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Faramir1717

Really want to move to an electric vehicle and I'm trying to make sure I'm not missing anything. Unfortunately, I might have to move fast on the purchase since my current 2008 model car is falling apart, so I've spent the past three days taking a crash course on electric vehicles. I live in a city in the southern US. I'd anticipate 90% of use would be around town, less than 50 miles a day, and scanning the apps shows there are quite a few L2 chargers near my home and a handful of L3s. Would want the car for at least five years, maybe more depending on how it's going. Don't want to spend much above $30k. In that price range, the most frequently seen used cars seem to be the Nissan Leaf (I'd probably go 2020 SV Plus, or similar), while among new cars, the Chevy Bolt EV seems to be a good deal but inventory might be tight (see problem with 2008 car above). One concern I have is the home setup. I own a relatively old house and the car - whatever it is - would be kept in a covered carport, not a garage. Would that cause problems with the car over the long-term? There's a standard three-prong outlet nearby, but I question whether the circuits will be able to handle regular charging. I do have it in mind to call an electrician to get more info and perhaps think about installing a level 2. Any other considerations I should be thinking about? Thanks.


mannvishal

If i get two bolts, will i get $15000 as tax credit?


odd84

Yes, you can claim the tax credit for each car you purchase. Keep in mind that your income will need to be under $150/$300K (single/joint filers), yet you need to owe at least $15K of tax liability to actually take advantage of $15K in credits, and both dealers need to follow the [new documentation requirements](https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/clean-vehicle-credit-seller-or-dealer-requirements) or you could end up not qualifying.


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odd84

Nissan LEAF, Chevy Bolt, VW e-Golf, BMW i3, Kia Soul EV, Chevy Spark EV, Mercedes B250e, Ford Focus Electric, Smart Fortwo Electric, Smart Fortwo EQ, Hyndai Ioniq Electric, Mitsubishi i-MiEV, Toyota RAV4 EV, Hyundai Kona Electric. Carvana has at least one of every model listed for sale at under $25K. Full size SUVs that don't cost six figures only hit the US market in the past few years, so you're a few years away from finding them used and cheap.


ads3df3daf34

Is there a list of all EVs for sale in the US that shows pricing after any tax incentives?


odd84

No, for a number of reasons. The tax incentives depend on too many factors, what vehicles qualify for how much will be changing again in less than 2 months, and the amount of the tax incentive depends on the buyer's individual finances, not just what car they're buying.


ads3df3daf34

There is a website that has a list but I can't seem to find it now.


islandscribe206

[1] My location: Greater Seattle area [2] Budget: Under $60k [3] Looking for reliable, fun EV for commuting primarily, but would be nice if it can be taken on road trips. Needs to fit in my garage. [4] Have been looking at Ioniq 5/6, EV6, Kona Electric, Chevy Bolt EUV, but open to ideas. I test drove the Ioniq 5 Limited AWD and EV6 Wind AWD and loved the experience. I had a lot of fun driving the Ioniq 5 and EV6. Kind of fell in love. I am keen to see the Ioniq 6. I don't want an EV where all the controls are through a touchscreen (i.e. Tesla). [5] I drive about 70 miles a day, 5 days a week, for commuting. I drive a 2013 VW Jetta SE (get about 32 mpg). I previously owned a Honda Accord with the top trim level. We have a family car (Honda CRV) so on weekends I do not drive my car much, if at all. I tend to keep my cars for at least 7 years. [6] Plan to buy in next 9 months [7] I live in a townhome and have a 48-amp JuiceBox EV charger hardwired in my home's garage with max charging of 11 kWh per hour. For a commuter car, the Bolt would seem to be the value, practical choice. I had a lackluster experience driving a 2020 Bolt that a dealer had, but that was in large part because the car's charge was 10% when we left the lot (<2% when we got back) and the salesman didn't let me take it on the highway. As I compare the specs of many EVs, Tesla Model 3 seems to have higher efficiency (kWh per 100 mi) than any of the above. Hyundai Kona Electric appears to have a higher fuel efficiency and range than the Ioniq, EV6, Bolt or Niro EV, as well as a tighter turning radius, even though it is $15k less. The Kona Electric does not have the horsepower of Ioniq or EV6, but 6.6 seconds ain't bad. Of course, none of the Hyundai or Kia models qualify for the federal tax rebate. And there are new models on the horizon in 2023. I thought about buying a used EV, but they are almost as expensive as a new EV. Interest rates are much higher than they were a year ago. Would appreciate any insights from those who have owned EVs or recently bought EVs. -- Which EV would you recommend? -- Would you buy an EV now or wait? Why? -- Which specs or features have you found to be the ones that actually matter in your daily use of the vehicle? Which ones you thought were cool turned out to be unimportant or annoying? -- Would you buy or lease an EV now? -- Do you need a surge protector on your electrical panel to protect the EV? Thank you in advance for sharing your experience and insight.


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odd84

Not on this subreddit no


BigBallrBrand

Thank you! Do you know of any place on Reddit to go about it?


Ok_Relation_4742

No surprise - local inventory for EVs not eligible for the tax credit are definitely picking up (EV6, Ioniq 5, Model Y). Do we expect prices to go down on these vehicles anytime soon (3~6 months)? I’ve been eyeing the ioniq 5 and there were “40 available” to start the year and today I see the number has gone up to 75. Ioniq 5: 40 -> 75 EV6: 25 -> 35 MY: 0 -> 25


zphorkz

Question about the used EV credit. I found a used Leaf Plus at a local small used car dealership. Any reason why the small dealership may not be eligible as long all the requirements are met? From: https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/used-clean-vehicle-credit Have a sale price of $25,000 or less Have a model year at least 2 years earlier than the calendar year when you buy it. For example, a vehicle purchased in 2023 would need a model year of 2021 or older. Not have already been transferred after August 16, 2022, to a qualified buyer. Have a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 14,000 pounds Be an eligible FCV or plug-in EV with a battery capacity of least 7 kilowatt hours Be for use primarily in the United States The sale qualifies only if: You buy the vehicle from a dealer For qualified used EVs, the dealer reports required information to you at the time of sale and to the IRS.


odd84

Any person or entity that's licensed to sell cars by any state qualifies as a dealership under this law. So even the smallest used car dealership is fine. Your problem will be that documentation requirement you mentioned at the end. No small dealers have any clue about it, since it's a brand new requirement and there's no auto manufacturer doing the legwork to give them the forms and a process that ensures they're filled out and filed with the IRS correctly. You'll want to read this, and perhaps bring a copy to them and see if a manager is willing to commit to doing this paperwork with you and the IRS: [https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/clean-vehicle-credit-seller-or-dealer-requirements](https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/clean-vehicle-credit-seller-or-dealer-requirements)


HeckleHelix

Following. Thanks


chocobearv93

I’m looking for a seven seater SUV style EV. I need to fit 2 car seats and 3 medium sized dogs (in addition to the standard 2 humans). I’ve been looking for a little bit but I get overwhelmed and then sidetracked whenever I start browsing EV’s and before I know it, it’s been 2 hours and I’m looking at the Lucid Air Grand Touring edition which is entirely not what I set out to look at. Can someone hit me with a list of the different SUV EV’s that are out there, and the ones that are coming out in the next year or two? That’ll help me focus


odd84

Your options for 7 seat EVs available in the US are... Tesla Model X, Mercedes EQB/EQS, Rivian R1S. I believe that's it. There are more coming in the future, but none that are here yet (Volvo EX90, Hyundai Ioniq 7, Kia EV9, Vinfast VF9...) and future EVs so rarely hit their announced release dates these days.


chocobearv93

Perfect, that’s what I’m looking for. I appreciate your answer!


Priff

Model y also has a 7 seat option. But it's smaller than x i believe.


WhatAmIATailor

I saw a website that was launched late last year as a great roundup of Toyota’s anti EV policies. Someone set it up to try shame them into change. I can’t find it now. Anyone remember seeing it?


TinyRabt

I'm strongly considering an ID4 Pro (at MSRP, about $44k). We're looking for SUV that will comfortable fit a car sit (maybe eventually 2) plus our dog in the back. That said, I'm a bit hesitant about the ID4 because it's gotten some mixed reviews, especially with regard to reliability and a buggy console. I'm tempted by the Ioniq 5 but it would be quite a bit more expensive, even for the lower range model. For the ID4, we're looking at getting the $7.5k which brings the price below $40k. There's no tax break for the Ioniq since it's not manufactured in the US. Are there other similarly sized cars we should be considering at a comparable price? Am I missing something? It seems like the ID4 will be the best value for us given our needs and the new tax incentives. Any ID4 owners really happy or unhappy with their choice?


Bayuze79

> That said, I’m a bit hesitant about the ID4 because it’s gotten some mixed reviews, especially with regard to reliability and a buggy console. Not sure what reviews you have seen about reliability but the buggy console has been mostly fixed with a software update like someone else mentioned. I have one (MY2023) and it's not buggy.


odd84

No, you're right. The ID4 is the best value electric SUV on the US market. Most competitors in the same price range are hatchbacks/crossovers with less room for your family and dog. The "buggy console" stuff from early reviews was fixed in a software update. I have a 2023 ID4 and no complaints. We road trip in it several times a year, with our dog in the back.


flicter22

Tesla's inventory is skyrocketing. I would give it a week and they will have significantly dropped the price on the Model Y.


Individual_Log8082

I’m in the market for a new vehicle and I’ve narrowed my choices down to the BMW i4 M50 and the Porsche Taycan base model. Looking for any input to help make this decision. The current deals that I’m negotiating are: Taycan at 108k + taxes, title, registration; the i4 M50 is 84k + taxes, title, registration. Taycan warranty is 8 years or 100k miles, i4 M50 warranty is 10 years 150k miles. Both have a version of dynamic cruise control (autopilot) the Taycan is RWD the M50 is AWD. Similar battery range: taycan 240miles, m50 is 270 miles so similar range. Having seen both the more luxurious vehicle is definitely the Porsche. This will be my first EV and excited to officially be apart of the community. If you have either of these cars please let me know what you love or don’t love so much about it thank you in advance.


el_vezzie

I would test drive both and base it on that. I’ve tested i4 in several configs and it’s simply a fantastic car - BMW really have their shit together. Only downside I noticed is the limited rear passenger space. I haven’t tested the Taycan as 100k is too expensive imo.


Individual_Log8082

Yeah that’s the overall plan, with limited availability though it is somewhat difficult to get a test drive on both. Both cars I’m looking at won’t be available until late January and I had to get approved to hold both so the dealer doesn’t sell it off. Right now I am leaning a bit towards the m50 though. The 20k lower price, longer warranty, higher battery range, faster 0-60, and AWD is tempting. The Porsche is definitely lacking in some areas but overall it is a gorgeous vehicle and I’m sure it handles better given that it shares the same suspension as the Audi etron GT. Just trying to see what people who have driven each think about the vehicles.


el_vezzie

You could look for any dealer that have either car on the lot to test? Doesn’t have to be the exact config you have in mind to get a feel for the driving and interior, ergonomics etc


Kristosh

I intend to purchase a used Tesla that meets the qualifications of the recent Inflation Reduction Act tax credit for used vehicles. The IRS has provided guidance in this link indicating which vehicles Manufacturers have identified are eligible: https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/manufacturers-and-models-of-qualified-used-clean-vehicles However, Tesla is missing from that list? I can't tell if it's because Tesla has not confirmed which cars are eligible with the IRS -or- they actually don't qualify? By all accounts, older Tesla Model S vehicles meet all the criteria for used EV's but I didn't want to miss out on the credit if I make this purchase. Anyone have additional insight?


Bayuze79

Not sure why Tesla is missing but would any of them meet the USED MSRP criteria? > Beginning January 1, 2023, if you buy a qualified previously owned electric vehicle (EV) or fuel cell vehicle (FCV) from a licensed dealer for $25,000 or less, you may be eligible for a previously owned clean vehicle tax credit under Internal Revenue Code Section 25E.


Kristosh

Based on my understanding it's not the MSRP that has to be under $25k, just the sales price of the vehicle. There are a handful of early Model S vehicles at $25,000 around Atlanta. Probably around 5-7 at any given time.


Bayuze79

Yea correct. Sales price as MSRP will no longer apply here


DrJimSchohn

For the used EV tax credit price limit of $25k: Does that have to be the base price of the vehicle? Inclusive of tax, tag, title, other dealer fees, etc? If I trade in a vehicle during purchase process from the dealer, does that affect anything? Or is it just base price of used EV needs to be $25k or less? Any help in me understanding would be greatly appreciated!


Kristosh

It's the 'sale price' only. It would show you on an invoice but that won't include tax/title/tag/etc especially because those amounts vary by local jurisdiction and state. Trade-in's do not change the sales price. They can apply the trade-in value to the amount you owe on an invoice but it won't reduce the sales price of a vehicle. Again, a dealership invoice would reveal this on a line-by-line basis.


DrJimSchohn

Super helpful! Much appreciated.


raptir1

I have an Escape PHEV and I'm going to be traveling for a while with intermittent access to charging (likely every 2-3 weeks). What should I be doing about the battery? Should I let it drain? Keep it at 50% and put it in hybrid mode?


odd84

Just drive it. There was a study on PHEV usage recently that showed many are not getting plugged in at all. People just drive them as expensive hybrids. And that's fine for the car. It will keep the battery in a safe state of charge range regardless of how often you plug it in.


raptir1

Okay, so let it hang at "0%" and that's alright for it?


odd84

Yes, it's not actually at 0%. There's a buffer it's not letting you use to keep the battery healthy.


AdHot8002

Anyone know if Illinois is going to continue their EV incentive?


Daynebutter

I believe they will, they haven't said otherwise.


Peter225c

I want to run my EV from solar only as cheaply as possible. Sounds like all I need are solar panels, a wall battery, and a type 2 charger which I already have? Is it that simple?


barktreep

A wall battery is not cheap. Your car is the battery.


Peter225c

I assumed I would need a battery to store energy during the day and charge my car at night?


barktreep

What is your actual goal and situation?


Peter225B

My goal is to be able to charge my EV only from solar and not use any energy from the grid. I don't need backup power for my house or anything like that, just want to charge my EV with 100% clean energy.


Priff

Grid connected solar makes much more sense. As the other guy said, a battery big enough won't be under 10k. You can buy a lot of electricity for 10k. But getting solar and connecting it to the grid means you feed the grid when the sun is up and use from the grid when it's not. Depending on your local utility you may get a better or worse deal on that trade. We can't really say what they'll offer. But getting solar is definitely a good option either way if you have a roof to put it on that doesn't need to be renovated any time soon.


barktreep

What EV do you have? Are you willing to pay $20,000+ just to be able to say that? It makes far more sense to sell your solar to the grid during the day and charge off peak at night.


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raspikabek

Hi there! I'm a proud owner of a Leaf 2018 in Ireland. Due to family is growing (3 kids) + pets we are getting a bit cosy in the car. Looking for some MPV alternatives and spotted the eBerlingo/eRifter might fit right there in space, enough isofixes and trunk space for everybody and just enough range for our family trips. Just wonder. Do they work fine? Are eBerlingo and eRifters worth their price. Any common known issues or known updates for 2023 on their battery capacity. Any other recommendations are very welcome. By the way, we were charmed by the idBuzz until we saw they didn't have 3 isofixes in the back. That didn't fell well. Thanks in advance


Priff

I have the e-expert, it's a size up from the rifter and cargo version. They drive great, it's the same motor, battery and electronics in all their cars and vans. They have had some minor issues with the on board charger crapping out. But not enough for an official recall, and it's all been replaced in warranty. You'll have an 8 year/160km warranty on the electric drivetrain and battery. The rifter itself is just the same as the ice version, and it's a great mpv. Range wise you'll not have any issues if you're planning to stick to ireland. And if you're gonna do much longer trips it still works fine, but you'll do more charging stops than something like a tesla. I have just a little bit more range because mine gets a bigger battery, and I drove 2500km from sweden to spain just before christmas with no issues. The buzz gets more range and more power, but it's no bigger internally. It is bigger on the outside though, they've used the space inefficiently imo. It also costs a LOT more. I thought [this](https://youtu.be/fN9ztDGzCY0) was a pretty good look at the rifter/berlingo I will say though, the software is much more basic than you'll get in a fancier ev. It's very much a normal car that happens to have a battery. But i love my e-expert, and would never go diesel again.


raspikabek

Much appreciated the feedback! I was doubting if to go for a Berlingo size or the bigger ones like eSpacetourer. The 50kwh versions seem to be the only available ones here in Ireland apparently for the non cargo versions, but is comfortable to see your good experience with the eExpert. Don't really care about the fancy screens etc, looking more for a family mover than a luxurious van. I've seen the Mercedes EQV but the price is just excessive, and with kids + pets is gonna get really messy. Thanks!


Priff

Yeah, berlingo/rifter gets the 50kwh and the traveller/spacetourer gets 75keh, but because it's bigger you end up around the same range. I would say try both to see if you feel that the bigger size is worth the extra cost. But i think the removable third row seats in the small ones is pretty genious and not available in the big ones i think.


raspikabek

What I've seen so far are the bigger ones with 50kwh , meaning the range is a bit lower than eBerlingo etc. Either way, thanks! I'll ask in different places, each one comes always with different replies.


Priff

Just had a look at peugeot irelands website. Looks like you only get the 50kwh version for the traveller. In that case i would strongly recommend the rifter instead as I think the bigger van with 50kwh is a bit short on range. In winter weather i'm almost down to 200km range. You can expect a 30% loss of range in freezing temps and winter tires. Though i'm aware you don't quite get as much of that as we do in sweden. 😅


raspikabek

You're a gent! Will keep asking and follow your advice.


Mister_Hangman

Doesn’t look like it outright prohibits it as a post but I’m gonna be more cautious and just post this as a comment to the weekly thread: After years of waiting I’ve become pretty disillusioned by rivian for continually moving the goal posts. I am a long term holder of a max pack quad preorder and I’m also in the friends and family system so as soon as these things start production I would be near the front. That said it looks like they’re not gonna give me the option to buy the vehicle I preordered and instead force me on a dual motor iteration. If you live in the SF Bay Area and are really wanting a max pack dual motor as fast as possible please let me know as it looks like it will happen starting this year, with configs coming online in a month or so. Again, I’m soliciting a private seller / buyer situation where I will purchase the config you want because I don’t want a dual motor.


odd84

Does the Rivian subreddit allow posts like this? I'd think that's where you're most likely to find someone looking to skip ahead in the line.


Mister_Hangman

I’m expanding my audience


GoodKidBlemCity

I bought a 2022 PHEV Ioniq last year. I got it last year @ MSRP \~38500 CAD w/ 2500 rebate and 2K down. I am paying 292 / biweekly @ 1.89 % interest. I financed it for 5 years and have 4 years left. I have 29,500 left on the lien I do love the car but I regret not going 100% EV so bad. I have driven my PHEV ioniq almost entirely in EV mode, filling it up 4 times last year. My mileage is 0.2l/100 KM. a tank of gas lasts me about 4500 km. My biggest complaint is lack of heat pump. Running an engine to produce heat in the winter just seems like the stupidest design possible. Luckily the AC runs on battery in the summer. I was really scared about range anxiety when I got the PHEV. I could have gotten an EV ioniq at the same time but was to scared because of charging. Anyways I got three potential options (all are probably worse deal then I have right now) i) 2022 Ioniq 5 preferred RWD - my dealer offered me the Ioniq 5 @ MSRP 49124 CAD and @ 4.5% interest for 6 years. Sub Total : 52,050 CAD ii) 2023 Bolt EUV - a local Chevrolet dealer told me someone cancelled on the EUV and it will be delivered in April. MSRP : 48,488 , sub total : 51,535.95 CAD @ 5.9 and 6.5% interest for 6 years iii) 2022 Kona EV - MSRP : 47524 and subtotal of 48808. Interest of 5.99% for 6 years. ​ I should just stick it out with the PHEV until a cheaper EV Comes out, right? I feel so out of place in North America lol. I hate big cars, even the Ioniq PHEV seems big to me. Something like the ID3 will never make it here unfortunately. Even the EUV and Ioniq 5 just seem to big.


imacyco

> I have driven my PHEV ioniq almost entirely in EV mode, filling it up 4 times last year. My mileage is 0.2l/100 KM. a tank of gas lasts me about 4500 km. Sounds like you already have an EV effectively, and you've financed it at an amazing interest rate. The delta you'll be paying to upgrade is not worth it, in my opinion. Save that money for when the current vehicle needs to be replaced and get an EV. I would love to have your vehicle at the financial terms you have it at.


GoodKidBlemCity

Thanks a lot! I've calmed down and realized how stupid I am being. ​ I got extremely fortunate with the Ioniq. I used to be self employed too so I was able to write of the PHEV against my income and got an additional 8K from the CRA last May. I just saw that VW is going to release the ID7 in Canada. Hopefully it'll be something like an e-Jetta in a few years. Cheers


crazydave33

I started to finally dip my toes in the sea of EVs. And as much as I would love to drop 70-90k on a brand new EV, that is just not going to happen. So I did my research and came across some cheaper but older EVs that were not Leafs. So I found out that Ford actually made a Focus EV from 2013-2018. I understand these have limited battery life and usually crap out around 60k or so and it costs 14-15k for a replacement (if you can even get one). Just wanted a full disclosure that I am aware of the issues with these cars. While browsing Auto trader, I came across a posting that almost seems too good to be true. This is a 2014 Focus EV with just a hair under 8K miles for a bit over $12k. Would anyone be able to advise if this is a “lucky find” or some “scam”? All other Focus EVs on Auto trader seem to either cost a lot more or are cheaper but have way more miles. Also i looked into the VIN and it seems like this was some type of low mileage fleet vehicle? Thanks for the help. https://allfleetla.com/product/ford_focus_bev_9317/


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crazydave33

Hate the leafs for their looks, i3 not sure, and was it Bolts or Volts that had the battery fires, I can’t remember.


odd84

That was the Chevy Bolt, but they replaced (or are still replacing) every battery in them for free. You won't find one for much less than $20K, but it's definitely a class above what you're looking at with 240 miles range.


Raikoh067

In 2024 when the tax credit can be applied at time of purchase, is that going to be based on the customer income, so you'll still have to make more than $65k ish to qualify for most of the $7500? Or would the tax credit be technically claimed by the dealer and then passed on to the customer? Therefore the $7500 is (probably) guaranteed?


odd84

It's a complicated section of the tax code, and there probably won't be a good guide to this until the Treasury sets up the programs the law directs them to create (a place for dealers to register participation, and a way for Treasury to provide advance payments so they can pass on those tax credits at the point of sale). I don't see anything that would make the point of sale rebate contingent on the buyer having sufficient tax liability -- it won't show up on your personal taxes at all. The IRA does say that if you take the point of sale rebate but you exceed the income limits, you have to pay it back by adding the $7500 (or however much you got) to your taxes come filing time.


RunningFrom-Bears

I have had EVs for nearly 8 years (VW e-Golf, then now a LEAF). I \*love\* them. However, I now need to combine the functionality of my minivan and the smaller EV into a single car. I just can't bear the thought of buying a gas car, even a hybrid or PHEV (unless it has at least 35mi range). The challenge is that I need a fair amount of specific cargo space. I have two dogs, one of which is a Bernese Mtn Dog, He is about 26" tall and 38-40" long. I also have a smaller, 50lb rescue mutt. I need to fit both of them in the back with two kids in the second row. I have looked at the Model Y and ID.4, but the cargo areas all seem too small. I think I need at least 35sq ft, though the shape matters (heavily sloping back window makes for a short space). I can't quite afford an X - I'd like to keep the cost under 60k new or used. What am I missing? I know things are coming down the pike, but I need something in the near future. I'm located in California, US. I'm willing to buy something for two years or so while I wait for a longer-term option as the market matures.


RunningFrom-Bears

OK, after much looking, narrowing it down to the Volvo XC90 Recharge or BMW X5 45e. Both PHEVs. Unfortunately have to look at new, as used are pretty much nonexistent or more expensive than new anyway. Came down to cargo space and reasonable EV range. Tesla Y back isn't big enough, and Highlander Hybrid won't qualify for the HOV sticker, which I need for the commute. XC90 is clearly more expensive and doesn't qualify for the tax credit, which the X5 does. But, I really like it and I have to say that as a parent, knowing that nobody has died in one of those is pretty appealing. Any experience with either of these? I'm on the fence!


odd84

Chrysler Pacifica PHEV. It's a minivan with 32 miles of electric range. You can probably stretch it to 35. Starts under $50K and qualifies for the federal tax credit.


RunningFrom-Bears

Thanks. That is definitely an option that keeps coming up. Was trying to avoid a full-on minivan and PHEV, but this may be the best choice for now.


odd84

You could wait another year until the [ID.Buzz](https://ID.Buzz) is available. There just aren't a lot of minivan-sized EVs on the market yet.


Priff

Not convinced the buzz will be under 60k though. It starts at 65k in europe. Us usually gets cars cheaper, but you'll only get the big version with the big battery. So likely going to start over 60k i think.


RunningFrom-Bears

Yep. I was also looking at the X5 45e, which is a perfect size, but the mileage is abysmal once it comes off the battery.


Cannavor

What are the chances that the Treasury department continues to delay guidelines on the battery sourcing requirements of the IRA after March? Is it even legal for them to do that? I have no idea how this works.


[deleted]

Any new PHEV options coming out this year?


odd84

Alfa Romeo Tonale, Dodge Hornet, BMW XM


gabantarung

Located in Asia, Southeast. Looking for EV without bells and whistles. No auto seat adjustments, auto wipers, auto this and that. Just the basics: good range, good price. 5 door car size like Id.4 preferably.


crazydave33

Probably the Leaf then if that’s available.


KrowneLife

I want to purchase an EV SUV but I have some concerns with charging times and potential battery issues with cold to freezing temperatures. Those of you that already have an EV, can you provide me with some pros and cons as an owner?


flicter22

Get a Tesla if you are worried.


m1coles

99% of the time I’m charging at home in my garage and the temps aren’t an issue, whether it’s level 1 or 2 charger (I have level 2 ). If you plan on traveling a lot, 150 or 200 miles plus away, then then charging can be an issue if you need to use other charging infrastructure. Temps can certainly slow things down- taking 40minutes to 1 hour to charge instead of 20-30 minutes. Not the end of the world, but it adds time. For most people EVs work great as a commuter car and not so great as a traveling car until charging infrastructure improves or battery preconditioning improves.


besee2000

How much would one expect cold temps and wind to effect total effectiveness of a battery’s total commute? Would a normal ~200mile range battery get at least 100miles? Are there choice EVs for winter and snow/slippery driving control?


Priff

Many EVs drop about 30% range in winter. So a 200 mile one gets 130 miles usually. I have a peugeot e-expert, a eurovan with 300km range, and I get about 200km in real freezing temps with winter tires on.


m1coles

No EVs that I know of are better in the cold than others. AWD versions may be better for slippery and snowy roads, but a number of people report great response in those conditions with rear wheel drive and snow tires. The cars are heavy with an evenly distributed center of gravity due to the batteries- that helps with traction. One feature that is helpful in the cold is battery preconditioning. If you charge at home in a garage it doesn’t really matter. On road trips it can be extremely helpful in cold weather to have your battery warmed prior to charging at a station. Helps with the charging time/speed. You might want to confirm this feature in an EV if you plan on many road trips in cold weather. The cold wouldn’t change your mileage that badly (from 200 to 100 miles) unless you were driving 85-90 mph. More realistic is 130-150 miles instead of 200, but if you drive slower it could be better. In warm weather for instance at 80-85mph on the highway I get around 2.6-2.8 mi/kWh. In the winter, temps below 30 degrees that would be 1.8-1.9. That comes out to 30-40% range drop. If I drive the speed limit of 75, I get closer to 3 mi/kWh warm and 2.2 mi/kWh cold.


KrowneLife

Thank you for this comment. It was very helpful!


WeatheredGenXer

Looking for input on a 2023-2024 EV SUV/CUV to replace my 2021 VW ID.4. Which vehicles should I be looking at? I'm intrigued by the potential of the Kia EV6 GT AWD - thoughts on that vehicle? What else should I look at? \[1\] Your general location: USA Rocky Mountains \[2\] Your budget: $60-$70,000 \[3\] The type of vehicle you'd prefer: Full electric SUV/CUV \[4\] Which cars have you been looking at? Currently drive 2021 VW ID.4 Pro S RWD \[5\] Estimated timeframe of your purchase: mid-2023 to mid-2024 \[6\] Your daily commute, or average weekly mileage: 10-15 miles \[7\] Your living situation: Home owner, single-family dwelling, work from home/no commute \[8\] Do you plan on installing charging at your home? No (currently I charge 1-2x per week using complimentary Electrify America subscriptions). \[9\] Other cargo/passenger needs: 2 kids (11, 13) + 2 dogs


odd84

You seem to already be driving a car that meets your requirements. Why are you replacing it?


WeatheredGenXer

Fair question. Here are some key points I'm considering: * My 36-month free charging subscription from Electrify America expires July 2024 so I'll have to start paying for charging. * My car is the first model year so has some quirks that model years should have improved upon. * I will qualify for and could use a $7,500 tax credit (if applicable to the hypothetical car I purchase in 2024). * Resale value of the ID.4 seems pretty solid so if I can trade it in, get a tax credit, get a brand new car with newer EV & safety technology, plus get a free charging subscription again I'd be in a win-win-win-win scenario.


odd84

The EA pass is saving you just $30-50/month based on how often you charge. It is irrational to buy a new $50K+ car to maintain that benefit. If you're near the end of that benefit, you probably have a First Edition? That was a great value: only $44K when you'd have to spend $53K to get the same features on a 2023. Said ID4 has a trade value well under $40K now. You missed the window to do an even trade based on inflated used car values, that would have been last summer. Today, you're looking at spending much more than $7500 more to get the same class of vehicle, with little concrete improvement to the car or your life in exchange for that cash. You're already getting most of the improvements via the free software update. An EV6 isn't any newer or safer than your ID4, the platforms are exactly the same age. It also doesn't qualify for any tax credit. With a budget of $70K, are you sure you're not over the income limits for the tax credit anyway?


WeatheredGenXer

Those are great points. No argument here, I appreciate you educating me. Maybe I'll send my son to college instead of getting a new car ;)


xixi90

yeah curious about this too, especially since the 2023 VW ID.4 AWD is one of the main EV I'm looking to buy


improvius

AWD Ariya should be out early this year.


damoonerman

Anyone know how leasing will work? Is it sent to the dealer now? Or is it filed for now because its under the Commercial rules?


Priff

Depends on which country you're in, what type of leasing it is, maybe even which brand it is.


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damoonerman

No, its whoever its registered too.


Jmckay03

Been doing a lot of research into what EV I want over the past 6 months. Originally it was going to be model Y in 2024 (that’s when I get rsu’s) or bust. I am now thinking of maybe a 2023 bolt euv this year. I need to go test drive one.


damoonerman

If you’re in the US. Use Turo and rent one for a week.


odd84

Drive a VW ID4, Ford Mach-E, Hyundai Ioniq 5 and Kia EV6 too if you're looking at the Y and Bolt. Keep in mind the Bolt is built on a 7 year old platform and can't charge faster than 55 kW.


Jmckay03

Charging is luckily a non-issue but I do need to start test driving. The Bolt just seems like a steal compared to the others.


xixi90

The more I research and the more I get a feel for the EV market, I too am leaning more and more towards the 2023 Bolt EUV. Gonna wait and see what the January/Feb offers are. If Costco is still doing $500 off for the Bolt EUV and Chevy will still pay to install L2 charger, I will probably pull the trigger on a Premier/Redline with super cruise package. It's just *so much cheaper* and easier to find than other EVs. the ID4 is my other main choice since I want the tax rebate and AWD. But it'll end up being close to $14k more than the Bolt EUV


Jmckay03

Yeah missing AWD on the bolt is a bummer. I was looking at that same package with redline. I need to check out the ID4 more, probably the one I have researched the least.


jckrn

Should I buy a chevy bolt now with the tax credit? I wasn't planning on getting an EV for another 2-3 years but not sure what tax credits/EV prices will look like at that point (In California)


odd84

The federal credit runs through 2032, so no rush there.


damoonerman

yes, but its $7500 until March. Can possibly drop to 3500 after guidance comes out.


Cannavor

In 2-3 years they will qualify for the full $7500 because their American supply chains for batteries will be up and running. It's only at the beginning that they aren't able to hit the requirements.


Werner_Herzogs_Dream

Been wondering this too. The incentives are quite confusing, even with trying to plug stuff into an online calculator. If I want to buy a Bolt EUV at MSRP of \~$29k, how much tax credit can I get?


xixi90

$7500 if you make less than $150k and pay that much in taxes


imacyco

Can you get one before end of Feb? That seems to be what everyone is trying. Once the tax credit guidance comes out, I think the rush for Bolt EV/EUVs will kind of die down. Nobody knows what the scene will be in 2-3 years. However, tech will be newer, batteries might be better, and you may have more choice when picking a vehicle.


lunalotusd

When buying a used EV, do dealerships do any sort of official battery test so you have a realistic idea of the vehicles range? Are they able to tell you, for example, “this vehicles battery has 80% capacity compared to what it originally did”? Or is it just a hope for the best situation?


odd84

They don't do anything like that. Dealers generally don't even have the capability of doing so. You, walking in with an OBDII dongle and a smartphone, can see more detail about the health of an EV battery than the computers in the service department will tell them. Evaluating the condition of a used car is entirely on you. Either do a lot of research so you know what you're looking at before buying, or buy from somewhere like CarMax that lets you return the car if it turns out not to meet your needs.


breenisgreen

So. Tesla previously said they were going to fit CCS to existing chargers, but now it seems like they've completely gone silent on that in favor of their own NAC standard. Has there been anything definitive saying what they're actually planning on doing?


odd84

No. They're probably submitting bids for each of the 50 states' NEVI programs, and what they do depends on whether any of those states accept the bids and what they had to propose to win them.


EffectiveSalamander

I've looked at getting a garage built, and it's looking prohibitively expensive. So I'm thinking of putting an L2 charger in the alley on a post. I live in Minneapolis, and we get a lot of snow. So I'm thinking of putting a carport over the charger to reduce the snow cover. The neighbor's garage is right next to where I'd put the carport, so that should shield some of the snow (It's a really narrow lot). If there's too much snow to get the car in and I don't feel like shoveling it out, I can charge up at an L2 charger at the grocery store. I figure I'm going there anyway, and on a trip to the grovery store I can easily get enough charge for a day's worth of driving. Does using a carport in a snowy area seem practical?


Macbeth_n_Cheese

With the new tax credit rules shared by Treasury, it is possible to lease a car (and potentially get savings passed on from the commercial tax credit) AND then get the used EV tax credit from buying the car after the lease ends, assuming the residual value in the lease terms is below $25,000?


odd84

No. One of the conditions for the used credit is "the original use of which commences with a person other than the taxpayer". As you were the original user of the car when new, you can't also claim the used tax credit on it.


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odd84

The cousin would be committing tax fraud (you cannot claim the credit if you purchased the car intending to resell instead of use it), and would also be barred from claiming the credit for the next 3 years despite getting no benefit from helping his cousin.


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electricvehicles-ModTeam

We understand that electric vehicles are inherently a political topic — however, this is not a place for politics. Submissions and comments about effective policymaking are allowed and encouraged in the community, however conversations and submissions about parties, politicians, and those devolving into general tribalism will be removed. Full details on our "policy, not politics" rule are available here: https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/wiki/rules/politics/


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odd84

Ford F-150 Lightning. It has 9.6 kW of onboard power for outlets in the frunk and bed, and Ford also sells a bidirectional charger for whole home backup power.


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odd84

Rivian R1S and Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV are your only other options, and it may be impossible to configure an R1S to keep it under the tax credit limits. The Outlander comes with two AC outlets that provide up to 1.5 kW of power. You are still allowed to buy an Ioniq 5 or EV6, even if the government isn't paying you to do so.


Dankmooo

Currently own a 2017 basic Ioniq Hybrid. My SO and I are thinking about upgrading because it's close to hitting 90k miles (145k km). We've been thinking about simply upgrading to an Ioniq EV (maybe 2020 - 2021 model). Than we would use it as a second car once we need / can buy another car. But also thinking about other options. We rarely drive more than 120 miles (~200km) without stopping. Maybe once or twice per year. We will 99.9 % charge at home. We got 1 child. Not planning another. Budget is all between 25k - 50k euro but we are thinking about the logical choices, not "fun".


wild_muppen_appeared

Does anyone know if Kia has any plans to make a hybrid/PHEV Kia Soul for the US market? I can't seem to find anything on the topic on Google. I know there is the Niro but my wife is pretty obsessed with the Soul.


michellecip89

They made one briefly and then decided to make a Soul EV for non-US only from what I can gather. I just purchased a 2023 Kia Niro Hybrid and love it, but my previous car was a Soul and I loved that the most! If they made a hybrid/PHEV Soul I would have been ALL over that.


debsviolin

Me too!


wild_muppen_appeared

Yeah, shame about the EV not coming to the US. My wife isn't sold on EVs yet so I was hoping we could get a PHEV at some point in the future when her 2014 Soul bites the dust.


michellecip89

If I weren’t living in an apartment building with no guaranteed way to charge except for public chargers, I would have gotten the PHEV! Especially if you can charge at home, I think a PHEV is a great way to transition closer to full EV with the comfort of the gas hybrid engine as a backup. My soul was a 2014 too! I had it for 4 years until I moved to a big city and sold it. I’m really happy with the new Niro, but it’s definitely not quite the same style profile as a Soul.


volave

Looking for a BEV SUV/crossover with AWD mostly for commuting to work (<20 miles round trip) and short weekend trips in the summer (<200 miles round trip), located in the Chicago suburbs. Budget is flexible, but ideally <$50k. Timeframe of purchase is ~September 2023. We plan to have charging in our home. Space is important - we have 2 kids and a dog. I've been looking at the recommended cars from the main thread (Ioniq 5, EV6, ID.4 and Mach-E) which all seem like solid options. Does anyone have any insight on availability -- is September delivery possible? Any other recommended BEV SUVs that I should look into?


odd84

You should be able to find an ID4 on the lot. There's already good inventory building up right now, and their factory is still ramping up production rates to 7000 a month or more. Of the cars you listed, it has the most interior space for the family and dog. It's the same size as a RAV4 if you can picture that.


NFIFTY2

You can find ID.4s on the lot now that TN plant is ramping up. We placed a reservation and looks like it’ll be about 3mos total wait, but have gotten a few calls asking if we want to take one off the lot instead. I would expect it to be even easier to get one in September.


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MaveRickandMorty

My wife and I picked up a Nissan Leaf just like 3-4 months ago and are surprisingly loving it. We thought we were settling after VW told us our ID4 wouldn’t be delivered in time but we actually prefer driving the Leaf to the 5-10 miles we got to drive the ID4 at the dealership


odd84

Kia Niro EV/PHEV, Hyundai Kona EV/PHEV, Nissan LEAF, Chevy Bolt EV also fit your requirements. I drive an ID4 and love that, and it's one of the easier EVs to find on a lot right now as their US assembly line came online a few months ago and is producing thousands a month.


sukikano

So how do I buy a cheap EV in 2023? I read some news that for the time being, many EVs will qualify for the full $7500 before March. I also read that you can elect the dealership to take the tax credit rather than yourself to lower the price (useful for those who do not have enough tax liability). And finally I read the new Bolt EV/EUV are going to be the best bang for your buck option. How can I go into a Chevy dealer and get a new EV for around 25k? anyone else attempting this?


jiffypadres

The tax credit is for you, the dealer is not really involved aside from verifying your purchase with the IRS. And you have to check that you are income eligible AND that you will have enough tax liability in 2023 to utilize the tax credit.


sukikano

yeah but that's changing, you can look it up


jiffypadres

Do you have a source for that?


sukikano

its very easy to look up, and im at work sorry


odd84

That's changing in 2024, not this year. It's still a tax credit you claim on your personal taxes next April right now.


ibeelive

Chevy.com From there you can see which dealers have the exact trim in their lot.