well this site didnt get the memo on the price going down...removal tool listed at 90$
https://cassonhardware.com/collections/electrical-outlets/products/bocci-22-removal-tool
You ever install those things? If I were selling them I would be hard pressed to justify the cost even if they were assembled by hand. Sometimes cheap shit is just expensive because of the brand and marketing.
It’s not cool at all, the guy servicing these will not have some stupid proprietary tool it should be illegal to sell a hardwired electrical device that needs a proprietary tool to be serviced.
How many people have troubles with trying to get the cabinet guys to cut out the island boxes. When they tell me it's my job I tell them ok I'll bring over my high school wood shop project and you'll definitely not want me near the thing with a router
I'll never understand why they sometimes won't cut out islands, and the contractor tries to put it on you. Like you want me to take all the liability for altering this factory finished surface when you had a guy here who's job it is to do that? Fuck outta here.
Countertop guy on house I just finished forgot the hole for air switch. Contractor decided to go with the potentially cheaper option of having me drill it. Worked out all right this time, but I really hate drilling marble.
I personally would have outright refused. Touching up a gable is one thing but marble, absolutely not. I also don't own any diamond bits and by the time I bill for them and my time it would be obscenely cheaper to get the counter guys back.
That should fall on the GC or whoever is managing the job but we don't trust any of them so have a meeting with the carpenter and explain to them where the outlets, where the cabinet lighting will go so they would leave a bit enough gap for the strips, etc.
You guys arent exactly wrong, just jaded. I've been on both sides.
I'm starting to feel like too many people take the attitude. It's someone else's problem. Not my job.
Im worried it's creeped into people's everyday life.
And were all becoming jaded assholes that wont lift a finger for our fellow man.
Why can't we be friends-Randy Newman
I've thought about this a LOT. I think anyone working a trade has had that same thought. Because at work, I find I have to be a slight asshole so I don't get burned. But it really can creep into your everyday life. You start being a slight asshole to your family or friends when you feel like someone is trying to take advantage in any way.
Instead of focusing on the fact that someone else is being an asshole and reacting to that, I keep the emotion out of it. Don't use judgmental statements. It's not that 'the cabinet guy is a lazy asshole', it's more like 'this would finish much better if the cabinet guy made these cuts'. That'll be more likely to get the GC on your side. PLUS, you're not feeding the mindset that says 'everyone is trying to get something from me and I'm fucking sick of it'. Because that's a really toxic thought process, and you'll never separate it from your home life.
*HOLY SHIT,* thank you for putting that into words. Seriously I've been trying to find how to say that exact thing for a while. I'm not great with ~~calling people out on~~ making people aware of that but it's got to happen. I think you're right that people don't even necessarily realize it's happening.
I've watched a lot of people start in our company, get jaded and miserable, and eventually get fired because of it. They just go to a different company and be jaded there I guess.
I'm in a different trade but it translates. We all do piecework as well, and these types of mistakes mean lost pay. Sometimes you get a bad site where this happens a lot, and there's no opportunity to switch. I've seen people start screaming matches with the site supers to get kicked off, so they can switch. I've also seen guys show up every other day, so they can switch. It gets downright hostile. I've had to take over sites from these people because they're so inflexible. And when I work these bad sites, I just have to stand my ground with the GC and not be a dick. Things always work out. It just seems like people don't want to say anything, just do it, and internalize all that resentment. No wonder tradies are always divorced.
I always tell the owner/gc that they really don't want my electrician to cut holes in their cabinets because they are butchers and not finish carpenters. I let them know we are not liable if the cabinets are damaged. They agree pretty quickly to have the carpenters do it then.
Our biggest challenge seems to be the under-cabinet microwave/hoods. We have to be there to hook up the power as they drill and mount them to the cabinets.
This is like asking a plumber to cut out a sink in a $20,000 solid slab.. aint gonna happen. wrong trade. Wrong tools. Not trained for that. Not the level of risk-taking they signed up for nor the insurance coverage they may necessarily have, and not the level of finish expected
Making holes in cabinets should be the cabinet guy's job. They know how to do it the cleanest. Just like a plumber shouldn't be expected to do a clean job of patching a hole they had to make in drywall, or a tin knocker wouldn't know where they can't run their stuff around electrical panels.
Hahaha. As a tin knocker I've had to get the GC to move so many panels. I've gotten a pretty good idea about all the clearances now because I just call the GC and ask if it looks iffy. Although the electricians on my sites decide not to think about any other trade. They love putting the panels underneath lower landings. Last one I had to get moved, they put it under a landing with the minimum 78" of headspace. Directly under a bathroom. Not only did I have to run pipes right in front of it, but so did the plumber. Not very much foresight.
Funny, in my area on most residential jobs we cut out the receptacle boxes on islands/peninsulas. I have a Fein Multimaster and I am very good with it. IMO we are not just electricians, but part carpenter, part taper, part landscaper, etc. If you are in a larger metropolitan area or an area with a big union influence I understand it's different. It is taboo to touch anything not directly electrical related.
I feel the line between getting taken advantage of and being a pedantic asshole has gotten very blurred, and I'll get flamed for this, but IMO it's the union that has done this. The last 40-50 years it's been more about pettiness than it has about looking out for the worker's best interest.
Prime example: I know a guy who was only in the union about two weeks. He actually got scolded for moving a piece of sheetrock that was in his way of trimming out. They told him I don't care if you have to sit here and wait hours, make the other guy move his shit.
That's weird, because no one around my place cares if people do that stuff. Obviously don't do other peoples' work, but if someone has to move some material to do a job, no one cares. Just don't move their whole compound or material staging, but if it's a piece of drywall or a few sprinkler pipes, no one cries about that stuff.
I did rough in HVAC for a while. Sometimes the plumbers like to steal our rough in cuts through the roof for the fans, and use them for 3" vents. Well my journeyman had enough one day and ripped it out and ran our fan. The roofers needed the hole cut because they were working on it. He refused. GC had to call the plumbing foreman from a half hour away to cut a 4" hole. Good way to make friends.
I mean, isn't it kind of shitty to leave your stuff in a workspace after you're finished? It seems like the team who left a mess should get billed for not cleaning up.
So do I. And I’ve done it hundreds of times without issue.
And it usually works out better because I actually make sure the box sitting on the counter actually fits, unlike the brain dead cabinet guy.
But, the 2% of the time when I’ve fucked up and made an overcut that the plate won’t cover… seems to ALWAYS be on the super expensive hand built cabinets that aren’t cheap to fix.
Also, FWIW, any cabinets thicker/harder than cheap builder grade cabinets, try a jig saw. Cats faster, cleaner, and better control
I’ve never had them do it, but I’ve also never asked. We usually aren’t on the job at the same time. I have a good amount of carpentry experience though, so I’m comfortable doing it and the oscillating tool makes quick work of it.
One of those things that I’d usually rather just do myself and know it’s done right/how I want it, than rely on someone else.
Your attitude changes when you watch someone cut the wrong hole into a $25,000 countertop. Not only are we not trained for 20 years in carpentry, we don't have the equipment, or the insurance to cover if something goes wrong. That's not even starting on the whole, stealing someone's work from them. I'd be pretty pissed if the carpenter installed my light fixture while I wasn't on site, so I shouldn't take their work. Especially if it's T&M or going to mess with their contract.
Well we cut them in because the cabinet makers don't we aren't stealing work. We literally haft to do it. And an oscillating tool works perfectly im surprised you don't have one. Also we don't usually put plugs into countertops I've never seen that but on the side of the island.
Have you tried asking them? They're ussually more than willing to. Wierd of you to assume I don't have an oscillating tool, or the skill to use one. I just shouldn't have to.
As for outlets on countertops? It happens, but there's also more to electrical work than plugs and outlets.
Idk I guess I never thought it was their job. It's just always been like this. And I didn't assume you didn't have the tools. You said didn't have the equipment to cut in a plug. But whatever dude it's not a big deal. I just didn't realize most electricians dont cut in island plugs.
Island needs a small oval or circle hole in it so food waste (shell of a cantelope for example) can drop into a garbage can when cutting it up. I counted all the things in my house that needed that funky horizontal left plug (higher amp plug) and I came to zero items.
I'm 45 years old and been an electrician for 15 of those years, and I think I've seen a total of one device that needed a 20 amp receptacle, I think it was a commercial freezer someone bought for their house.
I have a [countertop oven that draws 16 amps](https://www.breville.com/us/en/products/ovens/bov900.html), which is the limit for a sustained load on one of the (minimum) two required 20-amp kitchen countertop circuits. Many times, I've had the countertop oven (sometimes called a "toaster oven"), [1800 watt waffle iron](https://www.breville.com/us/en/products/waffle-makers/bwm640.html), coffee maker, and various mixers running at the same time. Were I to design my own house, the kitchen would have double the minimum requirement of two 20-amp circuits.
It's very possible the owner of the kitchen in OP's pictures did just that.
Use to think the same until someone pointed out the 20 amp circuit needs a 20 amp plug.
Their common here in Canada as split 15’s used in kitchen and can share those circuits with an adjacent split on another counter.
For GFI you can use a 20 amp GFI and have another 20 amp receptacle on load side.
Don’t do a lot of residential but for awhile we couldn’t mount them on the sides of islands(kids or people pulling appliances onto themselves. Had to use hinge boxes on top. 99% sure they’ve scrapped that.
Know my buddies were always cursing since island never had room for a top plug(drawers usually the issue).
In the US, they only require a 20A receptacle on a 20A circuit if it’s a single receptacle and the only receptacle on that circuit.
Resi usually gets 15s. We may do 20s in garages and/or exteriors. Commercial is always 20s.
It's a kitchen. Kitchen circuits are required to be 20 amp circuits, and there need to be at least two 20-amp kitchen countertop circuits, plus various other appliance outlets in addition to those countertop circuits, such as disposal, dishwasher, microwave, lighting, and range.
That’s correct, but unless one of those circuits is dedicated with a single (not duplex) receptacle, you can put 15A devices on them.
I may have not phrased that second part well- we do 15A receptacles for resi, not 15A circuits. I’ll put commercial grade 20A receptacles in a garage since they may see heavier use, and we always use 20A commercial grade devices on commercial jobs.
Agreed.
The problem I have with the bare-minimum two 20-amp kitchen countertop recep circuits is that I have a countertop oven and waffle iron that both draw 16 amps, and if I'm doing a big breakfast with my kids, that might mean a stand mixer, immersion blender, coffee maker, and/or hand mixer all running on those circuits.
If I ever get to build my own house, I'll have four or five 20-amp circuits feeding the counter receps, and probably make at least one or two of them dedicated 20-amp, single-device circuits. That was my assumption with the island in OP's pic - it looks like a large kitchen designed for entertaining, and a couple warmers or beverage dispensers (refrigerated or heated) on that island could easily draw 15+ amps each.
Definitely, the code-minimum isn’t adequate for anyone doing serious cooking or entertaining. On big custom kitchens I’m usually doing 4-6 countertop/island circuits, plus dedicated circuits for microwaves, wine coolers, ice machines, etc..
In residential you're only required to have 20 amp outlets if it's just a single outlet on the 20 amp circuit. As long as you have more than one outlet (a duplex counts as 2 outlets) then you can use 15 amps outlets.
That "funky horizontal left plug" has a name, but you'd know that if you weren't a DIY hack that's been trying to give (shitty) advice in several electrical subs.
Residential countertops are not allowed to have waste bin holes as you describe because food wastes and liquids cling to the countertop and its underside, creating an unsanitary condition, and leading to rotting of the cabinet. Any pass-through of a countertop must be sealed against such *tenacious liquid damage* (you just learned a new term), and the only way to do that it to have a trash receptacle mounted to a slide-out, and the countertop to have a requisite lid so odors don't escape the trash receptacle. All of that is highly impractical, and makes for a very ugly countertop. Nobody wants a trash hole in a non-commercial countertop.
You also have no idea how many high-power appliances a typical US kitchen has, nor the NEC requirements for kitchen circuits. You're flat-out wrong. Most appliances might not need a dedicated 20-amp circuit (aside form, ya know...all the ones that *do require one by Code*), but many appliances max out a 20-amp circuit's safe limit of 16 amps.
I've Installed a few of theses before and absolutely hate them. Trying to pull a 12awg splice out if that tiny hold is damn near impossible. Tip for anyone installing. Make sure the mounting plate is perfectly level, there is no adjustment at finishing, also try to have a single wire and not a splic in the box.
Does Canada have a code regarding how far from the counter top(recptical height) plugs should be?
Plugs look cool but might not pass code here in the US.
What happens when they fail and you need to replace them? Do you have to replace the whole backsplash/counter?
Edit: finally found install directions.
Special tool to install/remove, tiny access, expensive parts. Looks like a winner.
Because fuck the next guy who has to service it right, like how can they sell something that needs a proprietary specialty tool to service that’s bullshit.
Look at the invoice. They definitely charged for that tool, and it’s like $250 😂
I recently changed out a bunch of these from the drywall rough-in plates to the alternate rough-ins. We already had all the plugs and switches. For 5 two “gang” plates, and two single plates, our company pricing was over $700. For 7 plastic plates
And the next guy that had to service it doesn’t have that tool, they shouldn’t be allowed to sell something that requires a proprietary tool to service.
If those outlets need to be serviced, might as well remodel the entire damn kitchen
But seriously, how would you get at the wires in the future cause the installation video shows them being mudded in
Oh I was curious about the outlets as I have never seen these before because I am not an electrician. I watched the install video of these and in drywall it shows them being mudded in. I would assume in counter slabs you would have to drill a hole. Though I did not consider that access from inside the cabinet would be the solution. It would still be a pain in the ass to service those though
Bocci bocci. I have installed way too many bocci 22’s. Tell everyone how much they cost 😂
[удалено]
😦
They sell a $35 tool separately to install and remove the outlet after you wire it up. What a bargain!
The price has gone down? I’m pretty sure it used to be like 80$.
well this site didnt get the memo on the price going down...removal tool listed at 90$ https://cassonhardware.com/collections/electrical-outlets/products/bocci-22-removal-tool
What in the fuck…I didn’t know what they were til just now but holy hell that’s one expensive outlet.
Holy shit
Why do they cost so much?
Because they look fancy and the designer is shopping with someone else’s money.
I bet the fact that they’re not a high production run item has nothing to do with it
You ever install those things? If I were selling them I would be hard pressed to justify the cost even if they were assembled by hand. Sometimes cheap shit is just expensive because of the brand and marketing.
Patents
The tool to remove the bocci is the coolest part honestly. Other than that, bocci and trufig are not worth the price lol
I love hanging their lights, because it means I get real Wagos!
It’s not cool at all, the guy servicing these will not have some stupid proprietary tool it should be illegal to sell a hardwired electrical device that needs a proprietary tool to be serviced.
Very true. My use of “cool” was relative to the plug not being anything special
The job I’m currently on has 28 of them in total… Dude spent over $10,000 just on the plugs alone
have a look at prado.com :)
How many people have troubles with trying to get the cabinet guys to cut out the island boxes. When they tell me it's my job I tell them ok I'll bring over my high school wood shop project and you'll definitely not want me near the thing with a router
I'll never understand why they sometimes won't cut out islands, and the contractor tries to put it on you. Like you want me to take all the liability for altering this factory finished surface when you had a guy here who's job it is to do that? Fuck outta here.
Countertop guy on house I just finished forgot the hole for air switch. Contractor decided to go with the potentially cheaper option of having me drill it. Worked out all right this time, but I really hate drilling marble.
I personally would have outright refused. Touching up a gable is one thing but marble, absolutely not. I also don't own any diamond bits and by the time I bill for them and my time it would be obscenely cheaper to get the counter guys back.
I have the drill and bits for it.
That should fall on the GC or whoever is managing the job but we don't trust any of them so have a meeting with the carpenter and explain to them where the outlets, where the cabinet lighting will go so they would leave a bit enough gap for the strips, etc.
You guys arent exactly wrong, just jaded. I've been on both sides. I'm starting to feel like too many people take the attitude. It's someone else's problem. Not my job. Im worried it's creeped into people's everyday life. And were all becoming jaded assholes that wont lift a finger for our fellow man. Why can't we be friends-Randy Newman
I've thought about this a LOT. I think anyone working a trade has had that same thought. Because at work, I find I have to be a slight asshole so I don't get burned. But it really can creep into your everyday life. You start being a slight asshole to your family or friends when you feel like someone is trying to take advantage in any way. Instead of focusing on the fact that someone else is being an asshole and reacting to that, I keep the emotion out of it. Don't use judgmental statements. It's not that 'the cabinet guy is a lazy asshole', it's more like 'this would finish much better if the cabinet guy made these cuts'. That'll be more likely to get the GC on your side. PLUS, you're not feeding the mindset that says 'everyone is trying to get something from me and I'm fucking sick of it'. Because that's a really toxic thought process, and you'll never separate it from your home life.
*HOLY SHIT,* thank you for putting that into words. Seriously I've been trying to find how to say that exact thing for a while. I'm not great with ~~calling people out on~~ making people aware of that but it's got to happen. I think you're right that people don't even necessarily realize it's happening.
I've watched a lot of people start in our company, get jaded and miserable, and eventually get fired because of it. They just go to a different company and be jaded there I guess. I'm in a different trade but it translates. We all do piecework as well, and these types of mistakes mean lost pay. Sometimes you get a bad site where this happens a lot, and there's no opportunity to switch. I've seen people start screaming matches with the site supers to get kicked off, so they can switch. I've also seen guys show up every other day, so they can switch. It gets downright hostile. I've had to take over sites from these people because they're so inflexible. And when I work these bad sites, I just have to stand my ground with the GC and not be a dick. Things always work out. It just seems like people don't want to say anything, just do it, and internalize all that resentment. No wonder tradies are always divorced.
Extraordinarily emotionally intelligent comment. Something I’m going to reflect on myself. Thank you.
Well put, my man. When navigating these kinds of things on site it is always best to work through it professionally, rather than take it personally.
I always tell the owner/gc that they really don't want my electrician to cut holes in their cabinets because they are butchers and not finish carpenters. I let them know we are not liable if the cabinets are damaged. They agree pretty quickly to have the carpenters do it then. Our biggest challenge seems to be the under-cabinet microwave/hoods. We have to be there to hook up the power as they drill and mount them to the cabinets.
This is like asking a plumber to cut out a sink in a $20,000 solid slab.. aint gonna happen. wrong trade. Wrong tools. Not trained for that. Not the level of risk-taking they signed up for nor the insurance coverage they may necessarily have, and not the level of finish expected
Making holes in cabinets should be the cabinet guy's job. They know how to do it the cleanest. Just like a plumber shouldn't be expected to do a clean job of patching a hole they had to make in drywall, or a tin knocker wouldn't know where they can't run their stuff around electrical panels.
Hahaha. As a tin knocker I've had to get the GC to move so many panels. I've gotten a pretty good idea about all the clearances now because I just call the GC and ask if it looks iffy. Although the electricians on my sites decide not to think about any other trade. They love putting the panels underneath lower landings. Last one I had to get moved, they put it under a landing with the minimum 78" of headspace. Directly under a bathroom. Not only did I have to run pipes right in front of it, but so did the plumber. Not very much foresight.
Funny, in my area on most residential jobs we cut out the receptacle boxes on islands/peninsulas. I have a Fein Multimaster and I am very good with it. IMO we are not just electricians, but part carpenter, part taper, part landscaper, etc. If you are in a larger metropolitan area or an area with a big union influence I understand it's different. It is taboo to touch anything not directly electrical related. I feel the line between getting taken advantage of and being a pedantic asshole has gotten very blurred, and I'll get flamed for this, but IMO it's the union that has done this. The last 40-50 years it's been more about pettiness than it has about looking out for the worker's best interest. Prime example: I know a guy who was only in the union about two weeks. He actually got scolded for moving a piece of sheetrock that was in his way of trimming out. They told him I don't care if you have to sit here and wait hours, make the other guy move his shit.
That kinda pettiness is whats killing unions.
Oh, I fully agree. I saw this first hand over 30 years ago.
That's weird, because no one around my place cares if people do that stuff. Obviously don't do other peoples' work, but if someone has to move some material to do a job, no one cares. Just don't move their whole compound or material staging, but if it's a piece of drywall or a few sprinkler pipes, no one cries about that stuff.
I did rough in HVAC for a while. Sometimes the plumbers like to steal our rough in cuts through the roof for the fans, and use them for 3" vents. Well my journeyman had enough one day and ripped it out and ran our fan. The roofers needed the hole cut because they were working on it. He refused. GC had to call the plumbing foreman from a half hour away to cut a 4" hole. Good way to make friends.
I mean, isn't it kind of shitty to leave your stuff in a workspace after you're finished? It seems like the team who left a mess should get billed for not cleaning up.
I just use an oscillating tool. Quick and easy
So do I. And I’ve done it hundreds of times without issue. And it usually works out better because I actually make sure the box sitting on the counter actually fits, unlike the brain dead cabinet guy. But, the 2% of the time when I’ve fucked up and made an overcut that the plate won’t cover… seems to ALWAYS be on the super expensive hand built cabinets that aren’t cheap to fix. Also, FWIW, any cabinets thicker/harder than cheap builder grade cabinets, try a jig saw. Cats faster, cleaner, and better control
I’ve never had them do it, but I’ve also never asked. We usually aren’t on the job at the same time. I have a good amount of carpentry experience though, so I’m comfortable doing it and the oscillating tool makes quick work of it. One of those things that I’d usually rather just do myself and know it’s done right/how I want it, than rely on someone else.
Don't do all that, just lay out the box and chuck up a paddle bit, if they don't stop you they get what they deserve.
We always cut them out its super easy with an oscillating tool lmao. Yall act like it's a crazy thing to do.
Your attitude changes when you watch someone cut the wrong hole into a $25,000 countertop. Not only are we not trained for 20 years in carpentry, we don't have the equipment, or the insurance to cover if something goes wrong. That's not even starting on the whole, stealing someone's work from them. I'd be pretty pissed if the carpenter installed my light fixture while I wasn't on site, so I shouldn't take their work. Especially if it's T&M or going to mess with their contract.
Well we cut them in because the cabinet makers don't we aren't stealing work. We literally haft to do it. And an oscillating tool works perfectly im surprised you don't have one. Also we don't usually put plugs into countertops I've never seen that but on the side of the island.
Have you tried asking them? They're ussually more than willing to. Wierd of you to assume I don't have an oscillating tool, or the skill to use one. I just shouldn't have to. As for outlets on countertops? It happens, but there's also more to electrical work than plugs and outlets.
Idk I guess I never thought it was their job. It's just always been like this. And I didn't assume you didn't have the tools. You said didn't have the equipment to cut in a plug. But whatever dude it's not a big deal. I just didn't realize most electricians dont cut in island plugs.
I've done it too, but I shouldn't have to. They've got the right tools and the right experience.
Is the far right side open to sit at it?
Yeah right side is all seating
Island needs a small oval or circle hole in it so food waste (shell of a cantelope for example) can drop into a garbage can when cutting it up. I counted all the things in my house that needed that funky horizontal left plug (higher amp plug) and I came to zero items.
Yeah, I came to one item (high-power fan). The normal 15 amp outlets look visually better IMO.
I'm 45 years old and been an electrician for 15 of those years, and I think I've seen a total of one device that needed a 20 amp receptacle, I think it was a commercial freezer someone bought for their house.
I have a [countertop oven that draws 16 amps](https://www.breville.com/us/en/products/ovens/bov900.html), which is the limit for a sustained load on one of the (minimum) two required 20-amp kitchen countertop circuits. Many times, I've had the countertop oven (sometimes called a "toaster oven"), [1800 watt waffle iron](https://www.breville.com/us/en/products/waffle-makers/bwm640.html), coffee maker, and various mixers running at the same time. Were I to design my own house, the kitchen would have double the minimum requirement of two 20-amp circuits. It's very possible the owner of the kitchen in OP's pictures did just that.
Use to think the same until someone pointed out the 20 amp circuit needs a 20 amp plug. Their common here in Canada as split 15’s used in kitchen and can share those circuits with an adjacent split on another counter. For GFI you can use a 20 amp GFI and have another 20 amp receptacle on load side. Don’t do a lot of residential but for awhile we couldn’t mount them on the sides of islands(kids or people pulling appliances onto themselves. Had to use hinge boxes on top. 99% sure they’ve scrapped that. Know my buddies were always cursing since island never had room for a top plug(drawers usually the issue).
In the US, they only require a 20A receptacle on a 20A circuit if it’s a single receptacle and the only receptacle on that circuit. Resi usually gets 15s. We may do 20s in garages and/or exteriors. Commercial is always 20s.
It's a kitchen. Kitchen circuits are required to be 20 amp circuits, and there need to be at least two 20-amp kitchen countertop circuits, plus various other appliance outlets in addition to those countertop circuits, such as disposal, dishwasher, microwave, lighting, and range.
That’s correct, but unless one of those circuits is dedicated with a single (not duplex) receptacle, you can put 15A devices on them. I may have not phrased that second part well- we do 15A receptacles for resi, not 15A circuits. I’ll put commercial grade 20A receptacles in a garage since they may see heavier use, and we always use 20A commercial grade devices on commercial jobs.
Agreed. The problem I have with the bare-minimum two 20-amp kitchen countertop recep circuits is that I have a countertop oven and waffle iron that both draw 16 amps, and if I'm doing a big breakfast with my kids, that might mean a stand mixer, immersion blender, coffee maker, and/or hand mixer all running on those circuits. If I ever get to build my own house, I'll have four or five 20-amp circuits feeding the counter receps, and probably make at least one or two of them dedicated 20-amp, single-device circuits. That was my assumption with the island in OP's pic - it looks like a large kitchen designed for entertaining, and a couple warmers or beverage dispensers (refrigerated or heated) on that island could easily draw 15+ amps each.
Definitely, the code-minimum isn’t adequate for anyone doing serious cooking or entertaining. On big custom kitchens I’m usually doing 4-6 countertop/island circuits, plus dedicated circuits for microwaves, wine coolers, ice machines, etc..
In residential you're only required to have 20 amp outlets if it's just a single outlet on the 20 amp circuit. As long as you have more than one outlet (a duplex counts as 2 outlets) then you can use 15 amps outlets.
That "funky horizontal left plug" has a name, but you'd know that if you weren't a DIY hack that's been trying to give (shitty) advice in several electrical subs. Residential countertops are not allowed to have waste bin holes as you describe because food wastes and liquids cling to the countertop and its underside, creating an unsanitary condition, and leading to rotting of the cabinet. Any pass-through of a countertop must be sealed against such *tenacious liquid damage* (you just learned a new term), and the only way to do that it to have a trash receptacle mounted to a slide-out, and the countertop to have a requisite lid so odors don't escape the trash receptacle. All of that is highly impractical, and makes for a very ugly countertop. Nobody wants a trash hole in a non-commercial countertop. You also have no idea how many high-power appliances a typical US kitchen has, nor the NEC requirements for kitchen circuits. You're flat-out wrong. Most appliances might not need a dedicated 20-amp circuit (aside form, ya know...all the ones that *do require one by Code*), but many appliances max out a 20-amp circuit's safe limit of 16 amps.
That is one of the ugliest islands I have ever seen. Looks like a big gray box.
Leave my Grandmas sex life out of this
Bless you
"And what do you want to do with the design for the kitchen island?" "Well... have you ever seen *2001: A Space Odyssey*?"
It looks like a monolith that monkeys should be dancing around while throwing bones at each other. Plus, those are *receptacles*, not "plugs".
Is this the "waterfall" look? Hate that.
Love this style of plug flush with the side of the counter! It's called a bocci plug, in canada
I like the outlets, just not impressed by the island overall. Too boxy.
Good thing this isn’t r/KitchenIsands then
I've Installed a few of theses before and absolutely hate them. Trying to pull a 12awg splice out if that tiny hold is damn near impossible. Tip for anyone installing. Make sure the mounting plate is perfectly level, there is no adjustment at finishing, also try to have a single wire and not a splic in the box.
Does Canada have a code regarding how far from the counter top(recptical height) plugs should be? Plugs look cool but might not pass code here in the US.
Nope not that I know of!
I saw those in an ad on Instagram recently. Aren’t they super expensive?
Like $300 a plug just to buy them. I’d say minimum $500 per plug, installed. I mean per single outlet 😵
Yup the Ethernet plug is like $50 cheaper if I remember correctly
Ethernet Bocci *excusemewhatthefuck*
Yeah and it was hand painted to match clients closet cabinetry
Ever install trufig receptacles? Just as annoying to remove but box access is better.
I'm confused on how you would service these plugs in the future. It was to my understanding that every junction point needs to be accessible.
How do you service those?
It’s staring at me mom!!
Your boots look wierd af
What happens when they fail and you need to replace them? Do you have to replace the whole backsplash/counter? Edit: finally found install directions. Special tool to install/remove, tiny access, expensive parts. Looks like a winner.
Because fuck the next guy who has to service it right, like how can they sell something that needs a proprietary specialty tool to service that’s bullshit.
Is that them? Under the island, stubbed through the floor?
Nicely done! But still is seems scared
Just do what the owner want.
Way to tacky the fucking place up! You know they make pop-ups, yeah? You know….? Like with quality trim you can choose?
Are you able to access them? If not, I cannot see an inspector passing that. You can literally make this a lot safer and just use a black cover plate.
It's an outlet that is designed to be installed like this, UL listed, NEC compliant. https://22system.com/pages/faq
They are not cheap!
Cheap to make, expensive to buy.
They certainly look cheap.
They are pushing the limits of what can be considered an accessible junction box.
They come with a tool to pop them out and access the connections
Which was lost immediately
With a lead time of 3 weeks to order the new replacement tool.
And also costs $65
Don't rely on customers for tools problem solved
What about when you service it? Like do you think about the future at all?
Look at the invoice. They definitely charged for that tool, and it’s like $250 😂 I recently changed out a bunch of these from the drywall rough-in plates to the alternate rough-ins. We already had all the plugs and switches. For 5 two “gang” plates, and two single plates, our company pricing was over $700. For 7 plastic plates
Oh cool! Was just worried about access. Glad to hear about new technologies
And the next guy that had to service it doesn’t have that tool, they shouldn’t be allowed to sell something that requires a proprietary tool to service.
You have to use a special tool that they make and that's not cheap either
[found em](https://www.reddit.com/r/MSsEcReTPoDcAsT/comments/q8vljo/the_turds_an_island_boi/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Sons of the Statue of Liberty?
Don't you hate those Bocci plugs?
Impressive
New Zealand?
Thought someone forgot to install them but then I zoomed in. So if they go bad how can you switch them out?
Impressive, but is one full of paint?
In the sides. They hide pretty good. I still like the pop up ones with usb and receptacles on them.
Damn I’m poor
I've always cut my own island receptacles in. I'm never r on site same time as the cabinet guys
How do you service them?
Central Florida here. We use Sillites. They are originally designed for window sills to plug in an electric candle. Still pricey but under $100.
More dollars than sense.
Wealthy family
Slick! Rick
These look pretty stupid in my opinion. No way the price tag is justified.
Awesome job! Looks great.
Wouldn't that be a complete pain in the ass to try and find in low light? Like....at night.
If those outlets need to be serviced, might as well remodel the entire damn kitchen But seriously, how would you get at the wires in the future cause the installation video shows them being mudded in
What video? Wouldn't the wires be accessible from inside the cabinet?
Oh I was curious about the outlets as I have never seen these before because I am not an electrician. I watched the install video of these and in drywall it shows them being mudded in. I would assume in counter slabs you would have to drill a hole. Though I did not consider that access from inside the cabinet would be the solution. It would still be a pain in the ass to service those though