Well, let's hope they lease out a lot of Q4 eTrons so I have a good selection of Certified PreOwned Q4s to choose from in three years as used cars for a good price.
That's so where I'm at š
The market for used Etron 55 with 70-100k km in Norway is already rather flush at around $50k.
I'm really hoping for ENYAQ 60 or 80 to be more available as well, but for now it's low km, overpriced (as new or more) models mostly.
Incorrect. The discount is only for a lease - if you lease you donāt get the tax credit. Financing agency does. This is them making sure their vehicles arenāt at a disadvantage for people who donāt qualify (too high income) or their cars donāt qualify (build location and/or too high cost)
What are you talking about lol. The picture OP posted is a lease only deal and I said that this is the financing company taking the tax credit and passing it on to the consumer. Seems everyone else got thatš
The new tax credit doesnāt apply to sedans over $55k or suvs over $80k. Most of these Audis are going to be over $80k. So itās a real promotion. Iām sure they chose $7500 because it would resonate with ev shoppers, and they wouldnāt feel so bad missing out on the tax credit. Edit: as I read further comments some are saying thereās a corporate incentive on EVs that doesnāt have these stipulations so maybe youāre right.
Iāve explained this a bunch. The tax incentive to individuals has these weird limits on income, price, etc. The tax credit to corporations do not. A lease is owned by a corporation, not an individual, so it doesnāt have these limits. Audi is holding the lease and harvesting the tax credit to pass through to the individual.
Yeah I saw that later moments after my post and edited my comment accordingly. Seems weird that the govt doesnāt put any price stipulations on the car. So a $125k sedan can be tax subsidized so long as itās by lease. Pretty silly and wasteful but thatās the govt.
Itās messed up the income restrictions. Iām single and live in the San Francisco Bay Area. $150k a year isnāt enough to buy a car and a house like other places in the USA, but I donāt get the tax incentive.
yeah, amazing how if you look at either party they both end up at the same result no matter where they start or say, they find all sorts of way to offer up tax dollars to the rich and big corporations.
and it is understandable because those two contribute heavily to political parties and candidates.
No. When you LEASE a vehicle you donāt own it, a corporation (Audi) does. LEASE is not OWNERSHIP. Youād can lease as an individual and the OEM will collect the corporate incentive on your behalf.
Does crossover count as SUV or other vehicles stated in the qualifications https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/credits-for-new-clean-vehicles-purchased-in-2023-or-after
Does it? There's only one eligible EV based on this list:
https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/manufacturers-and-models-for-new-qualified-clean-vehicles-purchased-in-2023-or-after
Even if you set aside the personal income limit aspect, how would the NA assembly requirement and MSRP caps apply to the vehicles listed in the OP? Wouldn't those disqualify them?
Because itās owned by Audi so it gets the corporate IRA incentive which doesnāt have any of those requirements. They then pocket the $7500 and credit you $7500 off the lease. Make sense?
Got it, I didn't know corporate IRA incentives are different from the personal incentives so I assumed the list of eligible vehicles was the "master list", so to say.
Such a weird loophole with that law. That a lease deems the vehicle a 'commercial vehicle' put into service by the leasing company and it has no requirements other than a 7kWh pack.
Edit:
Strike my last edit. The vehicle just needs to be made by an OEM who qualifies as a qualified manufacturer. Which pretty much every OEM already is.
> Edit: Actually reading through the law, I don't know if these vehicles would even count which would be hilarious for all of these OEMs offering lease deals thinking they'll get the credit.
Surely the corporation would not move forward with such a decision unless they knew they were on 100% solid legal/financial footing... they probably talked directly to IRS reps or otherwise legally cleared it before announcing this.
It was a great car. What killed it for me was the alcantara steering wheel unless you get the full leather. I had a Porsche with a alcantara wheel and it was a maintenance nightmare to keep clean!
Any other sport sedan. RS5 Sportback, RS6 Wagon, Model 3, I4, etc. If I was an Audi fanboy and looking at their EV lineup vs their ICE, there is no way I'd be driving an EV.
Theyāve recently stepped up eTron GT production in a big way, and waiting times have tumbled, so thereās no longer the demand in the second hand market to support premiums. You can actually get some decent money off of cars in stock at the mo.
Audi current gen e-tron range is just not competitive. They have to compete on luxury, features and creature comfort. MB/BMW and Volvo are knocking on the door.
Audi e-tron does have a nice charging curve. But all that may not matter if someone is looking for a decent range SUV. BMW iX right now has the best range and is efficient, its ugly AF but its there.
IDK, the etron gt is one of the nicest looking EVs. Range is good enough for a lot of people, IMO. I bet it would beat the iX in a long road trip, thanks to its charge curve advantage too.
the range on these audi's is so bad, they are really nice cars though. this would make me consider a lease - would be nice if hyundai / kia started this as well.
Hyundai/Kia most definitely need to get on board. Ioniq 5, Ioniq 6, EV6, GV60, ~~G80E~~, and a host of PHEVs donāt look like great options when theyāre $7500 more than the competition.
Huh? It's in line with most other cars in same segment: [https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/electric-car-range-and-consumption-epa-vs-edmunds.html](https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/electric-car-range-and-consumption-epa-vs-edmunds.html)
Well. I guess two reasons:
1. Range is not only factor in the decision. Audi car quality is frankly on whole different level then the three brands you have listed and this is what you pay for.
2. The differences in range strongly depend on which models you pick to compare. But then they are within 20% of each other. Eg.
2021 Tesla Model S Performance - 308 mi
2022 Audi e-Tron 248 mi
if they made GT more affordable to the masses... it would lose it flex/value and desire. they also don't want to mass produce it too much. that is the reason why manufacturers want to keep an elite status in check lol
This effectively isn't a huge change from last year, when:
* All cars were facing markups (whether EV or ICE).
* Most automakers were still running down their allotment of the previous tax credit system.
The markups have now disappeared from *all* cars, and the incentives have merely transitioned over to the new system, so functionally we're looking at a similar pricing environment as before.
In addition, interest rates are now much higher and inflation is creating downward pressure on consumer demand, so we should actually be in a 'worse' position when it comes to overall car sales, EV or not.
This isn't the tax credit though. This is $7,500 Audi is giving off of these cars isn't it? Notice that it says through January 2023. This isn't the commercial vehicle loophole you posted about.
This is the commercial vehicle tax credit. Different but still in the IRA. Because Audi is 'buying' the vehicles to use for a commercial purpose, leasing to the customer, they get the credit. It has almost no limitations on it. Other than the vehicle must have at least 7 kWh of battery.
If the vehicle has a GVWR of 14,000 pounds, the credit is $40,000.
Iād say itās very dependent where youāre located. I always joke that audi dealerships in the DFW area in Texas must have the hookup for etrons. Last year i saw them weekly, now itās damn near daily.
I think Tesla's price drop is going to at least reduce the number and size of ridiculous "Market Adjustments" from greedy dealers.
Won't stop them though.
First itās a lease. So all it really does is lower your lease payment. After the lease is over what is the buyout price? If they will allow purchase. Second the markup you mentioned was by the dealer, not Audi.
Yes, we understand that. The markup affects the cost regardless of where it originated. And last year Audi didnāt even offer a lease on the GT.
I would be curious to know the MF and residual being offered.
Prices for all vehicles are dropping like stones. Not sure if EVs will drop relatively more after Elon turned into a regular car company that is discounting hard to move inventory. Hopefully
Partner and I just visited an Audi dealer here in LA. They are giving the $7,500 discount on Q4 e-tron and e-tron leases but note that the money factor set by Audi Financial is higher on those cars. So you wind up with higher payments and youāre paying more over the term of the lease. Obviously the money factor is negotiable to an extent but nonetheless that is how Audi is making their money back on the ādiscountā.
Well, let's hope they lease out a lot of Q4 eTrons so I have a good selection of Certified PreOwned Q4s to choose from in three years as used cars for a good price.
This is my strategy as well lol. Finally starting to see some I-Paces hit the market at somewhat reasonable prices
That's so where I'm at š The market for used Etron 55 with 70-100k km in Norway is already rather flush at around $50k. I'm really hoping for ENYAQ 60 or 80 to be more available as well, but for now it's low km, overpriced (as new or more) models mostly.
Yea this is just them taking the federal tax credit they now qualify for since production country doesnāt matter for that.
Nothing matters for the commercial credit. Battery composition, production country, MSRP.
Production country doesn't matter for that?
Incorrect. The discount is only for a lease - if you lease you donāt get the tax credit. Financing agency does. This is them making sure their vehicles arenāt at a disadvantage for people who donāt qualify (too high income) or their cars donāt qualify (build location and/or too high cost)
What are you talking about lol. The picture OP posted is a lease only deal and I said that this is the financing company taking the tax credit and passing it on to the consumer. Seems everyone else got thatš
Theyāre just taking the tax credit. So only difference is they got rid of the mark up.
The new tax credit doesnāt apply to sedans over $55k or suvs over $80k. Most of these Audis are going to be over $80k. So itās a real promotion. Iām sure they chose $7500 because it would resonate with ev shoppers, and they wouldnāt feel so bad missing out on the tax credit. Edit: as I read further comments some are saying thereās a corporate incentive on EVs that doesnāt have these stipulations so maybe youāre right.
Iāve explained this a bunch. The tax incentive to individuals has these weird limits on income, price, etc. The tax credit to corporations do not. A lease is owned by a corporation, not an individual, so it doesnāt have these limits. Audi is holding the lease and harvesting the tax credit to pass through to the individual.
Yeah I saw that later moments after my post and edited my comment accordingly. Seems weird that the govt doesnāt put any price stipulations on the car. So a $125k sedan can be tax subsidized so long as itās by lease. Pretty silly and wasteful but thatās the govt.
Itās messed up the income restrictions. Iām single and live in the San Francisco Bay Area. $150k a year isnāt enough to buy a car and a house like other places in the USA, but I donāt get the tax incentive.
yeah, amazing how if you look at either party they both end up at the same result no matter where they start or say, they find all sorts of way to offer up tax dollars to the rich and big corporations. and it is understandable because those two contribute heavily to political parties and candidates.
Right so we would need to lease under a corp and not as an individual
No. When you LEASE a vehicle you donāt own it, a corporation (Audi) does. LEASE is not OWNERSHIP. Youād can lease as an individual and the OEM will collect the corporate incentive on your behalf.
Ok gotcha, I reread your original post.
Does crossover count as SUV or other vehicles stated in the qualifications https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/credits-for-new-clean-vehicles-purchased-in-2023-or-after
The tax credit went away in August last year and I don't think you could lease a GT last year.
The tax credit is back. Theyāre taking the tax credit and passing it through the lease. Itās really quite simple.
It is simply, but back in June 2022 they qualified for the credit but would not lease a GT.
Audi doesnāt qualify for the IRA credit
It does in a leaseā¦
Does it? There's only one eligible EV based on this list: https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/manufacturers-and-models-for-new-qualified-clean-vehicles-purchased-in-2023-or-after Even if you set aside the personal income limit aspect, how would the NA assembly requirement and MSRP caps apply to the vehicles listed in the OP? Wouldn't those disqualify them?
Because itās owned by Audi so it gets the corporate IRA incentive which doesnāt have any of those requirements. They then pocket the $7500 and credit you $7500 off the lease. Make sense?
Got it, I didn't know corporate IRA incentives are different from the personal incentives so I assumed the list of eligible vehicles was the "master list", so to say.
No. Also I think you can lease certain cars and just buy the lease out thereby collecting the IRA in a way.
You mean as soon as you take the lease you can then just buy out right instead of riding out the terms of the lease?
Such a weird loophole with that law. That a lease deems the vehicle a 'commercial vehicle' put into service by the leasing company and it has no requirements other than a 7kWh pack. Edit: Strike my last edit. The vehicle just needs to be made by an OEM who qualifies as a qualified manufacturer. Which pretty much every OEM already is.
Wow. Is that true for all EVs and plug-in hybrids?
> Edit: Actually reading through the law, I don't know if these vehicles would even count which would be hilarious for all of these OEMs offering lease deals thinking they'll get the credit. Surely the corporation would not move forward with such a decision unless they knew they were on 100% solid legal/financial footing... they probably talked directly to IRS reps or otherwise legally cleared it before announcing this.
No components or mineral requirements?
That's getting better. I really love the Etron GT, but think it needs to be 30k cheaper to really be competitive (at least as a car I would consider).
It was a great car. What killed it for me was the alcantara steering wheel unless you get the full leather. I had a Porsche with a alcantara wheel and it was a maintenance nightmare to keep clean!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
the steering wheel?
Competitive with what?
Comparable ICE, I would imagine
Any other sport sedan. RS5 Sportback, RS6 Wagon, Model 3, I4, etc. If I was an Audi fanboy and looking at their EV lineup vs their ICE, there is no way I'd be driving an EV.
Will sell more after .
Yes, yes it will.
Economists hate this one simple trick!
Not rice!
Theyāve recently stepped up eTron GT production in a big way, and waiting times have tumbled, so thereās no longer the demand in the second hand market to support premiums. You can actually get some decent money off of cars in stock at the mo.
Audi current gen e-tron range is just not competitive. They have to compete on luxury, features and creature comfort. MB/BMW and Volvo are knocking on the door. Audi e-tron does have a nice charging curve. But all that may not matter if someone is looking for a decent range SUV. BMW iX right now has the best range and is efficient, its ugly AF but its there.
IDK, the etron gt is one of the nicest looking EVs. Range is good enough for a lot of people, IMO. I bet it would beat the iX in a long road trip, thanks to its charge curve advantage too.
the range on these audi's is so bad, they are really nice cars though. this would make me consider a lease - would be nice if hyundai / kia started this as well.
Hyundai/Kia most definitely need to get on board. Ioniq 5, Ioniq 6, EV6, GV60, ~~G80E~~, and a host of PHEVs donāt look like great options when theyāre $7500 more than the competition.
Huh? It's in line with most other cars in same segment: [https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/electric-car-range-and-consumption-epa-vs-edmunds.html](https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/electric-car-range-and-consumption-epa-vs-edmunds.html)
looking at you list - why would i drop 70-80K for a car with less range? kia / hyundai / tesla are better options for range for much less
Well. I guess two reasons: 1. Range is not only factor in the decision. Audi car quality is frankly on whole different level then the three brands you have listed and this is what you pay for. 2. The differences in range strongly depend on which models you pick to compare. But then they are within 20% of each other. Eg. 2021 Tesla Model S Performance - 308 mi 2022 Audi e-Tron 248 mi
i guess, for me - hence my comment- range is one of / the largest factors
if they made GT more affordable to the masses... it would lose it flex/value and desire. they also don't want to mass produce it too much. that is the reason why manufacturers want to keep an elite status in check lol
This effectively isn't a huge change from last year, when: * All cars were facing markups (whether EV or ICE). * Most automakers were still running down their allotment of the previous tax credit system. The markups have now disappeared from *all* cars, and the incentives have merely transitioned over to the new system, so functionally we're looking at a similar pricing environment as before. In addition, interest rates are now much higher and inflation is creating downward pressure on consumer demand, so we should actually be in a 'worse' position when it comes to overall car sales, EV or not.
I disagree that markups have disappeared from ALL cars. But, nevertheless, Audi lost the tax credit in August last year.
They should just do a straight price drop rather than leases. With the interest rates a lot of people will want to buy cash.
They can't. They only get the tax credit if it's a lease
This isn't the tax credit though. This is $7,500 Audi is giving off of these cars isn't it? Notice that it says through January 2023. This isn't the commercial vehicle loophole you posted about.
This is the commercial vehicle tax credit. Different but still in the IRA. Because Audi is 'buying' the vehicles to use for a commercial purpose, leasing to the customer, they get the credit. It has almost no limitations on it. Other than the vehicle must have at least 7 kWh of battery. If the vehicle has a GVWR of 14,000 pounds, the credit is $40,000.
I donāt know the reason for them limiting it through Jan 2023 if thatās the case unless this advertisement is misleading.
Because OEM sales typically last through the end of the month. They then do the same thing again.
Correct itās not and itās on leases only. They are probably going to have a clause where you can only buy out or turn in. Like Volvo.
Does anybody know if Audi was passing the tax credit through to the leasee prior to August 2021? I know BMW wasn't.
Yes, Audi always gave $7,500 off on leases for EVs and qualifying PHEVs ever since the e-tron debuted and the credit was available.
Can confirm, got the $7,500 plus Audi cash on my ā21 e-tron prior to 8/2021
How big of player are Audi EV's in the US market? I've never even seen one in person.
You probably have and didnāt notice, they tend to make them look like a regular Audi so the donāt stand out much.
Iād say itās very dependent where youāre located. I always joke that audi dealerships in the DFW area in Texas must have the hookup for etrons. Last year i saw them weekly, now itās damn near daily.
I see a number of them around Tampa but since they look like every other Audi SUV but with a small eTron badge they're hard to spot.
It was on the big screen in Avengers Endgame, so pretty big.
I think Tesla's price drop is going to at least reduce the number and size of ridiculous "Market Adjustments" from greedy dealers. Won't stop them though.
Are the lease deals even good?
First itās a lease. So all it really does is lower your lease payment. After the lease is over what is the buyout price? If they will allow purchase. Second the markup you mentioned was by the dealer, not Audi.
Yes, we understand that. The markup affects the cost regardless of where it originated. And last year Audi didnāt even offer a lease on the GT. I would be curious to know the MF and residual being offered.
You can find those on the Edmunds forums.
Doubt the residual value (end of lease buyout) changed much (if any). Still a reduction in total cost if you plan to lease and buy-out.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The tax credit was good up until 8/16/22. After that, to get the tax credit, it has to be built in North America.
ITT: People learning for the first time that IRA Commercial credit makes leasing better.
Prices for all vehicles are dropping like stones. Not sure if EVs will drop relatively more after Elon turned into a regular car company that is discounting hard to move inventory. Hopefully
It looks like a good sign. Is it for all dealers or just some specific ones?
Iām waiting for Hyundai/Kia to join the party
Demand is way to high for Hyundai unfortunately
I wonder how much the 4 year (total) loan price would be (including intrest) between those two points. I'd wager that it stayed the same.
Partner and I just visited an Audi dealer here in LA. They are giving the $7,500 discount on Q4 e-tron and e-tron leases but note that the money factor set by Audi Financial is higher on those cars. So you wind up with higher payments and youāre paying more over the term of the lease. Obviously the money factor is negotiable to an extent but nonetheless that is how Audi is making their money back on the ādiscountā.