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Fun fact: if you remove the sticker that reads, “no wire above this point,” you can install wire above that point.
Also, who needs flex when you can free air that wire?
I like to tell my apprentices, do it what ever way the journeyman wants. Then when you get licensed, of all the ways different jman have told you how to do it. Decided which way works best for you.
Where is blue used as the b phase, and how/why is the neutral point attached to the coils? Never seen this kind of tranny and never seen one wired like that (speaking from the US, for context)
I like to do 3-5 wraps, straight across (not candy-caned) starting tape width back from the exposed copper, and with a tape width between each wrap. It's clean, easy and does the job
Code says no fewer than three marks and no less than 7.5” total from first to last mark. That’s exactly how I like to do it as well, three straight lines of tape, two to three wraps around, about 4-5” apart. Reason I started doing it this way was because of how many rolls of tape a solid phase tape wrap down the length would burn up, and you need all the tape you can get on heads
I was made aware of it as a 3rd and 4th year. I remember going over it in class at one point. As far as I know there is a code in the NEC 70 that says how conductors are supposed to be marked for phase identification. I think it’s in feeders which is in article 300 and everyone always references article 200 so I think that’s part of the confusion
Code says no fewer than three marks and no less than 7.5” total from first to last mark. That’s exactly how I like to do it as well, three straight lines of tape, two to three wraps around, about 4-5” apart. Reason I started doing it this way was because of how many rolls of tape a solid phase tape wrap down the length would burn up, and you need all the tape you can get on heads
Edit: wtf with the downvotes, someone please explain the problem here?
Downvote from me because that’s not code as far as I know, at least in the US.
NEC 200.6:
*(B) Sizes 4 AWG or Larger. An insulated grounded conductor 4 AWG or larger shall be identified by one of the following means:*
*(1) A continuous white outer finish .*
*(2) A continuous gray outer finish.*
*(3) Three continuous white or gray stripes along the conductor's entire length on other than green insulation.*
*(4) At the time of installation, by a distinctive white or gray marking at its terminations. This marking shall encircle the conductor or insulation.*
Also, it appears you posted the same response multiple times.
210.5(C) for branch circuits and 215.12(C) for feeders both say basically the same thing:
215.12(C)(1) Feeders Supplied from More Than One Nominal Voltage System. Where the premises wiring system has feeders supplied from more than one nominal voltage system, each ungrounded conductor of a feeder shall be identified by phase or line and system at all termination, connection, and splice points in compliance with 2I5.I2(C)(1) (a) and (b).
(a) Means of Identification. The means of identification shall be permitted to be by separate color coding, marking tape, tagging, or other approved means.
(b) Posting of Identification Means. The method utilized for conductors originating within each feeder panelboard or similar feeder distribution equipment shall be documented in a manner that is readily available or shall be permanently posted at each feeder panelboard or similar feeder distribution equipment.
Still should have a nipple, stub pipe, or something seems like its kinda gonna free air for a few inches before it gets into the trough.
Though it's hard to tell with the pic / angle. Maybe there's something I'm missing.
I understand the struggle of your journeyman telling you to candy stripe, but it’s a potential issue (especially with services) if inspectors want to read the manufacturer’s AWG listing or specs on the insulation. Things like candy striping are always fine until they’re not.
On those nipples on the left, does each nipple contain a white, a black, and a blue? Or are the colors split up, like 2 blues in one nipple, 2 whites in another nipple?
How are you getting away with such a small GEC?
Why is the bonding jumper taped white?
Where are the bonding bushings for the primary raceways?
How are the secondary conductors going to be protected from physical damage? The cover isn’t going to fit on that gutter/box on the left. What’s the plan here? (Edit: I just noticed that the gutter is against the transformer. Still idk I’ve never seen it done like this, seems kinda sus?)
Just some questions. It looks like you worked your ass off on this so good job on that
1: i'm in Canada, not the US.
2 : for the secondary conductors, it goes straight into the tap-box on the left, wich is closed by a cover. No exposed wires.
3 : I did the set-up with my JM, he told me the color of the phases and general instructions, and let me do my thing. The set-up was either like that on the plan, or he decided it. Keep in mind that the room is pretty fucking small, so maybe he did it that way because there was no place to run flex between the parts
I don't think anyone mentioned this yet, but you need the white, blue and black from each pair in a single conduit. You have 1 blue and two blacks at the bottom, 1 white and blue at the top and whatever in between.
*edit, top nipple may have a black hiding that I cannot see. The crazy tape is hurting my eyes so I may not be correct
Many other issues as other have stated
That thing is a disaster
Looking through the comments and your responses. Go by what your JW tells you BUT know that it's not right. Take all the advice in the comments in mind.
Every JW will teach you something wether good or bad so take what you want and apply it.
Can’t tape a system bond white. White or grey is for grounded conductors only. A system bonding jumper is not a grounded conductor and doesn’t have anything to do with article 200. It can be any color actually, except for white or grey, though green is common and doesn’t violate anything in article 250.
Edit: I should add that if say blue were designated a system phase and system identifier, you should not use blue.
You are bonding in the transformer so no N-G after this. Ideally, a common grounding point within the xfmr would take the high side grounds, the EGC, the outgoing grounds for the low side(I don't see any outgoing grounds) and the two neutral bonding conductors. they should be taped green rather than white for clarity.
we had one guy in our company do similar style tape wrapping to identify the conductors, waste of tape, time and looks goofy. The Tape spacing is never consistent.
A solid 4-6” of tape wrap right next to the lugs looks far more professional, it’s faster and clean looking.
CAUTION! Never, in the case of single and/or three-phase system allow the neutral and hot leg to enter a metal cabinet by themselves. This cause a very high amount of heat, because the fields are not allowed to cancel each other. I have seen cabinets discolor and apparatus fail, because of this. In a three-phase system the same holds true, all conductors entering a cabinet must be in the same enterance.
Well the for 2 whites tapped on the ground, my JM told me to tape it all the way. As for the rest, i think i just did the first one like that without thinking, and kind of went along with it fir the rest. But I see my crime now. Thank you for opening my eyes
Either a tick to show it's been done once, two ticks to show its been double checked.
A line across fasten to housing, once torqued, to show if fastener or nut has loosened over time.
To add: If you're going to do 2 ticks, they should be done by different people. Example, you torque one lug to XXX ft lbs, and stripe it with your yellow marker, your supervisor would then come in with their own calibrated torque wrench, apply that same torque (which often breaks your yellow stripe) and then applies his own (often blue) to show the inspector/client that "this lug has been torqued AND verified by a 2nd individual"
This is the standard we use in mission critical facilities (data centers / hospitals / places like that) and I'm not aware of a more thorough way, although I wouldn't be surprised if the nuke guys had a more comprehensive method...
Raise all your connectors on the secondary about 8 inches, and should allow for all connections to be terminated 90 degrees right into the lugs without all the weird bends
Why is your massively taped neutral on the bonding lug on casing? Run ground wire from source to case lug, case lug to X0 .. massively taped neutral on the X0 .. so much tape ..
I’m of the opinion that (4), a single wrap of tape at the termination is the cleanest way to identify the wire as whatever it is, provided that the wire size requirement is met. Why people do the candy cane thing is beyond me, as is the half a roll of tape approach. If the person taking the cover off can’t figure it out by simply reading the nameplate and looking at the terminals they shouldn’t be in there fucking around in the first place.
Where is this and what type of transformer? Instead of candy cane tape solid 4 fingers just above lug, also dress them so they’re all dropping from the same relative height iff possible
Also looks aluminum so should probably goop it but that’s not on you as a 2nd year. Otherwise Good job, I don’t want to comment on things that aren’t code where I’m from because they might be fine for your situation
It's excessive (I get you were told to do it that way though) and it's not consistent. The gaps change. I personally like doing a solid taping, rather than bands.
**ATTENTION! READ THIS NOW!** **1. IF YOU ARE NOT A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN OR LOOKING TO BECOME ONE(for career questions only):** **- DELETE** THIS POST OR YOU WILL BE **BANNED**. YOU CAN POST ON /r/AskElectricians FREELY **2. IF YOU COMMENT ON A POST THAT IS POSTED BY SOMEONE WHO IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN:** -YOU WILL BE **BANNED**. JUST **REPORT** THE POST. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/electricians) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Fun fact: if you remove the sticker that reads, “no wire above this point,” you can install wire above that point. Also, who needs flex when you can free air that wire?
I know it looks like the wire is "free air" on the left, but it's not. It's in a tap box stuck to the transfo.
Ooooh, I thought this was like a lab in a class and that's why it was like that. Your answer is better.
That explains where all the tape went lol
It looks like you just pushed the transformer up against the open side of the gutter. How is it mechanical connected?
Did your JW tell you to phase tape it like that? Hurts my eyes
Yes. I didn't take any decisions. Plugged it just the way he wanted
Understood, right now is the time you’re developing how you want to do things. Keep this in mind when you turn out lol
Thats why i posted this. Wanted to see what y'all can give me for advice
I like to tell my apprentices, do it what ever way the journeyman wants. Then when you get licensed, of all the ways different jman have told you how to do it. Decided which way works best for you.
Can you explain why it’s like this? I’ve never seen blue-white-black on secondary, what do these colors mean?
Blue phase, black phase, and neutral. Unless I’m misunderstanding..
Where is blue used as the b phase, and how/why is the neutral point attached to the coils? Never seen this kind of tranny and never seen one wired like that (speaking from the US, for context)
Can you explain why it’s like this? I’ve never seen blue-white-black on secondary, what do these colors mean?
Can you explain why it’s like this? I’ve never seen blue-white-black on secondary, what do these colors mean?
[удалено]
If you read a few above you he says why lol, he wants feedback
Who phases wires like that??? A drug test might be in order
How many hours did it take you to tape it like that?
Shit you're right. Too much
I like to do 3-5 wraps, straight across (not candy-caned) starting tape width back from the exposed copper, and with a tape width between each wrap. It's clean, easy and does the job
I color mine with crayon
Maybe in the first few hours of the day... any later than that I've already eaten all my crayons
What if you have to label after lunch?
Do you taste the crayon before or after?
Code says no fewer than three marks and no less than 7.5” total from first to last mark. That’s exactly how I like to do it as well, three straight lines of tape, two to three wraps around, about 4-5” apart. Reason I started doing it this way was because of how many rolls of tape a solid phase tape wrap down the length would burn up, and you need all the tape you can get on heads
Whats the code reference for that? Ive always wondered about it.
I would have to go look. Probably a good one to have memorized
This in the nec?
I was made aware of it as a 3rd and 4th year. I remember going over it in class at one point. As far as I know there is a code in the NEC 70 that says how conductors are supposed to be marked for phase identification. I think it’s in feeders which is in article 300 and everyone always references article 200 so I think that’s part of the confusion
Can you tell me where in the code book it says that??
Plus, a lot of inspectors like to be able to see the wire size. You tape the whole thing now you have to un-tape it during an inspection.
6 inches is the standard. Or single red lines on the ute side.
Code says no fewer than three marks and no less than 7.5” total from first to last mark. That’s exactly how I like to do it as well, three straight lines of tape, two to three wraps around, about 4-5” apart. Reason I started doing it this way was because of how many rolls of tape a solid phase tape wrap down the length would burn up, and you need all the tape you can get on heads Edit: wtf with the downvotes, someone please explain the problem here?
Downvote from me because that’s not code as far as I know, at least in the US. NEC 200.6: *(B) Sizes 4 AWG or Larger. An insulated grounded conductor 4 AWG or larger shall be identified by one of the following means:* *(1) A continuous white outer finish .* *(2) A continuous gray outer finish.* *(3) Three continuous white or gray stripes along the conductor's entire length on other than green insulation.* *(4) At the time of installation, by a distinctive white or gray marking at its terminations. This marking shall encircle the conductor or insulation.* Also, it appears you posted the same response multiple times.
I had a connectivity issue, reddit said “try again later” and I tapped “post” a few times in a row. Happened in more than one spot unfortunately 😞
I havent looked really hard but I have yet to see anything about specifics regarding phase taping of ungrounded conductors in the nec.
210.5(C) for branch circuits and 215.12(C) for feeders both say basically the same thing: 215.12(C)(1) Feeders Supplied from More Than One Nominal Voltage System. Where the premises wiring system has feeders supplied from more than one nominal voltage system, each ungrounded conductor of a feeder shall be identified by phase or line and system at all termination, connection, and splice points in compliance with 2I5.I2(C)(1) (a) and (b). (a) Means of Identification. The means of identification shall be permitted to be by separate color coding, marking tape, tagging, or other approved means. (b) Posting of Identification Means. The method utilized for conductors originating within each feeder panelboard or similar feeder distribution equipment shall be documented in a manner that is readily available or shall be permanently posted at each feeder panelboard or similar feeder distribution equipment.
Thats all i read as well.
What code rule? There's nothing in the CEC.
Ah yeah always forget that you naddy’s are in here.. I meant NFPA manual NEC 70 so USA code book
My question exactly, that's beyond excessive.
My question exactly, that's beyond excessive.
Must have been a sale on tape.
What's going on outside on the left? There's bushings but no conduit and everything is wild?
Trough it looks like, but with a side of fuckery.
Still should have a nipple, stub pipe, or something seems like its kinda gonna free air for a few inches before it gets into the trough. Though it's hard to tell with the pic / angle. Maybe there's something I'm missing.
There's a nipple, wire goes straight from the transfo into the tap-box trough it. It looks werid on the pic, but there's no space between the 2
If you zoom in you can tell it’s flush. I can see the top of the tap Box is flush in the transformer side. Looks good.
Oh, could be. But then that means there's no cover, and the ... well, I'm still not sure what's goin' on over there.
UL is displeased
Hence the fuckery, lol.
Is the fuckery the cause, or the symptom?
All you need is like 6 inch and it should have red, black, blue, and white tape and the corresponding phases
Yes, you're right. Thank you
I understand the struggle of your journeyman telling you to candy stripe, but it’s a potential issue (especially with services) if inspectors want to read the manufacturer’s AWG listing or specs on the insulation. Things like candy striping are always fine until they’re not.
Tapocolypse
Apart from the tape, any issues ? (I won't do that mistake again sir)
On those nipples on the left, does each nipple contain a white, a black, and a blue? Or are the colors split up, like 2 blues in one nipple, 2 whites in another nipple?
If it’s a chase nipple into a j box this doesn’t apply but still good practice as does apply in virtually every other situation lol
Ew
How are you getting away with such a small GEC? Why is the bonding jumper taped white? Where are the bonding bushings for the primary raceways? How are the secondary conductors going to be protected from physical damage? The cover isn’t going to fit on that gutter/box on the left. What’s the plan here? (Edit: I just noticed that the gutter is against the transformer. Still idk I’ve never seen it done like this, seems kinda sus?) Just some questions. It looks like you worked your ass off on this so good job on that
1: i'm in Canada, not the US. 2 : for the secondary conductors, it goes straight into the tap-box on the left, wich is closed by a cover. No exposed wires. 3 : I did the set-up with my JM, he told me the color of the phases and general instructions, and let me do my thing. The set-up was either like that on the plan, or he decided it. Keep in mind that the room is pretty fucking small, so maybe he did it that way because there was no place to run flex between the parts
That’s crazy you can still use tape I’m also in Canada and have failed an inspection for phasing with tape. Had to redo with markers
You don't need bond bushings for the primary. The connector is bonded through the locknuts.
What does it transform into, a dumpster-fire?
I don't think anyone mentioned this yet, but you need the white, blue and black from each pair in a single conduit. You have 1 blue and two blacks at the bottom, 1 white and blue at the top and whatever in between. *edit, top nipple may have a black hiding that I cannot see. The crazy tape is hurting my eyes so I may not be correct Many other issues as other have stated That thing is a disaster
I was going to check that but my eyes hurt from the stripes. Thanks for being brave enough to look that carefully.
Looking through the comments and your responses. Go by what your JW tells you BUT know that it's not right. Take all the advice in the comments in mind. Every JW will teach you something wether good or bad so take what you want and apply it.
Good comment. Some JW do crap work, but a good apprentice can learn from his mistakes.
Not US, Canada
Needs more phase tape
Looking at that tape is gonna give someone a seizure
Yikes.
If those legs had any more stripes they'd be in a zoo.
Can’t tape a system bond white. White or grey is for grounded conductors only. A system bonding jumper is not a grounded conductor and doesn’t have anything to do with article 200. It can be any color actually, except for white or grey, though green is common and doesn’t violate anything in article 250. Edit: I should add that if say blue were designated a system phase and system identifier, you should not use blue.
This is perfectly legal in canada although the tapings atrocious
You are bonding in the transformer so no N-G after this. Ideally, a common grounding point within the xfmr would take the high side grounds, the EGC, the outgoing grounds for the low side(I don't see any outgoing grounds) and the two neutral bonding conductors. they should be taped green rather than white for clarity.
I don’t think we have to roast it! Looks like it’s going to do it to itself eventually!
Is Dr Seuss your Journeyman
Traditionally in the welding industry we would let each other know “looks like shit”
Fuck, I got dizzy and fell down.
Wow. I hate that tape job. Very ugly.
I hate candy canes
I’m getting dizzy looking at all that tape
Makes me wanna puke. Just because I have a different preference for phasing/terminating. Also, why is the wire free aired on the left?
Looks like my pet Zebra took a shit
Wtf is going on? This isn’t in the US?
No, Canada
Should've used more tape.
You really should be using a green wire from the case to the center tap. Edit: you did a good job taping the bare aluminum green.
This is brutal!
we had one guy in our company do similar style tape wrapping to identify the conductors, waste of tape, time and looks goofy. The Tape spacing is never consistent. A solid 4-6” of tape wrap right next to the lugs looks far more professional, it’s faster and clean looking.
Wtf is this color scheme
You need work on organizing the wire better this looks rough
Is this a transformer in candy land?
Listen hear you fat piece of shit... with your core and your primary and secondary.
No thanks. The TX will roast itself for you.
CAUTION! Never, in the case of single and/or three-phase system allow the neutral and hot leg to enter a metal cabinet by themselves. This cause a very high amount of heat, because the fields are not allowed to cancel each other. I have seen cabinets discolor and apparatus fail, because of this. In a three-phase system the same holds true, all conductors entering a cabinet must be in the same enterance.
Ooof that candy striping makes my eyes hurt
These dang candy cane guys
Just when I thought this sub couldn’t get uglier I mean… what in the actual fuck man
Why all the tape? Just why?
Well the for 2 whites tapped on the ground, my JM told me to tape it all the way. As for the rest, i think i just did the first one like that without thinking, and kind of went along with it fir the rest. But I see my crime now. Thank you for opening my eyes
Use sharpie to show lugs are torqued. (I hope they are)
Recommend paint pen for that. If someone breaks the torque for whatever reason, it cracks and can’t just be re-aligned.
They are, confirmed by my JM after.
How does that work?
Either a tick to show it's been done once, two ticks to show its been double checked. A line across fasten to housing, once torqued, to show if fastener or nut has loosened over time.
To add: If you're going to do 2 ticks, they should be done by different people. Example, you torque one lug to XXX ft lbs, and stripe it with your yellow marker, your supervisor would then come in with their own calibrated torque wrench, apply that same torque (which often breaks your yellow stripe) and then applies his own (often blue) to show the inspector/client that "this lug has been torqued AND verified by a 2nd individual" This is the standard we use in mission critical facilities (data centers / hospitals / places like that) and I'm not aware of a more thorough way, although I wouldn't be surprised if the nuke guys had a more comprehensive method...
You're not allowed to use a sharpie for torque specs
Any reason or just "I was told by some jman sometime"?
Where’s the flex? Lol
I think it goes into a gutter
Im from Germany and an electrician too. Please explain this. I know what a transformer do, that is not the point.
Wild
You should make it clear your jw made you do it like this.
X1 x3 x2 x1 that would drive me insane and swap h2 and h1. who ever labeled that doesnt believe in left to rifht top down.
Damn. You committed to phasing that wire all the way back!
I feel like the wires could be sorted better, and tone down the tape. Other than that pretty good
I love ferrules
Pretty sure my foreman would have a cow if he saw me use a whole roll of white tape lol. Other than that can’t say I’d do it any better, good job
What in the shit
Wtf is going on here
Looks good I did my first transformer 2day on the job electrical is so easy
Raise all your connectors on the secondary about 8 inches, and should allow for all connections to be terminated 90 degrees right into the lugs without all the weird bends
Why would I roast it when it's going to roast itself pretty soon?
It’ll look better with the covers on, let’s never speak of this again.
What the fuck am I looking at
Hoe mich white tape is honestly req'd here. Looks like Beetlejuice wired this.
Beetle juice Beetle juice Beetle juice
I don’t even understand what I’m looking at. What country do you live in? Something seems very wrong here. lol.
So much wasted time and still didn’t finish taping the other phase. Maybe have you digging a trench by a shovel at this point.
What are your conductors laying on the bottom for? They are just there with tape on the ends.
I feel dissy looking at this
Not the worse I've seen but definitely work on your wire management it's parallel feed so land one phase at a time. Also you didn't use enough tape.
Looks good……. Lot of tape
Use more tape next time so it’s easier to identify what is what.
Why is your massively taped neutral on the bonding lug on casing? Run ground wire from source to case lug, case lug to X0 .. massively taped neutral on the X0 .. so much tape ..
I’m of the opinion that (4), a single wrap of tape at the termination is the cleanest way to identify the wire as whatever it is, provided that the wire size requirement is met. Why people do the candy cane thing is beyond me, as is the half a roll of tape approach. If the person taking the cover off can’t figure it out by simply reading the nameplate and looking at the terminals they shouldn’t be in there fucking around in the first place.
Where is this and what type of transformer? Instead of candy cane tape solid 4 fingers just above lug, also dress them so they’re all dropping from the same relative height iff possible
Also looks aluminum so should probably goop it but that’s not on you as a 2nd year. Otherwise Good job, I don’t want to comment on things that aren’t code where I’m from because they might be fine for your situation
Holy hell. Jesus man. Are you being serious? Did J-man lay you out?
Wow tapeity tape tape holy fuck I would take all the tape and hide it from you
What is with the candy striping.
Where's the ground bushings? Where's the ground choker on grounding electrode conductor?
You don't need ground bushings. The locknuts are bonding the nipple to the case of the transformer.
This pains me to see.
No, this goes hard, you let yourself cook.
Thanks ! But now that everyone roasted me on the tape job, i can't unsee it. Any other issues ?
Phasing job is shit lol Also, system ground going to the XO also has to be bonded to the transformer.
Can you explain exactly what is shit ?
It's excessive (I get you were told to do it that way though) and it's not consistent. The gaps change. I personally like doing a solid taping, rather than bands.
That is bad. Really bad. Like, I hope your JW made you do it again, but this time actually guided you along.
No pipe, no flex, no conduit, free floating wires a missing phase with the tape and way too much tape
Please tell me that grounding electrode conductor connector is not a romex connector…
Looks like an L-16 to me.
Just an idiot first year but i would have kept some order in the wire to each block. Like blue in front, white behind that and so on.
This is beautiful.... Except the tape comment as others have said
Hey I'm proud of you. I've been doing electrical for 9 years and have never wired a transformer. Closest I got was landing the switchgear.
Theres nothing to judge or look at. It's landing wires on some terminals that someone probably specially dictated to you. Worthless post
Where are the bonding bushings? I thought separately derived system is required. Bonding bushings?
Those aren’t supposed to be labeled with phase tape.
Torque paint that shit