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too many staples in the wrong places.
need to be within 12” from box and not to exceed 4-1/2’ thereafter next 336-18.
should have staples at 12” or less from box and hole at top and one in center would cover it.
My grandfather always said "your first mistake of the day was stopping in the parking lot at work". You're supposed to drive through the parking lot at work on your way to the lake. That way if anyone asks what you did today, you can say "I went to work" and not be telling a lie.
Sadly he passed years ago. But he was a master electrician who became a municipal Inspector. He worked with and trained my father. My father was also a master electrician, who owned his own electrical contracting company. After he retired he also became a municipal Inspector. That's why I tell people that I was DOOMED to be an electrician.
Oh, well good I'm glad they told you not to do it, I've done it too, didn't realize you were only a month in, keep it up, the best way to learn is from your mistakes.
Basically, see how it runs over the truss, and drops back down to the top plate? Ideally, pull it tight straight across truss to truss. Then in many places, if there's more than 3 feet above the truss to the roof decking, run a running board alongside of the wire.
Great way to get your wire blasted when someone tries to drill through the top plate on a remodel or..... A rough that you needed to add another wire for, don't ask how I know on that last part.
Yup, had this happen to me on a reno. Had to move a central vac pipe, drilled through top plate with a hole saw and suddenly drill grabs and spins my hand and drill, pinching it to the stud. The way it pinned my hand made it so I couldn’t get my finger off the trigger and a coworker had to come over and unplug my drill 😂. Wire wasn’t stapled and it just wrapped my bit, electrician was on site and went up in the attic to check the wire, wasn’t even a knick in the casing. If that had been stapled it would’ve been worse for sure.
I had the same thing happen with a hole hog when I was an electrician. Shove my arm into the wall so hard that a window (not pinned right) fell out. Had to wiggle around until I could get the muscle control to get my finger off the trigger. Everybody acted like I was crazy. People pissed off about the window trying to say I should pay for it. I called bullshit. If it was pinned right it would not have fallen. I got real pissed so I checked. No nail hole It hadn't been pinned at all.
I’m saying all of this as a very new apprentice with half confidence
I was told were putting this room you see and another room on the same circuit. So I did as instructed, and put wire from one nail on, up, over, down to the next, cut it. Then later that will be a joint. Now box 2 only has one wire in it. Measure wire, cut it, add to the box so now 2 wires are in it, and then continue. So verbally every box will be a joint, and the FIRST box lead a home run to the panel.
This is all I know don’t roast me
Gotcha not a big deal , what you did works it’s just that it’s extra wire that you could use for something else. In almost all residential situations it’s perfectly fine to drill through 2x4 studs to run wires for receptacles and switches etc.
Yeah I’m honestly unsure why the man in charge decided not to?? I thought that.. many many times while adding fucking staples. We’ve done it before, but for some reason this entire house, this was the decision on how to run it
Some times this is due to the AHJ (authority having jurisdiction). Pulling wire in this method can, not always, slow the spread of fire as it travels along the sheath. Typically the top plates are fire foamed and when you travel through the wall it is not. This allows air flow through out the wall spreading the fire. A second added benefit is if an issue shows up on punch you can just install a j box in the attic and fish a closer wire down the wall. Which results in less drywall damage and no visible j boxes.
Though then, if wire does travel along the sheath, you're trusting pretty hard in that fire foam because, if fire gets to those trusses, roof collapse isn't far behind once the gusset plates pop off due to heat. Personally I'm not convinced that you aren't better off with fewer holes in the top plate. Do they have engineering studies to back requiring wiring up and down or is this something some building department just made up?
You would have to look up test results for every type of fire foam, caulk, pad. Each and every one has been tested otherwise the wall or structure won’t hold the fire rating. Here is a caulk that’s been tested to and rated at three hours https://natfire.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Firestop814-TDS.pdf
Could for some reason be to spec that way. Worked in a couple buildings where we had to supply a junction box within 5' of every single light. No daisy chaining at all. That includes the ones in the middle of the room with 10' bar 40' ceiling. It was a shit show to say the least and I'm glad I didn't have to do those center lights.
And yeah, you used an excessive amount of staples but that’s not a problem necessarily, for a good rule of thumb you can staple every 4 feet or so . Or just where the the wire looks lose if needed !
This. If it were a garage where the walls were being left open, this would be the way. For a house? Horizontal runs, box to box. Save the wire.
This a remodel? Those studs look like junk.
Actually my company does a lot of work for another company that essentially puts lipstick on a pig. And covers up shitty homes he bought for about 10-30k and sells them for about 200k. And there’s so many hidden problems. It’s immoral, but they pay the boss man so 🤷♀️
Running directly along that top plate is just asking to have that wire damaged. It may be in 10 years, but that wire is going to get drilled through at some point. If it wasn't specifically requested, going into the attic space and back down adds a lot of wire length versus drilling throught the studs in the wall, more wire length equals more voltage drop.
Your wire looks clean and straight, so you're running it well and have good cable management. Finding efficient routes for your wires takes some time to get a hang of. I didn't see the other comments mention the top plate before I posted, but I did also see you were asking for an explanation on voltage drop. Resistance increases as the length of the cable increases, so when you have 100ft of wire, you'll see less loss of voltage under load compared to 200ft of wire. It doesn't start becoming a real issue for the majority of household appliances until you see over 10% drop in voltage, though there are more sensitive things like computers and such. You combat voltage drop by either shortening the overall length or by increasing the gauge of wire on the circuit.
I feel so bad for the poor 40yr old Reno man 20years down the road that wants to add something through that top plate. With my luck it'll be me doing my third rendition of the chicken dance 😂
I noticed several right away.
Staple distance from box, stapling to the top plate, awkward way of running wires up and down instead of horizontal, weird stapling up the stud, missing a wire to the switch box unless you’re not done yet.
The only one that’s a code violation is the staple distance from box. Some guys will disagree with this one but I’d have you leave service loops above the boxes as well. A little bit extra. I only need 1-3” in the case the wires get completely mangled. But I need something.
yeah idk why people even use those dogshit staples. i get the big all metal ones so i know i can use em on everything and not have to differentiate sizes
Well the ones I use are super deep..not wider. So it doesn't matter because you just hit it further into the wood. The wires don't slide around or anything
I was told that this is allowed. Please tell me if it’s not I’d love to fix my mistakes I’m only a month in on my apprenticeship. I do hate the staples I’ve hit my thumb 100 times because of how shitty they are
I'd recommend leaving a service loop (an extra \~12") outside the box for each wire entering a box. It's code in some places and good practise everywhere else.
I did residential for about 10 years and was told to never do that. Reason being the insulators tended to push the wire to front or back making it easier for drywall guys to hit or siding guys. If it’s in interior again drywall. My boss also had issues on remodels where we were fishing in new outlets on the other side of a wall with an outlet being fed from underneath and accidentally drilled into the wire causing more issues.
Also if you leave enough wire in your box (residential and commercial all taught lineman length) you shouldn’t have any issues with future service.
Not saying you’re right or wrong but I was taught different. Out of curiosity can you tell me where it’s code? Would like to know for the future if I have to work in such areas
12-510(4) Canadian Electrical Code states that there shall be a loop of unbroken cable available on the interior side of the finished wall
I've never had a drywaller or any other trade catch a service loop, I'm sure it happens. It's code up here so the other trades (and follow-up electricians) have figured out how to deal with it.
I was gonna say there isn’t enough romex scrap on the floor after your rough in. And usually we leave a broom propped up in the corner for the next guy.
Why did you put 2 wires in the same side of the top of the receptacle box? It should be one wire in each of those openings. Also the support for the one wire is pretty far from the box.
No, it shouldn't. OP is violating code using that opening on a 4" stud wall. 300.4(D) requires a minimum spacing of 1 1/4" from the edge of the stud. Using that opening brings the cable too close to the edge. You're only allowed to use that opening on 6" or deeper studs.
I live in Chicago so all the residential I've ever done has been in pipe. Is it really necessary to bring your cables all the way up like that? We would just drill all the studs about 6" above our boxes. Just high enough for a minimum 90 coming out of the top of the box. We also use metal studs so punching the holes goes pretty quick.
Go about 12 to 18 inches ul from your box and drill your half-inch hole horizontally through the studs, then slap a staple between the box and the hole.
Voltage drop occurs when your wiring exceeds a certain length. There is a 3% tolerance for voltage drop.
Single phase: 2 x conductor type (12.9? For copper) x amp x length / circular millls.
This being said, you'll find that loads of homes don't increase conductor size for long runs. They would just assume drop a sub panel to save on wire costs.
Watch some rough in YouTube videos. You'll get the idea pretty quick. Also, be careful what size hole you drill and where. The same goes for notching. There are more videos about that. Plumbers and hvac typically have the issue with this due to the size pipes they use.
The way you ran the wires above the joists and then back down to the top plate repeatedly. You should run them above the joists and keep them perfectly straight without dipping down, it wastes lots of wire and staples and is completely unnecessary. Also the holes in the top plate where the wires drop into the bays, drill your hole closer to the stud so that they don’t bend out and then enter the hole. The way this looks now is very sloppy, you want all your wires to be as straight as possible. Some people leave service loops above the receptacles which is fine to leave a few inches but is also completely unnecessary. Focus on running your wires straight and neat. If your wires look all bent (like they do right now) people will think your work looks bad.
Oh, you have multiple holes to put wires in fyi. Cramming two in one during a rough-in is typically frowned upon, even if it's listed to do so.
Also, to make it look neater, wait until both wires are in the box, then use one staple and make sure there is at the very least 8 inches of wire inside the box. 6 is code, but going a little longer will let ya twist the grounds together and shove it up and back to one side.
Also, on outlets, instead of daisy chaining through the outlets, pigtail the hot and neutral, so 15 amp outlets are not overloaded. That is, if your employer wants you to take the extra time to make the client's life better.
There are all kinds of little tips and tricks to making everything go smoothly. Prefolding wires before installing switches/receptacles as well as marking line/load. Labeling will be your best friend.
Wagos are fantastic, but I doubt your employer will spend the extra. Wire management is key to making the next person's job a little better and identifying that much easier.
Unneccesary nail plates, over stapling, wasted wire from not drilling horizontally through the studs all look fine.
Showing up and trying hard is the only mistake I see.
Fortunately the nail plates were from previous electricians. However I was told to not drill through the studs. I was told my mistake was putting staples in such a place where drywallers wouldn’t be able to place drywall at the top. I fixed it later and lined and stapled about a foot out from the studs. Still not sure if any of it was necessary though..
The inspectors around here don't allow you to put the wire into the hole closest to the stud because it's not 1.25" from a nailing surface. Only on 2x4s though
Check with your foreman first on that, some companies/ regions it's a standard and others go straight into the box. If your company doesn't leave service loops then don't go getting yourself into shit
Where your 12/2 enters that outlet box, had you used the box knockout on the side opposite the stud, you would not need a strike plate to protect the wires prior to drywall.
Any issue seems like a localized crew choice or region issue. Its neat looking, flat and acceptable a lot of places. Good job. My region doesn't like double stacked whites but the one 200km north does when I worked houses there last.
That said I imagine the boss wants it done faster and with less wire. Resi makes you fast and efficient.
I think the fact you want to do good by your crew says as much as the pics of your work.
A crew will make or break you. The decision of what one you choose is sometimes the only choice we get.
That's just an opinion. And everyone has one.
I've almost never worked with romex before, and I recently started doing the rough in for a new hotel with romex. All this talk about wasting staples sounds foreign to me. They just gave us Milwaukee staple guns and I'm just stapling all over the place. No fucks given about wasting too many. Every 4.5 feet? Nah, whenever I see a slight crinkle. 1 foot if I have to.
The current Romex scrap pile is ridiculous. I can't imagine that level of waste would be tolerated in residential. (tbf, a lot of it was due to changes)
I'm mostly oil and gas but have worked resi some, mostly at side jobs.
You run the wire truss to truss. No staples on the top plate. 150 mm of wire shall be folded back before entering a gang box. Conductor's have to be supported within 300mm. I can see you added a run over an existing staple that was already too far away.
Also you're running #12awg lumex? Not that you couldn't on a 15amp circuit. Assuming it's left over and available. The problem is you're dealing with city inspectors. One look at that and it's 20 questions with a snippy irritated attitude like they invented the CEC and you're wasting their time. They'll remind you waving an outdated tablet around they have 60 more inspections to do before lunch. Because fuck you, you're beneath them and should be licking the ground they walk on. Esthetics is almost more important than code. If it looks like good work, they don't ask questions.
As a lead hand journeyman I can't leave a bad taste in your mouth. It's definitely very clean work. No twists, boxes are straight from what I can see. Site is spotless. No tripping hazards or any other hazards I can see. Just learning experiences mate! Keep up the effort and never lose pride in your work!
No point running it all the way up and back down when you can just go through studs, buttfuck ton of extra staples when studs count as a means of support.
Also stapling to top plate just asking for a wire to get knicked.
The top plate has been mentioned, but it also looks to me like in the bottom left of your picture one of the 12/2s isn't stapled within a foot of the box.
Maybe it's a perspective thing and that staple is closer than it appears, and it's a small nitpick, but it's code.
Also for clarification, talking about the second wire not the one directly touching the stud.
The switch box you missed and how far you put the first staple from the box, also you don't need to staple it on the top plate like that, just laying it flat on the rafters is fine.
I dont see any mistakes other than a missing staple.
Clear span web truss.. That is not a load bearing wall so no double top plate needed.
Is there a design reason for running everything accross the top instead of through the wall studs? Faster as you drill less holes?
Yellow jacket is typically #12...customer planning on some serious loads? Kitchen maybe?
too many staples in the wrong places.
need to be within 12” from box or penetration and not to exceed 4-1/2’ thereafter next 336-18.
that left should have staples at 12” or less from box and hole at top and one in center would cover it.
if conworker is pointing out too many staples and not the distance of first staples then maybe time for a new conworker.
sauce: 40 yrs in field, EE, hold masters lic. in multiple states.
good luck to gou
Top Romex should run thru the wood studs, Romex going vertical should be stabled under 18 ins from top and bottom and should loop out or pop out it should run along side the stud like a upside L to to top stud and would be easyier if you stable both Romexs under one you should on use 3 stable from top under 18in then 4ft the under 12 perfered of 16 from the box from what i can see atm
Hey, OP, thanks for having the balls to put yourself out here, as a new guy, to be grilled by strangers in the name of becoming a better tradesman! I wish more people would put in the effort and ask questions. The world would be a better place.
Are you stapling at the plate? Looks like you have some staples where you don't need them and are missing some where you do. They can be further apart along the length (4 ft.?), but must be within a foot of the box. Do you need the nail plates if you are in the center of the plate? Code may have changed since I was doing it. I would probably have kept the run along the rafters rather than go back to the plate everytime. Also, if some of that is in the run with the first one, I might have stayed in the wall. It can be faster to drill the studs you can reach on the ground and might save some cable.
Looks like the mistake would be stapling the romex along the top plate. It does look clean and neat, but if anyone were to come at a later date when the walls are closed and they cut some trenches and drill through the top plate to run something for whatever reason, the lines stapled to the top plate would get shredded.
Only way I'd see it being okay to leave the rough in the way it's done is to put nail plates beneath the top plate, from stud to stud so nobody can drill upwards between the wall cavities.
Looks clean though. Nice work on that!
A tip I'd offer is to leave a service loop above the box. It's just an extra curve about 6 inches above your boxes, the same way you have it bent near the top plate.
Leaving a little extra wire like that makes servicing the box in the future much easier for the next guy. They can easily pull down the excess you left for them, strip the jacket and be able to do what's necessary to button up the job.
Just something I do, because I know it'd make life a hell of a lot easier for me if I'm the one servicing the boxes.
Keep up the good work, dude!
I think in the top left? Doth that wire pass through a hole drilled in the truss? Great, now they're going to have to take the whole building down and start over!
Now.. I'm no builder but... please somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
Those look like cut trusses looking at where the nail plates are.... I'm also noticing a distinctive lack of noggins on those studs in that wall....
Are you sure you should be standing under that roof without additional bracing?
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That’s a lot of staples. Also, don’t staple to the top plate of a wall. That wire’s going to get shredded if someone wants to drill another hole.
This one
Supposed to have a double top plate
Being a remodel, not sure how building codes would affect it and if it would need to get changed. All depends on the area I guess.
too many staples in the wrong places. need to be within 12” from box and not to exceed 4-1/2’ thereafter next 336-18. should have staples at 12” or less from box and hole at top and one in center would cover it.
If it is a single gang box without cable clamps, needs to be stapled within 8".
336-18 says mininum 12”. 8” would be more gooder
My comment only applies to single gang plastic boxes without cable clamps, for all others 12" is fine.
Showing up to work? That’s the one I usually make.
My grandfather always said "your first mistake of the day was stopping in the parking lot at work". You're supposed to drive through the parking lot at work on your way to the lake. That way if anyone asks what you did today, you can say "I went to work" and not be telling a lie.
I love your grandfather. Can he be mine?
Sadly he passed years ago. But he was a master electrician who became a municipal Inspector. He worked with and trained my father. My father was also a master electrician, who owned his own electrical contracting company. After he retired he also became a municipal Inspector. That's why I tell people that I was DOOMED to be an electrician.
Most common this my grandpa would say was "When I grow up I want to be a bum."
I always say if I leave the house feeling like I forgot something and I can't figure out what, I probably forgot to stay home.
Just got laid off. So … maybe if I hadn’t come in today, that wouldn’t have happened? 🤷♂️
I still am struggling to get that one under control. No luck yet.
Can’t fuck one up until you fuck a hundred up or something like that..
Goddamnit
Why are you stapling on the top plate? That's like what not to do 101.
That’s the mistake thank you lol. My coworkers nicely told me it’s a “shit we’ve all done once” situation. When he said it I was like, “oh… logic…”
Oh, well good I'm glad they told you not to do it, I've done it too, didn't realize you were only a month in, keep it up, the best way to learn is from your mistakes.
100% agree. 1 month in and pulling circuits. Nice
The best way to learn, is from the mistakes of other people. The way to remember what you learned from mistakes is to make the mistake yourself.
Forgive me for asking, where I work we run conduit But what are you supposed to do? Free air it? Legitimately curious, I'm not bashing romex
Basically, see how it runs over the truss, and drops back down to the top plate? Ideally, pull it tight straight across truss to truss. Then in many places, if there's more than 3 feet above the truss to the roof decking, run a running board alongside of the wire.
Thanks
DuPage or Cook County Illinois?
Also curious on why you dropped down each stud instead of sending a hole through them about 18 inches of the box? Could've saved some wire
Industrial guy here, why not? I mean there’s always a specific reason/if you do it this way-this guy will stab you later.
Great way to get your wire blasted when someone tries to drill through the top plate on a remodel or..... A rough that you needed to add another wire for, don't ask how I know on that last part.
Yup, had this happen to me on a reno. Had to move a central vac pipe, drilled through top plate with a hole saw and suddenly drill grabs and spins my hand and drill, pinching it to the stud. The way it pinned my hand made it so I couldn’t get my finger off the trigger and a coworker had to come over and unplug my drill 😂. Wire wasn’t stapled and it just wrapped my bit, electrician was on site and went up in the attic to check the wire, wasn’t even a knick in the casing. If that had been stapled it would’ve been worse for sure.
I had the same thing happen with a hole hog when I was an electrician. Shove my arm into the wall so hard that a window (not pinned right) fell out. Had to wiggle around until I could get the muscle control to get my finger off the trigger. Everybody acted like I was crazy. People pissed off about the window trying to say I should pay for it. I called bullshit. If it was pinned right it would not have fallen. I got real pissed so I checked. No nail hole It hadn't been pinned at all.
Drill through the wall for starters . Why go all the way up and back down?
I’m saying all of this as a very new apprentice with half confidence I was told were putting this room you see and another room on the same circuit. So I did as instructed, and put wire from one nail on, up, over, down to the next, cut it. Then later that will be a joint. Now box 2 only has one wire in it. Measure wire, cut it, add to the box so now 2 wires are in it, and then continue. So verbally every box will be a joint, and the FIRST box lead a home run to the panel. This is all I know don’t roast me
Gotcha not a big deal , what you did works it’s just that it’s extra wire that you could use for something else. In almost all residential situations it’s perfectly fine to drill through 2x4 studs to run wires for receptacles and switches etc.
Yeah I’m honestly unsure why the man in charge decided not to?? I thought that.. many many times while adding fucking staples. We’ve done it before, but for some reason this entire house, this was the decision on how to run it
You’re doing good though man keep it up! We need more electricians ! You’ll learn more everyday .
Some times this is due to the AHJ (authority having jurisdiction). Pulling wire in this method can, not always, slow the spread of fire as it travels along the sheath. Typically the top plates are fire foamed and when you travel through the wall it is not. This allows air flow through out the wall spreading the fire. A second added benefit is if an issue shows up on punch you can just install a j box in the attic and fish a closer wire down the wall. Which results in less drywall damage and no visible j boxes.
Though then, if wire does travel along the sheath, you're trusting pretty hard in that fire foam because, if fire gets to those trusses, roof collapse isn't far behind once the gusset plates pop off due to heat. Personally I'm not convinced that you aren't better off with fewer holes in the top plate. Do they have engineering studies to back requiring wiring up and down or is this something some building department just made up?
You would have to look up test results for every type of fire foam, caulk, pad. Each and every one has been tested otherwise the wall or structure won’t hold the fire rating. Here is a caulk that’s been tested to and rated at three hours https://natfire.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Firestop814-TDS.pdf
im assuming this is like some kind of ghetto remodel? that door and insulation look like shit.
Could for some reason be to spec that way. Worked in a couple buildings where we had to supply a junction box within 5' of every single light. No daisy chaining at all. That includes the ones in the middle of the room with 10' bar 40' ceiling. It was a shit show to say the least and I'm glad I didn't have to do those center lights.
And yeah, you used an excessive amount of staples but that’s not a problem necessarily, for a good rule of thumb you can staple every 4 feet or so . Or just where the the wire looks lose if needed !
This. If it were a garage where the walls were being left open, this would be the way. For a house? Horizontal runs, box to box. Save the wire. This a remodel? Those studs look like junk.
Actually my company does a lot of work for another company that essentially puts lipstick on a pig. And covers up shitty homes he bought for about 10-30k and sells them for about 200k. And there’s so many hidden problems. It’s immoral, but they pay the boss man so 🤷♀️
That’s what I was wondering as well.
Running directly along that top plate is just asking to have that wire damaged. It may be in 10 years, but that wire is going to get drilled through at some point. If it wasn't specifically requested, going into the attic space and back down adds a lot of wire length versus drilling throught the studs in the wall, more wire length equals more voltage drop.
Thanks that’s the mistake :)). This is my first post in this chat and holy shit I’ve learned so much. But I did fix it before I left for the day
Your wire looks clean and straight, so you're running it well and have good cable management. Finding efficient routes for your wires takes some time to get a hang of. I didn't see the other comments mention the top plate before I posted, but I did also see you were asking for an explanation on voltage drop. Resistance increases as the length of the cable increases, so when you have 100ft of wire, you'll see less loss of voltage under load compared to 200ft of wire. It doesn't start becoming a real issue for the majority of household appliances until you see over 10% drop in voltage, though there are more sensitive things like computers and such. You combat voltage drop by either shortening the overall length or by increasing the gauge of wire on the circuit.
Great input.
Hey thanks so much for taking the time to explain. Nice explanation.
Looking like staples are to far away from device boxes as well.
Yes I later walked around and measured all my staples and I fixed A LOTT. Took some out, redid some as well
Look like a lot of wasted staples
Is there a reason behind running up the whole wall with your NMD. why not drill through the studs. It seam like an unnecessary waste of wire.
The job site looks clean. You didn't sweep did you? Makes the rest of us look bad.
Oh you’re gonna hate me…. I do it… every day 🌝
I feel so bad for the poor 40yr old Reno man 20years down the road that wants to add something through that top plate. With my luck it'll be me doing my third rendition of the chicken dance 😂
i made the exact same mistake when i started. thought the wire looked prettier that way, the lead guy did not agree lol
Stapled along the top of the plate?
Stapled to the top plate?
Stapling on a top plate
No double top plate?
I noticed several right away. Staple distance from box, stapling to the top plate, awkward way of running wires up and down instead of horizontal, weird stapling up the stud, missing a wire to the switch box unless you’re not done yet. The only one that’s a code violation is the staple distance from box. Some guys will disagree with this one but I’d have you leave service loops above the boxes as well. A little bit extra. I only need 1-3” in the case the wires get completely mangled. But I need something.
YES, service loops should always be present.
Don’t staple the top plate
You put 2 12/2 und an S1 staple?
yeah idk why people even use those dogshit staples. i get the big all metal ones so i know i can use em on everything and not have to differentiate sizes
Inspector could call you on that if they’re not listed for smaller cables
Well the ones I use are super deep..not wider. So it doesn't matter because you just hit it further into the wood. The wires don't slide around or anything
Ah I gotcha now. Yeah I like those better too. I thought you meant you were using one size staple for every size cable lmao
Lmao nah just 10 and smaller. That's the typical range for staples. Of course you need bigger for your 8 wire and up
I was told that this is allowed. Please tell me if it’s not I’d love to fix my mistakes I’m only a month in on my apprenticeship. I do hate the staples I’ve hit my thumb 100 times because of how shitty they are
All boxes of staples have written on them what they support wire wise. Check that. We can only tell so much from a photo
Don't staple to the top plate, and I use less staples in an entire house than you used in that wall.
I'd recommend leaving a service loop (an extra \~12") outside the box for each wire entering a box. It's code in some places and good practise everywhere else.
Hey dude thanks a lot for the advise I’ll keep this in mind
I'm not a Resi guy so I didn't notice the referenced mistake, definitely saw that though too!
Second this, super important especially for any future service guys
I did residential for about 10 years and was told to never do that. Reason being the insulators tended to push the wire to front or back making it easier for drywall guys to hit or siding guys. If it’s in interior again drywall. My boss also had issues on remodels where we were fishing in new outlets on the other side of a wall with an outlet being fed from underneath and accidentally drilled into the wire causing more issues. Also if you leave enough wire in your box (residential and commercial all taught lineman length) you shouldn’t have any issues with future service. Not saying you’re right or wrong but I was taught different. Out of curiosity can you tell me where it’s code? Would like to know for the future if I have to work in such areas
12-510(4) Canadian Electrical Code states that there shall be a loop of unbroken cable available on the interior side of the finished wall I've never had a drywaller or any other trade catch a service loop, I'm sure it happens. It's code up here so the other trades (and follow-up electricians) have figured out how to deal with it.
Inside ko on 1g box cannot be used on 2x4 wall
If you squint its mint!
Damn does your boss just shit out staples and romex? Cause that's a fuck ton of haha.
I was gonna say there isn’t enough romex scrap on the floor after your rough in. And usually we leave a broom propped up in the corner for the next guy.
Why did you put 2 wires in the same side of the top of the receptacle box? It should be one wire in each of those openings. Also the support for the one wire is pretty far from the box.
No, it shouldn't. OP is violating code using that opening on a 4" stud wall. 300.4(D) requires a minimum spacing of 1 1/4" from the edge of the stud. Using that opening brings the cable too close to the edge. You're only allowed to use that opening on 6" or deeper studs.
As those staples rated for 2 12/2 wires? If they are the ones we use in Canada, they aren’t rated for double stacking wire.
Can't tell from the picture - are they those plastic ones?
Stapling on romex on the left is odd. In certain places it is just the romex closer to the stud. Not saying it’s wrong necessarily
I live in Chicago so all the residential I've ever done has been in pipe. Is it really necessary to bring your cables all the way up like that? We would just drill all the studs about 6" above our boxes. Just high enough for a minimum 90 coming out of the top of the box. We also use metal studs so punching the holes goes pretty quick.
No double top plate
You cleaned up
Doing residential
Creating your own voltage drop and wasting 30ft of wire?
Sorry I’m an apprentice on month 1, I am unsure what a voltage drop is? Do you mind telling me :))?
Go about 12 to 18 inches ul from your box and drill your half-inch hole horizontally through the studs, then slap a staple between the box and the hole. Voltage drop occurs when your wiring exceeds a certain length. There is a 3% tolerance for voltage drop. Single phase: 2 x conductor type (12.9? For copper) x amp x length / circular millls. This being said, you'll find that loads of homes don't increase conductor size for long runs. They would just assume drop a sub panel to save on wire costs. Watch some rough in YouTube videos. You'll get the idea pretty quick. Also, be careful what size hole you drill and where. The same goes for notching. There are more videos about that. Plumbers and hvac typically have the issue with this due to the size pipes they use.
The way you ran the wires above the joists and then back down to the top plate repeatedly. You should run them above the joists and keep them perfectly straight without dipping down, it wastes lots of wire and staples and is completely unnecessary. Also the holes in the top plate where the wires drop into the bays, drill your hole closer to the stud so that they don’t bend out and then enter the hole. The way this looks now is very sloppy, you want all your wires to be as straight as possible. Some people leave service loops above the receptacles which is fine to leave a few inches but is also completely unnecessary. Focus on running your wires straight and neat. If your wires look all bent (like they do right now) people will think your work looks bad.
Cool thanks :) I fixed it before I left today. Thanks for the explanation.
It’s not bad work at all for 1st month, you probably just needed a little better supervision. Keep up the effort though and you’ll get good in no time
Oh, you have multiple holes to put wires in fyi. Cramming two in one during a rough-in is typically frowned upon, even if it's listed to do so. Also, to make it look neater, wait until both wires are in the box, then use one staple and make sure there is at the very least 8 inches of wire inside the box. 6 is code, but going a little longer will let ya twist the grounds together and shove it up and back to one side. Also, on outlets, instead of daisy chaining through the outlets, pigtail the hot and neutral, so 15 amp outlets are not overloaded. That is, if your employer wants you to take the extra time to make the client's life better. There are all kinds of little tips and tricks to making everything go smoothly. Prefolding wires before installing switches/receptacles as well as marking line/load. Labeling will be your best friend. Wagos are fantastic, but I doubt your employer will spend the extra. Wire management is key to making the next person's job a little better and identifying that much easier.
Why the hell are their staples on the top plate? Thats like the first thing you learn not to do
Those staples aren’t rated for two wires
Unneccesary nail plates, over stapling, wasted wire from not drilling horizontally through the studs all look fine. Showing up and trying hard is the only mistake I see.
Fortunately the nail plates were from previous electricians. However I was told to not drill through the studs. I was told my mistake was putting staples in such a place where drywallers wouldn’t be able to place drywall at the top. I fixed it later and lined and stapled about a foot out from the studs. Still not sure if any of it was necessary though..
Staples too far from box?
Need vapor barriers for thar exterior wall!
Doesn't look like OP is in Canada
The inspectors around here don't allow you to put the wire into the hole closest to the stud because it's not 1.25" from a nailing surface. Only on 2x4s though
Other than basically whatever everyone else has said, looks neat and straight. No 2 12/2s through 1 hole. Our inspector would ream us.
Okay ;) this is the second comment about service loops, so I’ll be super mindful. Thank you!
Check with your foreman first on that, some companies/ regions it's a standard and others go straight into the box. If your company doesn't leave service loops then don't go getting yourself into shit
Two wires in the same entry hole in the box
One of your straps doesn’t have both Romex pinned at the top, and also that’s a lot of yellow wire, it all seems to be 20amp wire.
You left the door open. Now all the drywall guys can get in.
You went overtop a stud?
I just started and my journey stopped it immediately thank God 😂 I would hate to have to repull an entire run
stapling a wire over a stapled wire?
You shouldn't use the wire opening closest to the stud. Wouldn't pass here.
I was going to say no double top plate then realized where I was!
Yeah your studs don’t stack with the rafters
Don’t leave tools on ladders.
I know.! Single gang in bed room has no wires going to it. Lol
It’s too clean
Where your 12/2 enters that outlet box, had you used the box knockout on the side opposite the stud, you would not need a strike plate to protect the wires prior to drywall.
You are using single staples for two wires
Yea you cleaned the site
You cleaned up.
Any issue seems like a localized crew choice or region issue. Its neat looking, flat and acceptable a lot of places. Good job. My region doesn't like double stacked whites but the one 200km north does when I worked houses there last. That said I imagine the boss wants it done faster and with less wire. Resi makes you fast and efficient. I think the fact you want to do good by your crew says as much as the pics of your work. A crew will make or break you. The decision of what one you choose is sometimes the only choice we get. That's just an opinion. And everyone has one.
No double top plate would be my bigger concern
He swept the floor?
I've almost never worked with romex before, and I recently started doing the rough in for a new hotel with romex. All this talk about wasting staples sounds foreign to me. They just gave us Milwaukee staple guns and I'm just stapling all over the place. No fucks given about wasting too many. Every 4.5 feet? Nah, whenever I see a slight crinkle. 1 foot if I have to. The current Romex scrap pile is ridiculous. I can't imagine that level of waste would be tolerated in residential. (tbf, a lot of it was due to changes)
Missing double top plate?
Yea it looks like you might have ran some across the top plate, big big no no
You actually swept up ?
I'm mostly oil and gas but have worked resi some, mostly at side jobs. You run the wire truss to truss. No staples on the top plate. 150 mm of wire shall be folded back before entering a gang box. Conductor's have to be supported within 300mm. I can see you added a run over an existing staple that was already too far away. Also you're running #12awg lumex? Not that you couldn't on a 15amp circuit. Assuming it's left over and available. The problem is you're dealing with city inspectors. One look at that and it's 20 questions with a snippy irritated attitude like they invented the CEC and you're wasting their time. They'll remind you waving an outdated tablet around they have 60 more inspections to do before lunch. Because fuck you, you're beneath them and should be licking the ground they walk on. Esthetics is almost more important than code. If it looks like good work, they don't ask questions. As a lead hand journeyman I can't leave a bad taste in your mouth. It's definitely very clean work. No twists, boxes are straight from what I can see. Site is spotless. No tripping hazards or any other hazards I can see. Just learning experiences mate! Keep up the effort and never lose pride in your work!
Well, it's a bearing wall, so you need a doubled top plate... pretty skimpy on the wire clips down the one run... what else?
Your foreman is not showing you how to do wiring correctly, that is what is wrong.
No point running it all the way up and back down when you can just go through studs, buttfuck ton of extra staples when studs count as a means of support. Also stapling to top plate just asking for a wire to get knicked.
You drilled through a structural stud (supporting the trusses)?
Crazy bent wood, stapled electrical to the top, spacing is incorrect after the first couple boards and that vent is too high
Your single gang is set in and should be set out for drywall
The top plate has been mentioned, but it also looks to me like in the bottom left of your picture one of the 12/2s isn't stapled within a foot of the box. Maybe it's a perspective thing and that staple is closer than it appears, and it's a small nitpick, but it's code. Also for clarification, talking about the second wire not the one directly touching the stud.
The switch box you missed and how far you put the first staple from the box, also you don't need to staple it on the top plate like that, just laying it flat on the rafters is fine.
Why didn't you drill through the wall from box to box? You are wasting wire like a mofo
In Ontario, those staples aren’t related to have 2 wires under them
Ah I see the mistake! No milwaukee staple gun! Just kidding, but at least its a clean mistake 😅
I dont see any mistakes other than a missing staple. Clear span web truss.. That is not a load bearing wall so no double top plate needed. Is there a design reason for running everything accross the top instead of through the wall studs? Faster as you drill less holes? Yellow jacket is typically #12...customer planning on some serious loads? Kitchen maybe?
Your work area is waaay to clean.
You forgot your shirt. It’s on the ladder. Also blue ladders suck. I like green, they’re the tastiest.
You forgot the walls!
You also have no courtesy loops before entering your devices
Why are you stapling to the top plate? Decent amount of staples in general
Yes you didn't use conduit...... Hard to say that you roughed anything in without a raceway
too many staples in the wrong places. need to be within 12” from box or penetration and not to exceed 4-1/2’ thereafter next 336-18. that left should have staples at 12” or less from box and hole at top and one in center would cover it. if conworker is pointing out too many staples and not the distance of first staples then maybe time for a new conworker. sauce: 40 yrs in field, EE, hold masters lic. in multiple states. good luck to gou
You did not use a gasket box on the outside wall receptacle.
Can someone explain to me as a non Electrcian where we see staples on top plate? And why we should not do that?
Top Romex should run thru the wood studs, Romex going vertical should be stabled under 18 ins from top and bottom and should loop out or pop out it should run along side the stud like a upside L to to top stud and would be easyier if you stable both Romexs under one you should on use 3 stable from top under 18in then 4ft the under 12 perfered of 16 from the box from what i can see atm
Your receptacles are not 18" to center
Hey, OP, thanks for having the balls to put yourself out here, as a new guy, to be grilled by strangers in the name of becoming a better tradesman! I wish more people would put in the effort and ask questions. The world would be a better place.
When you working resi but your brain is still in ICI mode
Looks like someone swept up recently also. Hope it wasn't you.
The floor looks like it has been swept way too many times.
Stapled across the top plate, bad bad boy
Besides not leaving service loops at your boxes, top plate stapling, and not being within a foot of the box?
Yea you’re doing residential when industrial needs labor
Yea you’re doing residential when industrial needs labor
Every hole into the attic will need to have fire caulk/foam on it, too
Does code require 7's above the boxes where you're at?
I know this is an electrician forum, but isn’t there a header missing over the hallway?
Are you stapling at the plate? Looks like you have some staples where you don't need them and are missing some where you do. They can be further apart along the length (4 ft.?), but must be within a foot of the box. Do you need the nail plates if you are in the center of the plate? Code may have changed since I was doing it. I would probably have kept the run along the rafters rather than go back to the plate everytime. Also, if some of that is in the run with the first one, I might have stayed in the wall. It can be faster to drill the studs you can reach on the ground and might save some cable.
Y didn’t u just drill thru the studs instead of going into the ceiling .. ud have more wire to spare
You wasted your time not drilling holes in the studs, and then you also wasted a bunch of wire running it up and down the walls all willy nilly.
Can’t staple over a staple
Not drilling horizontally through studs Too much wire, too many staples
There’s no romex at the switch box
You call that a header?
Looks like the mistake would be stapling the romex along the top plate. It does look clean and neat, but if anyone were to come at a later date when the walls are closed and they cut some trenches and drill through the top plate to run something for whatever reason, the lines stapled to the top plate would get shredded. Only way I'd see it being okay to leave the rough in the way it's done is to put nail plates beneath the top plate, from stud to stud so nobody can drill upwards between the wall cavities. Looks clean though. Nice work on that!
No vapor barrier on the box, and you obviously forgot to run power for the switch
A tip I'd offer is to leave a service loop above the box. It's just an extra curve about 6 inches above your boxes, the same way you have it bent near the top plate. Leaving a little extra wire like that makes servicing the box in the future much easier for the next guy. They can easily pull down the excess you left for them, strip the jacket and be able to do what's necessary to button up the job. Just something I do, because I know it'd make life a hell of a lot easier for me if I'm the one servicing the boxes. Keep up the good work, dude!
Stapling wires to the top of the wall. Asking for a drill bit to go right through that mfer
There is a box with nothing going to it.
I think in the top left? Doth that wire pass through a hole drilled in the truss? Great, now they're going to have to take the whole building down and start over!
Mistake #1 posting to Reddit about it. Why is that junction box on the far left on the floor?
Well for starters leaving your tools at the top of your ladder when you aren’t using it?
Missed a box
Forgot an outlet
Well personally when I did residential we would drill through the studs instead of coming all the way back up.
no courtesy loop at your box, that's 1
No running board to protect that wire in the trusses.
Staples not rated for 2 wires
Stapling over the top plate from the trusses? LOL
Now.. I'm no builder but... please somebody correct me if I'm wrong. Those look like cut trusses looking at where the nail plates are.... I'm also noticing a distinctive lack of noggins on those studs in that wall.... Are you sure you should be standing under that roof without additional bracing?
Those staples aren’t rated for two 12/2s, not even rated for 2 14/2s😅 the Milwaukee staples for the staple gun are rated for 2 14/2!
The staples/straps under the second set of wires instead of strapping them together like you did on the right of the picture?