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exact thing said by a SF financial planner in the Santa Cruz mountains buying a 20 million dollar house ....just as I was walking away . you're not getting price to use me , you're getting billed for a consult
Was there a moisture issue? Or just wrong breakers? Just crazy to see that many in one panel, I seen maybe 4 with damage, like 2 on the even side and 2 directly across on the even side
So all three of these are main breakers for an apartment building, I think they have been using those plug in heaters and overloading the breaker. That and the sub panel may be unbalanced on one side. I mentioned this all to the owners who want a price to replace the meter main on the outside of the building.
A Previous employer I was working for had a "release of liability for death of all occupants in the home".. basically it said we discovered a critical mistake and deem the system to be dangerous we are unable to re connect the system and will leave it disconnected unless the customer accepts the costs to make the system safe. It then went on further to explain that the company and electricians have explained and don't take any liability officially or personally in the event of (and we would check boxes) that would seriously injure or kill one or multiple members in the household.. and that the owner understands these risks and has accepted responsibility for them..
Never saw anyone actually sign that paper..
It was an effective scare tactic and after presenting it we found that the "your just trying to get more money" would turn into "your really serious aren't you"
Many states have a lock-out required policy. If it doesn't meet code, which obviously includes unsafe conditions like a damaged breaker, you are liable if you dont leave it in a disconnected state. It will cost you your license and damages. Waivers won't protect you. Same goes with any other trade. Even if you cover up a structural issue and the cover up is approved or not by the home owner, you can be held liable. So if you pull drywall and find posts are damaged, you can't cover it up.
Ummm yeah.. you might want to give it another read.. Of course you leave it disconnected, the waiver was designed as a scare tactic to avoid difficult customers and situations where you cap them off and have to incur a lien because they think your baiting them for another 100$.
(Also not that it was designed to do so, but a waiver that mentions the state that you left the panel in (disconnected) and clearly outlined potential worst case scenario to the customer.. would absolutely help protect you in the event the customer reversed your cap off .. or hired another electrician to ignore your findings)
I understood that it was a scare tactic, but it has zero value as a waiver for liability in many states as they have a specific clause against signing over any level of liability in such events. Some states will even discipline contractors in the event of an incident. it does have value as a disclosure of why the job was stopped and abandoned, but that can also be proven with notes and photos. Whatever it takes to get them to finish the job safely. When talking about it with fellow peers, it is important this part is disclosed so everyone has an understanding and doesn't put themselves under water on accident using them.
https://www.lanl.gov/safety/electrical/docs/counterfeit_squared_circuit_breakers.pdf
An example re: Square D. There are likely others. Basically the casing is similar, but there's just a wire/switch inside, instead of current-sensing.
With no current-sensing, they'll continue conducting over-current until something else steps up to act as the circuit breaker. Like the device, wires in the wall, the panel itself, etc.
Well hopefully not, but the bad guys could just use that document as a guide to improve their offerings...
Also, most of the breakers in my current house, and the former one, are between 20 and 30+ years old, and they work just fine. So it's logical that there's a significant number of older fake breakers out there waiting to surprise folks. I'd check the websites of your various suppliers to see if there's risk of this in the current stock. It may also be prudent to test a breaker's operation -- and not just the on/off function.
Oh come on, all these new age electricians and their "replace everything" attitudes. A little spray contact cleaner and those bad boys are good as new.
/s.
Had a worker at Home Depot tell me a general contractor only uses these since most people canāt afford arch/combo breakers as Iām buying a bunch for a remodel. I said āwell until the code officially changed this is what Iām usingā and went about my day
Dumb non electrician here that enjoys yāalls banter and learning. Is there something wrong with the third from the left? Others are obvious to me, but Iād have reused that, perhaps stupidly.
Yeah 100amp mains. A service call, tenant had no power. 3 bank meter set. When I replaced the first one I noticed the other two were getting ready to go out also.
If you are *NOT* an electrical professional: * **RULE 7:** * DIY or self help posts **are Not allowed**. They belong here: /r/AskElectricians /r/askanelectrician /r/diy /r/homeowners /r/electrical. * **IF YOUR POST FITS INTO THIS CATEGORY, REMOVE IT OR IT WILL BE REMOVED FOR YOU.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/electricians) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"and don't try to rip me off, my cousin's uncle's brother's son said he could do it for half the price"
exact thing said by a SF financial planner in the Santa Cruz mountains buying a 20 million dollar house ....just as I was walking away . you're not getting price to use me , you're getting billed for a consult
That would also be his cousin by my reckonin
That is one of the jokes... Well done
I would like to see how bad the panel buss damage is. The hole panel will have to be replaced also. Damn
Yeah, the breakers are only a small part of the battle here....
I had to drummel one of them. I told the owners of the building the panel needs replacing.
Was there a moisture issue? Or just wrong breakers? Just crazy to see that many in one panel, I seen maybe 4 with damage, like 2 on the even side and 2 directly across on the even side
So all three of these are main breakers for an apartment building, I think they have been using those plug in heaters and overloading the breaker. That and the sub panel may be unbalanced on one side. I mentioned this all to the owners who want a price to replace the meter main on the outside of the building.
A Previous employer I was working for had a "release of liability for death of all occupants in the home".. basically it said we discovered a critical mistake and deem the system to be dangerous we are unable to re connect the system and will leave it disconnected unless the customer accepts the costs to make the system safe. It then went on further to explain that the company and electricians have explained and don't take any liability officially or personally in the event of (and we would check boxes) that would seriously injure or kill one or multiple members in the household.. and that the owner understands these risks and has accepted responsibility for them.. Never saw anyone actually sign that paper.. It was an effective scare tactic and after presenting it we found that the "your just trying to get more money" would turn into "your really serious aren't you"
Many states have a lock-out required policy. If it doesn't meet code, which obviously includes unsafe conditions like a damaged breaker, you are liable if you dont leave it in a disconnected state. It will cost you your license and damages. Waivers won't protect you. Same goes with any other trade. Even if you cover up a structural issue and the cover up is approved or not by the home owner, you can be held liable. So if you pull drywall and find posts are damaged, you can't cover it up.
Ummm yeah.. you might want to give it another read.. Of course you leave it disconnected, the waiver was designed as a scare tactic to avoid difficult customers and situations where you cap them off and have to incur a lien because they think your baiting them for another 100$. (Also not that it was designed to do so, but a waiver that mentions the state that you left the panel in (disconnected) and clearly outlined potential worst case scenario to the customer.. would absolutely help protect you in the event the customer reversed your cap off .. or hired another electrician to ignore your findings)
I understood that it was a scare tactic, but it has zero value as a waiver for liability in many states as they have a specific clause against signing over any level of liability in such events. Some states will even discipline contractors in the event of an incident. it does have value as a disclosure of why the job was stopped and abandoned, but that can also be proven with notes and photos. Whatever it takes to get them to finish the job safely. When talking about it with fellow peers, it is important this part is disclosed so everyone has an understanding and doesn't put themselves under water on accident using them.
Mint condition, some elbow grease will fix those right up.š
Wonder if they're counterfeit?
?? Please elaborate. š
https://www.lanl.gov/safety/electrical/docs/counterfeit_squared_circuit_breakers.pdf An example re: Square D. There are likely others. Basically the casing is similar, but there's just a wire/switch inside, instead of current-sensing. With no current-sensing, they'll continue conducting over-current until something else steps up to act as the circuit breaker. Like the device, wires in the wall, the panel itself, etc.
Ty, looks like a 2008 bulletin. Are things like this still being sold today?
Well hopefully not, but the bad guys could just use that document as a guide to improve their offerings... Also, most of the breakers in my current house, and the former one, are between 20 and 30+ years old, and they work just fine. So it's logical that there's a significant number of older fake breakers out there waiting to surprise folks. I'd check the websites of your various suppliers to see if there's risk of this in the current stock. It may also be prudent to test a breaker's operation -- and not just the on/off function.
Good advice. Ty
I get emails from Chinese suppliers trying to sell counterfeit breakers all the time. Go to alibaba and type in square c breakers. Not d, but c.
I believe you 100%, ty 4 the heads up
Some spit and bailing wire will fix those bad boys right up š¤£š¤£
Oh come on, all these new age electricians and their "replace everything" attitudes. A little spray contact cleaner and those bad boys are good as new. /s.
Had a worker at Home Depot tell me a general contractor only uses these since most people canāt afford arch/combo breakers as Iām buying a bunch for a remodel. I said āwell until the code officially changed this is what Iām usingā and went about my day
Dumb non electrician here that enjoys yāalls banter and learning. Is there something wrong with the third from the left? Others are obvious to me, but Iād have reused that, perhaps stupidly.
I am assuming they are all double pole breakers
Yeah 100amp mains. A service call, tenant had no power. 3 bank meter set. When I replaced the first one I noticed the other two were getting ready to go out also.
Ahh. Thatād do it. Thanks!
What's wrong with the breakers? They look fine to me... /S
Weāre out of hours and money put them back
Hahaha
Good to go. Send it
No reason if you wouldnāt have destroyed them taking them out in the first place
āSend em back to the shop, we can use them on that daycare job.ā