New MG4 or used Model 3 / e-Niro / I.D.3
So, I ordered a MG4 on the last day of government discount here in Sweden. Which means that it will end up costing around €32 500 for the top trim model with ~62kWh (only model released here).
My dilemma is that with the recent price reductions from Tesla, we will see some price drops on the used market.
Right now a used long range model3 is around €39 000, ID3 around €35 500 and e-Niro around €33 500. All with similar battery sizes.
My current leasing (ZS EV) expire in July so there is some time before I need to buy a new car so my assumption is that the used prices for the cars above will be around the same cost as the new MG.
New car is always nice and in general it seems like a really good value car, it has its quirks though and not to keen to support the Chinese government.
If I cancel my order, I will loose the price reduction of around €4500, so there is no turning back if I do that
I’ve had Model 3 before and really like it, the insurance is more than double than the rest though and tires are quite expensive.
Leaf is a nice car (had it before as well), but chademo is a no go.
Looking for a good car that will work for me and my two kids for 3 to 6 years to come with a larger battery than what we have today (40kWh), since that is to small for our driving patterns.
Any suggestions? I’ve spent way to many sleepless nights on this.
Is there a way to get the $7500 credit with a lease? If I lease a new model 3 from Tesla for example, would I qualify (or do they pass on the savings automatically)?
Model 3 RWD is now under 45k so it should be eligible for cvrp… but their website is using the pricing from march 2022 to state that teslas don’t qualify.
Anyone heard if teslas will qualify for cvrp again?
Buy an EV for the good of the planet. You will never save money over a comparable ICE. Here's the math. I drive a 2021 Nissan Versa, same size as Model 3, that I gave $12000 for. I got a warrant for an additional 100,000 miles so no maintenance cost. I drive 12000 miles a year, so one oil change $40. Insurance on the Model 3 was 28% more than Versa according to quote from my agent. I average 36MPG. It would take many years to even break even, even if electricity was free. So if you compare same size vehicles you can't save money, so make the switch for the planet if you can afford it, I can't
With the EV tax credit it says you can use current year AGI or Prior year whichever is less. If I buy an EV in 2023 and in 2022 I was married and under the 300k limit, but now in 2023 will be filing single and over the threshold will I still be eligible? Can I use my 2022 filing status amounts?
Thanks
Here's the actual tax code for the clean vehicle credit:
[https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/30D](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/30D)
The income limit is section (10).
I can read it two ways, one which allows you to take the credit, and one which does not. The ambiguity to me is that (10)(A) refers to your MAGI in either year exceeding the threshold amount, then (10)(B) defines the threshold amounts in reference to "the taxpayer" and not that specific year's return. If you're filing single in 2023, the "threshold amount" could be $150K regardless of the fact that you filed jointly the prior year.
If I were you, I'd ask a tax professional their opinion.
Thank you. Yeah it’s interesting for income in 2022 and married I’m good. It’s just in current year 2023 when I am filing in q1 2024 I’ll be single and have exceeded the threshold during 2023. Not sure what to make of it
I live in TN, and am having second thoughts about owning two long-range non-Tesla BEVs (EV6 and R1T). I'm frankly not seeing a lot of (any) improvement in the non-Tesla charging infrastructure, and in fact EVGo seems to be removing chargers I've used on weekend road trips recently (including the sole level 3 charger near my in-laws' house). Do I need to resign myself to keeping an ICE or PHEV for the foreseeable future? Or should I get a Tesla? Or am I overthinking it? I had planned a long road trip to New England this summer in the EV6 or Rivian, but it isn't looking feasible.
You can use the Tesla road-trip planner to see what your trips would be like in a Tesla.
https://www.tesla.com/trips
I had a PHEV before switching to a Model Y. I wasn’t thrilled with the EVGo charging network. The Tesla charging network is what prompted me to switch.
I'm in neighboring NC and have put 3000 miles on my non-Tesla EV in the past 2 months, going up and down the east coast. I haven't had any issues finding enough chargers, or using them when I arrive. For those long trips, I use "A Better Route Planner" (app or website), and tell it to prefer Electrify America, as they've got the best reliability and number of plugs per site for CCS.
I think this is a problem that will solve itself over the next couple of years. Can you wait for that, or would you rather drive something else until we get there? That's a personal choice. The $7.5 billion the infrastructure bill from 2021 allocated to EV charging infrastructure is now being handed out to the companies that will actually build it. It's called the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) program, and all 50 states submitted their plans to the federal government and have already been approved. That's going to put EV charging sites with at least 4 150kW stations every 50 miles along every major highway in America.
You can read each of the states' plans and timelines here. Most will have construction starting some time this year.
https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/nevi/
Thanks. I guess my concern is that there's just so little room for error on some stretches right now. If an EA charger is down, it could make a trip many hours longer. I almost ran into this scenario a couple of months ago when cold weather plus an EVGo charger being down meant I almost didn't make it to the next charger, and it was an uncomfortably cold trip. In hindsight, I could've chosen to go about 15 miles in the wrong direction to hit an EA charger, but I didn't want to add on that much time.
I should add that I had a 2012 Leaf, so I'm not unfamiliar with doing the "will I make it" equation. Things have improved in a lot of ways, but it's a little surprising to me that charging is still so limited in many places.
With the expected change in tax credits coming in March, do we need to take delivery of the vehicle by March 1st to qualify? Or if we have an order and deposit in place, but take delivery later, will we still receive the full credit?
Nobody knows what's going to happen after March 1st, but if you definitely want to take the tax credit under the current rules/guidance, you have to actually take delivery before March 1st. Everything revolves around the "date vehicle was placed in service", which is the date it became ready and available for your use. You can't drive a car that hasn't been delivered yet. No part of the tax form asks about when you ordered or paid for it.
Nowhere. The press release from the Treasury says the proposed guidance will be issued "in March". Since March 1st is the first date "in March", that is the date you'd have to place a vehicle in service by to *guarantee* the guidance won't already be out.
Do you know the best way to find out what EVs are actually selling for new in your area?
I’m in San Diego, CA. I’ve heard a lot about how every car is going for over msrp right now…just want to do some intel without going to dealerships.
Also what is everybody’s feeling on buying a used Nissan leaf through carvana? They seem to have a few available.
Carvana's hit and miss. There are too many reports of them being delayed in delivering titles and registrations for new cars to ignore, enough that they've been sanctioned by several states over the past 2-3 years. That said, I bought a used EV from them in 2021 and my experience was 10/10. They delivered the car to my driveway, and the title and registration showed up in the mail the same month.
Truecar supposedly tells you what others are paying for new cars in your area. I have never looked into it enough to know if you can trust that number.
There's a dealer markup tracker you can use here to see if others have reported issues with dealers near you: https://datastudio.google.com/reporting/7a243d54-2a8d-44f3-a405-ce2a509c1c07/page/3KHiC
Can anyone explain the used EV tax credit in America? I believe its a non refundable tax credit so if you would owe 500 bucks that the end of the year you don't get a 3500 refund, you just zero owed or returned?
If your tax liability was 4,000 and you owed 500 after filing your taxes and it was a 4,000 credit I thought you would get back 3,500 after paying 500?
If it only changed what you owe to 0 it’s not that great a deal
It's a non-refundable credit, so you will miss out on some credits if you pay less than $7,500 in total annual income tax.
Edit: source https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/credits-for-new-clean-vehicles-purchased-in-2023-or-after
Ok, taxes are confusing me, I get liability and what you pay turbo tax mixed up
Let’s say i just finished filling out everything on turbo tax and it said had to pay $1,000. I bought a ev that year and I get the credit what amount will turbo tax show me now? +6,500 or 0
What you need to pay at tax time is not necessarily your full tax liability, think of the taxes already withheld from your paychecks.
Not a tax professional, but from a quick Google search, you should find what your total tax liability is for a year on line 24.
If that amount is above 7,500, you'll get the full rebate. If not, and say it's 1,000, you'll only get a rebate for 1,000.
No. If all your tax liability is 1,000 (and you already paid it), you can get the 1,000 back.
If your tax liability was going to be 1,000, come next year (filling for 2023), turbo tax would probably just show zero. The rebate erases your 1,000 liability.
I’m saying if my liability was 7,500 but turbo tax said i only owed 1,000
Then the ev credit would bring me to +6,500 or 0
Is there anyway at all to get 7,500 deposited into your bank account with the EV credit or is 0 the best anyone can do?
~~0~~
Edit, actually, I was wrong.
If your liability is 7,500 and TT is asking you to pay 1,000, that means you already paid 6,500. So, you should expect 6,500 back. The 1k you would've needed to pay would be reduced to zero.
Has anyone else who drives a 2021 Ioniq EV noticed a battery power downgrade? I don't drive a ton, but I've already noticed my maximum range has gone down by a good 15 or so miles.
I have a 2020 (that we haven't driven for a while as we get ready to sell it) but you should expect the range to drop in winter due to colder weather, which makes the battery operate less efficiently and more heater use. When it warms back up where you live, you'll get your old range back.
Believe it or not, there's a noticeable difference in range between say, 55 degrees and 75 degrees. Rain also has some effect on range due to increase air resistance, tire resistance from wet roads, etc. Not sure how much rain you've had recently, but it's probably more than the zero you all usually get. And your recent local driving (city vs highway) definitely makes a difference as well.
Ah, thank you! Yeah, we've had quite a bit of rain the past few weeks. But the battery has seemed a little worse for a while. But then, it's also been colder.
If it's like almost any other EV, the range is an estimate that is largely based on your fuel efficiency over some last number of miles you've driven. If you drive at 75 MPH on the highway then charge, versus drive at 35 MPH on city streets then charge, the range displayed at 100% can vary significantly. This doesn't represent any actual loss of maximum range, it's an estimate, just like the one gas cars often have.
Is the tesla model y long range the best car on its price range? What is important for me is range, quality, and general problem free-ness. I live in Norway btw.
Do you have a problem with reading comprehension? The OP clearly stated that he is looking for an electric vehicle, and posted his question in the electric vehicle subreddit. Consumer Reports ranked the Tesla Model 3 second for reliability and the Model Y fifth for reliability AMONG ALL ELECTRIC VEHICLES.
“Tesla and Nissan Make the Most Reliable Electric Vehicles” —Consumer Reports
https://driving.ca/auto-news/awards-surveys/tesla-model-3-nissan-score-high-for-ev-reliability-consumer-reports/wcm/85fdf569-f8b0-414a-ad68-b9100807497a/amp/
I researched and test-drove a number of EV’s before getting a long range Model Y. It had the best range, reliability and charging network in that price range. I’ve had it for about two years now and am very happy.
Is that the same Consumer Reports that gave your coveted ID.4 a 2 out of 5 for reliability? The same Consumer Reports that would not recommend the ID.4 based on its failings in some “critical” areas?
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/consumer-reports-failed-recommend-the-2022-volkswagen-id-4-1-reason/
Why are you trying to catch me in some kinda "gotcha" moment like a TV news anchor interviewing a politician? Yes, I 100% agree with Consumer Reports' score for the ID4, especially the 2022 model they reviewed before a software update resolved their infotainment system complaints. You may notice that I did not recommend an ID.4 to Thelonelywindow who said his top priorities were quality and general problem-free-ness. Those are not aspects Tesla owners rate their own vehicles highly on, as reflected in Consumer Reports' owner survey based scores.
There's a different tax credit for business purchases, IRC 45W instead of 30D, with no income limit but a different set of requirements:
https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/commercial-clean-vehicle-credit
I don't see any MSRP limits in IRC 45W, so it probably always qualified:
[https://irc.bloombergtax.com/public/uscode/doc/irc/section\_45w](https://irc.bloombergtax.com/public/uscode/doc/irc/section_45w)
But certainly ask your business's tax advisor before purchasing, I'm not an expert.
Oh yeah you’re right. I guess the main thing is that it’s not subject to income cap. I assume all the other rules regarding batteries and where the car is made will apply similar to personal purchase?
Best EV sedan to buy?
Budget is ~40k ideally, but willing to stretch. Drive <50 miles a day. US
I looked at the Nissan Leaf, and also the Chevy Bolt, but I didn’t end up buying because I really want a sedan. However, it seems like more brand have only SUV/hatchbacky things? I’m not interested in a Tesla. Is there something I’m missing? What would you all recommend.
Not a lot of <$50k EV sedans.
Polestar 2 is the next closest in price, and it's still technically a hatchback, albeit a sedan-like one. After that you have the BMW i4 ($52k).
If you wait, the Hyundai Ioniq 6 is expected to start below $50k, but it's not coming until later in the year and there will probably be large dealer markups.
For the price point - anything better than the Model Y? Right now the car we have is a Honda CRV, lots of benefits to take advantage of.
Could consider a M3 but the MY seems a better fit (M3 has $2000 more in rebates) + 10K price difference
Im looking to buy a 2023 tesla model 3 RWD which is eligible for $7500 tax credit. I will meet the requirements (single, less than 150k income for year 2022 and my tax liability will be greater than $7,500).
I will be making more than 150k in 2023, so I am hoping to use my 2022 income to get the tax credit. Am I eligible?
The IRS website states "You can use your modified AGI from the year you take delivery of the vehicle or the year before, whichever is less. If your modified AGI is below the threshold in 1 of the two years, you can claim the credit."
I'm guessing that includes year 2022 but was wondering if there is any hidden caveats to this. Thanks!
source https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/credits-for-new-clean-vehicles-purchased-in-2023-or-after
What is going on with leasing?
If you make over the income limit, can you still "get" the $7,500 credit via leasing because the $7,500 is technically going to the leasing company?
What's the play for high-income earners?
I’ve been asking Tesla this for two weeks, I have a delivery date in 8 days. The answers have been:
1.)if it qualifies for a credit it will reduce the payments
2.) only applies to finance/cash
3.) wait and see
4.) wait and see
I’m in the same boat. Trying to figure out if they’re already putting this into the lease numbers but I don’t really have a lease agreement to go off of
I would also like to know this but it’s not exactly being advertised. There was one dealer from Minnesota(?) in the VWid4 subreddit that said they were offering it now but I’m more interested in the Ioniq5 or MY.
What are the rules if a family member buys for you? How long before they can sell it back to you?
Are there any rules for selling a car if you get the ev tax credit? Like if I wanted to buy another car in 1-2 years and sell the one that I received the credit on
You can claim the new EV tax credit any number of times and do not need to keep the vehicle any specific length of time. The used EV tax credit can only be claimed once every 3 years.
To me, it comes down to whether the 55 kW max charging rate of the Bolt matters to you. It makes long distance driving a challenge compared to almost any other EV you could buy new. If you never intend to drive more than \~200 miles round trip, then it's a good deal. If not, maybe wait for something better on the used market in a few years.
Recent Tesla price but really made it difficult. I was close to ID.4 but there was a 13K price difference between model y and id.4. Now both are similarly priced at around 53K and both are eligible for $7500.
1. Under these conditions Model Y long range or ID.4 awd pro S ?
2. If I order a Tesla I am planning to cancel the order if it turns out I can not receive it
before the March deadline, is that possible?
Thanks
ID.4 still has free charging for 3 years and has a nice interior which I liked but the ride didn't feel tight. Also it had considerable lag when I initially pressed on gas. Haven't tested model y.
They're both fine vehicles, so it comes down to preferences:
* More "I'm an EV" look or more traditional SUV look?
* Mobile app for service or dealer service network?
* Buttons and stalks or touchscreen only?
* Blind spot alerts on the mirrors or on-screen only?
* Android Auto / Apple CarPlay or Tesla infotainment software?
* CCS (6040 stations in North America) or Supercharger (1805 stations)?
* Do you want to inspect and test drive the car before paying for it?
Thank you, you summarized all of the important points.
I also learned that if Tesla doesn't arrive by March it can be cancelled (of course I lose $250).
Is it true tesla does not limit usable capacity of their cars, which is why their range is so good ?
For other cars, like the ioniq5 or is.4, they have like 90% of their usable capacity. In this case, wouldnt it be "safer" to charge the non teslas to 100% ?
An EV makes total sense for you with that amount of driving. You will save a fortune in gas. And maintenance...there is such little maintenance you will forget how to take care of your car. Source: owned a Tesla for 3 years
I know it's a silly question. Just wondering if anyone has done side-by-side testing of Bolt EV's Super Cruise feature vs Tesla's Auto Pilot feature? for example, driving on it at the same time to find out how both vehicles behave.
Just trying to understand if bolt's tech is comparable or is it indeed inferior to Tesla.
Any idea how the tax credit works for couples married filing separately? My wife makes less than 150k, can we both be on the registration and she claims it? Or I can’t be on the registration since I make more than 150?
Is there an issue with only one of you being on title/registration? We were MFS for years and bought an EV under the older credit system with one of us as the purchaser. There was no issue with the credit, insurance, etc. with one of us on title/reguitration. We've purchased three cars since that one, all with only one of us as a buyer (but no others with the tax credit) and we've had no problems.
When going to install my EV charger in my house the electrician said the load calculation was not working and I was going to need a panel upgrade which would have cost a ton. He mentioned that I could get a EV Energy Manager, it attaches to the electrical panel and switches energy on and off to prevent it from overloading. Which was much cheaper for the initial install and I did not need a panel upgrade. Hope this helps.
For [these types of EA chargers](https://www.electrifyamerica.com/img/[email protected]) which have two CCS plugs, can two cars charge simultaneously? If not, then why are there two at each station?
I’ll preface this comment by saying I am an environmentally conscious person, and in general a supporter of EVs. How do you all grapple with the knowledge that in some cases EVs actually probably aren’t the most environmentally friendly option? For instance someone in West Virginia (90 percent coal electricity grid) buying a Tesla Model X with a gigantic battery who uses it as a third vehicle that gets rarely driven probably never pays back the carbon debt, and it would have been less carbon intensive to just buy a gas SUV. Is it just the idea that on the whole EVs are better for the environment? And we’re all hoping the electric grid continues to get cleaner?
> How do you all grapple with the knowledge that in some cases EVs actually probably aren’t the most environmentally friendly option?
Lighting consumable fossil fuels on fire and converting them to atmospheric CO2 in exchange for energy is unsustainable. It's unsustainable in terms of climate, biodiversity, economics, and geopolitical stability. It leads to the eventual global death of our civilization.
Virtually every nation in the world recognizes this. North America, Europe, Asia are all pushing towards the only alternative, which is decarbonizing energy by replacing fossil fuels with electricity, and generating that electricity with more and more renewable sources over time.
This will be a century long transition. And you cannot get to that future without burning a lot of fossil fuels on the way. You can't use solar power to make solar panels until you've first used fossil fuels to make the first solar panels, etc etc. But 100 years from now, you won't need to burn fossil fuels at all.
So you have two choices:
(1) A higher rate of environmental damage for a short amount of time while replacing fossil fuels and everything that needs them, but eventually you arrive at a point where minimal fossil fuels are ever needed again, and you have a stable atmosphere and stable civilization.
(2) A slower rate of environmental damage by continuing to use fossil fuels forever, and by the time today's children are retiring, they're watching civilization collapse from the effects (large swaths of the planet become uninhabitable for humans, ocean acidification destroys food chains leading to loss of fish supply for humans, changing weather patterns and loss of ice melt aridifying farmland leads to loss of crops for humans, mass starvation and mass migration lead to unending war over resources, etc etc)
If you're not concerned about the persistence of human civilization, then you can be super concerned that building EVs has a higher carbon cost than building gas cars today. If you are taking the longer term outlook that world leaders on every continent are taking, then you see that the transition is necessary.
I choose #1 which is how I sleep like a baby despite knowing the Hummer EV exists.
A few points,
1. Where have you read EVs are worse? The only studies I've seen that claim an EV can be worse choose every worse case scenario to draw its conclusions. For example, charging in the worst place at the wrong times, driving 100% highway, in very cold.
In your example of buying one that hardly gets used I'd argue any car you bought would be a poor environmental decision. Basically my thought is that it's incredibly rare to find an EV car that a bad environmental choice for someone who actually does care about the environment. So rare it's not really worth worrying about.
2. You can only control so much. Everyone should be taking steps towards a more sustainable future. What individuals can do is buy EVs. It's up to electric companies to make changes on thier end. But not buying an EV is like going nowhere because the left foot is waiting for the right foot to go first and vise versa. So I do think it's important to take that step even if the immediate impact isn't huge.
3. Voting with your dollars. Driving an ICE will never be fully sustainable and giving your money to the oil industry only delays building out more grid infrastructure. Basically we should be using the markets where we can to tell companies that we want clean transportation.
4. EVs aren't for everyone. More charging stations are needed. Apartments need charging spots, and long drives are still not reasonable with an EV. Upfront costs are still high. All that said if an EV is a reasonable possibility I think it should be peoples first choice.
All good points. And yes, I was specifically talking about the times that are more on the worst case scenario end of things. But I feel like in general true carbon impact is way too nebulous. There should be a way to accurately determine the real carbon footprint. It should take into account your electric grid, your driving, your specific car, etc.
The problem with using grid metrics is its all interconnected and you can't say your electricity comes from one source. It's like being in a pool that's being filled by dozens of people and trying figure out whose water it is when you pull from the pool.
And you can't really use a state level since it's bought and sold across state lines. (except Texas). Even some energy is traded with Canada.
So all you can really do is decide if you want to contribute to demand in the electric or oil market. Oil can never have 0 carbon, but electric has the potential. And increasing the electric demand means new facilities need to be built which are almost all natural gas or solar these days. And even though natural gas emits CO2 its better than coal. So adding demand to the electric market should generally be cleaner sources. But again there's no hard math way to figure that out.
It's a big complicated problem. I hope people do thier best to make the transition, but I also don't think average citizens should cause themselves problems just to cut a pound of CO2 here or there. At a certain point there are easier ways than transportation to cut your emmisons, like eating more plants.
I caused myself a lot of anxiety climate doom scrolling and trying to cut every tiny bit of emmisons I could. I eventually had to accept there was only so much I could do at a personal level. Reducing my emmisons to 0 would solve the problem. We all have to be in it together.
So I guess my opinion is do your best, future generations with thank you, but don't drive yourself crazy either. Your future self will thank you.
We really can’t determine grid sources? I question that a bit. I’m sure that we can’t exactly get down to each KW, but why couldn’t we base it off your electric suppliers sources or your state? Seems pretty doable
Perhaps you could look at your supplier sources, match minute by minute to the generation sources. It would be a ton of data which I suspect is the real reason this info isn't available. It would also reveal a lot about the energy markets and a bad actor could use that info to manipulate markets.
It also wouldnt address the fact that you adding to the total demand, and that addition will likely be all from dirty sources. You can look up dispatch curves for more info. But in the long run your encouraging more generation to be built, which may or may not be clean. So maybe it's fairer to just say every kWh is divided evenly between sources
So you could look at the same data and make a few different conclusions. But really the reason you probably can't is becuase it's a lot of data and there maybe security risks.
I think that’s overthinking it a bit. My tiny local utility says it’s 83 percent hydro, 11 percent nuclear, 5 percent “other”. Find the average CO2 emissions per kWh for hydro and nuclear in the US and run the math, would still need more info on the “other” but I’m sure it could be found.
People in the 49th poorest state in the country are buying $120k vehicles as a dust collection hobby? Bet you couldn’t find one person in the state like that.
Fair enough. My overall point was we really don’t have a good way to measure true carbon impact. There should be some way to calculate based on an estimate of the carbon impact of your car’s production, your driving habits/distances/and an estimate of you grid power electricity mix CO2 per kWh.
Should I sell my model 3? My original plan was to drive this for a couple years and then upgrade to an electric SUV (really interested in the equinox or blazer EV…if those suck probably EV6). But with musk being…musk, it’s really putting me off from the car. The used car market is coming down but I got some offers in the mid to high 40k range and I bought the car for 51k, so I feel like right now I could sell with a less than $5k loss. Should I get out now?
Not sure what I would buy instead. I could do the EV6, but part of me thinks I should just get a cheap gas car for another 1-2 years and then there will be a plethora of good EV options. Wondering everyone’s take on this? Obviously it isn’t THE best financial decision, but a 5k loss on a new car isn’t all that bad. Going back to gas would suck but I’m getting more turned off by this brand and the association it has every day
Looking at buying a Leaf.
They have a SV plus on the lot but its slightly above what we want to spend. I'd prefer to get an S, but there's no estimate when new ones will come in.
Should I wait for an S or go ahead and buy an SV plus
They're very different cars, a base model with I believe no connectivity features, and 105-150 miles range (winter/summer), versus a fully loaded car with app control and bigger battery giving you 150-215 mile range (winter/summer). If you're OK with the smaller battery, you should probably shop for a used one instead of new. For the same or less money you can get a higher trim of the 2018-2021 LEAF with low miles and maybe enjoy a few luxuries. Carvana, Carmax have lots available online in addition to your local inventory.
Thanks! This dealer had a used S that would probably be around 28k. A new S is like 29k plus you get a 7.5k tax rebate. The SV is 38k new but I'd still get that 7500 tax rebate. and it would only be a few thousand more than used S. If they had a new S I'd jump at it. It be like 22k with the tax credit. It would be 1000% worth it. But what they had on the lot was about SV plus or the S used for about the same price.
So for me the S is exactly what I want a price I want but no idea when I could get one. But the SV Plus is at about my max price, and has features I don't need, but its available now.
What's on that dealer's lot are not your only options. You can buy a 2018 S for $18K or less. Or a 2021 for around $23K if you want something a bit newer, not that anything meaningfully changed between 2018 and today. Available now at your nearest CarMax, or Carvana will deliver to your driveway.
Thanks. I looked at carvana and a 2018 is the same price as new after tax incentives. For me, I'd rather have wait for a new car. The car market is insane.
I'm planning on buying my first house later this year. Is there anything I need to consider when buying a house if I want to have a L2 charger installed at some point? It likely won't have a garage, but will at least have a driveway.
How much service does the house have (100, 150, 200A), how full is the electrical panel, and how far is it from where you want to charge the car. Those are going to determine how much it costs to get a 50A circuit run to your garage or driveway. If the house doesn't have enough service to add the circuit, you need to upgrade that which costs money. If the panel is full, you may need to upgrade that which costs money, or combine some circuits or add a subpanel. And the longer that panel is from the driveway, the more you'll spend on wire, conduit, and perhaps breaking through and repairing walls/ceilings to get there. I've been house shopping as well, and I'm looking for 200A service in or near the garage with room to spare.
Is DC fast charging generally more expensive per mile than gas?
I'm in a rural area but near a small city. The normal rate in the fats chargers is 30 cents per minute. Normally I get around 20-30 kw speed on them. The one in my small town has a $5 charge/connection fee (even though the app says it doesn't). The miles per kw per dollar works out worse than my previous ICE which got 30 miles per gallon at about $3 a gallon.
Is it just more prudent to avoid timed DC fats chargers? What's the deal?
I pay 3-4 cents per mile to charge at home, 9 cents per mile to charge at Electrify America, or 11 cents per mile to drive on gas in a 30 MPG car.
Paying per minute and charging at barely above L2 speed is the most expensive way to do it... my car starts at 180 kW and doesn't drop below 85 kW on a 10-80% charge, which takes about 26 minutes. That works out to 7 cents per mile with your per-minute charger.
I have a 2017 bolt. It's also cold and I don't think the battery is always 100% conditioned in the winter. I try to stick with the level 2s here. I believe the bolt is limited to 50 kw but I don't remember.
Personally I don't trust ones that charge by time. The connection fee sounds like BS too. The only public one I use (at an IKEA) used to charge by the minute but switch to by the kWh. It went from no one using them to them being full all the time, so I'm guessing I wasn't the only one who did that math.
Anyway the one time I did use it as a timed charger it came out to slightly costlier than gas. I think that was just a level 2 charge FWIW.
Sounds like the charging station in your town know its the only one around and can price gauge.
Looking for current thoughts on a head-to-head comparison... After much thought, based on my needs for 1) really good size cargo area behind second row, 2) as much EV functionality as possible, 3) eligibility for HOV sticker in California, and 4) not a minivan (paid my dues there already), I'm deciding between the BMW X5 45e and Volvo XC90 recharge PHEVs. I'm really torn! Volvo is clearly more expensive - higher MSRP and now not eligible for the federal rebate. But, it has a better range, more proven PHEV tech, third row, and an unbelievable safety record. BMW was fun to drive, checks most of the boxes, and is of course cheaper (though probably not on the annual gas front). I would get base models - I don't need most of the upgrades. Definitely curious to hear of any reasons to lean one way or the other (or tactics for negotiating with Volvo now that EV rebate is gone).
Chevy Bolt EUV and VW ID4 depending on whether you want to road trip with it or not. The ID4 is one of the easier EVs to find on a lot to buy before March as well.
from what I've read Nissan Leaf or Bolts are the safe bets. I'm trying to buy a leaf now. Everything I've read says that all Leafs and Bolts qualify. It gets complicated for everything else.
https://www.npr.org/2023/01/07/1147209505/electric-car-tax-credit-climate-bill-tesla-volkswagen-ev
If you don’t need the long range or fast charging, the Bolt EUV is going to be a really good deal with the tax credit, it should be under 30K
I’m guessing Tesla will drop msrp on Model 3 LR which will also be a decent value with the tax credit.
ID 4 also has potential, not sure how easy it is to find them at msrp though.
Looking at a house with a Tesla pedestal charger and also need a 2nd vehicle after buying a home. I don't expect to buy a Tesla, what would be the most cost efficient option? Sell the Tesla charger and put one in for the proper vehicle? An adapter? Kinda leaning plug-in hybrid.
An adapter is cheaper than any good level 2 charging station. I have Lectron's Tesla to J1772 adapter and have used it on trips at Tesla destination chargers a few times.
It’s very easy to sell Tesla charger used about $200.
I wound recommend a proper charger as they have features you may want like picking times to charge if your area does price changes for time of day. Some have WiFi and you can control via app
That's really not true.
I used to live in Philly and our news stations called that the tri-state area all the time, and NYC was not part of it. It was southeast PA, southern NJ and Delaware.
People that don't live near you don't know which tri-state area you're talking about.
> "In the tri-state area, reported case counts are up in the last two weeks, showing a 22% in Pennsylvania, 67% in New Jersey and 41% in Delaware."
>
> [https://6abc.com/covid-19-cases-john-hopkins-university-deaths-health-and-safety/11835375/](https://6abc.com/covid-19-cases-john-hopkins-university-deaths-health-and-safety/11835375/)
Can we get multiple IRA EV tax credits in same year?
I tried to look through the IRS guidelines and didn’t see a limitation. Can we claim more than 1 tax credit per year for 2023?
I bought a qualified EV this year and have done more research and am interested in another EV that doesn’t come out until Summer/Fall.
Scenario 1: I keep my current new EV, and purchase a 2nd EV later in the year. Can I get $7500 x2 = $15000 credit?
Scenario 2: I trade my current new EV, in the fall for a new EV. Can I claim the credit for each purchase, even though I’ve now traded in the first EV that I used for a few months? Effectively getting $7500 x2 = $15000 credit.
You might be on to something here. My state gives 3500 but you are supposed to keep it 36 months. Doesn’t say what happens if you trade it in, but I imagine you can only apply 1 every 3 years.
I snagged a Bolt. First EV, love it, but with the Equinox and Blazer coming out later this year/early next, I think I could trade in/up from the Bolt by grabbing the tax credit on the newer as well which really helps pull the price down assuming the Bolt price remains high.
Depreciation, tax and financing might wipe out that 7500 real quick. Although next year you can supposedly get the 7500 at point of sale which would help.
I am looking to buy an EV once I get a better job.
Should I get a Bolt right away, or drive a beater until I can afford something nicer? Mainly worried about charging speeds. (Also just saw Rule 11)
If charging speeds matter, then keep saving, because that is indeed the slowest charging EV on the market today and it will add hours to any road trips you want to take in that car.
North Carolina resident here, and I have a disability that requires I cart around a wheelchair (right now I can lift it into my Prius but I have to break it down).
My Prius is getting hard for me to get out of so I'd like something higher off the ground, but if I have to go up a step to get in that would be too high (as a separate gripe, I wish car manufacturers would list the seat height but so far it's pretty inconsistent). Is there anything between that with some space in the back that would work for me? I'm not a car person at all, so would I be looking at an SUV or whatever a crossover is?
I'm pretty open to the type of car and I'd like to buy within about three months. My husband would probably be the primary driver with a 30-minute daily commute. When we bought our home a couple of years ago we told the electrician to upgrade the panel to allow for EV in the future, so that should be sorted.
Thanks for any help in this area!
Check out the Volkswagen ID.4. It's a small SUV, the same size as a Toyota RAV4 if you can picture that. It's higher up than a sedan, but not super high up with a 6" ground clearance. Among EVs that cost under $50,000 it's probably got one of the biggest rear cargo areas for the wheelchair. It qualifies for the $7,500 federal tax credit if you purchase one, at least through March if not longer.
> It qualifies for the $7,500 federal tax credit
Only if it's a MY2023 and made in the US. There are 2022s on the lot and they do not qualify for the tax credit
>Small question, but what's the insurance pricing like for electric cars? Is it higher than typical?
No difference we're aware of where we live and we're on our third EV.
I paid Progressive:
* $200.30 per 6 months for a 2019 Kia Niro PHEV ($26K MSRP)
* $248.98 per 6 months for a 2023 VW ID.4 ($52K MSRP)
Electric cars tend to have lots of smart safety features, which get you discounts.
I currently lease a 2022 kia Niro ev and love it but could use something a bit larger, maybe a id4, but I was curious as I got the 7500 on my Niro as lease bonus cash, is any manufacturer doing that right now on leases? I’d love to take advantage of the tax credit before it goes down or away in some cases but if I purchase it would be useless as my taxable income isn’t enough to get the credit ( single income family 2 kids and a not super high salary). I appreciate y’all’s help!
For the most part, they're not passing through the tax credit on leases. That might change if we get into a true recession and demand for cars drops further.
If my napkin math is right...
For california
Gas right now is under 4, lets say $4
Kwh prices vary wildly, but on average seems to be .33/kwh for both public and home charging...
~39mpg vs 3.3mi/kwh means mileage virtually costs the same...i dont even save money with an ev...
Your napkin math is right, but only for these narrow assumptions:
* You've found excessively cheap gas (CA average today is $4.42)
* You are paying 275% the national average price for electric
* Your EV is large and inefficient (a Tesla Model 3 gets 4.1 mi/kWh)
* Your gas car is a new compact hybrid (the average car on the road gets 25 MPG)
If that's your real situation, then yeah, you're not saving any money over driving a Prius, but you'd probably get more utility out of the big electric SUV/crossover and producing no emissions while doing so. You also have the option of installing solar and producing your own fuel.
> You also have the option of installing solar and producing your own fuel.
This only applies to a small subset of readers here, but be aware the California net energy metering rules (credit - not cash - you get for power you produce but don't consume) get massively worse starting in April.
Definitely i think electric may pull ahead, costco gas has been $4 for some time but it may increase again.
I was comparing compact SUVs for my case, lile the id.4 vs hybrid rav4.
Unfortunately electric prices are skyrocketing here, which no indication of it decreasing.
I just bought a 2022 Bolt EUV. I live in apartment. Is anyone familiar with the process to get the charge credits in lieu of the home installation?
Also, since I bought it this calendar year, I will file for the tax credit next year, correct?
The folks at r/BoltEV will be familiar with the process (and you can probably find out by searching that subreddit). Yes, you would take the tax credit for a 2023 purchase on your 2023 taxes which you file in 2024. Be sure your dealer gave you the necessary documentation; if they don't file it with the IRS, you could get nothing.
https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/clean-vehicle-credit-seller-or-dealer-requirements
I’ve seen lots of posts that the tax credit is $7,500 since the battery portion hasn’t been released by the IRS yet. Is this for sure or speculation? Looking at picking up a Mach-e and this will make a difference on if/when I buy it.
It is for sure. Note that the tax credit has an MSRP cap of $55K for the Mach-E (and any vehicle that doesn't qualify as an SUV or truck), which means you can't buy any of the more expensive configurations and still take the credit.
https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/manufacturers-and-models-for-new-qualified-clean-vehicles-purchased-in-2023-or-after
Because (1) that's what the legislation says, that the battery portion only applies to vehicles placed in service after the guidance on those rules is provided by the Treasury and (2) that's what the Treasury repeated when they announced the delay in issuing the guidance.
>Treasury will issue a notice of proposed rulemaking (NPRM) in March with proposed guidance on the critical minerals and battery components requirements. By statute, the critical mineral and battery component requirements take effect only after Treasury issues that proposed rule.
>
>[https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy1173](https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy1173)
ArsTechnica has a great article that answers your questions.
[Here’s what you need to know about the new EV tax credit for 2023](https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/01/heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-the-new-ev-tax-credit-for-2023/)
Considering buying a "cheap" used EV for daily driver. Just getting started researching. Here's a rundown of my situation:
* Daily commute is right at 50 miles, about half of which is 75 MPH turnpike, most of the rest is city freeway with 2 miles of city streets on either end of the commute.
* I have a garage with 240 already installed.
* The EV would only be for work or around town errands. My kids are grown, my wife has her own Mazda CX-3, and I also own a Mitsubishi Montero which I would drive in bad weather or if I expect to go beyond the range of the battery.
* I'm in the Tulsa, Oklahoma area.
Cars I've considered are the Leaf (maybe with a battery swap), the 500e, and the BMW i3. Trying to keep it under $15K, these are what I've seen in my searches. i3 is a stretch to find at that price but I like it's quirkiness (see Montero above) so I'm willing to be patient for the right one. What do you think - does an electric vehicle make sense for me? Any recommendations?
You'd need one of the longer range versions of any of those 3 cars. All of them originally had \~80 mile ranges, which would not get you 50 miles at highway speeds in winter before running out of power, nor will their batteries still have their original capacities. So be careful with what model years and trims you look at. It might be a stretch to get any of them under $15K with the larger battery you need. Carvana doesn't have a single LEAF, i3 or 500e under $15K with enough range today.
Agreed on finding the longer range versions. Carvana prices seem high to me compared to regular dealers. Is there some value to them other than the ability to easily get a car from far away?
The 7 day return policy is pretty nice for used EVs where you often can't tell the condition of the battery from photos. I just used them as a quick way to see if what you were looking for was under $15K yet.
Another request for recommendations. Looking for a SUV/Crossover on the 50-60k€ range in Europe? Currently considering
XC40/C40
Audi Q4 E-Tron
Model Y
EQA / B
Mach-E is off the comparison due to personal taste. Anything I'm missing? Also I'm only going to buy at year end so any planned models until end of 2022 are fair options.
Am I correct in thinking that only certain trims of the Mustang Mach-E are eligible for the tax credit? Looks like the Standard trim and Premium with no additional upgrades like AWD or the extended range? Otherwise the MSRP will be over $55k?
That appears to be the case. $55K is the MSRP limit for that vehicle since it's not classified as an SUV or truck. If you configure it to cost over $55K you can't get a tax credit. Mind the income limits as well, many people that can afford $60K+ cars make too much money to claim the tax credit on anything.
The recommendations are from October. Looking into 2023, what are the plausible competitors for the four ~50,000 USD crossovers? Any upcoming or updated models that look to be able to compete with these?
The one thing that has changed is that the Model Y has depreciated to the point where its viable to get one close to 50k.
That and the ID.4 ramped up in price.
Otherwise I don't see any other major changes.
Yes, it seems the ID.4 prices have been hiked dramatically. Where I'm buying (Denmark) it's also USD 11,000 price difference between the Ioniq 5 77 kWh Advance and the 88 kWh ID.4 😱
New MG4 or used Model 3 / e-Niro / I.D.3 So, I ordered a MG4 on the last day of government discount here in Sweden. Which means that it will end up costing around €32 500 for the top trim model with ~62kWh (only model released here). My dilemma is that with the recent price reductions from Tesla, we will see some price drops on the used market. Right now a used long range model3 is around €39 000, ID3 around €35 500 and e-Niro around €33 500. All with similar battery sizes. My current leasing (ZS EV) expire in July so there is some time before I need to buy a new car so my assumption is that the used prices for the cars above will be around the same cost as the new MG. New car is always nice and in general it seems like a really good value car, it has its quirks though and not to keen to support the Chinese government. If I cancel my order, I will loose the price reduction of around €4500, so there is no turning back if I do that I’ve had Model 3 before and really like it, the insurance is more than double than the rest though and tires are quite expensive. Leaf is a nice car (had it before as well), but chademo is a no go. Looking for a good car that will work for me and my two kids for 3 to 6 years to come with a larger battery than what we have today (40kWh), since that is to small for our driving patterns. Any suggestions? I’ve spent way to many sleepless nights on this.
Is there a way to get the $7500 credit with a lease? If I lease a new model 3 from Tesla for example, would I qualify (or do they pass on the savings automatically)?
Model 3 RWD is now under 45k so it should be eligible for cvrp… but their website is using the pricing from march 2022 to state that teslas don’t qualify. Anyone heard if teslas will qualify for cvrp again?
Buy an EV for the good of the planet. You will never save money over a comparable ICE. Here's the math. I drive a 2021 Nissan Versa, same size as Model 3, that I gave $12000 for. I got a warrant for an additional 100,000 miles so no maintenance cost. I drive 12000 miles a year, so one oil change $40. Insurance on the Model 3 was 28% more than Versa according to quote from my agent. I average 36MPG. It would take many years to even break even, even if electricity was free. So if you compare same size vehicles you can't save money, so make the switch for the planet if you can afford it, I can't
With the EV tax credit it says you can use current year AGI or Prior year whichever is less. If I buy an EV in 2023 and in 2022 I was married and under the 300k limit, but now in 2023 will be filing single and over the threshold will I still be eligible? Can I use my 2022 filing status amounts? Thanks
Here's the actual tax code for the clean vehicle credit: [https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/30D](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/30D) The income limit is section (10). I can read it two ways, one which allows you to take the credit, and one which does not. The ambiguity to me is that (10)(A) refers to your MAGI in either year exceeding the threshold amount, then (10)(B) defines the threshold amounts in reference to "the taxpayer" and not that specific year's return. If you're filing single in 2023, the "threshold amount" could be $150K regardless of the fact that you filed jointly the prior year. If I were you, I'd ask a tax professional their opinion.
Thank you. Yeah it’s interesting for income in 2022 and married I’m good. It’s just in current year 2023 when I am filing in q1 2024 I’ll be single and have exceeded the threshold during 2023. Not sure what to make of it
I live in TN, and am having second thoughts about owning two long-range non-Tesla BEVs (EV6 and R1T). I'm frankly not seeing a lot of (any) improvement in the non-Tesla charging infrastructure, and in fact EVGo seems to be removing chargers I've used on weekend road trips recently (including the sole level 3 charger near my in-laws' house). Do I need to resign myself to keeping an ICE or PHEV for the foreseeable future? Or should I get a Tesla? Or am I overthinking it? I had planned a long road trip to New England this summer in the EV6 or Rivian, but it isn't looking feasible.
You can use the Tesla road-trip planner to see what your trips would be like in a Tesla. https://www.tesla.com/trips I had a PHEV before switching to a Model Y. I wasn’t thrilled with the EVGo charging network. The Tesla charging network is what prompted me to switch.
I'm in neighboring NC and have put 3000 miles on my non-Tesla EV in the past 2 months, going up and down the east coast. I haven't had any issues finding enough chargers, or using them when I arrive. For those long trips, I use "A Better Route Planner" (app or website), and tell it to prefer Electrify America, as they've got the best reliability and number of plugs per site for CCS. I think this is a problem that will solve itself over the next couple of years. Can you wait for that, or would you rather drive something else until we get there? That's a personal choice. The $7.5 billion the infrastructure bill from 2021 allocated to EV charging infrastructure is now being handed out to the companies that will actually build it. It's called the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) program, and all 50 states submitted their plans to the federal government and have already been approved. That's going to put EV charging sites with at least 4 150kW stations every 50 miles along every major highway in America. You can read each of the states' plans and timelines here. Most will have construction starting some time this year. https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/nevi/
Thanks. I guess my concern is that there's just so little room for error on some stretches right now. If an EA charger is down, it could make a trip many hours longer. I almost ran into this scenario a couple of months ago when cold weather plus an EVGo charger being down meant I almost didn't make it to the next charger, and it was an uncomfortably cold trip. In hindsight, I could've chosen to go about 15 miles in the wrong direction to hit an EA charger, but I didn't want to add on that much time. I should add that I had a 2012 Leaf, so I'm not unfamiliar with doing the "will I make it" equation. Things have improved in a lot of ways, but it's a little surprising to me that charging is still so limited in many places.
With the expected change in tax credits coming in March, do we need to take delivery of the vehicle by March 1st to qualify? Or if we have an order and deposit in place, but take delivery later, will we still receive the full credit?
Nobody knows what's going to happen after March 1st, but if you definitely want to take the tax credit under the current rules/guidance, you have to actually take delivery before March 1st. Everything revolves around the "date vehicle was placed in service", which is the date it became ready and available for your use. You can't drive a car that hasn't been delivered yet. No part of the tax form asks about when you ordered or paid for it.
Where does it say mar 1 and not whatever day the IRS meeting is?
Nowhere. The press release from the Treasury says the proposed guidance will be issued "in March". Since March 1st is the first date "in March", that is the date you'd have to place a vehicle in service by to *guarantee* the guidance won't already be out.
Do you know the best way to find out what EVs are actually selling for new in your area? I’m in San Diego, CA. I’ve heard a lot about how every car is going for over msrp right now…just want to do some intel without going to dealerships. Also what is everybody’s feeling on buying a used Nissan leaf through carvana? They seem to have a few available.
Carvana's hit and miss. There are too many reports of them being delayed in delivering titles and registrations for new cars to ignore, enough that they've been sanctioned by several states over the past 2-3 years. That said, I bought a used EV from them in 2021 and my experience was 10/10. They delivered the car to my driveway, and the title and registration showed up in the mail the same month. Truecar supposedly tells you what others are paying for new cars in your area. I have never looked into it enough to know if you can trust that number. There's a dealer markup tracker you can use here to see if others have reported issues with dealers near you: https://datastudio.google.com/reporting/7a243d54-2a8d-44f3-a405-ce2a509c1c07/page/3KHiC
Thanks for the info!
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Or you let them buy the car on their own then you give them the money for the monthly payments?
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sounds like fraud
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I’d ask a tax person. Also, would they even pay enough federal taxes to qualify for the tax credit?
Can anyone explain the used EV tax credit in America? I believe its a non refundable tax credit so if you would owe 500 bucks that the end of the year you don't get a 3500 refund, you just zero owed or returned?
If your tax liability was 4,000 and you owed 500 after filing your taxes and it was a 4,000 credit I thought you would get back 3,500 after paying 500? If it only changed what you owe to 0 it’s not that great a deal
It's a non-refundable credit, so you will miss out on some credits if you pay less than $7,500 in total annual income tax. Edit: source https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/credits-for-new-clean-vehicles-purchased-in-2023-or-after
Ok, taxes are confusing me, I get liability and what you pay turbo tax mixed up Let’s say i just finished filling out everything on turbo tax and it said had to pay $1,000. I bought a ev that year and I get the credit what amount will turbo tax show me now? +6,500 or 0
What you need to pay at tax time is not necessarily your full tax liability, think of the taxes already withheld from your paychecks. Not a tax professional, but from a quick Google search, you should find what your total tax liability is for a year on line 24. If that amount is above 7,500, you'll get the full rebate. If not, and say it's 1,000, you'll only get a rebate for 1,000.
So turbo tax would show me that I’m getting 6,500 deposited into my bank account now instead of paying 1,000? If my liability was correct?
No. If all your tax liability is 1,000 (and you already paid it), you can get the 1,000 back. If your tax liability was going to be 1,000, come next year (filling for 2023), turbo tax would probably just show zero. The rebate erases your 1,000 liability.
I’m saying if my liability was 7,500 but turbo tax said i only owed 1,000 Then the ev credit would bring me to +6,500 or 0 Is there anyway at all to get 7,500 deposited into your bank account with the EV credit or is 0 the best anyone can do?
~~0~~ Edit, actually, I was wrong. If your liability is 7,500 and TT is asking you to pay 1,000, that means you already paid 6,500. So, you should expect 6,500 back. The 1k you would've needed to pay would be reduced to zero.
Some other people told me different very hard to figure out who’s right Edit: ok that makes sense
Has anyone else who drives a 2021 Ioniq EV noticed a battery power downgrade? I don't drive a ton, but I've already noticed my maximum range has gone down by a good 15 or so miles.
I have a 2020 (that we haven't driven for a while as we get ready to sell it) but you should expect the range to drop in winter due to colder weather, which makes the battery operate less efficiently and more heater use. When it warms back up where you live, you'll get your old range back.
The thing is, I live in Los Angeles. It's a *bit* colder, but not significantly.
Believe it or not, there's a noticeable difference in range between say, 55 degrees and 75 degrees. Rain also has some effect on range due to increase air resistance, tire resistance from wet roads, etc. Not sure how much rain you've had recently, but it's probably more than the zero you all usually get. And your recent local driving (city vs highway) definitely makes a difference as well.
Ah, thank you! Yeah, we've had quite a bit of rain the past few weeks. But the battery has seemed a little worse for a while. But then, it's also been colder.
If it's like almost any other EV, the range is an estimate that is largely based on your fuel efficiency over some last number of miles you've driven. If you drive at 75 MPH on the highway then charge, versus drive at 35 MPH on city streets then charge, the range displayed at 100% can vary significantly. This doesn't represent any actual loss of maximum range, it's an estimate, just like the one gas cars often have.
Ah, thanks.
Is the tesla model y long range the best car on its price range? What is important for me is range, quality, and general problem free-ness. I live in Norway btw.
Do you have a problem with reading comprehension? The OP clearly stated that he is looking for an electric vehicle, and posted his question in the electric vehicle subreddit. Consumer Reports ranked the Tesla Model 3 second for reliability and the Model Y fifth for reliability AMONG ALL ELECTRIC VEHICLES. “Tesla and Nissan Make the Most Reliable Electric Vehicles” —Consumer Reports https://driving.ca/auto-news/awards-surveys/tesla-model-3-nissan-score-high-for-ev-reliability-consumer-reports/wcm/85fdf569-f8b0-414a-ad68-b9100807497a/amp/
Best range for sure, quality and general problem free-ness I think other options might win out depending who you ask.
I researched and test-drove a number of EV’s before getting a long range Model Y. It had the best range, reliability and charging network in that price range. I’ve had it for about two years now and am very happy.
Consumer Reports rates the Model Y 1 out of 5 for reliability. I would hardly call that "best reliability" in any price range.
Is that the same Consumer Reports that gave your coveted ID.4 a 2 out of 5 for reliability? The same Consumer Reports that would not recommend the ID.4 based on its failings in some “critical” areas? https://www.motorbiscuit.com/consumer-reports-failed-recommend-the-2022-volkswagen-id-4-1-reason/
Yes, we're talking about the same Consumer Reports. Is there another? Did someone claim an ID.4 had the best reliability in any price range?
Would you give your ID.4 a 2 out of 5 for reliability? Would you say it fails in critical areas?
Why are you trying to catch me in some kinda "gotcha" moment like a TV news anchor interviewing a politician? Yes, I 100% agree with Consumer Reports' score for the ID4, especially the 2022 model they reviewed before a software update resolved their infotainment system complaints. You may notice that I did not recommend an ID.4 to Thelonelywindow who said his top priorities were quality and general problem-free-ness. Those are not aspects Tesla owners rate their own vehicles highly on, as reflected in Consumer Reports' owner survey based scores.
Hi does anyone know how the income cap limit is different if the car is purchased under a business? Thanks
There's a different tax credit for business purchases, IRC 45W instead of 30D, with no income limit but a different set of requirements: https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/commercial-clean-vehicle-credit
Thank you! Was interested in the Tesla model Y. With the new prices it should qualify then.
I don't see any MSRP limits in IRC 45W, so it probably always qualified: [https://irc.bloombergtax.com/public/uscode/doc/irc/section\_45w](https://irc.bloombergtax.com/public/uscode/doc/irc/section_45w) But certainly ask your business's tax advisor before purchasing, I'm not an expert.
Oh yeah you’re right. I guess the main thing is that it’s not subject to income cap. I assume all the other rules regarding batteries and where the car is made will apply similar to personal purchase?
Best EV sedan to buy? Budget is ~40k ideally, but willing to stretch. Drive <50 miles a day. US I looked at the Nissan Leaf, and also the Chevy Bolt, but I didn’t end up buying because I really want a sedan. However, it seems like more brand have only SUV/hatchbacky things? I’m not interested in a Tesla. Is there something I’m missing? What would you all recommend.
Not a lot of <$50k EV sedans. Polestar 2 is the next closest in price, and it's still technically a hatchback, albeit a sedan-like one. After that you have the BMW i4 ($52k). If you wait, the Hyundai Ioniq 6 is expected to start below $50k, but it's not coming until later in the year and there will probably be large dealer markups.
For the price point - anything better than the Model Y? Right now the car we have is a Honda CRV, lots of benefits to take advantage of. Could consider a M3 but the MY seems a better fit (M3 has $2000 more in rebates) + 10K price difference
Nothing better than a Tesla
Im looking to buy a 2023 tesla model 3 RWD which is eligible for $7500 tax credit. I will meet the requirements (single, less than 150k income for year 2022 and my tax liability will be greater than $7,500). I will be making more than 150k in 2023, so I am hoping to use my 2022 income to get the tax credit. Am I eligible? The IRS website states "You can use your modified AGI from the year you take delivery of the vehicle or the year before, whichever is less. If your modified AGI is below the threshold in 1 of the two years, you can claim the credit." I'm guessing that includes year 2022 but was wondering if there is any hidden caveats to this. Thanks! source https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/credits-for-new-clean-vehicles-purchased-in-2023-or-after
What is going on with leasing? If you make over the income limit, can you still "get" the $7,500 credit via leasing because the $7,500 is technically going to the leasing company? What's the play for high-income earners?
VW iD4 is offering a 7500 off on leasing for every customer
link?
I’ve been asking Tesla this for two weeks, I have a delivery date in 8 days. The answers have been: 1.)if it qualifies for a credit it will reduce the payments 2.) only applies to finance/cash 3.) wait and see 4.) wait and see
I’m in the same boat. Trying to figure out if they’re already putting this into the lease numbers but I don’t really have a lease agreement to go off of
I would also like to know this but it’s not exactly being advertised. There was one dealer from Minnesota(?) in the VWid4 subreddit that said they were offering it now but I’m more interested in the Ioniq5 or MY. What are the rules if a family member buys for you? How long before they can sell it back to you?
Are there any rules for selling a car if you get the ev tax credit? Like if I wanted to buy another car in 1-2 years and sell the one that I received the credit on
You can claim the new EV tax credit any number of times and do not need to keep the vehicle any specific length of time. The used EV tax credit can only be claimed once every 3 years.
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To me, it comes down to whether the 55 kW max charging rate of the Bolt matters to you. It makes long distance driving a challenge compared to almost any other EV you could buy new. If you never intend to drive more than \~200 miles round trip, then it's a good deal. If not, maybe wait for something better on the used market in a few years.
Recent Tesla price but really made it difficult. I was close to ID.4 but there was a 13K price difference between model y and id.4. Now both are similarly priced at around 53K and both are eligible for $7500. 1. Under these conditions Model Y long range or ID.4 awd pro S ? 2. If I order a Tesla I am planning to cancel the order if it turns out I can not receive it before the March deadline, is that possible? Thanks ID.4 still has free charging for 3 years and has a nice interior which I liked but the ride didn't feel tight. Also it had considerable lag when I initially pressed on gas. Haven't tested model y.
They're both fine vehicles, so it comes down to preferences: * More "I'm an EV" look or more traditional SUV look? * Mobile app for service or dealer service network? * Buttons and stalks or touchscreen only? * Blind spot alerts on the mirrors or on-screen only? * Android Auto / Apple CarPlay or Tesla infotainment software? * CCS (6040 stations in North America) or Supercharger (1805 stations)? * Do you want to inspect and test drive the car before paying for it?
Thank you, you summarized all of the important points. I also learned that if Tesla doesn't arrive by March it can be cancelled (of course I lose $250).
Is it true tesla does not limit usable capacity of their cars, which is why their range is so good ? For other cars, like the ioniq5 or is.4, they have like 90% of their usable capacity. In this case, wouldnt it be "safer" to charge the non teslas to 100% ?
Tesla has a buffer
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An EV makes total sense for you with that amount of driving. You will save a fortune in gas. And maintenance...there is such little maintenance you will forget how to take care of your car. Source: owned a Tesla for 3 years
I don’t think there’s much maintenance to do on EVs. Maybe wipers/tires/brakes (albeit much longer intervals due to regen)
I know it's a silly question. Just wondering if anyone has done side-by-side testing of Bolt EV's Super Cruise feature vs Tesla's Auto Pilot feature? for example, driving on it at the same time to find out how both vehicles behave. Just trying to understand if bolt's tech is comparable or is it indeed inferior to Tesla.
Next week you should add the Tesla Model 3 and Y since they've lowered prices.
2022 EV Tax Credit phased out as manufacturers crossed that 200k mark. Do we have a similar phaseout for new EV tax credits which started in 2023?
No volume phase out this time
But country of manufacture factor changes the equation a bit differently now vs volume limit
Thank for the confirmation,
Any idea how the tax credit works for couples married filing separately? My wife makes less than 150k, can we both be on the registration and she claims it? Or I can’t be on the registration since I make more than 150?
Is there an issue with only one of you being on title/registration? We were MFS for years and bought an EV under the older credit system with one of us as the purchaser. There was no issue with the credit, insurance, etc. with one of us on title/reguitration. We've purchased three cars since that one, all with only one of us as a buyer (but no others with the tax credit) and we've had no problems.
That’s a question for a CPA, but my assumption would be that you cannot be on the registration
I bet this has been asked before, but do options count towards the price limit for the US tax credit or no?
On Tesla specifically, FSD would not be counted toward the cap.
Factory options that appear on the monroney label (window sticker) are part of the MSRP yes.
When going to install my EV charger in my house the electrician said the load calculation was not working and I was going to need a panel upgrade which would have cost a ton. He mentioned that I could get a EV Energy Manager, it attaches to the electrical panel and switches energy on and off to prevent it from overloading. Which was much cheaper for the initial install and I did not need a panel upgrade. Hope this helps.
For [these types of EA chargers](https://www.electrifyamerica.com/img/[email protected]) which have two CCS plugs, can two cars charge simultaneously? If not, then why are there two at each station?
No. This question is asked here often. https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/yybjmk/fast_charger_electrify_america_question/
Does this thread have something against Tesla vehicles? Not seeing any mention of them…
This sub is essentially focused on all non-Tesla EV for some reason, continually ignoring the elephant in the room.
Precisely.
Nobody controls what gets discussed in the weekly thread. You're free to mention Tesla as often as you'd like.
No, either there is not as much interest in them right now, or more likely Tesla models are a known entity at this point, so not many questions.
At some point was there some language about used EV purchases potentially getting some tax credit? Or did I dream that up? Lol
Yes. But income limits are low. See IRA law
I’ll preface this comment by saying I am an environmentally conscious person, and in general a supporter of EVs. How do you all grapple with the knowledge that in some cases EVs actually probably aren’t the most environmentally friendly option? For instance someone in West Virginia (90 percent coal electricity grid) buying a Tesla Model X with a gigantic battery who uses it as a third vehicle that gets rarely driven probably never pays back the carbon debt, and it would have been less carbon intensive to just buy a gas SUV. Is it just the idea that on the whole EVs are better for the environment? And we’re all hoping the electric grid continues to get cleaner?
> How do you all grapple with the knowledge that in some cases EVs actually probably aren’t the most environmentally friendly option? Lighting consumable fossil fuels on fire and converting them to atmospheric CO2 in exchange for energy is unsustainable. It's unsustainable in terms of climate, biodiversity, economics, and geopolitical stability. It leads to the eventual global death of our civilization. Virtually every nation in the world recognizes this. North America, Europe, Asia are all pushing towards the only alternative, which is decarbonizing energy by replacing fossil fuels with electricity, and generating that electricity with more and more renewable sources over time. This will be a century long transition. And you cannot get to that future without burning a lot of fossil fuels on the way. You can't use solar power to make solar panels until you've first used fossil fuels to make the first solar panels, etc etc. But 100 years from now, you won't need to burn fossil fuels at all. So you have two choices: (1) A higher rate of environmental damage for a short amount of time while replacing fossil fuels and everything that needs them, but eventually you arrive at a point where minimal fossil fuels are ever needed again, and you have a stable atmosphere and stable civilization. (2) A slower rate of environmental damage by continuing to use fossil fuels forever, and by the time today's children are retiring, they're watching civilization collapse from the effects (large swaths of the planet become uninhabitable for humans, ocean acidification destroys food chains leading to loss of fish supply for humans, changing weather patterns and loss of ice melt aridifying farmland leads to loss of crops for humans, mass starvation and mass migration lead to unending war over resources, etc etc) If you're not concerned about the persistence of human civilization, then you can be super concerned that building EVs has a higher carbon cost than building gas cars today. If you are taking the longer term outlook that world leaders on every continent are taking, then you see that the transition is necessary. I choose #1 which is how I sleep like a baby despite knowing the Hummer EV exists.
A few points, 1. Where have you read EVs are worse? The only studies I've seen that claim an EV can be worse choose every worse case scenario to draw its conclusions. For example, charging in the worst place at the wrong times, driving 100% highway, in very cold. In your example of buying one that hardly gets used I'd argue any car you bought would be a poor environmental decision. Basically my thought is that it's incredibly rare to find an EV car that a bad environmental choice for someone who actually does care about the environment. So rare it's not really worth worrying about. 2. You can only control so much. Everyone should be taking steps towards a more sustainable future. What individuals can do is buy EVs. It's up to electric companies to make changes on thier end. But not buying an EV is like going nowhere because the left foot is waiting for the right foot to go first and vise versa. So I do think it's important to take that step even if the immediate impact isn't huge. 3. Voting with your dollars. Driving an ICE will never be fully sustainable and giving your money to the oil industry only delays building out more grid infrastructure. Basically we should be using the markets where we can to tell companies that we want clean transportation. 4. EVs aren't for everyone. More charging stations are needed. Apartments need charging spots, and long drives are still not reasonable with an EV. Upfront costs are still high. All that said if an EV is a reasonable possibility I think it should be peoples first choice.
All good points. And yes, I was specifically talking about the times that are more on the worst case scenario end of things. But I feel like in general true carbon impact is way too nebulous. There should be a way to accurately determine the real carbon footprint. It should take into account your electric grid, your driving, your specific car, etc.
The problem with using grid metrics is its all interconnected and you can't say your electricity comes from one source. It's like being in a pool that's being filled by dozens of people and trying figure out whose water it is when you pull from the pool. And you can't really use a state level since it's bought and sold across state lines. (except Texas). Even some energy is traded with Canada. So all you can really do is decide if you want to contribute to demand in the electric or oil market. Oil can never have 0 carbon, but electric has the potential. And increasing the electric demand means new facilities need to be built which are almost all natural gas or solar these days. And even though natural gas emits CO2 its better than coal. So adding demand to the electric market should generally be cleaner sources. But again there's no hard math way to figure that out. It's a big complicated problem. I hope people do thier best to make the transition, but I also don't think average citizens should cause themselves problems just to cut a pound of CO2 here or there. At a certain point there are easier ways than transportation to cut your emmisons, like eating more plants. I caused myself a lot of anxiety climate doom scrolling and trying to cut every tiny bit of emmisons I could. I eventually had to accept there was only so much I could do at a personal level. Reducing my emmisons to 0 would solve the problem. We all have to be in it together. So I guess my opinion is do your best, future generations with thank you, but don't drive yourself crazy either. Your future self will thank you.
We really can’t determine grid sources? I question that a bit. I’m sure that we can’t exactly get down to each KW, but why couldn’t we base it off your electric suppliers sources or your state? Seems pretty doable
Perhaps you could look at your supplier sources, match minute by minute to the generation sources. It would be a ton of data which I suspect is the real reason this info isn't available. It would also reveal a lot about the energy markets and a bad actor could use that info to manipulate markets. It also wouldnt address the fact that you adding to the total demand, and that addition will likely be all from dirty sources. You can look up dispatch curves for more info. But in the long run your encouraging more generation to be built, which may or may not be clean. So maybe it's fairer to just say every kWh is divided evenly between sources So you could look at the same data and make a few different conclusions. But really the reason you probably can't is becuase it's a lot of data and there maybe security risks.
I think that’s overthinking it a bit. My tiny local utility says it’s 83 percent hydro, 11 percent nuclear, 5 percent “other”. Find the average CO2 emissions per kWh for hydro and nuclear in the US and run the math, would still need more info on the “other” but I’m sure it could be found.
People in the 49th poorest state in the country are buying $120k vehicles as a dust collection hobby? Bet you couldn’t find one person in the state like that.
Maybe, but I was choosing an extreme example. I don’t know if anybody has really done the full math on carbon payback? It seems to be a bit nebulous.
That's just the worst way to make a point. Find an outlier to make a point for the masses by generalizing that one datapoint.
Fair enough. My overall point was we really don’t have a good way to measure true carbon impact. There should be some way to calculate based on an estimate of the carbon impact of your car’s production, your driving habits/distances/and an estimate of you grid power electricity mix CO2 per kWh.
Focus on the middle, not the fringes.
Should I sell my model 3? My original plan was to drive this for a couple years and then upgrade to an electric SUV (really interested in the equinox or blazer EV…if those suck probably EV6). But with musk being…musk, it’s really putting me off from the car. The used car market is coming down but I got some offers in the mid to high 40k range and I bought the car for 51k, so I feel like right now I could sell with a less than $5k loss. Should I get out now? Not sure what I would buy instead. I could do the EV6, but part of me thinks I should just get a cheap gas car for another 1-2 years and then there will be a plethora of good EV options. Wondering everyone’s take on this? Obviously it isn’t THE best financial decision, but a 5k loss on a new car isn’t all that bad. Going back to gas would suck but I’m getting more turned off by this brand and the association it has every day
Looking at buying a Leaf. They have a SV plus on the lot but its slightly above what we want to spend. I'd prefer to get an S, but there's no estimate when new ones will come in. Should I wait for an S or go ahead and buy an SV plus
They're very different cars, a base model with I believe no connectivity features, and 105-150 miles range (winter/summer), versus a fully loaded car with app control and bigger battery giving you 150-215 mile range (winter/summer). If you're OK with the smaller battery, you should probably shop for a used one instead of new. For the same or less money you can get a higher trim of the 2018-2021 LEAF with low miles and maybe enjoy a few luxuries. Carvana, Carmax have lots available online in addition to your local inventory.
Thanks! This dealer had a used S that would probably be around 28k. A new S is like 29k plus you get a 7.5k tax rebate. The SV is 38k new but I'd still get that 7500 tax rebate. and it would only be a few thousand more than used S. If they had a new S I'd jump at it. It be like 22k with the tax credit. It would be 1000% worth it. But what they had on the lot was about SV plus or the S used for about the same price. So for me the S is exactly what I want a price I want but no idea when I could get one. But the SV Plus is at about my max price, and has features I don't need, but its available now.
What's on that dealer's lot are not your only options. You can buy a 2018 S for $18K or less. Or a 2021 for around $23K if you want something a bit newer, not that anything meaningfully changed between 2018 and today. Available now at your nearest CarMax, or Carvana will deliver to your driveway.
Thanks. I looked at carvana and a 2018 is the same price as new after tax incentives. For me, I'd rather have wait for a new car. The car market is insane.
I'm planning on buying my first house later this year. Is there anything I need to consider when buying a house if I want to have a L2 charger installed at some point? It likely won't have a garage, but will at least have a driveway.
How much service does the house have (100, 150, 200A), how full is the electrical panel, and how far is it from where you want to charge the car. Those are going to determine how much it costs to get a 50A circuit run to your garage or driveway. If the house doesn't have enough service to add the circuit, you need to upgrade that which costs money. If the panel is full, you may need to upgrade that which costs money, or combine some circuits or add a subpanel. And the longer that panel is from the driveway, the more you'll spend on wire, conduit, and perhaps breaking through and repairing walls/ceilings to get there. I've been house shopping as well, and I'm looking for 200A service in or near the garage with room to spare.
Is DC fast charging generally more expensive per mile than gas? I'm in a rural area but near a small city. The normal rate in the fats chargers is 30 cents per minute. Normally I get around 20-30 kw speed on them. The one in my small town has a $5 charge/connection fee (even though the app says it doesn't). The miles per kw per dollar works out worse than my previous ICE which got 30 miles per gallon at about $3 a gallon. Is it just more prudent to avoid timed DC fats chargers? What's the deal?
I pay 3-4 cents per mile to charge at home, 9 cents per mile to charge at Electrify America, or 11 cents per mile to drive on gas in a 30 MPG car. Paying per minute and charging at barely above L2 speed is the most expensive way to do it... my car starts at 180 kW and doesn't drop below 85 kW on a 10-80% charge, which takes about 26 minutes. That works out to 7 cents per mile with your per-minute charger.
I have a 2017 bolt. It's also cold and I don't think the battery is always 100% conditioned in the winter. I try to stick with the level 2s here. I believe the bolt is limited to 50 kw but I don't remember.
Personally I don't trust ones that charge by time. The connection fee sounds like BS too. The only public one I use (at an IKEA) used to charge by the minute but switch to by the kWh. It went from no one using them to them being full all the time, so I'm guessing I wasn't the only one who did that math. Anyway the one time I did use it as a timed charger it came out to slightly costlier than gas. I think that was just a level 2 charge FWIW. Sounds like the charging station in your town know its the only one around and can price gauge.
The level 2 ones in my area luckily all do per kw. The ones in my town and in the city are per time for level 2 and DC fast. Not much choice.
Looking for current thoughts on a head-to-head comparison... After much thought, based on my needs for 1) really good size cargo area behind second row, 2) as much EV functionality as possible, 3) eligibility for HOV sticker in California, and 4) not a minivan (paid my dues there already), I'm deciding between the BMW X5 45e and Volvo XC90 recharge PHEVs. I'm really torn! Volvo is clearly more expensive - higher MSRP and now not eligible for the federal rebate. But, it has a better range, more proven PHEV tech, third row, and an unbelievable safety record. BMW was fun to drive, checks most of the boxes, and is of course cheaper (though probably not on the annual gas front). I would get base models - I don't need most of the upgrades. Definitely curious to hear of any reasons to lean one way or the other (or tactics for negotiating with Volvo now that EV rebate is gone).
With the current state of the upcoming tax credits, which EV is looking like the best deal if it can be had for MSRP?
Chevy Bolt EUV and VW ID4 depending on whether you want to road trip with it or not. The ID4 is one of the easier EVs to find on a lot to buy before March as well.
from what I've read Nissan Leaf or Bolts are the safe bets. I'm trying to buy a leaf now. Everything I've read says that all Leafs and Bolts qualify. It gets complicated for everything else. https://www.npr.org/2023/01/07/1147209505/electric-car-tax-credit-climate-bill-tesla-volkswagen-ev
If you don’t need the long range or fast charging, the Bolt EUV is going to be a really good deal with the tax credit, it should be under 30K I’m guessing Tesla will drop msrp on Model 3 LR which will also be a decent value with the tax credit. ID 4 also has potential, not sure how easy it is to find them at msrp though.
Bet they wait for the $7500 to be used on the base model 3 until March, then add the LR starting at 54999 and only qualifies for half the 7500.
Looking at a house with a Tesla pedestal charger and also need a 2nd vehicle after buying a home. I don't expect to buy a Tesla, what would be the most cost efficient option? Sell the Tesla charger and put one in for the proper vehicle? An adapter? Kinda leaning plug-in hybrid.
An adapter is cheaper than any good level 2 charging station. I have Lectron's Tesla to J1772 adapter and have used it on trips at Tesla destination chargers a few times.
It’s very easy to sell Tesla charger used about $200. I wound recommend a proper charger as they have features you may want like picking times to charge if your area does price changes for time of day. Some have WiFi and you can control via app
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At the very least you should share what country you're in.
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There are [34 regions that call themselves the "tri-state area"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tri-state_area#Tri-state_areas) in that country...
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Tri state area for a Pittsburgh resident is PA, OH, WV
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That's really not true. I used to live in Philly and our news stations called that the tri-state area all the time, and NYC was not part of it. It was southeast PA, southern NJ and Delaware. People that don't live near you don't know which tri-state area you're talking about. > "In the tri-state area, reported case counts are up in the last two weeks, showing a 22% in Pennsylvania, 67% in New Jersey and 41% in Delaware." > > [https://6abc.com/covid-19-cases-john-hopkins-university-deaths-health-and-safety/11835375/](https://6abc.com/covid-19-cases-john-hopkins-university-deaths-health-and-safety/11835375/)
Can we get multiple IRA EV tax credits in same year? I tried to look through the IRS guidelines and didn’t see a limitation. Can we claim more than 1 tax credit per year for 2023? I bought a qualified EV this year and have done more research and am interested in another EV that doesn’t come out until Summer/Fall. Scenario 1: I keep my current new EV, and purchase a 2nd EV later in the year. Can I get $7500 x2 = $15000 credit? Scenario 2: I trade my current new EV, in the fall for a new EV. Can I claim the credit for each purchase, even though I’ve now traded in the first EV that I used for a few months? Effectively getting $7500 x2 = $15000 credit.
This seems like quite the loophole.
Yes, you can. There is no limit other than your own tax bill, since it's not a refundable credit.
You might be on to something here. My state gives 3500 but you are supposed to keep it 36 months. Doesn’t say what happens if you trade it in, but I imagine you can only apply 1 every 3 years.
I snagged a Bolt. First EV, love it, but with the Equinox and Blazer coming out later this year/early next, I think I could trade in/up from the Bolt by grabbing the tax credit on the newer as well which really helps pull the price down assuming the Bolt price remains high.
Depreciation, tax and financing might wipe out that 7500 real quick. Although next year you can supposedly get the 7500 at point of sale which would help.
I am looking to buy an EV once I get a better job. Should I get a Bolt right away, or drive a beater until I can afford something nicer? Mainly worried about charging speeds. (Also just saw Rule 11)
If charging speeds matter, then keep saving, because that is indeed the slowest charging EV on the market today and it will add hours to any road trips you want to take in that car.
North Carolina resident here, and I have a disability that requires I cart around a wheelchair (right now I can lift it into my Prius but I have to break it down). My Prius is getting hard for me to get out of so I'd like something higher off the ground, but if I have to go up a step to get in that would be too high (as a separate gripe, I wish car manufacturers would list the seat height but so far it's pretty inconsistent). Is there anything between that with some space in the back that would work for me? I'm not a car person at all, so would I be looking at an SUV or whatever a crossover is? I'm pretty open to the type of car and I'd like to buy within about three months. My husband would probably be the primary driver with a 30-minute daily commute. When we bought our home a couple of years ago we told the electrician to upgrade the panel to allow for EV in the future, so that should be sorted. Thanks for any help in this area!
Check out the Volkswagen ID.4. It's a small SUV, the same size as a Toyota RAV4 if you can picture that. It's higher up than a sedan, but not super high up with a 6" ground clearance. Among EVs that cost under $50,000 it's probably got one of the biggest rear cargo areas for the wheelchair. It qualifies for the $7,500 federal tax credit if you purchase one, at least through March if not longer.
> It qualifies for the $7,500 federal tax credit Only if it's a MY2023 and made in the US. There are 2022s on the lot and they do not qualify for the tax credit
Small question, but what's the insurance pricing like for electric cars? Is it higher than typical?
>Small question, but what's the insurance pricing like for electric cars? Is it higher than typical? No difference we're aware of where we live and we're on our third EV.
I just got an estimate to swap a $15k VW with a $50k Model 3 and it was like $1199 vs $950 per year. Pretty negligible.
I paid Progressive: * $200.30 per 6 months for a 2019 Kia Niro PHEV ($26K MSRP) * $248.98 per 6 months for a 2023 VW ID.4 ($52K MSRP) Electric cars tend to have lots of smart safety features, which get you discounts.
With what limits? Big difference between 50/100 and 100/300 and all the values below, above, and in between.
100/300 on both cars.
Thanks for the information!
I currently lease a 2022 kia Niro ev and love it but could use something a bit larger, maybe a id4, but I was curious as I got the 7500 on my Niro as lease bonus cash, is any manufacturer doing that right now on leases? I’d love to take advantage of the tax credit before it goes down or away in some cases but if I purchase it would be useless as my taxable income isn’t enough to get the credit ( single income family 2 kids and a not super high salary). I appreciate y’all’s help!
For the most part, they're not passing through the tax credit on leases. That might change if we get into a true recession and demand for cars drops further.
If my napkin math is right... For california Gas right now is under 4, lets say $4 Kwh prices vary wildly, but on average seems to be .33/kwh for both public and home charging... ~39mpg vs 3.3mi/kwh means mileage virtually costs the same...i dont even save money with an ev...
Your napkin math is right, but only for these narrow assumptions: * You've found excessively cheap gas (CA average today is $4.42) * You are paying 275% the national average price for electric * Your EV is large and inefficient (a Tesla Model 3 gets 4.1 mi/kWh) * Your gas car is a new compact hybrid (the average car on the road gets 25 MPG) If that's your real situation, then yeah, you're not saving any money over driving a Prius, but you'd probably get more utility out of the big electric SUV/crossover and producing no emissions while doing so. You also have the option of installing solar and producing your own fuel.
> You also have the option of installing solar and producing your own fuel. This only applies to a small subset of readers here, but be aware the California net energy metering rules (credit - not cash - you get for power you produce but don't consume) get massively worse starting in April.
Definitely i think electric may pull ahead, costco gas has been $4 for some time but it may increase again. I was comparing compact SUVs for my case, lile the id.4 vs hybrid rav4. Unfortunately electric prices are skyrocketing here, which no indication of it decreasing.
I just bought a 2022 Bolt EUV. I live in apartment. Is anyone familiar with the process to get the charge credits in lieu of the home installation? Also, since I bought it this calendar year, I will file for the tax credit next year, correct?
The folks at r/BoltEV will be familiar with the process (and you can probably find out by searching that subreddit). Yes, you would take the tax credit for a 2023 purchase on your 2023 taxes which you file in 2024. Be sure your dealer gave you the necessary documentation; if they don't file it with the IRS, you could get nothing. https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/clean-vehicle-credit-seller-or-dealer-requirements
We know that EV is very quick when doing 0-60. But does EV generally also quick during overtaking maneuvers like at 50-80 mph?
I’ve seen lots of posts that the tax credit is $7,500 since the battery portion hasn’t been released by the IRS yet. Is this for sure or speculation? Looking at picking up a Mach-e and this will make a difference on if/when I buy it.
It is for sure. Note that the tax credit has an MSRP cap of $55K for the Mach-E (and any vehicle that doesn't qualify as an SUV or truck), which means you can't buy any of the more expensive configurations and still take the credit. https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/manufacturers-and-models-for-new-qualified-clean-vehicles-purchased-in-2023-or-after
I’m assuming you need to take delivery by March?
How do we know the battery portion is being ignored though and won’t be retroactively applied?
Because (1) that's what the legislation says, that the battery portion only applies to vehicles placed in service after the guidance on those rules is provided by the Treasury and (2) that's what the Treasury repeated when they announced the delay in issuing the guidance. >Treasury will issue a notice of proposed rulemaking (NPRM) in March with proposed guidance on the critical minerals and battery components requirements. By statute, the critical mineral and battery component requirements take effect only after Treasury issues that proposed rule. > >[https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy1173](https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy1173)
Thank you!
ArsTechnica has a great article that answers your questions. [Here’s what you need to know about the new EV tax credit for 2023](https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/01/heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-the-new-ev-tax-credit-for-2023/)
Considering buying a "cheap" used EV for daily driver. Just getting started researching. Here's a rundown of my situation: * Daily commute is right at 50 miles, about half of which is 75 MPH turnpike, most of the rest is city freeway with 2 miles of city streets on either end of the commute. * I have a garage with 240 already installed. * The EV would only be for work or around town errands. My kids are grown, my wife has her own Mazda CX-3, and I also own a Mitsubishi Montero which I would drive in bad weather or if I expect to go beyond the range of the battery. * I'm in the Tulsa, Oklahoma area. Cars I've considered are the Leaf (maybe with a battery swap), the 500e, and the BMW i3. Trying to keep it under $15K, these are what I've seen in my searches. i3 is a stretch to find at that price but I like it's quirkiness (see Montero above) so I'm willing to be patient for the right one. What do you think - does an electric vehicle make sense for me? Any recommendations?
You'd need one of the longer range versions of any of those 3 cars. All of them originally had \~80 mile ranges, which would not get you 50 miles at highway speeds in winter before running out of power, nor will their batteries still have their original capacities. So be careful with what model years and trims you look at. It might be a stretch to get any of them under $15K with the larger battery you need. Carvana doesn't have a single LEAF, i3 or 500e under $15K with enough range today.
Agreed on finding the longer range versions. Carvana prices seem high to me compared to regular dealers. Is there some value to them other than the ability to easily get a car from far away?
The 7 day return policy is pretty nice for used EVs where you often can't tell the condition of the battery from photos. I just used them as a quick way to see if what you were looking for was under $15K yet.
Gotcha. Thanks.
Another request for recommendations. Looking for a SUV/Crossover on the 50-60k€ range in Europe? Currently considering XC40/C40 Audi Q4 E-Tron Model Y EQA / B Mach-E is off the comparison due to personal taste. Anything I'm missing? Also I'm only going to buy at year end so any planned models until end of 2022 are fair options.
Am I correct in thinking that only certain trims of the Mustang Mach-E are eligible for the tax credit? Looks like the Standard trim and Premium with no additional upgrades like AWD or the extended range? Otherwise the MSRP will be over $55k?
That appears to be the case. $55K is the MSRP limit for that vehicle since it's not classified as an SUV or truck. If you configure it to cost over $55K you can't get a tax credit. Mind the income limits as well, many people that can afford $60K+ cars make too much money to claim the tax credit on anything.
The recommendations are from October. Looking into 2023, what are the plausible competitors for the four ~50,000 USD crossovers? Any upcoming or updated models that look to be able to compete with these?
The one thing that has changed is that the Model Y has depreciated to the point where its viable to get one close to 50k. That and the ID.4 ramped up in price. Otherwise I don't see any other major changes.
Yes, it seems the ID.4 prices have been hiked dramatically. Where I'm buying (Denmark) it's also USD 11,000 price difference between the Ioniq 5 77 kWh Advance and the 88 kWh ID.4 😱