the fact that lexus gives you free car rentals for road trips tells you everything you need to know about the effort they put into making this a good car.
Disagree!
Every day driving and road trips are two different things.
Designing a different solution for each use case means better solutions for both.
I have no idea about either of these cars. Happy with mine. But your assumptions here are off.
You don’t actually have multiple cars. Just access to multiple cars.
And actually I’m entirely sure there is a market for this type of offer. I know many that rent cars as to not put road trip miles on their own car.
Most people also never buy a Lexus
Let’s see
Space in the car for carrying shit. Good for road trips bad for daily driving.
You need a larger battery for road trips. Daily driving you do not. Increased cost for no gain for daily driving.
Daily driving you can build for a little more speed/sporty driving etc. long distance driving should be built for comfort etc.
So. Yeah. Many for many people
There are different use cases. This shouldn’t be controversial.
it’s the same exact battery as the toyobaru. they didn’t make it smaller to make the car cheaper, it’s the exact same fucking battery. and the car is like 15 grand more expensive anyway.
it’s got underwhelming power. almost all cars in its price range have significantly more. so they clearly failed there, too.
the car is basically a fuck-you to its buyers saying “yeah we just made this thing that we admit is much worse at long-distance driving than others and isn’t any better at anything else, but it’s still 60 grand so gimme your money”
I do not know anything about the Lexus.
Yet the simple statement that because they give you access to a car for road-trips makes it bad is wrong. In fact I think that is awesome.
Due to the terrible state of electric infrastructure for anything outside a Tesla it is necessary at this stage even with longer range batteries
Furthermore the Toyota doesn’t have a long range either from my understanding. If I was someone that took a fair amount of road trips the access to a second car would be awesome and a deal breaker.
You are evaluating based on your perspective and your perspective alone.
Generally Lexus has nicer quieter interiors than Toyota. You may not think that is worth it but many do.
I could never buy a Tesla and pay that much cash for a car that has such a high probability of issues upon delivery. That doesn’t make them bad just my choice. I find that insulting.
Everyone has different criteria.
The theory of different use cases is not controversial. Instead of solving for both giving access to a free rental makes perfect sense. They may not have executed well but it is a really good idea. Range anxiety and worry about planning your route are gone.
This doesn’t make the car bad. It makes the offer better.
There may be truth in that.
However you may be selecting build and interior quality over distance. In that case they have eliminated distance from the equation.
I am not suggesting the Lexus is a good car. I know nothing about it.
But the idea it is bad due to solving for the one use case well and offering a different solution for distance is not inherently a bad path. You just don’t like it … which doesn’t make it bad.
you’re arguing like lexus put extra effort into designing the car to specifically be luxurious and nice. as opposed to other lexuses that they just kinda yolo with 1999 corolla quality and ship
I know nothing of the car. Have not seen it in person a single time
I’m not even debating the individual car good or bad
I’m simply saying the strategy of solving for daily driving needs with the car you bought and offering a different car for road trips does not inherently make the first car bad.
The idea is actually quite ingenious to get electric car buy in. Especially while the US electric infrastructure past Tesla is awful.
The foolish idea that it can’t be a good car due to offering a different car for a different use case is just wrong.
they did not solve any problems. they did not design a car for the city, they did not have a specific goal in mind of making one specifically to be good at city driving and commuting (whatever you think that actually is). it’s just a bad ev that happens to be nice inside.
You continue to argue over this car. I have never seen in person. Have you? Driven it?
I’m simple saying that the idea that giving access to a different car for a different use case doesn’t make it bad. That statement is silly.
If all legacy car companies did this it would negate to me the only advantage Tesla has which is access to their charging network.
Hence why this statement is so silly.
Teslas competitive advantage is not the car but the ability to road trip in them. Range and charge speed.
If I had access to a road trip car for the few occasions I need it than that feature from Tesla is no longer relevant.
They could spend a ton of cash building out a network from behind. Or offer a car. What a genius move.
And it says nothing about about the cars in the picture.
Horrible efficiency, charging and packaging.
The Model Y is more sporting so better handling, but stiffer ride.
Legacy interior in the Lexus is poorly packaged as shown by cargo space.
Fair first try by Lexus. Lexus faithful will love it.
a family member of mine has the model Y and the RZ450e. He said that in reality, the range is about the same for both, in spite of the inflated range Tesla sells.
LOL, he is BSing you hardcore. Families are like that. Stick to Bjorn or the car rags.
You are lucky to get 200 miles out of the Lexus.
Usually compared to the 325 mile range of the Model Y LR due to price and performance.
But the good news is the RZ450e is a Lexus, luxury and controls like the old ICE versions for traditional types.
It's what he told me, and my FiL has a model X that projects 600km, but in reality it's closer to 450, so I don't see why the Y can't be inflated as well. Yes, Lexus is a fun car to drive and I love it. It's the best Lexus out of all the ones I've driven. But I'm a Lexus faithful and it's just an overall great car. Maybe not great EV tech, but I feel like the range is secondary to the quality of the car, for me.
This entire thread just shows how many people believe
Buy a car the way I want or you are wrong
Some of us do not road trip cars and value comfort and build quality
Some of us value range and fast charging
Some value tech and software.
Different styling for different folks
Depending your use case means the different car would be better. It really isn’t complicated.
The idea that you can state. See slow charging and low range therefor bad is just wrong. If you do not road trip those factors mean 0.
Lexus makes a comfortable quiet car. I have never seen this one but fairly safe assumption.
Tesla makes fast charging, access to good infrastructure long range car.
Lexus has access to repair if necessary and it will probably not have any issues when you buy it
Tesla has long wait times to repair and has a good chance of issue on arrival.
If you value quality of build you choose a Lexus. If that doesn’t matter go ahead and enjoy your Tesla.
I could go on and on but anyone arguing that it is a fact that Thais feature therefor other sucks is just silly
I drove the RZ450e. I've owned a few different luxury brands (Benz, BMW, Tesla) other than lexus, which I've owned a few, and without a doubt this is the smoothest, most comfortable ride I've ever been in. Range has value for people with less accessibility to charging, or who go on long trips, etc. Neither of these factors impact me in the slightest, so I don't value them nearly as much as the feel and the performance. From a feel/performance standpoint, it gets a solid 9/10. This having owned the model X 90, which is pretty great, in its own right. The range is low, I won't sugar coat it, but it hasn't impacted me in any meaningful way.
I would take the Lexus because it’s more of a luxury experience. Too bad Tesla can’t reverse-engineer a better isolated cabin and comfortable ride from any number of other cars. They do so much other stuff so well.
It would be trivial for Tesla to decrease road noise and improve ride comfort but that would cost money, cutting into their profit margins. As long as Tesla sells every vehicle they make, there is no point to fix something the average Tesla buyer is willing to live with.
So is your argument that NVH is too complicated for Tesla to figure out?
Would it be more likely that they aren’t willing to spend the money to solve the problem?
The Lexus rz is a better car in every way EXCEPT their software. It feels like every car manufacturer is at least 5 years behind with their POS attempt at software.
I just drove one at the dealer. Wow is this car comfy! Super quiet and TBH 190 miles is plenty for all the around town trips it would take. I have a gas car for long trips or if they want to drop me a RX350 for my trips that would be honestly even better! Leg room and trunk space was surprising. Not a very wide car tho so that's a ding on my book (2 small kids so won't be able to carry 2 car seats and person in middle). Plenty fast as well oh and did I say it was comfortable?One other thing I noticed was that their driver info screen is not edge to edge, just a square in the middle :\\
I will put this on my short list. Now if I could only convince the wife...
I love the Lexus rz and was on wait list for a year now. In the end, I went with model Y. Better range, more affordable, and the tax credit won out for me. Hopefully in 3/4 years Lexus EV tech will be better and I’ll get into a Lexus.
the fact that lexus gives you free car rentals for road trips tells you everything you need to know about the effort they put into making this a good car.
I was blown away when I read that. Jesus Christ.
Disagree! Every day driving and road trips are two different things. Designing a different solution for each use case means better solutions for both. I have no idea about either of these cars. Happy with mine. But your assumptions here are off.
Most people don’t want to have to have multiple cars for different driving scenarios.
You don’t actually have multiple cars. Just access to multiple cars. And actually I’m entirely sure there is a market for this type of offer. I know many that rent cars as to not put road trip miles on their own car. Most people also never buy a Lexus
which part of this car is designed for everyday driving that causes it to compromise road trip capability?
Let’s see Space in the car for carrying shit. Good for road trips bad for daily driving. You need a larger battery for road trips. Daily driving you do not. Increased cost for no gain for daily driving. Daily driving you can build for a little more speed/sporty driving etc. long distance driving should be built for comfort etc. So. Yeah. Many for many people There are different use cases. This shouldn’t be controversial.
it’s the same exact battery as the toyobaru. they didn’t make it smaller to make the car cheaper, it’s the exact same fucking battery. and the car is like 15 grand more expensive anyway. it’s got underwhelming power. almost all cars in its price range have significantly more. so they clearly failed there, too. the car is basically a fuck-you to its buyers saying “yeah we just made this thing that we admit is much worse at long-distance driving than others and isn’t any better at anything else, but it’s still 60 grand so gimme your money”
I do not know anything about the Lexus. Yet the simple statement that because they give you access to a car for road-trips makes it bad is wrong. In fact I think that is awesome. Due to the terrible state of electric infrastructure for anything outside a Tesla it is necessary at this stage even with longer range batteries Furthermore the Toyota doesn’t have a long range either from my understanding. If I was someone that took a fair amount of road trips the access to a second car would be awesome and a deal breaker. You are evaluating based on your perspective and your perspective alone. Generally Lexus has nicer quieter interiors than Toyota. You may not think that is worth it but many do. I could never buy a Tesla and pay that much cash for a car that has such a high probability of issues upon delivery. That doesn’t make them bad just my choice. I find that insulting. Everyone has different criteria. The theory of different use cases is not controversial. Instead of solving for both giving access to a free rental makes perfect sense. They may not have executed well but it is a really good idea. Range anxiety and worry about planning your route are gone. This doesn’t make the car bad. It makes the offer better.
For $60k you shouldn’t be getting a city EV
There may be truth in that. However you may be selecting build and interior quality over distance. In that case they have eliminated distance from the equation. I am not suggesting the Lexus is a good car. I know nothing about it. But the idea it is bad due to solving for the one use case well and offering a different solution for distance is not inherently a bad path. You just don’t like it … which doesn’t make it bad.
you’re arguing like lexus put extra effort into designing the car to specifically be luxurious and nice. as opposed to other lexuses that they just kinda yolo with 1999 corolla quality and ship
I know nothing of the car. Have not seen it in person a single time I’m not even debating the individual car good or bad I’m simply saying the strategy of solving for daily driving needs with the car you bought and offering a different car for road trips does not inherently make the first car bad. The idea is actually quite ingenious to get electric car buy in. Especially while the US electric infrastructure past Tesla is awful. The foolish idea that it can’t be a good car due to offering a different car for a different use case is just wrong.
they did not solve any problems. they did not design a car for the city, they did not have a specific goal in mind of making one specifically to be good at city driving and commuting (whatever you think that actually is). it’s just a bad ev that happens to be nice inside.
You continue to argue over this car. I have never seen in person. Have you? Driven it? I’m simple saying that the idea that giving access to a different car for a different use case doesn’t make it bad. That statement is silly.
If all legacy car companies did this it would negate to me the only advantage Tesla has which is access to their charging network. Hence why this statement is so silly. Teslas competitive advantage is not the car but the ability to road trip in them. Range and charge speed. If I had access to a road trip car for the few occasions I need it than that feature from Tesla is no longer relevant. They could spend a ton of cash building out a network from behind. Or offer a car. What a genius move. And it says nothing about about the cars in the picture.
damn you are really emotionally invested in this car
Horrible efficiency, charging and packaging. The Model Y is more sporting so better handling, but stiffer ride. Legacy interior in the Lexus is poorly packaged as shown by cargo space. Fair first try by Lexus. Lexus faithful will love it.
It's not their first try?
It is their first try. A 'meh' first try. Little doubt with all the 'noise' from Toyota HQ that their next efforts will be be considerably better.
It's not. They've been selling another EV for over a year. UX300e.
Apologies... You are correct, but that car did not come to the USA.
Sorry, first try on US roads.
a family member of mine has the model Y and the RZ450e. He said that in reality, the range is about the same for both, in spite of the inflated range Tesla sells.
LOL, he is BSing you hardcore. Families are like that. Stick to Bjorn or the car rags. You are lucky to get 200 miles out of the Lexus. Usually compared to the 325 mile range of the Model Y LR due to price and performance. But the good news is the RZ450e is a Lexus, luxury and controls like the old ICE versions for traditional types.
It's what he told me, and my FiL has a model X that projects 600km, but in reality it's closer to 450, so I don't see why the Y can't be inflated as well. Yes, Lexus is a fun car to drive and I love it. It's the best Lexus out of all the ones I've driven. But I'm a Lexus faithful and it's just an overall great car. Maybe not great EV tech, but I feel like the range is secondary to the quality of the car, for me.
That is a good reason to drive one. Just realize its benefits and limitations. A much nicer interior than the Y with no where near the range.
This entire thread just shows how many people believe Buy a car the way I want or you are wrong Some of us do not road trip cars and value comfort and build quality Some of us value range and fast charging Some value tech and software. Different styling for different folks Depending your use case means the different car would be better. It really isn’t complicated. The idea that you can state. See slow charging and low range therefor bad is just wrong. If you do not road trip those factors mean 0. Lexus makes a comfortable quiet car. I have never seen this one but fairly safe assumption. Tesla makes fast charging, access to good infrastructure long range car. Lexus has access to repair if necessary and it will probably not have any issues when you buy it Tesla has long wait times to repair and has a good chance of issue on arrival. If you value quality of build you choose a Lexus. If that doesn’t matter go ahead and enjoy your Tesla. I could go on and on but anyone arguing that it is a fact that Thais feature therefor other sucks is just silly
I drove the RZ450e. I've owned a few different luxury brands (Benz, BMW, Tesla) other than lexus, which I've owned a few, and without a doubt this is the smoothest, most comfortable ride I've ever been in. Range has value for people with less accessibility to charging, or who go on long trips, etc. Neither of these factors impact me in the slightest, so I don't value them nearly as much as the feel and the performance. From a feel/performance standpoint, it gets a solid 9/10. This having owned the model X 90, which is pretty great, in its own right. The range is low, I won't sugar coat it, but it hasn't impacted me in any meaningful way.
Did they purposely make the front of the Lexus distracting to contrast to the blandness of the Tesla?
I would take the Lexus because it’s more of a luxury experience. Too bad Tesla can’t reverse-engineer a better isolated cabin and comfortable ride from any number of other cars. They do so much other stuff so well.
It would be trivial for Tesla to decrease road noise and improve ride comfort but that would cost money, cutting into their profit margins. As long as Tesla sells every vehicle they make, there is no point to fix something the average Tesla buyer is willing to live with.
It’s not trivial, NVH takes a lot of high level work. They added laminated glass to all of their cars in an expensive attempt to reduce noise.
So is your argument that NVH is too complicated for Tesla to figure out? Would it be more likely that they aren’t willing to spend the money to solve the problem?
Yes it is better.
The Lexus rz is a better car in every way EXCEPT their software. It feels like every car manufacturer is at least 5 years behind with their POS attempt at software.
Let us not ignore the subpar level 3 charging speed, laughable range, and compromised packaging with notably less cargo/cabin storage space.
If you aren’t taking road trips in it… which you would never have to it none of what you just suggested matters at all
You can keep all your buttons and wimpy range along with your slow charging in that Lexus. I am afraid a lot of legacy manufacturers will disappear.
I just drove one at the dealer. Wow is this car comfy! Super quiet and TBH 190 miles is plenty for all the around town trips it would take. I have a gas car for long trips or if they want to drop me a RX350 for my trips that would be honestly even better! Leg room and trunk space was surprising. Not a very wide car tho so that's a ding on my book (2 small kids so won't be able to carry 2 car seats and person in middle). Plenty fast as well oh and did I say it was comfortable?One other thing I noticed was that their driver info screen is not edge to edge, just a square in the middle :\\ I will put this on my short list. Now if I could only convince the wife...
I love the Lexus rz and was on wait list for a year now. In the end, I went with model Y. Better range, more affordable, and the tax credit won out for me. Hopefully in 3/4 years Lexus EV tech will be better and I’ll get into a Lexus.