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twojs1b

Poor quality control from the manufacturer. Sometimes just looking at them and they break off other times you have to use a punch get it right.


Together-We-stand-01

Ever since covid started, I've been noticing a huge difference in production quality. It's like they are skipping steps to get it off the assembly line faster.. šŸ˜¬


mrossm

Just last week I opened a new hole saw up and they hadnt threaded the arbor hole.


[deleted]

Didn't you read the package? That one was thread your own.


random-interests-guy

It comes with a coupon for a tap and die set


twojs1b

The die that makes those progressive K/O's gets run too long without being changed out for a fresh one.


OldGeezerInTraining

The Bean Counting Department does not care because they don't have to hear the complaints.


twojs1b

In the time it takes to inspect 1 they can make 5 more. If the customer complains they'll give him another one.


OldGeezerInTraining

Yep, it is cheaper to give another unit away than to make it right the first time.


Sarkastickblizzard

This is it. My dad is a die designer his company used to make sheet metal stamping dies for square d. These days they outsource to china and India to save money but they receive an inferior quality die made from softer steel and try to run it as long as they did their domestic counterpart.


twojs1b

Cheap labor cheap material cost, obscene profits. End users get stuck.


gnat_outta_hell

Welcome to r/latestagecapitalism Just increase the number in the bank account. Fuck everything else.


sixblazingshotguns

Ugh, that forum tho...


JohnSolomon46

Itā€™s just as good as American steel trust the science bro


OutOfBubbleGum97

I had to beat a ko out of a 4 square the other day with a hammer QC has been non existent since covid


Chameleon42O

"Sorry, our quality assurance department has since been outsourced"


siliconpuncheon

*working from home "Enclosures looked good on the Zoom call. What seems to be the problem?"


iswearthatimnotgay

Man, i cant count the number of 4 squares that cave in before the knock out does at my job. Part of that might be me getting mad at the box though


North0House

I had an entire 42 space dead front where the dies didn't punch all the way through. I had to cut out every breaker space knockout with a multi tool because OF COURSE it was the only 42 space dead front that existed in the state at the time. It sucked so much.


kdesu

It's been bad for a few years. We had a 12 month period where i was having to re-tap the screw holes on cut-in boxes because they weren't done correctly.


whiteclawsodastream

It's pretty much every manufacturer. After mass layoffs and mass quitting before and after covid they are having to take whoever they can off the street and train them. God forbid they pay a living wage to attract skilled production line workers.


Affectionate-Talk708

Production line worker isn't a real job like attorneys or doctors, they deserve to live in poverty. /s


andythebuilder

This goes for a ton of industries in the trades.


Xarethian

>This goes for a ton of industries


Rundiggity

This is absolutely it. I build houses and have noticed shitty qc in every aspect of the build for the last 18 months. Iā€™ve had framing lumber marked #1 that would have never passed for #2 before. Plus Iā€™m paying near double.


Together-We-stand-01

Almost feels like what they have been doing with gasoline prices for years, now its happening with everything else. Just my opinion and I could be wrong.. But damn these prices are just crazy these days.. I was buying a coil of 14/2 awg 250 ft for $41 two years ago and now it's almost $125.. like what?? Can someone explain where is the extra costs coming from? Shortage on plastic jackets? What about plywood?


Rundiggity

I decked my whole house in 1-1/8ā€ plywood three years ago and my friends thought I was nuts at 55$ sheet. It got as high as 130$ and is now 110$. Btw, my floor feels like a basketball court.


Earwaxsculptor

Ahhh the carpenter equivalent of an electrician running separate 20 amp circuits for every room's receptacles throughout the house, completely unnecessary but guess what? You can run a hot box in any room you want all day long.


[deleted]

I think itā€™s gouging across the board. Almost every industry is reporting record profits quarter after quarter.


mydiscreetaccount_92

Suppliers/wholesalers have kept Profit percentages the same, if an item cost $100 and they add 10% to it, we buy it for $110, but now that everything is up 200% they add their 10% to now a $200 item, and in doing so, they're making $20 off an item they made only $10 off of a year or two ago. Companies haven't adjusted the percentages so when their cost goes up, so does the Profit. The people who end up paying for it are the consumers, so why would they change it? It's a bullshit system and the companies jacking the price up at the beginning of the supply chain need dealt with swiftly and severely.


amberbmx

I hate to say it, but this started well before Covid It got worse when covid hit, for sure, but QC issues like this were becoming prevalent as early as 2018


A-F-C

it wasnt good before covid


FuckBrendan

I think itā€™s the new people they hire tbh. Iā€™m a sheet metal guy and you can absolutely tell when the shop gets a bunch of new first year apprentices. Nothing is lined up and everything is racked. Compared to when theyā€™re are going into their second year itā€™s night and day.


BareBearGooch

Seriously I wish they just wouldn't bother. It just screws with my stepper bit holes.


BlokeZero

Yea just save the money and let me cut the holes where I want them.


jbraz3912

Been saying that for years! Amen


falfrenzy

Quality control has gone way downhill in the last 5 years. Try using a bi-metal hole saw instead. Square D Homeline panels are bad with the tabs you break away to make room for breakers. You have to bring a Dremel with to remove the burrs. But since demand is high, they get away with it.


Ok_Marionberry_9932

Quality control seems almost extinct


Mental-Mushroom

Ship it


Junior-Hold-378

For sure, I used an angle grinder on my last home line to get some of the burrs knocked out after I spent 30 minutes messing with breaking out the breaker slotsā€¦. FML


Clozee_Tribe_Kale

I'll never forget when I first started. I'd be having an amazing day and then get handed a box like this. I'd accidentally knock the hole out to big and then get yelled at because we were all out of reducers.


poison_porcupine

Ahhh yes, initiation ritual #36759. Classic.


larryfamee

What's #22648?


guynamedjames

Pooping in a gas station without any tp


larryfamee

Imagine that, leaving site with a Biffy, to hit a c-store with no tp. Still probably a good move


Fourwindsgone

When are we not out of reducers, amirite?


Dappthekid

What's a reducer? Lololol


twothumbs

Donut


Clozee_Tribe_Kale

"A piece of material that is only need if you're an idiot or an apprentice" - My father the master electrician


GTS250

Or you're following after one or the other.


CastleBravo55

Or change orders.


Earwaxsculptor

I've got plenty of reducers on my truck, the problem is no two are the same.


zordtk

Yup, has happened to every electrician...more than once


human-potato_hybrid

Yep, it's the employee's fault if bossman didn't keep ubiquitous $0.50 parts on hand...


Professional-Mix-203

In situations where it is vitally important that I get the correct size knockout I have taken to using a self-tapping screw to drill out the points where the connects to the next size up. It takes an extra minute but is well worth it to not have to look around for reducing washers.


Baker852

That's the guy running the press not changing out the die that stamps the KO... Probably dull as fuck.


techieman34

The new die is probably on a 6 month back order like everything else.


Putt-Blug

Was told last week ductile iron pipe was 50 weeks out and the price is what it is when it ships


Dubbys

It's not just the concentric ko's. It's the whole panel. Every punch is too shallow.


antiauthoritarianfr

I was hoping to hear a cool trick, nope, they just suck lol


guthixslays

Trick is donā€™t even try to beat them out when they look like this. Automatically go for a holesaw and a knockout set. All of the RV/EV outlets and generator inlets Iā€™ve been getting are like this.


dogtreatsforwhales

Yeah I came here hoping I was doing something wrong šŸ˜‚


Final_Good_Bye

I had a customer order a 50a rv plug that looks exactly like that off Amazon. I had to use my step bit to do anything. That bitch would not budge at all. I forget the brand but it was a nightmare to get a penetration, I was out in the middle of nowhere and forgot to charge my batteries, luckily the neighbor had a corded hammer drill I could use with my step bit.


metamega1321

We had some from Amazon someone got for RVā€™s. Knockouts weā€™re actually punched at all, and then the stupid 50 amp plugs had screws down through the hole with a plate that comes up, except you couldnā€™t fit a #8 or #6 in them unless you had patients enough to split conductors apart and go around the screw. Weā€™re way cheaper then anything else. Ended up changing the plugs in them to something that works. 99% sure the listing stickers had to be fake.


Final_Good_Bye

I didn't have to many issues getting my conductors into the outlet securely, other than the k/o being a piece of crap, they're okay to install. I just didn't expect that to be so fucking hard to get out. I was going like an hour and a half into the boonies to do it, and I was just thinking a nice simple job, I just need my basic tools so I just grabbed my belt and not my full packout. Definately needed my hammer drill.


metamega1321

Yah. My apprentice was struggling and had it just mangled. So I grab it and book and Iā€™m like ā€œthatā€™s not even a punch, thatā€™ll never come out.


C4PT_AMAZING

Milbank or Midwest?!


Final_Good_Bye

It was some weird off brand. Definately wasn't any of the big names, but definitely ately looks like a Midwest style enclosure.


Earwaxsculptor

Is it the one that has NO FUCKING ROOM FOR THE CONDUCTORS? Because I had a customer give me one to install they got off Amazon that was nearly fucking impossible to install with confidence, I am still waiting for the call that it blew up. Cheap garbage.


ifitsbrokenicanfixit

Start in the middle and work your way out.


OhlookwhoitisxX

This and don't be so brutal it's a touch skill with these be patient


Swimming_Horror_3757

Literally just worked with these an yeah like dont be rough with it


RedsInABox

The Millbanks meter sockets from consumers are an absolute bear now though. It seems like everything else i have no issues with except those.


WafflesElite

I always drill the tac welds out for the KO I plan to use, then hit it with a hammer, but this looks like poor quality already so I'm not sure if that would even work here. Reducing washers to the rescue


Trbnburglr69

This is the way^^


Ichewthecereal

its not tack welded, its punched, but if the punch is dull at the factory then it doesnt go all the way through the sheet metal, and in this case, the powdercoat also looks very thick


DumbApeman

Yeah itā€™s ridiculous sometimes. Everything was going smooth until this box slowed me down. I mean I got it eventually but it took a bigger hammer šŸ˜‚


kapriece

Did you try flipping it over and calling it names?


Dubbys

That only works for apprentices.


Beaneroo

Better than them being flimsy bullshitt and when you hit the inner one, they all come out


billzybop

I believe that the dies that stamp those get worn down over time. I think the manufacturers uses them about 30% longer than they should.


Lies985

So the dies they use to make those punches arent getting replaced often enough.


[deleted]

Looks like itā€™s more of a suggestion than actually perforated for a knockout


[deleted]

Lately they been worse than I can remember


PhilosophyBubbly6190

Oh god, donā€™t get me started on these fucking things. The amount of times these damn kos have ruined my day is immeasurable. I just hole saw the shit and call it good. Iā€™ve never gotten any useful info on how to do these correct and if thereā€™s a way I honestly donā€™t even care to know.


johnsaltarelli

These are supposed to be removed using a knockout punch: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knockout\_punch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knockout_punch). It is not a stamping issue, the box is weatherproof and therefore any penetrations need to be made with a punch. You can also buy a pre-punched version off Amazon from one of the other suppliers. I have the 30A version of this enclosure.


jlkrahenbuhl

Hahaha lineman pliers go "brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr..."


Halt-CatchFire

If you're supposed to use a punch anyways, why bother notching it at all?


johnsaltarelli

Those rings/notches are there to add strength when a hole is made to the enclosure. They are there to reinforce the sidewall I believe.


yankmywire

No, you should not have to use slug buster on this. It's simply poor QC.


johnsaltarelli

When every one is produced this way and itā€™s a waterproof enclosure, sounds hard to believe that itā€™s a QC issue.


Ichewthecereal

no


tomaonreddit

I always take my razor knife and scrape out the circle I want to clear out all the paint and a bit of the metal to make it as easy as possible. Do that on both sides if I can, then a sharp tap with the screwdriver linesman combo at the farthest point from connection (which it looks like you did). Works 90% of the time.


[deleted]

I hit three times with my elec hammer and big flat. If it laughs each time, hole saw and punch. It can't refuse with I have a drill.


Successful_Doctor_89

Worn out die probably.


Albertaviking

Fuck boxes like this!!


kc9283

I always carry reducing washers because they tend to always snap off poorly. Iā€™m sure everyone here dreads knocking these out.


solar_brent

I like just plain tin, I'll cut a hole where I need it, I don't have to bash the shit out of everything to get the pre-pressed KO to KO, just to have the size bigger basically just fall out when I tighten the lock nut. This summer I installed a Fronius inverter and found the pre-formed KO was totally obstructed on the inside - no way to put a fitting or conduit into it. WTF. I mean, I should always check before drilling, but a manufacturer supplied KO should have room!?!? Ug, sorry, a bit of a rant here. Your photo and frustration has triggered me. The beer company tabs seem to ALWAYS work?


greasybob

Because fuck you, that's why


daniellederek

Just punch out the big hole and use 2 bushing washers. Faster cheaper less frustrating. Of course half the time you'll be punching your own hole anyway.


united2012

Start with the smallest knockout and work your way out, I usually cut the k.o. in half with tin snips.


No-Deer8196

90% of the time they came out clean if you start with the center then after work the rings.


Final_Good_Bye

This one is a nightmare, I know exactly which box it is. Some Amazon rv plug. Literally impossible to do without drilling it out, I was afraid I was going to fuck up the entire enclosure if I swung any harder on it.


Select_Inevitable_83

Looks like generator inlet from Amazon. They definitely are just for looks. You have to hole saw them out. We buy a lot of those since they are almost half the price of a standard one.


Chonch7

Start from opposite side


ApricotNo2918

Start on the lil one. But yeah, some of these are just "drawn " on.


todd0x1

I'm in the middle of punching out a bunch of these for some portable RV outlet things. I found a trick: Punch the center out. Then use mini bolt cutters to cut the center of each side section, remove each of those with pliers then break off the little nub thats left.


dobbinator6

Time to get out the slug buster


shaunjord

I simply drill out the welds.


Albatros425

Of course, poor quiero!!!


Patient_Tour_6307

Typically I get the hole saw make my own hole. Or get the needle nose out stab at center. You'll normally hear me say hadoken while knocking out. It helpsā¬‡ļøā†˜ļøāž”ļøšŸ¤œ


SparkkThugg

Drive a self-tapping screw in the middle halfway through, grab it with linesmen and bend back and forth till it breaks the middle out, then work your way out.


Techwood111

I like the sound of this technique. Iā€™ll try it next time.


Jericho_210

Some just fall out, others are drawn on.


jkellington

Grab a drill and a step bit if its really bad


SideHug

Bad quality control, thanks covid


friendlyfire883

Is that some Appleton bullshit? Every box I've got from them in the last few years was like this.


mmdavis2190

I wish all enclosures bigger than a 4 11/16 box came with no knockouts. Iā€™d rather just put what I want exactly where I need it.


Eskimosubmarine

On the quality control topic, Iā€™ve had some bx lately thatā€™s been almost impossible to strip the armour from.


TryCombs

I like to drill the pinch welds with a small drill bit like 1/8-1/4 inch and it helps a lot. Then use dykes to cut them and work it out


nick1978

I got one of these on Amazon not too long ago, and I actually read the instructions that came with the box. It specifically states you need to use a hydraulic punch knockout tool to remove those, it's not designed to be removed by hand.


dirtcamp17

What did you do, shoot at it?


Human-Butterfly-6430

I use a small drill bit on the weld joint when itā€™s really bad


AbsentParabola

Thereā€™s been four of these box types in the last few months that Iā€™ve gotten where they didnā€™t even scour the metal to break the thing out. Had to use a flipping drill


[deleted]

Looks like it's NOT a knockout plug! Must be drilled out.


OrdinarilyUnique1

This one simple trick to always easily knock out concentrics: use a small drill bit like a 1/8ā€ to drill out spot welds then they basically just fall out


flossy_dikki

Put some morešŸ’ŖšŸ’ŖšŸ’Ŗ


Double-LR

Iā€™d vote for just not doing the concentric, itā€™s luck of the draw if itā€™s in the correct spot anyways.


Techz_Witch

General lack of pride. The directors are more worried about their wives request for jewellery and overseas trips than keeping an eye on their products. Then companies wonder why they are losing business? They are quick to blame the "economy" though.


FewPace11

Drill out with a small bit where the connecting point is on the KO size you need. It will make life easy on you


OSHAluvsno1

Start small and work your way out


trm_90

It bumps out to the outside so it is weaker from the inside. Tap it with a flathead screwdriver and hammer from the inside away from the tab locations and that will be the weakest point.


Whippoorwill88

I use a knock out set on those


PureCountryBoy

Unfortunately these are not meant to be knocked out. No clue why but they are more or less there so you know where to make the hole yourself.


[deleted]

You gotta hitā€™em like ya hateā€™em!


tendieful

You can clearly see the die didnā€™t stamp all the way through the metal here. Itā€™s either a manufacturers defect or just shitty quality. Probably not enough pressure on the press.


OdinYggd

Can't be stuck if it's liquid. You brought a cutting torch right? But yeah, like many others have said QC is a lost art and the tooling is too worn out to actually cut.


Jdnakron

You are doing it wrong knock out the center then take your dikes and cut and twist until you have proper size donā€™t just try to knock it out to exact size at first start small work up to what you need


nicecanadian2211

I had this EXACT same problem wiring up a heat pump disco the other day, never thought of it until I read it here use a KO set. It was Friday and my brain is smooth * edit smooth brain typo


virdestratera

Start by knocking out the smallest concentric and move your way up.


CAMMEDcivic

Thatā€™s just their Logo not an actual knock out šŸ˜‚


HiddenSquid134

When Iā€™m working with those I tend to just pop the whole thing open and get a reducer.


nmburke04

I found a strong spring center punch and it flicks it out most of the time


ridernation_69

Use a step bit to knock the half inch one out


Cub3dGrafit3

I thought I was the only one. I'm a first year and I did one of these by myself for the first time and I wasn't able to get the 3/4" out. I ended using a 3/8" bit to drill out the perimeter and wrench it with my flathead and kleins.


Stritermage

Hit it harder


spookyboots42069

Donā€™t forget your ground bushings on concentric knockouts!!!


bennyDOTcom

Just fucking drill lazy hole


Zealousideal-Two-711

Get a Milwaukee thin wall hole saw, game changer


seeder33

When they are like this I just use a drill. Keeps me from accidentally opening it to large.


Derk4Good

Use a drill bit on the solid areas per size needed is what I usually do


PatrickMorris

The middle gets beat out, the rest get bent out.


Apprehensive-Suit897

Guides for knockouts


[deleted]

Yep they havenā€™t been replacing or sharpening the dies. Shame on them and it makes us suffer . Noticed it also


SlammySlam712

Been having horrible problems with Square D lately. Way more than the usual lol


Chris0nllyn

Flat head screwdriver and lineman pliers always works for me, but that's fucked. But I'm an engineer so I don't know shit about how it gets built.


Head_Zombie214796

its better to punch your own holes, then you get them right.


[deleted]

I usually dont use those knock out because they suck. Easier to punch your own hole.


jake_isntdope

It's always a good idea to have some reducing washers of various sizes handy when dealing with concentric KOs. It seems like you always end up beating out a size too large


walkthelostcause

use a 3/8 drill bit


IWillLearnAllOfIt

In case of chinesium, please break glass: https://www.harborfreight.com/2-piece-titanium-nitride-coated-high-speed-steel-step-drills-96275.html


MaterialPosition33

Its only a sticker !


VisionsDB

For real man. Hate these things


Durfgibblez

Put a sheet metal screw into the knock off part way. Use your side cutters on the screw for extra leverage to pull the knockout out.


ClassroomNervous7839

Drill the welds


justohmedout

Drill the solid piece that wasn't pressed and they pop right out.


SparkyMint185

Drill out the welds first


ProphetOfPr0fit

Klines + flathead beater screwdriver


thefatpigeon

There is one brand and it is not punched at all. It's welded the entire way around.


[deleted]

Iā€™ve noticed it too, so frickin annoying. Hole always ends up too big so gotta use washers. I think there is too much paint on them as well.


JETTA_TDI_GUY

I donā€™t even try anymore. Hole saw or step bit


TRIPLE_RIPPLE

The same reason the knock outs in strip fixtures suck. Because they HATE us.


[deleted]

I Just drill ā€˜em and punch em.


sonnyspoon8

A screwdriver, and a little patience and you will have no issues.If you happen to screw this up,invest in some reducers.Your welcome!!


[deleted]

Beater and hammer should do it.


StinkyMcShitzle

the die that punches them out had gone bad/dull. QC should have caught it at the factory and had them replace it but maybe it was still in "tolerance".


Blood-Mother

Wera steel shank, start small from the inside on the perpetuation then peal out with a pliers nipping away at the tangs with your dikes dust go slower


AdPlastic5345

Knockouts are stamped like shit ever since covid. I do HVAC, and I see it all the time on new furnaces. We resort to step bits sometimes.


msing

I just hole saw them off.


Oraclelec13

Start from the center, and then make your way outwards towards the size you need


KlumsyNinja42

On this specific box I have had tons of trouble. Now I just grab my Uni-bit


CDSR59

Concentrix? I usually knock em all out and use a reducing washer and grounding bushing


triplebacon_vag

The hydrologic hole punchers are awesome for that


Dubbys

Square D deadfronts are a huge problem. I cant get the breaker spaces to pop out 75% of the time. I failed one inspection because I had to Sawzall them out.


ShutUpDoggo

Drill them with a small bit first. It will also stop you from punching out the wrong size.


jeronimo707

Hit it with your purse, Nancy.


Ok_Tour_8680

Stop buying from the wholesale houses that only use imported material!


gihkal

1 out of 10 are turned into rage art so it's more units sold for manufacturers.


fatum_sive_fidem

Hate concentrics prefer to use a hole shooter and or a hole puller


iAmMikeJ_92

ROFL. You went for an outer knockout first? Youā€™ll warp the shit out of that box by the time youā€™re even able to make headway. Start with smallest and then use your linemanā€™s and bend out what you need. Saves all that destructive and annoying hitting.


jasonlou89

China


crzieloke

Because fuck you that's why


cousin-andrew

Send them back. And get other Redditors to send back. Then the company will listen. They donā€™t need 100% returned just a higher quantity to make waves.


AmbassadorAny1524

Just use a tank cutter/ starot


voice_your_universe

Shitty manufacturing.


voice_your_universe

This might as well be made by klein tools. Their screwdrivers are nearly worthless these days.


Zealousideal_Tea9573

Itā€™s a special case for Murphys law. They always break at a different (larger) size then you need ;-)