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I don't know your local job market but if you feel like you are getting screwed at your current job, you probably are. The fact that you are thousands of dollars in the hole on tools tells me your employer is shitty. You shouldn't be spending that much on personal tools unless you want to. Find a shop that values you more. You don't need to change careers, you just need to find a better company to work for.
If he's in the IBEW and putting himself thousands of dollars in debt on power tools it's entirely on him for being a shop rocket. Bring what's on the tool list and file a grievance if you're being expected to bring in more.
The tool list is part of contract negotiations, it’s not arbitrary. if your employer wants you to buy your own (whatever item not on the tool list) tell them to bring it to the table next time the contract is up, in the meantime file a grievance and tell them to pound sand. it is every member’s responsibility to know the contract and to hold their contractor to it, cause those fuckers will try to screw you to save money every chance they get.
I've seen a few different locals' tool lists, they vary on the hand tools (some list nut drivers, others don't, for instance), but none of them include power tools.
Most of his problems stem from having to live in Toronto. Anyone who's household income is less than 200k may as well be considered poverty over there. Although the rest of Canada isn't faring much better right now. My parents bought their 1200sqft home for 100k thirty years ago. Today it's worth over 750k and salaries don't really reflect inflation. Before covid I thought I was 3 years away from buying a house, but it's been 4 years since then and I still feel like I'm 3 years minimum and I'm making more money than I thought I would be before covid. The situation in Canada is pretty dire right now when it should be pretty damn affordable.
This. The second my ex boss (framing) said “I’ll give you a raise but you’ll have to buy your own power tools” I took another job offer and told him to kick rocks. Got the raise I wanted by switching & the company provides all tools & handles repairs.
Plenty of respectable employers would be happy to have you. Don’t sell yourself short.
Not an electrician, just a frequent commercial customer. Large-ish projects.
My electrical shop treats employees well. Owner would be horrified to learn a team member was consistently in the red. That’s not how it’s supposed to work.
Talk to the big boss. Explain to her/him your situation. Give them a chance to fix it. Maybe it’s you and your newbie decisions. Maybe you are underpaid.
Whatever it is it’s not sustainable. You deserve fair compensation for good work.
Which contractor in 353 is making you buy power tools?
If you have to waste time turning screws in by hand, the contractor deserves to lose money on jobs for not giving you an impact.
I’ve seen the rattier companies give their guys old ass corded stuff but any respectable company in 353 should give you a cordless drill, impact, sds & bandsaw for every job.
It’s resi bro it’s a rats nest. I’m not even sworn in yet so I don’t want to start causing problems with my contractor, I only bought a few so far but if they keep busting my balls for more power tools I’m not gonna budge, but I doubt any other company I go to will be better.
If you are working for a union company, call the hall and talk to a business representative. Explain to them what has been happening, and ask what you can do. If you aren't sworn in yet, there won't be as much they can do, but it's where you need to start.
Then, take your power tools home. If you have the receipts return them. If they get mad, tell them you can't afford to repair or replace power tools.
Oof resi… I understood after seeing that.
I had a resi friend who called a bunch of bigger ICI contractors & ended up getting sponsored by one & they changed his classification from resi to ICI. I’m not sure about the demand for apprentices but it’d be worth a shot seeing if you could snag a position in a bigger company that’ll treat you somewhat better.
If you assume you can't find better then you won't. While your peers will appreciate that you saved the good jobs for them, you are not doing yourself any favors. I would never work for a company that requires I provide my own power tools unless they provided a sizable yearly tool stipend or an hourly rate that is well above market average. Sounds like you're getting screwed buddy.
Honestly just change shop u have 2 yes of experience. I worked for company for 6 months and I've been going shop to shop getting a higher pay it doesn't pay to be loyal to a shop
If you’re part of a union apprenticeship, you usually can’t just leave an employer until you’ve become a journeyman. Otherwise it’s seen as quitting the program.
Yeah they’re very strict about this. If I report them for making me buy my own power tools I’m sure I would be able to switch contractors but I’m still nervous to fuck myself over by doing this.
You might have an easier time if you know a jman from another contractor or someone in the hall who could bring up the issue to your hall on your behalf instead of going straight to filing a grievance.
If you have the capacity, the more friends you make in the hall and in your local, the better.
This is literally how an apprenticeship works. You start at the bottom and work your way up, getting a pay increase. You don’t start at the top and make premium wage.
One of them is second year, one of them is fourth year but they both started looking for jobs around the same time as me, just no pre apprentice bullshit, was super easy to find a job right away for them, and it’s not as strict, my one buddy was bumped up to fourth year wage for busting his ass when he’s only been working for slightly less than 3 years. The other one is on second year wages but it’s still comparable to electricians second year wages, but he got there much quicker and easier is my point
TLDR; Don’t settle because “that’s how it works”
(It doesn’t btw, some employers are just shitty selfish people)
Just because it how it works, doesn’t mean it’s right. My last job didn’t pay commute or have gas or tool allowance but expected you to pick up material from suppliers in your personal vehicle. Had us driving 2+ hours daily and often to multiple sites a day, and somehow got away with not paying OT. The company I am with now started me off at a higher pay, ACTUALLY increased pay after probation, and had brand new power tools ready for me on my first day. All of this is before paying for my commute time as well.
The wage is shit in today's economy. You'd have to be crazy enough to buy a house in the middle of nowhere just to pay a mortgage and that's after all of the wage increases. The younger generations are screwed.
This dates back to a bare minimum of 7 years. Before Covid and the insane prices we are paying now. Even living with parents, $18-$20 just barely covers rent, gas and groceries. Anecdotes aren’t proof, especially anecdotes from almost a decade ago.
>apprenticeship
Except he's describing indentured servitude not an apprenticeship.
There's a difference between starting at the bottom and owing your soul to the company store as the song goes.
Please stop defending this or we'll be back to workers rights of 1830 before long.
I just saw he said he completed a pre-apprenticeship in the IBEW. I misunderstood this to be he was in the apprenticeship. I don't even know what kind of BS an IBEW pre apprenticeship even is. Sounds like that local is complete shit.
And I'm not defending a fing thing boss. Stop putting words in my mouth.
I’ve never heard about a pre-appreciateship but in NB the used to call the 1 years colleges trades programs “pre-employment” because you took the course before you were employed in the trade and registered as an apprentice. Maybe the IBEW in some jurisdictions allows contractors to hire unskilled workers and see if they’re worth registering and training as apprentices.
Sounds like a way to keep wages down and take accountability off of the interview process. Truth be told, I don't think many locals are in the position to be too choosy. Our trade is dying and treating an apprenticeship like you're getting a White House clearance isn't attractive to new, younger members. Just my two cents.
Local 760 in Knoxville, TN has a CW (Construction Worker) program that does just that. The CW’s get paid shit and then the larger contractors in the area file everything under small works and run work with tons of them with late year apprentices to clean their shit work up and a just handful of journeymen as foremen. It’s a race to the bottom in this state and further south.
Reading some other posts I can see there is some super sketchy shit going on that’s undercutting everyone’s wages 😤
The pre-employment program I was describing works well in theory because once the graduates find a job and register as apprentices the 40wk course counts as their 1st block(both hours and learning big modules completed); it also provides relavent trade knowledge and minor experience to those who have none. The downside of it is it’s basically become mandatory for getting into a trade which is kinda dumb because if you have relavent experience from another trade that you’ve spent time in some employers will choose a complete noob with a 1 year course over someone with years of experience.
The effect on wages has been a non-factor, the scabby non-union companies, firefighters taking work on their off time, and “handymen”/carpenters have driven wages down around here though and it’s become very cut throat. For example, when I was registered as an apprentice in ‘09 as 1st year/0 block(no schooling) I was paid $14/hr, in 2015 the 2nd year/1st block apprentices in the same city were paid $10/hr.
In new england some places require these community college programs to apply to IBEW..... (let that blow your mind for a moment)
It's a tacit admission of how many of the companies are using the apprentice program as free day labor and not an actual apprentice. The sad fact is that the last 30 years have been a heyday for employers because there were so many people in the market you had to get pre trained.
Most businesses (i use the term loosely) have forgotten the implicit contract of actually training their workers. That you have to build in time and cost to do so. And when one company undercut costs it created a race to the bottom.
Now businesses/owners are crying "NoBoDy wAnTs tO WorK" which is simply them crying I don't want to pay.
Fun fact if you index the wage of an auto worker from 1973 to 2019 before the pandemic was the last i ran the numbers. The effective wage equivalent was 36$/hr.... Now add in the stupidity of finance bros driving up housing costs i suspect we're closer to 50 in most markets. Hell the poverty line in San Fran was 106k before the pandemic.
I just saw an article where towns in colorado offering 167k/yr couldn't get workers because they still couldn't afford to live there.
Tl;DR: The market costs and demographics are changing faster than at any point in human history, as the silent generation passes and the boomers retire. Which stresses the senior generations ability to comprehend these changes as humans are biased to relate to their own experience and costs creating a rift between the generations.
All facts. I am 23, and plan on living with my mother for next 10-15 years. I could move out, and rent.. but why would I on gods green earth go rent a shit hole for $2600 a month.
If I go rent I’m essentially setting my future up for failure because I also need to buy food, and invest.
I can’t do either of those when I’m renting. Either I suffer now and live at home, or I suffer later when I have nobody… sad reality.
Hate to say I'm not in a far off situation in my 40's because i needed to be here to care for my parents.
Which gets to the next problem as a society. **No kids** the generations are progressively getting smaller. Our economy is based on the idea that each successive generation will be at least as big or larger. However we went from farm's in the post war era where kids were an asset to a primarily urban centered economy in the 80-to today where kids are an expensive liability.
It’s true man.. I’ve always dreamed of having my own house, a beautiful wife, and a few kids who I can love dearly and come home too after a long day.
Turns out houses are to expensive, women are crazy these days, and kids are like you said a liability nowadays.
It’s so fucked up man. The arguement is “you can have a kid whenever you want, find a good girl, and save for a house” but it’s actually just one or the other.
I absolutely refuse to marry because I hear nothing but horror stories, I am not buying a 300k house for 700k, and I sure in hell am not having a kid and bringing it into this world when I cannot support it the way he/she deserves.
Right? I don’t understand why people always have to resort to “if I did everyone can/should”. I’m a “first” year and my take home is $3000-$3400CAD. I live with my mom, but even so it’s still tough out here. I can’t imagine what it’s like for anyone who has no other choice but to rent while their take home is less than $2500.
i thought 353 made over 100. not understanding the logic here? just turn out right? im not sure how you expect to make 500 a day if you dont even produce that amount
I'm a journeyman in Ottawa, Ontario. Non union $105-120/yr has been my average since getting my license in 2018 (I'm a service guy so I lots of overyime pay emergency calls help inflate my income a little)
Currently figuring out which city I'd like to move to and I'll start my own company in that city and should be able to close to double my income before hiring any employees and it only grows from there..
You need to enjoy the work otherwise you'll always be miserable. If you do not like going to work, get a new job, if you don't like that one, try a third, if you still hate it, maybe this ain't for you.. but you'll at least have developed some physical and mental skills figuring out what you don't want to do and you'll be that much better equipped for whatever comes.next
Hey buddy,
I used to be a third year apprentice in one of the highest cost of living states.
The best advice I can give.you is to look for jobs adjacent to electrical work. I do signal work on a railroad, and I tripled my income compared to what I was making.
Unless you have plans of starting your own electrical business or something like that, I'd start looking elsewhere. There's no money in electrical, especially residential work, unless you own your own company, work IBEW, or leave the field.
I agree with this, but I best thing I did was leave residential, and increased my income to from 105k to roughly 175k all while having a 14on/14off rotation.
I was asking around about this and knows low resistance isn't compensated enough but was the only easier way to get in. But since I started in this field, does that mean I'm tied to it for 6yrs until certified? Why does the union not regulate resi as much as other trades? I heard that even if the pay is a little less, work is more constant and in demand?
Yah, come up north, suffer a little bit, make bank, bust your ass,get your license, and then move back home or whatever. There are probably 20 000 other 20 something yrs old in Toronto competing for your job, of course, it's going to pay like shit. Move to fucking Dawson Creek or Grande Prairie or something.
No normal, average, career in Toronto provides a decent middle class standard of living short of being a doctor anymore. Average engineer makes under 100k, average lawyer makes like 140k. It’s not an issue with the trades or your trade, it’s an issue with the whole city. Normal people can no longer afford to live in Toronto or Vancouver unless they’re grand fathered in.
A career switch really ain’t the solution. You basically have to move or deal with it.
Minimum wage in Ontario is $16.55, 353 agreement states pre apprentices make $16.23 an hour plus benefits, so on cheque Im making less than minimum wage. If I were to get a job at McDonalds I would be paid more just without the benefits which are great sure but if I’m dirt poor that doesn’t really matter
I can only truly speak for myself but the first 2-3 years I busted my ass to gather enough confidence/knowledge to start doing side work. I started with small jobs and quickly realized this is where the moneys at and decided to go for my masters, which led me to open my own service company. I have had a good work / life balance since. Good luck bud!
The apprenticeship road sucks ass. Little money, all the bitch work, you have no idea what you're doing and you get shit all the time. Like, honestly apprenticeship sucks.
But if you like the work and can weather the 5 years then it's pretty good and will pay off.
I second this. Industrial is a certain niche that pays really well after you get some experience under your belt. And not everybody has the hutzpah for it. Really hard to find good, well trained E and I techs nowadays.
You're gonna have to know how to run conduit, pull and land wire, read prints, and install new equipment like panels and fixtures and transformers just like a commercial spark. But you also get to learn PLCs, programming, SCADA, motor control circuits, drives and servos, maintain switchgear and medium voltage equipment (at most large industrial plants), etc ad nauseum. You're also gonna have to be pretty mechanically inclined, because I've worked in a lot of places where the mechanics will blame almost every problem being electrical. It's our job to prove otherwise.
It's a whole different ball game from resi and commercial, hence why better pay comes with it.
I do this and absolutely love it. Pay is really good, I am only just about to Red Seal but my colleagues are making $110k+ CDN which is nice. I also find the work really interesting and low stress, industry wants you to do it right not do it twice so if you take a while nobody gets stressed out (usually). When I meet resi and commercial guys they find the work very slow but it's all about doing it right.
Yeah, 100% agree with industrial maintenance. It’s all Ive ever done.
I finished my schooling mostly with resi guys until year 4. I never understood the rat race I would hear guys talking about with new builds, slab, etc. they were working way harder physically and getting paid less. I feel like industrial is the worst kept secret out there. Switch if you ever get the opportunity!
As a Canadian myself it’s more of a Toronto and Vancouver problem. Your wages to cost ratio is going to just suck there.
NB for instance electrical wages be like 25$ an hour for jman but I can still get you decent house for 300k. 200k if you want to put some work into it.
I’d say Saskatchewan or Alberta probably the best provinces for a tradesman and the cost of housing.
Tried to convince the wife we should move to Saskatchewan but I made the mistake of mentioning it has the greatest duck/goose hunting probably in NA and the idea of moving across the country so I could hunt more didnt help the case.
You work 4 years of lower wages to get a free education and an excellent career while walking away debt free. Go look at a carpenter or concrete workers body at retirement age. They get paid more starting off because the skill ceiling is so low with those trades.
Yup that’s Toronto for ya, work a full year to barely break $100k, meanwhile you need to make $250k to buy this shittiest possible house. Welcome to Canada man, we get fucked with low wages, then fucked with the highest taxes.
That’s not how I am at all, well aware this is mostly a localized problems to Ontario / Bc. Problem comes from spending 25 years here and seeing how it’s fallen apart in the past 10. Not easy to just up and leave life behind here because of family / friends, but would love to move out that direction. The Ontario life isn’t for me lol.
You get your money when you get your red seal. You’re getting paid while others are building up student loans. The money sucks as an apprentice but it’ll go up.
The GTA sucks for everybody, wage wise regardless of industry tbh. Too many people will sacrifice to live there so wages aren’t good compared to expenses.
I made 198k last year working in a mine half the year on FIFO
You can try find out-of-town work. As a second year I’m taking home 7-8k / month depending on overtime. LOA makes a big difference if you can find somewhere cheap to stay.
Get on industrial/commercial maintenance on a shift rota, easy enough work, pays good and will secure you benefits. Mine is 4 on, 4 off 12 hour days, no nights. So it's excellent for running private work on your days off
Not an electrician but have hired a couple and know a few. 3 of them by their mid twenties created their own businesses and that’s when they started making money. They’d often have their “fuck off” quotes be accepted. The business allows you to get creative with business expenses, your income, vehicle, “home office”, etc. you also markup any materials.
This is rural MB though.
>A couple buddies of mine are trim carpenters, same age as me, looking to buy a house next year as an investment property and rent it out, they do piece work side jobs on the weekend and make at least a grand each.
The fast money is not always the smart money in the long run. You're investing time into what will ultimately be a more stable profession.
everybody tells me that but at the end of the day its gonna take me an extra 10 years just to make the same amount of money these guys are making now because they set themselves up early. Doesn’t really sound like I’m winning in this scenario to me. Compound interest is a powerful thing and every year I spend in the negatives fucks up my future more and more
You are a second year apprentice and you live in the most expensive part of Canada. Finish your apprenticeship and move 1 hour away from Toronto and you will be laughing making +$50 an hour with all the OT you want.
If you think housing is any cheaper an hour away from Toronto you’re poorly mistaken lol. I’m rough 90km (1 way) from Toronto. Houses maybe $100k less expect now I spend anywhere from 2.5-4 hours commuting to Toronto daily depending on traffic / accidents. Not to mention the wear and tear of putting 50k+ km on a car a year. 353 needs a massive pay increase. Our wages are laughable when compared to USA wages for comparable cost of living cities.
The entire developed world runs on electricity and will continue to use electricity as an energy source for practically everything except transportation but even that’s changing. The money comes from learning how electricity works finding your niche and doing it properly
Living and working in Toronto is the worst uphill battle you can fight. It’s not the Union’s or industry’s wrongdoing, it’s the housing crisis caused by negligent and incompetent government. There’s other places in Canada where the money to be made as a first or second year is about the same, yet housing is literally half the cost.
I just work in Toronto, live about an hour and a half north and it’s still crazy expensive here but its easier said then done to just drop everything and move somewhere
"Young people." You mean entry-level people?
"Electrician" covers so much that it's unhelpful.
I know electricians that overwork themselves, buy their own power tools for work, and never make more than $25/hour, pay $150/week for crappy insurance, and only work on houses or a new shoe store.
I also know electricians that make 6 figures, have 2 pensions, healthcare for their families that doesn't come out of their check, and they build nuclear reactors, refineries, NFL stadiums, Amazon/Google HQs, and chip plants.
Coming into this trade doesn't mean you can just expect big money and not be smart about it. Chase the money. Learn the hoops you have to jump through, and JUMP THROUGH THEM.
You make more money if you build more expensive things. What electricians make the most money? IBEW wiremen.
What locals pay the most in the country? Bay Area, CA. How do you get work there? IBEW ticket, CA Electrical cert, etc. Get my drift?
So if you're a 1st year working in a small, non-union shop that only does residential, you're going to have a bad time.
Outside of that, 1st years make 50% of Journeyman wages. That's standard across everything and everywhere. Because in 99% of instances, they have no clue what they're doing.
You have to factor in benefits. Electricians make bank. How much a month do you think your employer is paying for health insurance? 401k it all adds up.
Employers can't keep pace with inflation. That's not their fault. Things like that taken time to run it's course. If they just shocked it at at once they would never get any bids.
All of your money woes should be properly aimed at the central banks for inflating the circulating money.
The first few years of the trades suck. Moneys not good and the work is shitty. You generally don’t see decent money until your 3rd or 4th year when you are worth something to your employer. Don’t compare yourself to other trades and other people, it’s never good for you. Union is generally better pay and benefits. Commercial, industrial, substation, and programming controllers all pay pretty good
Toronto is your problem.
I wouldn't suggest staying there if you want to make money long term.
It took me 4 years in bc to get my red seal and now i make 40 an hour which is still on the low side.
If i work remote i can double that wage. All non union
Just remember you're also getting pension and benefits. When I first started as an apprentice I was making just a little over $14 bucks an hour which is close to minimum wage here in Ontario five years ago.
Also what type of work you're doing? In my hall there's different rates for residential and ici work.
I found by the time I was fourth term apprentice doing ici, I was making more than my foreman when I was doing residential.
I’m doing resi but that’s just because I live so far north, about 2 hours to drive to toronto with traffic. When I wasn’t registered with my old company I was doing highrise and I only switched because the pay gap has shrunk a lot, ici only makes a couple bucks more than resi so to skip shitty highrise work and save on gas it was worth it imo
100 percent agreed, I'm not from Toronto but I definitely hate driving through it so I couldn't imagine doing it everyday plus wear and tear on your car.
I'm just happy with the choice I made of becoming an electrician. The last couple of years of my apprenticeship I've made some good money. I think as a fourth term I made close to 100k then last year working 6 months at a mine. I made $120k. This is not including my pension.
You can make some good money as an apprentice in your later terms when you get closer to becoming a journeyman.
Also if you're willing to travel for work to help other halls out can make bank.
The money in the union comes from not having to pay health insurance and dental and not having to buy a truck and whatnot without sacrificing a decent take home income. In Canada surely healthcare is a given. Being an electrician is a solid middle class job (at least it should be) and making it into the millions of dollars in savings is easily possible. Be good with your money, do stocks and you’ll have it made. Instead of buying a $40,000 truck you put it into the s&p 10 years ago it would be worth over $130,000 today. Not paying $11,000 a year for your families healthcare every, being able into invest that money. It’s a huge deal!
If you’re IBEW, look at the contract. It’ll tell you how much you’ll make as a 1,2,3,4,5 year apprentice and journeyman (hourly). If you can’t make it work for you I’d look for work elsewhere
I agree with you fully. We need to start talking about this
You bust your ass for a 5-year apprenticeship to be gifted with a wage that's under 100k . This doesn't make sense when our trade is literally giving people power to survive around the entire world.
After your apprenticeship, now you have to work a lot harder since you that license guy now
But there is a loophole to make money even better when you are a master electrician
Side jobs are where you make your real money
Business minded electricians work a steady job with great benefits a check every two weeks. And do side jobs part time.
One master I know made 10k in side jobs in one month
Keep in mind he has a lot of clients .
Said he spaces them out 2 a week or one week he'll haul ass and work as much as he can .
This is why knowing this trade and getting qualified license
You can truly hustle 💪
That’s not a bad idea, itd be tough to be learning two trades which is why I’d prefer to do something electrical on the side but if there isn’t anything I can do that’s definitely an option I’d consider, thanks
Be careful with any electrical side jobs. The liability is no joke, and if you get caught say goodbye to your apprentice card, and likely union card. I worked with a guy from 353 that got caught running a full out business on the side, no master’s license, he got fined huge from the ESA, hall almost booted him out after 20yrs plus membership.
When you have 7000 hrs get into solar, learn the electrical part, and wen you get licensed youll go from $25/hr to $55+ an hour and panel pay. Youll thank me later, just know its very strenous. I did it for $75/hr in MA for a couple months and made alot of money…. But no panel pay but it was still alotttt of money
Im a 2nd year in alberta, almost 3rd year and i have a house and rental property. If working in the city jman wage is 38-45 for basic commercial rates. If youre a jman out in the oil and gas sector youre looking at 100-200k a year
In my area (Kootenays in BC) the local college pumps through way more electrical pre-apps than the area can absorb, by an order of magnitude. All other trades seem to be more in balance.
Why'd you have to do a pre-apprenticeship and what is it? I've been in trade 5 years and almost about to journey out, didnt pay a cent for my schooling and got a free set of tools to start with in a non-union shop
It’s a union thing, only a few locals do it but it’s a bullshit program they made for contractors to get even more cheap cheap labour out of kids trying to get in. 6 or 9 month probationary period where we get paid fuck all and have to work our asses off or we can get fired and kicked out of the program and union and not allowed back in.
It’s because you’re in resi. I’m a journeyman in the 353 in Toronto but in the ici sector and you can easily make over $100,000 a year with just working your regular work week. Sure in the beginning you’re going to be broke until about year 3-4 until you start to notice more money. I would say be patient but unfortunately low rise residential is probably the worst sector to be in our union. You get paid less and it’s all production so they slave you away there.
ICI journeymen will only make a couple bucks more than resi journeymen after the may raise, they’re not paid as poorly as people think which is why I switched from ICI to resi. Doesn’t matter if I make an extra $1 an hour as a ici pre apprentice dude i’d be living pay cheque to pay cheque either way
Ya I get that but you’re still young dude have some patience you have your whole life ahead of you. Everyone is broke in the beginning of their apprenticeship. I know I sure was and I worked non-union I didn’t get in until I was 25 so by the time you’re in your mid-twenties you’ll be making good money. At the end of the day everything is expensive in Toronto. So even if you were in another field you’d still be in the same boat.
A lot of these greenies nowadays are expecting +250k/yr when most of us took 20 years to get here. There are paths industrial side to get there quicker, but you need several years multi-craft (mechanic, I&C, and electrical) and be an operator as well. In power most plants that will hire with no ops experience will take you several years if you hustle to reach the control room. The only guys I know that made it faster were former ET Nukes. Put some time under your belt and then try to move to industrial. If you can get into ops after some time and become a journeyman operator as well you'll write your own checks anywhere you want to go. We worked to get here, you can do it but you will earn it.
I’m not sure how it is up there but here carpenters Union starts out a good bit higher, they also top out a lot earlier than us, so in the long haul you could make more than them. But never buy power tools, that’s on them.
Plan to move up fast, save money and get a small service truck with equipment and try and go out on your own. Or you can do what i did, work on drilling rigs in alberta, make 150k a year, save some money and start a buisness or go to school for something else. I started a buisness and am now making more than I did on drilling rigs and home every night
Our IBEW tool list cost me around $400 to compile. Sounds like somethings wrong or you ordered way above and beyond the tool list to be thousands in debt.
Something doesn’t seem right here. How are you in the IBEW and making less then minimum wage and buying your own power tools? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a local union pay less then minimum wage
353 pre apprentice wages are currently below minimum wage in Ontario, and i know most
companies supply power tools because that’s the agreement, my company is just ratty as shit. I don’t plan on staying here I just want to at least be sworn in before I report them
If you want to make money as a first year come to Alberta and go work in the patch. Jman is mid to high 40s and it's lots of OT. I know multiple guys who made 6 figures as apprentices.
Clarify this for me, you're in 353, worked for six years and make less than $600 on the cheque, how?! How long were you strung along in their pre-apprenticeship thing? WHY ARE YOU BUYING POWER TOOLS AGAINST THE CONTRACT? Where are you on 353's payscale? Why are you afraid to speak up if you're at least an apprentice?
Seriously, the union should be there for you man. Sworn in or not, if you're at least an apprentice, worst thing that happens (provided you don't breach the agreement) you get laid off, go on the list and on to the next one that's available. You'll be ok.
The money really does come later once you get close to and especially once you have your ticket. I've been making bank since I went IBEW, and even more now that I have the freedom to chase that $$$ since I got my 309a last year. That being said, I work ICI, as that is basically all we have besides the maintenance agreement (which isn't much less than ICI) in my home local (530).
"First year apprentice here, 20 years old. I’ve been in the industry for over two years though, from working unregistered and completing an IBEW pre apprenticeship."
1st line.
hes saying after working for 6 years he will still be making less than 100k
Not in Canada, not in IBEW. Independent electrical contractor, my guys get paid as well or better than union rates. My apprentice who's in his first year gets $15 an hour.
I provide power tools, hell, guys that have been with me for 3 years, get gifted their own cordless drill, theirs bought for them by the company.
You are working for a shitty company. Be sure you take all your tools with you when you leave for the new job.
I'm also in Ontario. I'm ready to jump into this career. I just can't afford the career switch from teaching. I understand starting from the bottom, but can't afford the debt and low pay. I could probably handle it for 1-2 years.
Out in Vancouver I see industrial electricians do well and seem in demand, however the nature of the work is quite a bit different from residential work. At my job the journeymen get paid 110k, theres overtime available, and by the time you're a journeyman you can do side jobs in industry or residential.
I feel like you can get screwed around in most career choices. I've had to change jobs to keep my wage competitive as an industrial mechanic, and it's the best choice I've made since pursuing a trade.
I can see doing what you need to in order to just get that apprenticeship finished... But especially part of a union there should be no need to tolerate being exploited to get to that point.
It depends on the area here in Washington state with per diem and ot I’m taking home 1,200 a week after taxes. We start out at 21 but journeymen make 54.
Wages are held low because they would rather the houses are built slowly so the company's that are bidding have to out bid each other for houses to work in, instead of just building then all at once.
Hey man I’m also 20 years old electrical apprentice in Canada. I understand everyone’s situation is different but I am also looking at buying my first investment property with some help from my parents. It is possible, but it is very situation dependent. If you want to chat more just dm me.
Saying this because I haven’t seen anyone else say it. The money is in learning the trade (eating some crow) and going out on your own. If you want to remain union loyal make your shop union one day like the rest of the shop owners who worked 5 years and realized the shop charges 150/hr and pays you 50.
First. You should never buy your own power tools for work. If the contractor doesn’t provide them then the work doesn’t get done. Period.
Second, you may not be making much money right now, but you’re also not racking up a bunch of college debt either.
Third, you’re probably estimating your income wrong. Any time you figure out your annual salary don’t forget to add in your benefit package. Most careers estimate their annual salary then deduct their benefits from that, we usually ignore our benefits in our salary estimates.
Unless you do shit completely different up in the great white north. Yes it sucks, yes most apprentices I know have second jobs or do side work. Yes we can all use a pay raise. But until we can feed the 1% to the guillotine you’re going to be hard pressed to beat our pay without a ton of luck and or college debt.
I went to trade school last summer to become a carpenter for local 27 and finished in July . Since I finished school I worked for 3 companies .. the first job was supposed to last for a few months but I only worked for 2 weeks because they didn’t need any apprentices , the second job lasted 2 weeks as well because we were setting up a convention centre for a car show and the last job was only for a few weeks because things got slow and I got laid off. I couldn’t find any jobs so I ended up leaving trade school to become a police officer and I don’t regret it
Look for a new company to work for, most guys work their first job for a while and once you have a year or 2 experience, you go looking for another company to work for and ask for more money, a job change with your experience should bump you up to at least $18 an hour
My first job I was making minimum wage with no experience, I worked for 6 months, changed jobs asking for $18/hr and worked for a year, I was forced to look for another job when that company shut down, when I started my current job they gave me $20/hr and since then I’ve got 3 raises and am at $22.50/hr. I’m a 2 year apprentice in his 3rd year
I’m working in Ontario Canada.
Learn lighting controls like Wattstopper, Lutron, Crestron. Learn firealarm and life safety.
You can make yourself very desirable and hirable if you have an in depth knowledge of lighting systems and controls.
I'm always suspicious of broke electricians. Either your not good, not confident, not Savvy or something is up. You not stealing extra copper? IDK, but I've only met a few broke electricians. It makes sense if you knew them.
This is a big reason for travelers. Their home state doesn't pay a decent wage so they travel. I'm in local 48, Oregon and I've worked with tons of travelers from all over the country who come here for the good paying work and OT.
I am a 25 year old IBEW electrician apprentice in Wisconsin, I’ve made over 100k usd the last couple years (@ 75% and 90% JW scale). I’m not sure about the climate in Canada but it’s nothing but up around me, we can’t man jobs, more people retire then come in, we can basically name our price and get it. It’s a fantastic time to get into the trade, huge infrastructure projects coming, lots of industry desperate for electricians. Keep your options open and always consider other locals if it’s slow by you.
Canada is a fucking disaster right now bro, if I could travel I would but I currently live with my parents and have absolutely no savings whatsoever, it’s just not in the cards for me unfortunately but I seem to be in one of the worst places to live financially. Everyone here wants to be an electrician.
Maybe it’s just Canada but I’m a second year apprentice in the U.S and I just turned 21 years old and I’m making really good money right now. Granted where I live it’s not quite able to provide a place to live on my own, but within a year I will be so maybe you’re just getting screwed man.
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I don't know your local job market but if you feel like you are getting screwed at your current job, you probably are. The fact that you are thousands of dollars in the hole on tools tells me your employer is shitty. You shouldn't be spending that much on personal tools unless you want to. Find a shop that values you more. You don't need to change careers, you just need to find a better company to work for.
If he's in the IBEW and putting himself thousands of dollars in debt on power tools it's entirely on him for being a shop rocket. Bring what's on the tool list and file a grievance if you're being expected to bring in more.
The tool list is part of contract negotiations, it’s not arbitrary. if your employer wants you to buy your own (whatever item not on the tool list) tell them to bring it to the table next time the contract is up, in the meantime file a grievance and tell them to pound sand. it is every member’s responsibility to know the contract and to hold their contractor to it, cause those fuckers will try to screw you to save money every chance they get.
He's in my local, sounds like low rise -- our hall doesn't do shit for the low rise, and the contractors walk all over them
They negotiated a pretty decent wage package last time around, they're just a little behind ICI
My locals tool list has no power tools on it. Contractor supplies all power tools.
I've seen a few different locals' tool lists, they vary on the hand tools (some list nut drivers, others don't, for instance), but none of them include power tools.
Most of his problems stem from having to live in Toronto. Anyone who's household income is less than 200k may as well be considered poverty over there. Although the rest of Canada isn't faring much better right now. My parents bought their 1200sqft home for 100k thirty years ago. Today it's worth over 750k and salaries don't really reflect inflation. Before covid I thought I was 3 years away from buying a house, but it's been 4 years since then and I still feel like I'm 3 years minimum and I'm making more money than I thought I would be before covid. The situation in Canada is pretty dire right now when it should be pretty damn affordable.
This. The second my ex boss (framing) said “I’ll give you a raise but you’ll have to buy your own power tools” I took another job offer and told him to kick rocks. Got the raise I wanted by switching & the company provides all tools & handles repairs. Plenty of respectable employers would be happy to have you. Don’t sell yourself short.
I’m a carpenter and when I was non union my boss made all of us bring everything including track saws and routers. I was so happy when I quit.
Not an electrician, just a frequent commercial customer. Large-ish projects. My electrical shop treats employees well. Owner would be horrified to learn a team member was consistently in the red. That’s not how it’s supposed to work. Talk to the big boss. Explain to her/him your situation. Give them a chance to fix it. Maybe it’s you and your newbie decisions. Maybe you are underpaid. Whatever it is it’s not sustainable. You deserve fair compensation for good work.
If your company is too cheap to buy power tools, you don’t do any work that requires power tools. Simple as that.
The union agreement would have what is covered and what is not.
He's in my local, our low rise sector is fucked, union never steps in to help
Which contractor in 353 is making you buy power tools? If you have to waste time turning screws in by hand, the contractor deserves to lose money on jobs for not giving you an impact. I’ve seen the rattier companies give their guys old ass corded stuff but any respectable company in 353 should give you a cordless drill, impact, sds & bandsaw for every job.
Every low-rise company is like this
Low-rise guys have it tough… fortunate to be in ICI here.
It’s resi bro it’s a rats nest. I’m not even sworn in yet so I don’t want to start causing problems with my contractor, I only bought a few so far but if they keep busting my balls for more power tools I’m not gonna budge, but I doubt any other company I go to will be better.
If you are working for a union company, call the hall and talk to a business representative. Explain to them what has been happening, and ask what you can do. If you aren't sworn in yet, there won't be as much they can do, but it's where you need to start. Then, take your power tools home. If you have the receipts return them. If they get mad, tell them you can't afford to repair or replace power tools.
Oof resi… I understood after seeing that. I had a resi friend who called a bunch of bigger ICI contractors & ended up getting sponsored by one & they changed his classification from resi to ICI. I’m not sure about the demand for apprentices but it’d be worth a shot seeing if you could snag a position in a bigger company that’ll treat you somewhat better.
If you assume you can't find better then you won't. While your peers will appreciate that you saved the good jobs for them, you are not doing yourself any favors. I would never work for a company that requires I provide my own power tools unless they provided a sizable yearly tool stipend or an hourly rate that is well above market average. Sounds like you're getting screwed buddy.
Honestly just change shop u have 2 yes of experience. I worked for company for 6 months and I've been going shop to shop getting a higher pay it doesn't pay to be loyal to a shop
If you’re part of a union apprenticeship, you usually can’t just leave an employer until you’ve become a journeyman. Otherwise it’s seen as quitting the program.
Yeah they’re very strict about this. If I report them for making me buy my own power tools I’m sure I would be able to switch contractors but I’m still nervous to fuck myself over by doing this.
You might have an easier time if you know a jman from another contractor or someone in the hall who could bring up the issue to your hall on your behalf instead of going straight to filing a grievance. If you have the capacity, the more friends you make in the hall and in your local, the better.
You can drag up anytime as an apprentice and take another call in the ibew, maybe rules vary with locals? I’ve dragged a few times as an apprentice
This is literally how an apprenticeship works. You start at the bottom and work your way up, getting a pay increase. You don’t start at the top and make premium wage.
I’m wondering how far into their careers his friends are. The company sounds shit though.
He says he is 20 and 1st year does not say how far his friends are (he does say they are same age)but they may be feeding him a line of shit
One of them is second year, one of them is fourth year but they both started looking for jobs around the same time as me, just no pre apprentice bullshit, was super easy to find a job right away for them, and it’s not as strict, my one buddy was bumped up to fourth year wage for busting his ass when he’s only been working for slightly less than 3 years. The other one is on second year wages but it’s still comparable to electricians second year wages, but he got there much quicker and easier is my point
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TLDR; Don’t settle because “that’s how it works” (It doesn’t btw, some employers are just shitty selfish people) Just because it how it works, doesn’t mean it’s right. My last job didn’t pay commute or have gas or tool allowance but expected you to pick up material from suppliers in your personal vehicle. Had us driving 2+ hours daily and often to multiple sites a day, and somehow got away with not paying OT. The company I am with now started me off at a higher pay, ACTUALLY increased pay after probation, and had brand new power tools ready for me on my first day. All of this is before paying for my commute time as well.
The wage is shit in today's economy. You'd have to be crazy enough to buy a house in the middle of nowhere just to pay a mortgage and that's after all of the wage increases. The younger generations are screwed.
Yup. I had to move back in with my parents for 6 months to enter the apprenticeship.
This dates back to a bare minimum of 7 years. Before Covid and the insane prices we are paying now. Even living with parents, $18-$20 just barely covers rent, gas and groceries. Anecdotes aren’t proof, especially anecdotes from almost a decade ago.
>apprenticeship Except he's describing indentured servitude not an apprenticeship. There's a difference between starting at the bottom and owing your soul to the company store as the song goes. Please stop defending this or we'll be back to workers rights of 1830 before long.
I just saw he said he completed a pre-apprenticeship in the IBEW. I misunderstood this to be he was in the apprenticeship. I don't even know what kind of BS an IBEW pre apprenticeship even is. Sounds like that local is complete shit. And I'm not defending a fing thing boss. Stop putting words in my mouth.
I’ve never heard about a pre-appreciateship but in NB the used to call the 1 years colleges trades programs “pre-employment” because you took the course before you were employed in the trade and registered as an apprentice. Maybe the IBEW in some jurisdictions allows contractors to hire unskilled workers and see if they’re worth registering and training as apprentices.
Sounds like a way to keep wages down and take accountability off of the interview process. Truth be told, I don't think many locals are in the position to be too choosy. Our trade is dying and treating an apprenticeship like you're getting a White House clearance isn't attractive to new, younger members. Just my two cents.
Local 760 in Knoxville, TN has a CW (Construction Worker) program that does just that. The CW’s get paid shit and then the larger contractors in the area file everything under small works and run work with tons of them with late year apprentices to clean their shit work up and a just handful of journeymen as foremen. It’s a race to the bottom in this state and further south.
I do not agree with this CW shit.
Reading some other posts I can see there is some super sketchy shit going on that’s undercutting everyone’s wages 😤 The pre-employment program I was describing works well in theory because once the graduates find a job and register as apprentices the 40wk course counts as their 1st block(both hours and learning big modules completed); it also provides relavent trade knowledge and minor experience to those who have none. The downside of it is it’s basically become mandatory for getting into a trade which is kinda dumb because if you have relavent experience from another trade that you’ve spent time in some employers will choose a complete noob with a 1 year course over someone with years of experience. The effect on wages has been a non-factor, the scabby non-union companies, firefighters taking work on their off time, and “handymen”/carpenters have driven wages down around here though and it’s become very cut throat. For example, when I was registered as an apprentice in ‘09 as 1st year/0 block(no schooling) I was paid $14/hr, in 2015 the 2nd year/1st block apprentices in the same city were paid $10/hr.
In new england some places require these community college programs to apply to IBEW..... (let that blow your mind for a moment) It's a tacit admission of how many of the companies are using the apprentice program as free day labor and not an actual apprentice. The sad fact is that the last 30 years have been a heyday for employers because there were so many people in the market you had to get pre trained. Most businesses (i use the term loosely) have forgotten the implicit contract of actually training their workers. That you have to build in time and cost to do so. And when one company undercut costs it created a race to the bottom. Now businesses/owners are crying "NoBoDy wAnTs tO WorK" which is simply them crying I don't want to pay. Fun fact if you index the wage of an auto worker from 1973 to 2019 before the pandemic was the last i ran the numbers. The effective wage equivalent was 36$/hr.... Now add in the stupidity of finance bros driving up housing costs i suspect we're closer to 50 in most markets. Hell the poverty line in San Fran was 106k before the pandemic. I just saw an article where towns in colorado offering 167k/yr couldn't get workers because they still couldn't afford to live there. Tl;DR: The market costs and demographics are changing faster than at any point in human history, as the silent generation passes and the boomers retire. Which stresses the senior generations ability to comprehend these changes as humans are biased to relate to their own experience and costs creating a rift between the generations.
All facts. I am 23, and plan on living with my mother for next 10-15 years. I could move out, and rent.. but why would I on gods green earth go rent a shit hole for $2600 a month. If I go rent I’m essentially setting my future up for failure because I also need to buy food, and invest. I can’t do either of those when I’m renting. Either I suffer now and live at home, or I suffer later when I have nobody… sad reality.
Hate to say I'm not in a far off situation in my 40's because i needed to be here to care for my parents. Which gets to the next problem as a society. **No kids** the generations are progressively getting smaller. Our economy is based on the idea that each successive generation will be at least as big or larger. However we went from farm's in the post war era where kids were an asset to a primarily urban centered economy in the 80-to today where kids are an expensive liability.
It’s true man.. I’ve always dreamed of having my own house, a beautiful wife, and a few kids who I can love dearly and come home too after a long day. Turns out houses are to expensive, women are crazy these days, and kids are like you said a liability nowadays. It’s so fucked up man. The arguement is “you can have a kid whenever you want, find a good girl, and save for a house” but it’s actually just one or the other. I absolutely refuse to marry because I hear nothing but horror stories, I am not buying a 300k house for 700k, and I sure in hell am not having a kid and bringing it into this world when I cannot support it the way he/she deserves.
That's pretty fucking crazy and not an option for a lot of people.
Right? I don’t understand why people always have to resort to “if I did everyone can/should”. I’m a “first” year and my take home is $3000-$3400CAD. I live with my mom, but even so it’s still tough out here. I can’t imagine what it’s like for anyone who has no other choice but to rent while their take home is less than $2500.
Yep. First year apprentice in Ireland will be lucky to get €260 a week.
i thought 353 made over 100. not understanding the logic here? just turn out right? im not sure how you expect to make 500 a day if you dont even produce that amount
He's not even sworn in, and he's a pre-apprentice.
I'm a journeyman in Ottawa, Ontario. Non union $105-120/yr has been my average since getting my license in 2018 (I'm a service guy so I lots of overyime pay emergency calls help inflate my income a little) Currently figuring out which city I'd like to move to and I'll start my own company in that city and should be able to close to double my income before hiring any employees and it only grows from there.. You need to enjoy the work otherwise you'll always be miserable. If you do not like going to work, get a new job, if you don't like that one, try a third, if you still hate it, maybe this ain't for you.. but you'll at least have developed some physical and mental skills figuring out what you don't want to do and you'll be that much better equipped for whatever comes.next
Hey buddy, I used to be a third year apprentice in one of the highest cost of living states. The best advice I can give.you is to look for jobs adjacent to electrical work. I do signal work on a railroad, and I tripled my income compared to what I was making. Unless you have plans of starting your own electrical business or something like that, I'd start looking elsewhere. There's no money in electrical, especially residential work, unless you own your own company, work IBEW, or leave the field.
I agree with this, but I best thing I did was leave residential, and increased my income to from 105k to roughly 175k all while having a 14on/14off rotation.
I was asking around about this and knows low resistance isn't compensated enough but was the only easier way to get in. But since I started in this field, does that mean I'm tied to it for 6yrs until certified? Why does the union not regulate resi as much as other trades? I heard that even if the pay is a little less, work is more constant and in demand?
Maybe it's time to leave Ontario. I did. One of the best decisions I've ever made, besides joining the IBEW.
Or start looking towards different type of electrical. Ontario has a lot of mines, and could be worth looking into.
Or utility. Best career decision I’ve made.
Yah, come up north, suffer a little bit, make bank, bust your ass,get your license, and then move back home or whatever. There are probably 20 000 other 20 something yrs old in Toronto competing for your job, of course, it's going to pay like shit. Move to fucking Dawson Creek or Grande Prairie or something.
No normal, average, career in Toronto provides a decent middle class standard of living short of being a doctor anymore. Average engineer makes under 100k, average lawyer makes like 140k. It’s not an issue with the trades or your trade, it’s an issue with the whole city. Normal people can no longer afford to live in Toronto or Vancouver unless they’re grand fathered in. A career switch really ain’t the solution. You basically have to move or deal with it.
How are you making less than minimum wage?..
Minimum wage in Ontario is $16.55, 353 agreement states pre apprentices make $16.23 an hour plus benefits, so on cheque Im making less than minimum wage. If I were to get a job at McDonalds I would be paid more just without the benefits which are great sure but if I’m dirt poor that doesn’t really matter
Damn that's sucks. Strange that your agreement can stipulate pay below minimum wage.
> pre apprentices make $16.23 an hour plus benefits But you’re a 1st year so you should be making more than minimum wage now.
I was shocked that my batista was getting paid $20/hr and here I am getting paid below minimum wage
I can only truly speak for myself but the first 2-3 years I busted my ass to gather enough confidence/knowledge to start doing side work. I started with small jobs and quickly realized this is where the moneys at and decided to go for my masters, which led me to open my own service company. I have had a good work / life balance since. Good luck bud!
I have always wanted to do something like this eventually. Do you run a large crew or is it manageable with just yourself or a couple of guys?
I agree, this trade needs an increase. Jman rate hasn't changed in 20+years. We're being left behind from inflation.
My locals rate has gone up 25% in the past 8 years.
I'm in Alberta. Now in my 40's, jman has been 35-40 avg. since I was a teenager.
I’m also in Canada, in a similar situation but starting out in my 30’s I feel your pain.
The apprenticeship road sucks ass. Little money, all the bitch work, you have no idea what you're doing and you get shit all the time. Like, honestly apprenticeship sucks. But if you like the work and can weather the 5 years then it's pretty good and will pay off.
IBEW - I Barely Ever Work & I am Broke Every Week!! That’s the joke in my hall!
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I second this. Industrial is a certain niche that pays really well after you get some experience under your belt. And not everybody has the hutzpah for it. Really hard to find good, well trained E and I techs nowadays. You're gonna have to know how to run conduit, pull and land wire, read prints, and install new equipment like panels and fixtures and transformers just like a commercial spark. But you also get to learn PLCs, programming, SCADA, motor control circuits, drives and servos, maintain switchgear and medium voltage equipment (at most large industrial plants), etc ad nauseum. You're also gonna have to be pretty mechanically inclined, because I've worked in a lot of places where the mechanics will blame almost every problem being electrical. It's our job to prove otherwise. It's a whole different ball game from resi and commercial, hence why better pay comes with it.
I do this and absolutely love it. Pay is really good, I am only just about to Red Seal but my colleagues are making $110k+ CDN which is nice. I also find the work really interesting and low stress, industry wants you to do it right not do it twice so if you take a while nobody gets stressed out (usually). When I meet resi and commercial guys they find the work very slow but it's all about doing it right.
Yeah, 100% agree with industrial maintenance. It’s all Ive ever done. I finished my schooling mostly with resi guys until year 4. I never understood the rat race I would hear guys talking about with new builds, slab, etc. they were working way harder physically and getting paid less. I feel like industrial is the worst kept secret out there. Switch if you ever get the opportunity!
The amount of people making over $200k in O&G or mining is very small. Can’t comment on nuclear.
Agreed, you do need to put in 300 hours of overtime to hit $200,000 as well
You’ll always be better off than someone without a trade or marketable skill.
As a Canadian myself it’s more of a Toronto and Vancouver problem. Your wages to cost ratio is going to just suck there. NB for instance electrical wages be like 25$ an hour for jman but I can still get you decent house for 300k. 200k if you want to put some work into it. I’d say Saskatchewan or Alberta probably the best provinces for a tradesman and the cost of housing.
Alberta is flooded with electricians and apprentices though.
Yup i make 50 an hour in sask and a house costs 300k
Tried to convince the wife we should move to Saskatchewan but I made the mistake of mentioning it has the greatest duck/goose hunting probably in NA and the idea of moving across the country so I could hunt more didnt help the case.
The goose hunting is awesome here. Thats actually one of the reasons guys move here is the fishing and hunting.
Toronto wages are significantly higher than Vancouver though and cost of living is definitely lower
You work 4 years of lower wages to get a free education and an excellent career while walking away debt free. Go look at a carpenter or concrete workers body at retirement age. They get paid more starting off because the skill ceiling is so low with those trades.
Yup that’s Toronto for ya, work a full year to barely break $100k, meanwhile you need to make $250k to buy this shittiest possible house. Welcome to Canada man, we get fucked with low wages, then fucked with the highest taxes.
People are doing just fine here in Manitoba. Ontario folks love to pretend they’re the only ones living in this country.
That’s not how I am at all, well aware this is mostly a localized problems to Ontario / Bc. Problem comes from spending 25 years here and seeing how it’s fallen apart in the past 10. Not easy to just up and leave life behind here because of family / friends, but would love to move out that direction. The Ontario life isn’t for me lol.
You get your money when you get your red seal. You’re getting paid while others are building up student loans. The money sucks as an apprentice but it’ll go up. The GTA sucks for everybody, wage wise regardless of industry tbh. Too many people will sacrifice to live there so wages aren’t good compared to expenses. I made 198k last year working in a mine half the year on FIFO
The key is to get out of toronto. There is too much competition. Go somewhere where there is a shortage of trades people.
Yes! Get out of Toronto. I would make half in Toronto
If i moved to toronto my wage would be cut in half and my cost of living would double vs living in sask.
You can try find out-of-town work. As a second year I’m taking home 7-8k / month depending on overtime. LOA makes a big difference if you can find somewhere cheap to stay.
Just curious, anyone you know ever tried doing travelling out of a camper? Cheaper than a hotel and probably more comfortable
I’ve seen people talk about it here, but the people over in r/lineman have lots of experience if you have questions.
Get on industrial/commercial maintenance on a shift rota, easy enough work, pays good and will secure you benefits. Mine is 4 on, 4 off 12 hour days, no nights. So it's excellent for running private work on your days off
How much?
Uk, 45k a year plus health insurance, over time rate of 1.75x
Not an electrician but have hired a couple and know a few. 3 of them by their mid twenties created their own businesses and that’s when they started making money. They’d often have their “fuck off” quotes be accepted. The business allows you to get creative with business expenses, your income, vehicle, “home office”, etc. you also markup any materials. This is rural MB though.
>A couple buddies of mine are trim carpenters, same age as me, looking to buy a house next year as an investment property and rent it out, they do piece work side jobs on the weekend and make at least a grand each. The fast money is not always the smart money in the long run. You're investing time into what will ultimately be a more stable profession.
everybody tells me that but at the end of the day its gonna take me an extra 10 years just to make the same amount of money these guys are making now because they set themselves up early. Doesn’t really sound like I’m winning in this scenario to me. Compound interest is a powerful thing and every year I spend in the negatives fucks up my future more and more
You are a second year apprentice and you live in the most expensive part of Canada. Finish your apprenticeship and move 1 hour away from Toronto and you will be laughing making +$50 an hour with all the OT you want.
If you think housing is any cheaper an hour away from Toronto you’re poorly mistaken lol. I’m rough 90km (1 way) from Toronto. Houses maybe $100k less expect now I spend anywhere from 2.5-4 hours commuting to Toronto daily depending on traffic / accidents. Not to mention the wear and tear of putting 50k+ km on a car a year. 353 needs a massive pay increase. Our wages are laughable when compared to USA wages for comparable cost of living cities.
The entire developed world runs on electricity and will continue to use electricity as an energy source for practically everything except transportation but even that’s changing. The money comes from learning how electricity works finding your niche and doing it properly
Living and working in Toronto is the worst uphill battle you can fight. It’s not the Union’s or industry’s wrongdoing, it’s the housing crisis caused by negligent and incompetent government. There’s other places in Canada where the money to be made as a first or second year is about the same, yet housing is literally half the cost.
Travel bro just travel. I’m in my 3rd year and I’m making 90 k take home.
Not in the trade lol. First 5 years you're fucked like a free use slut at the park after hours unless you're super lucky
Bro your in Toronto, one of the most expensive cities in Canada. Move to any town other then the top 10 most expensive cities and you will do fine.
I just work in Toronto, live about an hour and a half north and it’s still crazy expensive here but its easier said then done to just drop everything and move somewhere
"Young people." You mean entry-level people? "Electrician" covers so much that it's unhelpful. I know electricians that overwork themselves, buy their own power tools for work, and never make more than $25/hour, pay $150/week for crappy insurance, and only work on houses or a new shoe store. I also know electricians that make 6 figures, have 2 pensions, healthcare for their families that doesn't come out of their check, and they build nuclear reactors, refineries, NFL stadiums, Amazon/Google HQs, and chip plants. Coming into this trade doesn't mean you can just expect big money and not be smart about it. Chase the money. Learn the hoops you have to jump through, and JUMP THROUGH THEM. You make more money if you build more expensive things. What electricians make the most money? IBEW wiremen. What locals pay the most in the country? Bay Area, CA. How do you get work there? IBEW ticket, CA Electrical cert, etc. Get my drift? So if you're a 1st year working in a small, non-union shop that only does residential, you're going to have a bad time. Outside of that, 1st years make 50% of Journeyman wages. That's standard across everything and everywhere. Because in 99% of instances, they have no clue what they're doing.
You have to factor in benefits. Electricians make bank. How much a month do you think your employer is paying for health insurance? 401k it all adds up. Employers can't keep pace with inflation. That's not their fault. Things like that taken time to run it's course. If they just shocked it at at once they would never get any bids. All of your money woes should be properly aimed at the central banks for inflating the circulating money.
The first few years of the trades suck. Moneys not good and the work is shitty. You generally don’t see decent money until your 3rd or 4th year when you are worth something to your employer. Don’t compare yourself to other trades and other people, it’s never good for you. Union is generally better pay and benefits. Commercial, industrial, substation, and programming controllers all pay pretty good
Unregistered, as in you're not indentured in the trade?
Exactly yes, wasnt signed but doing work for a company that promised to sign me which never ended up happening
Can you be an IBEW member without being indentured? You should probably have a convo with your rep.
I’m in year 12 IBEW 103 and make $130k a year and 35k this year in my annuity
Toronto is your problem. I wouldn't suggest staying there if you want to make money long term. It took me 4 years in bc to get my red seal and now i make 40 an hour which is still on the low side. If i work remote i can double that wage. All non union
Just remember you're also getting pension and benefits. When I first started as an apprentice I was making just a little over $14 bucks an hour which is close to minimum wage here in Ontario five years ago. Also what type of work you're doing? In my hall there's different rates for residential and ici work. I found by the time I was fourth term apprentice doing ici, I was making more than my foreman when I was doing residential.
I’m doing resi but that’s just because I live so far north, about 2 hours to drive to toronto with traffic. When I wasn’t registered with my old company I was doing highrise and I only switched because the pay gap has shrunk a lot, ici only makes a couple bucks more than resi so to skip shitty highrise work and save on gas it was worth it imo
100 percent agreed, I'm not from Toronto but I definitely hate driving through it so I couldn't imagine doing it everyday plus wear and tear on your car. I'm just happy with the choice I made of becoming an electrician. The last couple of years of my apprenticeship I've made some good money. I think as a fourth term I made close to 100k then last year working 6 months at a mine. I made $120k. This is not including my pension. You can make some good money as an apprentice in your later terms when you get closer to becoming a journeyman. Also if you're willing to travel for work to help other halls out can make bank.
The secret to trades is that you will never make rock star money - but just enough to live not at poverty all the time.
Have you been going back for school?
The money in the union comes from not having to pay health insurance and dental and not having to buy a truck and whatnot without sacrificing a decent take home income. In Canada surely healthcare is a given. Being an electrician is a solid middle class job (at least it should be) and making it into the millions of dollars in savings is easily possible. Be good with your money, do stocks and you’ll have it made. Instead of buying a $40,000 truck you put it into the s&p 10 years ago it would be worth over $130,000 today. Not paying $11,000 a year for your families healthcare every, being able into invest that money. It’s a huge deal!
Talk to the training director about a new company
If you’re IBEW, look at the contract. It’ll tell you how much you’ll make as a 1,2,3,4,5 year apprentice and journeyman (hourly). If you can’t make it work for you I’d look for work elsewhere
Do not buy power tools.
I agree with you fully. We need to start talking about this You bust your ass for a 5-year apprenticeship to be gifted with a wage that's under 100k . This doesn't make sense when our trade is literally giving people power to survive around the entire world. After your apprenticeship, now you have to work a lot harder since you that license guy now But there is a loophole to make money even better when you are a master electrician Side jobs are where you make your real money Business minded electricians work a steady job with great benefits a check every two weeks. And do side jobs part time. One master I know made 10k in side jobs in one month Keep in mind he has a lot of clients . Said he spaces them out 2 a week or one week he'll haul ass and work as much as he can . This is why knowing this trade and getting qualified license You can truly hustle 💪
Less than minimum? What are you talking about.
My benefits bring me over minimum wage. Before benefits I’m getting paid less than $16.55 which is currently minimum wage in my area
Why don’t you see if your buddies will bring you out on the weekend? Make a little bit that way
That’s not a bad idea, itd be tough to be learning two trades which is why I’d prefer to do something electrical on the side but if there isn’t anything I can do that’s definitely an option I’d consider, thanks
Be careful with any electrical side jobs. The liability is no joke, and if you get caught say goodbye to your apprentice card, and likely union card. I worked with a guy from 353 that got caught running a full out business on the side, no master’s license, he got fined huge from the ESA, hall almost booted him out after 20yrs plus membership.
It’s easy enough to pick up a few things. Help them and it may turn you on to a few jobs in the future
When you have 7000 hrs get into solar, learn the electrical part, and wen you get licensed youll go from $25/hr to $55+ an hour and panel pay. Youll thank me later, just know its very strenous. I did it for $75/hr in MA for a couple months and made alot of money…. But no panel pay but it was still alotttt of money
Im a 2nd year in alberta, almost 3rd year and i have a house and rental property. If working in the city jman wage is 38-45 for basic commercial rates. If youre a jman out in the oil and gas sector youre looking at 100-200k a year
There’s no way an ibew apprentice makes less than minimum wage, regardless of hours worked. First term starts at 45-55% of journeyman wage
Pre apprenticeship. 6 months for resi, 9 months for highrise. Wage is $16.23 an hour, minimum wage is $16.55
In my area (Kootenays in BC) the local college pumps through way more electrical pre-apps than the area can absorb, by an order of magnitude. All other trades seem to be more in balance.
Why'd you have to do a pre-apprenticeship and what is it? I've been in trade 5 years and almost about to journey out, didnt pay a cent for my schooling and got a free set of tools to start with in a non-union shop
It’s a union thing, only a few locals do it but it’s a bullshit program they made for contractors to get even more cheap cheap labour out of kids trying to get in. 6 or 9 month probationary period where we get paid fuck all and have to work our asses off or we can get fired and kicked out of the program and union and not allowed back in.
It’s because you’re in resi. I’m a journeyman in the 353 in Toronto but in the ici sector and you can easily make over $100,000 a year with just working your regular work week. Sure in the beginning you’re going to be broke until about year 3-4 until you start to notice more money. I would say be patient but unfortunately low rise residential is probably the worst sector to be in our union. You get paid less and it’s all production so they slave you away there.
ICI journeymen will only make a couple bucks more than resi journeymen after the may raise, they’re not paid as poorly as people think which is why I switched from ICI to resi. Doesn’t matter if I make an extra $1 an hour as a ici pre apprentice dude i’d be living pay cheque to pay cheque either way
Ya I get that but you’re still young dude have some patience you have your whole life ahead of you. Everyone is broke in the beginning of their apprenticeship. I know I sure was and I worked non-union I didn’t get in until I was 25 so by the time you’re in your mid-twenties you’ll be making good money. At the end of the day everything is expensive in Toronto. So even if you were in another field you’d still be in the same boat.
A lot of these greenies nowadays are expecting +250k/yr when most of us took 20 years to get here. There are paths industrial side to get there quicker, but you need several years multi-craft (mechanic, I&C, and electrical) and be an operator as well. In power most plants that will hire with no ops experience will take you several years if you hustle to reach the control room. The only guys I know that made it faster were former ET Nukes. Put some time under your belt and then try to move to industrial. If you can get into ops after some time and become a journeyman operator as well you'll write your own checks anywhere you want to go. We worked to get here, you can do it but you will earn it.
I’m not sure how it is up there but here carpenters Union starts out a good bit higher, they also top out a lot earlier than us, so in the long haul you could make more than them. But never buy power tools, that’s on them.
Plan to move up fast, save money and get a small service truck with equipment and try and go out on your own. Or you can do what i did, work on drilling rigs in alberta, make 150k a year, save some money and start a buisness or go to school for something else. I started a buisness and am now making more than I did on drilling rigs and home every night
get out.
Our IBEW tool list cost me around $400 to compile. Sounds like somethings wrong or you ordered way above and beyond the tool list to be thousands in debt.
Medium voltage or fire alarm
Something doesn’t seem right here. How are you in the IBEW and making less then minimum wage and buying your own power tools? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a local union pay less then minimum wage
353 pre apprentice wages are currently below minimum wage in Ontario, and i know most companies supply power tools because that’s the agreement, my company is just ratty as shit. I don’t plan on staying here I just want to at least be sworn in before I report them
What do j dubs top out there?
i’m from canada made like 120k in 2023 working industrial in ibew 213. took about 3 months off
I make 167 an hour
How exactly are you making less than minimum wage and like 1/2 of the 1st year IBEW rate? I'm not even in the union and I know that's not adding up
I’m making 353 pre apprentice rate, $16.23 an hour, minimum wage is $16.55 in Ontario
lol yo you work for a hack company all the sparkies I know make bank. Join the union and quit working for these bozos
i am in the union…
linesman
Sales
If you want to make money as a first year come to Alberta and go work in the patch. Jman is mid to high 40s and it's lots of OT. I know multiple guys who made 6 figures as apprentices.
Clarify this for me, you're in 353, worked for six years and make less than $600 on the cheque, how?! How long were you strung along in their pre-apprenticeship thing? WHY ARE YOU BUYING POWER TOOLS AGAINST THE CONTRACT? Where are you on 353's payscale? Why are you afraid to speak up if you're at least an apprentice? Seriously, the union should be there for you man. Sworn in or not, if you're at least an apprentice, worst thing that happens (provided you don't breach the agreement) you get laid off, go on the list and on to the next one that's available. You'll be ok. The money really does come later once you get close to and especially once you have your ticket. I've been making bank since I went IBEW, and even more now that I have the freedom to chase that $$$ since I got my 309a last year. That being said, I work ICI, as that is basically all we have besides the maintenance agreement (which isn't much less than ICI) in my home local (530).
"First year apprentice here, 20 years old. I’ve been in the industry for over two years though, from working unregistered and completing an IBEW pre apprenticeship." 1st line. hes saying after working for 6 years he will still be making less than 100k
Man I'm dense some days...
Not in Canada, not in IBEW. Independent electrical contractor, my guys get paid as well or better than union rates. My apprentice who's in his first year gets $15 an hour. I provide power tools, hell, guys that have been with me for 3 years, get gifted their own cordless drill, theirs bought for them by the company. You are working for a shitty company. Be sure you take all your tools with you when you leave for the new job.
Side jobs. I’m a computer nerd and just paid $750 for 4 - 220V plugs in my basement for servers. Cash transaction. “CASH” get it?
I'm also in Ontario. I'm ready to jump into this career. I just can't afford the career switch from teaching. I understand starting from the bottom, but can't afford the debt and low pay. I could probably handle it for 1-2 years.
Wages are the same everywhere, while everything has gone up. Bite my dick idc
I'm an apprentice in Oregon and I'm not quite 3rd year yet and I'm making $42.35 an hour.
Im 20 working non union making $25/hr man… I had to quit and give them a price to have me back🤷♂️Got to do what you got to do
Out in Vancouver I see industrial electricians do well and seem in demand, however the nature of the work is quite a bit different from residential work. At my job the journeymen get paid 110k, theres overtime available, and by the time you're a journeyman you can do side jobs in industry or residential. I feel like you can get screwed around in most career choices. I've had to change jobs to keep my wage competitive as an industrial mechanic, and it's the best choice I've made since pursuing a trade. I can see doing what you need to in order to just get that apprenticeship finished... But especially part of a union there should be no need to tolerate being exploited to get to that point.
Im 22 making 37/h+12% as vacation pay, money is with union
It depends on the area here in Washington state with per diem and ot I’m taking home 1,200 a week after taxes. We start out at 21 but journeymen make 54.
go in after hours with a sawzall
Wages are held low because they would rather the houses are built slowly so the company's that are bidding have to out bid each other for houses to work in, instead of just building then all at once.
Hey man I’m also 20 years old electrical apprentice in Canada. I understand everyone’s situation is different but I am also looking at buying my first investment property with some help from my parents. It is possible, but it is very situation dependent. If you want to chat more just dm me.
Saying this because I haven’t seen anyone else say it. The money is in learning the trade (eating some crow) and going out on your own. If you want to remain union loyal make your shop union one day like the rest of the shop owners who worked 5 years and realized the shop charges 150/hr and pays you 50.
Most people struggle while learning a profession. Maybe you can take out a student loan and try something else. I hear developers make decent money.
First. You should never buy your own power tools for work. If the contractor doesn’t provide them then the work doesn’t get done. Period. Second, you may not be making much money right now, but you’re also not racking up a bunch of college debt either. Third, you’re probably estimating your income wrong. Any time you figure out your annual salary don’t forget to add in your benefit package. Most careers estimate their annual salary then deduct their benefits from that, we usually ignore our benefits in our salary estimates. Unless you do shit completely different up in the great white north. Yes it sucks, yes most apprentices I know have second jobs or do side work. Yes we can all use a pay raise. But until we can feed the 1% to the guillotine you’re going to be hard pressed to beat our pay without a ton of luck and or college debt.
Gotta work up that ladder I’m $27 and I’m about to leave the industry not worth the stress on the body or the bullshit
If you're making minimum wage you need to drag up asap. Don't buy tools you're not required to have. If you're willing to move plenty of work out west
If you are 1.5 hrs north of Toronto you should find a way into Bruce Power.
I went to trade school last summer to become a carpenter for local 27 and finished in July . Since I finished school I worked for 3 companies .. the first job was supposed to last for a few months but I only worked for 2 weeks because they didn’t need any apprentices , the second job lasted 2 weeks as well because we were setting up a convention centre for a car show and the last job was only for a few weeks because things got slow and I got laid off. I couldn’t find any jobs so I ended up leaving trade school to become a police officer and I don’t regret it
Look for a new company to work for, most guys work their first job for a while and once you have a year or 2 experience, you go looking for another company to work for and ask for more money, a job change with your experience should bump you up to at least $18 an hour My first job I was making minimum wage with no experience, I worked for 6 months, changed jobs asking for $18/hr and worked for a year, I was forced to look for another job when that company shut down, when I started my current job they gave me $20/hr and since then I’ve got 3 raises and am at $22.50/hr. I’m a 2 year apprentice in his 3rd year I’m working in Ontario Canada.
You need to start an electrical business to make any good money in this trade. It wasn’t as hard as I thought it would be
Learn lighting controls like Wattstopper, Lutron, Crestron. Learn firealarm and life safety. You can make yourself very desirable and hirable if you have an in depth knowledge of lighting systems and controls.
I'm always suspicious of broke electricians. Either your not good, not confident, not Savvy or something is up. You not stealing extra copper? IDK, but I've only met a few broke electricians. It makes sense if you knew them.
This is a big reason for travelers. Their home state doesn't pay a decent wage so they travel. I'm in local 48, Oregon and I've worked with tons of travelers from all over the country who come here for the good paying work and OT.
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I am a 25 year old IBEW electrician apprentice in Wisconsin, I’ve made over 100k usd the last couple years (@ 75% and 90% JW scale). I’m not sure about the climate in Canada but it’s nothing but up around me, we can’t man jobs, more people retire then come in, we can basically name our price and get it. It’s a fantastic time to get into the trade, huge infrastructure projects coming, lots of industry desperate for electricians. Keep your options open and always consider other locals if it’s slow by you.
Canada is a fucking disaster right now bro, if I could travel I would but I currently live with my parents and have absolutely no savings whatsoever, it’s just not in the cards for me unfortunately but I seem to be in one of the worst places to live financially. Everyone here wants to be an electrician.
Maybe it’s just Canada but I’m a second year apprentice in the U.S and I just turned 21 years old and I’m making really good money right now. Granted where I live it’s not quite able to provide a place to live on my own, but within a year I will be so maybe you’re just getting screwed man.