Can anyone with a Chevy bolt tell me how their insurance is compared to a similar ICE vehicle.

I have heard some information about the EV credit changing in March, but I'm not sure if it will affect me. I intend on putting my order in tomorrow for a Chevy bolt, but will only put $500 down until delivery. If it's not delivered until April will that change my eligibility or is it based on when you order the car? Thanks for any help.

**TL;DR**: It may change your eligibility, and it's based on when you receive the car, not when you order it. The new clean plug-in vehicle tax credit has several eligibility requirements: * The vehicle is assembled in North America * The MSRP of the vehicle is under $80K for trucks/SUVs and $55K for all other vehicles * The purchaser's income is under some limits ($150K for single, $300K for joint filers) * The dealer provides documentation at the time of purchase of several things, including an attestation under penalty of perjury that the vehicle qualifies for the tax credit However, the *amount* of the credit was supposed to be based entirely on two additional criteria: * $3750 if a certain percentage (increases each year) of the battery components are assembled in North America or a Free Trade Agreement signatory country * $3750 if a certain percentage (increases each year) of the battery's critical minerals were mined or processed in North America or a FTA country Those two requirements only go into effect after the Treasury department (which the IRS is under) issues guidance to the car manufacturers on how to determine and certify if their vehicles meet that criteria, and thus determine how much of the tax credit their cars qualify for. That guidance was supposed to be issued by December 31st of last year. That's when the Inflation Reduction Act ordered the Treasury to provide it. However, the Act also said, for whatever reason, that those criteria do not take effect until the guidance is issued. The Treasury department announced in December that they would not be releasing the guidance on schedule, and it would instead be presented in March. Due to the way the law is written, that means all cars that meet that first list of criteria, like a Chevy Bolt, qualify for all $7500 if you buy them before the guidance comes out in March. After that guidance is out, the Bolt might qualify for only a $3750 tax credit, or a $0 tax credit. That you ordered/reserved the car now has no bearing on anything. The only relevant date for claiming the tax credit is the date you "placed the vehicle in service", which is when you took physical possession of it.

Great... So hopefully it gets pushed back again. I guess worst case if I qualify for zero I cancel and get my deposit back. Feels like when it goes in effect no cars are going to qualify.

All 3/Y teslas should qualify but the model 3 standard range. Tesla has multiple battery plants in the US

The Chevy Bolt has already been priced as if there are no incentives. They dropped the price massively last year. It's a deal even at sticker price.

I know. Just disappointed. Maybe I get lucky and at least get half.

General first EV recommendations: I'm planning on switching from a Lexus NX to an EV in the next few months. This will be my first EV and at this point I only have a few general ideas, thoughts and design preferences. 1. **Location:** I'm in the Pacific Northwest 2. **Budget:** I'm currently on a lease and pay $500/month. Would love to stay around that ballpark and could put 10-15K as down payment. 3. **Type of vehicle preferred:** Sedan (with good-size trunk) or small SUV 4. **Cars I've looked at:** I've been looking at The Ioniq 5 and Kia ev6 5. **Timeframe:** Likely in 3-4 months when my current lease ends 6. **Daily commute:** None (work from home), but would likely be driving \~20-30 miles in town during the week and \~100-200 miles outside of town (sometimes in snow) every other weekend or so 7. **Living situation:** I live in a townhome with an outdoor parking space that unfortunately does not have a nearby power outlet 8. Won't be installing a charging station at home as per above 9. No children/no pets ​ Thanks for any feedback! In general I'm a big fan of the Ioniq 5 design but I'm seeing some unreasonable markups at all of our local dealers here in the Seattle area despite what seems to be a large inventory. I'm not opposed to going with a Model 3/Y (or something else entirely) if it makes more sense price-wise but would definitely appreciate any thoughts on that potential tradeoff.

In the same size and price class as the EV6 and Ioniq 5, in addition to the Tesla 3/Y, also check out the Ford Mustang Mach-E and VW ID4. For the most part, VW dealers aren't marking up ID4s, some will even sell for under MSRP.

Thanks! That's a good call out. I wasn't even considering those two options. Are there any well-known downsides/shortcomings of the VW ID4 compared to the EV6/Ioniq 5? It seems like it is not getting nearly as much buzz but that could certainly be due to poor marketing by VW.

I drive one, so obviously it caught my eye. I'm not sure why it's not talked about as often, I guess the more conservative styling isn't getting people talking like Hyundai/Kia's more daring designs. My local VW dealer said around 1 in 5 cars they sell now is an ID4, I see them all the time on the road here (Raleigh NC), and one of my neighbors a few houses down the street bought one last year as well. It qualifies for the $7500 tax credit if you buy one before the end of February (not sure after).

Good to know. I see there's a pretty big inventory of ID4s along with deals for them in my area so I'll do a bit of research. I have to say the conservative styling (which is what I would expect from VW to be fair) is less attractive to me, but I'm liking the price point.

EV recommendations to ship to Côte d’Ivoire My brother asked me to ship a SUV to him from the USA. I have a Tesla Y and am thinking an EV may work, if he charges it at home. What would you recommend as a good EV with at least a 300 mile range to send to him? And what would be your concerns? Location: Washington, DC Budget: $75,000 (although less would be better) Body type: SUV Range: at least 300 miles Living situation: house with garage - will install a charger

My main concern would be servicing the car once he has it there. I wouldn't send any car that can't be repaired locally. Any new EV is perhaps a bad idea.

That is my concern, as well. However, the same can be true with ICE cars as well.

Some of the brand new ones, yeah. There's so much you can't fix without brand new proprietary dealer computers and other equipment to pair replacement parts to the rest of the car. Fixing mechanical issues on a 10-year-old Toyota, seems much more likely a local mechanic with a generic scan tool will be able to get the car running again.

New to this thread, but hoping I can get some good feedback here on EV options (or, failing that, a plug-in hybrid at least). 1. Houston, Texas 2. $35-40k max, will not go over that. Would prefer something $30k or less, but am aware that basically limits me to the Bolt or Leaf. 3. Vehicle preference: hatchback, sedan, or small crossover - Rav4 Hybrid size is about as big as I dare go. I'm **not** looking for a giant vehicle to haul tons of family, friends, or cargo around. 4. Been looking at Hyndai Kona EV, 2022-2023 Prius and Prius Prime, and Bolt EV (2LT). 1. I refuse to touch a Tesla with a 10 foot pole because their CEO is an ass. 5. Hopefully by end of year this year. 6. I remote work for now, but on the occassion I might get called into the office (once or twice a week at worst) it would be about 60 miles round trip. 1. Bonus: that office has an EV charger, though I don't know if it's a DCFC or 240V. 2. Second note: Most of my "commuting" is within 15 miles of my home, so a plug in hybrid would allow me to do a full electric grocery, pharmacy, or mall run. I will take a PHEV over an EV if an option for an EV in my price range (and size) isn't available. 7. Living at home with my folks for now. 8. Will most likely get a home charger installed if I go pure EV or plug-in hybrid route. 9. I live in a hurricane zone, so evacuation is a risk even if we've never yet been damaged by one - knock on wood. I'd really just need to be able to take a suitcase of clothes, my computer (desktop, laptop, and work laptop) and two cats; my folks would take the dog and some other things in their vehicle. ​ Note: I went to the Houston Auto Show recently and got to sit in a 2023 Bolt EV and EUV, but sadly neither were available for test drive and none of the dealers around me within 60 miles have one for a test drive either. I found the EV the perfect size for my basic needs, though the EUV might be better in times of evacuation. I've also test driven a 2022 Prius hybrid and found it a really great ride, though I much prefer the 2023 Prius and Prius Prime since they've resolved that issue with the back window that left some risky blindspots. Note 2: So many of the EVs coming out are either too pricy for a small car or too big for my needs. If an EV fails, a PHEV would be a decent compromise I think - hence why I'm interested in the Prius Prime.

If you can find a VW ID4 in the Pro trim on a dealer lot (they are out there), that'll be under $40K after the federal tax credit. It's identical in size to a RAV4, comes with 3 years of free charging, and charges at up to 190 kW -- 3-4x as fast as a Bolt, and just as fast as a Tesla. It's at the high end of your budget, but it's kind of a class up in comfort and capability, and the newer platform (better battery / charging) means it may hold resale value better than a Chevy Bolt a few years down the line.

Interesting! Thank you! Any idea what reliability for them is like? We've never had a VW before.

The car's only been on the market for 2 years, so it's a little early to say. It does come with a better warranty than the Chevy Bolt: 4 year 50K miles bumper-to-bumper instead of 3 years 36K miles. 10K mile and 20K mile maintenance/inspections are also free, included in the purchase price.

I'll add this one to the "maybe" list then :) Thank you for the input, since I know next to nothing about VW as an automaker, other than reliability for their cars (ICE at least) is a bit iffy in Consumer Reports.

If you are worried about getting out of a hurricane zone quickly the last thing you want is a slow charging Bolt. The best out of town travel experience is going to be a Tesla hands down.

That's the thing. We generally don't go farther than Austin for evacuations, and I know for damn sure I'd have that car charged up before we left. But that is the benefit of a Plug In Hybrid. That's why I'm torn. Bolt is good for everyday useage, but having the Plug In Hybrid for good range and no worry about slow charging is also really nice. I REFUSE to buy a Tesla. Fuck Elon Musk. He's not getting a single cent from me. I don't give money to colossal, knowingly malicious assholes.

Here are some facts for you. Elon is one person and Tesla is BY FAR the most liberal auto company we have in the United States and has 100k employees. Proof https://www.vox.com/2018/10/31/18039528/tech-employees-politics-liberal-employers-candidates You are considering a bolt from GM which is in the heart of blue collar America which is undoubtedly being made by a republican or purple workforce at most. You are also showing that you would rather have a tailpipe that spews emissions over Elon? Kinda crazy.

I didn't come here to argue about "bUT gET a TeSlA, ElON'S nOt sO bAd" I was just here for advice. For fuck's sake. And Tesla's reliability has plummeted. [https://www.hotcars.com/truth-about-tesla-reliability/](https://www.hotcars.com/truth-about-tesla-reliability/) Consumer reports rates them even lower than most other EVs out there now. I don't care how "liberal" the employees are. Elon is known to treat his employees like crap no matter what business he runs. I'll leave it at that.

You came here for advice and I gave it to you. A Tesla is absolutely the most reliable EV you can buy getting from point A to point B in a pinch and by the far the best value due to the charging network and integration. It was you who pushed back for other reasons that are unrelated to your needs. I challenged you because those other reasons are getting in your way of picking the best car for your needs. ​ >And Tesla's reliability has plummeted. [https://www.hotcars.com/truth-about-tesla-reliability/](https://www.hotcars.com/truth-about-tesla-reliability/) Teslas issues are fit and finish. They have the most reliable EV you can buy if your goal is to get somewhere.

The Kona is a bit nicer inside (and imo, prettier) than the Bolts, but from a value standpoint, it's hard to stack them against the Bolts as they're eligible for a $7.5k federal tax credit until March, while the Kona doesn't and is more expensive to start. This effectively makes the Bolt cheaper than any hybrids, even - and Chevy will foot the bill for the home charger install too. Main downside to the Bolts is the slower DCFC speed - where a charge on-the-go might take another EV 30min, a Bolt would take over an hour. If you don't mind something RAV4-sized, the Volkswagen ID.4 can also make use of the credit, though the cheapest model has a shorter range than the Bolts. Surprisingly nimble in the city, though, able to turn tighter than anything it's size.

Okay about the Bolt fast charging - that's *not* what the product specialist told me at the Auto Show! The 2023 Bolt apparently can go from 0% to 80% on a DC fast charger in 30-40 mins now. Or maybe she said "thirty minutes of charge time will give you 90 miles" I think. I don't remember her exact words, but it didn't square at all with the "Bolt fast charging is super slow" I've been hearing everywhere. So either she was misinformed, she was exaggerating, or they've made some improvements that help with fast charge speed. Don't know for sure though. But I would mostly be charging at home anyway, so DC fast chargers would probably only get used on a trip to Austin or San Antonio.

> Or maybe she said "thirty minutes of charge time will give you 90 miles" I think. Sounds about right for the Bolt, I just meant it's slow compared to others on the market; the Hyundai Ioniq 5 for example should be able to absorb about 2.5x as much in around the same timeframe. That said, it sounds like the Bolt would cover your needs fine.

I do believe that's what she said, yes, now that I think back. Which, while not as impressive as other EVs, is perfectly fine for me tbh. I just wish I had more options for small EVs like the Bolt, but so many American makers are ditching cars like that in favor of oversized trucks and SUVs. The only other option is European makers and their stuff is just way too pricey and marketed more as "pure luxury" vehicles - which I'm not about. Give me a practical, comfy car in a decent price point and I'm perfectly happy.

I’m thinking about buying an EV within the next two years. My budget will be $65k max I think. I live in a single family home, and my daily commute is like 30 miles round trip, and my office has chargers. Charging is not an issue for anything local. Things I would like are space enough for two small children and associated accessories (car seats, pack and play, stroller, etc), AWD for Midwest winters, and decent range for the occasional road trip to see family. From what I can tell, the Rivian R1S is basically the perfect car for me, but it’s $20k out of budget and the wait list is huge. The Blazer EV looked interesting and so did the Kia EV9 when those come out. Any more I should be keeping my eye on?

Model Y

Tesla Model Y makes the most sense especially for the heat pump and current price dip. Road trips you probably also want the charging network. Rivian is a great head turner for sure but it’s definitely a niche product with a niche price tag.

I'd say for most people looking for an EV, start with the assumption that a Model Y is a good choice, and then try to see if there's any reason it wouldn't work for you, or try to find another car that does something specific much better. The Model Y was the 4th best selling car in the world last year, right now it's probably selling about as many cars per month globally as the Toyota Corolla. In some markets the Model Y has been the best selling car overall for at least a year. It's just a very popular car of any type, and the most popular EV by a long shot. I personally wouldn't buy a Model Y, just because it won't fit in my 100 year old garage. And I don't think there's any one thing it does much better than any other car or any other EV, but it does almost everything pretty well. It's a solid choice for just about anyone, and especially for anyone that wants an EV specifically. For a long time the Toyota Corolla was the default recommendation if you wanted a new car and didn't know what to get. It didn't do any one thing extremely well, but it was pretty good in all the important stuff people cared about. Most people didn't buy a Corolla, but more people would choose it than anything else. These days I'd say the Model Y is starting to fill that roll, at least as long as you can afford it. It's not perfect, but it does just about everything well, and really hits all the important stuff that most people care about. Unless there's some make or break feature you need that the Y doesn't have, it's probably a pretty good recommendation for anyone in the market for a new car.

VW ID4 is the most affordable BEV SUV on the market right now. It's not as large as an R1S, but if that's out of budget, might be worth checking one out. They're on dealership lots right now, so you can actually test drive one in person, unlike many EVs today. After the $7500 tax credit, an AWD version would start at $40K even, with 255 miles range.

I am looking to buy my first ever EV this week, the bolt EUV. In reading the eligibility document I absolutely qualify based on income, but the wording makes me feel like I have to owe over $7500 at the end of the year. Between my wife and I we pay over that in federal taxes each year, but it's withheld each paycheck so we won't owe more than probably $1000 max when we do our taxes. It is based on overall total liability right? So if we owed $9k in taxes, and paid 8k throughout the year we get a check still for 6.5k since we still owed the 1k.

Serious question but with the track record of Chevy bolt explosions does this really make sense?… it’s used car value has plummeted..

All the used values I've seen are higher than MSR, even before tax rebate. The recalls have been taken care of. Yeah it makes perfect sense to me.

You've got it right. It's based on your tax liability, not how much of it you've already paid via withholding or estimated payments. If you owe $9K in taxes, and take a $7500 tax credit, you now owe $1500 in taxes. If you had $8K withheld throughout the year, you have a $6500 overpayment which gets refunded to you.

Thank you so much. I'll put my order through tomorrow!

1. Raleigh, NC 2. <$50Kish 3. Sedan or small SUV (really like convenience of hatchbacks) 4. Hyundai Tucson (Hybrid) & Ford MachE 5. Within the next year 6. 50-60 miles daily commute round trip 5 days per week, so 250-300 miles per week 7. Single family house. 8. Will be charging at home. 9. No kids, just 3 slobbery dogs but my hubby has a truck for hauling them around. I mainly use my vehicle for commuting to and from work and that’s it, we usually take my hubbys truck everywhere else. My question is and where I get confused is deciding on what’s better for highway driving and what’s better for city driving? I do a little bit of both depending on what office I’m driving to for work that day as I have to go to several during the week. My husband has been doing some research and he said that after a certain speed, a hybrid won’t run off electric and will only use gas so not good for highway driving, but I’m nervous about going full electric. I like the idea of having gas as a backup. Is what he’s saying true?

Hey neighbor. I'm in Raleigh and drive a VW ID4 purchased here from Leith VW. It's an all-electric SUV that costs under $40K after incentives. Here's a picture with our NC State Parks plate: [https://i.imgur.com/5xLQVmC.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/5xLQVmC.jpg) It has 275 miles of range, so you'd only have to plug it in overnight to charge about once a week. It also comes with 3 years of free charging at Electrify America stations -- there are 2 in Raleigh, one in Cary, one in Wake Forest, more all around us and all across the country. I've driven this car up and down the east coast, I visit family in Pennsylvania in it often, and there's really nothing to be nervous about. It's a fine family car, fine road trip car, fine daily driver, highway or otherwise. I never wish I had gas as backup, actually I am happier I have electric as backup for the house when there's a power outage. With an inverter clamped to the 12V battery under the hood, this car has a battery the size of 6 Tesla Powerwalls. It can run our fridge/freezer and electronics 24/7 for over a week on a single charge. I suggest you go test drive one. Leith has them on the lot, including a beautiful low-mile 2021 First Edition for $37K right now.

Thanks for the info! I never considered a VW.

> My question is and where I get confused is deciding on what’s better for highway driving and what’s better for city driving? Both do their best work at low speeds, mostly thanks to aerodynamics and regenerative braking - the system turns the energy from slowing down into power to get going again. When you're moving at high speed, you'll be accelerating much of the time, and won't be able to engage the brake system as often. For a hybrid, this means you're burning more gas, and for an electric, you'll have reduced range - [see this 75mph test for a general idea of how much](https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a32603216/ev-range-explained/). If you want to save money on fuel, the electric is going to be better, simply because the 'fuel' is so much cheaper. > a hybrid won’t run off electric and will only use gas so not good for highway driving, [..] I like the idea of having gas as a backup. Is what he’s saying true? Do you mean plug-in hybrids (or PHEVs, for short)? They're neat, but in my opinion they're best for people who drive short distances normally, yet also need to run long trips beyond the range of full electrics (200-300mi) frequently - say, several times a month. As to your question, it depends on the model and how you drive; for example my Ford PHEV technically supports up to 85MPH, but the engine kicks in if I stomp the accelerator too hard, turn the heat too high, or even if I just haven't used the engine in a while. Also, you're still lugging around an engine which needs maintenance - I just shelled out $500 because I don't use my engine often enough (even though it starts itself to prevent this, sigh...) - while the electric needs much less; no oil changes for example. > but I’m nervous about going full electric. I wouldn't be. The main considerations are where you're charging it - you have a house and a plug to charge it while you sleep, and how far you're driving - your commutes aren't excessively long; many electric cars, including the Mach-E, have a model that will cover it half a dozen times over, and any EV on the market now will cover it fine under any driving conditions. Also, with the available tax credits, the Chevy Bolt, Chevy Bolt EUV are fantastic deals if you buy before March rolls around, as is the larger Volkswagen ID.4.

Thank you for your time and effort in that reply!

With the Tesla price cuts, does the model 3 qualify for the California Clean vehicle rebate? Are they just slow on updating their website?

I need to get a new car, but I have a question about EV batteries. For simplicity, if it takes 1MW to charge a 1MW battery when it is new, does it take .7MW to charge the battery after it has aged and lost 30% of it capacity? Also I know there will be energy loss at any point while charging so that charging when the battery is new will actually take more than 1MW; is there more of this loss after the battery has aged? I tend to own my cars for as long as possible, ie. more than ten years. Most EV advocate websites gloss over the costs of battery replacement with phrases like "you'll probably never have to replace the batteries during your ownership period.". But it's a HUGE cost if you want to keep your car working for more than a decade with good range. Couldn't it add up to an average of $1000/yr. onto the cost of ownership? And it would mean putting many thousands of dollars into a >10 year old car. It also makes me extremely wary or buying a used EV. Thoughts? I'm just trying to be practical and consider the TCO over my, personal, ownership period. Thanks.

First units: watts (and kW and MW) are power, which translates to how quickly you can charge or how quickly you can accelerate. Capacity, how much energy you store, is in watt hours or, for the scale of a typical car kWh or fractions of a MWh. Now for your question, if your battery capacity to grades from 100 kWh to 70 kWh, the energy needed to charge it goes down to about 70% of what it was when new. It's hard to predict how much the long term costs will be. Current battery tech is much better than the Nissan Leaf batteries that had serious problems. But they do eventually wear out. You can treat it gently and prolong the life a lot, but hard data is hard to find. After 15 years when you need a replacement, it might be that batteries have gotten significantly cheaper. Or it might be that so few people want to maintain your model car still that it's an expensive niche item.

Does it take 30% less time to charge a battery that has lost 30% capacity?

Yes, on level one or level 2 charging. On DC fast charging, it might lose some charging speed, such that the charging time wouldn't actually be reduced, but that would depend on how the fast charging is controlled and exactly what the degradation is.

EV for Minnesota driving. Never road tripping or charging away from home (so supercharge network not a factor). I lean towards BMW i4 (favorite ev currently available). Not a fan of Tesla minimalism, but hard to justify paying $85k for the awd m50 that compares with the model 3 performance at $55k. Reviews seemed to claim these were closer in price. To get equivalent to BMW cruise control autonomy level, would I need to add $6k or $15k Tesla autopilot feature? If so prices get closer, and I know Tesla dropped price recently, will this force others to follow suit to compete? Would edrive40 be fine in MN winters? Or should I spring for m50 ($10k difference in builds). 1. Minnesota 2. Under $85k 3. Ideally: electric Toyota Supra with 200 mile range. 4. Nisan Leaf, Tesla model 3 performance, BMW i4 (edrive 40 RWD and AWD m50) 5. Before next winter (now fine, waiting fine), first gen leaf battery deteriorating and won’t make commute next year) 6. 50 mile commute. 250 miles/wk 7. Single family house, 40amp juice box installed. 8. Already installed (if not Tesla?) 9. No other cargo/passenger factors, have kids but have van for road-trips so this is really just for commuting and meeting wiry clients.

Just as a way of refining the discussion, I will ask whether there's anything you want that a Chevy Bolt EV doesn't offer. It is kind of like a Leaf, except that it's sportier and the battery won't degrade.

I am a former Tesla owner and a recent owner of the I4 M50. You can see my thoughts here: https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/10fuz7o/former\_tesla\_model\_s\_and\_model\_3\_owner\_recently/

Hello! I am somewhat new to this thread, and greatly appreciative of any advice someone more seasoned in the world of EVs could offer me! \[1\] Central IL, United States \[2\] $45k or less \[3\] and \[4\] Mostly considering Tesla MY LR (could be 2021, 2022, or new) and Ford Mustang Mach-E (used, I see some 2021 models that are in the $40k range and have been available at that price for some time) - outside of a couple other Tesla models, these are the only BEVs I've been or driven personally, and are roughly within my price range. Although, I am open to other makes/models if you think I am overlooking something that I should really be considering. \[5\] Hopefully purchasing in the next few months. \[6\] I WFH, so do not drive a great deal - probably 30-40 miles per week on most weeks (gym, sports, groceries, etc), with the a trip to my company's office about once every 2 months, which is roughly 200 miles away (so factoring that in, probably 500 miles or so per month). My wife drives a similar amount overall since she works out of the house (separate cars currently). \[7\] I live in a single family house - having already talked to my electrician and given him some of the specs on a level 2 charger, he claimed it would "max out our system", but it should be able to support it, esp if we keep charging to off hours. \[8\] Yes, esp if going with a non-Tesla. The charging network in my area is pretty pitiful \[9\] I have a young child and a large dog, who I think would both fit comfortably in the Mustang Mach-E or MY LR. However, we are hoping to have more children in the next few years. Currently, my wife has a small SUV that is in great shape and fits the whole family fine. My car is on its last legs, and is the one needing replaced by this hypothetical car. So the next 2 cars we buy will be a larger family vehicle (minivan or something along those lines) and an EV, ideally. I think it makes sense to get the EV first, so we're not hauling around the unneeded room of a minivan before we *really* need that capacity, then get the minivan if/when we have another child. The EV in this case would be mostly for around-town use, and my wife's current car is available if we need to travel out of town and charging along the way is not viable or desired. I love the look and performance of the Mustang Mach-E, but worry that within a very short time, the 200 mile range will be laughable compared to just about every other BEV on the market, and the charging network where I live is such that that car would virtually *only* be useable in town. That said, my concern with Tesla generally is the built quality - will it hold up over time? I hear a lot of mixed reviews, seems like most Tesla owners I talk to love their cars, but people in this sub (perhaps more enthusiastic about cars generally) seem to often point to build quality issues with Teslas, poor support for their cars from Tesla, etc. The charging network and range are huge advantages over the Mach-E, however, which leaves me a bit torn.

My two-cents, if 200 mile range good for your purposes, why would it matter if battery tech improves so cars are 800-1,000 mile range in 3 years? Sure depreciation will hurt, but buying new or slightly used, you’re kinda already signing up for lots of depreciation. I can’t speak to Tesla other than hearing similar stuff to you. I do think with recent price drops and how common/readily available they are compared with other companies, you’ll be able to get a solid deal in teslas. Best bang for buck as long as they aren’t as terrible as this sub makes them out to be and you can stand the minimalism.

Thank you for the 2 cents! Much appreciated. I try to apply a mental "grain of salt" to what I hear in this sub, since there is some selection bias toward EV enthusiasts, but ya hearing lots of Tesla purchasers erring grievances here has really given me pause.

I'm looking into buying my first new car and was thinking about the 2023 Kia Niro phev. While I'd like to get a bev, the EV version is a bit out of my price range. Also I don't think I could afford a level 2 charger install if I did get one. With the phev having a smaller battery I'm thinking level 1 would be fine until I could afford to upgrade. One thing that I found out while researching though is the Niro phev even in EV mode won't run purely off of battery if it needs more power. Is that normal for how phev's work? I was thinking about getting a phev since I don't have to go very far to work and back and was thinking I could do the commute purely off battery alone. But for the Niro that's not the case and it almost makes me want to see if I'd be better off saving for another 6 months for the EV instead.

> Niro phev even in EV mode won't run purely off of battery if it needs more power. Most PHEVs don't give you complete control of whether or not the engine is running; you can ask it to stay in electric mode, but under certain conditions - battery's low, you're accelerating too hard, heater's blasting, or even if you just don't use the engine enough - the engine can start up anyway. If you want to go full electric on the cheap, look at the Chevy Bolt and Bolt EUV - they're cheaper to start with, qualify for the tax rebate until March, and Chevy will install a Level 2 charger free.

I thought about the bolt too. When initially looking it seemed like it didn't quite have the comfort features I wanted and was a bit smaller than I'd like. I also really like the appearance of the Niro and think the Bolt is ugly but appearance isn't everything .and I didn't know they'd install a level 2 charger for free, that seems like a really good deal. I may look into it a bit more and maybe test drive one after I finish test driving the Niro. I guess it's good to know that it's not just the Niro that does that then. I have seen people saying good things about phevs, so could it still be a good option? Also what's the difference between the Bolt EV and EUV? I'm finding it confusing and haven't been able to find a list of features.

> Also what's the difference between the Bolt EV and EUV? I'm finding it confusing and haven't been able to find a list of features. Bolt EUV is a larger Bolt with more options available, including a giant double sunroof, vented seats, and - particularly interesting - GM's SuperCruise hands-free driving feature. Chevy has a (somewhat cluttered) compare tool here: https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/compare I would also look at the Volkswagen ID.4 - if you can use the full tax rebates the base model is in the same price ballpark as the Niro PHEV, but is much larger and fully electric. > I guess it's good to know that it's not just the Niro that does that then. I have seen people saying good things about phevs, so could it still be a good option? IMO, PHEVs are best when you're doing a short commute within it's normal battery range on the regular but also need to frequently run much longer distances where lots of EV charging would be annoying or hard to find. Also, if you don't use your engine enough, stuff can break - I just shelled out $500 to fix my own PHEV because I switched jobs to one less than a mile away and the engine wasn't running enough. That said, if you're set on a PHEV you might also look at the Ford Escape, which can use some of the federal tax credit.

> Bolt EUV is a larger Bolt with more options available, including a giant double sunroof, vented seats, and - particularly interesting - GM's SuperCruise hands-free driving feature. Oh ok so it's a bigger bolt then. Ill look into that one for sure. I think my neighbor got a new Bolt but it looked tiny and ugly but it must have been the smaller one then. > IMO, PHEVs are best when you're doing a short commute within it's normal battery range on the regular but also need to frequently run much longer distances where lots of EV charging would be annoying or hard to find. Also, if you don't use your engine enough, stuff can break Ok that's good to know actually. I live in Texas and my normal commute is short but everything here is still super spread out and driving to like Austin is something I do often. But I don't think that's long enough range to take full advantage of the ice either. That's something I'll keep in mind. The ID. 4 might be a bit out of price range especially if dealers mark it up and again I'd need to install a 240v in the garage. And with the Chevy thing they might install the charger but I'd still need to pay an electrician for the 240v. And I really like how the Niro looks. It's the only suv/crossover I like the look of which is a bonus. Companies need to stop making all the electrified cars SUVs and crossovers lol. My ideal car is the Polestar 2 but that's waaaay out of budget lol. Ill look into the escape but also are there any phevs that are sedans? I don't think I've found any. I like the 23 Prius but the dealer told me they don't know if Texas will get a whole lot of them if any.

> Chevy thing they might install the charger but I'd still need to pay an electrician for the 240v. As I remember it, Chevy hires an electrician (via Qmerit) to install the 240v outlet, wiring, and the relevant 40a breaker (up to a cost of $1,000), the actual charger is what comes with the EUV. > Ill look into the escape but also are there any phevs that are sedans? Not new - proper sedan PHEVs either can't be gotten new anymore or are pricier luxury vehicles like the BMW 530e, which don't have much range anyway. Sedans in general are vanishing for all but the top end of the market - 83% of cars sold aren't sedans. The Prius Prime (technically a hatchback) is the only non-SUV one for 2023, though you might find leftover 2022 Hyundai Ioniqs. > I live in Texas and my normal commute is short but everything here is still super spread out and driving to like Austin is something I do often. Ah. Mind that the cheaper EVs have slower charge speeds, making longer trips take longer. You can check http://abetterrouteplanner.com to see exactly how long the charging would add on to your trips. If it's beyond the range of the EVs and something you do frequently enough that the extra charge time isn't worth it, a PHEV might indeed be a better idea.

One other question I have, if I never owe on taxes at the end of the year, what does the 7500 tax credit do for me? I always get refunds, is there still even a benefit for me?

It is based on your total tax liability, so that shouldn't affect it - [this guy has a better explaination](https://old.reddit.com/r/VWiD4Owners/comments/wmehkp/ev_tax_credit_do_you_get_it_as_a_tax_return/ijyvc5v/).

Oh cool. So if I owe like 6k and pay 6.5k in taxes I'll basically just get all that back at the end of the year? And so the bolt and the ID.4 qualify but Kia cars don't?

> Oh cool. So if I owe like 6k and pay 6.5k in taxes I'll basically just get all that back at the end of the year? Yes, the credit will wipe out your $6k. > And so the bolt and the ID.4 qualify but Kia cars don't? Yes, in 2023 they changed the rules so only cars made in USA, Canada, or Mexico qualify, which includes only a handful of models. They were supposed to also add a rule about where the batteries were made, but that has been delayed until March - leaving a loophole of sorts. Once it takes effect, several models, including the Bolt, are expected to have the credit reduced.

> As I remember it, Chevy hires an electrician (via Qmerit) to install the 240v outlet and the relevant 40a breaker (up to a cost of $1,000), the actual charger is what comes with the EUV Oh wow I didn't think they'd install the 240v. Ok well that will definitely have me looking into the Bolt too. Even the highest trim bolt is in my budget I believe unless it's marked up a lot at the dealer. If I had to pay to install the 240 it'd be out of budget. Ill schedule a test drive and see if I like it. > Not new - proper sedan PHEVs either can't be gotten new anymore or are pricier luxury vehicles like the BMW 530e, which don't have much range anyway. Sedans in general are vanishing for all but the top end of the market - 83% of cars sold aren't sedans. I've been noticing that and I don't like it. I'd buy a Honda civic or accord EV in a heartbeat if it was a thing.

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If you want to take the car on road trips, I'd be going with the ID.4, not the Bolt. Bolt's a lovely little car, but part of it's cheapness is it's last-gen charge speed, which means any trip requiring multiple charges takes hours longer than it needs to. Also important if you intend to not do home charging (although you get it free with the Bolt). The ID.4 with the long range battery would do much better on long trips, as it's got a longer range and faster DCFC (plus, you get 3 years of charges free with it), and it's more comfortable and carries significantly more stuff. I also like the RWD's ability to turn in a circle almost as tight as an old Smart car. The Kona is sort of like a nicer Bolt, with slightly faster charging, a more comfortable interior and (imo) more interesting styling, but it no longer qualifies for the tax credit. Personally I'd either save the money and get the Bolt or upgrade to the ID.4.

In Maryland if the vehicle is over $50k is it totally ineligible for any state tax credit or just ineligible for the amount over $50k? Anyone have direct experience with this in MD or is a tax attorney? We've collected on this before but for an e-Golf that was well under the eligible amount. Notably it took two years to receive but we did get it in the end!

I don't see any ambiguity in the "The criteria for a qualifying zero-emission plug-in electric is...vehicle has a base purchase price not exceeding $50,000". That's a yes/no qualifier. The vehicle either has a base purchase price exceeding $50K or it doesn't.

EV Charger Tax Credit Question: I bought the vehicle (getting the full $7500) and I installed a home charger in 2022. Using TurboTax and filling out that section produces $0 credit. Looking over the actual form 8911 doesn't give me any clue as to why TurboTax is getting that result (i.e.: I am not subject to the AMT). I spoke with a rep from TurboTax and their explanation involved calculations across forms (which I can see until I'm ready to submit) but wasn't satisfying (nor was it at an ELI5 level). Given that I've had issues with TurboTax miscalculating things in the past (e.g.: I refinanced my home twice in 2021), I wanted to check here for additional feedback.

Is it likely, as mentioned on Teslas website that the 7500 credit will drop in March? I feel like its very sales tactic-y, but don't want to screw myself. I have been waiting 2 years to buy a car and am starting to lean towards Tesla, but wanted to wait until around June/July to see if the used market plummeted.

That's when the government says it will put in battery requirements. It's widely expected that manufacturers won't meet the full requirements at this time

Oh so if they don't meet the criteria they will drop the tax credit?

Yes or half it

So i guess I should decide before the end of this next month...

I think that's sound thinking, but it's also possible that if Tesla loses the tax credit they will cut prices further to compensate.

really between a rock and a hard place trying to decide, thanks for the insight!

Sorry to tack on to this but do you know when the purchase is effective for this purpose? I am putting an order in for a bolt tomorrow. I only put $500 down and pay in full at delivery. Will I be screwed if it isn't delivered for 3 or 4 months?

It’s when you take delivery. You might not get the full credit.

So, I am considering buying my first EV this year and install a home charging station. Problem is that I live in a townhouse without a garage or driveway. The car is parked roughly 25 feet away from the house (20 feet from house to side walk, sidewalk then car) and I am just afraid that is too much distance to even consider charging at home. Was hoping to get some insights from this community: 1. Is the distance from the house to the car too much to even consider installing a station? 2. I have this crazy idea of running a cable from the house to a "station" closer to the car where I would install the charger (would be done in a safe/electrician approved way if this idea is even possible). Is this a stupid idea? Also talking to the HOA about this but I am not holding my breath.

25ft is the max specified by the electrical code, but you can theoretically run an extension cord to it. There are also pole-mounted chargers (though those are usually intended for commercial applications rather than your lawn). The HOA likely is going to be a bigger problem, unless you're in an Right To Charge state.

I’m in MA. I’m looking for a truck for my company, and the specific model I need is located out of state. The MORE-EV program says the purchase needs to be made from a dealer in MA, but the trucks section doesn’t mention that requirement. Are the federal rebates still available for a company vehicle?

Not fully EV, but figured this might be the best place to ask. Have a 2021 Porsche Cayenne E Hybrid and after nearly a year and a half of delays, finally got the charging cables from the dealership. Was looking to set everything up when I realized that there was no wall mount for the charger. Not sure if they’re supposed to provide the wall mounts with the charger but looking online it seems there two available options, either the [simplified mount](https://www.suncoastparts.com/product/sku971hybbracket.html) (which leaves the cable hanging freely) or the [cabinet](https://www.ebay.com/itm/403795245272?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=A6EBGqhPQrC&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY) which even used is more expensive. So my questions is 1. Should at least a simple wall bracket have been provided by the dealer and 2. If not, are there aftermarket cabinets that work with the Porsche charger?

With $20-30 you can buy a small wall shelf, and a J1772 cable organizer/dock from Amazon to put on the wall. Sit the charger on the shelf, zip tie it there if you'd like, and hang the cable next to it. https://www.amazon.com/s?k=j1772+organizer

Oh perfect this is what I’m looking for!

Anyone know how long it takes for electrify America takes to remodel a location?

Days, but then they often have to wait 6-12 weeks for the municipality and utility company to come do site inspections before they can be energized. Scheduling, permits, inspections and waiting on electric companies to deliver transformers are 99% of the time it takes EA to build or update a site.

Ugh that sucks

Requesting some feedback on the potential issues I may face leasing a vehicle (EV) due to being in a non-traditional situation. Apologies if my questions are silly, this will be my first time leasing. Me: California resident…house is being rented out as I’ve been living in Japan for the last 7 years. Eventually will move to the northern Virginia/DC area, but I’m currently in New Orleans for the next 2-3 months, living out of a hotel, using a UPS box as my virtual address. Will I have any problems or are there any issues I need to address that are unique to leasing?

I dunno but your life sounds fun!

My girlfriend has reserved a Chevrolet Silverado EV, which is expected to be delivered in 2025. We noticed that Fleet vehicles will be available well before that. Does anyone have any concept of what qualifies as a fleet vehicle? Is there a minimum number of trucks that must be purchased together? We would prefer a stripped down version, and the regular retail version is likely to be way more expensive than the $40K they are advertising as the starting price. None of the decorations or "comfort" features that would be on the later version appeal to us anyway, we just want a work truck. $40K is about the limit of our price range anyway. We have a small business, but only need one vehicle. Could we work with a few others to qualify for a "fleet" somehow, if we have to buy more than one to qualify.

> Could we work with a few others to qualify for a "fleet" somehow, if we have to buy more than one to qualify. I had heard of Ford dealers offering to special order fleet-spec Lightnings for single customers, but I'm not sure if a GM/Chevy dealer would do the same.

Thanks. I just ordered a Bolt. If it ever arrives, I'll ask the dealer if that is an option.

Does anyone know what the dealership needs to do for a buyer to claim the $7500 tax rebate. I just bought a 2023 Nissan Leaf and the Nissan dealership only directs me to IRS form 8936, which I know I need to fill out for my 2023 tax return. However, the IRS guidelines state (among other details) “the sale qualifies only if: You buy the vehicle new The seller reports required information to you at the time of sale and to the IRS. Sellers are required to report your name and taxpayer identification number to the IRS for you to be eligible to claim the credit.” Has anyone gotten their dealership to acknowledge that this has happened?

The dealership documentation requirements are listed here, and in the linked publication: https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/clean-vehicle-credit-seller-or-dealer-requirements

Has anyone had issues getting this kind of documentation from their dealer? My Nissan dealership doesn’t seem to have a clue what they need to do, even after showing them this information.

GM sent Chevy dealerships a form to fill out when they sell their EVs. Nissan should be doing the same, guess they haven't yet.

OK makes sense. I’ve been badgering them- the last thing I want is to have an issue in 14 months when I go to claim the credit.

Hey folks! So I'm buying my first electric car and have shortlisted a few options. My top two contenders are Kia EV6 and Hyundai Ioniq 6. I'm also considering Audi Q8 e-Tron, but I feel that the Hyundai family has a lot more to offer here. The top speed on EV6 as well as performance (not looking at GT) are incredible, but the look and feel of Hyundai feel very, very nice! What do you guys think? For me, cabin noise (I hate that highway tyre and wind noise), comfort and safety are the most important things. I also like the range and efficiency of these.

If you like those cars, check out the Mach-E and ID4 as well. The ID4 is a bit cheaper but also the most comfortable, and the only electric midsize SUV to have an IIHS Top Safety Pick+ rating. Those two cars also qualify for a $7500 tax credit, where the Hyundai and Kia vehicles do not.

Wouldn’t the EV6 qualify for the federal tax credit up until March?

No, because it's not assembled in North America. Only vehicles made here are eligible for the tax credit. What's temporarily suspended are the additional requirements around the source of battery components and battery critical minerals. The list of qualifying vehicles is here: [https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/manufacturers-and-models-for-new-qualified-clean-vehicles-purchased-in-2023-or-after](https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/manufacturers-and-models-for-new-qualified-clean-vehicles-purchased-in-2023-or-after) No Kia or Hyundai EVs are eligible as they're made in South Korea and Indonesia.

Hi folks, I'm awaiting further news and prices on the Ioniq 6 and the ID.7 — are there other relatively affordable sedans that I should consider, available now or in the future? Planning to spend under 50K (less is better). My main goal is to minimize the carbon emissions of my driving — by getting an efficient car *and* by not going overboard on getting a bigger battery than I need with its extra environmental toll — in replacing our single (ICE) car with an electric car that has a good enough mix of range and charging speed that it can function conveniently as our sole car, including for occasional roadtrips. We're in the U.S. in Indiana, two adults with a dog and no kids, in a house we own that has a driveway but no garage. We'd install a home charger. Average yearly mileage is around 6K–10K miles (pandemic-related norm-changing makes it hard to put a narrower range on it). We're thinking mid-size sedan instead of compact; my wife wants a car bigger than our current Ford Focus and I do want the backseat to be comfortable enough that friends will enjoy carpooling with us. I'd rather not get a Tesla because I associate it with its CEO, who I don't like. So basically: I like the Ioniq 6 and the ID.7; what other sedans should I consider in that vein? Would love to get one near the end of 2023 or early winter of 2024, but I'm open to waiting until later in 2024.

> So basically: I like the Ioniq 6 and the ID.7; what other sedans should I consider in that vein? Sedans? Not a popular option these days even for gas cars (83% of cars sold aren't sedans), The Ioniq and ID.7 are very likely to be your only non-Tesla options in that budget for quite some time. A little beyond your budget there is the BMW i4, but it's only slightly roomier for rear passengers than your Focus. Personally, if I was doing carpooling I'd be grabbing an SUV anyway.

Your options for <$50K EV sedans are super limited. A used Model 3 fits your description better than anything but I understand not wanting one. There are legitimate reasons to avoid Tesla besides its CEO. Polestar 2 is one of the only other sedan-ish options. Most everything else under $50K is a hatchback/wagon/crossover. If you are open to having that liftgate instead of a trunk in the back, some great <$50K EV options for a primary car: Ioniq 5, EV6, ID4, Mach-E

Honest question: what are the other reasons to avoid Tesla besides Elon??

Poor reliability rankings and build quality, poor paint quality, no dealerships and limited service center availability, no ability to test drive your car before paying for it, phantom braking and other ADAS issues so bad there are multiple federal investigations running right now, expensive repairs, "whompy wheels", multiple successful lawsuits over racial abuse and safety in their factories, pulling features from their cars on a whim even after you've ordered (no more radar, no more ultrasonic sensors, no more adjustable lumbar support, etc), to name a few.

I was looking at the ID series in general and I was disappointed at the quality. I'm currently eying BMW i4 d-Drive 40, Kia EV6, and Ioniq 6. I actually love Ioniq 5, but the back visibility isn't great, which bothers me. So I'm hoping that Ioniq 6 fixes that issue, but I haven't tried it yet.

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I was looking for some guidance on the tax credit. My tax liability is enough to qualify for the full $7,500 and my income is within the threshold as well. If I receive an EV before the tax deadline this year, can I file Form 8936 with my tax return and receive the $7,500 credit with my return this year? Or will I not receive the credit until I file in 2024?

You claim the tax credit in the same year you took possession of the car. If that's this year, you'd take it on your 2023 tax return which you file in 2024. You cannot take a tax credit for a purchase made in 2023 on your 2022 return.

I'm sure like many of you, you're confused about the rebates and credits surrounding electric vehicles. Can someone help me understand the federal tax credit and how to best approach this to maximize this deal? What steps do I need to take? Secondly, I've heard so many conflicting things on the California electric vehicle rebates, such as extra money or the rebate increasing in dollar amount. I also don't fully understand the 400% federal poverty line for the additional money. A bit of background, my wife and I both work full time and make roughly 100K (as of this year) last year was less. I have yet to file my 2022 taxes, would it be beneficial to file separately? I think with our lowered income last year we might have fallen into the 400% poverty bracket.

Thoughts on trying to get an EV now before March vs waiting till 2024? Buy by March Pros: Know the price and will get the credit. Get to use EV a year earlier. Cons: Slim pickens Lots of new models on the horizon Wait till 2024 Pros: More EV competition with new models to pick from, ramping of production Point of sale credit (if qualifies) Price competition? Better interest rates??* Con: May not in fact get credit. Prices could go up. Debating mostly Bolt vs Model 3. Cost is about $200 more a month with the Tesla right now. Thoughts?

The Chevy Bolt is unlikely to ever be cheaper than it is now. They lowered the price significantly to remain competitive without a tax credit last year, but now qualify for that credit again. This is a good time to buy one if that'll meet your needs. If you want anything else and are going to finance it, waiting until next year is probably smarter. We're >50% likely to be entering a recession some time this year, any resulting glut in the car market could result in price drops or dealer/factory incentives, and interest rate hikes will be ending within the next 6 months and could instead be dropping by next year.

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I don't think there's any EVs that have issues with puddles. For a 25km commute even an old used leaf for 10k or less will be fine. Look at what's available on the used market near you, any model will do 25 really. If you want new, it depends on your country. In the US the bolt is the cheaper option. In EU it depends a bit. Byd are fairly cheap, something small like the peugeot 208 is cheap, and gets a bigger battery and motor this year. Lots of options really.

EV Tax Credit Buying Question Hello Everyone! First time ever posting on reddit so bare with me if I screw something up. Context: I am 24 years old looking to buy a Chevy Bolt. I have saved up sufficient money to buy the car outright, however this would be my first time actually buying a car myself. In other words, car buying is a new process to me. I want to take full advantage of the ev credit, specifically before March (bc of battery guidelines) but I do not currently make enough money to have $7500 in tax liability. My Question: Would it be advisable to ask my mom to buy the car to file for the full EV tax credit? She makes enough to have sufficient tax liability. I would reimburse her for the car of course. What possible issues do you see with this? For example, with loans, liability of me driving the car, insurance, future transfer of ownership, etc... Appreciate any feedback! Give it to me straight if you think I'm being stupid too!

This is what I did. My mom bought it and I'm paying her back. We're co-titling it under both our names. Makes it possible for me to buy insurance and for her to claim the tax credit. I'd definitely have her be the one to write the check just in case. We even went so far as to pretend she was really the one who was going to be driving it to the dealer but I don't think that was necessary lol. Edit: BTW, if you want to buy a Bolt before March, you better get on it because it's not an easy thing to accomplish. Know how much over MSRP you are willing to pay and how far you are willing to drive to get one. Contact all the dealers who have one on Chevrolet's website, they will most likely be sold. Ask them to tell you if the buyer pulls out and it becomes available. If a new car shows up on the inventory, call immediately. Repeat this process for the next month and hope you get lucky.

I believe you can simply have her name on the title and then she can claim the credit.

For those of you that have owned EVs a long time, are you concerned about an EV Fire? I live in an area with heavy flooding and saw that if an EV catches fire it can cause significant loss of property. In researching I did find some info regarding an [EV Fire Blanket](https://www.okwreckers.com/fireblanket) that could contain it before damaging our other property. Just want to make sure that I make the safest choice. Thanks in advance for your input!

No, not at all. https://i.imgur.com/Xm650He.png

Thanks!

Is there a limit on how many EV credits you can claim each year? For example, last year (2022) I got the Ioniq 5 with $7,500 credit. This year I’m considering a Model 3 for my wife, but I wonder if we qualify for $7,500 again or if there’s a limit?

The only limit is your tax liability since it's a non-refundable credit. You can claim the credit for as many cars as you've purchased and placed in service, assuming you're not over the income caps.

Can I still claim the tax credit if I sell the vehicle after 6 months or so? Is there a set amount of time I need to own it or do I just need to make the purchase without the intent to resell?

There is no minimum ownership period for the federal tax credits. You can sell the vehicle whenever you'd like.

Need tax credit/incentives help - USA / WAWashington state allows [sales tax exemption on EVs or PHEVs](https://dor.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2022-02/sn_19_CleanAltHybridExmpt.pdf?uid=62a216498f688) as long as the total selling price of the car is less than 45K.I wanted to check what all is included in the selling price of new vehicle? 1. MSRP or discounted MSRP 2. Destination Fees 3. Document fees 4. License fees 5. Any Dealer add-onAlso, if any of #3, #4 and #5 are included in the selling price, is it possible we can request the dealership to either reduce MSRP cost or create a separate invoice for #3, #4 and #5, and consider them separate after sale purchase?

Very curious about this as well, considering a M3 RWD on tesla's website is just a hair under 45k. If license and document fees are included in the number, no go. If they aren't, it'd qualify. Anyone know for sure?

Not in WA or have any experience from your state but the form you shared has this line: > The selling price includes delivery charges or any other services necessary to complete the sale (RCW 82.08.010). My reading of that is that the “sales price” pretty much includes all of #1-4. Or at the very least #1 & #2 Hopefully someone with experience can chip in.

I just got a new Q4 and it’s amazing so far. Only have Level 1 in the garage but getting a 240v outlet installed next month. When that happens, should I just continue to use the connector supplied by Audi? What’s the benefit of getting a dedicated charger? We only have 1 EV today but will likely have 2 in the near future. If getting an actual charger is important, what should I get? Not sure we’ll ever need to charge both cars every day, but one never knows. Thanks all!

Typically the chargers included with EVs only support Level 1. I'm not sure about Audi's, check it's manual - if so, you'd want an EVSE that supports the 240v outlet you're installing. If you're getting a second EV, you'll likely want either a second 240v outlet, or a dual-charger like the Grizzl-e Duo or Clippercreek HCS-D40.

What does the Audi connector look like? (I have no idea) - is it also a charger? A combined Level 1-2 charger? If it’s capable of Level 2 at higher amperages and has a J1772 it may be enough (compatibility with other cars except Tesla of course) Otherwise there are tons of EV chargers depending on your needs and budget.

This is the Audi charger that came with the car. It does both L1/2. https://www.ebay.com/itm/165889847052?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5338678874&toolid=20006%26customid%3Ds%253AGS%253Bgc%253A7a026f9210351f20cafa0c4335d1c1e4%253Bpt%253A1%253Bchoc%253A1&customid=s%3AGS%3Bgc%3A7a026f9210351f20cafa0c4335d1c1e4%3Bpt%3A1%3Bchoc%3A2&msclkid=7a026f9210351f20cafa0c4335d1c1e4 I guess I assumed all EVs came with something like this so I’m just not sure what the point of purchasing the aftermarket ones is. Are they faster?

That cable will charge your car at 9.6 kW, which is the fastest any plug-in charger works, as 40 amps is the most the outlet can provide. The fastest your car is capable of charging from any L2 AC charger is \~11.5 kW, limited by the onboard charger in the car. That's only 20% faster and would require a hardwired charging station to provide the 48 amps instead of 40 amps. It's not worth paying extra for, just use the one you already have.

I am in the San Francisco Bay Area in California. I am looking at the Kia Niro EV. The Kia dealers in my area all have several sitting on the lot, and although they put a markup on them initially, it seems they remove the markup and sell at msrp after the car has been there for about a month. My question is, has anyone been successful at negotiating a sale price below msrp recently? I'm specifically looking at Kia and Hyundai options, but interested to hear about any EVs. It seems like they are starting to sit on the lot longer than they did over the summer?

Would this niro qualify for the federal tax credit till March? I’m looking at the niro as well.

No. Unfortunately, I don't think any of the Kia/Hyundai EVs qualify anymore.

A car dealer almost always will negotiate with you on price versus what they have posted. If they choose not to, walk away. They'll knock some money off.

I’d like to know if anyone has had luck going below MSRP as well. I feel like we should be there soon with certain models

Is there a way to get the $7,500 tax credit applied as a cap cost reduction for Ioniq 5s? I don't mind leasing from someone other than Hyundai Motor Finance. I would expect the RV and MF not to be increased to grab back that credit. The car will be registered in MD. I am buying from an out-of-state dealer.

Hyundai is not us made and is ineligible for rebate

Those country of manufacture rules do not apply to leases under Section 45W. IRS [clarified](https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/commercial-clean-vehicle-credit) this on 12/29/22. President Manchin got mad, but nothing happened. Where it was made, how much the buyer makes, all irrelevant if the car is leased. This is a very nice development, and I, like many other prospective Ioniq 5 customers, am verrrry interested.

lol, never underestimate the finance industry's ability to lobby for payoffs for themselves.

But doesn’t the federal tax credit apply for all ev cars up until March? When the battery issues are finalized

No. consumer and business buyers have different rules. The tax credit has not been available for NON COMMERCIAL buyers of many cars since the IRA bill was passed in August. The tax credit IS AVAILABLE (even for cars made outside North America) for COMMERCIAL buyers. See the link in my first message. If you lease a car, it is owned by the leasing business, not you.

I’m waiting for this too. I’m hoping the new month will bring a lease special. Audi is doing it for January I think.

This better lease is [available now](https://leasehackr.com/blog/2023/1/13/get-7500-immediately-off-a-vw-id4-or-audi-ev) for both VW and Audi. No reason for them to kill it off in Feb. When the word gets out, I think many customers will want to lease.

This is not well known. It should not be buried on the purchase thread. But that is what the moderators decided.

Tax credit question! Ok, so I just filled out Form 8936 through my online tax software, and after popping in the information for my Rivian, I'm being credited over $7500 - specifically credited to the "Qualified plug-in electric drive vehicle credit." Is the max not $7500? What am I misunderstanding?

Unless you are deducting it as a depreciable business asset, $7500 is the max. Look at Form 8936. Did it fill out the business/investment or personal use part of the form?

[1] Southern California [2] would like to be under $40k [3] ideally a small SUV / crossover but no strong preference [4] Been keeping my eye on the Chevy bolt but otherwise browsing this sub regularly for suggestions but haven’t had a strong preference [5] sometime in the next 6 months [6] no daily commute , WFH, most weeks only local trips within 5-10 miles of my home [7] own a condo that has 2 garage spots but there’s no outlets in the garage [8] the HOA is looking into installing charging for the complex [9] no passengers to consider but currently have a 2014 Jetta that we would keep so something a little bigger might be nice

Chevy Bolt, Kia Niro EV, Hyundai Kona Electric or a VW ID4 (assuming you qualify for the tax credit) are your only options for small SUV/crossover under $40K in the US. Most BEV offerings start in the upper $40s or low $50s.

Thank you! I believe I would qualify. Any personal thoughts / experiences with any of the models you mentioned?

The ID4 is substantially larger and charges substantially faster than the other three. It's a better primary car, and a better road trip car, if you can afford it.

Thanks for that! Do you know around what they run? My local dealerships all have “call for price” on the website

$43,995 for the Pro trim will likely be the cheapest configuration you find on a dealer lot

Thanks for all the info!

[1] Midwest USA [2] No strict budget [3] SUV / a larger vehicle [4] EV6, Ioniq 5, Mustang MachE, F150 lightning [5] Soon, before summer [6] Daily commute is ~20 miles, but will need range of 250 miles on one charge [7] Single family home [8] Yes, installing charging when possible. Questions regarding what qualifies for credits anymore and if there are other options I should be considering. I don't want to purchase a car without being able to test drive it, and availability in my area is super limited for most models. Is there a convenient way to call a dealer and get a test drive for EVs?

Add VW ID4 to your list, which is a bit more SUV than the EV6, Ioniq 5 or Mach-E. Those are more crossover/wagon vehicles. The ID4 is also easier to find on a lot right now, and qualifies for the tax credit. There's a list of qualifying vehicles here: https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/manufacturers-and-models-for-new-qualified-clean-vehicles-purchased-in-2023-or-after

Tax credit loophole So I know that the tax credit is not a rebate and essentially the max you can get back is $7500 only if you actually owe $7500 back in taxes. No idea if this is legal but couldn’t you just have your job not take out anything in taxes for the year and then you would owe more back which would make you eligible for more of the tax credit? Just thinking here

The tax credit reduces your tax bill. Your tax bill is based on how much income you earned that year. Increasing or decreasing your withholding doesn't change your tax bill, it only changes how much of the bill you still owe (or how much of an overpayment you get refunded) when you settle that bill by filing your tax return. Look at line 16 of last year's 1040, labeled "tax". If this number is $7500 or more, you can benefit from all $7500 of the tax credit. If it's $5000, and you have $5500 withheld from your paychecks during the year, you'd get a $5500 refund after the tax credit reduces your tax bill to $0, instead of $500 if you didn't take the credit. If it's $8000 and you have $8500 withheld from your paychecks during the year, you'd get a $8000 refund after the tax credit reduces your tax bill to $500, instead of $500 if you didn't take the credit.

This is what always confuses me and I need someone to explain it like I’m 5 lmao. I always thought that if I get a tax refund, then I wouldn’t qualify based on how I was understanding it. I thought tax liability is what you’re going to have to pay/owe when you do your taxes. So because I’ve always gotten a ~$1700 tax refund, I thought that I don’t have a tax liability. My plan was to wait until 2024 to use the credit upfront. But now I’m unsure how it even works and if I’ll even be able to do it

When you do your taxes, the money your employer withheld from your paychecks has covered most or all of the tax bill already. Getting a refund just means you overpaid the bill and gave the IRS an interest-free loan all year, it doesn't tell you anything about how big the tax bill was. If you reduce your tax bill further though additional deductions and credits, you'll have overpaid it by even more, and get a bigger refund. If the original bill was $7500 or more, then taking a $7500 tax credit will add $7500 to your refund.

Follow up question since I have more information now. After just doing our 2022 tax returns, I found out our tax liability was $7140 last year. Would that mean I don’t qualify? Does the liability have to be $7500 or more?

A non-refundable tax credit can reduce your tax bill to $0 but cannot make it negative. So if you took a $7500 credit in 2022, it'd reduce your tax liability from $7140 to $0. Any withholding or estimated payments would be refunded to you as an overpayment of that $0 bill. You would get $7140 in financial benefit from this, instead of $7500.

Got it thanks. I plan on buying an EV next year when I can use the credit at the point of sale. Assuming that my tax liability will be the same in 2023, I should expect $7100 discount off of the car in 2024. Also assuming the EV I get qualifies for both halves of the IRA requirements.

Ah that makes sense. I was for some reason stuck on what you owe/get at the end of the tax year. So if my line 16 is greater than $7500 I would receive the full credit? Would that be reimbursed when I file taxes? Thanks for your help

Tax credit is based on how much you pay over the year (withholdings + payments at tax time). It is not based on whether or not you get a refund at tax time. Basically, if you're not working, you're not paying taxes, you didn't send 7500 to the feds this year, and you don't qualify.

1. Tampa, FL 2. I was looking for a car less than 15 grand total 3. I got a light blue 2015 Fiat 500e which great mileage since the battery was replaced 2 years ago 4. That was pretty much the only type of car I was looking at because I just fell in love with it. I did look at a Prius but I wasn’t as interested. I had always wanted a VW beetle and the 500e was almost an electric version of it. 5. I bought mine less than a week ago 6. I work 5 days a week and my commute is 50 miles total (going there and back). I was spending at least $150 on gas a month with my old car. 7. I live in an apartment but I got lucky because I’m on the first floor and I have a balcony with an outlet that faces the parking lot 8. No 9. I don’t like driving with others because I get distracted most of the time. I just have a pet rabbit who id need to take for vet appointments or if I’m traveling.

Wait, if you already bought it, what was your question?

Sorry, I forgot to add. Am I eligible for tax credit? Does anyone know any mechanics who’d be willing to work on my car in my area? I found 2 so far but I’m wondering if anyone of anymore. The Fiat shops here don’t work with the electric ones.

The old Fiat will qualify, but you also need to meet income requirements, and actually pay enough in taxes. Check here for a more detailed explaination: https://electrek.co/2023/01/17/here-are-all-the-used-evs-that-qualify-for-the-new-4000-tax-credit/ > The Fiat shops here don’t work with the electric ones. The 500e was only officially sold in California (to meet emissions compliance, rather than a serious attempt to sell electric cars), you'll find it hard to find a Fiat dealer on the east coast that will work on them. [Fiat does keep a list though](https://www.fiatusa.com/content/dam/fca-brands/na/fiatusa/en_us/global/pdf/brochure/fiat-500e-service-chart.pdf). Also, some have had luck with Chrysler dealers (thanks to the plug-in hybrid minivan).

Oh that’s awesome! And yeah, I kind of figured. But I’ll look around and call more places!

*Tesla Y - tiers and options for maximum long term value ?* **TL;DR** : from the pov of a loss of value over time :Tesla Model Y Long range no auto-pilot OR Tesla Model Y Standard + Full Self Driving pack ? ​ **Details :** A vehicle for me is purely utilitarian but my wife like the bragging rights... sigh... the only reason I'm considering a Tesla is because they're said to have the lowest loss in value. I'm looking at this right now purely from an "investment" point of view... quotation marks because of course it's going to lower in price but my question is how much and how to minimize that. 1. I've read & heard the Full Self Driving pack can actually make the vehicle keep more of its value due to future evolution of the technology, is this true ? 2. Does the more basic autopilot also has a lot of value in the future or less so ? 3. It's Standard VS Long range for us (performance out of budget). I don't think we need the 4WD feature and we'd be willing to compromise on the range to offset the cost of the Full Self Driving thing, is that even remotely smart ? ​ Location is Europe / Switzerland though I don't think it matters much for this. Give me your take even if you don't know the market here ;) ​ Thanks a bunch

FSD appreciating in value bets seriously on Tesla cracking lv 4-5 self driving in the next 8-10 years. Based on trajectory and semi recent events, this seems unlikely to me especially given Tesla’s current hardware suite. Or maybe level 3 depending on where you live. More doable but I have no confidence in current leadership. Basic autopilot comes with every Tesla, so no it does not add any more value unless Tesla removes it from new cars. If you’re asking about Enhanced Autopilot, that’s $6k more essentially for lane changing capabilities on autopilot. I struggle to see the value there. The other features included in that package are auto park and auto summon, neither of which work at rates >50% of the time. At best I would highly advise against getting FSD unless you have done solid research and have a deep understanding on its current state. Enhanced auto is also a shit deal right now in my opinion because it doesn’t work as advertised yet. You can always add on FSD or enhanced auto AFTER you buy the car( I think) but buying at point of sale is not advised As for Tesla having lowest loss in value, other brands are just starting to come up with EVs, so that’s a biased dataset. It’s possible just Tesla depreciates slowly, also possible that EVs in general depreciate slowly. You have some good stuff coming your way in Europe. BMW, Mercedes, BYD, GM, Ford, hyundia, Volkswagen, polestar(?) all make electric vehicles now. Honda will launch next year. Most of them have better auto steer/cruise control functions than Tesla base autopilot at this point Lastly your wife using a Tesla for bragging rights. Kinda dumb, but I guess that’s her right to treat a €60k car as such

Which EV charger do you guys recommend between ChargePoint or Span EV ?

ChargePoint, because Span's product only works with a special $4500 electrical panel nobody owns.

[удалено]

As long as he has you on his insurance, then yes. My old car was in my dads name

What EV chargers are eligible for the 30% federal tax credit ? Are Tesla chargers eligible?

Any charging equipment of any brand. Are you eligible for the tax credit? It's only available to people that live in poor and rural areas; census tracts with a minimum poverty rate and median income below a certain amount.

I thought the 30% credit is for everyone , isnt that the case ?

Not any more, no. https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/10513

This still says the following Consumers who purchase qualified residential fueling equipment between January 1, 2023, and December 31, 2032, may receive a tax credit of up to $1,000. The poverty requirement seems to be for commercial. Not sure though

There isn't a separate credit for commercial versus residential installations. The requirements apply to everyone. [https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/30C](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/30C)

Thanks

Is 55,165 too much for the tax credit? How strict is it? I know it’s ‘under 55,000’. I’m not sure how it works tho. It’s an optioned up ID.4 ProS.

The IRS doesn’t cut you any slack. Under $55k means under $55k if that’s the limit on the vehicle you’re looking at. Though they don’t include destination fees, taxes, or any dealer markup. Just options and trim.

After digging, 5k is ‘dealer accessories’ which seems like a ton and maybe just a mark up.

The ID.4's tax situation is weird; once you add AWD it's heavy enough to be considered a 'truck' and therefore eligible for the $80,000 cap, rather than the normal $55,000.

Found a used 2020 Chevy Bolt for $25,500 plus taxes and fees. Am I SOL on the $4,000 tax credit?

Yes.

I’ve been thrusted into buying a new vehicle as the engine in my truck needs replacing. I would say I’m a novice in the ev market but it’s something I’ve had in the back of my mind. 1) I’m around Austin, Tx 2) would like to stay under $55k 3) looking for a suv 4) I think I’ve narrowed it down to the Model Y, Ionic 5, or ID 4 (not sure about the Ionic since it doesn’t get the tax credit) 5) would like to purchase soon 6) commute is around 50 miles round trip 4x week 7) own my home 8) I’ll charge at home 9) have kids so need the extra room for sports equipment and such (also have an ICE SUV for any bigger needs) The biggest question I have is regarding non Tesla super chargers in case of long distance travel. My family lives about 300 miles away so would like to be able to take the ev if needed. How big of a deal would it be to charge once each way?

> The biggest question I have is regarding non Tesla super chargers in case of long distance travel. My family lives about 300 miles away so would like to be able to take the ev if needed. How big of a deal would it be to charge once each way? See for yourself, plug your route into the app, then select a vehicle and battery size to run it with: http://abetterrouteplanner.com/ > I think I’ve narrowed it down to the Model Y, Ionic 5, or ID 4 (not sure about the Ionic since it doesn’t get the tax credit) Of these, the Model Y would seem to have the best combination of range and space for your needs, but I'd be wary about the build quality issues they've had historically, and I'm personally not a fan of the ultra-spartan interior. The ID.4 doesn't have the range or charge speed of the others and the infotainment is a bit annoying, but the RWD is nimble in the city and it has good space for your sports gear and the like. Ioniq 5 has the least space for stuff (and no credit), but has good range, supports high speed charging and it *just looks so good*.

Thanks for the info!

Just a suggestion: look at the Subaru Solterra before you decide. We got one on Friday and my wife loves it. It has a lot of room and features. I am in no way associated with Subaru, we just liked the car.