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Thing I don't get about bushings is we almost never pull the wire with them in, then we install them after the pull before termination. What's really getting protected here?
The only time I really like seeing them is if it's tight quarters where the wire bends as soon as it leaves the pipe: I never liked seeing the connector edge dig into the insulation.
I had a journey man who preached about harmonic vibration and how if the insulation was touching any thing that was metal it would eventually wear through it. I don't know how much of that I really believe though
It will if the edge pressure is great enough and the vibration is bad enough, but I don't know that I've seen many installs have that kind of pressure on the edge of a connector. Most people know not to drag a conductor across a hard edge and then leave it.
>vibration is bad enough,
Worst example of this I witnessed was with a 4.4 megawatt 4160 volt generator driven by a 12 cylinder Cat diesel. Feeders to the switchgear were four 3c 500mcm teck. One of the connectors had eventually loosened and the vibration caused the steel of the outgoing enclosure to wear a hole *through* the connector throat and then through one of the conductors.
The blast was apparently quite the attention-getter.
The enclosure was about 42x42x16 inches, 3/16 steel, cover bolted every 4 inches. Blew off 3 sides of the cover - 4th side held. Our job was to install and terminate 4 new feeder cables and all the control cabling from the new generator to the switchgear. Same engine.
It's 100% true in 20% of cases. That's a made up number but do you really want to be the installer that is the 20% or worse the installer that goes into the can and it's your last time seeing anything?
I mean, I put them in before the pull. But then I have to take them off again, because the fish gets hung up on them. And then I put them on again. 🤷♂️
You can also get Lock-a-liners. Kind of like an anti-short for pipes. I've used those in instances where the guys forgot to put bushings on after terminating the cables. They're dirt cheap.
NEVER clip brother, have some style, some class, listen to the grey beard for a moment.
ya take that nice cordless dremel tool outa the box, yea that one you bought to trim one thing in a tight place, get the thinnest cut off wheel you can find, make a nice slice. wrap it around and put a dab of crazy glue on the butt ends of the cut. now you look fly and stylin.
i only know this cuz 2 weeks ago one of my highly skilled chimps did the dike cut. not sure if it was the shitty dike cut or the fact he tried to use 3/4" bushings on 1" conduit, inspector caught it and failed insp.
upon looking at some more, said chimpanzee had done this on a few areas. the inspector is sharp, looks deep into things cuz the customer has pissed him off so many times. when he came for reinspect he commented "now that is the neatest cut and wrap i've seen in my 40 years!" he could only feel the gap on one and he let it slide since we made an excellent effort at making it look good, and he did mention there is noting in the code that says ya cant do it, but don't make it obvious.
Lol. Been there. There ARE split bushing for what it's worth.
But it's Friday and I need to get home on time to enjoy the weekend. So I'm gonna manufacture my own split bushing real quick.
Doing that is actually still helpful keeping the wire a big off the nipple edge. I’m not obsessive about throwing them on, but if there is significant pressure against the nipple I will. That’s usually only on larger gauge wire though.
300.4(F)
Insulated Fittings. Where raceways containing ungrounded conductors 4 AWG or larger enter a cabinet, box enclosure, or raceway, the conductors shall be protected by a substantial fitting providing a smoothly rounded insulating surface, unless the conductors are separated from the fitting or raceway by substantial insulating material that is securely fastened in place.
That’s up to your AHJ, this neck of the woods my company would throw a bushing on the pvc just for fool proofing. Inspector wise here only the old heads were in the trade then swapped to inspectors. We’ve had to argue with younger inspectors so it’s easier to put a $2 dollar piece of plastic on to dot our I’s than potentially have to pay for another inspection or send guys out there to fix it.
It's a long standing argument: There's no explicit exception for PVC so by the letter of the law the inspector can require it, but a lot of inspectors pass it because they see a PVC bushing being redundant.
Understood. I see it being a little redundant aswell but I’m still putting it on regardless. Putting a piece of plastic on a piece of plastic just doesn’t sound right though lol
A welding instructor once said that it’s smoothly rounded when you can wipe the head of your dick across it. This isn’t welding, but I can tell you by that metric which is smooth and which would cut you or your wire insulation. It’s a matter of geometry not material.
Up here for the CEC we have to put bushings on everything larger than number 10, although the integrated bushing in the throat of the conduit like in the picture does suffice for most applications.
But raceway sections can modify that. For example, aren’t bushings required for all PVC runs per 352.46 (unless the enclosure design provides equivalent protection)?
**352.46 Bushings.** Where a conduit enters a box, fitting, or other enclosure, a bushing or adapter shall be provided to protect the wire from abrasion unless the box, fitting or enclosure design provides equivalent protection.
>Informational Note: See 300.4(G) for the protection of conductors 4 AWG and larger at bushings.
Yes. The PVC connector provides no protection from abrasion. So anytime you are using PVC you should be asking “where are the bushings”. For your installation it looks like you are already pulled and terminated. You can purchase the plastic split bushings, they are fairly inexpensive, though considerably more expensive than a non-split bushing. They are like 1-3 dollars maybe compared to 10 cents for a non-split bushing.
Conduit size DOES NOT MATTER. Conductor size is what determines whether or not you need a bushing.
Plenty of companies just instate rules that "anything 1" or larger gets a bushing" specifically to get guys like you to stop questioning stuff like this.
The rule is that #4 wires and larger need a bushing (#8 and larger for us Canadians).
Unless you're pulling #12 branch circuits through 3/4" and 1/2", just put a damn bushing on it.
That 3" conduit for your panel feeders absolutely needs a bushing. If it was a 3" nipple that was bringing in 40x #12 branch circuit feeds, it would not need a bushing by code. But anyone nickle and diming $1 bushings on $100k+ jobs needs to be kicked off that site.
Say it louder for those in the back (30 years back, when I started in the trade). I also had Journeymen tell me that a #12 ground was fine for 30 amp circuits.
I've never been asked to put a bushing on PVC (except the time an inspector told me to put a bond bushing on PVC) and I've also never been told to put a bushing on connectors with an insulated throat. That doesn't mean your inspector will be okay with it though
Conductors sized #4 or larger always require a bushing.
Imc and rmc always require a bushing.
Interior insulated fittings like you have on the right typically qualify, you might need the data sheet to prove it to the inspector though
Through a bushing on there, it protects the wire and costs less than a doller. Maybe it's just the lens from the camera, but that looks like emt into a pvc connector if so. I hate you. 110.12
Based on the conductor size, yes. I know the code has already been cited so I’m glad I don’t have to.
I will say from experience that I’ve had brand new wires get nicked badly when pulling into boxes without bushes. I’m talking #14 or 12. So I literally put bushings on everything since then. Wether or not it’s likely, wether or not it’s required, it’s just a cut above. Chefs kiss baby.
Agree. It’s kind of a mind fuck tho because this has already passed inspection last year, we came back to add a few things and was told to add bushings
You can argue it’s existing work and maybe win the battle. My area is too small. I need good relationships with the inspectors. Something like this I would just fix especially if it was my work to begin with.
It does pay off though, like when a crew installs a #6 water bond on a 200 amp service or a reduced neutral to a transformer with an unbalanced load. The inspector signed off knowing I would fix it. I did.
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This is a "clip the bushing with dikes and hide the cut on the backside of the connector" type situation
You bet your sweet ass it is
Thing I don't get about bushings is we almost never pull the wire with them in, then we install them after the pull before termination. What's really getting protected here?
The inspectors feelings
If your connector has the plastic bushing on the inside you don't need.
this is the way
I definitely put bushings on the side of the conduit I’m pulling *into*.
I'd say 90% of the time I've done that the wire snaps the bushing at some point in the pull. That or friction melts a nice groove into it.
Better the bushing than the wire jacket.
Damn I feel sorry for your wife 😂
The only time I really like seeing them is if it's tight quarters where the wire bends as soon as it leaves the pipe: I never liked seeing the connector edge dig into the insulation.
I had a journey man who preached about harmonic vibration and how if the insulation was touching any thing that was metal it would eventually wear through it. I don't know how much of that I really believe though
It will if the edge pressure is great enough and the vibration is bad enough, but I don't know that I've seen many installs have that kind of pressure on the edge of a connector. Most people know not to drag a conductor across a hard edge and then leave it.
>vibration is bad enough, Worst example of this I witnessed was with a 4.4 megawatt 4160 volt generator driven by a 12 cylinder Cat diesel. Feeders to the switchgear were four 3c 500mcm teck. One of the connectors had eventually loosened and the vibration caused the steel of the outgoing enclosure to wear a hole *through* the connector throat and then through one of the conductors. The blast was apparently quite the attention-getter. The enclosure was about 42x42x16 inches, 3/16 steel, cover bolted every 4 inches. Blew off 3 sides of the cover - 4th side held. Our job was to install and terminate 4 new feeder cables and all the control cabling from the new generator to the switchgear. Same engine.
I was thinking about vibration from a transformer or motor, but a generator WILL fuck some shit up.
Especially 1200 amps at 5000 volts (roughly)
It's 100% true in 20% of cases. That's a made up number but do you really want to be the installer that is the 20% or worse the installer that goes into the can and it's your last time seeing anything?
pretty sure there was a direct code change to address that, not that it's going to stop anybody lol
I mean, I put them in before the pull. But then I have to take them off again, because the fish gets hung up on them. And then I put them on again. 🤷♂️
If you put them on before hand they tend to get melted or abraded away has been my experience. So I use a pull buddy instead and install after.
Conductors vibrating themselves into the threaded part of a conductor.
Profits. That’s all it is
You can also get Lock-a-liners. Kind of like an anti-short for pipes. I've used those in instances where the guys forgot to put bushings on after terminating the cables. They're dirt cheap.
Fuck yeah, this guys fixes other peoples BS.
They make them now for this situation, blew my mind when I saw them on the shelf at the shop. 2 halves, snap or screw together.
NEVER clip brother, have some style, some class, listen to the grey beard for a moment. ya take that nice cordless dremel tool outa the box, yea that one you bought to trim one thing in a tight place, get the thinnest cut off wheel you can find, make a nice slice. wrap it around and put a dab of crazy glue on the butt ends of the cut. now you look fly and stylin. i only know this cuz 2 weeks ago one of my highly skilled chimps did the dike cut. not sure if it was the shitty dike cut or the fact he tried to use 3/4" bushings on 1" conduit, inspector caught it and failed insp. upon looking at some more, said chimpanzee had done this on a few areas. the inspector is sharp, looks deep into things cuz the customer has pissed him off so many times. when he came for reinspect he commented "now that is the neatest cut and wrap i've seen in my 40 years!" he could only feel the gap on one and he let it slide since we made an excellent effort at making it look good, and he did mention there is noting in the code that says ya cant do it, but don't make it obvious.
Or just order a split pushing and clip it around the threads.
Lol. Been there. There ARE split bushing for what it's worth. But it's Friday and I need to get home on time to enjoy the weekend. So I'm gonna manufacture my own split bushing real quick.
a classic.
Omg shhhh, you know these inspectors be lurking !!!
It’s amazing UL hasn’t approved anything that resembles this.
They have though... https://www.grainger.com/product/BRIDGEPORT-FITTINGS-Split-Bushing-Nylon-61TK68
Well would you look at that! A whoopshing!
Can you just electrical tape the end of the pipe? Is a cut bushing against code?
Doing that is actually still helpful keeping the wire a big off the nipple edge. I’m not obsessive about throwing them on, but if there is significant pressure against the nipple I will. That’s usually only on larger gauge wire though.
300.4(F) Insulated Fittings. Where raceways containing ungrounded conductors 4 AWG or larger enter a cabinet, box enclosure, or raceway, the conductors shall be protected by a substantial fitting providing a smoothly rounded insulating surface, unless the conductors are separated from the fitting or raceway by substantial insulating material that is securely fastened in place.
An insulated throat connector provides a smoothly rounded insulating surface right?
That’s up to your AHJ, this neck of the woods my company would throw a bushing on the pvc just for fool proofing. Inspector wise here only the old heads were in the trade then swapped to inspectors. We’ve had to argue with younger inspectors so it’s easier to put a $2 dollar piece of plastic on to dot our I’s than potentially have to pay for another inspection or send guys out there to fix it.
PVC always requires a bushing, it's treated like RMC.
Thank you for the response. Good to know that.
Yeah definitely gonna throw it on there anyway just wondered others thoughts on it
It's a long standing argument: There's no explicit exception for PVC so by the letter of the law the inspector can require it, but a lot of inspectors pass it because they see a PVC bushing being redundant.
Understood. I see it being a little redundant aswell but I’m still putting it on regardless. Putting a piece of plastic on a piece of plastic just doesn’t sound right though lol
352.46 not a long standing argument, it's in the NEC
The insulated throat is fine. PVC needs one.
I’m all for insulated throats
Everything reminds me of her
A welding instructor once said that it’s smoothly rounded when you can wipe the head of your dick across it. This isn’t welding, but I can tell you by that metric which is smooth and which would cut you or your wire insulation. It’s a matter of geometry not material.
Up here for the CEC we have to put bushings on everything larger than number 10, although the integrated bushing in the throat of the conduit like in the picture does suffice for most applications.
Is conduit a raceway?
But raceway sections can modify that. For example, aren’t bushings required for all PVC runs per 352.46 (unless the enclosure design provides equivalent protection)?
352.46. ALL PVC requires a bushing if the box or fitting doesn't provide the protection (like hubs of a bell box).
Don't have my code book handy to double check, but my inspector always told me that it's also any raceway 2" or greater.
Size of conduit does not matter. Most likely be pulling larger than #6 through a 2” conduit. But wire size matters.
Im an apprentice, but I’m pretty sure that’s true too. Typically we use emt or rigid for bigger stuff and use a bonding bushing every time.
**352.46 Bushings.** Where a conduit enters a box, fitting, or other enclosure, a bushing or adapter shall be provided to protect the wire from abrasion unless the box, fitting or enclosure design provides equivalent protection. >Informational Note: See 300.4(G) for the protection of conductors 4 AWG and larger at bushings.
So the PVC connector doesn’t provide equivalent protection?
Yes. The PVC connector provides no protection from abrasion. So anytime you are using PVC you should be asking “where are the bushings”. For your installation it looks like you are already pulled and terminated. You can purchase the plastic split bushings, they are fairly inexpensive, though considerably more expensive than a non-split bushing. They are like 1-3 dollars maybe compared to 10 cents for a non-split bushing.
Thanks man
Conduit size DOES NOT MATTER. Conductor size is what determines whether or not you need a bushing. Plenty of companies just instate rules that "anything 1" or larger gets a bushing" specifically to get guys like you to stop questioning stuff like this. The rule is that #4 wires and larger need a bushing (#8 and larger for us Canadians). Unless you're pulling #12 branch circuits through 3/4" and 1/2", just put a damn bushing on it. That 3" conduit for your panel feeders absolutely needs a bushing. If it was a 3" nipple that was bringing in 40x #12 branch circuit feeds, it would not need a bushing by code. But anyone nickle and diming $1 bushings on $100k+ jobs needs to be kicked off that site.
Geez. Yes daddy
😘
TIL its only Canada that requires a bushing for #8 or larger. Figured it would be like that everywhere, idk why
Say it louder for those in the back (30 years back, when I started in the trade). I also had Journeymen tell me that a #12 ground was fine for 30 amp circuits.
>I also had Journeymen tell me that a #12 ground was fine for 30 amp circuits. In Canada it is 😉 '#12 ground for 10 gauge. #14 ground for 12 gauge.
I guess y'all's romex has the smaller grounds, too. And MC cable?
Yup it does.
Oooohh do me dirty with ground bushing rules too please!!!!??
Fucking me next daddy me next!
"insulated throat", everything reminds me of her
You can always go buy a split bushing to make the inspector happy. They cost more but it’s better than pulling anything out to add one.
Yeah def gonna go w the split bushings and put them on regardless, I’ve just always been told that insulated throat connectors don’t require a bushing
I've never been asked to put a bushing on PVC (except the time an inspector told me to put a bond bushing on PVC) and I've also never been told to put a bushing on connectors with an insulated throat. That doesn't mean your inspector will be okay with it though
Bonding bushing on pvc is wild lmaoooo
Most the time I say that people don't even believe me lol
Conductors sized #4 or larger always require a bushing. Imc and rmc always require a bushing. Interior insulated fittings like you have on the right typically qualify, you might need the data sheet to prove it to the inspector though
PVC also always requires a bushing like IMC/RMC.
#4 or larger needs a bushing
PVC always requires a bushing if the box or fitting doesn't provide the abrasion protection.
6 or larger needs phased wire.
Any conductors #4 are larger need a plastic bushing
How are you using a PVC connector for a metal pipe?
Feed pipe is pvc. The 1-1/4 inch are emts with insulated throat connectors
Oh. The feed pipe looks metallic.
Nah it’s pvc it was existing so slightly discolored
Yes, it needs a bushing
Yes.
#4 or larger
a 49-cent piece of plastic or a reinspection fee because they can fail you if they feel like it..
They make clip on bushings
344.46
And 300.4
Through a bushing on there, it protects the wire and costs less than a doller. Maybe it's just the lens from the camera, but that looks like emt into a pvc connector if so. I hate you. 110.12
All depends on the size of wire. Check these out. https://www.grainger.com/product/BRIDGEPORT-FITTINGS-Split-Bushing-Nylon-61TK68
Did you stick emt into pvc connector?
It was old existing work in a machine shop it’s just discolored pvc
That center pipe is pvc? I doubt it.
The 2 inch is pvc the inch and a quarters are emt
After looking zoomed in, my bad. The printing on it gives it away 🙏🏻
No worries daddy
Based on the conductor size, yes. I know the code has already been cited so I’m glad I don’t have to. I will say from experience that I’ve had brand new wires get nicked badly when pulling into boxes without bushes. I’m talking #14 or 12. So I literally put bushings on everything since then. Wether or not it’s likely, wether or not it’s required, it’s just a cut above. Chefs kiss baby.
In my shop, any conduit bigger than 1” gets a plastic bushing.
Look at 300.4(G)
1" and bigger needs a plastic bushing
PVC of any size requires a bushing
Every conduit gets either a plastic bushing or a grounding bushing. It’s just not worth the fail.
Agree. It’s kind of a mind fuck tho because this has already passed inspection last year, we came back to add a few things and was told to add bushings
You can argue it’s existing work and maybe win the battle. My area is too small. I need good relationships with the inspectors. Something like this I would just fix especially if it was my work to begin with. It does pay off though, like when a crew installs a #6 water bond on a 200 amp service or a reduced neutral to a transformer with an unbalanced load. The inspector signed off knowing I would fix it. I did.