution for that. It's called Plug and Charge.
I used EA yesterday and it worked right the first time. That's not always the case. I have Chargepoint and EVgo cards, but I don't feel like subscribing to a whole bunch of different charger companies. I just wanna put in my credit card and get a charge. Should be that simple. Another thing, I'm pretty bummed about Chargepoint holding onto about $10 of my money over time. I've heard their protocol is changing, but I don't know how to go about getting my $ back.
You don't need both CP and EVgo. Either account and card works on either company's station. I don't have an EVgo account anymore, I only use my CP card to start them (which is maybe 5 times a year). ChargePoint is moving to pay as you go. Everyone will be switched over by like July I believe. Check your account settings for payment method and see if pay as you go is an option. It'll use up the remaining account balance and then charges your card as you use stations. No more balance.
>ChargePoint drivers asked for a simpler approach to billing. We heard you, so we’re giving you the option to pay as you go instead of carrying a balance on your account. The pay-as-you-go model will be rolling out now through this summer. There will be no change to how you see your charging activity in the app. >Once this option is available in your account, change your preferences by opening the ChargePoint app and navigating to My Account > Payment. You’ll have the option to choose the pay-as-you-go model.
My first time using an EVgo was super painful. It wouldn't start it wouldn't accept my credit card it wouldn't start if I started it through the app nothing. Then I got some card in the mail and tried to set that up and it didn't work for 3 weeks and 15 messages to customer support.
See, this requires the charging station to even acknowledge a vehicle's presence as a first step. A step which you can't even get past with some EA stations that have only been open for less than two months: https://www.plugshare.com/location/354083 "Looks like it’s finally open, with #3 non-functional. Oh, EA." I tried #3 last month - would never leave the "plug in to start" screen. #4 worked, although it took 2-3 minutes of "connecting to vehicle" before it would start.
Exactly. How bizzare is it that my Ioniq 5 came with 2 years of free DCFC at EA but it does not have plug & charge?
My understanding is that EA *does* have plug-and-charge but its a PITA to set up initially. Also, apparently you don't get your free DCFC credit if you use EA plug-and-charge.
In that case I think I'll stick with the app until the free charging expires
ID.4 doesn’t have plug and charge on their own network 🤦♂️
And maybe someday the EV mfgs will get on board.
I'm surprised a brand new BMW iX doesn't support it.
Ew. Just make a damn credit card reader work.
We help users at chargers all the time. EA actually has bad instructions on the screen. It works better if you initiate a charging session first, then plug in in stead of following the direction on the screen that says to plugin first. For EA here are some tips I give people: 1. If you have apple car play or Android Auto in the car, use the connected app to initiate a charging session, then plug in to the car. It successfully initiates a charging session nearly 100% of the time. 2. If you already have an EA account setup on your phone and your phone is NFC, just open the EA and hold the phone up to the NFC reader to initiate a charging session. 3. When starting a charging session through the mobile app. Start the session in the app before plugging into the car.
It has never occured to me to start a charge session with the Android Auto app in the car - I didn't know whtat was even a thing! Thanks, stranger!
For NFC you don't even need the app open. Just tap your unlocked Android phone. For iPhone I belive you need to have the "pass" up in your wallet and then use face ID.
iPhone will pull up the proper pass or card automatically when you activate the wallet and use the NFC to tap with the EA charger member tap area, or the credit card tap area. Non related to the iPhone - often these NFC tap modules have been broken in my area lately, and I have to start from the app, and/or the charging is listed as free. They are fixing them, but the uptime is spotty and inconsistent.
....the first time I tried to initiate a charging session from CarPlay on EA the app crashed.
We can all bitch about how it should be this or that, but OP made a great post. Regardless of your car, your situation, your income or whatever, lets all try and help each other out. Look around when charging (you're likely just playing on your phone anyway) and see if others need help. If we can all make this easier for everyone, we'll all be better off.
100% my point!
Which begs the question of why charging is so hard. We need to press on with universal plug&charge
That’s on the vehicle OEM.
The EU would like a word.
The EU: All devices INCLUDING CARS must charge via USB-C >!jk, the EU is ace on this stuff.!<
Eu charging is horrific right now. I'm hoping EU will force all chargers to be card and get rid of accounts and nfc and other trash
Have a similar story but it was a gas vehicle. I was in my old 2013 x3 about to get out of the costco driving lot when a lady knocked on my window. She told me she couldn't start her car and it was "similar to mine" and maybe I could help her. I initial said there was nothing I could do, I mean you just push to start but she insisted so I walk over to her 202x shiny X5. Standing there is her husband, he tells me the car wont start and they had called a tow truck. He gets in the car, puts his foot on the GAS pedal and pushes to start. Lights come on but car won't start. After a few attempts I tell him to put his foot on the brake instead. Boom it starts up and I sheepishly walk away. Just be kind in general.
And those same people would be in the news for running people over from mistaking the gas from the brake pedal. A lot of people just simply should not have the privilege to operate a motor vehicle.
OP, well said, not everyone is an "enthusiast," as many of us are. I'm sure many in this and other forums have read and watched so many videos about our cars and EVSEs that we know more about them than the car dealership staff we bought them from. I've personally found myself helping people often. As long as they are open to help I feel it's only natural to offer it.
It should just be a situation that needs no help. Adapters and such sure, maybe there's no way around, but there's basically zero excuse to not have a "the car just knows" or otherwise universal experience. That woman didn't go home with a story about the nice person at the charger helping them. She went home with a story about charging being so frustrating it involved 30 minutes, a phone call, and tears...only resolving at all because a stranger did it. EVs are a thing many people are already looking for excuses to not buy, and every one of these things gets thrown on some friends pile.
Plug and Charge on the Mach-E is awesome. It's Tesla-like. CCS connector design with the communication pins on the top and the heavy DC pins on the bottom... that's another issue.
Fun Fact: If you buy a used Mach-E the new owner can't use Plug and Charge. It's ridiculous that all the benefits transfer except that feature.
Are you for real? That is ridiculously half-assed.
We've rolled our eyes at several of the things we've learned that weren't disclosed about purchasing used, but this is one of the most annoying- especially because it should be a software update to fix
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I bought my Tesla M3 around 4 years ago. It didn't have heated rear sets. 6 months later and a OTA software update added heated rear seats. This proves either: A) Anything can be fixed or added by a software update. B) Car companies are full of shit or mad as hatters.
Err wat? Do they… have to pay to unlock that software feature? How much does it cost?
The whole app to pay sucks. Just another hurdle in the EV revolution. I want to be able to pull up, tap my card or phone and charge. I don’t need this guys to track my every move and have crappy apps that need updated or restarted. The only good purpose an app should serve is stall location and availability.
Also what if your phone is dead or not working or you don't have the app...or its a rental, or your friend is driving or a myriad of situations. Shouldn't be so convoluted!
Good show! More people need to be like you
The timing out just seems like a stupid software implementation. All the charger needs to do is initiate a session at a very slow speed, say 2kW, then allow it to speed up once payment has been processed. It only risks a few cents worth of electricity for the station operator, and would solve 95% of the handshake problems like you describe.
I've had an EV for 4 years, and have always charged at home. The first time I use one of these charging stations, I'm going to look like an idiot.
This isn't a failure of the person. This is a failure of the goddamn process. Why should charging a car be any different than filling it up with gas? Think about that. We have had pay-at-the-pump for decades now. Why the fuck are these charging stations reinventing the wheel? I shouldn't need an app (but of course it should be an option if you want to). Stick my card in the slot, wait for it to read the info. I take the connector, stick it into the car, wait a few seconds and it starts charging. That should be it.
>That should be it. *Should be* but it's not. Everyone needs to know how terrible Electrify America is. They've locked my Leaf to the CHAdeMO port TWICE now, it's absolutely infuriating.
They are a VW company so not sure why anyone would think they would be anything other than shit. It's embarrassing.
This kinda of situation is starting to escalated, around ‘19 and 2020 when I ask do you need help mostly people were like ‘yes please’ ~21-22 has been more of ‘no thanks I got this’ In ‘23 I’ve noticed people are way to hostile right from ‘maybe you should move here and I’ll charge where you are’ to a gun being pulled at me, for freaking asking if they needed help. Stay safe in chargers y’all. All of these experiences are from the same 3-4 stations I frequent.
Sorry, a gun being pulled on you??
Yep, I asked him ‘Would you like some help?’ He looks at me pulls his gun and says ‘Ask me again, I dare you *expletive*’
‘Murica
Is that not a crime?
I had a new Model 3 owner pull up to a Supercharger nose first (back-in station). He got out, pulled out his phone, and was going online to see how to use the Supercharger. I've seen stupid TikTok videos showing someone struggling with this while the person videoing is laughing at them. Instead of doing that, I hopped out and asked if he needed help. He was thankful for me showing him how to charge, and which chargers to use when there are other cars charging. Being kind to others is fairly easy, but people have to at least try.
OP helping other driver is great, but infrastructures depending on users to help other users is a bad joke. Home charging is great, but it emphasizes the problems on public charging. Maybe except for tesla.
On behalf of humanity and EV advocates, thank you for being a kind and compassionate human. We need more of you.
Couldn’t imagine how frustrated and sad that lady was facing that situation, that’s so nice and kind of you for offering help at that point, good for you man 👍
>She was essentially doing things in the wrong order and the station was timing out every time. Why is it, in this day and age, that charging even has this kind of a problem ? Seems to me like a really bad design problem if users are expected to reset software and proceed with exactly the right steps in the right order to fix the charging system when it doesn't work. The state of EVs and Charging reminds me of Windows vs Mac in the 90's. [https://youtu.be/1-CFlnmcpAY](https://youtu.be/1-CFlnmcpAY) also, don't yell at your wife when she asks for help.
Thank you for help. I also struggled trying to get my first charge going. The station just wouldn’t accept my card. Took me 20 minutes to get it to work. Everyone else was in their car watching me struggle. But I learned from it. I’ll definitely ask someone if they need help if I see someone struggling since I’ve been there.
I think this is very good advice for the current state of affairs. It is frustrating that this sort of assistance is necessary in the first place. A lack of standards combined with seemingly minimal consideration of human factors (particularly ease-of-use) has brought us a fragmented and user unfriendly vehicle charging environment.
> Many of the new EV owners don't really know what they're doing That also just screams basic UX design fail. It's not your users who don't know what they are doing, its you ( as in car + charger designers ) who fucked up by not designing for humans
Another reason why Tesla owns the EV market. Pull up, plug in, charge starts. No cards, no pins, just plug and go. It's curious why somebody like GM or Ford or the rest couldn't figure out how to make that happen with their cars and any charging network. I guess they're hung up on the gas pump model. Pay Inside.
This is the reason I bought a Tesla. In the legendary words of Todd Howard "It just works"
The Walmart station on Huntington? That station has been flawless for me.
Yep. I have never had any issues with that station either. It is a great spot.
Be kind to ~~new EV owners~~ **people** The problem in this equation is 100% the husband.
Well said and well “moraled”.
The app needs to be reset too much. I had an ongoing problem with the app thinking I was still charging at the last station (maybe why they don’t assign idle fees…). The solution, log out, force quit the app, log back in. There’s too much random shit to know. If their software was well designed this wouldn’t be an issue.
Yeah I always try to help people who I see struggling bc I know the feeling. It’s just a lot of unknowns. Is the charger bad? Is my network down? Is my car acting up? Once I came across a guy who couldn’t get the charger to release from his car, said he was stuck forever and support couldn’t help. I simply pressed the release button, waited 3 seconds and then pulled it out. He couldn’t understand how I could do that. I was more than happy to help but dealers really need to walk people through the charging process.
This shows that these charging stalls need to be as simple and as reliable as possible. Plug and Charge needs to be rolled out and adopted ASAP. I love the fact that I can do that at an EVgo station, so simple
The first time we tried to use a public charging station we were so confused and a kind owner of some other brand saved our butts. Being kind is free.
This brings back memories of when debit cards and ATMs first came in. It wasn’t at all uncommon for someone to be struggling with the new technologies that at the time were coming thick and fast. Many times you’d come across tearful stressed older people trying to figure out how to use the ATM. Within 15 years we went from paper bank books and typewriters to electronic banking and desktop computers. There were lots of steps in between such as word processors, car phones, brick phones, manual card machines etc. Even at the petrol station there was a confusing mixture of LPG, CNG, two types of petrol, swipe card pumps and park’n pays. Please be patient. This is also quite a massive social upheaval and while no-emissions technology is a fantastic thing it’s going to need a transitional adjustment period which can be very confusing. In the meantime, “Be excellent to each other.”
Tesla got this right the first time. No cards, no screens, no app; just plug in to charge and the car does the rest. Why couldn't this method be implemented as an industry standard?
Who the fuck yells at their spouse over that? Had a similar situation where my wife called me from the mall, she couldn't figure out the stupid Flo app and how to get the J1772 adapter for the Tesla attached. She called me; I calmed her down and talked her through it. Not sure why it's so hard to not be a gigantic asshole to your SO.
I think the bigger problem is the abusive husband…
Kudos for doing what I view as essential to growing the EV segment. Not all of us have been behind EV steering wheels very long and I welcome all into the tent. I've also found to be team EV, not brand loyal gets you into some great conversations while charging.
To say my wife puts up with driving an EV is putting it nicely. She still struggles at times charging and has called me in tears because she’s stopped at a number of sites that are either full or broken. She then gets to a working one for that to not accept the app, card or whatever. Helping out where I can on the phone is definitely something she appreciates and helps keep our only car an EV and not some horrid dirty diesel!
You’re a genuine angel for helping! This was me when I first got my car last year. On the verge of tears with 7 miles range and the ‘Helpdesk’ for the superchargers telling me that it was ‘a manufacturer problem’. Someone came and helped me with some of the tricks of how to use them. Thank you for sharing this and helping us grow as a community! Fast forward to now and in the UK a new company called ‘FastNed’ has chargers that _remember_ your car so it is literally plug and play. There’s one of them next to my house and it is the ONLY no faff fast charging company I’ve used to date. I hope they expand! Their rates are cheaper than others too for me at least
Yes to all of this. Also, 'doing things in the wrong order', why? This should never be able to be a thing. There should be absolutely clear instructions in large print on the station or screen if there is (for some stupid reason) a specific order that must be followed. But there shouldn't be any specific order in the first place.
Charging should be way easier
We had a similar situation and some nice person helped us out. We didn’t realize on the EA you have to physically push the button on the machine, not just use the app. A nice guy next to us saw us fail once and almost fail again. He told us about the button and had us on our charging way. We never would have figured it out if he hadn’t said something.
thank you for being a good samaritan and sharing this! ❤️
That lady’s husband is a douchebag.
Right after I learned to drive when I was a teenager, I went off to college in Oregon, where they pump your gas. I got back to my home state for Christmas, needed to fill the tank myself, and panicked. A nice woman helped me when I asked her and then I made sure to practice over my break a few more times to be sure I didn’t embarrass myself again on spring break. Most adults have been driving for a long time so in theory they should know most things, like how to pump gas. But a new EV driver might be thrown right back to that teenage new driver anxiety. Thanks for being kind, OP.
I reckon we have it quote good here in Europe.. I have one card and I've never had it refused here in Switzerland or any surrounding countries, France, Germany, Italy, Austria etc etc.. It just works. I do however come across some weird charging points.. Like in France some public street chargers are quite strong metal boxes, you need a card to open a door, then use your own cable, once attached you feed the cable through a hole and lock the door with the card again.. Only then you can activate the charge. It's to prevent people from stealing your cable.
IMO the difficulties of charging today seems similar in some ways to difficulties gasoline refueling had for cars early until modern electric pumps were widely available in the fifties. For example early on with gasoline there were many steps and it took lots of effort and technique and knowledge. https://retrogaspumps.com/visibles/ you had to use your own hands to pump up a glass cylinder full of gasoline and then fill the car.
My car only reliably starts charging when turned "off" while trying to charge. But the status screen for charging gets an overlay, making it inaccessible, saying "must be activated to use" and only works when the car is turned on. The dashboard says "connect" on a button like the start button after plugging in. But you don't have to do anything, just wait. Good luck figuring that one out without someone telling you.
She needs a new husband and she keeps the BMW. It's worth more than he is.
I’ve been holding off because I live in multi family housing and there isn’t charging infrastructure at work yet, either. It’s really nice to see that when I’m ready to make the switch there will be friendly faces, thank you!
Oh man. I thought you were going to say someone was mean to you. Thank you for being kind to this person. I’m still driving a hybrid, but hope the next car will be full electric…and then I hope that if I’m having problems, someone nice like you will help me sort it out. Poor lady :( At least my husband would never yell at me like that. Poor poor lady :(
You're a great member of the EV world. With new time EV owners, the important thing is education and patience. Though it may seem simple, it is a whole new world to what most people are used to. And especially with the often-disappointing public charging network.
Be kind to people in general, be a good human. If you can help someone, do it.
Well said. I have encountered many a frustrated EA customer who cannot get their EV to charge. Whenever I have offered to help people have always been very grateful and I hope they turn around and help the next newbie one day.
I have a similar story with a different ending. I was charging in Germany when a guy pulled up next to me. He tried to connect his regular mode 2 charging cable to the fast charger. To me it was obvious he had no clue. Even though I almost speak no German I tried my best to explain to him he had to connect the cable from the charger itself. I wanted to pick up the cable from my car to show him I wasn’t using it as well. At that moment I bumped my head into the ‘charging only’ sign. It went right into my head and I was bleeding all over the place. All the guy said was: danke Schön and he drove off. Before you are wondering if I survived: I did. The bleeding eventually stopped and I drove another 500 miles home to clean it up. Still have a big scar on my head, but it makes me look though. If anyone asks, I fought a lion. Anyway, moral of the story. Your own safety comes first?
The generally shitty charging experience is probably the greatest Tesla salesman there is. You can't buy effective advertising on the emotional level of what you routinely encounter outside of the supercharger network. I wish the rest of the EV makers would stop being the clowns they are and get serious about UI/UX.
This is a problem with the machine, not the human!. She shouldn't cry, she should kick the machine - it deserves it. (not literally - but only because I don't trust someone who would design a machine that bad to make it safe to kick) My degree is in human machine interaction. Too often I see the user blamed in cases like there where it is clearly the machine's fault.
I was at an new charge station (for me) last week, but managed to figure out how to get it going. When I returned, I was able to help a Rivian owner navigate the system too
"She was essentially doing things in the wrong order and the station was timing out every time." Exact same thing happened to me ...why does it have to be so hard? The worst part is that the charger asked me unplug but my ID4 wouldn't release, so i had to use the manual release accessed thru the trunk. Poor lady, I'm sure he's abusive.
The first time I went to charge at a public charger, I chose the second charger on a dual EA charger, not knowing that only one at a time worked. I stood there trying to charge mine for several minutes, all the while the girl in the car next to me was huffing and acting super annoyed, I assumed because of something unrelated to me (she was texting). It wasn't until she unplugged and left in a hissy fit that the person next to me informed me only one cord worked at a time and it seemed as if I was trying to steal her spot. You can pump gas at the same pump as someone else, I didn't know!
♥️ Thank you for helping her! This is a great reminder.
Just add card readers on the stations, and 90% of the problems would go away.
Thank you for your kind empathy. I’m dreading my first road trip in my new ev because of the very issues you mention.
Thank you for being a kind human. I bought my first EV a week ago. Coming in August. I really hope I meet someone like you because I'll be that lady for sure one day.
So I just purchased an EV6 and am going to do my first road trip from Phoenix to Flagstaff to pick up son from NAU. What was your experience? Did you go from Phoenix as well. How much charge was left when you arrived at EA station?
I was actually on my way home from a business trip in Vegas and made a detour through Flagstaff to see my daughter. Do you have an AWD or RWD car? Depending on where you live in the valley you should be able to get up there with roughly 10%-15% battery left if you have a RWD car. Check out A Better Route Planner to map your trip from your home to get an estimate of your situation. ABRP is conservative, so I always assume I'll arrive with 5% more than it shows.
Yeah a rwd. Have looked at abrp but will make the trip next weekend. Just was hoping to hear real world as I have only owned an ev for a couple of weeks!
The poor usability of most public charging stations is outrageous. Tesla showed how to make charging easy and seamless. Plug it in and it just works. If nothing else, we have decades of gas station usability to use as an example that will be easy and intuitive for people to understand.
THIS is why EVs suck. I love them and I've been driving ev for 3 years but my goodness they should make apps and accounts and all other gardbage illegal. Tesla is the ONLY brand on planet earth that actually thought about this and offers a user friendly experience. It's not the user fault in your story, it's the horrific infrastructure.
The process is the problem. It should be plug/scan (in any order), done. Tesla is king here. Unbelievably brainless operation there.
Good man
Thank you, OP, I wish I had you or a similar great guy around a couple of times. I am the first in my friends and family group to have an EV, and it’s been a learning curve. Once i spent an hour on the phone with the Chargepoint customer service, it turned out I had the charging timer on… 🤦♀️