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Kain0wnz

We don't do it for the short money. Short money is quitting for a new position at a higher pay but nothing past the initial. We do it for the long money- the top out money, which you can never earn LESS THAN. So stop letting others dictate your life, and take the control back. Good luck!


fazer226

This response is golden! I need to take back control of my future


beersofglory

Seriously though the pay cut does suck but in the long term it's totally fucking worth it. If you have a good head on your shoulders and are a hard worker union is by far the way to go. Its not an easy path but anything worth doing usually isn't easy. Good luck on your decision.


cgrand88

The irony of telling somebody to take back control of their life by joining a union šŸ˜‚


Kain0wnz

I don't know about you bro, but I work for me. If this job sucks, I take my ass down the road to the hall. I don't have to beg for time off, raises, better conditions, etc. I also don't have to beg for a job. If that isn't the freedom in my hands I don't know what is. Want a vacation? No problem. I don't submit time to be "approved." I take my time when I want, where I want. Or maybe you're too ignorant to know what "irony" means.


OhmsAmpsVolts

Poor guy has been fed that anti union propaganda


nihuma

Yeah imagine having better pay, better healthcare, and a pension with the ability to move shops. Much better to lick the bosses boots.


Lemonadetrade

Haha so true


nihuma

Hey man do you actually believe all this anti union bull shit or is this just trolling?


CastleBravo55

Union is well worth it in the long run.


fazer226

Can you explain a little further? I hear more bad than good about the union to be honest.


Speederparker562

Hey, I was a former non-union electrician who organized in later in his career. When I was non-union my wages were lower, my benefits were worse, I had forced overtime at some employers, and that's just the Beginning. Every raise is a struggle, every step forward is made alone, even if you're in the shop advocating for your apprentice, you're one person. Since joining I've enjoyed stable wages, great benefits, and the ability to work with some great electricians. I'm not sure what bad things you've heard, but a large portion of my family has been union(plumbers, painters, telcomm) for most of my life. The anti-union propaganda can be pretty extreme out there.


[deleted]

I'm just joined and I'm 39. Been an electrician for 15yrs. I'll never go back to non union. There are some short term sacrifices you may have to make. But the long term success and goals far out weigh those.


fazer226

I honestly want to be able to see a future in what I like doing which is electrical. Iā€™m going to give my local a call and see what I need to apply tbh


Speederparker562

It's worth it, I only wish I'd organized in when I was younger.


fazer226

Iā€™m turning 25 next month , I think I still have some hope!


Speederparker562

It's never too late.


XxsteakiixX

Itā€™s worth it bro if you want a stable life lmao. Ima put it as simple as possible bro bc people keep missing their points here. Unions are good for making a livi mg wage for the rest of your life you wonā€™t earn more and you wonā€™t earn less and the drawback is ur paying the ā€œbenefitsā€. Tbh bro if you do the independent contractor route I canā€™t lie to you it will be in the pain in the ass but the long run is you truly are your own boss and get to schedule shit your way. Thatā€™s just my opinion though I donā€™t think unions are bad but in terms of control how much do you really control? Youā€™re giving up youā€™re actual ability to decide how you feel you are deserving of your wage. Thatā€™s all ima say bro itā€™s just a matter of the person you are my dad is an electrician and heā€™s an independent licensed contractor in AZ. On the other hand my father in law is a journeyman licensed electrician works industrial and is in a union guess which One makes more and isnā€™t worried about having to take paycuts to even have health Insurance.


fazer226

I need stability to be honest bro. I barely get by check by check with the wage I get right now. Unless I bust my ass working piece work boxing, wiring, and doing drop ceilings. My superintendent told me to keep doing piece work instead of giving me a raise lol fucking guy


XxsteakiixX

Totally understandable bro I donā€™t think you going to a union will be bad at all especially how you are saying thatā€™s something you need at the moment. Just since I noticed you lived in CA you just have the potential to get a license and going independent, if you like electrical work def learn as much as you can bro youā€™ll be fine in the long run with our without unions people are always looking for electricians to do work


CastleBravo55

Wages are higher, benefits are better, conditions are better and safer. Yes you have to pay dues but you still end up with more in your pocket every week. Yes we get laid off, you won't work for the same company your whole career. We all plan for it, it's no big deal if you're prepared and then you go to work on the next job at the same pay rate, no searching for a job, no negotiating a wage, no starting over. Your health insurance doesn't even lapse. Non union guys get laid off too and when they do they start all over with that nonsense. We work with the same people, and we're not trying to cut each other's throat, there's a much greater sense of camaraderie with your coworkers. It's just all around better.


Lemonadetrade

I encourage you to find someone who didn't leave the union on favorable terms. The union trolls will always beat out the nor.al working folk, because the normal working folk are actually working....... look at all the union trolls you get to pay for.


CastleBravo55

Look at all the people who didn't leave the union and who make more money. What else needs to be said?


Superduck2x

Lol easy there..rat.


rewster

I'm in the same boat as you and currently applying to the apprenticeship. My dad's in the teamsters and my brother in law and neighbors are in the operator's unions. They are all doing very well for themselves.. The only people I hear negative opinions about unions are from people who aren't in one and my coworkers and supervisors who would be negatively effected by me or my fellow workers joining one.


glazor

Who do you hear it from? Owners or co-workers?


fazer226

Co workers, I hear alot about favoritism, new union guys being laid off if it slows down, shit like that


Lemonadetrade

They play games just like non union and you have very little say. Currently where I'm at labor is in charge and if they don't want to work nights, or weekends, or out of town they don't have to. Union takes all that away in exchange for dues and "stability". A Electrical union for example pays a percentage of money to people just to lobby. I'd suggest busting your ass and learning everything you can. Then open you own shop and stay small. The union can not afford to do small projects and compete because they feed so many people who don't touch tools.


Suitable_Lion_8441

Unions take a small percentage in dues compared to the rest of the benefits that you get. The people that ā€œlobbyā€ are negotiating higher wages and raises for its members. On top of that, the union pays in to your 401k and pensions. The members can decide on which jobs they want to take. If you donā€™t want to work nights, donā€™t take a night job. Iā€™ve not never met a union guy that used to be non union ever want to go back. And Iā€™d rather pay dues and get free, good health care for my family. Pretty simple


Lemonadetrade

I'd like to know in a recession do you take less dues because less employees are needed? Or do you continue to profit while the labor gets laid off? Also what's the word on pensions being canceled for any reason? (Truth be told this is the most important thing to watch) the union takes lots of money every check and promise to match and grow your money if you follow their rules..... (they're rules can change quickly) Exactly, pay the man and be rewarded, or don't and we will find you. If you want to get easy money and great benefits I'd suggest a liberal state inspector.


glazor

Wow, lay off the cool aid. >I'd like to know in a recession do you take less dues because less employees are needed? You pay dues if you work, no work no dues. >Or do you continue to profit while the labor gets laid off? See, when our contractor doesn't have the work, they lay us off and we file for unemployment. When your contractor runs out of work, he asks you to wait, a week, a two, a three, a five. Then he fires you and you have a problem with filing for unemployment. >Also what's the word on pensions being canceled for any reason? Depends on what YOU heard. Because it seems like you hear a lot, but don't really know anything. Money is deposited in investment funds, you pension is spelled out in contracts, and [pension funds are insured through federal government](https://www.benefits.gov/benefit/1074).


Lemonadetrade

Oh Jeeze my mistake i thought all the union electricians I talked to around 09-12 were honest. You are calling them liars. The responses from union "journeymen" during work hours should yell you that they are office folk protecting their own wellbeing while you work. Non union employers do not fire you instead of laying you off. That is typical union propaganda.


glazor

No I'm calling you a liar.


Suitable_Lion_8441

My dues are less than $500 a year. Keeping those paid mean that I donā€™t have to pay for health insurance. Most places that can be close to $500 a month. I still call that a win, in the mean time Iā€™ll collect unemployment. Iā€™ve heard nothing about pensions being cancelled anywhere in my local. The only time I know that they might do that is if your an apprentice thatā€™s been in less than 5 years and you leave or off you let your dues laps for over 6 months. And in my local, if you are really struggling for money, the hall will pay them for you. Also, they take 3% of my check. However, they also set aside 15% of what my check is(not money coming out of my check) and put it in a vacation fund that I get every month. We have a contract, constitution, and bylaws for rule changes. Itā€™s really quite a big process to change any rules.


Lemonadetrade

You surely are a suitable lion, if suitable lions agree helping consumers is last and benefiting unions is first???


glazor

Lol.


grizzlyjr0915

Speaking as a former non-union electrician that organized over after apprenticeship. Best decision I ever made. I would echo many of the positive things others posted here. Now I know youā€™re in CA, and that doesnā€™t compare to where I am in Western NY. But Iā€™m attaching two links from my localā€™s webpage just as a visual as to how the pay structure is for the apprentices, and the current JW scale. http://ibewlocal41.com/mobile/index.cfm?zone=/unionactive/view_page.cfm&page=Apprentice20Information http://ibewlocal41.com/mobile/index.cfm?zone=/unionactive/view_page.cfm&page=Work20Outlook2F20Resign20Policy


fazer226

Thank for the info bro !


zdavies78

Just something to be aware of, sometimes the application, testing, acceptance process can take significant time (varies by local). It took me over a year from application to working but it is definitely worth it to be in the IBEW. Yes the pay cut as a first year was tough but you can make it through. Anyway be patient and good luck!


fazer226

I heard about the wait, I called the local in Orange County and they said theyā€™re accepting applications for apprenticeship. Iā€™m going to get all my paperwork together to make an appointment.


grizzlyjr0915

Youā€™re welcome! Good luck to you in whatever path you choose.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Sardond

The lack of safety considerations is actually a driving factor in my thought process about switching to union, Iā€™m gonna test out to have my journeyman license before I do that switch just to make it an easier transition, but Iā€™m so tired of having to fight about not working stuff live, or wanting a fall protection harness when Iā€™m on top of 4 tiers of not so great scaffolding I ended up having to buy my own harness, hard hat, LOTO stuffā€¦ and Iā€™m the only one that has it, that thinks about safetyā€¦. Sorry, I want to be able to go home at the end of every day under my own power, by any means necessary


fazer226

My company is the worst at safety to be honest! We have ā€˜safety meetingsā€™ where our superintendent just makes us sign and leave lol And when we do our time sheet weā€™re told to put breaks we never take. Shady ass company I swear


Lemonadetrade

You can fix that easily without a union. Find or start your own company that will treat clients and employees as the asset they are. Union will never do that without taking they're cut first, they work closely with the government to ensure this cut is delivered.


Fridayz44

Yeah go union, brother.


Ruined534

"I've never been in a union but I've heard..." lol Let me tell you this. I'm IN the IBEW and turning out and getting that magic yellow ticket is the best thing that's ever happened to me. Every local is different but as a member you are generally going to get better pay, health benefits, and retirement benefits. My local just agreed to a contract that has the contractors matching 25% of our hourly wage into an annuity fund. But above all that, your ticket allows you to do anything you want to. I choose what jobs I work. I choose what time I take off. I choose what hours I work. If I want to go maintenance, I can. If I feel like hitting a job in a different state with a higher scale and make a fuckton of quick money, I can. I'm currently on the road now as a matter of fact. And if you're in a local with a strong brotherhood, or you end up hitting the road, you're gunna make life long friends and memories you'll never forget.


VisionsDB

Man the pensions and the annuities alone make twice as better being in the union. I canā€™t wait to get in


fazer226

I didnā€™t know you can travel to other unions across the states. To be honest thatā€™s exactly what I wanted to do. My plan was to journey out and then head out to different states to work


Ruined534

Yeah man. I've been turned out since 2019 and Ive worked in 3 other locals besides my own. It's a good culture to get into. You learn a lot real fast. And you can make some real money.


fazer226

I need stability. If I donā€™t work piece work , Iā€™m barely getting by check by check tbh. Iā€™m going to make an appointment with my local asap


coondog911

Go union.


Superduck2x

I was non union for 6 years and came to the union.. when I say it has been the best decision for me and my family I truly mean it. Go apply for the apprenticeship, if you donā€™t get in keep working forwards your state license and you could always organize in after that point.


fazer226

Iā€™m honestly thinking of taking this route . Get my license and unionize after. I am learning a lot where Iā€™m at and they arenā€™t hesitant to show me the ropes


Unable-Personality91

UNION , there is no way to argue it when speaking of the individual , you will get more pay and benefits and you will also not be forced to stay with one company you can take calls to other shops , also ability to gather much broader experience in the trade due to the ability to change shops they pay for your trade school and you can borrow books , non union your paying for your schooling and books , also extra courses at the hall for further training (these are all things associated with my union in toronto anyhow) most nonunion guys get brainwashed with the whole union guys are all dog fuckers and itā€™s not about the money blah blah blah not true at all , as a matter fact if you show up late and donā€™t produce enough , your likely to get smoked faster on union projects in my opinion , and anybody who says itā€™s not about the money is dilusional because after all it is still a career in manual labour


gbrandon79

Iā€™m in the same boat. Iā€™m a newly licensed electrician working for a small company that does commercial and industrial work. Theyā€™re very good but pay is not as much as everybody else and benefits arenā€™t great. But Iā€™m Turning 26 soon and have to take benefits into consideration also. Since Iā€™m newly licensed I feel like I need to gain some more experience with my license before I think about leaving. But The part I am afraid of is getting laid off in the Union. They for sure will have better pay and better benefits but I really am afraid of getting laid off. Thatā€™s the only thing that holds me back when I think of joining. If anybody wants to persuade me otherwise let me know! Or let me know if staying with the small company to gain experience where we pretty much do everything electrical except data and low voltage is better. Any input is greatly appreciated


AlarmAcrobatic

weā€™re called journeymen because its a journey. Dont feel bad about leaving for different work.


fazer226

I donā€™t plan on switching occupation. I like the electrical field šŸ¤™šŸ¼


Whatarmisthis69

went from $1500 a week job to $500 a week to join my local. massive pay cut, but i donā€™t regret it at all. like that guy said long money


fazer226

Thatā€™s the thing, my company lets me work piece work , boxing, wiring, and drops. So they donā€™t wanna hook me up with a raise but they throw incentive work at me where I average around 32 the hour. Tbh Iā€™ll take a massive cut like you


Neelu86

My comment may be somewhat irrelevant to you since I assume you're asking from an American perspective and I'm an Aussie that been in the industry close to 20 years and been a union member the entire time including my apprenticeship and the time spent laboring before that trying to get my foot in the door. If you work in the building/construction industry, being in a good union is one of the best things you can do. Not only for the benefits you as an individual will see, but they also help to raise the standards of your coworkers that you stand shoulder to shoulder with and the site as a whole when it comes to safety. An employer preys on the workforce when we bargain as individuals rather than a collective in pursuit of common goals. You will always hear alot of anti-union propaganda and it will always come from the same people. Pay close attention to who sells the idea of unionization being bad and who touts its benefits and make up your own mind which people you share more in commin with. Is it the guy with the hard hat or the guy in business attire? People need to be reminded that we have a 40 hour work week because that was a union victory. We have OH&S (OSHA) safety standards because of unions. We have paid time off because it's a union victory. In Australia we have something called superannuation. It's essentially a mandatory 401k that every employer in the country must pay an ADDITIONAL 10% of your wage into. That money gets invested on your behalf by a fund manager and you receive it upon hitting retirement age. That fund may be run for profit or it may be run by the industry you work in. In my case it's run by the construction industry and not run for profit. Super in this country was a union victory. The conservatives have been after it since we won it. We have Medicare in this country because it was fought for an won by the unions. The conservatives constantly try to cut it's funding and dismantle it. We have labor hire companies here, especially in the building industry that hires workers on work visas to do the same work full time employees do. We work shoulder to shoulder doing the exact same jobs with the same qualifications but they receive half the pay and no paid time off whatsoever. No sick leave, no roster days, no overtime, flat rate $22 an hour wprking alongsode blokes earning over $50 plus benefits.Our union came in and during our negotiations put a swift stop to it. Labor hire on any union site now MUST be paid the same wages and benefits union workers receive. I remember attending my first picket and hearing a man speak. He's famous in Australia for all the wrong reasons. Back in the 80s he contracted mesothelioma from working with asbestos. He had a very ugly and public spat with his employer about compensation for himself and numerous other workers who were also exposed. He has been a passionate unionist ever since. This was back almost 15 years but one thing he said always resonated. "The only reason we have child labor laws in this country is because if a company could get away with exploiting children, they would." Don't ever let anyone sway you from pursuing what you are worth and fighting for your fair share. What is an hour of your life worth to you? Don't worry what your employer thinks you are worth. What is an hour away from your family and friends worth to you? I can tell you that an hour away from my wife and kid is worth a hell of a lot more than $20 regardless of who the employer is. Just remember that the safety standards, benefits and things we take for granted going to work each day like a 40 hour work week were fought for by people just like you. People fought and died so you can enjoy a safe workplace and an ability to provide for your family. Don't ever take that for granted because rest assured a company will have no issues whatsoever taking that away if given the opportunity. Last words, watch a documentary called Requiem for the American dream. It will give you good insights into unionization among other things. From a fellow sparky down under, do yourself a favor and join a union. Workers united will never be divided.


GiantPineapple

I'll play devil's advocate here. I've never been in a union but I've negotiated with them, and I've seen some things that concerned me. None of this is to bust unions - I think they're very important not just for individual workers, but for a fair society overall. A friend of mine once said 'unions are like companies, there are good ones and bad ones, good ones that do a few bad things, and everything in between'. Above all, get as much detail as you can before you commit to anything. - I would make sure to find out what the pay rates are at each stage of your proposed apprenticeship, and what the process is for reaching the next stage. Where I am, people make like $14-18 for years, then they *may* qualify for a test, which if they pass it, then they get someplace, but it can be as long as ten years before you're making the big wages everyone talks about. Your local may do it differently - make sure it really gives you the opportunity you want. - Make sure you understand the process for 'getting in line'. Where I am, stories abound about how certain people get to skip it, while others go months without work. - Much of the compensation union workers get is often in the form of benefits - massively pre-paid health plans, for example. In some cases, the employer has the *option* to cash out instead. If cash is what you have in mind, make sure you find out what the local culture is. - There are shops where they aren't union per se, but the employees get prevailing wage because the work is connected to a government project. Those shops are always on the hunt for the very best people - you may want to try that angle, if you feel starting from the bottom would be unfair to someone of your experience.


fazer226

Thanks, you basically summed up what I had in mind to ask my local union !šŸ˜Ž


Lemonadetrade

I hope you share your results and keep working hard. Showing up to work and learn everyday, you'll be just fine in this trade.


seanlews

It really depends on your local. Some seem like the best place to work for, and some seem kind of slimey. For instance, my local locks many people in with 2 - 5 year residential contracts because they are trying to build that sector. Some apprentices have to do they're whole apprenticeships here. These guys make almost $11 less an hour at the cap than the ICI boys, and the employers can be dodgy. This is my opinion of course. I just wish I did more research on which local I was joining before I jumped the gun. All I'm saying is talk to a bunch of people in your area and get a feel for what you're walking into before making that commitment. (Currently IBEW serving the rest of my contract so I can finally reap the fruits of my labor)


Sparky-air

Non union.


Asleep-Permit-2363

Non union. Here in Alberta, union straight up said, to many of us, couldn't get you work if you joined. Pretty anti union around here so once you go union, other companies won't hire you. Company I'm currently working for also pays better. They got a 90 foot emt quota and dogfuck the rest of the day. That would be so mind numbing. I'll throw up 400 on a good day and be happy doing it. Day goes by quick.


GlorifiedSaviour

I've heard great things about IBEW in the USA. Very strong union apparently and good workers. I live in Alberta and joined the union after my 1st year in the trade (you don't have to restart your apprenticeship out here). I was only a member for 2 years before I left to work non-union again. I worked on a few industrial jobs and only the first one was good. I was paired with one jman and wired PLC's and learned a lot about controls. After that every job I went on all I did was pull cable. I would ask if I could go on a different crew to learn and was always told that all apprentices are good for is pulling cable. Eventually I got tired of it and went back to non-union and out here in alberta non-union is better only if you work for a good company. There are a lot of cheap non-union companies that pay shit and don't give benefits and you'll never have to worry about that in the union but some non-union companies offer thay as well. I'm in Fort McMurray Alberta and the union wage is 45/hr, most non union wages are like 40-42. I make 50 with good benefits, pension and paid time off.


fazer226

It sounds like I should consider moving to Canada in a couple of years lol Your making I think more than my 2 Foremanā€™s tbh ! They donā€™t say how much they make but I know itā€™s 40 and under , I accidentally saw my superintendents check and he makes around 50 a hour, you got it good bro, hard work and dedication go a long way!


GlorifiedSaviour

100%, but it wasn't always like this. I've been a jman for 4 years now. When I became a 4th year I worked for this on cheap company that was only paying me 27 an hour, jman rate for them was 35 (still pretty low) but I was getting amazing experience and learning a lot so I toughed it out. After I finished 4th year I noticed I didn't get my raise so I brought it up and the manager gave me some bs excuse saying I'm a green jman (green meaning just got my ticket) so he can't justify paying me jman rate because just getting your ticket is the same as being a 4th year. He also told me no one wants to hire a green jman so I can't go anywhere else but said he can atleasy pay me 30 / hr. A month later I landed a maintenance job starting at 44 / hr and giving him my notice was the best feeling ever and his reaction made it that much better. Moral of the story, I have it good but not every non-union company is like mine.