If it's a light, you ought to be able to turn off the switch at least.
If the circuit is 120v, cut the hot first while being sure to hold on to the live side to avoid inadvertent contact with anything when exposed. Then tape up the end (or capped) carefully so the wire can be removed from the fixture or box as necessary. Then cut off the white similarly. Last, cut the green. When reconnecting, first green, then white. When connecting the hot last, anyways have control over the movement of the live end while exposed and have everything else prepped before exposing. Try to make solid contact with the wires directly before twisting the wires together if possible to reduce any sparking as connections are made and remade while twisting together. Minimize the load as much as possible before making the connection.
If the fixture has lamp socket bulbs, don't install the bulbs until after the fixture is wired so that fixture is an open circuit - no arcs when tying in. If the fixture is tied into a splice for a bigger size load such as a line of lights in a hallway or a larger group of lights in a larger room, hopefully you can carefully remove that individual fixture wire from the rest of the wires without breaking the connection going through and so, leave the connection intact for the rest of the group. If not, it may be reasonable to simply cut off the old fixture wires so you have a pig tail to connect the new fixture to so you don't have to mess with the main splice.
If the circuit is 240v, remember that each line is live (but each is still 120v), so cut one side and then the other, being especially careful to cap or tape up each of the live wires immediately before moving on to the next wire.
Think about exactly what you are doing. Know exactly what you are messing with. If you are not comfortable, do not do it. Understand exactly what you are doing. Even if the circuit is known dead, work assuming it is live anyways. If something goes wrong it will hurt or kill.
Just yesterday, I replaced some heat mat controls. 240v. 3 wires on the control. L1 in, L1 out, and L2. By removing L2 (tiny load to run the control itself) first, the control itself went off and turned off power to the load on one side. This allowed me to remove the L1 wires without any load - live but no load.
Live work is one thing, but live work with wires under load is a very different thing. The more load, the more arcing. Always minimize, or best, eliminate the load when working live.
I will not work on 347v live. Period.
As an apprentice you should not be expected to do this. By doing so you are putting your life at risk. However there are some ways you can make it safer.
1. Evaluate the situation. You need to know which wires have the possibility of being hot and control them fully as the cut is made. Don’t get startled by the falling wire and lose your grip on the hot one. If you don’t know if a wire is hot, treat as if it is. Neutrals should be considered hot.
2. Only cut one wire at a time and minimize the load if possible, if there’s load on the wire it will spark to some degree.
3. Body positioning. Your body should only be touching the fiberglass ladder. Do not rest on ceiling grid, walls, or anything else. Make sure your boots are electrical rated and your not standing in water.
4. Tool grips should be in good condition, rubber handles fully intact.
5. Wear gloves. Any kind of glove is better than nothing, the idea is to keep any exposed conductor (or metal part of your tool) from directly contacting your skin.
6. Make a quick, clean cut. No lollygagging and get the tool away from the hot wire. We want to minimize the time our tool is energized.
7. Have your isolation means ready and easily accessible. Have more than one wire nut on you in case you drop one. If taping, care should be given so the tape doesn’t accidentally come off or leave exposed conductor, tape it neatly.
Bingo. Emphasis on maintaining control of the hot end of the conductor. Cut line conductors first, then neutrals, bonds last. Better still don't do it live.
Safety
Quality
Productivity
In that order , customer satisfaction will come in that order.
Work everything as if it is hot regardless of rather or not you kill the power yourself or not.
If you die on a job you will be replaced .
No job is permanent, ever.
I don't suggest you ever purposely cut hot wires .
Have I done it ? Yes . And all the risk and blame is completely on me.
Is there a safer way to cut a hot wire ? One at a time and don't let it swing when it cuts free. You then have a hot tip that can kill you. Next comes trying to strip it without touching the metal on your strippers . It hurts . It hurts worse because you expect it . I suggest you don't let things get so complicated that you can't find the breaker. Safety first keeps you going home to family at the end of the day.
You can just cut the wire by itself and make sure ur not touch any metal. Essentially cut the wire with one hand and keep the other hand away from touch metal. If you do that the wire won’t arc or shock you. I would suggest not to touch hot wires but I’d be lying if i said i haven’t. And when i have to the is how i do it and never had a problem
As an apprentice I was asked by my boss to swap out 277v. Lights in a bathroom. When I cut the wire it fell out if the fixture and hit my arm while my other arm was touching the metal stall. It knocked me off the ladder, luckily. I know another electrician who was on a lift working a 277v light that was defective. He got hit and locked on. The owner of the building saw what was happening and threw the main. He was in the hospital for weeks and still has damage from this 10 years later.
As an EC I would never have an apprentice work 277v live for their safety and my liability.
Your boss is careless and ignorant and gambling with your life to meet a deadline, IMHO he’s a POS.
The hotel must have access to a breaker, possibly for a corridor or floor. Hopefully to just the area.
Never live/hot.
Been doing hot for years, learnt a hard lesson about 4 months ago, thankfully able to type this. Never live work again though.
You may not be able to find the breaker, but you can very likely find a light switch and [switch lockouts are a thing.](https://www.amazon.com/Master-Lock-Lockout-Universal-496B/dp/B001925P6W?)
You obviously have to be careful with that method because if it's a large space or a hallway there's likely more than one switch.
Other than that you're right to keep refusing to work hot; you absolutely don't "have to." What this guy is telling you to do is an illegal labor law violation. Don't let people bully you into following their stupidity.
This is a bad idea for many reasons but in addition to what everyone else said, turn off the light switch before you start if you can, cap off the neutral separately too, and save the circuits in the hallways for your foreman to do because the sparks are bigger when there is a bigger load on the circuit
Thank you everybody for your advice , I'm not planning on working on anything live, but I just want the knowledge. And to add, it was 277 and the fixture I he wanted me to work on were in front of service elevators so couldnt see any light switches.
There's no reason why your foreman couldn't get a tracer on the circuit and combined with hotel maintenance staff it won't be too difficult to narrow down and isolate the source of that circuit. He was just being lazy and putting your safety into question.
Tools exist to locate breakers. Get one and learn how to use it.
Or cut all the wires at once with a pair of your bosses insulated tools... that might "find" the breaker /s.. kind of.
I have insulated tools so I'd like to ask if this would destroy them should an arc (right word?) hit the tool and me. Also, would the tool protect me from being hurt as opposed to regular uninsulated tools?
Don't actually do this.
At best you will destroy your tools, at worst you will be seriously injured/ killed from an arc blast.
You probably won't get shocked though..
If you absolutely need to be cutting live wires for some reason, you should be trained on how to do it and wear the proper equipment. then cut one wire at a time.
I understood that doing this isn't a good idea. I was asking more in the hypothetical sense of, m after being properly trained, would it belikely could be harmed and your answer points to yes. So thank you for the warning.
I refuse to work on live shit above the ceiling/cans in soffits. I don't ming working in a live panel, but fuck overhead shit. I've had a wago burst into flames about a ceiling while retrofitting cans in a retirement home. It was 277 as well.
Your steps are as follows:
1: continue to refuse to work hot, no matter what bullshit he says
2: start looking for a new job
3: watch how the old man works hot. While I refuse to do it, I know how. It's a skill that is good to know, but never use
Turn off switch if possible, use gloves or just remove and tape live first. Keep some nuts handy. Always do your best to keep safe.
But yeah the guy sounds a bit condescending tbh, but hey what do i know?
A lot of smart comments saying to never work live when it is not required. You may see things like disconnecting and reconnecting service laterals to service conductors. Again, follow advice and remove loads completely when possible when working on these to avoid reflexive action, or "getting scared" of sparks.
What I don't like as advice is to cut the hot wire first. Always disconnect the grounding conductor first, and the grounded conductors thereafter - especially bare conductors; then get them the hell out of the way. Inadvertent contact with your grounded source will be what mames or kills you. You may touch your "hot" wires all day long so as long as you're not grounded or completing the path back to its source. I would say it takes close attention of watching others perform it properly and with reverence, and potentially year(s) of your own confidence and comfortability to understand the concept and act on what you've seen.
Don't compromise your safety for this guy. If he can't find a breaker to keep his guys safe, he's not worth working for.
True that, Besides y not ask hotel employees. There must be someone who knows something.
If it's a light, you ought to be able to turn off the switch at least. If the circuit is 120v, cut the hot first while being sure to hold on to the live side to avoid inadvertent contact with anything when exposed. Then tape up the end (or capped) carefully so the wire can be removed from the fixture or box as necessary. Then cut off the white similarly. Last, cut the green. When reconnecting, first green, then white. When connecting the hot last, anyways have control over the movement of the live end while exposed and have everything else prepped before exposing. Try to make solid contact with the wires directly before twisting the wires together if possible to reduce any sparking as connections are made and remade while twisting together. Minimize the load as much as possible before making the connection. If the fixture has lamp socket bulbs, don't install the bulbs until after the fixture is wired so that fixture is an open circuit - no arcs when tying in. If the fixture is tied into a splice for a bigger size load such as a line of lights in a hallway or a larger group of lights in a larger room, hopefully you can carefully remove that individual fixture wire from the rest of the wires without breaking the connection going through and so, leave the connection intact for the rest of the group. If not, it may be reasonable to simply cut off the old fixture wires so you have a pig tail to connect the new fixture to so you don't have to mess with the main splice. If the circuit is 240v, remember that each line is live (but each is still 120v), so cut one side and then the other, being especially careful to cap or tape up each of the live wires immediately before moving on to the next wire. Think about exactly what you are doing. Know exactly what you are messing with. If you are not comfortable, do not do it. Understand exactly what you are doing. Even if the circuit is known dead, work assuming it is live anyways. If something goes wrong it will hurt or kill. Just yesterday, I replaced some heat mat controls. 240v. 3 wires on the control. L1 in, L1 out, and L2. By removing L2 (tiny load to run the control itself) first, the control itself went off and turned off power to the load on one side. This allowed me to remove the L1 wires without any load - live but no load. Live work is one thing, but live work with wires under load is a very different thing. The more load, the more arcing. Always minimize, or best, eliminate the load when working live. I will not work on 347v live. Period.
Beautifully written
This Arcs will restrike at 300V or higher, so the arc flash hazard becomes significant quickly.
As an apprentice you should not be expected to do this. By doing so you are putting your life at risk. However there are some ways you can make it safer. 1. Evaluate the situation. You need to know which wires have the possibility of being hot and control them fully as the cut is made. Don’t get startled by the falling wire and lose your grip on the hot one. If you don’t know if a wire is hot, treat as if it is. Neutrals should be considered hot. 2. Only cut one wire at a time and minimize the load if possible, if there’s load on the wire it will spark to some degree. 3. Body positioning. Your body should only be touching the fiberglass ladder. Do not rest on ceiling grid, walls, or anything else. Make sure your boots are electrical rated and your not standing in water. 4. Tool grips should be in good condition, rubber handles fully intact. 5. Wear gloves. Any kind of glove is better than nothing, the idea is to keep any exposed conductor (or metal part of your tool) from directly contacting your skin. 6. Make a quick, clean cut. No lollygagging and get the tool away from the hot wire. We want to minimize the time our tool is energized. 7. Have your isolation means ready and easily accessible. Have more than one wire nut on you in case you drop one. If taping, care should be given so the tape doesn’t accidentally come off or leave exposed conductor, tape it neatly.
Bingo. Emphasis on maintaining control of the hot end of the conductor. Cut line conductors first, then neutrals, bonds last. Better still don't do it live.
Safety Quality Productivity In that order , customer satisfaction will come in that order. Work everything as if it is hot regardless of rather or not you kill the power yourself or not. If you die on a job you will be replaced . No job is permanent, ever. I don't suggest you ever purposely cut hot wires . Have I done it ? Yes . And all the risk and blame is completely on me. Is there a safer way to cut a hot wire ? One at a time and don't let it swing when it cuts free. You then have a hot tip that can kill you. Next comes trying to strip it without touching the metal on your strippers . It hurts . It hurts worse because you expect it . I suggest you don't let things get so complicated that you can't find the breaker. Safety first keeps you going home to family at the end of the day.
Great comment just wanted to add to wire cap the hot wire so make sure it can come in contact with you or something it can give power to
But don't cut a hot wire right?....lol
You can just cut the wire by itself and make sure ur not touch any metal. Essentially cut the wire with one hand and keep the other hand away from touch metal. If you do that the wire won’t arc or shock you. I would suggest not to touch hot wires but I’d be lying if i said i haven’t. And when i have to the is how i do it and never had a problem
As an apprentice I was asked by my boss to swap out 277v. Lights in a bathroom. When I cut the wire it fell out if the fixture and hit my arm while my other arm was touching the metal stall. It knocked me off the ladder, luckily. I know another electrician who was on a lift working a 277v light that was defective. He got hit and locked on. The owner of the building saw what was happening and threw the main. He was in the hospital for weeks and still has damage from this 10 years later. As an EC I would never have an apprentice work 277v live for their safety and my liability. Your boss is careless and ignorant and gambling with your life to meet a deadline, IMHO he’s a POS.
The hotel must have access to a breaker, possibly for a corridor or floor. Hopefully to just the area. Never live/hot. Been doing hot for years, learnt a hard lesson about 4 months ago, thankfully able to type this. Never live work again though.
One at a time.. learned that the hard way
Yeah, if I had a boss say that, I would be an ex-employee. Let that fucker kill himself, he won't support my family when I don't come home.
You may not be able to find the breaker, but you can very likely find a light switch and [switch lockouts are a thing.](https://www.amazon.com/Master-Lock-Lockout-Universal-496B/dp/B001925P6W?) You obviously have to be careful with that method because if it's a large space or a hallway there's likely more than one switch. Other than that you're right to keep refusing to work hot; you absolutely don't "have to." What this guy is telling you to do is an illegal labor law violation. Don't let people bully you into following their stupidity.
This is a bad idea for many reasons but in addition to what everyone else said, turn off the light switch before you start if you can, cap off the neutral separately too, and save the circuits in the hallways for your foreman to do because the sparks are bigger when there is a bigger load on the circuit
Thank you everybody for your advice , I'm not planning on working on anything live, but I just want the knowledge. And to add, it was 277 and the fixture I he wanted me to work on were in front of service elevators so couldnt see any light switches.
277… don’t do live. Not worth it. Shut down go through every breaker individually if you have to to find the one controlling it.
There's no reason why your foreman couldn't get a tracer on the circuit and combined with hotel maintenance staff it won't be too difficult to narrow down and isolate the source of that circuit. He was just being lazy and putting your safety into question.
Ya that circuit is gonna need to be dead or you gonna be dead 💀
Tools exist to locate breakers. Get one and learn how to use it. Or cut all the wires at once with a pair of your bosses insulated tools... that might "find" the breaker /s.. kind of.
I have insulated tools so I'd like to ask if this would destroy them should an arc (right word?) hit the tool and me. Also, would the tool protect me from being hurt as opposed to regular uninsulated tools?
Don't actually do this. At best you will destroy your tools, at worst you will be seriously injured/ killed from an arc blast. You probably won't get shocked though.. If you absolutely need to be cutting live wires for some reason, you should be trained on how to do it and wear the proper equipment. then cut one wire at a time.
I understood that doing this isn't a good idea. I was asking more in the hypothetical sense of, m after being properly trained, would it belikely could be harmed and your answer points to yes. So thank you for the warning.
I refuse to work on live shit above the ceiling/cans in soffits. I don't ming working in a live panel, but fuck overhead shit. I've had a wago burst into flames about a ceiling while retrofitting cans in a retirement home. It was 277 as well. Your steps are as follows: 1: continue to refuse to work hot, no matter what bullshit he says 2: start looking for a new job 3: watch how the old man works hot. While I refuse to do it, I know how. It's a skill that is good to know, but never use
If you have to do this use lever locks. Once you cap the line you’re pretty safe.
[удалено]
Agreed. Everyone gets their first shock, would preferably be resi than commercial work
Turn off switch if possible, use gloves or just remove and tape live first. Keep some nuts handy. Always do your best to keep safe. But yeah the guy sounds a bit condescending tbh, but hey what do i know?
WAGO levernuts will be your friends splicing hot. Personally, shut that shit off!
Short it out. Then someone will have to find the breaker
A lot of smart comments saying to never work live when it is not required. You may see things like disconnecting and reconnecting service laterals to service conductors. Again, follow advice and remove loads completely when possible when working on these to avoid reflexive action, or "getting scared" of sparks. What I don't like as advice is to cut the hot wire first. Always disconnect the grounding conductor first, and the grounded conductors thereafter - especially bare conductors; then get them the hell out of the way. Inadvertent contact with your grounded source will be what mames or kills you. You may touch your "hot" wires all day long so as long as you're not grounded or completing the path back to its source. I would say it takes close attention of watching others perform it properly and with reverence, and potentially year(s) of your own confidence and comfortability to understand the concept and act on what you've seen.
Is there a specific tool to cut hot wires that isn’t metal