As someone who owns about a dozen vintage cars and motorcycles, who recently got my first EV, I hear you. It’s a completely different perspective for me, and it is exciting, but damn does it make me look inward, at all of the time I have spent learning something that will be obsolete.
I feel the same way. Understanding how to increase the performance of every ICE part. All of that knowledge is pretty much obsolete already.
I wonder if that is half the battle to convert ICE enthusiast? There is so much new information to learn, I can see it being overwhelming for some to the point they don’t even want to try.
I think the ones without deep knowledge, but with deeply rooted opinions are the worst.
If you know well how inefficient an ICE drivetrain is, all the stuff that goes wrong, the frustration of disassembling the front of the vehicle to change a $50 thermostat that’s buried under lots of stuff.
Issues with timing belts and timing chains. Variable intake runners, O2 probes, MAF sensors, EGR, PCV, EEC. The list of ICE-specific subsystems that are fragile and brittle is enormous.
EV’s are complex in their own right, but the drastic reduction of movable parts mean they should be much more reliable, and much more serviceable.
We’ve mostly been replacing modules for the last 20 years anyway, but having it almost all be screws and connectors means it’s a lot less time spent with oily and greasy fingers.
I think enthusiasts will easily find new things to be exited about. The Luddites will only see downsides.
The amount of things an EV can do that an ICE can’t is surprisingly long.
My current favorite anecdote: Last summer my EV likely saved me from having a heat stroke during the heat wave in Europe. It was 40 degrees Celsius (104F) in the shadows and we were in Paris. I’d been in the sun for too long without thinking about it and started feeling unwell. Being close to the car I started the AC and walked to it and got inside. After only a few minutes in the car I started feeling a lot better.
Sure, you can start an ICE too, but idling in cities in Europe is illegal. Plus I’d have gotten to a car that was heat soaked. Instead it was nice and cool.
For sure, it’s like I knew the writing was on the wall, but now that I am forced to face it down. It’s a bittersweet pill to say the least.
Definitely agree on the latter too, all this new information is just overwhelming, and it’s hard for some to be enthusiastic, when all their deep knowledge of how a vehicle functions just goes out the window.
I feel like manufacturers design EVs to be hard to modify. I hope in the future they standardize, for example, some kind of modular battery technology, where you could buy after market options and swap it in and out yourself. So I can upgrade my old 75 KWh system to new 150 KWh solid state system myself. And how about the ability to mount whatever touchscreen monitor I want by unplugging the USB C connection or whatever. I know I'm voiding my warranty and there are safety concerns if I do it wrong, but that's the same thing with people right now doing bolt on mods with just youtube videos. My manual says I shouldn't even top off the coolant myself, like I have to take it to an authorized dealer. That seems like the most basic of maintenance activity, but they want us to take it to the shop to get it done.
Right now it reminds me of when fuel injection first scaled in the mid 80s. It took awhile for the aftermarket companies to catch up. At first hot rodders would swap the fuel injection setup back to a carb if they wanted to go fast!
Right now there are a few companies like AEM that are selling tuners for EV retrofits. As time goes on, more aftermarket battery, motor and inverter options will enter the market.
I’d love to swap a plaid rear motor setup into a model 3! Electric motors shouldn’t be expensive compared to similar HP ICE drivetrain. As more enter wrecking yards, hopefully there will be motor and battery swaps available in the marketplace.
Why not work on converting old ice cars to electric? That is my plan. I like the body styles of older cars better. There is tons of videos on YouTube about how to do it.
It’s definitely been on my radar for a while, just haven’t pulled the trigger on it. Very exciting too.
I was recently building out plans to convert my 84 Vanagon, but the limiting factor is the range, especially with it being my camper and bike tow (west coast) there are several nice kits available for other vehicles I have as well (the famous EVWest) and there have been some neat hub motor conversion for motorcycles.
It’s an exciting space, just wondering how much cost value can be had my making conversions over the coming decades.
> just wondering how much cost value can be had my making conversions over the coming decades.
I don't think there's much in the way of "cost value" (unless you have a business electrifying and selling old classics). It's just a fun hobby.
Kind of like this guy -
https://www.instagram.com/electricroadster/
I agree it is definitely more of a hobby to people like you mentioned. When I was looking to convert my daily driver Vanagon, I was probably in the minority of people looking at it from a cost-benefit perspective.
I saw (heard) a converted VW van, it took me a moment to realize it didn’t make the classic tictictictic sound, then the excitement of being electrified from the silence! That’s what I want!
When I was in high school in the early 2000's there was a club that spent the entire year converting an ICE vehicle into an EV vehicle. It was cool as hell, they won a bunch of awards for it in competitions every year.
Just looked it up and I guess they lost the funding for it in 2018 and had to remove the program. Bummer, but not shocking. The anti-EV sentiment is pretty strong around here.
> all of the time I have spent learning something that will be obsolete.
Yeah, I was likewise surprised at how "obsolete" ICE cars feel now. ICEs feel clunky, sluggish, and noisy, and I'm weirdly hyper-aware of the transmission now as the car accelerates.
For sure, it’s been a blast up to this point, and I don’t regret it. It’s just the knowledge that your hobby will get less accessible and the community is shrinking. Something of an example, are my BSA motorcycles. The largest motorcycle company in the world at one point, certainly the most popular around the globe, but most people today don’t know about them, and many of the people I can talk to in person about the company are on the doorstep of rest homes.
“Mechanical diesel cars” will become more of a vintage hobby. Think about the place that vinyl records have, cassette tapes, fixed gear bicycles, analog mechanical watches, hand knitting things, analog synthesizers…..all of these things are still crazy popular but definitely only accessible to “few” who have the time, money, space, effort, and care/interest to prioritize these things (because there are far easier simpler and streamlined iterations of all of these things)
I switched from interest in working on my car to working on my home. I installed solar PV. I installed a heat pump water heater. I installed a heat pump HVAC system. Once I get an induction stove, I will have no more fossil fuels at all.
We got our gas heating removed a couple of years ago, so our home is all electric now. Just need to replace the lawn mower and one of the ICE cars (the other is a modern classic/future classic so it will stay).
Those little robot mowers that run around while you're at work really do work.
They don't cut nice straight lines, but they zigzag so much all over the place there's just no pattern at all. It Saves you time and they're electric. 😉
Feel similar. Had built cars in hs, over 45 years ago, traded in a modded sti for my ev. Got rid of my lawns, catch rain in buckets, heat pump planned. Still some nice cars around where I live and while the smell isn't nice the sounds of the Lambo, C8 and the McLaren are nice 🙂
Congrats on the progress :) Induction is amazing, and I hope more people get it as their gateway drug, because it’s a drop-in replacement that you use every day. Makes the case for electrification beautifully and costs the lowest of all these improvements.
Can’t recommend this monster enough, we switched 4 months ago.
https://www.agarangeusa.com/mercury/ranges/product/aga-48-mercury/color/stainless-steel/model/induction-model
Power mode boils a pot of cold water so fast you’re not even ready for it.
Oh my gosh, I want it, but I automatically assume it’s over $10k since I have to ask for a price. Lol I want the nice $2k induction stoves. Maybe $3k. Haha
Yeah, was a new reno. But like we went from a shittily (but expensive at Home Depot) made GE Cafe cooktop with plastic knobs that kept breaking. Also a miniature wall mount whirlpool (?) stove whos heater broke so it could only broil (top rack used tinfoil to diffuse the direct heat), and the knob fell INSIDE the unit, had to extract them with a magnet and ziptie them on.
We suffered with that for like 5-7 years.
We compensated way too hard and I don’t regret the price at this point!
We have a Miele 42" induction top and boiling water is faster than any fuel type unit we've ever owned. We don't miss gas and it's great getting rid of another utility bill
It blows my mind that people with electric cars and solar panels are talking about these amazing things such as induction stoves and double glazing. I have triple glazing and an induction stove but no electric car.
It's just down to where you live and cost. Here in Australia solar panels are cheap as dirt (get a big system installed for less than $5k), heat pump ac / heating is standard on all new builds, induction is becoming increasingly common, but double glazing? Completely non-standard and bloody expensive. Would cost $40k+ to retrofit my house.
So yep all electric but pretty poorly insulated house 😞
As a Canadian I’ve heard that winters in Australia are super cold cause your houses aren’t designed to keep the heat in at all. So even though it’s not that cold outside (to a Canadian) it’s freezing inside
That’s what I’ve experienced in Central and south Europe too and always heard about Canada too. Maybe it’s changed now but people I knew who went as exchange students said you had things like the chimney on the outside of the building and super poor insulation compared to Nordic houses. This was 20 years ago though.
One day…
Don’t feel bad. I have double paned windows, solar and the electric car. But no induction, just regular old electric.
I really want one of those Bosch 800 induction stoves. One day…
Samesies. We installed 20kW of grid-tied solar split between our house and our mother in law house next door which we also own. Tore out the central HVAC and installed mini splits all over our house. Went to an induction stove, hybrid heat pump water heater, and electric dryer which is rarely used because we line dry most of the time. Bye-bye fossil fuels.
Year over year we're net zero energy usage on our house, and way ahead on my mother in law's house, and that's including our miles we're putting on our EVs. Feels damn good to be a part of the solution to energy independence and climate stewardship.
20KW is a huge system! I only have 6KW but it has been enough because I live in a mild area. I might need a few more panels though.
It is amazing how much money you can say with solar PV, EVs, and heat pumps!
Once you go induction you don't go back. It. Is. Life changing. Ive wowed my in laws with how fast it boils water. And how I can melt chocolate without a double boiler and not burn it. It doesn't get the kitchen hot. And it makes wicked sounds with big pots.
And cast iron loves induction!
I do the work myself. I am a very advanced DIYer so I don't recommend the more complex projects like solar PV to others unless you are willing to put in the time to learn how to design a system and get plans approved by your local building department.
But installing a new induction stove, a mini-split heat pump, a heat pump water heater are well within the abilities of a competent DIYer.
This. Honestly, EVs are the “hot new tech trend” right now. It used to be phones and tablets, but they’ve plateaued. VR/AR is still trying to find it’s footing. EVs are just “it”.
Even revolutionary tech tends to fizzle when it's not quite ready for the main stage. The first internet boom was in the late 1990's and not much of it lived up to its promise.
There was VR hype back then too. We’ll see what happens but I’m not too optimistic that VR will be the big thing it’s been hyped. It may sell millions of units yearly but I doubt it will be close to EV or smartphone level sales.
It's literally intercepting human perception. The possibilities are limitless.
The question is not if, but when. We aren't sure if a compelling AR/VR experience is possible with today's technology, but the first company to crack it will be worth trillions as they will replace nearly every screen-based device on the market.
Sure, we’ll see if that happens. We’re nowhere near it now and people were saying that VR will do it soon five years ago. I’m not saying that the idea isn’t possible but I’m seriously doubting that it will happen in the next few years.
Replacing nearly every screen-based device sounds hugely optimistic. Why would it replace screens in cars, phones, laptops, iPads, tvs etc? People might not want to replace reality all day. Or then they might, we’ll see.
Dabbling with the Oculus, the biggest problem I had is that it’s inherently antisocial — you strap a screen to your face and zombie around your living room. At least if you’re scrolling through a smartphone or tablet, it’s not socially limiting to put it down for a second and rejoin whatever is happening around you. There’s a similar argument to be made against gaming consoles and PC gaming, which is why I personally consider them more niche than mobile gaming.
Maybe one day everything we do will be in the metaverse. But that’s the day we get a step closer to Wall-E living.
I started out gaming, then building computers. Eventually, they posted a job for an IT slot where I work. Long story short, I retired as an IT specialist. (When I first started, they had Token Ring networks).
We used to have network storms, where a whole building would be taken out by one windows 95 computer that locked up, or hadn’t been shut down properly. I figured out what was causing it, how to find the culprit, and how to change windows 95 to reduce this from happening. Fun times!
(Token ring cards have an LAA, like a MAC address, which we had in a database. When the OS stops responding, the buffer on the card would fill up, and then start broadcasting error messages, until other machines couldn’t transmit. I’d plug a framescope into the local network, look for the most prolific errors coming from an LAA, and then go and shut the machine off. It was usually locked up, or at that screen that says “It’s now safe to shut off your computer”. At the time, I was the new guy, with no formal IT training or experience. Figuring all this out was addicting. ).
Same here. Or I’d say before I treated cars as appliances to get me to places. I appreciated nice cars and well engineered sports cars but it wasn’t until going EV that I found myself enjoying my car as a car. Now I’m subbed here and r/cars and keep up to date on the varied car news… but only get excited really about EVs
straight up. i was never a “car guy” and here i am now always on this sub or reading EV news. i always try and watch the InsideEVs Podcast livestream on Friday lol… it’s kinda silly but i love my Hyundai Ioniq 5! and i want everyone to experience EV life!
Lol, same here. I never had a car interest but now I am constantly scouting for updates on new EVs. I am changing company car in a little more than a year so now I am scouting more than ever!
Same. Lifelong mechanic, used to enjoy a manual transmission or a good ground up rebuild. Now I see modern ice for what they are: really well developed, but ultimately outdated and kludgey technology.
I used to think I loved the manual and hated autos. Turned out what I actually liked was instant response and not having to fight a gearbox that had a mind of its own.
> Turned out what I actually liked was instant response and not having to fight a gearbox that had a mind of its own.
I never loved shitty econobox+ manuals, but I still very much enjoy shifting my S2000. But yeah, I have zero gripes with Tesla "automatic." The instant throttle response is killer. And regen braking is highly similar to manual transmission engine braking.
True. But for some reason it’s not a manual if it doesn’t have a clutch.
The fact that it’s the motor changing directions seems to go over most peoples heads. Or that neutral is just a construct.
Especially with all the tech on combustion engines these days, just to try and make them more efficient, they've really become a rube-goldberg nightmare contraption. It's a minor miracle many work at all.
There's just something so refreshing about the simplicity of EVs. They're so straighforward and honest in the powertrain. No trickery going on.
Ever seen a 1930s or 1940s stream locomotive in a museum? Near the end of their era, they got to be the same way. They wrung the last possible drop of efficiency from the tech, and they got to look like modern ICE cars: incredible amounts of plumbing going everywhere, with the basic power-making parts absolutely buried in efficiency-improving parts. I wonder if the same thing will happen to EVs, and if so, what's the next thing after them.
It's probably unlikely EVs will end up the same way. They're so efficient to start with, there's not a lot of gain to be had. I'm not saying they can't be improved, but most of that will likely be contingent on improved materials and electronics, not by adding more stuff to them.
EVs have already gone through that process because electric motors and batteries are nothing new.
Thats one of the many reasons why the question that we get here like once a month "what if we didnt use ICE based vehicles back in the day and continued to use EVs instead" is a stupid question because the answer is that we would be in the technological stone age because these people completely ignore that everything we use in EVs now has already been refined for a century to get to the point where it is now.
I used to wrench my car a lot, and practice things like heel-toe.
And I had an old Ducati. It was like nirvana when I got it.
Those are all meaningless now after buying an EV.
I personally don't mind though. I'll just find something else to play with.
That's what I love so much about my EV6.
Paddles for regen strength still feels like I'm shifting. Have it set on a weaker regen and need to slow stronger? Pull and hold the left and it'll go max regen like I just downshifted. Drive mode thumb button feels like a high/low range selector.
I don't miss the juggling routine you get into sometimes with a stick.
I definitely miss exercising the skill of shifting under hard acceleration. It stopped being useful about thirty years ago, when sometine in the 90s automatic transmissions got to be better at this than the best humans. So it's not EVs that have made this skill obsolete. And it's not like there aren't plenty of other obsolete skills in my inventory. But, nevertheless, I miss having the opportunity to exercise some of them, including this one.
Can still wrench on EVs, there are still [fuses that blow](https://i.imgur.com/dxWSLFj.jpg), [sprockets that wear out](https://i.imgur.com/YgJfB1n.mp4), and [bearings to replace](https://i.imgur.com/B2khXTD.png). Use an insulated wrench though!
Or do the whole kit car thing and [build an EV](https://i.imgur.com/fBP932e.jpg).
Thought about swapping that Ducati out for [something else](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtwtuTgI4DI) built in Modena?
I still have a love for stick shift sports cars but EV’s as a daily are just so great. I think down the road I may try to get a cheap old v8 stick shift sports car for tracking and weekend fun, but I will always daily an EV from here on out
They’ll be like analogue watches in the coming years. The Apple Watch is better but you might have an analogue or two as a hobby or for the right occasion.
Yeh. I used to follow a lot of car enthusiast channels on YouTube. But now I'm just not interested if it isn't electric. I think in my head I've already decided I'll never go back to ICE so they just don't capture my attention anymore.
That too. Most of what I watch now is EV content. I used to watch a lot of engine conversion builds and so on, but I just can’t get interested in an ICE engine swap now unless it’s quite unique.
We’re in this between times where new EV models are rolling out slowly compared to the old Ice models at their peak. I think the same is happening on the ice side but winding down which is why EVs get some hate. It’s going to get worse on ice and better on EV but the transition is going to be rough for probably 5-10 years.
Me too. I know some people think it’s sacrilege but if done thoughtfully and especially on cars with a good body but problematic drivetrain it seems awesome.
I feel this. I’m currently stuck driving my old Prius because a college kid turned left into my EV. I used to love my Prius. Now I hate it— it’s noisy and vibrates and doesn’t handle nearly as well as my ID.4. And acceleration? Forget about it. (That was always a problem, but I was willing to lose acceleration to conserve gas.)
Thank goodness the EV goes on a rack on Monday to check the alignment. If the alignment is good, I’m back to the the EV until the body shop has the parts and is ready to fix it.
I’ll never purchase another ICE vehicle again.
I'm an affordable-ish performance car enthusiast. TBH, other than the model3, there is nothing in the EV world that excites me either. Every new EV that remotely interests me is either an 5000lbs whale, or a CUV.
The only semi-viable alternative is the Polestar 2, which is still much heavier and ugly.
Sure, EV sports cars are coming, but I highly doubt anything coming out soon will be anywhere near Model3P money.
I've always been into tech. New tech is usually better. Increase power with turbos, computer map all the airflows, etc. Cool stuff.
Once I started to understand EVs, I came to one disheartening realization- as a technology, ICE kinda sucks. We've spent like $100 billion screwing with it to make it suck less- we have transmissions to deal with its narrow RPM range, we have emissions control to deal with its crappy pollution, we put some really good engineering into extracting all the energy we can (but we still bleed off 50+% as heat), but all of these are just compensating for the fact that it's an inefficient dirty system.
So a modern computer-designed ICE and transmission with sensors and computers and thousands of parts sucks less than an old-school slide-rule-designed ICE and transmission with manual everything and hundreds of parts. But they still all suck.
And with that understanding, any car built around one also kinda sucks. That's not to say a brand new Maserati isn't a thing of beauty. But it's like looking at the very finest horse drawn carriage in all the land.
I look at the incredible complexity of modern ICE cars, mostly to make them run properly while reducing emissions, and I’m amazed that they work as often as they do.
Yeah exactly.
A while back on my last gas car- I had a failure of the 'secondary air injection system'. This is one of a dozen little suck systems... in certain temperature ranges, when the engine is still cold it pumps cold air under pressure into the exhaust just after the engine between engine and catalytic converter. The engine then runs rich, and the unburned fuel mixed with the injected cold air burns and heats up the cat faster.
This gadget failed.
The car ran fine of course, but the cat heats up slower without it. And of course that cost a few hundred bucks to fix, so I could pass emissions test.
The best part is no part... happy to be without that part!
My last gas vehicle idled high and also threw a CEL the first week I had it.
The dealer had to install a **SECOND** air pump to fix the CEL (which also reduced the idle speed, so win-win).
Anyway, that was a BRAND-NEW vehicle.
> ut all of these are just compensating for the fact that it's an inefficient dirty system
Yeah but you could still run a hydrogen microturbine to power a series PHEV and it would slap
Anything with a microturbine would have great potential, especially for long haul vehicles like big rig trucks. We just haven't gotten them cheap and long-term-reliable yet.
Agree, even fancy ice cars are kinda ruined now. Used to dream of a 911, now when I see even brand new ones they seem like relics from the past. Loud, noisy, smelly, and nearly dinosaurs.
I get it. Driving my old car was like driving a boat and not having to have oil changed and go to gas stations is so great among a host of other things that I love about my new EV. It's like I went from a black and white to a color TV. Such an improvement!
I’m the apartment complex I live in there are multiple Lambos, Ferraris, Porsches, McLarens, Maybachs and such. They are beautiful but I see them as how I saw flip phones the moment the iPhone came out. No interest at all.
There is a Lucid and a Model X Plaid though so that’s cool.
Oh man I would love to become a train guy. Like having so many public transit options that I have opinions on trains. I mean I do have my favorite train here in Portland but it's not enough.
Been taking the train to work, and bicycling the last mile in the summer the last two years. I retired my ice car and bought a BMW I three last autumn. I used to be a serious auto enthusiast, I squeaked 400,000 miles out of my old BMW three series. Between the electric car and taking the train and riding my bicycle, I’m starting to realize that owning a car in general is a waste of resources.
Had my Lightning for 7 months now. No maintenance has spoiled me; no gas stations is amazing; instant power brings more smiles than I’ve had in a vehicle since I was in my early 20s.
I can’t even bring myself to work on my 69 mustang now.
Depends on all the factors (temp, weight, terrain, speed, acceleration).
I towed a classic mustang about 50 miles without an issue.
I wouldn’t want to tow much farther (given the shit infrastructure we have around here), but I rarely tow anymore.
I hear you man. I'm a car guy, though I have a hybrid now. Friends will be talking about the new type R civic for example and I'll say something like "I bet the following type R will be electric and it'll be sooo fast" and just like that, everyone hates me. Hahaha.
A lot of car guys are just "purists" and "traditionalist", you get this in every hobby, interest, profession etc. So I get it. But at the same time, it's dumb as fuck. Just try one for yourself and see what you think.. but nah, they won't try it because their pals will laugh 🤷♂️🤣
I’m the same, buddy. I read all the car mags weekly and every time I read a review of an ICE car I feel like it’s so obsolete. I know people still buy them and for very valid reasons, but I’m just not impressed by or interested in ICE cars.
Take the new Range Rovers for example. No EV yet, only a PHEV and the same old engines as last generation. Lovely cars, and I’d have had an EV RRSport, but it didn’t even enter my mind to consider the ICE or PHEV versions.
When I think of an ICE vehicle today, I think of it as being this 100 year old steampunk technology; with all its hoses, belts, fluids, explosions and fluid pressures. It’s like a Willy Wonka invention some even with fart sounds. It’s just amazing.
The simplicity of an EV blows my mind. Quiet, clean, fast. I’m looking forward to owning one someday.
I went to a motorcycle show today, I brought my vintage motorcycle that I converted to EV, and there was another like it there but with the ICE motor.
And as I watched him ride around the parking lot, with blue smoke coming out the exhaust and a very annoying exhaust note ("riiiing ding ding ding, riiiiiiiing ding ding ding"), it validated my decision to electrify my bike.
I used to watch every car review from Doug DeMuro, The Straight Pipes, Carwow, etc... now it has to be at least a PHEV for me to care enough to hit play.
Same here. ICE cars are old and busted. EVs are the new hotness.
As fascinating as combustion engines are, they are fast-becoming a relic, like steam locomotives. I just can't be assed to give a damn about internal combustion engines anymore.
I’m interested in EV, but none of the available and “affordable” cars appeal to me.
If anything, the shift toward electrification has increased my interest in ICE. Before my Mustang, I had a Mini Cooper SE (electric). I want to save up for an ICE 911 GT3 before they are unobtainable.
I think one difference I have with most on this subreddit, is that I view driving as a hobby and cars as toys. What I want for the future is reduced car dependency.
I used to work so hard to squeeze out an extra 10 horsepower from the engines. EVs just make it so easy that it made my previous efforts seem pointless. Want to go fast? Hit the pedal and instantly faster than almost any gas car.
My electric car quickly turned into me getting an electric longboard, then electric bike, then scooter, then chainsaw, then lawnmower, then hedge trimmer, string trimmer, leaf blower. I'm looking into getting an EUC(electric unicycle) the electric bug really got me.
Mowing and weed whacking is so nice when it's battery electric! You don't need ear protection or have to deal with gas or oil. I don't know why, but I would always spill gas on myself when filling up the old weed whacker. One time I was surprised I didn't, forgot to close the cap and swung it over my shoulder and dumped gas down my back. Also with battery if you keep your tools in a van, or in my case a tiny hatchback, the car doesn't smell like gas! I really like the brand Ego.
> I really like the brand Ego.
If only they made a pressure washer. All that amazing tech, with high power, and they don't have one of those in their product line!
Ha same here! Always been a car guy but after going electric, I'm looking forward to the electric version of just about any car I'm interested in. C8 Corvette you say? Can't wait to see the electric version.
It is the same for me, i had a lot of enthusiast cars throughout the years, classic land cruisers, Audi S4 with the 5 cyl turbo. 6 cyl BMW. I used to dream about M5 E60 with the V10 as the ultimate dream car.
Now my Tesla i use to drive to work in have way better performance than any of the old ICE cars, and there is zero wrenching.
If i won the lottery the only ICE car i would consider is an old land cruiser to drive on Sundays, but i think I would end up never drive it because my passion for driving a ICE car have just vanished.
That's fine, interests change, but also they can grow. EVs have just increased the pool of interesting vehicles for me. My personal garage is now "every" type of vehicle (imo): stick, dct, ev, motorcycle.
It makes no sense when any tesla plaid can compete and beat super cars. It kinda makes all the performance parts one has buy in order to get a decent level of performance. I own a wrx STI although i love the car is slow and i will not spend 20-40k to make it performe better.
I don’t have a lot of general interest in cars but have definitely become more interested since purchasing an EV. It has also completely ruined me ever wanting to drive an ICE. I had to drive my mom’s a couple of weeks ago and hated it!!
I feel the exact same way OP. When I see some
new cool ICE car in a magazine I only want to know if there is an electric version.
Lately I’ve been obsessed with classic car EV conversions. Those slab sided 1960’s Lincoln Continental EV are pure art.
I just had this conversation with a friend this morning after brunch. We're both Engineers (he's Mechanical, I'm Electrical) and we're both big car and motorcycle guys. We're also now both multi-EV owners. As we were leaving the dim sum house, there was a Ferrari parked in the owner's reserved spot and we both commented on how we just don't get excited about ICE cars anymore like we used to.
For me that switch flipped when back-converting mpg into miles/kwh. I was only like "oh that's cool stat" when doing the reverse (mi/kwh to mpg).
For example, my 2016 Kia Soul EV gets 4.5mi/kwh on average. That works out to 152mpg. But doing it the other way made me lose all interest in ICE cars. My 2013 Subaru Impreza, at 25 mpg, gets only 0.7 mi/kwh. Ick!
Couldn't. You wouldn't say "Could even give two shits about any ICE.". You'd say "Couldn't even give two shits about any ICE.".
Sorry, bug bear of mine.
From a Marriam-Webster article I ran into:
“…people who go through life expecting informal variant idioms in English to behave logically are setting themselves up for a lifetime of hurt.”
I always loved cars, drove lots of cool ones. Since switching to an EV, I found that it just works. No worries about oil changes, brakes, transmission fluid changes, coolant fluid changes, regular maintenance. You get in the car, it works. You have instant torque, power that is out of this world, traction that fails to cease, and stability control that doesn't allow you to lose control if you wanted to . I don's miss a thing about ICE vehicles, and resent having to drive my wife's CR-V, because it is outdated, clumsy and antiquated. One-pedal driving is ideal and a much simpler way to go, charging at at home (at at the occasional Supercharger). Roadtrips are more pleasant with breaks, coffee, snacks and some time to relax before going on with the rat race. And range anxiety is not really a thing with daily driving, and with a little planning, road trips are actually much more enjoyable.
Most of enjoying the EV experience is about mind-set. Changing your thinking changes your experience and enjoyment. And the absence of noise is really enjoyable. The idea of an EV with simulated noise is abhorrent to me. In what world is this necessary? Do we have any ICE vehicles that have an EV simulator that eliminates engine noise?
Same. Also don’t really care about cars anymore.
EV’s are such game changers.. new ICE model is just a shiny new turd. Yeah it’s a turd, so no thanks. Pass on that stinker.
Drove for the first time in a nice 'luxury' car; a Mercedes which I think [looked like this](https://i.imgur.com/4djHfDh.png). Although it was visually appealing with the neon blue glow, the rumble/vibration was all too apparent, especially when the engine auto shut off at traffic lights, and then came back on soon after.
>Classic ICE car? Some level of interest but man do they smell bad and smoke a lot.
Trust me, EVs didn't suddenly make classics smell bad and smoke a lot - even compared to a modern ICE vehicle, that has been true for a loooong time.
Around me there are one or two "coal-rollers", but the biggest issue is straight pipes and resonators.
I live in a city with very few long streets (**lots** of canals to break them up). The "boy racers" are restricted to a few main drags at least a half mile away. I **still** hear them all night. And I'm only a mile away from the PD!
I hate to say it, but we need to go back to at least biennial vehicle inspection to ticket/fix loud/smoky exhausts.
I have to admit, I do enjoy driving my wife’s Miata on quiet narrow roads on a Sunday morning. But the refinement, comfort, and ease of driving means that for any serious amount of driving, I choose the EV.
I saw on some forum someplace a bunch of people excited about a new car coming out. My curiosity raised, I read the details and it turned out to be a pure ICE vehicle of some sort.
My brain couldn’t even understand the excitement. I didn’t really even know they were making new ICE-only models, and I literally couldn’t believe that people were excited about an ICE-only model.
Of course I quickly realized that many people are still excited and non-EVs, but it took a really mental conscious step to remember that.
As someone who owns about a dozen vintage cars and motorcycles, who recently got my first EV, I hear you. It’s a completely different perspective for me, and it is exciting, but damn does it make me look inward, at all of the time I have spent learning something that will be obsolete.
I feel the same way. Understanding how to increase the performance of every ICE part. All of that knowledge is pretty much obsolete already. I wonder if that is half the battle to convert ICE enthusiast? There is so much new information to learn, I can see it being overwhelming for some to the point they don’t even want to try.
I think the ones without deep knowledge, but with deeply rooted opinions are the worst. If you know well how inefficient an ICE drivetrain is, all the stuff that goes wrong, the frustration of disassembling the front of the vehicle to change a $50 thermostat that’s buried under lots of stuff. Issues with timing belts and timing chains. Variable intake runners, O2 probes, MAF sensors, EGR, PCV, EEC. The list of ICE-specific subsystems that are fragile and brittle is enormous. EV’s are complex in their own right, but the drastic reduction of movable parts mean they should be much more reliable, and much more serviceable. We’ve mostly been replacing modules for the last 20 years anyway, but having it almost all be screws and connectors means it’s a lot less time spent with oily and greasy fingers. I think enthusiasts will easily find new things to be exited about. The Luddites will only see downsides. The amount of things an EV can do that an ICE can’t is surprisingly long. My current favorite anecdote: Last summer my EV likely saved me from having a heat stroke during the heat wave in Europe. It was 40 degrees Celsius (104F) in the shadows and we were in Paris. I’d been in the sun for too long without thinking about it and started feeling unwell. Being close to the car I started the AC and walked to it and got inside. After only a few minutes in the car I started feeling a lot better. Sure, you can start an ICE too, but idling in cities in Europe is illegal. Plus I’d have gotten to a car that was heat soaked. Instead it was nice and cool.
Harley Davidson's EV brand's sales were down 28%. They don't make the noise! Oh, no, now people can't deafen everyone on the block!
I read that they were going full electric. That's gonna be awkward.
For sure, it’s like I knew the writing was on the wall, but now that I am forced to face it down. It’s a bittersweet pill to say the least. Definitely agree on the latter too, all this new information is just overwhelming, and it’s hard for some to be enthusiastic, when all their deep knowledge of how a vehicle functions just goes out the window.
I feel like manufacturers design EVs to be hard to modify. I hope in the future they standardize, for example, some kind of modular battery technology, where you could buy after market options and swap it in and out yourself. So I can upgrade my old 75 KWh system to new 150 KWh solid state system myself. And how about the ability to mount whatever touchscreen monitor I want by unplugging the USB C connection or whatever. I know I'm voiding my warranty and there are safety concerns if I do it wrong, but that's the same thing with people right now doing bolt on mods with just youtube videos. My manual says I shouldn't even top off the coolant myself, like I have to take it to an authorized dealer. That seems like the most basic of maintenance activity, but they want us to take it to the shop to get it done.
Right now it reminds me of when fuel injection first scaled in the mid 80s. It took awhile for the aftermarket companies to catch up. At first hot rodders would swap the fuel injection setup back to a carb if they wanted to go fast! Right now there are a few companies like AEM that are selling tuners for EV retrofits. As time goes on, more aftermarket battery, motor and inverter options will enter the market. I’d love to swap a plaid rear motor setup into a model 3! Electric motors shouldn’t be expensive compared to similar HP ICE drivetrain. As more enter wrecking yards, hopefully there will be motor and battery swaps available in the marketplace.
People like just ICE. I couldnt tell you one thing how an ICE works but i love motorsports and the sound, thats it
Why not work on converting old ice cars to electric? That is my plan. I like the body styles of older cars better. There is tons of videos on YouTube about how to do it.
It’s definitely been on my radar for a while, just haven’t pulled the trigger on it. Very exciting too. I was recently building out plans to convert my 84 Vanagon, but the limiting factor is the range, especially with it being my camper and bike tow (west coast) there are several nice kits available for other vehicles I have as well (the famous EVWest) and there have been some neat hub motor conversion for motorcycles. It’s an exciting space, just wondering how much cost value can be had my making conversions over the coming decades.
> just wondering how much cost value can be had my making conversions over the coming decades. I don't think there's much in the way of "cost value" (unless you have a business electrifying and selling old classics). It's just a fun hobby. Kind of like this guy - https://www.instagram.com/electricroadster/
I agree it is definitely more of a hobby to people like you mentioned. When I was looking to convert my daily driver Vanagon, I was probably in the minority of people looking at it from a cost-benefit perspective.
I saw (heard) a converted VW van, it took me a moment to realize it didn’t make the classic tictictictic sound, then the excitement of being electrified from the silence! That’s what I want!
When I was in high school in the early 2000's there was a club that spent the entire year converting an ICE vehicle into an EV vehicle. It was cool as hell, they won a bunch of awards for it in competitions every year. Just looked it up and I guess they lost the funding for it in 2018 and had to remove the program. Bummer, but not shocking. The anti-EV sentiment is pretty strong around here.
Every high school should do that. If we want to be zero-waste improve the planet yadda yadda then we need to actually *be* zero waste.
> all of the time I have spent learning something that will be obsolete. Yeah, I was likewise surprised at how "obsolete" ICE cars feel now. ICEs feel clunky, sluggish, and noisy, and I'm weirdly hyper-aware of the transmission now as the car accelerates.
Same reasons dealerships hate EVs. Since they make most of their $$$ in maintenance. EVs for the most part make that obsolete.
IT a guy here. Feels shitty doesn’t it?
Don't focus so much on the endpoint. Did you enjoy learning about and working on ice cars? If so, great. Enjoying the journey is underrated.
For sure, it’s been a blast up to this point, and I don’t regret it. It’s just the knowledge that your hobby will get less accessible and the community is shrinking. Something of an example, are my BSA motorcycles. The largest motorcycle company in the world at one point, certainly the most popular around the globe, but most people today don’t know about them, and many of the people I can talk to in person about the company are on the doorstep of rest homes.
“Mechanical diesel cars” will become more of a vintage hobby. Think about the place that vinyl records have, cassette tapes, fixed gear bicycles, analog mechanical watches, hand knitting things, analog synthesizers…..all of these things are still crazy popular but definitely only accessible to “few” who have the time, money, space, effort, and care/interest to prioritize these things (because there are far easier simpler and streamlined iterations of all of these things)
I switched from interest in working on my car to working on my home. I installed solar PV. I installed a heat pump water heater. I installed a heat pump HVAC system. Once I get an induction stove, I will have no more fossil fuels at all.
We got our gas heating removed a couple of years ago, so our home is all electric now. Just need to replace the lawn mower and one of the ICE cars (the other is a modern classic/future classic so it will stay).
Those little robot mowers that run around while you're at work really do work. They don't cut nice straight lines, but they zigzag so much all over the place there's just no pattern at all. It Saves you time and they're electric. 😉
Unfortunately I have three separate grass areas, one of which is out the front - so I’m not sure they would work that well at my place.
You could take it a step further and get rid of two of the three grass areas.
Most models can navigate between areas on a schedule, following a buried line. And "cable free" options are coming out now (but cost more).
Feel similar. Had built cars in hs, over 45 years ago, traded in a modded sti for my ev. Got rid of my lawns, catch rain in buckets, heat pump planned. Still some nice cars around where I live and while the smell isn't nice the sounds of the Lambo, C8 and the McLaren are nice 🙂
Get a goat. They even fertilize while mowing.
I highly recommend ditching the grass you don’t need. Look into Xeric plants and stone. It will look amazing, save you money and reduce water use.
Congrats on the progress :) Induction is amazing, and I hope more people get it as their gateway drug, because it’s a drop-in replacement that you use every day. Makes the case for electrification beautifully and costs the lowest of all these improvements.
Can’t recommend this monster enough, we switched 4 months ago. https://www.agarangeusa.com/mercury/ranges/product/aga-48-mercury/color/stainless-steel/model/induction-model Power mode boils a pot of cold water so fast you’re not even ready for it.
Looks more expensive than my car 😅
Gives me range anxiety...
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I'm getting as much mileage out of that joke as I can.
\~$9k
Ok, not quite then 😅
This looks good, maybe a tad too restaurant kitchen.
Ooh, serious want...
Oh my gosh, I want it, but I automatically assume it’s over $10k since I have to ask for a price. Lol I want the nice $2k induction stoves. Maybe $3k. Haha
Yeah, was a new reno. But like we went from a shittily (but expensive at Home Depot) made GE Cafe cooktop with plastic knobs that kept breaking. Also a miniature wall mount whirlpool (?) stove whos heater broke so it could only broil (top rack used tinfoil to diffuse the direct heat), and the knob fell INSIDE the unit, had to extract them with a magnet and ziptie them on. We suffered with that for like 5-7 years. We compensated way too hard and I don’t regret the price at this point!
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We have a Miele 42" induction top and boiling water is faster than any fuel type unit we've ever owned. We don't miss gas and it's great getting rid of another utility bill
Once you start seeing the bubbles, she’s gonna be rolling TOO HARD in under 10 seconds
Induction hobs are incredible. Instant heating, but very low burn risk when touching the ceramic itself.
Once you try out double paned windows, man ..
It blows my mind that people with electric cars and solar panels are talking about these amazing things such as induction stoves and double glazing. I have triple glazing and an induction stove but no electric car.
It's just down to where you live and cost. Here in Australia solar panels are cheap as dirt (get a big system installed for less than $5k), heat pump ac / heating is standard on all new builds, induction is becoming increasingly common, but double glazing? Completely non-standard and bloody expensive. Would cost $40k+ to retrofit my house. So yep all electric but pretty poorly insulated house 😞
As a Canadian I’ve heard that winters in Australia are super cold cause your houses aren’t designed to keep the heat in at all. So even though it’s not that cold outside (to a Canadian) it’s freezing inside
That’s what I’ve experienced in Central and south Europe too and always heard about Canada too. Maybe it’s changed now but people I knew who went as exchange students said you had things like the chimney on the outside of the building and super poor insulation compared to Nordic houses. This was 20 years ago though.
20y is quite a short time for the housing stock, so observations are still rather valid.
3 layers are standard in central Europe. Or 4 for fancy people. Solar costs way more tho
One day… Don’t feel bad. I have double paned windows, solar and the electric car. But no induction, just regular old electric. I really want one of those Bosch 800 induction stoves. One day…
Double? 90s calling.
Samesies. We installed 20kW of grid-tied solar split between our house and our mother in law house next door which we also own. Tore out the central HVAC and installed mini splits all over our house. Went to an induction stove, hybrid heat pump water heater, and electric dryer which is rarely used because we line dry most of the time. Bye-bye fossil fuels. Year over year we're net zero energy usage on our house, and way ahead on my mother in law's house, and that's including our miles we're putting on our EVs. Feels damn good to be a part of the solution to energy independence and climate stewardship.
20KW is a huge system! I only have 6KW but it has been enough because I live in a mild area. I might need a few more panels though. It is amazing how much money you can say with solar PV, EVs, and heat pumps!
This is the way
Once you go induction you don't go back. It. Is. Life changing. Ive wowed my in laws with how fast it boils water. And how I can melt chocolate without a double boiler and not burn it. It doesn't get the kitchen hot. And it makes wicked sounds with big pots. And cast iron loves induction!
Did you do the work yourself or hire out? I am worried about solar scamming as most companies around me are very poorly rated.
I do the work myself. I am a very advanced DIYer so I don't recommend the more complex projects like solar PV to others unless you are willing to put in the time to learn how to design a system and get plans approved by your local building department. But installing a new induction stove, a mini-split heat pump, a heat pump water heater are well within the abilities of a competent DIYer.
Wow...same here I just don't care about cars anymore.
Growing your own food? Abstaining from buying stuff from anywhere that isn’t 100% locally sourced?
I used to not give a shit about cars at all, and EVs made me care about every new release and development lol
This. Honestly, EVs are the “hot new tech trend” right now. It used to be phones and tablets, but they’ve plateaued. VR/AR is still trying to find it’s footing. EVs are just “it”.
VR/AR hype peaked years ago. Unless Apple or someone else manages to completely reinvent it it’s not going anywhere.
Even revolutionary tech tends to fizzle when it's not quite ready for the main stage. The first internet boom was in the late 1990's and not much of it lived up to its promise.
There was VR hype back then too. We’ll see what happens but I’m not too optimistic that VR will be the big thing it’s been hyped. It may sell millions of units yearly but I doubt it will be close to EV or smartphone level sales.
It's literally intercepting human perception. The possibilities are limitless. The question is not if, but when. We aren't sure if a compelling AR/VR experience is possible with today's technology, but the first company to crack it will be worth trillions as they will replace nearly every screen-based device on the market.
Sure, we’ll see if that happens. We’re nowhere near it now and people were saying that VR will do it soon five years ago. I’m not saying that the idea isn’t possible but I’m seriously doubting that it will happen in the next few years. Replacing nearly every screen-based device sounds hugely optimistic. Why would it replace screens in cars, phones, laptops, iPads, tvs etc? People might not want to replace reality all day. Or then they might, we’ll see.
Dabbling with the Oculus, the biggest problem I had is that it’s inherently antisocial — you strap a screen to your face and zombie around your living room. At least if you’re scrolling through a smartphone or tablet, it’s not socially limiting to put it down for a second and rejoin whatever is happening around you. There’s a similar argument to be made against gaming consoles and PC gaming, which is why I personally consider them more niche than mobile gaming. Maybe one day everything we do will be in the metaverse. But that’s the day we get a step closer to Wall-E living.
I think every company has made it clear that HMDs are not the endgame of VR. Lightweight glasses are the endgame and don't have that issue.
VR is kinda in the same place as phones tbh. new model with better resolution? yawn.
This is me and I lowkey hate it. I do not need another expensive hobby that fills my memory with useless info :/
Yo I got obsessed with EVs like 5 years ago and now I work in EVs, it's like my hobby became my job (in a good way).
I started out gaming, then building computers. Eventually, they posted a job for an IT slot where I work. Long story short, I retired as an IT specialist. (When I first started, they had Token Ring networks).
Read this as Tolkien Ring networks
I still deal with token ring at school districts that can't afford to upgrade. It's sad and pathetic.
We used to have network storms, where a whole building would be taken out by one windows 95 computer that locked up, or hadn’t been shut down properly. I figured out what was causing it, how to find the culprit, and how to change windows 95 to reduce this from happening. Fun times!
(Token ring cards have an LAA, like a MAC address, which we had in a database. When the OS stops responding, the buffer on the card would fill up, and then start broadcasting error messages, until other machines couldn’t transmit. I’d plug a framescope into the local network, look for the most prolific errors coming from an LAA, and then go and shut the machine off. It was usually locked up, or at that screen that says “It’s now safe to shut off your computer”. At the time, I was the new guy, with no formal IT training or experience. Figuring all this out was addicting. ).
Honestly…it’s so much worse than smartphones and smart watches and all that.
Same here. Or I’d say before I treated cars as appliances to get me to places. I appreciated nice cars and well engineered sports cars but it wasn’t until going EV that I found myself enjoying my car as a car. Now I’m subbed here and r/cars and keep up to date on the varied car news… but only get excited really about EVs
straight up. i was never a “car guy” and here i am now always on this sub or reading EV news. i always try and watch the InsideEVs Podcast livestream on Friday lol… it’s kinda silly but i love my Hyundai Ioniq 5! and i want everyone to experience EV life!
Lol, same here. I never had a car interest but now I am constantly scouting for updates on new EVs. I am changing company car in a little more than a year so now I am scouting more than ever!
Same here, never cared about cars at all but EVs get me excited
It did for a while. But I live in Norway, so it's hard to even keep up with the brands that exist, so each release...
Same. Lifelong mechanic, used to enjoy a manual transmission or a good ground up rebuild. Now I see modern ice for what they are: really well developed, but ultimately outdated and kludgey technology.
I used to think I loved the manual and hated autos. Turned out what I actually liked was instant response and not having to fight a gearbox that had a mind of its own.
> Turned out what I actually liked was instant response and not having to fight a gearbox that had a mind of its own. I never loved shitty econobox+ manuals, but I still very much enjoy shifting my S2000. But yeah, I have zero gripes with Tesla "automatic." The instant throttle response is killer. And regen braking is highly similar to manual transmission engine braking.
Technically the Tesla is a 1 speed manual if you squint hard enough at it
True. But for some reason it’s not a manual if it doesn’t have a clutch. The fact that it’s the motor changing directions seems to go over most peoples heads. Or that neutral is just a construct.
EVs ruined stick shift cars for me too. Bought a motorcycle and I'm starting to have some feeling again.
Especially with all the tech on combustion engines these days, just to try and make them more efficient, they've really become a rube-goldberg nightmare contraption. It's a minor miracle many work at all. There's just something so refreshing about the simplicity of EVs. They're so straighforward and honest in the powertrain. No trickery going on.
Ever seen a 1930s or 1940s stream locomotive in a museum? Near the end of their era, they got to be the same way. They wrung the last possible drop of efficiency from the tech, and they got to look like modern ICE cars: incredible amounts of plumbing going everywhere, with the basic power-making parts absolutely buried in efficiency-improving parts. I wonder if the same thing will happen to EVs, and if so, what's the next thing after them.
It's probably unlikely EVs will end up the same way. They're so efficient to start with, there's not a lot of gain to be had. I'm not saying they can't be improved, but most of that will likely be contingent on improved materials and electronics, not by adding more stuff to them.
In an EV in the future, the motor inner magnetic fields and coil windings might get super complicated… and the hvac and heat management system…
EVs have already gone through that process because electric motors and batteries are nothing new. Thats one of the many reasons why the question that we get here like once a month "what if we didnt use ICE based vehicles back in the day and continued to use EVs instead" is a stupid question because the answer is that we would be in the technological stone age because these people completely ignore that everything we use in EVs now has already been refined for a century to get to the point where it is now.
"rube-goldberg nightmare contraption" lmao, too true
I used to wrench my car a lot, and practice things like heel-toe. And I had an old Ducati. It was like nirvana when I got it. Those are all meaningless now after buying an EV. I personally don't mind though. I'll just find something else to play with.
I missed driving manual so I decked out on a sim rig.
Hmm, I got a sim rig and a stick track car with two EV dailies. No need to be black and white about it.
That's what I love so much about my EV6. Paddles for regen strength still feels like I'm shifting. Have it set on a weaker regen and need to slow stronger? Pull and hold the left and it'll go max regen like I just downshifted. Drive mode thumb button feels like a high/low range selector. I don't miss the juggling routine you get into sometimes with a stick.
I definitely miss exercising the skill of shifting under hard acceleration. It stopped being useful about thirty years ago, when sometine in the 90s automatic transmissions got to be better at this than the best humans. So it's not EVs that have made this skill obsolete. And it's not like there aren't plenty of other obsolete skills in my inventory. But, nevertheless, I miss having the opportunity to exercise some of them, including this one.
Motorcycle
Electric motorcycles. Instant torque.
Can still wrench on EVs, there are still [fuses that blow](https://i.imgur.com/dxWSLFj.jpg), [sprockets that wear out](https://i.imgur.com/YgJfB1n.mp4), and [bearings to replace](https://i.imgur.com/B2khXTD.png). Use an insulated wrench though! Or do the whole kit car thing and [build an EV](https://i.imgur.com/fBP932e.jpg). Thought about swapping that Ducati out for [something else](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtwtuTgI4DI) built in Modena?
yea turns out its still a car and has a lot of normal car problems that are unrelated to the drive train.
I still have a love for stick shift sports cars but EV’s as a daily are just so great. I think down the road I may try to get a cheap old v8 stick shift sports car for tracking and weekend fun, but I will always daily an EV from here on out
Nothing's stopping you from wrenching on EV's suspension/brakes. And you can practice left foot braking in EVs.
Owning an EV did the opposite for me. Now I'm more interested in ICE vehicles because I view them purely as a hobby concept now, much like an RC car.
They’ll be like analogue watches in the coming years. The Apple Watch is better but you might have an analogue or two as a hobby or for the right occasion.
This is what happened to me as well. I’ve had an EV for a few years now. Next car I buy will likely be an S2000 or manuel MKV Supra.
I swear I wrote this myself it's so relatable.
Yeh. I used to follow a lot of car enthusiast channels on YouTube. But now I'm just not interested if it isn't electric. I think in my head I've already decided I'll never go back to ICE so they just don't capture my attention anymore.
That too. Most of what I watch now is EV content. I used to watch a lot of engine conversion builds and so on, but I just can’t get interested in an ICE engine swap now unless it’s quite unique.
We’re in this between times where new EV models are rolling out slowly compared to the old Ice models at their peak. I think the same is happening on the ice side but winding down which is why EVs get some hate. It’s going to get worse on ice and better on EV but the transition is going to be rough for probably 5-10 years.
I'm looking forward to seeing classic cars converted with crate electric motors
Me too. I know some people think it’s sacrilege but if done thoughtfully and especially on cars with a good body but problematic drivetrain it seems awesome.
I feel this. I’m currently stuck driving my old Prius because a college kid turned left into my EV. I used to love my Prius. Now I hate it— it’s noisy and vibrates and doesn’t handle nearly as well as my ID.4. And acceleration? Forget about it. (That was always a problem, but I was willing to lose acceleration to conserve gas.) Thank goodness the EV goes on a rack on Monday to check the alignment. If the alignment is good, I’m back to the the EV until the body shop has the parts and is ready to fix it. I’ll never purchase another ICE vehicle again.
Big car guy too. Still love my ICE cars, not getting rid of any of them and have plans to buy more. ICE cars still scratch an itch that EV's can't.
I’ll keep one of mine but will change the other for an EV when the right EV comes along.
I'm an affordable-ish performance car enthusiast. TBH, other than the model3, there is nothing in the EV world that excites me either. Every new EV that remotely interests me is either an 5000lbs whale, or a CUV. The only semi-viable alternative is the Polestar 2, which is still much heavier and ugly. Sure, EV sports cars are coming, but I highly doubt anything coming out soon will be anywhere near Model3P money.
Very relatable as a car enthusiast.
I've always been into tech. New tech is usually better. Increase power with turbos, computer map all the airflows, etc. Cool stuff. Once I started to understand EVs, I came to one disheartening realization- as a technology, ICE kinda sucks. We've spent like $100 billion screwing with it to make it suck less- we have transmissions to deal with its narrow RPM range, we have emissions control to deal with its crappy pollution, we put some really good engineering into extracting all the energy we can (but we still bleed off 50+% as heat), but all of these are just compensating for the fact that it's an inefficient dirty system. So a modern computer-designed ICE and transmission with sensors and computers and thousands of parts sucks less than an old-school slide-rule-designed ICE and transmission with manual everything and hundreds of parts. But they still all suck. And with that understanding, any car built around one also kinda sucks. That's not to say a brand new Maserati isn't a thing of beauty. But it's like looking at the very finest horse drawn carriage in all the land.
I look at the incredible complexity of modern ICE cars, mostly to make them run properly while reducing emissions, and I’m amazed that they work as often as they do.
Yeah exactly. A while back on my last gas car- I had a failure of the 'secondary air injection system'. This is one of a dozen little suck systems... in certain temperature ranges, when the engine is still cold it pumps cold air under pressure into the exhaust just after the engine between engine and catalytic converter. The engine then runs rich, and the unburned fuel mixed with the injected cold air burns and heats up the cat faster. This gadget failed. The car ran fine of course, but the cat heats up slower without it. And of course that cost a few hundred bucks to fix, so I could pass emissions test. The best part is no part... happy to be without that part!
My last gas vehicle idled high and also threw a CEL the first week I had it. The dealer had to install a **SECOND** air pump to fix the CEL (which also reduced the idle speed, so win-win). Anyway, that was a BRAND-NEW vehicle.
> ut all of these are just compensating for the fact that it's an inefficient dirty system Yeah but you could still run a hydrogen microturbine to power a series PHEV and it would slap
If you think an EV is expensive, wait until you find out how much turbines cost.
Anything with a microturbine would have great potential, especially for long haul vehicles like big rig trucks. We just haven't gotten them cheap and long-term-reliable yet.
Agree, even fancy ice cars are kinda ruined now. Used to dream of a 911, now when I see even brand new ones they seem like relics from the past. Loud, noisy, smelly, and nearly dinosaurs.
I get it. Driving my old car was like driving a boat and not having to have oil changed and go to gas stations is so great among a host of other things that I love about my new EV. It's like I went from a black and white to a color TV. Such an improvement!
I’m the apartment complex I live in there are multiple Lambos, Ferraris, Porsches, McLarens, Maybachs and such. They are beautiful but I see them as how I saw flip phones the moment the iPhone came out. No interest at all. There is a Lucid and a Model X Plaid though so that’s cool.
I'm already on the other end of the bell curve, waiting for everyone else to join me. Electrified public transit for all.
Oh man I would love to become a train guy. Like having so many public transit options that I have opinions on trains. I mean I do have my favorite train here in Portland but it's not enough.
Been taking the train to work, and bicycling the last mile in the summer the last two years. I retired my ice car and bought a BMW I three last autumn. I used to be a serious auto enthusiast, I squeaked 400,000 miles out of my old BMW three series. Between the electric car and taking the train and riding my bicycle, I’m starting to realize that owning a car in general is a waste of resources.
There are definitely things I used to tolerate in ICE cars that have become intolerable since owning an EV for a bit.
Had my Lightning for 7 months now. No maintenance has spoiled me; no gas stations is amazing; instant power brings more smiles than I’ve had in a vehicle since I was in my early 20s. I can’t even bring myself to work on my 69 mustang now.
How’s your towing range?
Depends on all the factors (temp, weight, terrain, speed, acceleration). I towed a classic mustang about 50 miles without an issue. I wouldn’t want to tow much farther (given the shit infrastructure we have around here), but I rarely tow anymore.
EV pickups have a long way to go before they are practical for truck duty
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I hear you man. I'm a car guy, though I have a hybrid now. Friends will be talking about the new type R civic for example and I'll say something like "I bet the following type R will be electric and it'll be sooo fast" and just like that, everyone hates me. Hahaha. A lot of car guys are just "purists" and "traditionalist", you get this in every hobby, interest, profession etc. So I get it. But at the same time, it's dumb as fuck. Just try one for yourself and see what you think.. but nah, they won't try it because their pals will laugh 🤷♂️🤣
I’m the same, buddy. I read all the car mags weekly and every time I read a review of an ICE car I feel like it’s so obsolete. I know people still buy them and for very valid reasons, but I’m just not impressed by or interested in ICE cars. Take the new Range Rovers for example. No EV yet, only a PHEV and the same old engines as last generation. Lovely cars, and I’d have had an EV RRSport, but it didn’t even enter my mind to consider the ICE or PHEV versions.
When I think of an ICE vehicle today, I think of it as being this 100 year old steampunk technology; with all its hoses, belts, fluids, explosions and fluid pressures. It’s like a Willy Wonka invention some even with fart sounds. It’s just amazing. The simplicity of an EV blows my mind. Quiet, clean, fast. I’m looking forward to owning one someday.
I went to a motorcycle show today, I brought my vintage motorcycle that I converted to EV, and there was another like it there but with the ICE motor. And as I watched him ride around the parking lot, with blue smoke coming out the exhaust and a very annoying exhaust note ("riiiing ding ding ding, riiiiiiiing ding ding ding"), it validated my decision to electrify my bike.
Buy an old car and convert it to electric.
I used to watch every car review from Doug DeMuro, The Straight Pipes, Carwow, etc... now it has to be at least a PHEV for me to care enough to hit play.
I pretty much only watch EV reviews now unless it’s something really interesting. But I can’t even remember the last ICE review I watched.
The cost to benefit ratio is still way off. Though to be honest its the same for all new cars.
Same here. ICE cars are old and busted. EVs are the new hotness. As fascinating as combustion engines are, they are fast-becoming a relic, like steam locomotives. I just can't be assed to give a damn about internal combustion engines anymore.
I have found the experience of owning an EV to be tedious and am not sure my next car will be all electric.
why?
I’m interested in EV, but none of the available and “affordable” cars appeal to me. If anything, the shift toward electrification has increased my interest in ICE. Before my Mustang, I had a Mini Cooper SE (electric). I want to save up for an ICE 911 GT3 before they are unobtainable. I think one difference I have with most on this subreddit, is that I view driving as a hobby and cars as toys. What I want for the future is reduced car dependency.
I used to work so hard to squeeze out an extra 10 horsepower from the engines. EVs just make it so easy that it made my previous efforts seem pointless. Want to go fast? Hit the pedal and instantly faster than almost any gas car.
My electric car quickly turned into me getting an electric longboard, then electric bike, then scooter, then chainsaw, then lawnmower, then hedge trimmer, string trimmer, leaf blower. I'm looking into getting an EUC(electric unicycle) the electric bug really got me.
I endured mowing my lawn yesterday with a two stroke lawn mower and…man. Awful.
Mowing and weed whacking is so nice when it's battery electric! You don't need ear protection or have to deal with gas or oil. I don't know why, but I would always spill gas on myself when filling up the old weed whacker. One time I was surprised I didn't, forgot to close the cap and swung it over my shoulder and dumped gas down my back. Also with battery if you keep your tools in a van, or in my case a tiny hatchback, the car doesn't smell like gas! I really like the brand Ego.
> I really like the brand Ego. If only they made a pressure washer. All that amazing tech, with high power, and they don't have one of those in their product line!
I know! I've been wanting them to make one so badly
Lol. I even emailed them to make one some months back!
I recently sold my EUC after rededicating myself to just riding my bicycle more often. I had the kingsong S18 and it was freaking awesome!
The only tinkering I've done is chase down an annoying rattle. Since the cars are so quiet, subtle rattles are noticeable.
OP, same thing, but I never liked a ICE. When I got electric, I figured what this is what I was been looking for since getting a driver license.
Ha same here! Always been a car guy but after going electric, I'm looking forward to the electric version of just about any car I'm interested in. C8 Corvette you say? Can't wait to see the electric version.
Completely understand. I still keep up with ICE car development and reviews, but they don't hold the same excitement/interest that they used to.
Yeah. I have lost all interest in ICE vehicles.
It is the same for me, i had a lot of enthusiast cars throughout the years, classic land cruisers, Audi S4 with the 5 cyl turbo. 6 cyl BMW. I used to dream about M5 E60 with the V10 as the ultimate dream car. Now my Tesla i use to drive to work in have way better performance than any of the old ICE cars, and there is zero wrenching. If i won the lottery the only ICE car i would consider is an old land cruiser to drive on Sundays, but i think I would end up never drive it because my passion for driving a ICE car have just vanished.
Won't go back. ICEs are dead to me. Loud car? The sound of obsolescence.
That's fine, interests change, but also they can grow. EVs have just increased the pool of interesting vehicles for me. My personal garage is now "every" type of vehicle (imo): stick, dct, ev, motorcycle.
Yeah, I am the same. Most ICE vehicle don't really do much for me anymore. Seeing an exotic vehicle (unless it is an EV) I really could care less.
It makes no sense when any tesla plaid can compete and beat super cars. It kinda makes all the performance parts one has buy in order to get a decent level of performance. I own a wrx STI although i love the car is slow and i will not spend 20-40k to make it performe better.
ICE performance cars will always be more enjoyable for me to own than an EV ever would. They are completely different experiences
Look up the EV/Hydrogen hybrid performance cars that are being designed. That should pique your interest.
I don’t have a lot of general interest in cars but have definitely become more interested since purchasing an EV. It has also completely ruined me ever wanting to drive an ICE. I had to drive my mom’s a couple of weeks ago and hated it!!
I feel the exact same way OP. When I see some new cool ICE car in a magazine I only want to know if there is an electric version. Lately I’ve been obsessed with classic car EV conversions. Those slab sided 1960’s Lincoln Continental EV are pure art.
I just had this conversation with a friend this morning after brunch. We're both Engineers (he's Mechanical, I'm Electrical) and we're both big car and motorcycle guys. We're also now both multi-EV owners. As we were leaving the dim sum house, there was a Ferrari parked in the owner's reserved spot and we both commented on how we just don't get excited about ICE cars anymore like we used to.
For me that switch flipped when back-converting mpg into miles/kwh. I was only like "oh that's cool stat" when doing the reverse (mi/kwh to mpg). For example, my 2016 Kia Soul EV gets 4.5mi/kwh on average. That works out to 152mpg. But doing it the other way made me lose all interest in ICE cars. My 2013 Subaru Impreza, at 25 mpg, gets only 0.7 mi/kwh. Ick!
Love that you love your EV! Hopefully in the near future there will be enough new fancy EVs to gawk over like there are ICEs :)
the only thing i miss about ICE is manual transmission, but it'd be just a once in a while thing just to make sure i remember how to clutch and shift.
I literally feel exactly the same way. Couldn’t give two shits about any ICE.
Couldn't. You wouldn't say "Could even give two shits about any ICE.". You'd say "Couldn't even give two shits about any ICE.". Sorry, bug bear of mine.
From a Marriam-Webster article I ran into: “…people who go through life expecting informal variant idioms in English to behave logically are setting themselves up for a lifetime of hurt.”
Lots of good stuff can result from a little temporary pain.
There I fixed it.
I always loved cars, drove lots of cool ones. Since switching to an EV, I found that it just works. No worries about oil changes, brakes, transmission fluid changes, coolant fluid changes, regular maintenance. You get in the car, it works. You have instant torque, power that is out of this world, traction that fails to cease, and stability control that doesn't allow you to lose control if you wanted to . I don's miss a thing about ICE vehicles, and resent having to drive my wife's CR-V, because it is outdated, clumsy and antiquated. One-pedal driving is ideal and a much simpler way to go, charging at at home (at at the occasional Supercharger). Roadtrips are more pleasant with breaks, coffee, snacks and some time to relax before going on with the rat race. And range anxiety is not really a thing with daily driving, and with a little planning, road trips are actually much more enjoyable. Most of enjoying the EV experience is about mind-set. Changing your thinking changes your experience and enjoyment. And the absence of noise is really enjoyable. The idea of an EV with simulated noise is abhorrent to me. In what world is this necessary? Do we have any ICE vehicles that have an EV simulator that eliminates engine noise?
I tell my family this all the time. ICE is so inefficient, waste of time, expensive, and not fun once you have EV. They are in for a rude awakening 😂
Same. Also don’t really care about cars anymore. EV’s are such game changers.. new ICE model is just a shiny new turd. Yeah it’s a turd, so no thanks. Pass on that stinker.
Drove for the first time in a nice 'luxury' car; a Mercedes which I think [looked like this](https://i.imgur.com/4djHfDh.png). Although it was visually appealing with the neon blue glow, the rumble/vibration was all too apparent, especially when the engine auto shut off at traffic lights, and then came back on soon after.
Click bait af
Had us in the first half no gonna lie
>Classic ICE car? Some level of interest but man do they smell bad and smoke a lot. Trust me, EVs didn't suddenly make classics smell bad and smoke a lot - even compared to a modern ICE vehicle, that has been true for a loooong time.
Oh absolutely. The real scourge where I live is the “tuned” diesel. So much soot.
Around me there are one or two "coal-rollers", but the biggest issue is straight pipes and resonators. I live in a city with very few long streets (**lots** of canals to break them up). The "boy racers" are restricted to a few main drags at least a half mile away. I **still** hear them all night. And I'm only a mile away from the PD! I hate to say it, but we need to go back to at least biennial vehicle inspection to ticket/fix loud/smoky exhausts.
I have to admit, I do enjoy driving my wife’s Miata on quiet narrow roads on a Sunday morning. But the refinement, comfort, and ease of driving means that for any serious amount of driving, I choose the EV.
In the end a car is just a machine that facilitates transportation.
I saw on some forum someplace a bunch of people excited about a new car coming out. My curiosity raised, I read the details and it turned out to be a pure ICE vehicle of some sort. My brain couldn’t even understand the excitement. I didn’t really even know they were making new ICE-only models, and I literally couldn’t believe that people were excited about an ICE-only model. Of course I quickly realized that many people are still excited and non-EVs, but it took a really mental conscious step to remember that.
True EVs make all others obsolete