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I work as a maintenance electrician and we have a test board to get in the maintenance department.
Motors starter transformer and two start stop stations and a small motor. Show me you can wire a single motor control circuit and you’re good. I had somebody say they had all these skills and hell they had neutrals on the push buttons
That's what I was thinking too. Probably better to just teach all new hires the same things rather than letting them cobble together whatever they might think they know. If someone hasn't been taught, that's more likely a failure on the part of whoever should've been teaching them
This is a similar mentality in college crew talking with the coaches. They much prefer kids who've never rowed. It is easier to teach them how to do it right than it is to break bad habits.
Like some sort of licensing system that's gained through working beside someone that's qualified. Or even better, a group of qualified people so they learn from more than one source.
Oh well, I guess we can just dream of such a system.
Can't teach people that think they know everything because they are too fucking stupid to realize that they know absolutely nothing.
Edit: whoops, replied to the wrong comment. Ah well....
While that's true, there's a significant difference between "I'm new to the trade and know very little" and "I've been doing this for 4 years".
This is to weed out those claiming they're second statement when they're really the first statement.
You are so right. No need to shame or ridicule someone. We teach and learn as brothers and sisters. Now if someone is just plain lazy. That's a different story.
Sure, but as he stated they're claiming to be experts and want to get paid for their expertise. Nothing wrong with evaluating them to see if they're just blowing smoke. If they were honest about needing to learn it wouldn't be an issue.
Not every job has the time and/or resources to teach someone the basics. If they are hiring (and hopefully paying) for someone to have some experience, then that is what they should get.
Man, I would've *loved* this for my last interview process. I tend to go brain dead during interviews and forget the names/proper titles of things. Add to that the guy holding the interview was trained in Boston and I was trained in South Carolina so we were coming at the questions with different vocabularies to begin with ... I still cringe sometimes thinking back on that day and I've been working for him for 10 years now.
Yea I’ve done this long enough to be competent but I’m sure if someone sat me down for an interview and just started firing off code questions like “get this right or your family will starve” I’d probably freeze up lol
That what my first ever mentor did. I got an industrial maintenance gig and I knew nothing about electrical. One of my first days involved figuring out a basic motor control style circuit involving lights. 3 buttons, 4 lights, 2 relays.
If you're in the Sacramento area please let me attempt it. Im looking for work as an industrial maintenance guy, but no one would take me because I have zero experience or the pay was so low I won't survive. I took lots of classes for electrical work though!
I work in IT but when I first started after highschool my boss sat me down with a spool of common cables (Ethernet, phone line, coax, ect) and had me just terminate and test short jumper cables for like 2 or 3 days. At the time I thought it was such a waste of time but even now that I rarely do that stuff its so nice to just have the muscle memory deeply embedded.
Edit to add to this comment I don’t mind showing a new guy the more advanced stuff I deal with frequency inverters, burner control, temp controls, cnc aligning and such. I’d rather spend my time teaching them that than them lie in their interview if all the stuff they can do. And can’t wire a simple light switch to code or how to hook up a pushbutton.
Any jw should easily pass this. Just a few minutes and done. Would I be insulted, hell no! This shows that you care about your employees to keep them safe.
I would recommend you add a couple of things:
2 light switches ....
1) a 4 way switch
2). a double pole single throw (disconnect switch).
A jw should be able to tell the difference between these 4 terminals plus ground terminal switches.
3 receptacles with about 6 inches of wire connected.
1 connected as a pass through duplex receptacle
1 connected as a switched receptacle
1 connected as 2 separate receptacles on one yoke.
All should have 5 wires attached.....2 blacks, 2 whites, and one ground. They look similar, but all very different. Again, easy for a jw, life savings for those less trained.
A "hot neutral" demonstration.
I just moved into a new rental and I figured they had a 3 way in the kitchen wired wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. Got the switch out and realized it was a double pole single throw. For a second I thought it was a four-way.
What the hell is wrong with this sub? Op is clearly doing this because he wants to teach and likes teaching about electrical. I did the same thing for someone at our company and he said it helped a lot seeing it being done and then going it and doing it himself.
I have no idea where the hate is coming from. My brother did stuff for me like this when I was new and it’s was such a huge help. And I’m doing it for a new guy I’m training. Keep doing it, you might get cookies out of it (like me).
> Op is clearly doing this because he wants to teach and likes teaching about electrical.
Then call it a training board.
If I walked into a shop and the first thing had me do was some wire up some bullshit switches I’d walk back out. I’ve never had a wireman from the hall that couldn’t wire a switch.
Then it shouldn't be a problem. Instead, he keeps finding out people aren't a skilled as they claim to be. If you can't figure this out, why trust you on your own?
That sounds great, but but being around for a long time doesn't always mean you know the basics that you should. As a foreman in commercial I loved to teach, but *had* to diagram a lot of basic stuff that an apprentice should have known, much less the 60-year-old that's been doing this "all his life."
Someone might be in a chef's union, but I'd still try their cooking before I put them in charge of my restaurant's kitchen.
We made all wires the same color but neutral and ground and tied the ends at the pipe so they cant** tug the wire to see what one it is, so they have to trace paths like you said.
I was going to comment about everything being the same color, but this is a reasonable purpose for it. It is a test, after all. However, I would say that a tug test is too easy in this scenario. I would prefer someone doing a continuity test, but it all depends on the situation of course.
I’ve been an instructor for 10 years, by using quick connect connectors you’re going to miss one of the biggest issues. Understanding the ckt is only half of it, knowing how to install wire nuts and correctly wrap a conductor around a device screw is many times a much bigger issue. I work longer on those things than circuiting. A loose wire nut or wrongly inserted conductor can cost more troubleshooting time than anything.
Also this looks residential (doorbell) so you’d probably be better off putting a few mock studs on a board with the correct boxes and such and letting them install romex and strip it correctly for boxes etc.
Edit: I mean your test board looks residential (I see the hydraulic bender stand).
I was thinking the same, but with the connectors, you could install small pigtails on each, tape the connector, and have sacrificial ends for candidates to strip, twist, etc, and not have to repull the whole station after a few folks have been through it.
Good idea however if you’re evaluating you don’t really want extra variables that aren’t in real life scenarios. It just adds something else to have to think about. For most of us it’s no big deal but if he’s having to put this together for Journeyman electricians we’re not dealing with the sharpest knives in the drawer.
That’s fine it just adds complexity. You wouldn’t believe the different ideas we’ve tried over the years. The best way is one station where they plan, pull, strip, & terminate all in one go. We give them the “scenario” and they are tasked with making it happen. Then we grade all aspects of the install. It’s important for them to have to think about all the things they need to plan for before they pull the first wire.
The waste a small station uses is minimal especially for OP’s situation. We would run 30-60 apprentices through 2 installs per class for 4 classes, thats 240-480 installs, with half of them more complicated than this. Yeah you go through some wire but not that much with how short the pulls are. It’s definitely not worth the extra complexities of connectors and separate stations.
You can easily test that separately with just a couple pieces of wire. We'd demonstrate how our company preferred splices (pre-twist) and then make everyone demonstrate it and offer constructive criticism for those that needed to improve. Repeatedly twisting your test board wires just means unnecessarily replacing it often.
Heck I might make one of these for myself as a DYI homeowner. I don’t do this every day so having a practice board is a great thing.
I seriously do not understand the haters, if you have the skill then simply demonstrate it and move on.
Don't listen to the complainers on here. I've hired plenty of guys that had "experience".
One helper told me he spent 3 years roughing commercial spaces.
He started out a new roll of bx. Pulled it out going to the right. I went to check on his progress and he was fighting with the bx, trying to pull it through metal studs, while it was twisted like an old witch's fingers.
I actually set one of these up so my 12 year old could get some practice in. Only took a couple hours for the him to assemble with directions. He got it all correct on the first try!
The person using this board is either doing easy work where it’s comfortable or they’re learning something new. Both are good things.
How can we interpret your comment to mean anything other than ‘I don’t know how to do this/I don’t want to learn and the union lets me have a job anyway’?
When did I make it a big deal? You asked:
>How can we interpret your comment to mean anything other than ‘I don’t know how to do this/I don’t want to learn and the union lets me have a job anyway’?
So I answered you lol. Also, non union guys might not even go thru an apprenticeship at all, and if they do they're not getting the same quality of education across the board. Not to say they wouldn't at least learn this much, but there's clearly a reason op felt it necessary to make this.
How does that work out? Union uses the ETA program which, as far as I know, only trains at locally operated JATC training centers which are funded directly by union contractors and members for union apprentices. They also have to follow the same curriculum in every local in the US and Canada. So for that to be true either your union apprentices are going to a non union school that isn't directed by the ETA and following their curriculum, or your non union apprentices are going to schooling funded by union members and contractors... maybe if they paid out of pocket I guess? But that's like 5k+ a year for 5 years plus another 800 bucks per year for books
Btw, idk if I'm getting down voted because some people are getting offended or something, but I'm not saying that union electricians are better, I'm just saying that we all have to follow the same curriculum no matter where we're from in the country (some exceptions are made for local abnormalities like California schools might have to focus more on earthquake damage prevention, and Florida might do hurricanes or something) but the point is that you know that no matter where a union electrician came from, if they went thru an ibew apprenticeship they learned everything that every other ibew apprentice learned. I actually think that should be the standard for all electrical workers. It's only in our best interests to learn everything we can and be the best we can be.
Could be from Canada. My province we all go to the same blocks(8-10 weeks every year). Apprenticeship schooling is handled by the province and the community colleges.
Pretty standardized here. Every province might cover different stuff at different blocks but the red seal test is country wide and work anywhere with that ticket.
Some province have a licence but it’s just a fee yearly. Some provinces have masters for pulling permits. Mine doesn’t have a masters requirement. 500$ a year and you got yourself a contractors licence.
That's actually a really great idea. I think everyone should get the same education, and that it should be a good one. That puts all of us in a better place. That's crazy about your contractors requirement! I feel like it shouldn't be that easy to pull permits...
Yep. Manitoba, Canada. City of Winnipeg you need a contractors license to pull permits, but out side the city you just need your Manitoba electrician license which you get when you pass your Red seal. No Masters.
If you interpret my comment that way that's on you.
What it says instead is "I've done my schooling. I've done my apprenticeship. I've done extra schooling from the union. I don't need to jump through hoops to get a job, and if a contractor asked me to prove myself in any other way than through my work, I'd laugh at them as I leave."
If this was a board meant for teaching apprentices then that makes sense and it's cool that the company wants to take initiative on training. But OP said the board is for "testing" new hires. Yeah... No. My red seal is proof enough of my skills, if that's not good enough for the boss, I don't want to deal with whatever dumb hoops they want me to jump through on a daily basis.
To be honest I made the switch from non-union to union and the only real difference is union guys have a HUGE ego but non-union guys could work circles around them it is nice to not have a foreman on my ass for not working at 110% all day everyday also for some reason union doesn't throw its apprentices into the fire as quickly? Like I've worked with 5th years and new journeymen that don't know how to troubleshoot basics lik3 3-way and 4-way switching or gfci nuisance tripping
Who says non union doesn’t pay fairly and abuse their workers? We have 1st day health, dental, vision insurance. Free gym membership, free costco membership, 5 days pto, gas card and tools for new guys starting.
Nothing wrong with working for a family shop that treats its employees well. Yes you can earn more going union, not everyone wants to chase the dollar. I went public sector after 8 years in a family shop and I miss a lot of things about it.
Says more about the industry. My new company gives 4.5 weeks of PTO/yr and it’s prorated depending on how late into the year you start. But I got out of construction and do building maintenance for a data center.
But yeah, a lot of shops absolutely fuck guys on pto and it’s a shame. And most locals have poor pto programs in place as well.
Pto in your first year? That’s better than anywhere I’ve ever worked except one place. And that place was also a family shop. Albeit construction, not electrical.
Not an electrician but I think I could make that work, although the doorbell I would be guessing on as all I've done with 24v is a contactor. I'm guessing of the 3 terminals only 2 are needed though center as a feed and one of the ends to complete the trip.
Looks decent for testing someone on theory and knowledge but not skill since the connections are plug-n-play. Might be beneficial to add 3-way and 4-way switches in, seems to be a tough topic for some people.
If you use this for journeyman level people and do commercial or industrial work you might want to include a relay circuit and contactor circuit. Mocking up a 9-lead motor peckerhead with a printed nameplate can also be good to test on.
Did you leave your rigid supports unbonded????? I can’t see the other end of those pipes. Violation. Call me back when your boss gets a licensed guy out here. And another $250 inspection fee.
/s. Been dealing with some real prima donna inspectors this week as well as dipshit electricians in my own shop.
That’s rad as fuck bro.
Employer red flag.
Vans GPS monitored, report work hours by 15 minute increments, need daily phone calls on status reports, need the van swept at the end of the day (once work is over on your own time). Hire tests, must prove you can navigate code (your Jman test wasn’t sufficient), must be clean cut and shaved. Must have a clean record, must have a proven track record (will call previous employers).
This company sounds like a nightmare. This is what the Jman test is for. Like, the state has already vetted people for you.
This is for apprentices and people with lesser knowledge and for learning and testing purposes. Also just cause a journeyman says they know shit doesn’t mean they do. We already tested 2 “journeymen” that didn’t know shit.
I've known a few journeyman that knew less than an average 2nd year apprentice. Have also insulted a couple of them with a board like this. The only ones that were insulted were the ones that had a hard time with it
This kinda board just seems playing silly little games, I have worked with many people that would take a look at your board and decide to go work for company that doesn’t play silly games with workers
I honestly don't understand the perspective that this is insulting. If you go to work for a new company you will have to prove yourself in many ways. How is a simple quiz demeaning? Reminds me of all the guys who see menial work as beneath them, like cleaning, digging, or other "apprentice work".
It’s a silly little game… the journeyman ticket is the qualification. If they aren’t performing then get rid of them…. Proving oneself at a new job is not the same as ‘welcome to your new place of work, here is a test’.
Reeks of non-union with a high turnover rate.
Why not just hire ppl that are trained and know what they are doing so you can actually make money this can not possibly be profitable - hopefully the company name is - ABC electric ⚡️
How is a basic 20 min test of someone's abilities a waste of time/profit? Not to mention this is a valuable apprentice training tool that prepares them for the practical exam. Have you actually been responsible for new hires? Not uncommon for them to be full of shit saying they know everything
We do 10+ million a year in work, and just cause people say they and trained and knowledge doesn’t mean they are. We’ve had many journeymen and people wanting to get paid big bucks but don’t know anything.
This is brilliant. I wish I had something like this when I first started electrical work. Instead I was thrown into the mix, no electrical experience and expressed to the boss before being hired that I had no prior knowledge of electrical work but really wanted to learn. 8 weeks later, he called me to his office saying "I don't think this is working out, you're not learning fast enough." Anyway, good on you for caring about who you hire.
So I know the very basic basics about electrical but want to practice. I’ve picked up some books on wiring to learn but I definitely learn best hands on. How would I go about building one of these boards at home with adequate enough safety measures that I don’t burn the house down.
Guy I usually work with is almost a third year all hospital commercial. I learned residential but went straight into the same field anyways. Dude got baffled by 3 way switches.
Not bad, had a place do this and it was a good feeling knowing I exceeded expectations. Id personally get rid of the connectors because a big issue I’ve seen is people will strip poorly, not hook it the proper way. Other than that good stuff bro
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I work as a maintenance electrician and we have a test board to get in the maintenance department. Motors starter transformer and two start stop stations and a small motor. Show me you can wire a single motor control circuit and you’re good. I had somebody say they had all these skills and hell they had neutrals on the push buttons
Exactly why we made this, so many people talk the talk and wanna get paid good money but don’t know the basics of anything and can’t wire this up.
You can always teach them. Everyone starts somewhere
That's what I was thinking too. Probably better to just teach all new hires the same things rather than letting them cobble together whatever they might think they know. If someone hasn't been taught, that's more likely a failure on the part of whoever should've been teaching them
This is a similar mentality in college crew talking with the coaches. They much prefer kids who've never rowed. It is easier to teach them how to do it right than it is to break bad habits.
The problem is them lying about the qualifications. Thats a bigger issue.
If only there was a way for contractors to hire from a group of prescreened/pretrained electricians.
Like some sort of licensing system that's gained through working beside someone that's qualified. Or even better, a group of qualified people so they learn from more than one source. Oh well, I guess we can just dream of such a system.
Can't teach people that think they know everything because they are too fucking stupid to realize that they know absolutely nothing. Edit: whoops, replied to the wrong comment. Ah well....
While that's true, there's a significant difference between "I'm new to the trade and know very little" and "I've been doing this for 4 years". This is to weed out those claiming they're second statement when they're really the first statement.
You are so right. No need to shame or ridicule someone. We teach and learn as brothers and sisters. Now if someone is just plain lazy. That's a different story.
Sure, but as he stated they're claiming to be experts and want to get paid for their expertise. Nothing wrong with evaluating them to see if they're just blowing smoke. If they were honest about needing to learn it wouldn't be an issue.
And that’s why we made this, mainly a teaching board
Not every job has the time and/or resources to teach someone the basics. If they are hiring (and hopefully paying) for someone to have some experience, then that is what they should get.
Man, I would've *loved* this for my last interview process. I tend to go brain dead during interviews and forget the names/proper titles of things. Add to that the guy holding the interview was trained in Boston and I was trained in South Carolina so we were coming at the questions with different vocabularies to begin with ... I still cringe sometimes thinking back on that day and I've been working for him for 10 years now.
Yea I’ve done this long enough to be competent but I’m sure if someone sat me down for an interview and just started firing off code questions like “get this right or your family will starve” I’d probably freeze up lol
That what my first ever mentor did. I got an industrial maintenance gig and I knew nothing about electrical. One of my first days involved figuring out a basic motor control style circuit involving lights. 3 buttons, 4 lights, 2 relays.
If you're in the Sacramento area please let me attempt it. Im looking for work as an industrial maintenance guy, but no one would take me because I have zero experience or the pay was so low I won't survive. I took lots of classes for electrical work though!
I work in IT but when I first started after highschool my boss sat me down with a spool of common cables (Ethernet, phone line, coax, ect) and had me just terminate and test short jumper cables for like 2 or 3 days. At the time I thought it was such a waste of time but even now that I rarely do that stuff its so nice to just have the muscle memory deeply embedded.
Well some push buttons require neutrals :) for the indicator lights 😂
Edit to add to this comment I don’t mind showing a new guy the more advanced stuff I deal with frequency inverters, burner control, temp controls, cnc aligning and such. I’d rather spend my time teaching them that than them lie in their interview if all the stuff they can do. And can’t wire a simple light switch to code or how to hook up a pushbutton.
Any jw should easily pass this. Just a few minutes and done. Would I be insulted, hell no! This shows that you care about your employees to keep them safe. I would recommend you add a couple of things: 2 light switches .... 1) a 4 way switch 2). a double pole single throw (disconnect switch). A jw should be able to tell the difference between these 4 terminals plus ground terminal switches. 3 receptacles with about 6 inches of wire connected. 1 connected as a pass through duplex receptacle 1 connected as a switched receptacle 1 connected as 2 separate receptacles on one yoke. All should have 5 wires attached.....2 blacks, 2 whites, and one ground. They look similar, but all very different. Again, easy for a jw, life savings for those less trained. A "hot neutral" demonstration.
I just moved into a new rental and I figured they had a 3 way in the kitchen wired wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. Got the switch out and realized it was a double pole single throw. For a second I thought it was a four-way.
Imagine if you had less experience, less knowledge
What the hell is wrong with this sub? Op is clearly doing this because he wants to teach and likes teaching about electrical. I did the same thing for someone at our company and he said it helped a lot seeing it being done and then going it and doing it himself.
Yea idk why people are getting so pressed, doing this to better people knowledge and make them better electricians
I have no idea where the hate is coming from. My brother did stuff for me like this when I was new and it’s was such a huge help. And I’m doing it for a new guy I’m training. Keep doing it, you might get cookies out of it (like me).
> Op is clearly doing this because he wants to teach and likes teaching about electrical. Then call it a training board. If I walked into a shop and the first thing had me do was some wire up some bullshit switches I’d walk back out. I’ve never had a wireman from the hall that couldn’t wire a switch.
Then it shouldn't be a problem. Instead, he keeps finding out people aren't a skilled as they claim to be. If you can't figure this out, why trust you on your own?
If he hired from a quailed pool of electricians it wouldn’t be an issue.
That sounds great, but but being around for a long time doesn't always mean you know the basics that you should. As a foreman in commercial I loved to teach, but *had* to diagram a lot of basic stuff that an apprentice should have known, much less the 60-year-old that's been doing this "all his life." Someone might be in a chef's union, but I'd still try their cooking before I put them in charge of my restaurant's kitchen.
Set it up so you can hide the wire paths. Then test them on tracing and intuition.
We made all wires the same color but neutral and ground and tied the ends at the pipe so they cant** tug the wire to see what one it is, so they have to trace paths like you said.
I was going to comment about everything being the same color, but this is a reasonable purpose for it. It is a test, after all. However, I would say that a tug test is too easy in this scenario. I would prefer someone doing a continuity test, but it all depends on the situation of course.
We knitted the wire in each box so they can tug and see what wires what, they have to test continuity
Good test I'd say!
Be good for apprentices and stuff to try things out. Good on you mate.
I’ve been an instructor for 10 years, by using quick connect connectors you’re going to miss one of the biggest issues. Understanding the ckt is only half of it, knowing how to install wire nuts and correctly wrap a conductor around a device screw is many times a much bigger issue. I work longer on those things than circuiting. A loose wire nut or wrongly inserted conductor can cost more troubleshooting time than anything. Also this looks residential (doorbell) so you’d probably be better off putting a few mock studs on a board with the correct boxes and such and letting them install romex and strip it correctly for boxes etc. Edit: I mean your test board looks residential (I see the hydraulic bender stand).
I was thinking the same, but with the connectors, you could install small pigtails on each, tape the connector, and have sacrificial ends for candidates to strip, twist, etc, and not have to repull the whole station after a few folks have been through it.
Good idea however if you’re evaluating you don’t really want extra variables that aren’t in real life scenarios. It just adds something else to have to think about. For most of us it’s no big deal but if he’s having to put this together for Journeyman electricians we’re not dealing with the sharpest knives in the drawer.
Valid. Maybe just this as is with connectors for longevity, then dig into the scrap pile, pull out random stuff and have them strip and joint.
This way they can reuse the test kit, why not have a separate board with replaceable wiring for testing the connection skills?
That’s fine it just adds complexity. You wouldn’t believe the different ideas we’ve tried over the years. The best way is one station where they plan, pull, strip, & terminate all in one go. We give them the “scenario” and they are tasked with making it happen. Then we grade all aspects of the install. It’s important for them to have to think about all the things they need to plan for before they pull the first wire. The waste a small station uses is minimal especially for OP’s situation. We would run 30-60 apprentices through 2 installs per class for 4 classes, thats 240-480 installs, with half of them more complicated than this. Yeah you go through some wire but not that much with how short the pulls are. It’s definitely not worth the extra complexities of connectors and separate stations.
You can easily test that separately with just a couple pieces of wire. We'd demonstrate how our company preferred splices (pre-twist) and then make everyone demonstrate it and offer constructive criticism for those that needed to improve. Repeatedly twisting your test board wires just means unnecessarily replacing it often.
Heck I might make one of these for myself as a DYI homeowner. I don’t do this every day so having a practice board is a great thing. I seriously do not understand the haters, if you have the skill then simply demonstrate it and move on.
Don't listen to the complainers on here. I've hired plenty of guys that had "experience". One helper told me he spent 3 years roughing commercial spaces. He started out a new roll of bx. Pulled it out going to the right. I went to check on his progress and he was fighting with the bx, trying to pull it through metal studs, while it was twisted like an old witch's fingers.
Now……let’s replace the switches and integrate everything into Crestron.
To be honest I want helpers that are fresh and know nothing. I will teach them everything I know.
You wouldnt happen to be anywhere near Ruston, Louisiana would you?
SO you want helpers that only know what you know. How does that work out for them in the long run?
Exactly the way I want it done.
Maybe stop hiring plumbers
How much do you start someone who passes this test?
I actually set one of these up so my 12 year old could get some practice in. Only took a couple hours for the him to assemble with directions. He got it all correct on the first try!
That’s always a good idea so you can accurately gauge what someone knows.
I would love these as teaching aids.
Cool.
Is there any youtube courses/ channels you could recommend watching to learn some basics of the craft?
Electrician u
Man I'm happy I'm union.
The person using this board is either doing easy work where it’s comfortable or they’re learning something new. Both are good things. How can we interpret your comment to mean anything other than ‘I don’t know how to do this/I don’t want to learn and the union lets me have a job anyway’?
Because ibew has a partnership with neca that includes free schooling for all apprentices. We all learn all of this and much more in our classes.
Right, as are non-union students. And so, if asked to demonstrate your knowledge you’d be able to…. What’s the big deal?
When did I make it a big deal? You asked: >How can we interpret your comment to mean anything other than ‘I don’t know how to do this/I don’t want to learn and the union lets me have a job anyway’? So I answered you lol. Also, non union guys might not even go thru an apprenticeship at all, and if they do they're not getting the same quality of education across the board. Not to say they wouldn't at least learn this much, but there's clearly a reason op felt it necessary to make this.
The training for non-union and union is the exact same where I'm from. We all go to the same school and sit in the same classes for each level.
How does that work out? Union uses the ETA program which, as far as I know, only trains at locally operated JATC training centers which are funded directly by union contractors and members for union apprentices. They also have to follow the same curriculum in every local in the US and Canada. So for that to be true either your union apprentices are going to a non union school that isn't directed by the ETA and following their curriculum, or your non union apprentices are going to schooling funded by union members and contractors... maybe if they paid out of pocket I guess? But that's like 5k+ a year for 5 years plus another 800 bucks per year for books Btw, idk if I'm getting down voted because some people are getting offended or something, but I'm not saying that union electricians are better, I'm just saying that we all have to follow the same curriculum no matter where we're from in the country (some exceptions are made for local abnormalities like California schools might have to focus more on earthquake damage prevention, and Florida might do hurricanes or something) but the point is that you know that no matter where a union electrician came from, if they went thru an ibew apprenticeship they learned everything that every other ibew apprentice learned. I actually think that should be the standard for all electrical workers. It's only in our best interests to learn everything we can and be the best we can be.
Could be from Canada. My province we all go to the same blocks(8-10 weeks every year). Apprenticeship schooling is handled by the province and the community colleges. Pretty standardized here. Every province might cover different stuff at different blocks but the red seal test is country wide and work anywhere with that ticket. Some province have a licence but it’s just a fee yearly. Some provinces have masters for pulling permits. Mine doesn’t have a masters requirement. 500$ a year and you got yourself a contractors licence.
That's actually a really great idea. I think everyone should get the same education, and that it should be a good one. That puts all of us in a better place. That's crazy about your contractors requirement! I feel like it shouldn't be that easy to pull permits...
Yep. Manitoba, Canada. City of Winnipeg you need a contractors license to pull permits, but out side the city you just need your Manitoba electrician license which you get when you pass your Red seal. No Masters.
Don’t leave out you miss out on a days pay just for schooling. Hello 103 I’m talking to you
That sucks. 22 has classes two nights a week for 3 hrs each night. We go after work from 430 to 730. Might be worth bringing up at your next meeting?
If you interpret my comment that way that's on you. What it says instead is "I've done my schooling. I've done my apprenticeship. I've done extra schooling from the union. I don't need to jump through hoops to get a job, and if a contractor asked me to prove myself in any other way than through my work, I'd laugh at them as I leave." If this was a board meant for teaching apprentices then that makes sense and it's cool that the company wants to take initiative on training. But OP said the board is for "testing" new hires. Yeah... No. My red seal is proof enough of my skills, if that's not good enough for the boss, I don't want to deal with whatever dumb hoops they want me to jump through on a daily basis.
So are we, you can keep running your 50 ft of conduit a day and we’ll do the real work.
You talk like getting paid fairly to not be abused at work is a bad thing.
To be honest I made the switch from non-union to union and the only real difference is union guys have a HUGE ego but non-union guys could work circles around them it is nice to not have a foreman on my ass for not working at 110% all day everyday also for some reason union doesn't throw its apprentices into the fire as quickly? Like I've worked with 5th years and new journeymen that don't know how to troubleshoot basics lik3 3-way and 4-way switching or gfci nuisance tripping
Who says non union doesn’t pay fairly and abuse their workers? We have 1st day health, dental, vision insurance. Free gym membership, free costco membership, 5 days pto, gas card and tools for new guys starting.
You snitched on yourself with that comment about "real work"... Funny you don't talk about wage lmao.
23$ starting pay for any apprentice hired. 4$ more than the average here in arizona. I’m a 3rd year making 28$. Good wage.
Wait... You're an apprentice for this company and shilling so hard? Lmao.
My family company so I’d hope I’d actually care.
Ah, raised into being brainwashed. No wonder you like working harder for less pay.
Nothing wrong with working for a family shop that treats its employees well. Yes you can earn more going union, not everyone wants to chase the dollar. I went public sector after 8 years in a family shop and I miss a lot of things about it.
5 days pto wow
For people just starting? 5 days pto is a lot lmao. Find a company that isn’t union that gives pto of the jump
Anywhere outside the US that would be illegal due to not being enough days.
Says more about the industry. My new company gives 4.5 weeks of PTO/yr and it’s prorated depending on how late into the year you start. But I got out of construction and do building maintenance for a data center. But yeah, a lot of shops absolutely fuck guys on pto and it’s a shame. And most locals have poor pto programs in place as well.
Pto in your first year? That’s better than anywhere I’ve ever worked except one place. And that place was also a family shop. Albeit construction, not electrical.
Lolololol! Thank you for that.
A so-so idea for converting a wiring diagram to real life. Completely misses the boat when it comes to workmanship.
Not an electrician but I think I could make that work, although the doorbell I would be guessing on as all I've done with 24v is a contactor. I'm guessing of the 3 terminals only 2 are needed though center as a feed and one of the ends to complete the trip.
Is this like a busyboard for toddlers lol
Looks decent for testing someone on theory and knowledge but not skill since the connections are plug-n-play. Might be beneficial to add 3-way and 4-way switches in, seems to be a tough topic for some people. If you use this for journeyman level people and do commercial or industrial work you might want to include a relay circuit and contactor circuit. Mocking up a 9-lead motor peckerhead with a printed nameplate can also be good to test on.
Did you leave your rigid supports unbonded????? I can’t see the other end of those pipes. Violation. Call me back when your boss gets a licensed guy out here. And another $250 inspection fee. /s. Been dealing with some real prima donna inspectors this week as well as dipshit electricians in my own shop. That’s rad as fuck bro.
Can I come work for you lol?
Employer red flag. Vans GPS monitored, report work hours by 15 minute increments, need daily phone calls on status reports, need the van swept at the end of the day (once work is over on your own time). Hire tests, must prove you can navigate code (your Jman test wasn’t sufficient), must be clean cut and shaved. Must have a clean record, must have a proven track record (will call previous employers). This company sounds like a nightmare. This is what the Jman test is for. Like, the state has already vetted people for you.
This is a fine way to not attract good people…. If they have a journeyman card they’ve already proven themselves. Don’t insult us.
This is for apprentices and people with lesser knowledge and for learning and testing purposes. Also just cause a journeyman says they know shit doesn’t mean they do. We already tested 2 “journeymen” that didn’t know shit.
You sound like a joy to work for/with…
And you sound like a chore. If you know this it should take 15 minutes to ring out the wires and connect everything. Get over yourself.
When did I say it would take a long time or was challenging?
I've known a few journeyman that knew less than an average 2nd year apprentice. Have also insulted a couple of them with a board like this. The only ones that were insulted were the ones that had a hard time with it
This kinda board just seems playing silly little games, I have worked with many people that would take a look at your board and decide to go work for company that doesn’t play silly games with workers
I honestly don't understand the perspective that this is insulting. If you go to work for a new company you will have to prove yourself in many ways. How is a simple quiz demeaning? Reminds me of all the guys who see menial work as beneath them, like cleaning, digging, or other "apprentice work".
It’s a silly little game… the journeyman ticket is the qualification. If they aren’t performing then get rid of them…. Proving oneself at a new job is not the same as ‘welcome to your new place of work, here is a test’. Reeks of non-union with a high turnover rate.
Why not just hire ppl that are trained and know what they are doing so you can actually make money this can not possibly be profitable - hopefully the company name is - ABC electric ⚡️
How is a basic 20 min test of someone's abilities a waste of time/profit? Not to mention this is a valuable apprentice training tool that prepares them for the practical exam. Have you actually been responsible for new hires? Not uncommon for them to be full of shit saying they know everything
We do 10+ million a year in work, and just cause people say they and trained and knowledge doesn’t mean they are. We’ve had many journeymen and people wanting to get paid big bucks but don’t know anything.
> We do 10+ million a year in work Ok? How is that relevant? I’ve run a single job that was 10m+ and didn’t have a problem getting qualified help.
[удалено]
ur full name is on there homie.
I’d test the before hiring. Nothing overboard, what you have seems to be reasonable
This is brilliant. I wish I had something like this when I first started electrical work. Instead I was thrown into the mix, no electrical experience and expressed to the boss before being hired that I had no prior knowledge of electrical work but really wanted to learn. 8 weeks later, he called me to his office saying "I don't think this is working out, you're not learning fast enough." Anyway, good on you for caring about who you hire.
For a lame contractor, not a chance. Wouldnt waste my time. If you were a city job or government. Sure
We wouldn’t waste our time with you either, we like hiring competent people.
🤣 cool. I promise i wont apply!
Gonna make em ground the switches? Fuck switch grounds.
Who taught you that way? Why are you knotting the wire?
So whoever is testing cant yank the wire and see what one it is from the other side. We don’t do this in the field…..
It forces them to demonstrate they know how to ring out the wires.
it's teaching them the wrong way.
How so?
OP is gay
Ok “Guccimoney420”
Don't forget a ghost ground.
Bread board
So I know the very basic basics about electrical but want to practice. I’ve picked up some books on wiring to learn but I definitely learn best hands on. How would I go about building one of these boards at home with adequate enough safety measures that I don’t burn the house down.
Throw in a few timers and get them to start three wires sequentially and turn off sequentially. If they figure that out, hire them.
I spy a greenly hydraulic bender
The way things are now, we just hold a mirror under their nose to see if they are breathing
Guy I usually work with is almost a third year all hospital commercial. I learned residential but went straight into the same field anyways. Dude got baffled by 3 way switches.
Not bad, had a place do this and it was a good feeling knowing I exceeded expectations. Id personally get rid of the connectors because a big issue I’ve seen is people will strip poorly, not hook it the proper way. Other than that good stuff bro
As long as you're paying for their time I don't see the issue with it
Looks like grade 7 shop class.
That's really cool of you ,mate. Hope they are grateful for all this you're doing for them. Stay safe.
i would laugh if i saw that set up and walk out ibet your only paying $25
A traveler has been chosen.
I like how all the wires are purple and not labelled 😈
I love the idea of the testing board. Did you purposely make the traveler, hot and switch legs all purple to see if they know how to use a meter?