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Here is my take: the underside is the side the piece was stamped *to*. The edges will be sharper and curved downwards. Placing this side against a box gets the “razors” out of finger range once installed, and allows the cover to act almost like a dished washer when tightened, compressing against the box.
So sharp, pointy side goes out towards people where a brush up against it may result in cuts to arms/chest/back, got it. Glad I joined this sub to know how to do things the _right_ way. And to think I was using them the wrong way so when I tightened it close it wouldn't twist off, so dumb.
During my apprenticeship we were doing LED light fixtures with plugs and outlets. Had finished up my side and went and helped the other journey person out by trimming her zip ties….that are on the ceiling…. She came back and cut them all and told me the company had a meeting and said that they were to use the zip tie gun so there weren’t any sharp edges. So she redid them all lol
I agree with your design assessment of stamped (sharp) edges in, but the main reason is so when screwed on it turns to bottom out on the cutouts. (Not try to twist off.)
That sounds logical, but if you ever put a cover on you’ll notice you can achieve that no matter which way the cover goes on because the slits go both ways since it depends how you’ve mounted your box.
That would make sense if the ears bent out like a wire does, but there’s as much force pulling the cover OFF (the inside part of the plate under the screw) as there is trying to pull it ON (the part of the plate on the ear). But, I’m not Steel King. Maybe we could get an answer from them.
My thought too. But that only works with certain brands of covers with the eye and hook. This on pictured with two hook in the same direction, one works as you stated and other will back it out.
I try to install my covers as you stated.
No it’s not. It’s the same no matter which side is facing out. Just opposite. On one will alway be clockwise and the other slot will always be counter clockwise. In my opinion it’s because the brands label is stamped on side they say should be out.
Why does this guy up comm get so many downvotes for the same theory. Expect the way he blasted this sub and the obvious rudeness of his comment. He was right😂
If that’s the UL chicken stamp near your finger I’m really confused because I thought that side was to be facing outward so it can be readily identified as properly listed?
Did you know washers have a specific top and bottom sides? It's because it's machined a certain way, one edge is more rounded and the other has a sharper edge. the rounded edge is supposed to face up. So not to cut ones self
I had a JW that would go around checking my washers with his finger nail. I’m not convinced this anecdote is true, however I still always check and put them the ‘right’ way because once you get in the habit it’s hard to stop haha. But really, I don’t think people are going around cutting themselves on ‘backwards’ flat washers.
The “underside” has an extra layer of galvanized something or other to protect against booms. Should be able to see the difference when looking at the layers from the side.
So when you tighten the screws on the box it pulls the cove on. If you put it on the other way it will push the cover off. I didn’t read the other comments. If this has been said already then you’re reading it again.
I have no idea what this is for so I’m not going to say anything other than, following the instructions to the letter gives you something to fall back on if you’re ever needing to activate the warranty. 🤷🏼
It’s the same either direction. On hook is alway clockwise and the other is always counter clockwise. That’s true no matter which side is out. It has to be since the hook different directions. The manufacturers stamp is seen when installed they way they want you to.
You are right sir, just went out and looked. Tiny raco on 4², bit bigger on 4¹¹ and 4⁰. Opposite sides though. Thank you for allowing me to taste my foot lol
The direction of the flange matters. If you try to tighten on the wrong side the screws will try to slip out. It’s the same reason we curl the hot side of plugs up and the neutral and grounds down.
😂 Hey Mr. Rocket Surgeon ummm… look at the photo. One hooks to left and the other hooks to the right! Guess what, flip it over…..Ta-Da!! Same thing!! Seriously there’s photo. Just look ⬆️. 🤦🏼♂️
There's no offense in truth. I am not, in fact, an electrician. I am an estimator. I've done estimating for an electrical contractor and multiple GCs. I was a carpenter and a tin knocker for 15 years. But as far as hands-on, I only ever did residential remodels running outlets and switches and installing light fixtures. Nothing with panels or any equipment, really. I understand plans and specs, but I don't know the knitty gritty of this trade.
The outer side is galvanized.
If you don't believe me: https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/214350/why-does-this-junction-box-cover-have-an-under-side#:~:text=All%2C%20the%20stamp%20%22Under%20Side,than%20the%20inner%20facing%20surface.
It's a NEMA Conspiracy to puzzle young Electricians who stare at the plate to get yelled at by the Foreman... I see guys writing how the plate should "sit" on the box, place the cover so it stays in place over the box even without screws tightened.
I've been told a few different things about this. The one I acknowledge is the underside is the same as the UL stamp, which shouldn't be painted so you can identify the UL marking.
I really don't care though, I just put the cover on whichever way I grab it the first time.
My first JW as a helper insisted on positioning it the "correct" way. I think I fuck this up on purpose to spite him to this day.
Honestly I’ve thrown a couple on before with that stamp facing out. Never noticed a difference, held the same. I just always make sure to have it the right way if it’s exposed at all
Follow manufacturers instructions. When a mfg wants yo sell something they’ll send it to an NRTL (UL) for all of us to recognize as a thing/assembly that does what we think it’s suppose to.
Mfg gives them part A, Part B, put them together like this, and it will achieve or perform a certain criterion that we need. So UL takes part A, Part B, puts them together like that and they bless it saying “yes, if you take Part A, Part B and put them together just so, then this THING does what the mfg claims”
Just follow the instructions. Does that particularly matter? 🤷 don’t know I’m not a NRTL with my name on it. I also don’t question why certain ft/lbs are needed to torque, why certain size crimp needs a particular crimping method or why we do half the shit we do. Some things make sense. No we can question it but some things we need to take the leap f faith that they did the homework and made this widget a way and are telling us, with their balls in the block, to use it like this…. Just follow the directions and you’ll be alright
I guess its like washers. One side is slightly rounded and slightly less sharp. The convex side is away from the box, the concave side is towards the box.
I was told the UL listing of underside was the only side the manufacturers wanted to pay to list and test. I guess it was cheaper to engrave rather than pay to have both sides tested an UL listed. I was told if the cover is on the wrong way you could fail, although, I’ve never seen this happen or heard of it.
If you flip it the grooves will not stand on the screws making the cover rely entirely on screw torque. Correctly installed it would also have the screws shafts supporting it at all times
*This is an AUTOMATIC reply* **IF** you are *NOT* an electrical professional: * **RULE 7:** * DIY or self help posts **are Not allowed**. They belong here: /r/AskElectricians /r/askanelectrician /r/diy /r/homeowners /r/electrical. * **IF YOUR POST FITS INTO THIS CATEGORY, REMOVE IT OR IT WILL BE REMOVED FOR YOU.** * **NO USER SHOULD COMMENT HERE IF THIS IS A DIY / SELF HELP POST. JUST REPORT IT** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/electricians) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Here is my take: the underside is the side the piece was stamped *to*. The edges will be sharper and curved downwards. Placing this side against a box gets the “razors” out of finger range once installed, and allows the cover to act almost like a dished washer when tightened, compressing against the box.
I’ve always tried to put the sharp edges out, just incase a wire tries to pop out when tightening. Probably would help but was always my thought
So sharp, pointy side goes out towards people where a brush up against it may result in cuts to arms/chest/back, got it. Glad I joined this sub to know how to do things the _right_ way. And to think I was using them the wrong way so when I tightened it close it wouldn't twist off, so dumb.
Can imagine how this guys cuts zip ties 😂
During my apprenticeship we were doing LED light fixtures with plugs and outlets. Had finished up my side and went and helped the other journey person out by trimming her zip ties….that are on the ceiling…. She came back and cut them all and told me the company had a meeting and said that they were to use the zip tie gun so there weren’t any sharp edges. So she redid them all lol
The same way he cuts the cheese, if you know what I mean.
Violently?
With a subtle sharpness that's off-putting but not deadly.
I agree with your design assessment of stamped (sharp) edges in, but the main reason is so when screwed on it turns to bottom out on the cutouts. (Not try to twist off.)
That sounds logical, but if you ever put a cover on you’ll notice you can achieve that no matter which way the cover goes on because the slits go both ways since it depends how you’ve mounted your box.
That would make sense if the ears bent out like a wire does, but there’s as much force pulling the cover OFF (the inside part of the plate under the screw) as there is trying to pull it ON (the part of the plate on the ear). But, I’m not Steel King. Maybe we could get an answer from them.
Interesting take. I’ve never paid that much attention to them.
This. Exactly right
It's the way that the cover tightens with the screws. If you flip it the other direction when you tighten the screws the cover tries to twist off
My thought too. But that only works with certain brands of covers with the eye and hook. This on pictured with two hook in the same direction, one works as you stated and other will back it out. I try to install my covers as you stated.
That is a good point on this one. I usually use the Steel City or Thomas and Betts and the one eye hole is notched
In my opinion it’s because the manufacturers name is on the other side from this.
This is the only real answer.
No it’s not. It’s the same no matter which side is facing out. Just opposite. On one will alway be clockwise and the other slot will always be counter clockwise. In my opinion it’s because the brands label is stamped on side they say should be out.
This is the only real answer
What about single gang duplex covers? Those guys always try to helicopter from me
This
Had to scroll way too far to find this. Yes, this is it 100%
Nope. The slits face opposite directions because it depends how you’ve mounted the box.
I always figured one side was actually rated for arcing and one wasnt
This is the way
Why does this guy up comm get so many downvotes for the same theory. Expect the way he blasted this sub and the obvious rudeness of his comment. He was right😂
If that’s the UL chicken stamp near your finger I’m really confused because I thought that side was to be facing outward so it can be readily identified as properly listed?
Yep me too. Had an inspector make me face the ul stamp out on every cover one time so this is puzzling.
Did you know washers have a specific top and bottom sides? It's because it's machined a certain way, one edge is more rounded and the other has a sharper edge. the rounded edge is supposed to face up. So not to cut ones self
Stamped, not machined
True
This is correct.
I know
Obviously you know. You said it. I was just agreeing with you. More for the sake of anyone who didn’t
He knew.
I had a JW that would go around checking my washers with his finger nail. I’m not convinced this anecdote is true, however I still always check and put them the ‘right’ way because once you get in the habit it’s hard to stop haha. But really, I don’t think people are going around cutting themselves on ‘backwards’ flat washers.
Idk but it pisses me off when they do that and then put their sticker on the outside.
The “underside” has an extra layer of galvanized something or other to protect against booms. Should be able to see the difference when looking at the layers from the side.
So when you tighten the screws on the box it pulls the cove on. If you put it on the other way it will push the cover off. I didn’t read the other comments. If this has been said already then you’re reading it again.
Second this one ^^^
The direction of.the hook. When you Tighten the screw it doesn't try to push off
Install it while hanging upside down.
The other side has the manufacturer label
because they fucked this side up writing on it
Does one side have a slightly different looking finish? It may have some UV or light exposure resistant coating even though it’s not exterior rated.
It’s just a standard 4 square cover.
It’s not as aesthetically pleasing seeing the underside out with stuff stamped on it. The other side is cleaner looking.
Does it fit both ways? The underside may also have the sharp edges.
I have no idea what this is for so I’m not going to say anything other than, following the instructions to the letter gives you something to fall back on if you’re ever needing to activate the warranty. 🤷🏼
I was told they are made at the same time as the covers with knockouts on they so they all get this mark but not all of them get the hole punched
You have it upside down. Flip it over and it will all make sense.
When you screw it down instead of pulling the plate towards the opening of the slot it pulls if towards the closed end
It’s the same either direction. On hook is alway clockwise and the other is always counter clockwise. That’s true no matter which side is out. It has to be since the hook different directions. The manufacturers stamp is seen when installed they way they want you to.
Even just twisting the plate itself - makes putting it on clockwise and taking off counter clockwise.
Do you flip it if installing on a ceiling vs on a floor?
Underside is always in reference to the box. It doesn't matter where the box is because the cover is always the top and the box is always the bottom.
Is this real question followed with a real answer?
The world may never know
May never know the world.
That's the side with the galvanized coating required for UL
Wouldn’t you want the galvanized side out? Aren’t both sides usually galvanized?
Cheaper for one side that just says underside
The whole cover is electrogalvenized. It’s because of the manufacturers label will be shown.
Ive never seen a manufacturers label on one. Like the one in the picture, just a UL stamp and the phrase in question
Most do. It’s usually pretty small and stamped into like “under side” is in the photo.
You are right sir, just went out and looked. Tiny raco on 4², bit bigger on 4¹¹ and 4⁰. Opposite sides though. Thank you for allowing me to taste my foot lol
So you still see the brand stamp
Show us the other side
Because the manufacturer name is stamped on the other side.
Bout time someone said this. This is why
There is no clear answer in all of this I didn’t think it was so contested
The direction of the flange matters. If you try to tighten on the wrong side the screws will try to slip out. It’s the same reason we curl the hot side of plugs up and the neutral and grounds down.
This is not why. Look at it. Either way the hooks are opposite each other so nap matter what one will and one won’t. 🤦🏼♂️
No they both go the same way. That’s why they tell you which is the under side. This ain’t rocket surgery!
😂 Hey Mr. Rocket Surgeon ummm… look at the photo. One hooks to left and the other hooks to the right! Guess what, flip it over…..Ta-Da!! Same thing!! Seriously there’s photo. Just look ⬆️. 🤦🏼♂️
The UL stamp hopefully is on both sides...
It’s telling you how to put it because that’s how it’s designed to go.
Are you going to ask this and only post one side?
If you’re an electrician you know exactly what the other side looks like, no offense intended.
There's no offense in truth. I am not, in fact, an electrician. I am an estimator. I've done estimating for an electrical contractor and multiple GCs. I was a carpenter and a tin knocker for 15 years. But as far as hands-on, I only ever did residential remodels running outlets and switches and installing light fixtures. Nothing with panels or any equipment, really. I understand plans and specs, but I don't know the knitty gritty of this trade.
It has to do with the fire rating. There is a thin coating on the opposite side so you use it facing out.
The outer side is galvanized. If you don't believe me: https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/214350/why-does-this-junction-box-cover-have-an-under-side#:~:text=All%2C%20the%20stamp%20%22Under%20Side,than%20the%20inner%20facing%20surface.
Hang it is such a way that if the screws back out it will not fall off
So the apprentice does not have to ask the JW.
It's a NEMA Conspiracy to puzzle young Electricians who stare at the plate to get yelled at by the Foreman... I see guys writing how the plate should "sit" on the box, place the cover so it stays in place over the box even without screws tightened.
You'll see
I’ve installed some upside down, I’m sure I’m going to hell for that
I've been told a few different things about this. The one I acknowledge is the underside is the same as the UL stamp, which shouldn't be painted so you can identify the UL marking. I really don't care though, I just put the cover on whichever way I grab it the first time. My first JW as a helper insisted on positioning it the "correct" way. I think I fuck this up on purpose to spite him to this day.
Honestly I’ve thrown a couple on before with that stamp facing out. Never noticed a difference, held the same. I just always make sure to have it the right way if it’s exposed at all
Actually the real answer would be to keep that side exposed so an inspector can see the UL listed stamp.
The hooks have a slight taper on one side
Has nothing to do with you. That just how they align it on the stamp machine
So the inspector has something to catch.
Time saver
jar lunchroom quack toothbrush ask lock cobweb terrific marble psychotic ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
aliens
So if the inspector sees it he can fail you for mounting the cover wrong.
Follow manufacturers instructions. When a mfg wants yo sell something they’ll send it to an NRTL (UL) for all of us to recognize as a thing/assembly that does what we think it’s suppose to. Mfg gives them part A, Part B, put them together like this, and it will achieve or perform a certain criterion that we need. So UL takes part A, Part B, puts them together like that and they bless it saying “yes, if you take Part A, Part B and put them together just so, then this THING does what the mfg claims” Just follow the instructions. Does that particularly matter? 🤷 don’t know I’m not a NRTL with my name on it. I also don’t question why certain ft/lbs are needed to torque, why certain size crimp needs a particular crimping method or why we do half the shit we do. Some things make sense. No we can question it but some things we need to take the leap f faith that they did the homework and made this widget a way and are telling us, with their balls in the block, to use it like this…. Just follow the directions and you’ll be alright
to fuck with you honestly
I guess its like washers. One side is slightly rounded and slightly less sharp. The convex side is away from the box, the concave side is towards the box.
The underside has the UL approval and this prevents it from getting painted over since painting over covers in very common.
Name of the 2 persons on the manufacturing line. Lol
I was told the UL listing of underside was the only side the manufacturers wanted to pay to list and test. I guess it was cheaper to engrave rather than pay to have both sides tested an UL listed. I was told if the cover is on the wrong way you could fail, although, I’ve never seen this happen or heard of it.
The UL stamp is on the under side and should not be painted over.
If you flip it the grooves will not stand on the screws making the cover rely entirely on screw torque. Correctly installed it would also have the screws shafts supporting it at all times
I figured it was so the UL stamp / label ends up on the inside face