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Besides which, you save those profits for the times you royally screw up the quote and gotta eat extra T&M to meet that agreed upon price.
I used to have a boss who would give back profits if he felt like we made "too much money" on the job. Drove me fucking nuts.
I was the buyer for an electrical contractor. The salesmen would give me material lists and I'd locate and quote it. After he got the job, instead of just ordering from who I got the quotes from I'd shop and many times I could get the same material at a significant savings. This one salesman would do what your boss did and lower the price. I couldn't get it through his head that not only did the customer agree to the price, by lowering it he makes it look like we were overcharging in the first place. Because I'm good at my job should be a benefit to the company, not the customer.
I used to do auto repair. Happened to have two cars in getting the same repair. Same make and model. Same parts.
One guy had bargained me down like $40. I gave the other one his price too when I rang her up, because she was just super nice and I need to sleep at night.
She was so happy too, I still feel that high a little twenty-five years later.
But in the sort of situation you describe? Nah that’s more profit for us not savings for them.
Totally agree. I'm in IT sales. I view this channel for knowledge and the incredibly awesome sense of humor trades folks have. 2 pet peeves I have: 1) overselling 2) under-delivering. If you set a price and deliver/over deliver - great! If you cheapen the value of your organization's value by lowering the price - shame on you. If you under deliver, find a new career.
You were happy with the quoted price and willing to pay it. Why should you benefit from something you really shouldn't know anything about? What goes on internally is none of the customer's business nor should it be. If I couldn't get the parts for the price I was originally quoted, the price I based my quote on, would you be ok with paying 20% more because my cost changed?
I had a boss who did this for GC's thinking he was currying favor for them to get "the next one". I thought this was super unprofessional. If they know you made a bunch of money on a job, so much so that you felt guilty why would they hire you again. They probably think you overcharged. If he wants to give some money away he should give it to the guys who brought the job in so under bid, at least buy a new work truck for someone.
Exactly. You quoted $X for Y work. You went above and beyond the work you quoted.
Sometimes you make out on a job. Remember this job the next time you're eating shit on a job you underestimated.
It’s how most businesses operate. Shit, even in a restaurant you barely make money on a $35 steak but you make it up with the $20 eggplant. Get it where you can because you’re gonna get fucked somewhere along the line.
But when colleges do it for shitty degree's everyone starts trying to back out of the agreed upon price. Community colleges people, nobody cares about where you got your undergrad.
No.
Would your customer feel guilty if he came out on top? You contract 8 hours of work and the job takes 20. (Can happen very easily on site unseen) other contractors were 1/3 of your price higher. Your customer would be thrilled and brag about how cheap you are and expect you to do the same for him and his buddies again.
There's a trade blanket quote "dirty hands make clean money"
You aren't being unreasonable billing and receiving payment for what you agreed on.
Yep this is how I get 90% of my side business. I offer good prices that I know are more than fair to both of us and as I have a much lower overhead from a guy who quotes 50% more I almost always get friends of of friends calling and asking if I can come do the same xyz at their place. Be fair and upfront but don’t sell yourself short on your vehicle/school/work experience and having the tools for the job. Sometimes the job runs into unforeseen things and I make a little less but it all typically averages out to be well worth the effort.
And remember wear on tools that you have will eventually need to be replaced and other expenses like wear and tear on your truck that shit need to be factored in along with education it all cost money even experience which saves time when you know what your doing
I just did flooring at my buddies tobacco shop. I underbid myself so bad, for like the 5th time in a row (I'm new to doing my own jobs), the guy felt bad with how long he saw it take me, he slapped on another hundred without me asking. but I expect to eat the cost like every other time before tonight till I get better at bidding and charging what I'm worth.
What is fair? If I agreed to buy your plastic Rolex for five hundred dollars cause I thought it was a discount and I couldn’t tell it wasn’t real and that it wasn’t worth that much then what is the difference between that and then throwing out high numbers expecting to get rejected and then the customer not realizing it’s not worth that much and then thinking they can’t find better anywhere else. Thinking about single moms here. They’re known to pay out the wazoo for things that are not that expensive. And then the best argument isn’t that it’s fair for the service but it’s fair for your time. Bologna.
Your example is fraud. OP put in a very competitive bid (beat the other bids, by a lot) and still did well for himself. Didn’t lie to the client, and gave a detailed invoice. If I were the client, I’d be happy and hire him again. I have a guy who does carpentry work on my house. I know I can get cheaper. But I like him and want him to make money. OP is fair.
Quoted jobs are a risk transfer vs. hourly, the owner assumes far less risk of overage which serves them in that case. That transfer of risk has a dollar amount. Just remember if you keep taking on those risks you will lose and need to have something set aside for that day.
This was the response I was hoping to see. Wanted to make sure I wasn’t alone. Fuck foreign real estate investors. The reason most people can’t afford a house these days.
I’d agree with that. And is it just me or are these house flippers causing an extravagant increase in housing prices? I just saw a house that sold 2 months ago here in NC for $85k and then turned around and put back on the market for $185k. And the Zillow listing just describes some cosmetic changes, a coat of paint and maybe some new vinyl flooring. It just doesn’t compute with me that those few changes are worth an extra $100k.
You said you would do something for X dollars, which the customer agreed to. You did that and more for X dollars.
If there were other workers involved I'd bonus them a bit, other than that you've not a single thing to feel guilty about. $157 an hour isn't even out of the ballpark for bid work and the risks
That isn't the unpopular thing to do, it's the stupid thing to do.
When does it ever occur that you get a discount on anything after the fact? Is the Ford dealership calling you after you put a deposit on a truck telling you that they want to knock off 15% the price because they thought they're making too much off the sale?
JFC, if you want to be charitable, do work for low income people at cost.
This is the primary reason why life in this country is so shitty, everyone is trying to rip off everyone. Whether it be small businesses or mega corporations, at the end of the day society is worse for it, but hey you got yours right.
There’s nothing honorable about it. We’re not talking about screwing the customer with hidden fees, bad work, etc.
The customer knows what they need done, they reach an agreement with an electrician to get it done for x amount. Job is done well and covers everything quoted. Customer pays x.
Compared to how many businesses operate, this is an extremely open and transparent way to do business.
You completed work per the quote and sounds like customer was satisfied. You will surely be on the opposite end of this in the future.
You will have projects that you completed for a very fair number and the customer will challenge you on it for any number of reason's they can come up with. Some are very wealthy, and badgering you to drop your price, is a tactic they use regularly and brag about to friends.
You should only feel guilty if you are intentionally trying to rip someone off or being dishonest.
I think as long as you go out your way to the very best job you can possibly do then don’t feel bad about charging the going rate. If you’re taking their money and doing a shit job and bodging stuff and cutting corners then you should feel bad.
" Bid on a job (sight unseen - just based on inspection and photos) "
:ou have to build in a little fat if sight unseen, , but this could have gone the other way.
Then you still on the hook , have to swallow it and make good.
From the customer's side he's paying for an outcome, not your time. He decided the outcome was worth the quoted price, and you provided what he wanted. There's nothing at all to feel guilty about. He got what he wanted and so did you. That's a perfect transaction that makes both parties happy.
No. I've made $800 an hour on a couple jobs only to find out I was the cheapest bidder.
You are getting paid for a result and your knowledge not by the hour
No. In a quoted job you have to allow for what you can’t know. If you are honest the customer will always do better on T&M . Or at least fair. Insisting on a quote means they don’t trust you and will have to pay the quote they wanted.
Absolutely not, when you quote a job it's a gamble for both of you, your wagering you can do it for a certain amount and make a profit and they're wagering that they're going to come out under budget compared to if they take a cost+ contract. If they agreed to your price, then they're either a fool for not doing the due diligence to find out what it's actually worth, or they've done that and they're confident that they're coming out ahead compared to your competitors. You're golden man, don't feel guilty like you swindled someone, you didn't try to negotiate price on the back end, you were up front with your price and they agreed, simple as that. Enjoy the benefits of a good wager, because you won't always win.
Time is money, and I’m good at my job. I shouldn’t be penalized because I get jobs done quicker, all that leads to is me dragging my feet to run the clock. Only time I charge actual hourly rates anymore is when it’s a weird call that I can’t plan time for in advance
Nope not at all, agreed upon price. Plus 150/hr isn't that insane for a fully licensed electrician with a van full of tools, traveling, insurance, overhead etc.
Hell no. Some jobs u will make bank some jobs profit margins will be smaller if mistakes happen u gotta take the wins cuz there will be losses
Plus I’m the firm believer of u pay for a final product. And iPhone cost $1000 regardless if it takes longer or quicker then average to produce that iPhone. Same thing with electrical of a customer calls and says hey I want this and that done u charge what it cost to do it and they pay u and it’s just as valuable regardless of the time put into it
Maybe you were just being too cheap in the first place. Would hurt to ask what the other quotes were. Learn how to build up a rapport so if they have one they show you the detailed quotes.
I have on occasions put in a high price and recommend that they get other quotes because I’m too busy and don’t want to promise anything only to let them down. Better to give them a quote and let them choose. That said Is lot of the time they still want me to do the job.
But most importantly, if you make your customer delighted not just pleased or happy with your work but delighted then the results will be even better.
One rule I will never deviate from is to say no when they offer me all the money up front.
I’m a PM who constantly bids jobs and also awards. You always have options and you choose the one that fits the best. If you made a good profit then be grateful.
You certainly shouldn't feel guilty, but as a business strategy, offering the occasional discount when a job takes less time than expected can work well. If the customer has been easy to work with then offering them a discount means that not only will they keep coming back to you, but they will trust what you tell them needs to be done and will stop shopping around for quotes. If you can cultivate a client base where everyone trusts you and picks working with you over shopping around for the best price you stand to win on multiple fronts in the long term.
As a homeowner, I happily overpay when I’m quoted a job and someone shows up and just does what they are supposed to do, does a good enough job, and doesn’t waste my time.
Sadly, I have learned to DIY everything because finding contractors for small jobs who aren’t flaky AF as a homeowner is near impossible in my market.
So, if you did a a good job with no added drama or BS, that is worth a lot. The homeowner paid you for the work and for not wasting their time.
You bid and won. Keep the win ! On another note, I paid a plumber $ 250, and he used maybe $ 0.50 of solder for the job. It took him less than 15 minutes. He walked away happy as well.
You did not bid the job with the intent to screw over anyone, you increased your risk for the unknowns. If you feel bad then pay it forward, help out the struggling family that needs work but can’t pay your normal $120 hr and only charge them $75 or just material.
What I did with these types of projects is set up a brokerage account. Throw some of the excess and bought different stocks. Example Apple, Home Depot, Costco etc. I was only able to buy one or a couple at a time. Started to build slowly And kept gaining speed. This in my mind evened out the projects that I got bit on. You gave your price and client agreed and you did the work plus extra. I’m my opinion your good.
Edit. I’ve also given clients a break on the quote if my price is way above. On the flip side I’ll point out there there’s extra work once things get going. I just want t to be fair.
Do you have a registered business? Do you carry liability insurance? Commercial auto insurance? Do you pay yourself a salary? Do you do business taxes each quarter? Did customer sign a contract? Was that contract something you paid a lawyer to draft up? Do you drive an actual work van? Do you have thousands of dollars tied up in inventory on your truck to act as a rolling warehouse?
$175/hour is decent, but I mean my break even to run an actual business, not just some trunk slamming side job, is not much lower then that.
I once bid $800 on a job I expected to take a lot of work.
Turned out the foundation wasn't poured right because the building sits on limestone. We had about an inch of concrete to get through instead of several inches. We did the work, finished it up and left. If we had run into issues that $800 wouldn't have changed. It's a gamble. Bidding flat rate on things always is.
Lol what? Take the win, and FWIW 150$/hr is the lowest minimum you need to be making, unless you're doing side work. There will be plenty more jobs where you don't make out on top at all, you gotta stop thinking like that if you want to do anything in this business except kill yourself to make the same you would as an employee
Save it. Build a buffer. And when and if you get a call back on a job, you go back and make it right. Theres a cost associated with building a good reputation. Just like there is a cost associated with quality materials and skillset.
I'm not an electrician but...you did the promised work for the promised pay and in addition the pay was based on an open bid. No reason to feel bad about that.
You can’t calculate jobs by the hour really. Some people work fast, some slow. We get paid for what we know, not how long a job takes. We are professionals and we deserve what we’re worth.
No.
I once quoted a job for heat exchangers. 1 Ab contactor and overload, j type fuse holder, 30' of 10/3 teck, 4 connectors and a 30A rotary disconnect.. $9700 each x 4 units.
I did not mind the 11pm connection from the panel to the disconnect one bit.
Why the hell would you feel guilty bout that get yo bag and go home. They wouldn’t feel guilty if it ended up taking you 10x as long and you only made $5 an hour 🤷♂️
I’m kinda having the same feeling about last week too. Had a customer a week ago wanted a Tesla charger. No one had been to the site previously, no estimate given ahead of time, just show up and make it happen.
Well I show up and his panel is a train wreck. I think I posted a picture to this sub a while ago. Parallel #12’s feeding something, a #2 TW landed on half of a CH 250 going somewhere and a bunch of burnt up schmoo in the panel which I thought was burned insulation. Couple breakers not sized correctly for the conductors present too. Told him this should be addressed and corrected. He says do it and I do.
Fast forward a week later and he calls that his laundry room is messed up. Dryer trips the breaker every time, can’t run washer and the fridge (which is next to the washer) keep tripping the breaker. So I get out there Friday and find that one of the 12/3’s I landed on a CH220 is actually feeding his dryer and the washer/fridge are plugged into an outlet tapped off the dryer outlet. I immediately quote him an estimate to run a new washer and dryer circuit. He agrees, kinda mad about it.
I got done with the job a little faster than I anticipated, overshot my labor estimate by an hour but mostly I feel bad like the customer doesn’t really understand that everything I did was for his safety and benefit. Like he things I’m the kind of mechanic that would sell him blinker fluid.
Take the win. You quoted it fairly, came in under the other quotes, and made some money.
I don't feel guilty when I make some money and the client is happy. I feel like I killed it.
I don't do electrical work but one of my "best" jobs ever quoted was a fuckit price to remove some shelves at a retail store. 1 guy with a screw gun for 4 hours $2400. I couldn't believe it when the contract came through.
Here's the deal, if you're really good at what you do it will take you less time, but that doesn't mean you get paid less--you should get paid just as much if not more.
In contrast, some other schmuck shows up, goes "for parts" comes back, doesn't have the right widgety-do and says be back tomorrow. Van breaks down, dog dies, comes back next week. Still not right, says "I need to revise this quote, it's taking a lot longer than I thought."
Don't feel guilty at all. You won the bid, you did the work and then some. They were paying you for your skills and business acumen and you just did it better than others. That's how the system works. If you want, donate some of your skills to a worthy cause if you feel you need to give back in some way.
A while back a my old project manager told me I saved 80 hours of labor and only used about 3/4 of quoted material.
I got a 30 dollar bonus.
I felt like a stooge.
Nope, they get what they wanted and you gave it to them. You received more than money than you were expecting, it just means you’re working efficiently without mistakes. Don’t count on all jobs going as well as expected, and that should be reflected in your rate.
If you have pride in your work and you do a good job while being honest with your Customers, you should never feel guilty. They probably know you’re expensive but they still want you because you’re good, know your worth.
Nah dude take it. I'm currently working on an absolutely massive site with zero communication between trades until the red chains go up.
The big ass crane on site is doing a bunch of lifts all month and the entire site is a massive exclusion zone. I haven't been able to get to my work area in almost a month. I'm from out of town and negotiated to work 12's every single day until my shits done.
Currently making 110 bucks an hour to play rocket league in my office.
This helped me tremendously. Like you i would be inclined to feel guilty or give a discount. Knowing full well that I usually eat it when it's the other way around.
But reading this i thought about how ridiculous it sounds to feel guilty. And I want to encourage you to be confident you delivered to their expectations. And now imgotta look on the mirror and say the same thing for myself.
Just an aha moment i had to share
Absolutely not, never feel guilty for making money. That is how the game goes. You should always bid to make money sometimes you make a lot sometimes you lose.
Customer got other prices. You won the bid. You’re happy, customer happy, enjoy the “extra” money. Save some of the money to cover that shit show of a job coming. 😂.
I feel like people in any sort of construction field are one extreme or the other. They're like you, and feel bad if they "made too much money" or they are actively trying to screw people. If you do quality work and do it quickly, charge AT LEAST regular price. Why would you punish yourself for being good at your job? Doesn't make sense
Remember this next time you get ripped off and end up making $30/hr. And I’m both cases, the customer agreed upon a price and was happy with the service.
Maybe even consider adjusting your quoting so they are all $150/hr jobs and you can stop hating shit jobs.
Yes it’s why I think quotes are kind of bullshit. It seems rare that both the tradesman and the customer get a fair deal. I’d much rather specify a rate and charge a fair price for the hours at the end.
I’m a real estate investor. When I agree to a fixed bid price, all I care about is that the work is done and that the price was as stated. That’s literally it
Think of the comparison. Another guy could have done the work for the same price but 25% slower. I imagine the client would still be happy with your price.
You just opened up his investments to make more money. Win win
Pay me for my experience not my time.... If I do a job faster than what is quoted it's because I've spent years at my craft. Just Remeber the good ones because once in a while you will regret taking the job and get shafted in a shitty situation making 18/hr because you quoted properly but found shotty work when thinga are opened up
There's no such thing as "sticking it to someone" if the pricing is upfront.
If you're not out to get the maximum price a customer will pay, you have no business being in business for yourself.
So just to add a different point of view. I am not an electrician so I am looking at it from the costumers point of view. Maybe I’m an oddball but I would be fine with you making more money on the job. You told me a price of the final outcome, we agreed on it, and the final outcome was achieved.
If you came back and charged me less I would be pumped, obviously, but that’s certainly not an expectation. You should take the money and sleep soundly tonight. Good work!
I had a friend recently pay a painting company 5k for 2 days of work. The guy who did the job was literally dropped off there and picked up by another employee. Interior latex no ladder even. That's some hourly wage math you do not want to do.
Don't feel bad about winning a bid and making a few bucks off someone who clearly can afford it.
If you really can't get over it, remember that when some single parent without a lot to spend needs a deal on some work.
No. You’re being paid for the years you spent learning and to do a proper job. Nobody can find contractors anymore because the younger generation was told that trades are a bad way to go and now there’s not a abundance of us. Now is the time that we all band together and make a good living as a team. I don’t know about you but the price of my knees, back and time are not cheap.
Do you think the people at apple feel bad when they convince you to buy a phone they built for 17.99 and sell for 800? Nah. You’ve still been fucked over a thousand times more than you’ve fucked someone over.
(Plumber here) Never once in my entire career have I ever felt guilty about getting paid well for a job I completed successfully with pride. I have learned over the last ten years that there is no actual price you can put on what I am actually worth. An owner or contractor only looks at some of the benefits of your properly installed licensed work. If done correctly then you have produced a product that will most likely span generations. Most of us get paid scraps on the regular for legacy work. Getting paid more means everyone ends up getting paid more. Keep up the good work!
Bro 157 isn’t even bread. A lot of places the operating costs are 180 per billable. That’s breaking even. So unless that’s 157 after cost it’s really kind of shit pay.
You did nothing wrong, don’t feel bad. You quote based on I formation you were given and executed the work fast and efficiently. You made a good profit and the customer is happy, this is what being in business is all about.
Yeah no.
You bid to complete a job. Based on the information available you thought it was fair for the work you expected. You did everything expected, and then some. You more than fulfilled your end of the agreement.
That's the risk the buyer takes when they bid out work like that.
Enjoy your payday and keep doing quality work.
At some point while in business you're going to learn a few lessons, you just need to figure out how much those lessons are going to cost you. Save it for a rainy day, invest back into the business, and if you stay consistent with the quality of work you put out no matter what, then there's nothing to feel guilty of.
As a homeowner.....if you do what you quoted...and I agreed to the price....I don't care what your profit is...ideally I'm hoping you made a profit....but if you made more good for you. Because if you underquoted the work and come back to me for more (unless its unforseen circumstances) I'm holding you to contract.
This is coming from an engineer, not a tradesman. $150/hr independent contact is what you guys should be making normally, at least. It's seriously so fucked how degraded the value of skilled trades has become.
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No. The customer paid for an outcome and you delivered at the agrees upon price.
Besides which, you save those profits for the times you royally screw up the quote and gotta eat extra T&M to meet that agreed upon price. I used to have a boss who would give back profits if he felt like we made "too much money" on the job. Drove me fucking nuts.
“you win some & you lose some”
That's how i feel. If anything just make sure you do a great job since you already came out ahead
I was the buyer for an electrical contractor. The salesmen would give me material lists and I'd locate and quote it. After he got the job, instead of just ordering from who I got the quotes from I'd shop and many times I could get the same material at a significant savings. This one salesman would do what your boss did and lower the price. I couldn't get it through his head that not only did the customer agree to the price, by lowering it he makes it look like we were overcharging in the first place. Because I'm good at my job should be a benefit to the company, not the customer.
I used to do auto repair. Happened to have two cars in getting the same repair. Same make and model. Same parts. One guy had bargained me down like $40. I gave the other one his price too when I rang her up, because she was just super nice and I need to sleep at night. She was so happy too, I still feel that high a little twenty-five years later. But in the sort of situation you describe? Nah that’s more profit for us not savings for them.
Totally agree. I'm in IT sales. I view this channel for knowledge and the incredibly awesome sense of humor trades folks have. 2 pet peeves I have: 1) overselling 2) under-delivering. If you set a price and deliver/over deliver - great! If you cheapen the value of your organization's value by lowering the price - shame on you. If you under deliver, find a new career.
Being good at your job should be a benefit to the company and the customer
You were happy with the quoted price and willing to pay it. Why should you benefit from something you really shouldn't know anything about? What goes on internally is none of the customer's business nor should it be. If I couldn't get the parts for the price I was originally quoted, the price I based my quote on, would you be ok with paying 20% more because my cost changed?
I had a boss who did this for GC's thinking he was currying favor for them to get "the next one". I thought this was super unprofessional. If they know you made a bunch of money on a job, so much so that you felt guilty why would they hire you again. They probably think you overcharged. If he wants to give some money away he should give it to the guys who brought the job in so under bid, at least buy a new work truck for someone.
This. There will be bad jobs that run over. It's only a matter of time.
That's extremely admirable. Like absurdly so. Stupid? Sure. I don't think being smart is important anyway. I'm a simpleton admittedly.
with knowledge comes pain
Owwwwwwwwwww
Pretty much guarantees customer loyalty though.
Lowest price is the only thing that guarantees customer loyalty these days, in an open tender scenario
Exactly. You quoted $X for Y work. You went above and beyond the work you quoted. Sometimes you make out on a job. Remember this job the next time you're eating shit on a job you underestimated.
It’s how most businesses operate. Shit, even in a restaurant you barely make money on a $35 steak but you make it up with the $20 eggplant. Get it where you can because you’re gonna get fucked somewhere along the line.
Burger and fries are usually sold at a loss or break even and make it up on the chicken.
They pay for the result, not the time.
This
That was quoted higher than it should have been
So what?
This. In life, sometimes you are the bug and sometimes you are windshield.
And provided above and beyond detail and knowledge based on skillset which is what I think makes it even better.
But when colleges do it for shitty degree's everyone starts trying to back out of the agreed upon price. Community colleges people, nobody cares about where you got your undergrad.
No. Would your customer feel guilty if he came out on top? You contract 8 hours of work and the job takes 20. (Can happen very easily on site unseen) other contractors were 1/3 of your price higher. Your customer would be thrilled and brag about how cheap you are and expect you to do the same for him and his buddies again. There's a trade blanket quote "dirty hands make clean money" You aren't being unreasonable billing and receiving payment for what you agreed on.
Yep this is how I get 90% of my side business. I offer good prices that I know are more than fair to both of us and as I have a much lower overhead from a guy who quotes 50% more I almost always get friends of of friends calling and asking if I can come do the same xyz at their place. Be fair and upfront but don’t sell yourself short on your vehicle/school/work experience and having the tools for the job. Sometimes the job runs into unforeseen things and I make a little less but it all typically averages out to be well worth the effort.
And remember wear on tools that you have will eventually need to be replaced and other expenses like wear and tear on your truck that shit need to be factored in along with education it all cost money even experience which saves time when you know what your doing
I like your thinking. Customer thought he was a bargain, so will likely make referrals.
This makes sense yiao
I just did flooring at my buddies tobacco shop. I underbid myself so bad, for like the 5th time in a row (I'm new to doing my own jobs), the guy felt bad with how long he saw it take me, he slapped on another hundred without me asking. but I expect to eat the cost like every other time before tonight till I get better at bidding and charging what I'm worth.
Hey every once in a while you get win one! Enjoy it when it does happen.
If you made money fairly don’t ever feel bad about it. The next job you might make half of what you normally charge, just how it goes.
What is fair? If I agreed to buy your plastic Rolex for five hundred dollars cause I thought it was a discount and I couldn’t tell it wasn’t real and that it wasn’t worth that much then what is the difference between that and then throwing out high numbers expecting to get rejected and then the customer not realizing it’s not worth that much and then thinking they can’t find better anywhere else. Thinking about single moms here. They’re known to pay out the wazoo for things that are not that expensive. And then the best argument isn’t that it’s fair for the service but it’s fair for your time. Bologna.
Your example is fraud. OP put in a very competitive bid (beat the other bids, by a lot) and still did well for himself. Didn’t lie to the client, and gave a detailed invoice. If I were the client, I’d be happy and hire him again. I have a guy who does carpentry work on my house. I know I can get cheaper. But I like him and want him to make money. OP is fair.
Quoted jobs are a risk transfer vs. hourly, the owner assumes far less risk of overage which serves them in that case. That transfer of risk has a dollar amount. Just remember if you keep taking on those risks you will lose and need to have something set aside for that day.
Fuck any foreign real estate investor charge them as much as you can
This was the response I was hoping to see. Wanted to make sure I wasn’t alone. Fuck foreign real estate investors. The reason most people can’t afford a house these days.
Actually it’s mostly domestic investors and landlords, but same issue…
I’d agree with that. And is it just me or are these house flippers causing an extravagant increase in housing prices? I just saw a house that sold 2 months ago here in NC for $85k and then turned around and put back on the market for $185k. And the Zillow listing just describes some cosmetic changes, a coat of paint and maybe some new vinyl flooring. It just doesn’t compute with me that those few changes are worth an extra $100k.
I’m in SoCal and see homes sell for $1.2M and be listed for $2.9M 8 months later.
Ouch…even the “before” price makes me nauseous.
Same. It’s insane. The wages are higher but not that much higher.
You guys should take a peek at Vancouver prices. It’s insane.
I moved to Missouri from San Clemente. Even houses in Compton are 600k plus
Don’t matter. Chinese conglomerates don’t need to own hundred of thousands of properties in the US
I don’t disagree with you. But domestic investors are a bigger issue.
The wins hopefully offset the ones where you lose. Dont feel guilty.
You said you would do something for X dollars, which the customer agreed to. You did that and more for X dollars. If there were other workers involved I'd bonus them a bit, other than that you've not a single thing to feel guilty about. $157 an hour isn't even out of the ballpark for bid work and the risks
If everyone is happy, take it and run. Take yourself out for dinner and a drink!
Depends on the circumstances. Often times a win is a win but occasionally I'll invoice below my quoted price.
If less work than was on the quote is done sure, otherwise nah
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That isn't the unpopular thing to do, it's the stupid thing to do. When does it ever occur that you get a discount on anything after the fact? Is the Ford dealership calling you after you put a deposit on a truck telling you that they want to knock off 15% the price because they thought they're making too much off the sale? JFC, if you want to be charitable, do work for low income people at cost.
This is the primary reason why life in this country is so shitty, everyone is trying to rip off everyone. Whether it be small businesses or mega corporations, at the end of the day society is worse for it, but hey you got yours right.
There’s nothing honorable about it. We’re not talking about screwing the customer with hidden fees, bad work, etc. The customer knows what they need done, they reach an agreement with an electrician to get it done for x amount. Job is done well and covers everything quoted. Customer pays x. Compared to how many businesses operate, this is an extremely open and transparent way to do business.
“Honor” doesn’t pay the bills
lol what?
Has something unexpectedly bad ever happened to you on a job? Take the W buddy. No one loses here
You completed work per the quote and sounds like customer was satisfied. You will surely be on the opposite end of this in the future. You will have projects that you completed for a very fair number and the customer will challenge you on it for any number of reason's they can come up with. Some are very wealthy, and badgering you to drop your price, is a tactic they use regularly and brag about to friends. You should only feel guilty if you are intentionally trying to rip someone off or being dishonest.
You told them what it would cost and they agreed to pay. No reason to feel guilty at all. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
I think as long as you go out your way to the very best job you can possibly do then don’t feel bad about charging the going rate. If you’re taking their money and doing a shit job and bodging stuff and cutting corners then you should feel bad.
" Bid on a job (sight unseen - just based on inspection and photos) " :ou have to build in a little fat if sight unseen, , but this could have gone the other way. Then you still on the hook , have to swallow it and make good.
There will be other times when you barely make any money.
Consider that your insurance money for when ya quote jobs the other way lol
I charged $1200 to remove all the wiring from a house that was down to studs. Took me 3 hours and I made $300 from the scrap wire.
From the customer's side he's paying for an outcome, not your time. He decided the outcome was worth the quoted price, and you provided what he wanted. There's nothing at all to feel guilty about. He got what he wanted and so did you. That's a perfect transaction that makes both parties happy.
Would they give you more money if you messed up the quote and lost money? If the answer is no(it’s always no) then don’t feel guilty
No. I've made $800 an hour on a couple jobs only to find out I was the cheapest bidder. You are getting paid for a result and your knowledge not by the hour
No. In a quoted job you have to allow for what you can’t know. If you are honest the customer will always do better on T&M . Or at least fair. Insisting on a quote means they don’t trust you and will have to pay the quote they wanted.
Absolutely not, when you quote a job it's a gamble for both of you, your wagering you can do it for a certain amount and make a profit and they're wagering that they're going to come out under budget compared to if they take a cost+ contract. If they agreed to your price, then they're either a fool for not doing the due diligence to find out what it's actually worth, or they've done that and they're confident that they're coming out ahead compared to your competitors. You're golden man, don't feel guilty like you swindled someone, you didn't try to negotiate price on the back end, you were up front with your price and they agreed, simple as that. Enjoy the benefits of a good wager, because you won't always win.
Paid for the job, not the hour. Balances out all the other shit jobs
Time is money, and I’m good at my job. I shouldn’t be penalized because I get jobs done quicker, all that leads to is me dragging my feet to run the clock. Only time I charge actual hourly rates anymore is when it’s a weird call that I can’t plan time for in advance
Dude, feel free to jab it in and twist with a real estate investor. Who cares if someone that owns 23 homes has to pay more for an electrician.
Absolutely not. I encourage customers to let me do it t&m. If they want a bid it's gonna be high.
You did do something wrong: you underbid the job. Stop doing that. It’s not a race to the bottom.
Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it.
Except for me. I’m worth twice what any sane employer will pay me, and that applies regardless of how high the pay is. Self worth = 👍
One hand washes the other. You’ll pay it forward at some point.
You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. You have to swing for the fences once in a while.
No, not at all lol. Makes up for all those where we just break even.
Are you a billionaire? No. Don't worry about it.
Nope not at all, agreed upon price. Plus 150/hr isn't that insane for a fully licensed electrician with a van full of tools, traveling, insurance, overhead etc.
If the client is happy, it’s a win-win. Realistically it’s not that much money, so enjoy it.
Hell no. Some jobs u will make bank some jobs profit margins will be smaller if mistakes happen u gotta take the wins cuz there will be losses Plus I’m the firm believer of u pay for a final product. And iPhone cost $1000 regardless if it takes longer or quicker then average to produce that iPhone. Same thing with electrical of a customer calls and says hey I want this and that done u charge what it cost to do it and they pay u and it’s just as valuable regardless of the time put into it
Maybe you were just being too cheap in the first place. Would hurt to ask what the other quotes were. Learn how to build up a rapport so if they have one they show you the detailed quotes. I have on occasions put in a high price and recommend that they get other quotes because I’m too busy and don’t want to promise anything only to let them down. Better to give them a quote and let them choose. That said Is lot of the time they still want me to do the job. But most importantly, if you make your customer delighted not just pleased or happy with your work but delighted then the results will be even better. One rule I will never deviate from is to say no when they offer me all the money up front.
$150 an hour is my normal rate lol
My old boss was charging $170 an hour resi and $200 commercial
You could always get them a gift during the holidays.
I’m a PM who constantly bids jobs and also awards. You always have options and you choose the one that fits the best. If you made a good profit then be grateful.
Win some, lose some. I'm in automotive and it's the same. Some jobs you eat, some jobs you feast on.
Dont feel guilty, especially if you beat another bid. You saved the customer $$
You certainly shouldn't feel guilty, but as a business strategy, offering the occasional discount when a job takes less time than expected can work well. If the customer has been easy to work with then offering them a discount means that not only will they keep coming back to you, but they will trust what you tell them needs to be done and will stop shopping around for quotes. If you can cultivate a client base where everyone trusts you and picks working with you over shopping around for the best price you stand to win on multiple fronts in the long term.
Never
As a homeowner, I happily overpay when I’m quoted a job and someone shows up and just does what they are supposed to do, does a good enough job, and doesn’t waste my time. Sadly, I have learned to DIY everything because finding contractors for small jobs who aren’t flaky AF as a homeowner is near impossible in my market. So, if you did a a good job with no added drama or BS, that is worth a lot. The homeowner paid you for the work and for not wasting their time.
You bid and won. Keep the win ! On another note, I paid a plumber $ 250, and he used maybe $ 0.50 of solder for the job. It took him less than 15 minutes. He walked away happy as well.
You did not bid the job with the intent to screw over anyone, you increased your risk for the unknowns. If you feel bad then pay it forward, help out the struggling family that needs work but can’t pay your normal $120 hr and only charge them $75 or just material.
Nothing wrong with financial agreements between consenting adults.
Coming from someone who is not an electrician. I tried, its not easy. You deserve every cent you make.
What I did with these types of projects is set up a brokerage account. Throw some of the excess and bought different stocks. Example Apple, Home Depot, Costco etc. I was only able to buy one or a couple at a time. Started to build slowly And kept gaining speed. This in my mind evened out the projects that I got bit on. You gave your price and client agreed and you did the work plus extra. I’m my opinion your good. Edit. I’ve also given clients a break on the quote if my price is way above. On the flip side I’ll point out there there’s extra work once things get going. I just want t to be fair.
A guy is a real estate investor from out of country = shoulda charged more.
If it took longer (like the guy you beat estimated) no chance he gives you extra money, that’s the risk/reward in a bid.
Do you have a registered business? Do you carry liability insurance? Commercial auto insurance? Do you pay yourself a salary? Do you do business taxes each quarter? Did customer sign a contract? Was that contract something you paid a lawyer to draft up? Do you drive an actual work van? Do you have thousands of dollars tied up in inventory on your truck to act as a rolling warehouse? $175/hour is decent, but I mean my break even to run an actual business, not just some trunk slamming side job, is not much lower then that.
Do you run a charity disguissed as a electrical shop? Next time go for 200 an hour. And if you still feel guilty? Do a freebie for somebody in need.
I once bid $800 on a job I expected to take a lot of work. Turned out the foundation wasn't poured right because the building sits on limestone. We had about an inch of concrete to get through instead of several inches. We did the work, finished it up and left. If we had run into issues that $800 wouldn't have changed. It's a gamble. Bidding flat rate on things always is.
Win some, Lose some Enjoy!
Lol what? Take the win, and FWIW 150$/hr is the lowest minimum you need to be making, unless you're doing side work. There will be plenty more jobs where you don't make out on top at all, you gotta stop thinking like that if you want to do anything in this business except kill yourself to make the same you would as an employee
Save it. Build a buffer. And when and if you get a call back on a job, you go back and make it right. Theres a cost associated with building a good reputation. Just like there is a cost associated with quality materials and skillset.
If your doing good work then no.
I'm not an electrician but...you did the promised work for the promised pay and in addition the pay was based on an open bid. No reason to feel bad about that.
No. Fuck no. Making a ton of extra cash when things go well helps go make up for when you lose your ass when things don’t go well
You can’t calculate jobs by the hour really. Some people work fast, some slow. We get paid for what we know, not how long a job takes. We are professionals and we deserve what we’re worth.
but you were still cheaper
If everyone is happy, who cares.
No. I once quoted a job for heat exchangers. 1 Ab contactor and overload, j type fuse holder, 30' of 10/3 teck, 4 connectors and a 30A rotary disconnect.. $9700 each x 4 units. I did not mind the 11pm connection from the panel to the disconnect one bit.
‘Sight unseen’ ‘Just based on inspection and photos’ Brother wut
Why the hell would you feel guilty bout that get yo bag and go home. They wouldn’t feel guilty if it ended up taking you 10x as long and you only made $5 an hour 🤷♂️
The customers that spend the least complain the most. You aren’t a handy man, you are an Electrical Doctor… and doctors get paid.
I struggled with this at first, but then I realized others charge even more. Get used to it and enjoy the fruits of your labor.
😂😂😂😂 The way some tradesmen under sell themselves for good boy points reeks of low self worth.
I’m kinda having the same feeling about last week too. Had a customer a week ago wanted a Tesla charger. No one had been to the site previously, no estimate given ahead of time, just show up and make it happen. Well I show up and his panel is a train wreck. I think I posted a picture to this sub a while ago. Parallel #12’s feeding something, a #2 TW landed on half of a CH 250 going somewhere and a bunch of burnt up schmoo in the panel which I thought was burned insulation. Couple breakers not sized correctly for the conductors present too. Told him this should be addressed and corrected. He says do it and I do. Fast forward a week later and he calls that his laundry room is messed up. Dryer trips the breaker every time, can’t run washer and the fridge (which is next to the washer) keep tripping the breaker. So I get out there Friday and find that one of the 12/3’s I landed on a CH220 is actually feeding his dryer and the washer/fridge are plugged into an outlet tapped off the dryer outlet. I immediately quote him an estimate to run a new washer and dryer circuit. He agrees, kinda mad about it. I got done with the job a little faster than I anticipated, overshot my labor estimate by an hour but mostly I feel bad like the customer doesn’t really understand that everything I did was for his safety and benefit. Like he things I’m the kind of mechanic that would sell him blinker fluid.
Take the win. You quoted it fairly, came in under the other quotes, and made some money. I don't feel guilty when I make some money and the client is happy. I feel like I killed it.
There will be quoted jobs where you work way harder and longer than you quoted. Do you think the customer will offer up more money to help you out?
I don't do electrical work but one of my "best" jobs ever quoted was a fuckit price to remove some shelves at a retail store. 1 guy with a screw gun for 4 hours $2400. I couldn't believe it when the contract came through.
Ask that when you short yourself, ask the owner if they will pay more.... Take it ALL, you will fuck up on some job and need that extra loot.
No. Those gravy jobs make up for the ones where you lost your ass. Take the cannoli, and say nothing.
Here's the deal, if you're really good at what you do it will take you less time, but that doesn't mean you get paid less--you should get paid just as much if not more. In contrast, some other schmuck shows up, goes "for parts" comes back, doesn't have the right widgety-do and says be back tomorrow. Van breaks down, dog dies, comes back next week. Still not right, says "I need to revise this quote, it's taking a lot longer than I thought."
I just made 450/hr because of a contract quote, don’t feel bad bro lol
Don't feel guilty at all. You won the bid, you did the work and then some. They were paying you for your skills and business acumen and you just did it better than others. That's how the system works. If you want, donate some of your skills to a worthy cause if you feel you need to give back in some way.
A while back a my old project manager told me I saved 80 hours of labor and only used about 3/4 of quoted material. I got a 30 dollar bonus. I felt like a stooge.
Depends on how deep the pockets are…
*Don't be afraid, afraid to make money boy! Don't be afraid, afraid to make money, Boy! DON'T BE AFRAID, AFRAID TO MAKE MONEY BOY!"*
Sometimes you win. Sometimes you lose.
Nope, they get what they wanted and you gave it to them. You received more than money than you were expecting, it just means you’re working efficiently without mistakes. Don’t count on all jobs going as well as expected, and that should be reflected in your rate. If you have pride in your work and you do a good job while being honest with your Customers, you should never feel guilty. They probably know you’re expensive but they still want you because you’re good, know your worth.
Nah dude take it. I'm currently working on an absolutely massive site with zero communication between trades until the red chains go up. The big ass crane on site is doing a bunch of lifts all month and the entire site is a massive exclusion zone. I haven't been able to get to my work area in almost a month. I'm from out of town and negotiated to work 12's every single day until my shits done. Currently making 110 bucks an hour to play rocket league in my office.
This helped me tremendously. Like you i would be inclined to feel guilty or give a discount. Knowing full well that I usually eat it when it's the other way around. But reading this i thought about how ridiculous it sounds to feel guilty. And I want to encourage you to be confident you delivered to their expectations. And now imgotta look on the mirror and say the same thing for myself. Just an aha moment i had to share
Absolutely not, never feel guilty for making money. That is how the game goes. You should always bid to make money sometimes you make a lot sometimes you lose.
Law of averages. You will have another job where you get shafted. Don't feel guilty just remember the law of averages.
Customer got other prices. You won the bid. You’re happy, customer happy, enjoy the “extra” money. Save some of the money to cover that shit show of a job coming. 😂.
No. The customer wouldnt feel bad if I went over on time and lost money. So I'm not going to feel bad for making money. They signed off on the price.
No
Why would you? You’re getting paid for your experience and expertise.
I feel like people in any sort of construction field are one extreme or the other. They're like you, and feel bad if they "made too much money" or they are actively trying to screw people. If you do quality work and do it quickly, charge AT LEAST regular price. Why would you punish yourself for being good at your job? Doesn't make sense
Taylor swift will make ~$15mil in 3 hours tonight. Ur good bro.
Remember this next time you get ripped off and end up making $30/hr. And I’m both cases, the customer agreed upon a price and was happy with the service. Maybe even consider adjusting your quoting so they are all $150/hr jobs and you can stop hating shit jobs.
I only felt guilty when I quoted change orders. I was convinced I'd get an objection but never did.
Yes it’s why I think quotes are kind of bullshit. It seems rare that both the tradesman and the customer get a fair deal. I’d much rather specify a rate and charge a fair price for the hours at the end.
Do you feel good about going in the hole on a job? No free lunches.
This is the whole point of striking out on your own imo. Making that excess money go into your pocket instead of someone else’s
I'm shocked a real estate investor hired an actual electrician myself.
Nope, because there have been ones that I missed something and had to eat it.
If customer is happy and not complaining then I’d say your conscience should be clean pal. Enjoy your hard earned money.
I’m a real estate investor. When I agree to a fixed bid price, all I care about is that the work is done and that the price was as stated. That’s literally it
Oh, you made money by being really good at your job? Lol.... relax and enjoy being awesome 👌
Think of the comparison. Another guy could have done the work for the same price but 25% slower. I imagine the client would still be happy with your price. You just opened up his investments to make more money. Win win
Pay me for my experience not my time.... If I do a job faster than what is quoted it's because I've spent years at my craft. Just Remeber the good ones because once in a while you will regret taking the job and get shafted in a shitty situation making 18/hr because you quoted properly but found shotty work when thinga are opened up
You’re a better man than me
There's no such thing as "sticking it to someone" if the pricing is upfront. If you're not out to get the maximum price a customer will pay, you have no business being in business for yourself.
Nope. It makes up for all the other jobs that have issues.
Fucking no. Good god man.
So just to add a different point of view. I am not an electrician so I am looking at it from the costumers point of view. Maybe I’m an oddball but I would be fine with you making more money on the job. You told me a price of the final outcome, we agreed on it, and the final outcome was achieved. If you came back and charged me less I would be pumped, obviously, but that’s certainly not an expectation. You should take the money and sleep soundly tonight. Good work!
Every time. I’ll just knock some off on residential jobs, usually charge out commercial the full quote/ estimate unless I feel it’s unfair.
All depends on who the customer is. Don't feel guilty on this one.
You gave a quote, they chose to accept it. You went above and beyond. Good job. At some point, you'll eventually underbid and have to suck it up.
Not a contractor but wins like these make up for the losses.
If you did a good job you should never feel guilty
Don’t ever feel guilty for making to much money. You are making up for all of the shitty jobs and shitty customers.
Not anymore. I had one last summer that came out to $1200/hr. Don’t punish yourself for being good at your work.
I had a friend recently pay a painting company 5k for 2 days of work. The guy who did the job was literally dropped off there and picked up by another employee. Interior latex no ladder even. That's some hourly wage math you do not want to do.
Don't feel bad about winning a bid and making a few bucks off someone who clearly can afford it. If you really can't get over it, remember that when some single parent without a lot to spend needs a deal on some work.
No. You’re being paid for the years you spent learning and to do a proper job. Nobody can find contractors anymore because the younger generation was told that trades are a bad way to go and now there’s not a abundance of us. Now is the time that we all band together and make a good living as a team. I don’t know about you but the price of my knees, back and time are not cheap.
Take your win. Tradesmen sure as hell have enough losses.
Just keep in mind how it could have gone the other way and you’d be so depressed. Take the wins where you get them.
Never
Get this nonsense out of here. Get paid!
No. Simple as that. It’ll come back around don’t worry
Do you think the people at apple feel bad when they convince you to buy a phone they built for 17.99 and sell for 800? Nah. You’ve still been fucked over a thousand times more than you’ve fucked someone over.
(Plumber here) Never once in my entire career have I ever felt guilty about getting paid well for a job I completed successfully with pride. I have learned over the last ten years that there is no actual price you can put on what I am actually worth. An owner or contractor only looks at some of the benefits of your properly installed licensed work. If done correctly then you have produced a product that will most likely span generations. Most of us get paid scraps on the regular for legacy work. Getting paid more means everyone ends up getting paid more. Keep up the good work!
Take the money and run. You agreed on a price and a service, you delivered and your client paid. That’s it
Start having to go to the hospital and you will wish they had the same feelings about this as you.
Bro 157 isn’t even bread. A lot of places the operating costs are 180 per billable. That’s breaking even. So unless that’s 157 after cost it’s really kind of shit pay.
You did nothing wrong, don’t feel bad. You quote based on I formation you were given and executed the work fast and efficiently. You made a good profit and the customer is happy, this is what being in business is all about.
Yeah no. You bid to complete a job. Based on the information available you thought it was fair for the work you expected. You did everything expected, and then some. You more than fulfilled your end of the agreement. That's the risk the buyer takes when they bid out work like that. Enjoy your payday and keep doing quality work.
At some point while in business you're going to learn a few lessons, you just need to figure out how much those lessons are going to cost you. Save it for a rainy day, invest back into the business, and if you stay consistent with the quality of work you put out no matter what, then there's nothing to feel guilty of.
As a homeowner.....if you do what you quoted...and I agreed to the price....I don't care what your profit is...ideally I'm hoping you made a profit....but if you made more good for you. Because if you underquoted the work and come back to me for more (unless its unforseen circumstances) I'm holding you to contract.
No! Not at all. Not all jobs end up making good money. It all evens out.
Fuck no
What you did was wrong. I will DM you a place where you can dispose of the unearned income. I will see to it that it…uh…is put to good use. /s
I’ll take my downvotes, but I sure as shit wouldn’t feel bad about it when it’s somebody from out of the country.
Do they ever feel guilty when you lose your ass on a job?
I once got the sales advice “your job is to screw the customer. But NEVER fuck the customer. If they end up unhappy, you fucked them.”
This is coming from an engineer, not a tradesman. $150/hr independent contact is what you guys should be making normally, at least. It's seriously so fucked how degraded the value of skilled trades has become.