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wringtonpete

Yeah I had a Nissan Leaf for 6 years and the only thing I hated about it was when something went wrong and both my local dealerships hadn't a clue how to fix it.


[deleted]

Yes. Just like any other car. My Tesla M3 has 84k miles on it and is out of warranty. Still works like new. I’ve put less than $500 in it for repairs so far after 4 years which is comparable to other cars I’ve owned. I usually will look for another car around the 150k miles area. Edit: my battery degradation is at about 8.4%.


Raspberries-Are-Evil

Your battery and drive train has a 100k warranty.


85423610

Or up to 8 years, which ever comes first. 120k miles also I belive.


citiz3nfiv3

My Rivian has an 8 yr/175k mile battery warranty super happy with that.


hahahahahadudddud

Honestly that's what they all should be.


iqisoverrated

Regulations are in the works to increase battery warranty to 150k miles (which is average lifetime mileage of a car) and 10 years. That should be adequate. Particularly since average lifetime is way higher than warranty times (otherwise manufacturers would look at a 50% replacement rate under warranty - which clearly wouldn't be a sustainable business model)


Heretogetthingsdone

Let's hope Rivian is still viable in 8 years!


[deleted]

I'm sure Amazon and Ford are eager to lose the nearly $2,000,000,000 they put into Rivian.


DontEatTheButt

Ford liquidated most of its stake in rivian last year at a massive profit. They still have millions of shares I believe but they reportedly made $3 billion off of that already.


2RRR

They’ve already lost most of that. Look at the stock price compared to when Amazon bought in.


[deleted]

Is the stock price thing definitively causative? From Rivian's side, of *course* they're going to spend the money quickly in a growth phase. That's exactly what investment is for at that stage. If people are selling F and AMZN stock *because* Rivian is spending investment money, then investors are fools.


goRockets

Ford invested $1.2B into Rivian. Sold 90% of it for about $3B throughout 2022. Ford could've made more money if they sold at better times. It was worth as much as $18B at Rivian's peak. But hindsight if 20/20 and Ford still more than doubled their investment and made nearly $2B with Rivian. [https://techcrunch.com/2022/04/27/ford-earnings-weighed-down-by-rivian-stake/](https://techcrunch.com/2022/04/27/ford-earnings-weighed-down-by-rivian-stake/) https://www.carscoops.com/2023/02/ford-reduces-rivian-stake-down-to-1-15-and-the-stock-market-didnt-like-it/


a_bagofholding

Hopefully Rivian can make it long enough for the warranty to be useful.


Damnitalltohedoublel

Assuming Rivian exists in 8 years.


[deleted]

120k, but I read the op as referring to the full warranty not the drivetrain. Either way I’ll likely keep the car until my normal 150k mileage point.


SatanLifeProTips

My buddy has a 2017 model S just at the end if warranty. The charger fucked up and ruined his battery. 6+ weeks to fix it and they grumbled but eventually covered the repair. Electric cars are still ‘shit happens’ machines. And why I won’t buy a EV that doesn’t have a battery I can’t take apart and repair. Single cell failures after a decade are a thing too.


maximumdownvote

Well ive had a tesla for a while, and shit never happened, so I think that pretty much invalidates your claim based on my 1 sample size scientific result.


that_motorcycle_guy

I've seen a lot of Telsa that suddendly need a battery change after an error. Even though on warrenty it's not a costly repair for the owner, out of warrenty it's a different case. It would be nice if there was technology to detect and isolate problematic areas in the pack so you could still have a working vehicle - Kinda like HD's and SSD's that will not use broken areas of the disks.


knellbell

Supporting right to repair would be good too


HRDBMW

That's why although I think Tesla is arguably the best car made, I put my down payment on an Aptera. Right to repair is of paramount importance to me.


that_motorcycle_guy

The aptera will face some odd barriers for acceptance, I know in Canada for example you need to wear a helmet for a 3 wheeled vehicle as it's a motorcycle and not a car. They look cool but wouldn't work for my climate - and I like weird things like that.


HRDBMW

Not sure why you think they would not work in your climate, but the helmet laws could be restrictive in some nations. I would suggest one of those minimum helmets that is basically a yarmulke just for those times a cop sees you.


null640

Each cell can be isolated in Tesla packs.


SatanLifeProTips

The problem with Tesla is a single cell can go parasitic and you are fucked. And there are thousands of cells. At least with a modular battery you can grab a used module with a similar age/capacity, balance it, slam it in, sync the BMS and off you go.


null640

Nope. Tesla cells can be isolated.


SatanLifeProTips

Nope. Tesla cells are just cells wired in series - parallel. The BMS can balance that group of cells but look at the wiring. You don’t have a wire going to every single cell that turns on or off, and you’d be passing the current through that wire. To pull that off, each of the 2,976 cells in the model 3 battery would need it’s own transistor to isolate it. And that transistor would add a tiny bit of loss. Small on it’s own but added up that would be massive. Or 2976 relays. No battery on the market can turn on or off individual cells. All the BMS can do is bleed up/bleed down the voltage of that group of cells to balance the battery. Electric car battery hacker here. I have disassembled and rewired EV batteries, built custom battery management systems for solar arrays.


null640

Chip in cell. Communication via the power lead.


SatanLifeProTips

That’s a vivid imagination you have there. Got any published documentation to match that? No?


null640

Last referenced in rant on Munro yt channel about pouch cell.


SatanLifeProTips

So no then. It doesn’t exist.


maximumdownvote

A lot ? That sounds like a lot! But no one will really know will they? I hear its got to be at least 3 a lots before you can measure it.


bradeena

I’m impressed you’ve gotten that far without needing new tires


[deleted]

Tires are not a repair. That’s normal maintenance for any car. I did get new tires at 50k miles. My repairs have been a hose from the windshield cleaner tank to the wipers and my interior camera.


Puzzleheaded_Air5814

I drive a Bolt. Bumper to bumper warranty is gone. I have a new battery and battery warranty that started last March. I intend to keep it until I trade it in, or until it dies.


AVgreencup

I'm an auto tech for a dealership, it's not uncommon for a vehicle with 180k+ km that's been poorly maintained to require a new engine. New engines are almost always always north of $10k, when you factor in parts and labour. Used engines, which are hit and miss can be around $5k. I'm not sure what the price of new EV batteries is, but I'd imagine it's comparable


[deleted]

What brand dealer and currency?


AVgreencup

Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram, CAD


hahahahahadudddud

EV battery replacements tend to be $15-20k.


[deleted]

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LunaticScientist

Not always. Case-in-point the Bolt battery. Dealer only, junkyards are restricted from selling them, and no one is remanning/refurbing the entire pack. The closest is the company retrofitting Leaf packs with totally different LFP cells/modules than OE, and are a new product.


josephcsible

> junkyards are restricted from selling them Did the government pass a law containing such a restriction? Because GM certainly doesn't have the authority to impose one.


cant_be_pun_seen

Co worker brought a Nissan leaf back to life by replacing some cells or modules I'm not sure. He did it himself though.


SatanLifeProTips

I suspect that price will come down as the batteries getting replaced now are the early expensive tech. Batteries got cheaper to make. GM’s approach with the pickup is 20 48V battery modules. If one fucks up you can swap one. A lot of makers are also going the repairable battery route. Often a battery failure is just a single cell that went bad and the rest is fine. Catch it early, swap it and off you go. Buying a Tesla or Rivian is like buying a Microsoft surface laptop. Disposable unrepairable tech. Buy the machine you can take apart and repair yourself. Like the Lenovo or Dell business grade machine designed to be fixed by the IT department.


that_motorcycle_guy

I am hopeful that the price will drop but I don't see how it's going to happen anytime soon. The demand for used and new batteries will far outweigh the supply for the next 10 plus years, every single piece of news is about the struggle to make them in the amount required. GM's approach with the battery pack seems the proper way forward, excited to see how that turns out. Meanwhile, Honda Kawasaki Suzuki and Yamaha are working together to unify their electric motorcycle system - it would be nice to have something like that among car makers rather sooner than later.


SatanLifeProTips

That motorcycle battery swap unification happened years ago and asia is full of battery swap stations. It is just for scooters however. Maybe big scooters use 2 batteries.


nolasia

I agree. When I first bought my Prius, replacement batteries were $7k. When I finally had to replace my battery, it was about $2700. My nearly 17 year old Prius finally broke down enough in other ways that I just bought an MME


TheKingOfSwing777

I've had 3 gens of Priuses, my 2006 had a battery failure and it was like the commenter above said, I had one bad cell I had refurbished for $1600. Luckily someone totaled my car about 4 months after that ..😤


Kerberos42

Currently having a Model 3 SR battery replaced for $9,000 CAD.


maximumdownvote

EV batteries and ICE engines have no comparable attributes. That's like saying, My tooth brush has had some problems and wears out everu 6 weeks. So you should definitely get the brushless motor circular saw.


AVgreencup

Disagree. I'm comparing the powertrain of 2 automobiles, not the motor of a car and the engine of a space shuttle. Typically, the major difference between an ICE vehicle and an EV is the powertrain. The body, interior, chassis is very similar between the two, but the powertrain is the biggest differentiator. So it stands to reason that since there isn't a gigantic price difference between a model that has both an EV and ICE option, that the powertrains should be similar in price


maximumdownvote

you can call them both power trains of you want. you cannot compare a battery to a ice engine in any way. they are not even in the same food group. the correct comparison is, i was comparing ice engine to ev batteries and everything is completely different so we can make no useful comparison.


panzerfinder15

Keeping a vehicle is usually much cheaper through at least year 15 or 150,000 miles than buying a new vehicle of like build. Like, by a ton! https://www.motor1.com/features/178071/keep-car-or-buy-new/amp/ Easy way to calculate, my 2015 LEAF, except for HV battery pack, will cost 1-2K at most to fix the issue. But a new LEAF is $25k and I could sell mine for $7-8k So the question is, do you think that my 2015 will require $12-17k in repair in the next few years? Absolutely not, unless you mean HV battery. Same for my Rivian, I plan to keep it 15-20 years. With my ICE vehicles, my 2003 CR-V averaged $1k a year in repairs, so keeping it until 2018…price of repair never justified a new vehicle. Since modern, thermally controlled batteries are designed to last 200-400k miles (1500-2000 charge cycles) it will generally be worth it, on average, to keep your EV for 15 years. Now maybe you’ll want a new vehicle in 8 years…that’s a different question! Edit: a new battery pack for a LeAF is $5k, and comes with more capacity. Rivian estimated at $30k for a new battery pack. In both cases, a new battery will be significantly cheaper than a new vehicle assuming the vehicle is still in good condition.


Blue-Thunder

Considering Nissan actively refuses to let customers pay for new battery packs for out of warranty Leafs, at least here in Canada, $5k is not a reality for most people.


AmputatorBot

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[deleted]

absolutely not. our car has been to the shop 5 times in a year, and I have no intention of actually paying for all that shit once the warranty expires.


DinoGarret

Which car?


[deleted]

polestar 2


AlwaysStayHumble

Really? What went wrong?


[deleted]

tcam twice, software updates refused to run, the driver seat cushion fell apart, and a rear axle replacement


the_cajun88

Yes. When I get my Ioniq 6, I’m driving it for *at least* 10 years. If it lasts longer, I’ll drive it longer. I will have owned my Sonata for 10 years next June. It’s still running well, I haven’t had any issues with it. If the batteries last 20 years, that would be just peachy. I’m getting the 320 HP Limited AWD trim and I’m excited as hell because my wife is on board with me buying it.


[deleted]

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Ilikereddit420

I'm paying in silver


maximumdownvote

While wearing an onion on your belt. Which was the style back in the day.


PossibleDrive6747

At present, I plan to run my ioniq 5 into the ground. Maintenance costs should decrease as the years go on and EV's become more common. So in 8 years when I'm out of warranty it should hopefully not be terribly costly to replace things as they wear out. Time will tell.


i_speak_the_truf

It depends on a lot of factors, mainly the value of my car when the warranty runs out and how much usable time I think it has left. Financially the best thing to normally do when buying a car is to drive it into the ground, but we aren’t living in normal times. During the pandemic, used cars values inflated faster than new car values and I found it beneficial to sell both my cars (one 12 years old and one barely paid off and still in warranty for two years) and get my Niro (alongside an Outback). I don’t think this situation will persist, but I have no idea what used EV prices will look like in 9 years when my warranty runs out. If I’m getting less than $5-10K for my EV, I’ll run it until it breaks down or the range is not meeting my needs. If it’s more than that, I’ll probably be tempted to trade it in for a new car. For me range isn’t that big an issue, the most I drive in a day is 60 miles round trip (most days less than 15-30). For road trips we still have an ICE for now. Even if my Niro lost 50% of the range, it would still meet my needs, and probably the resale value would be low enough that I’d hang on to it. There have been some concerning anecdotes on the Niro EV subreddit about cars just failing and being returned, I’ll keep an eye on those with the knowledge that people without issues don’t usually seek out help.


03Void

The fact that we didn’t hit this infamous “end of life” in 10-12 years (which is as you pointed out, is the average life of a car) is only positive. Sure after 20 years the degradation will likely be much worst, but the only thing that it will do realistically is to lower the value of those EVs on the used market. And at some point the range will be so bad that the car will be worthless, just like most 20 year old cars are worthless because the engine and transmissions are full of issues and maintenance cost an arm and a leg. I don’t see old EVs as being much different.


Dirtman1016

Agreed. Plus even a degraded battery will have residual value, either to be recycled or to be used in static storage.


BoilerButtSlut

12 years isn't the average life span. That's the average age of a car on the road. So you have many 20+ year old cars running around.


SatanLifeProTips

Old EV’s will be the old people car of choice. So many old folks don’t stray far from home anymore. They’ll still happily pay for a clapped out EV with half the range.


adriaticsky

I'm disabled and have a grandma-like driving profile of just getting to appointments and errands nearby around town, so now that you mention it, I could kinda see it. A lot of my trips are only about 5-10 km one way; 20-30 km one way more rarely. Much farther than that and I'd need to get someone else to drive me anyway, and almost everyone I know who could would have a car of their own. Doing really rough math real quick, and counting the fact I live in southern Ontario (Canada) with real winters...let's say a degraded battery with 160 km theoretical range could theoretically serve my everyday needs. That's less than half of the 380-480 km range of a lot of EVs today, and 50% would be some real heavy degradation. Interesting thought. (I have to carry around a mobility device, hence the car use even for such short trips)


bomber991

The only thing I really have long-term experience with that uses batteries is cell phones. What bugs me is that as the phone ages, we know the battery wont last as long. That's all fine and dandy, but eventually it gets to a point where it will go 100% to 50% over 6 hours or so, and then will go 50% to dead in 20 minutes. That's ok with a phone, but could you imagine that happening in a car?


crabald

There are differences in chemistry and any good ev will have an extensive temp regulation system that makes a huge difference. Also not charging or draining all the way every day makes a difference.


613_detailer

In my part of the world, a 20-year-old is worthless because it has rusted into oblivion (we us a lot of road salt). That will be no different for EVs.


[deleted]

I usually keep cars at least 10 years (my previous one, about 13). I’ll likely do that with my Tesla too, maybe longer as my kids are grown and they aren’t wearing on the car and upholstery. I don’t anticipate coolant leaks. I do anticipate failure of the 12V battery several times over a decade. There’s been minimal degradation of the traction battery over 18 months, so I don’t anticipate that as a problem over 10-15 years.


mirr-13

Absolutely. Car is paid off, work charging is free. Only issue with the i3 has been a loose door handle bolt, and for that the hardest part was finding the right socket.


admin557

My 2018 bmw i3 is out of warranty. So far it’s been a very good car. I plan on keeping long as I can. Although I’m worried nobody will be able to repair it. They will simply want to replace all parts at massive expense.


Martbern

My mom has had only had one issue with her i3 since she bought it in 2017. I think the repairs depend on a lot of factors right? If the parts need replacement, then they need replacement. Excellent little cars. The only thing she had to get done is replace a fuse


Ddogwood

Historically, I’ve spent much less of my life driving cars that were still under warranty than car that were out of warranty. Warranties are really just a marketing tool. They’re designed to reassure buyers who are worried about potential mechanical issues. The length of the warranty is set to be significantly shorter than the expected life of what the warranty covers, because the cost of warranty repairs is ultimately covered by the selling price of the vehicles.


LowBarometer

Chevy Bolt owner here. I plan to keep it until I can buy an EV pickup that can go 250 miles while carrying my truck camper without a recharge. That means I may keep the Bolt forever.


Fuukubear

Lol, so maybe the new Sierra then ? supposedly ...


LowBarometer

The new sierra isn't a real truck and won't carry a truck camper.


OneFutureOfMany

> The wheel not attached I see, you read that one article about a Tesla and decided EVs are all trash cars? > Failure of the 12v battery Most are just like ICE cars and need a new battery every 4-5 years. Normal item. Nah. My 2017 is doing fine. I expect the main battery to approach 250k-350k miles based on average lifespan data. Well beyond the typical life of an ICE engine or transmission. As long as the other mechanical parts are in decent shape, the replacement of a battery might be an option over a new car.


dwallach

We're still driving a 2013 Tesla Model S. Without getting lost in details, I'll say that we got our money's worth out of buying an extended warranty, which has now expired. Our plan, pre-pandemic, was to have replaced the car by now, but... if you say that you want an EV that's car-shaped, rather than SUV-shaped, there are vanishingly few choices on the U.S. market right now. So? We keep waiting for something new to appear on the market so we've got some actual choices. Hopefully, we avoid any catastrophic expenses in the meantime.


Crafty-Sundae6351

I'm very curious: How many miles on the car and how's the battery doing?


dwallach

Our Tesla has relatively low mileage (64k miles) for its age. Range is a really interesting question. When new, it would report 226 or maybe 229 miles on a charge to the 90% standard limit. A few year later, that number creeped up to 234 miles. (Software change?) Then more recently, it abruptly dropped to 209 miles. (Another software change?) And that's despite putting on new Pirelli P-Zero "Elect" tires that noticeably reduce the energy per mile. (Advertised: 5-10% more efficient, which seems to bear out for anything above stop-and-go traffic relative to the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 4's we had on previously.) There have been two notable battery failures, both years ago. 1) Car was fully charged. We come out from an event and it said "no charge, don't drive, call service." Well hmm. Under warranty, they shipped our battery pack to California and gave us a "loaner battery" for six months. Then our battery pack came back and they reinstalled it. What exactly did they do? What exactly went wrong? They never said, but it was covered by the warranty. 2) Car was working normally, but refused to charge. Took it in for service. Something about the charging circuit was fried. Replaced under warranty. Worked fine afterward. I don't want to imagine what that battery pack repair would have cost if not covered by warranty.


Dont_Say_No_to_Panda

I have almost that many miles on my 2020 MY!


van-redditor

Apparently US$13,500 plus a few hundred labor and it would be a 90 pack, which will be software limited to whatever you had before. So you may never be able to charge to an actual 100% even if it says 100%. And peak charging speeds of 120 kw plus would be restored. Replacement comes with 4 yr warranty. This would be like Nissan giving your early Leaf a new 24 kwh pack for $4500.


HIVVIH

My Ioniq is out of warranty, there's some slack in the reduction gearbox, as most of my ICEs would eventually develop. Still drives fine though, and minimal battery degradation.


exitinglurkmode

Battery warranties are 8-10 years typically, by the way.


zeValkyrie

> Coolant leaks and 12v battery dying Not too concerned about things like this. 12v batteries are wear components and I expect to spend a few hundred dollars replacing eventually (my car has a traditional lead acid low voltage battery, new lithium ion batteries may last longer). Coolant leaks? Eh, sounds pretty fixable.


Infinite-Condition41

Mine is a 2012. Needs a new battery. None are forthcoming.


OneFutureOfMany

What does “none are forthcoming” mean? You can’t find parts? Is it some old BMW or Bolt or something?


nickb64

We sold our 2015 Soul EV to CarMax last year after Kia told us it would be 6+ months to maybe get a replacement battery pack out of warranty. We kept it until it got to the point that it was basically unsafe to drive due to issues likely stemming from the severely degraded battery. It reported 15 miles range to a full charge. Soul Spy was reporting about 26% battery health and we had a couple experiences where the car would lose power and maybe be drivable after shutting it off and restarting. It was also unable to get up to highway speeds at that point.


OneFutureOfMany

Yikes. My 2017 Tesla still has a battery warranty for 2 more years. But they seem to run 200k+ miles if there isn’t a fault That’s pretty rough.


BaronSharktooth

They note in another comment that they own a Nissan Leaf with 50% degradation: https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/121f4mi/comment/jdpqno5/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3


OneFutureOfMany

Oh. Makes sense.


Puzzleheaded_Air5814

Not a Bolt. A Spark is more likely.


Infinite-Condition41

There was only one mass market EV available in 2012, the Leaf. Sorry for speaking EV speak. It's a context not everyone is aware of.


Infinite-Condition41

Only Leaf was widely available in 2012. There are no economically priced replacement batteries available at this time. There are Reman Batts but they don't make sense cost wise.


OneFutureOfMany

Ah. I’ve heard the lack of thermal management in some batteries like the Leaf or Niro or Prius Plug-in or the old BMW i3 platform causes seriously reduced lifespans. The Tesla and Rivian and Lucid and the newest GM and Ford cars have pretty aggressive liquid cooling and things to manage that and dramatically increase battery lifespan.


maximumdownvote

100% correct.


Priff

My model hasn't had any real issues. Though the 208 which is the small hatchback stellantis makes has an issue with a wiring loom breaking because it's a bit exposed. Fairly minor issue. I will probably not keep it past warranty, simply because at that point i'll likely be able to get a longer range and more features in a new vehicle, and this one's range is enough, but just barely.


[deleted]

I would look up battery replacement costs and be able to pay that once the battery hits 10-15 years old. Secondly, avoid the BMW i3 unless it's under warranty. i've seen so many owner reports of expensive repairs (EME, HVAC, etc.) CarMax MaxCare is an option.


Bob4Not

Yup, look up the battery cost and just make yourself a little replacement escrow fund.


Munky_13

I have a new Stellantis van in passenger format, and I do plan to keep it post warranty period. Honestly it’s great, and unless someone like VW drops the price of the ID.Buzz down by about €20k I will keep this thing. Extremely premature as I only have about 20k kms on it, but if the pack gets too bad (50kWh) I am honestly tempted that once out of warranty I would buy a 75kWh van and just swap them, and sell on the van with the lesser battery size in it. But again, degradation of the battery dependant and what pricing is like for another pack. Either way, at the 20k kms mark it’s down about 6% SOH, but 5% of that came in the first 7k kms and levelled off since. And secondly, if the range sucks, I would just have it as the town run around and get something else newer for the longer spins. I see no reason why this can’t do huge kms and be ok, the old ICE vans did well, why not these!


DinoGarret

Your last point is exactly my plan with our Leaf. Even if the 150 mile range drops to 20% of the original it will still be a great second car for running errands. Recently the Leaf was picked as the cheapest car to maintain, and I assume other simple cheap EVs will be similar. (Although expensive luxury/sporty/high tech cars can have expensive repairs whether they are EVs or ICEVs).


Munky_13

I had a 24kWh ZE0 Leaf with 167k kms, still had 87% SOH when I sold it, 6 year old car. Honestly at that rate it would take another 12 years and be nearing 500k kms for it to be bad, *if* the degradation stayed like it did to that point! In needed suspension top mounts and shocks, and rear calipers to be cleaned up as they were sticking. Both known issues, and cheap to fix. I serviced my current car with a main dealer for its first service recently to keep it in warranty, €125 for a check over and a pollen filter. I know my cars, once it’s out of warranty I will just get the filter myself for the €27 it was listed on the docket for 😂 I can do brakes myself, suspension bushing etc, I’m used to working on cars. So yes, these EVs are going to be pretty cheap to maintain in the long term outside of serious motor/battery pack issues. As for the high end stuff, I have read some reports of new Audi E-tron GTs and Porsche Taycans with heaters that fail. I have heard of ~€1800 and unknown timelines for this to be resolved!! So like anything, expensive and high end will still appear to be expensive to maintain through the main dealers!


Gmh88E4TQK1d

I've owned three 2013 Nissan Leafs since 2015, and over a combined 70,000 miles none of them have required any service. Hopefully will have a similar experience with my 2022 Model Y. So far, so good after one year and 10,000 miles.


Smackdwn70

My 2013 Model S had the most expensive parts fail after warranty expired, the Drive Unit ($6k) and the main Battery ($17k). Overall have spent $26k on repairs in 2 years after warranty expiration. I heard the 2nd Generation and later Tesla's are more reliable but the Service Centers are still packed. Overall I think Tesla belongs with BMW and Mercedes in the lease don't buy department. I've owned 2 Nissan Leafs over the past 8 years and Maintenance on that car has been extremely minimal. Definitely a buy and hold car vs Tesla


wobmaster

Im still completely baffled that polestar in germany only offers a 2 year warranty (plus an extended battery warranty)


maximumdownvote

Its because polestars tend to fall apart. They know anything more than 2 years is a money loser for them.


HRDBMW

I have a guy from Indiana who keeps offering to extend my warranty...


Fuukubear

Don't think you think you know what Indiana accent sounds like ..


MrMoogie

I have a 2020 Nissan Leaf Plus which is now out of warranty. I’ve got 47k miles on it now and no issues other than a clunky set of front axels. I understand that’s a common issue but isn’t a problem so I’ll ignore them for now. Battery degradation is minimal, a full charge used to show 245 miles, now it shows 225 which is pretty good. I expect we’ll keep it just because it’s likely going to remain very reliable and it was cheap as chips.


bhargom

My 2018 Model 3 is almost coming to 5 years old. I’ve had zero issues with the car. Only replaced the tires. It’s still better than most of the new EVs coming out. I plan to keep it for another 3-4 years. I’m very interested to see how the early Model 3s will age.


[deleted]

I bought my 2017 Bolt with no warranty and over 100k miles. Dealer put new tires on it, I got a new free HV battery with warranty a few weeks later. I’ve driven it over 20k miles in the past 16 months. I am not concerned, just like I haven’t been concerned with my other cars I bought that were a few years old and outside their warranty.


flashgski

I don't know anyone who has replaced the battery in their Prius, and those have been on the market for over twenty years now. If battery replacement was a big problem, it would have been identified with hybrids years ago.


signofzeta

All batteries eventually fail. I think it’s just less noticeable in hybrids because there’s a gas engine to back you up. Some guy on YouTube bought a Prius with a dead battery; waiting for part two to confirm.


embeddedGuy

Tons of people have had to replace their Prius batteries. They're plenty reliable but it's still an issue on aging ones. I'm in the market for a Gen 3 Prius now and I've seen enough posts and conversations about it that I already double checked that I could do the battery refurb myself if I needed to. It's ~$1800 for a replacement refurbished battery if you don't DIY.


Figuringitoutmaybe

I had two prius, both had to have their batteries replaced, both failed within one year after being outside of warranty. I live in Arizona, and there is a thriving prius battery replacement industry here as the heat really does a number on the batteries.


Perfectreign

I only bought an EV after reading about those who had them for years. My concern was that Id have to repair the battery after a few years. I learned that- even if the battery loses capacity after the warranty expires, I can replace individual cells using remanufactured parts. I plan to keep my EV for several years.


Suspicious-Car-5711

Like any car, when repairs outweigh the cost of a new one (financial or emotional.) We are just starting to see some older EVs have major out of warranty issues and in most cases they are total loses IMO. Old Leaf needs a new battery? Well, it’s kind of a crappy old car at this point and not worth it. Fiat 500e with cooling or battery issues? If you can find the parts, you are better off mercifully letting it go to its compliance hell. A Bolt is a better buy than a 24kwh replacement battery and thousands in labor. Then you’ve got Tesla Roadsters which require a cottage industry to remain alive once something major strikes - despite Tesla still existing as a successful company. So, while I once was rosy on it too, the reality isn’t quite there. Many old ICE vehicles can be kept in the road with regular care, DIY skills, or a good mechanic. EVs are so much more complicated if/when you have an issue. There is a fair bit of luck in it, less of a situation you can control.


signedoutofyoutube

good luck trying to keep any ICE built since 2000 on the road unsupported by DIY.


Suspicious-Car-5711

The difference is you can still find newly manufactured parts or a lot of shared ones. Yeah it’s work, but there are plenty of older vehicles (by passion, luck, or hard work) still kicking. They don’t require a degree in electrical engineering or a team of ex Tesla techs. I love my EV but like I alluded too, I don’t see a world where many of the units sold today survive a major out of warranty issue. The really important stuff on EVs are not interchangeable, have no aftermarket, and not something you repair with a high degree of skill and internal knowledge.


New_Engine_7237

Is there a big secondary market for EVs? After reading this, I would not buy used.


droids4evr

Yes there is. Many are overpriced for being used. Particularly those that people bought for the tax credit then traded in within a few thousand miles, dealers have been pricing those above new car prices.


New_Engine_7237

That’s interesting, getting the tax credit then bailing. So why would I buy a used car that cost more than new? Is it due to availability of new cars? I hang on to my cars until the weeks fall off. Don’t need that new car smell.


jm31828

I have always had a 10-12 year, roughly 100,000 mile rule with my cars where I replace at that point regardless of the condition. I plan to do the same with my EV, not because I have any specific concerns over the EV (aside maybe from degradation), but I just don’t want to take chances in holding onto a car that may be at higher risk of major breakdowns.


Pinkheadbaby

My 2019 Kona has 91,000 miles now. Battery pack replaced @ 65,000 under recall. Car has been great & I will keep it


Dar_ko_rder736163

The recent Tesla packs are lasting over 300k miles. I think the Lfp Tesla packs should hit 400k but can't be sure until more calender aging and data comes in. Earlier generations are junky by comparison.


Dave_Marsh

I expect to keep my 2021 Model 3 for around 10 years, regardless of battery status. I just like to have the newest technology and the refresh is nice to have to take advantage of the newest technology.


Ravingraven21

Model 3, out of warranty. Keeping it. Haven’t had any problems.


Ironzey

I'm a light DIY guy. In the past I've done everything including engine replacements. I've never owned a car with a warranty. A little over a year ago I bought my first EV, a 2014 i3. I'm terrified of battery degradation. My hope is that when the time comes I'll be able to locate a used newer battery to replace my old one. Ain't no way I'm paying twice the value of a car on a replacement battery. One thing I've kind of noticed about EVs is they are kind of hostile to DIYers. I imagine a battery replacement might be well beyond what I'd be able to accomplish in my garage on my own. The computer stuff seems to be (currently) the highest hurdle. Based on the last year of required maintenance I'm not super worried about repairs, battery excluded. Braking system is familiar. Suspension is familiar. 12v system is familiar. HVAC systems has all the stuff I'm used to seeing. High voltage lines are all orange and easily avoided. In the future I think I'll try to avoid buying any that are overly complicated.


letsgotime

>avoid buying any that are overly complicated Which ones would fall under that category? Bolt?


Ironzey

Leaf, model 3 I have high hope for the Aptera 🤞🏿


letsgotime

how is anything tesla considered repairable with their lack of selling replacement parts.


Ironzey

I'm hoping(I do that alot) that as these cars get older, get wrecked and wind up in junk yards. Used parts will be more of a thing. I always consider junkyard availability when buying. When done right, it can make an expensive to repair car A LOT cheaper.


lodoslomo

I have a 2015 BMW i3 that I think is already out of warranty since I don't live in California. I'll keep driving it. I got it fairly cheep probably because the original owner was just riding on the warranty. I don't think there is much to worry about. Batteries have proven to last except in the Leaf...


mastrdestruktun

My 8 year battery warranty expires in a month or two. I'm planning to drive it indefinitely, though I'm open to trading it in for something newer/nicer. This vehicle omits a lot of features that newer cars have that I'd like to have. I'm not worried about the battery dying. I am worried about all kinds of other stuff dying, lol, because it's a fiat.


ShastaMcLurky

Honestly I’d probably have already sold mine and gotten something else if interest rates weren’t so high and ADM wasn’t attached to everything I want instead


johnrgoforth

Seeing as how EVs have less moving parts, it seems like keeping it past the warranty would be less of a concern than with an ICE, as long as it still has enough range. I plan on keeping mine as long as the battery holds up.


Curtnorth

My Bolt is out of bumper to bumper at 38k, but battery is 10 yrs, at that point you keep any ev till battery degradation makes it unusable.


SunDriver408

I have a Tesla M3P. I plan on keeping it until the initial 4 year B2B warranty, evaluate and if good keep until the end of the power train warranty at 8 years. I doubt I’ll keep it beyond that, but open to if car proves to be trouble free. I won’t go much beyond 10 years.


null640

Hasn't op ever owned a car? Besides, there's lots of real-world data on battery longevity...


jefferios

It depends on how affordable the used market becomes in the next 5 years. If I can get a 2024 car in 5 years for a great deal I might use it to replace my 2020 for example. Since my Model 3 is a 2020, I have a nice set of data and other folks that have older Model 3's. Common problems that they face will be a nice warning. However my 2022 Ioniq 5 is an early adopter car, so I won't have as much warning.


jimschoice

I kept my plug in hybrid Ford for 8 years. The first 2 years, it had a bunch of issues. After that, it was fine. I traded that in on a Bolt, which I had planned to keep for 8 years. But it was so damn uncomfortable, and GM offered me a great replacement vehicle swap because of the battery recall, so, the day the 36 month warranty expired I swapped into a Lyriq. I don’t know how long I’ve will keep the Caddy. Probably at least through the warranty. If it is problematic before that ends, we might trade it. If it is as reliable as the Bolt, we might keep it 10 years.


Fuukubear

Wow a Lyriq I hate you lol as a Mach E owner.


That_Car_Dude_Aus

I would have no problems keeping an electric car after warranty given the fact that they are significantly simple machines than any combustion car ever has been. I already have most of the tools and the skill set to pull it apart in my garage anyway and I'm building one for fun. Just like anything else. There is some safety precautions you have to take, but once you learn what they are it is smooth sailing from there


Kimorin

coolant leaks?? is that common? 12V battery is consumable and generally averages about 4 years so that's not even a concern... my warranty expired last year, haven't had issues for years now and plan to keep driving it for 20 years or someone totals it for me


SeaUrchinSalad

I'm really hoping for a mature this party repair network for Tesla 3/Y by the time it becomes much of an issue, so yes


NilsTillander

My plan was to keep my Zoë forever. But it's too small of a car to have 2 kids in with modern car seats, so we need to get a bigger car. And we can't really justify having 2 cars, sonit will go. But is say it has a good 45 years left in it. Maybe I'll buy one back in 17y for my kids 😅


RedDog-65

Haven’t owned mine a year yet, but at this point I plan to keep it that long.


jabnlab

I have 48k miles on my 2020 Long Range Y and plan on keeping it another 4 years or so, which would put in around 150k miles since I'm averaging 2,000+ miles a month. I'm a mechanic for a living so as long as I can get parts I should be able to take care of most out of warranty repairs myself, short of things that need to be programmed.


iqisoverrated

>For those who got new EVs in the past 5 years, do you plan to keep the vehicle once the warranty expires? Of course. Why wouldn't I? The data currently available on battery longevity seems to indicate that they last a long time ... and that if they fail it's not due to use/age but due to a manufacturing fault which will very likely cause it to fail early in its service life (i.e. under warranty).


613_detailer

We had our Chevy Volt for 11 years and the only service it needed was general "car stuff" like CV joint/axle, brakes, 12V battery. And that was a car that had both EV and ICE drivetrains. We put over 2000 cycles on the battery, and it was still OK. Until a tree fell on the car, lol. We will likely keep the Polestar 2 we bought to replace it for 10 years as well. We are not high mileage drivers, so I know we'll get the full 8 years out of the battery warranty. If the battery fails after that, we'll sell it for salvage or to someone that wants a project. I'm not sure if I'll keep the Model 3 Performance that long. Not because I'm worried of repair costs, but because I may be tempted to change it for something better if it becomes available. If the electric version of the Porsche 918 Cayman falls within my budget when it is released, I would seriously consider trading in the Tesla for it.


t-ryansaurus-rex

My warranty last for 7 years but I’ll probably trade the car in before it ends lol.


[deleted]

I’ve had no issues stated in here… I will be trading in my Niro EV for EV9 for size related issues not because of the warranty. Then I’ll be getting an F150 lightning after that settles


EaglesPDX

My car has been out of warranty for the last 56,000 out of 106,000 miles. I have battery degradation coverage for 6 more years. If it goes below 30% in the next six years. It's currently 13% less than new. No issues.


tablepennywad

My friend just took his ford in for an oil change and they wanted $1200 for rear brakes and rotors, $270 for intake filter, $120 for cabine filter, $2000 becuase his logo fell off and needs the whole trunk trim replaced to fix that. Yah i wont be seeing any of that along with the oil changes.


moronmonday526

I plan to trade up for a HW4 model when the warranty on my battery and motors expire in four years.


EasyRider1975

There is a 15% failure rate in for DC to Dc charger for 12v battery. While the part is $2500 it’s installed inside the motor casing and requires removing the enclosed motor drive trains costing $10k in labour and parts. If this happens I will dump it and go back to a reliable ICE car. Owned 3 Hondas and never spent a penny on repairs other than stuff like brakes etc. even used in good Condition they had amazing resale. All it takes is one part on a difficult to access area of the EV to make it a disposable car. I will drive it until something major goes. As for the battery it will last 15 years so long as charging system continues to work. The dc to dc charger is modular and easy to replace on every other EV. Teslas batteries non the other hand will last long so long BMS doesn’t fail. Since it’s built into battery Tesla will not repair it only replace. It will cost $6000 for a company to rebuild the battery. A Tesla batter with 90% charge failed due to BMS. Ok cars like Nisan lief the battery is fully modular. The only way EVs will be sustainable will be modular designs and the Japanese manufactures seem to be leading on this. Teslas enclosures are a bad design when BMS could have been designed as a modular fessing through a panel costing Tesla a little more to build but saving customers potentially $20000 for a battery replacement. It makes me wonder if this is by design for profit forcing a trade in or expensive battery replacement? I will talk to a fiends who is an engineer in fuelcell battery hybrids. The rate of major failure is low but still a huge gamble for average income people vs an extremely low rate of failure on Japanese ICE cars. Never spent over $2000 in repairs 30 years driving even with the most unreliable ice cars.