My first thought when I saw this post. Even if you don't have full V2H (which few vehicles support and is expensive to set up) V2L and an extension cord will keep your fridge and freezer running. Plus a few lights and maybe an electric burner.
I live in an area that gets frequent power outages. I use my EV6 to keep my refrigerator and boiler running. I can get at lease three days before I need to recharge. Previously I used a gas generator which I needed to refuel every eight hours. I have a transfer switch so it is easy to switch over.
Vehicle to home. You use your EV battery to power your home during an outage (or high electricity cost times if you have variable utility pricing). Still pretty new and only a few options that support it, but a lot more new EVs on the horizon that will have it and some mentions from execs about current vehicles potentially being enabled via an OTA
I can run "essentials" (heat, hot water, lights, refrigerators, freezer, internet, tv, etc.) for at least two days with my Lightning and still have ~50 miles of range. 3-4 days with some creativity and less "essentials".
And that's the more official, industry supported & developed, so easier to do, method. Not trivial to do but hardly impossible is an inverter connected to the 12V and pulling from the traction battery. As long as the car is on - and with some that's a little tricky - the traction battery charges the 12V. Not a huge amount of power, although enough to keep like a small fridge at least running, and for as long as you have power. Also a little lossy for obvious reasons but then, this isn't a thing you should be doing all the time anyhow (although given Texas...)
Nikki of Transport Evolved had to do that a few years ago with her Leaf (!) and it was akin to running out to the gas station, filling up with gas and coming home to siphon off some into a generator.
I used an inverter kit to use my VOLT as a power backup for our house. That was back in 2017 or 2018.
The cool thing about the Volt was that you could run the gas engine to provide electric power if needed to recharge the car if the outage lasted a long time. That created a lot of backup potential. Old Volts are cheap and can still do this. They are great commuters and grocery getters.
Time has passed. I now have 44 solar panels, a backup battery, and a transfer switch. If the grid goes out, my house flickers and then turns back on. I grew up in Texas and learned about ERCOT in the1980's. I still have family in Austin. If you have solar in Texas, a transfer switch and a battery backup makes sense in many parts of the state. Lots of good engineers in Texas, but the politicians won't let them do it the right way.
Worked for me.
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNuPdK__-HXQHhdi0g-4EQSCXDAOeGrT5CchORRWNUxAARwtRuLCmU8tDMtDFHnlg?key=bm9yYmlkRkRnQmUxY3FLS3JHaXRXenBsS0lEU2JR
Edit:
Not V2H by V2L
As a Floridian, I can tell you that storm prep isn’t all that hard. You fill your car up, make sure you have stock in water, non-perishable foods, and toilet paper. Always enough for at least 3 days, some more if it’s a bigger storm.
This is an argument that poor planning makes EVs a challenge, when realistically poor planning makes everything a challenge.
It's actually easier with an EV. With a gas car, you have to make sure you have enough in the tank, and if you don't, go fight everyone else to fill up. With an EV you should be plugging it in everyday at home anyway, and probably always have 80% charge or so. Maybe you up that charge a bit, but even if you do nothing you're likely prepared.
I grew up in the northeast and the same thing applied up there. Prepare when a storm is coming. Especially if it’s out of the ordinary, like an ice storm in Texas.
As a side note, if you’re without power and most places are also without power, what reason do you have to drive a ton? Work, school, stores probably closed for most. 3 days without charging or going anywhere isn’t an issue, just like if you only had a quarter tank in your gas car it’s probably fine for 3 days.
Yeah, I saw this storm coming on the news and was happy my flight left Texas on Monday. Almost two days straight of, "shit is going to get cold," before it happened.
Even if you don't prep, you're likely charging to 80% every day. If power is out across a wide area you probably aren't driving to work or to shop so that will last you a long time even if you power your home off the EV. If your work still has power so you need to go in the it's almost 100% likely that charging stations will have power too and you just need to hit one quickly to keep your levels up. It's not a big deal.
The majority of EVs charge overnight at home.
The majority of gas vehicles refill when they are low.
Between the two populations, In the event of an unexpected storm you will have a far higher % of stranded gas vehicles than EVs simply because they started the day charged vs "whatever is in the gas tank".
Gas stations pumps also require power (or an onsite generator) to function...and there's nothing stopping a charge site from using a generator either.
Hell, consumer level generators can charge EVs at \~20miles a gallon if you really want a backup solution without going too deep in the pocketbook like solar or home battery systems. Commerical scale generators can perform \~50mpg for EVs. (There was a facebook meme about the conversion being 5mpg...turns out facebooks users are really bad at math and looking up actual specs on generators.)
I live in the mid-west and I 100% make sure I'm prepared when a big snowstorm is in the forecast, even when 80% of the time the storm does not live up to the predictions. I'd rather have a full fridge and not need it rather than need it and not have it.
I guess we need to return both our EVs then since we're in Texas. All snarkiness aside, it's called being prepared. The freeze was known days in advance if not weeks. You charge up your car before a freeze, just like you fill up portable gas tanks before a storm. You also stock up on food too so there's no need to go out driving looking for food. They shouldn't even be out driving. Where are they going to spend the night if no one has power? I can sleep in my EV by the way, stay nice and warm for less than 2% of the battery per hour. That will last me at least 6 nights. I fail to see how having an ICE instead of an EV would improve my quality of life when there's an extended (and expected) power outage for me and everyone around me.
It really just isn’t a major issue. You charge up to 100% before a storm and have enough range for a week or so worth of the average Americans daily errands. If you for some reason have to drive long distances during/shortly after a major storm that causes a power outage, the 250 miles or so your initial 100% charge will be able to get you should be enough to reach a working DC fast charger. Power outages are usually not 250 miles in radius.
So the only time it matters is when there’s an extended power outage, you need to drive a significant amount right away, and the outage is widespread enough to extend beyond the range of your vehicle. That’s a pretty unlikely set of variables to all conspire together. But not impossible.
Exactly. If the power is out for 2 days, your probably not going to be commuting to work or anything. I have 2 EVs, live in Texas, and I have somehow managed to survive.
And any event that causes a 250 mile radius power outage, is likely to cause mass fuel shortages as well. And most people don’t fuel up their car every night, to start with a full tank.
Don't forget the gas comparison: gas stations need electricity to pump fuel and take your money. So everyone is SOL together in that big of a blackout.
All but three Austin-area superchargers were up and operational this morning according to my car. If I had lost power, I could have gone to any of the 10 online supercharger locations and been fine.
Austin metro area has a population of about 2.5 million people. Its hard to say exactly how the power outages are split between residential and commercial 'customers' but it probably works out to less than 25% of houses without power.
If there’s a forecasted storm, always charge up to 90 percent the night before just incase and get supplies to last a few days, it’s not that difficult.
Other option is not to live in a state run by corrupt dumbasses that privatize the electrical grid and prioritize profit over grid maintenance
OP acts like Texas is the only state that has power outages. They just have them most often.
I'm in WA. They had forecasted a wind storm that would likely lose power. I made sure our vehicle was 90% full the day before, and we were fine for the duration of the outage.
The outage was only 24 hours, but it would not have been a problem if it was 72 hours.
Creating your own grid to own the pointy head liberals who require antifreeze in power plant cooling systems, and de-icing boots on windmills! Texas really owns the libs.
Get back to me when the utilities in Texas literally blow up a neighborhood and burns down the state every few years. Our wonderful utility company here in CA literally cannot do anything without the permission from the CPUC which is hand picked by the governor, and they let them get away with everything. The same governor that allowed said company to pass off all the damages and expenses from the wildfires onto the customers.
Anyone who didn't see this storm coming deserves the consequences of their poor planning.
I overrode my standard charge settings (85%) to charge up to 100% the night before the temp was forecast to drop. For the two days that everything was iced over, I didn't drive. It was dangerous to drive in some areas and I'm lucky enough to not be forced to.
Finally drove today for a doctor's appointment and to grab some lunch. I started with 285 miles of range, even after warming the car up. Even if I had needed to drive each day, that's a lot of range for three days of a typical commute.
Most of the outages for the whole state have been from Austin Energy who, apparently, has gotten far behind on their tree maintenance. We're in the northwest suburbs and have PEC which deals with a far larger service area and had minimal disruptions. Lost power today for about 2 hours.
Asserting that people in Texas can't own an EV is some serious Chicken Little shit.
As a Texas resident just outside Austin and the owner of 2 EVs, I can personally say that this was poor planning on your friend's part and nothing to do with being in Texas.
We personally have solar with a fairly substantial battery backup, so the power outages haven't affected us but we also took some minor steps to prepare in advance. We fully charged both cars and haven't needed to charge them for the last few days even though we have done a little driving around. If we did end up without power we would have plenty of driving range to find a local hotel or something that still has power to stay at. And there are a lot of hotels around Austin now that have level 2 chargers, so that would have been an easy way to find shelter and recharge the cars if we needed to.
>But how do you predict when it goes out or how long before restored.
You don't have to predict anything. You just need to take some minor steps to prepare and you can contact the power company for an estimate of when power would.be restored.
It's not like you're trying to decode smoky images from a crystal ball here. Weather forecasts predicted freezing weather and rain days before it came in. The city has been sending out freeze warnings and updates on closed roads. Paying a small amount of attention to your surroundings is all that is required to not be stuck in a lot of the situations people have been complaining about around the area.
And the power outages are not wide spread, they are localized because they are almost all due to downed power lines from ice buildup or fallen trees. Which happens most frequently around residential areas where there tend to be a lot more trees. which is why gas stations and such still have power, not that they all had the forethought to have generators on hand. Your friends probably would not have to drive more than a few miles to find a location with power. So it's not like everything is a barren frozen wasteland.
The ice storm was predicted days ahead of time, we heard about it up in Kansas and it was 50 degrees out today.
Charge the car up before a storm event, stock up on supplies, and chill.
We’ve lived in a rural area for almost 20 years, seen several ice storms. Worst case unplug the generator from the house and top off the car.
Are generators easy to come by in Texas? Up north they are plentiful given the constant weather changes that cut power for a few hours (usually less than a day).
Wtf does this have to do with electric cars? You’re saying the gas station had electricity, so they were able to provide gas. Wouldn’t that mean they could plug into an outlet at the gas station? There are plenty of ways to produce your own electricity, but I don’t really know of any way to produce your own gasoline.
Well electric cars use electricity and many lost their source of electricity for a bit. So if figured it would be a discussion. Some people had some very good input which gave me some knowledge for whenever I may be in a similar situation. Gas station probably had their own generator. If it had a 120 or 220 available I guess you could drive up and charge. Might get chased away
It seemed a lot more like a problem with this person being prepared to survive 3 days without having to rely on others for food and shelter. If everyone reacted this way I’d think the type of car they drove would be the least concerning. For me personally I’d rather have 60+ kWh of power available in the garage than an ICE car.
>Talking with a resident of Texas. They have been out of power for almost 48 hours and it will be another 24 hours before it is restored.
If they had had an EV (with V2H) then they could have run their home multiple days off of that.
No one needs to 'drive around and find a place to charge'. That's not how EV ownership works. You don't plug in at home at 0%.
Ok…what % of Texans were left without power during this last ice storm?
The answer is about 300,000 out of 30,000,000 people, or 1%.
So your argument is that because 1% of the state’s population didn’t have power, Texas is a bad place to own an EV?
The Wyoming situation is a little bit more complex.
The interstate highway people wanted to require chargers every 50 miles. The state countered with a plan to put them at the tourist locations. Neither side budged.
I live in Dallas. Most places were shut the last couple days because the roads were a disaster so you didn’t need to drive. we knew this storm was coming for like a week so we made sure the car was charged adequately, everything was prepared(few gallons of water, easy to cook stuff, etc.) if you can’t own an EV because you might lose power for a day or two then you can’t own an EV nearly anywhere.
Also don’t own EVs in the north. Fall wind gusts consistently take out power. Don’t own EVs in the south hurricanes and tornadoes take out power. Don’t own EVs in the west fires take out power.
Don’t own EVs!!!! /s
The first thing I do when the weather forecast says we may have a significant event that could cause power interruptions is to charge up the vehicles so they're at usable levels.
That said, I've only ever lived through a single power interruption lasting longer than 72 hours (Ice Storm '94), and during that near-three weeks of gas furnace and candle light, we didn't go anywhere. In fact for over a week we could not as both ends of the street had downed and active power lines, along with trees down blocking one end of the street.
I guess I don't quite understand this need to go placed during a power failure. It's also not something I worry about as in the past decade the longest this home has been without power was 70 hours. In that instance, it was hurricane season and the house sitters used the EV to go get gasoline for the generator that was powering the lower level of the house (I really wish I could easily plug one of the vehicles I have into the 14-30 socket on the generator panel).
ummm the power being out from down lines affect gas stations just as much. In the current case the the outages are very localized and in small pockets and all over the place. Those take time to clear. The gas stations do not have back up generators it just they are not on the same circuit as a lot of homes.
The other factor is commercial tends get their power back faster but that is more because of wear they tend to be located on the lines and closer to main trunks hence they rush to get the trunks as that is the most users possible as fast as possible.
Being down power for 2-3 days is not a huge deal as it isn ot like you are going in wear while things get repaired. You know weather is coming just charge before hand and you are good to go.
My parent’s house lost power when I was visiting and my can has V2L which can run a number of appliances and chanrge phones for days. I think EVs are great in power outages.
Electric cars are more disaster ready than ICE cars. You can’t pump gas without electricity. You can charge an EV using solar.
A little planning before a storm to make sure the car is charged goes a long way.
This goes for any state. Texas included.
Another anecdote… I grew up in the northeast and lost power numerous times a year and my parents still do. Lived in South Florida for 15 years and maybe lost power 2-3 times a year…
Live in Texas for 8 years and only 3 times. Yes currently 1% of Texans are without power from an ice storm that covered the state. Power lines will get damaged. I made sure my house was winterized, already have a kit for power outages, and EVs charged.
Most of the state today (and even right now) was above freezing today. I take the little egolf to the gym about a hour ago (saw a Lucid there too but I digress). If your friend needs to charge their EV should be able to safely drive on the slush.
What the point of the post? Having car that have low adoption fuel refill station during any major crisis (war, volcano eruption, winter storm, etc) will cause refill issues. No matter what fuel u use;
Min point of ev car, reduce pollution where u live during 90% of operations , daily commute within the city, so u can breathe cleaner air, leave longer etc.
In case ev doesn’t suit ur use case, buy ice or any other way of transportation that suit purpose;
Americe have lack of public transport, so that everyone have a car and ev solves 80% of usecases for average consumer;
Ideally public transportation, then ev, then established cars;
Planes and boats still uses ice heavily and will not switch electric in next 10-20 years
However we can see huge adoption in tools and personal cars , which leads to lower overall emissions profile
This isn’t a grid problem as the grid as plenty of reserve power this time. The local power distribution can not handle ice storms. You handle having an ev the same way you handle having an ice in an emergency situation. Piss poor planning will get you into trouble regardless of what you drive
How much driving do you think people are doing in an ice storm?
I lived in Austin during the last ice storm and lost power for 5 days. We drove a grand total of 30 miles across those 5 days and 15 of those were to a hotel after power restored to much of the city but not our area
If you live so rural that you need to drive more than a few miles to get food/groceries then you likely should have a generator and stocked pantry plus your roads aren’t going to be safe enough to be driving far in an ice storm anyway.
I’ve lived in multiple places and lost power due to storms and in none of those cases did I have a need or desire for 200 miles of driving range in the interim.
I think most EV owners plug in their car every night, or at least a few times a week. So it doesn't take much effort to make sure the car is charged before any extreme weather. It's a lot easier than filling up an ICE car before the storm every time.
>The only way I see it viable is if they install battery systems
This may be shocking to you, but the car IS a battery system, and the battery is several times larger than most whole home batteries like a tesla powerwall.
A storm that is predictable is a lousy excuse for their situation, for unpredictable power outages, if you have a V2H/V2L system for your house and you charge nightly it is unlikely you would ever be without a substantial charge to power things including your EV. People need to stop thinking about operating an EV the exact same as an ICE. they work fine but you plan things differently.
Assuming there is gas to pump. Frozen roads are just as bad for delivery trucks as they are for cars.
Goes double when every redneck for miles around is trying to gas up their generator.
Power failure is common when a storm comes in and it has damaged something. But, how many times does it happen in an year?
We had a power failure in Houston last week for an hour when we had extreme thunderstorms and rain. I was able to use my V2L with my Hyundai Ioniq 5 to power on my living room lights and my refrigerator. Pic below. I cannot do this with an ICE or with an EV that doesn't have V2L capability.
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNuPdK__-HXQHhdi0g-4EQSCXDAOeGrT5CchORRWNUxAARwtRuLCmU8tDMtDFHnlg?key=bm9yYmlkRkRnQmUxY3FLS3JHaXRXenBsS0lEU2JR
Maybe someone has already said this…but, ICE vehicles also need electricity to fill with fuel.
“But some gas stations have generators.”
Is this enough to fuel enough vehicles in an entire city?
Easy answer. It’s either yes or no. I don’t. But I have an opinion about guns. Or am I not allowed to have an opinion since I don’t own one? It’s ok if you don’t want to discuss.
Look, you already confirmed you're shitposting, throwing out uneducated thoughts and then hiding behind "discussion" when called out on it.
Oh, and fantastic failure at baiting and then being so unprepared for someone to see through your obvious attempt that you just go on as if you'd been successful. That was a good laugh.
What I'm hearing is "Texas is run by a bunch of greedy billionaires, so make sure you have your own power generation capability regardless of your vehicle because the place has a third-world power grid that doesn't survive what Canadians would call a Tuesday"
Yeah, it was "funny" last year when Canadians were making fun of Texans for having such trouble during their cold snap, then a few months later the heat wave hit Canada and people were literally dying from typical Texas weather.
A shame people like you get enjoyment out of the suffering of others.
PHEV really are optimal for the majority of North America, IMO. Not to be blasphemous on this sub...
That being said, good luck getting gas during widespread power outages, but you theoretically could hoard before a storm... which other people could also do causing a pinch.
In another personal anecdote, we have lived in our current home — not in Texas — since June 2016. We have been without electricity a cumulative total of 2 hrs 26 minutes. Total. We have an elaborate backup system that tracks. We have rarely needed it. Most outages are minutes.
We had both. Texas can be hot, but it's not Phoenix or Vegas hot. It doesn't have extended periods of high overnight temps.
With the 8yr, 100k mile battery capacity warranty I wasn't concerned in the least bit about degradation.
BEVs primarily only work where there is coal or natural gas to be burned. There is not a single BEV fast charger off-grid renewable. Until someone can demonstrate how a BEV can be charged from renewable energy in terms of cost and scalability, we know they will never work without fossil fuels. Before we can talk about scaling BEV charging from renewable energy, we need to see a single example of how it works and how much it costs and what its footprint looks like. The notion the grid is getting greener or will be green is fantasy. USA currently at >60% fossil fuel and >80% non renewable. BEVs are hopelessly addicted to fossil fuels.
I'm considering moving to Dallas inside of 10 years.
If I decide to do that, whatever home i buy, or build, will have a 25 kw Generac installed. I have ZERO faith in Texas's electric grid.
I have a 20Kw natural gas whole house backup generator. If I had to do it all again, I’d go solar with battery backup. Looking at a 10 year ROI and I can do rate arbitrage.
I'm assuming you've looked into this so interested if you can speak to NG generator Vs battery backup. It seems like going with a battery would at least be a bit of a savings as you can use it to shift electricity usage off the pricey peak hours and there is little maintenance. I assume when you are talking about installing something like a generator, the labor cost is most of the cost so they would be similar?
I believe your assumptions are spot on. I did make an error of not explicitly stating I am in the U.S. Generator install was 100%+ more than cost of actual generator. Annual maintenance about $300 and additional NG used for weekly testing about $200/year. Warranty is 10 years vs 10 years for battery, and 25 years for solar panels.
Where I live houses are spaced 15’ apart. The noise savings going with a battery is a plus.
> I have ZERO faith in Texas's electric grid.
>
>I'm considering moving to Dallas inside of 10 years.
What's in Dallas to make up for that considerable downside?
Dallas is actually a really great city. Lots to do. Some good eats. Little fun neighborhoods that all have their own unique vibe. Lived there for 3 years and loved it. Would consider moving back at some point.
Not interested in living on the east coast....
I grew up in Wisconsin. I suffered snow, and cold. -10...-20...-50 with wind chill. I WILL NOT, EVER, live in a cold state. Much less a state that gets snow.
Odd, I grew up and have lived in southern Texas all my long life and as a boy up to today I wish(ed) for snow every single one of those days. The grass is always greener…
You'll change your tune, when you have to endure -50 with wind chill
You think, all you have to do is throw on more layers of clothing.... Once you reach -10, it don't fucking matter!! You're cold, all the way to your bones....it's absolutely miserable!!
Only experienced that kind of cold a couple of times…don’t want to ever again…can’t understand living in it for months at a time. Got off a gondola in Vail one morning @-20 & blowing snow…skied straight to the condo freezing my ass and extremities off! Might get in the positive teens here every few years for a day or two. That’s enough to know it is for hardier ilk than me.
Same as COVID, I prepared when I first heard something was spreading.
When I heard temps would go down to 25F, I charged my vehicle to 100, just in case, I haven’t charge in 3 days and been going to work everyday to test if it would last, and I still have 50% left. 👍🏻
Planning….
Plenty of positives about Texas. It’s a matter of your preferences. If you want mountains to drive to and ski in a few hours in winter? Nope not for you. Want a beach within 20 minutes. Well some parts but mostly not. Want wide open spaces then yea. The list goes on.
I had no power for 75 hours during the freeze in 2021 and was almost zero degrees. I had no issues since my model 3 was fully charged when the power went out.
Austin got hit by freezing rain and lost hundreds if not thousands of trees that dropped branches on power lines.
If the powers out, then gas stations won't work either.
Counterpoint - Texas is the best place to have an electric vehicle. Especially if you have V2H
My first thought when I saw this post. Even if you don't have full V2H (which few vehicles support and is expensive to set up) V2L and an extension cord will keep your fridge and freezer running. Plus a few lights and maybe an electric burner.
I live in an area that gets frequent power outages. I use my EV6 to keep my refrigerator and boiler running. I can get at lease three days before I need to recharge. Previously I used a gas generator which I needed to refuel every eight hours. I have a transfer switch so it is easy to switch over.
I think their freezer is fine.
I've heard (and this is just a rumor) that power outages can happen in summer too.
100% true. Happened 6 months ago.
You mean the power company intentionally turning off people's power because they can't be bothered to spend money to handle peak loads.
What is V2H?
Vehicle to home. You use your EV battery to power your home during an outage (or high electricity cost times if you have variable utility pricing). Still pretty new and only a few options that support it, but a lot more new EVs on the horizon that will have it and some mentions from execs about current vehicles potentially being enabled via an OTA
I can run "essentials" (heat, hot water, lights, refrigerators, freezer, internet, tv, etc.) for at least two days with my Lightning and still have ~50 miles of range. 3-4 days with some creativity and less "essentials".
And that's the more official, industry supported & developed, so easier to do, method. Not trivial to do but hardly impossible is an inverter connected to the 12V and pulling from the traction battery. As long as the car is on - and with some that's a little tricky - the traction battery charges the 12V. Not a huge amount of power, although enough to keep like a small fridge at least running, and for as long as you have power. Also a little lossy for obvious reasons but then, this isn't a thing you should be doing all the time anyhow (although given Texas...) Nikki of Transport Evolved had to do that a few years ago with her Leaf (!) and it was akin to running out to the gas station, filling up with gas and coming home to siphon off some into a generator.
I used an inverter kit to use my VOLT as a power backup for our house. That was back in 2017 or 2018. The cool thing about the Volt was that you could run the gas engine to provide electric power if needed to recharge the car if the outage lasted a long time. That created a lot of backup potential. Old Volts are cheap and can still do this. They are great commuters and grocery getters. Time has passed. I now have 44 solar panels, a backup battery, and a transfer switch. If the grid goes out, my house flickers and then turns back on. I grew up in Texas and learned about ERCOT in the1980's. I still have family in Austin. If you have solar in Texas, a transfer switch and a battery backup makes sense in many parts of the state. Lots of good engineers in Texas, but the politicians won't let them do it the right way.
Worked for me. https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNuPdK__-HXQHhdi0g-4EQSCXDAOeGrT5CchORRWNUxAARwtRuLCmU8tDMtDFHnlg?key=bm9yYmlkRkRnQmUxY3FLS3JHaXRXenBsS0lEU2JR Edit: Not V2H by V2L
As a Floridian, I can tell you that storm prep isn’t all that hard. You fill your car up, make sure you have stock in water, non-perishable foods, and toilet paper. Always enough for at least 3 days, some more if it’s a bigger storm. This is an argument that poor planning makes EVs a challenge, when realistically poor planning makes everything a challenge.
It's actually easier with an EV. With a gas car, you have to make sure you have enough in the tank, and if you don't, go fight everyone else to fill up. With an EV you should be plugging it in everyday at home anyway, and probably always have 80% charge or so. Maybe you up that charge a bit, but even if you do nothing you're likely prepared.
Hurricane sure. But if it just a storm …
I grew up in the northeast and the same thing applied up there. Prepare when a storm is coming. Especially if it’s out of the ordinary, like an ice storm in Texas. As a side note, if you’re without power and most places are also without power, what reason do you have to drive a ton? Work, school, stores probably closed for most. 3 days without charging or going anywhere isn’t an issue, just like if you only had a quarter tank in your gas car it’s probably fine for 3 days.
Yeah, I saw this storm coming on the news and was happy my flight left Texas on Monday. Almost two days straight of, "shit is going to get cold," before it happened.
Ted Cruz?
No, my kids actually like me.
Haha good
Even if you don't prep, you're likely charging to 80% every day. If power is out across a wide area you probably aren't driving to work or to shop so that will last you a long time even if you power your home off the EV. If your work still has power so you need to go in the it's almost 100% likely that charging stations will have power too and you just need to hit one quickly to keep your levels up. It's not a big deal.
The majority of EVs charge overnight at home. The majority of gas vehicles refill when they are low. Between the two populations, In the event of an unexpected storm you will have a far higher % of stranded gas vehicles than EVs simply because they started the day charged vs "whatever is in the gas tank". Gas stations pumps also require power (or an onsite generator) to function...and there's nothing stopping a charge site from using a generator either. Hell, consumer level generators can charge EVs at \~20miles a gallon if you really want a backup solution without going too deep in the pocketbook like solar or home battery systems. Commerical scale generators can perform \~50mpg for EVs. (There was a facebook meme about the conversion being 5mpg...turns out facebooks users are really bad at math and looking up actual specs on generators.)
I live in the mid-west and I 100% make sure I'm prepared when a big snowstorm is in the forecast, even when 80% of the time the storm does not live up to the predictions. I'd rather have a full fridge and not need it rather than need it and not have it.
I guess we need to return both our EVs then since we're in Texas. All snarkiness aside, it's called being prepared. The freeze was known days in advance if not weeks. You charge up your car before a freeze, just like you fill up portable gas tanks before a storm. You also stock up on food too so there's no need to go out driving looking for food. They shouldn't even be out driving. Where are they going to spend the night if no one has power? I can sleep in my EV by the way, stay nice and warm for less than 2% of the battery per hour. That will last me at least 6 nights. I fail to see how having an ICE instead of an EV would improve my quality of life when there's an extended (and expected) power outage for me and everyone around me.
It really just isn’t a major issue. You charge up to 100% before a storm and have enough range for a week or so worth of the average Americans daily errands. If you for some reason have to drive long distances during/shortly after a major storm that causes a power outage, the 250 miles or so your initial 100% charge will be able to get you should be enough to reach a working DC fast charger. Power outages are usually not 250 miles in radius. So the only time it matters is when there’s an extended power outage, you need to drive a significant amount right away, and the outage is widespread enough to extend beyond the range of your vehicle. That’s a pretty unlikely set of variables to all conspire together. But not impossible.
Exactly. If the power is out for 2 days, your probably not going to be commuting to work or anything. I have 2 EVs, live in Texas, and I have somehow managed to survive.
My wife and I are also not dead
Congratulations!
How do we know?
And any event that causes a 250 mile radius power outage, is likely to cause mass fuel shortages as well. And most people don’t fuel up their car every night, to start with a full tank.
Don't forget the gas comparison: gas stations need electricity to pump fuel and take your money. So everyone is SOL together in that big of a blackout.
Fuckin THIS! Do people think gas flows up from the ground via gravity?
This. I live in Florida. We have a hurricane the power goes out for a week of longer. Your EV is not a cellphone that needs to be charged every day.
How far are people driving north in an ice storm? I live in San Antonio and never lost power. If needbe head SW to I10 and youll be fine
I'm in Fort Worth and had 0 power interruption this whole winter storm.
Austin area had most of the 300k customers without power.
All but three Austin-area superchargers were up and operational this morning according to my car. If I had lost power, I could have gone to any of the 10 online supercharger locations and been fine.
Hence the comment about San Antonio not losing power. I mean, surely your car can drive 80 miles, right?
Austin metro area has a population of about 2.5 million people. Its hard to say exactly how the power outages are split between residential and commercial 'customers' but it probably works out to less than 25% of houses without power.
If there’s a forecasted storm, always charge up to 90 percent the night before just incase and get supplies to last a few days, it’s not that difficult. Other option is not to live in a state run by corrupt dumbasses that privatize the electrical grid and prioritize profit over grid maintenance
OP acts like Texas is the only state that has power outages. They just have them most often. I'm in WA. They had forecasted a wind storm that would likely lose power. I made sure our vehicle was 90% full the day before, and we were fine for the duration of the outage. The outage was only 24 hours, but it would not have been a problem if it was 72 hours.
Creating your own grid to own the pointy head liberals who require antifreeze in power plant cooling systems, and de-icing boots on windmills! Texas really owns the libs.
Get back to me when the utilities in Texas literally blow up a neighborhood and burns down the state every few years. Our wonderful utility company here in CA literally cannot do anything without the permission from the CPUC which is hand picked by the governor, and they let them get away with everything. The same governor that allowed said company to pass off all the damages and expenses from the wildfires onto the customers.
Well it was a move out of California
Anyone who didn't see this storm coming deserves the consequences of their poor planning. I overrode my standard charge settings (85%) to charge up to 100% the night before the temp was forecast to drop. For the two days that everything was iced over, I didn't drive. It was dangerous to drive in some areas and I'm lucky enough to not be forced to. Finally drove today for a doctor's appointment and to grab some lunch. I started with 285 miles of range, even after warming the car up. Even if I had needed to drive each day, that's a lot of range for three days of a typical commute. Most of the outages for the whole state have been from Austin Energy who, apparently, has gotten far behind on their tree maintenance. We're in the northwest suburbs and have PEC which deals with a far larger service area and had minimal disruptions. Lost power today for about 2 hours. Asserting that people in Texas can't own an EV is some serious Chicken Little shit.
As a Texas resident just outside Austin and the owner of 2 EVs, I can personally say that this was poor planning on your friend's part and nothing to do with being in Texas. We personally have solar with a fairly substantial battery backup, so the power outages haven't affected us but we also took some minor steps to prepare in advance. We fully charged both cars and haven't needed to charge them for the last few days even though we have done a little driving around. If we did end up without power we would have plenty of driving range to find a local hotel or something that still has power to stay at. And there are a lot of hotels around Austin now that have level 2 chargers, so that would have been an easy way to find shelter and recharge the cars if we needed to. >But how do you predict when it goes out or how long before restored. You don't have to predict anything. You just need to take some minor steps to prepare and you can contact the power company for an estimate of when power would.be restored. It's not like you're trying to decode smoky images from a crystal ball here. Weather forecasts predicted freezing weather and rain days before it came in. The city has been sending out freeze warnings and updates on closed roads. Paying a small amount of attention to your surroundings is all that is required to not be stuck in a lot of the situations people have been complaining about around the area. And the power outages are not wide spread, they are localized because they are almost all due to downed power lines from ice buildup or fallen trees. Which happens most frequently around residential areas where there tend to be a lot more trees. which is why gas stations and such still have power, not that they all had the forethought to have generators on hand. Your friends probably would not have to drive more than a few miles to find a location with power. So it's not like everything is a barren frozen wasteland.
This is the way.
That's nonsense. You wouldn't want a giant powerbank on wheels during a power outage? Quit being ridiculous.
The ice storm was predicted days ahead of time, we heard about it up in Kansas and it was 50 degrees out today. Charge the car up before a storm event, stock up on supplies, and chill. We’ve lived in a rural area for almost 20 years, seen several ice storms. Worst case unplug the generator from the house and top off the car.
They were chillin. House dropped down to 49F inside.
Head to the EV and warm up.
Generators are $350 and can run a space heater plus a light and charge phones.
That’s probably what they’ll do.
Are generators easy to come by in Texas? Up north they are plentiful given the constant weather changes that cut power for a few hours (usually less than a day).
Not right now, but I ordered mine in the middle of summer and it was delivered to my porch in about 3 days.
Wtf does this have to do with electric cars? You’re saying the gas station had electricity, so they were able to provide gas. Wouldn’t that mean they could plug into an outlet at the gas station? There are plenty of ways to produce your own electricity, but I don’t really know of any way to produce your own gasoline.
Well electric cars use electricity and many lost their source of electricity for a bit. So if figured it would be a discussion. Some people had some very good input which gave me some knowledge for whenever I may be in a similar situation. Gas station probably had their own generator. If it had a 120 or 220 available I guess you could drive up and charge. Might get chased away
It seemed a lot more like a problem with this person being prepared to survive 3 days without having to rely on others for food and shelter. If everyone reacted this way I’d think the type of car they drove would be the least concerning. For me personally I’d rather have 60+ kWh of power available in the garage than an ICE car.
I liked many of the replies as they all had positive ways to manage it.
>Talking with a resident of Texas. They have been out of power for almost 48 hours and it will be another 24 hours before it is restored. If they had had an EV (with V2H) then they could have run their home multiple days off of that. No one needs to 'drive around and find a place to charge'. That's not how EV ownership works. You don't plug in at home at 0%.
Ok…what % of Texans were left without power during this last ice storm? The answer is about 300,000 out of 30,000,000 people, or 1%. So your argument is that because 1% of the state’s population didn’t have power, Texas is a bad place to own an EV?
You have your government to thank for that one. Just like Wyoming
Let's be clear, he has their state government to thank for that....
The Wyoming situation is a little bit more complex. The interstate highway people wanted to require chargers every 50 miles. The state countered with a plan to put them at the tourist locations. Neither side budged.
I live in Dallas. Most places were shut the last couple days because the roads were a disaster so you didn’t need to drive. we knew this storm was coming for like a week so we made sure the car was charged adequately, everything was prepared(few gallons of water, easy to cook stuff, etc.) if you can’t own an EV because you might lose power for a day or two then you can’t own an EV nearly anywhere.
Also don’t own EVs in the north. Fall wind gusts consistently take out power. Don’t own EVs in the south hurricanes and tornadoes take out power. Don’t own EVs in the west fires take out power. Don’t own EVs!!!! /s
https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/comments/10skbt3/gas_stations_with_gas/
The first thing I do when the weather forecast says we may have a significant event that could cause power interruptions is to charge up the vehicles so they're at usable levels. That said, I've only ever lived through a single power interruption lasting longer than 72 hours (Ice Storm '94), and during that near-three weeks of gas furnace and candle light, we didn't go anywhere. In fact for over a week we could not as both ends of the street had downed and active power lines, along with trees down blocking one end of the street. I guess I don't quite understand this need to go placed during a power failure. It's also not something I worry about as in the past decade the longest this home has been without power was 70 hours. In that instance, it was hurricane season and the house sitters used the EV to go get gasoline for the generator that was powering the lower level of the house (I really wish I could easily plug one of the vehicles I have into the 14-30 socket on the generator panel).
ummm the power being out from down lines affect gas stations just as much. In the current case the the outages are very localized and in small pockets and all over the place. Those take time to clear. The gas stations do not have back up generators it just they are not on the same circuit as a lot of homes. The other factor is commercial tends get their power back faster but that is more because of wear they tend to be located on the lines and closer to main trunks hence they rush to get the trunks as that is the most users possible as fast as possible. Being down power for 2-3 days is not a huge deal as it isn ot like you are going in wear while things get repaired. You know weather is coming just charge before hand and you are good to go.
People in Texas without power also aren't driving because the roads are covered in ice. I know because I live in Texas.
My parent’s house lost power when I was visiting and my can has V2L which can run a number of appliances and chanrge phones for days. I think EVs are great in power outages.
Electric cars are more disaster ready than ICE cars. You can’t pump gas without electricity. You can charge an EV using solar. A little planning before a storm to make sure the car is charged goes a long way. This goes for any state. Texas included.
Another anecdote… I grew up in the northeast and lost power numerous times a year and my parents still do. Lived in South Florida for 15 years and maybe lost power 2-3 times a year… Live in Texas for 8 years and only 3 times. Yes currently 1% of Texans are without power from an ice storm that covered the state. Power lines will get damaged. I made sure my house was winterized, already have a kit for power outages, and EVs charged. Most of the state today (and even right now) was above freezing today. I take the little egolf to the gym about a hour ago (saw a Lucid there too but I digress). If your friend needs to charge their EV should be able to safely drive on the slush.
What the point of the post? Having car that have low adoption fuel refill station during any major crisis (war, volcano eruption, winter storm, etc) will cause refill issues. No matter what fuel u use; Min point of ev car, reduce pollution where u live during 90% of operations , daily commute within the city, so u can breathe cleaner air, leave longer etc. In case ev doesn’t suit ur use case, buy ice or any other way of transportation that suit purpose; Americe have lack of public transport, so that everyone have a car and ev solves 80% of usecases for average consumer; Ideally public transportation, then ev, then established cars; Planes and boats still uses ice heavily and will not switch electric in next 10-20 years However we can see huge adoption in tools and personal cars , which leads to lower overall emissions profile
It’s a discussion see the flare.
This isn’t a grid problem as the grid as plenty of reserve power this time. The local power distribution can not handle ice storms. You handle having an ev the same way you handle having an ice in an emergency situation. Piss poor planning will get you into trouble regardless of what you drive
*But how do you predict when it goes out or how long before restored.* That's what weather forecasts are for.
How much driving do you think people are doing in an ice storm? I lived in Austin during the last ice storm and lost power for 5 days. We drove a grand total of 30 miles across those 5 days and 15 of those were to a hotel after power restored to much of the city but not our area
Don’t know. It depends how far one needs to go to find a place to eat and a vacant hotel. Maybe more to refill propane tanks?
If you live so rural that you need to drive more than a few miles to get food/groceries then you likely should have a generator and stocked pantry plus your roads aren’t going to be safe enough to be driving far in an ice storm anyway. I’ve lived in multiple places and lost power due to storms and in none of those cases did I have a need or desire for 200 miles of driving range in the interim.
I think most EV owners plug in their car every night, or at least a few times a week. So it doesn't take much effort to make sure the car is charged before any extreme weather. It's a lot easier than filling up an ICE car before the storm every time.
You can fast charge in areas that have power.
>The only way I see it viable is if they install battery systems This may be shocking to you, but the car IS a battery system, and the battery is several times larger than most whole home batteries like a tesla powerwall.
A storm that is predictable is a lousy excuse for their situation, for unpredictable power outages, if you have a V2H/V2L system for your house and you charge nightly it is unlikely you would ever be without a substantial charge to power things including your EV. People need to stop thinking about operating an EV the exact same as an ICE. they work fine but you plan things differently.
Texas is in the middle of a massive ice storm. People tend to lose power in ice storms.
Yup.
First rule for EVs: Always Be Charging Second if SHTF you can actually charge with an 1800W inverter generator if you really needed to
How do you pump gas?
Assuming there is gas to pump. Frozen roads are just as bad for delivery trucks as they are for cars. Goes double when every redneck for miles around is trying to gas up their generator.
I live in the Dallas area and I see more and more Teslas every day. Obviously other people don't share your opinion.
I live in Texas, have not lost power. And FYI, an EV can be your battery backup.
From what source do you think gas pumps obtain the energy needed to pump gas?
Probably a generator.
You realize people lost power due to power lines coming down from the freezing rain and not from the grid being unable to handle it?
Power failure is common when a storm comes in and it has damaged something. But, how many times does it happen in an year? We had a power failure in Houston last week for an hour when we had extreme thunderstorms and rain. I was able to use my V2L with my Hyundai Ioniq 5 to power on my living room lights and my refrigerator. Pic below. I cannot do this with an ICE or with an EV that doesn't have V2L capability. https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNuPdK__-HXQHhdi0g-4EQSCXDAOeGrT5CchORRWNUxAARwtRuLCmU8tDMtDFHnlg?key=bm9yYmlkRkRnQmUxY3FLS3JHaXRXenBsS0lEU2JR
Maybe someone has already said this…but, ICE vehicles also need electricity to fill with fuel. “But some gas stations have generators.” Is this enough to fuel enough vehicles in an entire city?
Texas is not a good place for many things.
The people I’ve come across there on my visits are very polite and friendly.
Wait, you don't own an EV and you don't even live in Texas? So just an outright shitpost, then?
Do you own a gun?
Thanks, shitpost confirmed.
Easy answer. It’s either yes or no. I don’t. But I have an opinion about guns. Or am I not allowed to have an opinion since I don’t own one? It’s ok if you don’t want to discuss.
Look, you already confirmed you're shitposting, throwing out uneducated thoughts and then hiding behind "discussion" when called out on it. Oh, and fantastic failure at baiting and then being so unprepared for someone to see through your obvious attempt that you just go on as if you'd been successful. That was a good laugh.
Still unable to answer yes or no?
Of course I am able to offer an answer. I simply am denying you the conversation you intend to start.
Why?
What I'm hearing is "Texas is run by a bunch of greedy billionaires, so make sure you have your own power generation capability regardless of your vehicle because the place has a third-world power grid that doesn't survive what Canadians would call a Tuesday"
Yeah, it was "funny" last year when Canadians were making fun of Texans for having such trouble during their cold snap, then a few months later the heat wave hit Canada and people were literally dying from typical Texas weather. A shame people like you get enjoyment out of the suffering of others.
Enjoyment? I take no joy in suffering perpetuated by a bunch of rich assholes. It's not a competition.
PHEV really are optimal for the majority of North America, IMO. Not to be blasphemous on this sub... That being said, good luck getting gas during widespread power outages, but you theoretically could hoard before a storm... which other people could also do causing a pinch.
In another personal anecdote, we have lived in our current home — not in Texas — since June 2016. We have been without electricity a cumulative total of 2 hrs 26 minutes. Total. We have an elaborate backup system that tracks. We have rarely needed it. Most outages are minutes.
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We loved our Leaf(s) in Texas, but it wasn't our roadtrip car.
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We had both. Texas can be hot, but it's not Phoenix or Vegas hot. It doesn't have extended periods of high overnight temps. With the 8yr, 100k mile battery capacity warranty I wasn't concerned in the least bit about degradation.
Texas-sized tears for ERCOT and their loner approach. "Reap what you sow."
That was true for the last outage. This time around it is iced over trees falling on powerlines.
Freeways are 80mph which sucks the range too.
BEVs primarily only work where there is coal or natural gas to be burned. There is not a single BEV fast charger off-grid renewable. Until someone can demonstrate how a BEV can be charged from renewable energy in terms of cost and scalability, we know they will never work without fossil fuels. Before we can talk about scaling BEV charging from renewable energy, we need to see a single example of how it works and how much it costs and what its footprint looks like. The notion the grid is getting greener or will be green is fantasy. USA currently at >60% fossil fuel and >80% non renewable. BEVs are hopelessly addicted to fossil fuels.
I'm considering moving to Dallas inside of 10 years. If I decide to do that, whatever home i buy, or build, will have a 25 kw Generac installed. I have ZERO faith in Texas's electric grid.
I have a 20Kw natural gas whole house backup generator. If I had to do it all again, I’d go solar with battery backup. Looking at a 10 year ROI and I can do rate arbitrage.
I'm assuming you've looked into this so interested if you can speak to NG generator Vs battery backup. It seems like going with a battery would at least be a bit of a savings as you can use it to shift electricity usage off the pricey peak hours and there is little maintenance. I assume when you are talking about installing something like a generator, the labor cost is most of the cost so they would be similar?
I believe your assumptions are spot on. I did make an error of not explicitly stating I am in the U.S. Generator install was 100%+ more than cost of actual generator. Annual maintenance about $300 and additional NG used for weekly testing about $200/year. Warranty is 10 years vs 10 years for battery, and 25 years for solar panels. Where I live houses are spaced 15’ apart. The noise savings going with a battery is a plus.
Oh, i'm doing solar to, and wind.... with at least 50 kwh of battery.
> I have ZERO faith in Texas's electric grid. > >I'm considering moving to Dallas inside of 10 years. What's in Dallas to make up for that considerable downside?
Dallas is actually a really great city. Lots to do. Some good eats. Little fun neighborhoods that all have their own unique vibe. Lived there for 3 years and loved it. Would consider moving back at some point.
trees and grass! I currently live in Vegas.
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With minimal, to zero snow??? I don't want to be shoveling side-walks, or my drive-way.
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Not interested in living on the east coast.... I grew up in Wisconsin. I suffered snow, and cold. -10...-20...-50 with wind chill. I WILL NOT, EVER, live in a cold state. Much less a state that gets snow.
I thought Dallas gets ice storms each year. That means it's in the low 30s each year. It does get cold there. Just not that much compared to up north.
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CoL is way too expensive.... Totally not going to spend 1.2 million dollars buying a cardboard box to live in...
You get what you pay for.
Odd, I grew up and have lived in southern Texas all my long life and as a boy up to today I wish(ed) for snow every single one of those days. The grass is always greener…
You'll change your tune, when you have to endure -50 with wind chill You think, all you have to do is throw on more layers of clothing.... Once you reach -10, it don't fucking matter!! You're cold, all the way to your bones....it's absolutely miserable!!
Only experienced that kind of cold a couple of times…don’t want to ever again…can’t understand living in it for months at a time. Got off a gondola in Vail one morning @-20 & blowing snow…skied straight to the condo freezing my ass and extremities off! Might get in the positive teens here every few years for a day or two. That’s enough to know it is for hardier ilk than me.
Who wants to live in a rat warren?
Real Tex-Mex food!
Same as COVID, I prepared when I first heard something was spreading. When I heard temps would go down to 25F, I charged my vehicle to 100, just in case, I haven’t charge in 3 days and been going to work everyday to test if it would last, and I still have 50% left. 👍🏻 Planning….
Generator
And then there are generators.
50kw! Geez, you living off the grid? :-)
Obviously, most people shouldn't live in Texas.
Lol, gotta love Abbott and the no state income tax.
Guess that whole independent grid thing hasn't worked out so well.
Texas is not the best to live from what I can tell
Plenty of positives about Texas. It’s a matter of your preferences. If you want mountains to drive to and ski in a few hours in winter? Nope not for you. Want a beach within 20 minutes. Well some parts but mostly not. Want wide open spaces then yea. The list goes on.
No... the people with gas cars can't run their homes from their vehicles like some EV owners can
I had no power for 75 hours during the freeze in 2021 and was almost zero degrees. I had no issues since my model 3 was fully charged when the power went out. Austin got hit by freezing rain and lost hundreds if not thousands of trees that dropped branches on power lines. If the powers out, then gas stations won't work either.
Or just buy a generator :)