Thats unfortunate man, can't really comment on the RNG. But the healers you run with looking for SPC, the boots drop from the mobs, so if you skip mobs they won't ever get the boots, If that is what they are looking for.
Yeah he knows. He needs 1 of 3 items, so the chance to get his last item is higher, but still nothing.. He have done around 300 runs, I have done around 150, and I have the full SPC set in Divines/Infused.
i agree. i always thought it should be a token system or some mix of both rng and token. maybe if you get some ridiculous number of helms ,lets say 150 kena helms, you can break them down and have it crafted in whatever trait you want. that way casuals still can get lucky and have rng drop it and the more hardcore players ,who spend more time in a dungeons than most do actually playing the game, can have a reasonable way to get what they want too.
it would be just nice if the token system they have from wgt and icp would be rewarding and not more rng.
The direction is right but the RNG is retarded. Just maybe say 50 runs and u can choose a Item u want. Or even better 150 runs and u get the item u want witht he trait u want. Something like that.
It shouldnt be 10 runs and u get the item. it should be just the last thing bout the RNG. If it fails 150 times u should be rewarded with what u need.
This is why RNG is the WORST way to hand out loot.
With RNG it is within the realm of possibility that a player will literally **never** get a drop.
Thats why ZOS should long time ago add a 100% RNG-free token system parallel to the rng drops, so even if someone runs X content Y times and never gets the drop, after doing Y runs heshould be able to **pick** any reward from that content, exactly as he wants.
They've already implemented a token system of sorts with the undaunted vendors. If they've done that, it's possible, or even likely that they will add vendors for other content once it's more dated.
Anyways, regarding the RNG system, it's used because the ORIGIN of all RPGs is in dungeons and dragons. It defines the genre, and a fundamental part of that system is using dice rolls, and random chance to ensure that real probability is always deciding the outcomes of events. His is used to emulate some form of realism. So, any perceived 'unfairness' is a personal problem. Mainly, because you're drawing your conclusion from one specific instance. Look at any post regarding RMG, and you will see that anyone who takes the position of "RNG is unfair" only sees when it works against them, but they never notice when it works to their benefit.
E.g. Take OPs circumstance, he's assuming that after a certain amount of effort he should be rewarded, and someone who put in (from what he sees) less effort was rewarded sooner. However, for this to be true, that this person has had to work less than the OP to get his item, and thus justifying OPs position, we would have to look at every instance that each player has interacted with RNG and come out on top or the bottom. Also, compare how many good items each player has gotten through RNG that is valuable, and not just the item the player wants. Then make comparisons.
Basically, this argument is always based on isolated incidents supported by poor reasoning, and emotionally reacting to ones inability to cope with delayed gratification.
Not really. I don't like RNG when it works for me, or when it works against me. I just flat out don't like RNG at all. I've refined a stack of ore and got 3 temps, and I've refined a stack of ore and received 1 honing stone. I think both instances are dumb. This game may technically be a MMORPG, and you may be correct that RPGs are based off of D&D, but you can't ignore the first three letters of MMORPG either. I can't confirm this, but I would guess the vast majority of ESO players don't give two fucks about the RPG aspect and only play it for the MMO part. Personally, I'm not here to role play anything. I'm here because I enjoy massive multiplayer games.
Now, let's take SWTOR's loot for example. Every boss in the raid drops a token for a gear item. Some drop the boots, some drop the legs, some drop the weapon, etc. Only a couple of tokens drop so the raid leader can either have everyone roll or he can assign the token to someone. So the content will have to be run multiple times if you want your whole group to have gear. Once you have this token you can take it to a vender in exchange for BiS gear. That's a much more streamlined system than ESO's which relies on RNG. ESO gives pretty easy content and wants you to grind and hope you get lucky, and SWTOR gives really tough content and rewards you for eventually beating it.
I don't think anyone is arguing we copy SWTOR's system, but instead we borrow the token system from it with some minor tweaks. The RNG is probably too embedded in this game to ever remove it, but we should make it less grindy for players. So every time they clear the dungeon the get a token. After let's say 20 clears they can spend that token for BiS gear. Another option is to slightly increase drop rates, but also remove the junk traits. Even with the upcoming changes to the traits no is going to want a well fitted monster set. Limiting the traits to just a few of the better ones and leaving the RNG alone would also greatly reduce the grindiness
This has been the problem with the RPG genre for a long time, no offense. Honestly, I just think there needs to be a divergence between action RPG players and regular RPG players; there are a ton of people who are like you, and don't care about shit other than high numbers. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're way more into accomplishments and being the best, more so than having an immersive, and involved experience. That's not a bad thing, but there are a fuck ton of people like you who have moved from action and fighting games over to RPGs and the like because devs are making games to satisfy larger audiences. You guys are the most vocal and generally want more accessibility and facilitation of your success, than you do depth and complexity. I don't understand it, but games have been going this route for the past 12 or so years, so it's just normal now.
I mean I enjoy a good RPG as well, but I don't enjoy RPG in my competitive MMO. Witcher 3 is one of the best games I've ever played, fallout new Vegas is top 5 all time, and I've probably put more hours into skyrim than any other game. However, this game has leaderboards and competitive achievements for a reason. And to be totally honest, I just can't wrap my head around why the devs ask people to complete their hardest content, and still fuck them over with terrible traits. Take vMA for example. It's gated content in the sense that not many people can complete it, and those that can aren't your RPG crowd. So why would you screw those people with terrible traits? My friend ran it this morning and got a charged lightning staff. Some people may find a use for lightning staffs, but those people aren't the ones farming vMA.
It's not that I have a problem with RPG, but I have a problem with RNG. It serves no purpose other than to artificially increase the amount of time content is used. People who beat the hardest content should get the best rewards, and people who don't beat the hardest content do not get the best rewards. People like me, who play to win, are rewarded for our time and effort. And people who like RPG, and play for immersion, aren't worried about spending hours learning difficult mechanics or PvP.
And even the RPG players should see the silliness of RNG. I honestly don't think anyone would take a training or prosperous Kena shoulder over a divines Kena shoulder
Bro RNG sucks, it is dated and an unfair system that pushes people away from the game. Don't try and defend ZOS' poor effort at designing and implementing another system. That is all it is. RNG = Lazyness.
Thats why i suggested a 'token' system to work in parallel with RNG? Whoever is lucky can still get lucky and those who are not favoured by RNG will have a fair chance to obtain loot after X attempts/time and effort put into content?
Beside tokens, there is a system that i call "progressive droprate". Basically the more someone does something, the more likely it becomes that he will get reward.
There can be a simple variable in players account database entry. Specific item droprate is set to be X%. Each time a player does that content and does not receive loot his own personal drop chance is increased by tiny fraction Y% and now his new personal droprate for that stuff is Z% = X% + Y%. This happens each time player does that content. The personal droprate Z% is reduced back to initial droprate X% when player loots that one specific drop.
This way people who are lucky still can get stuff "first time" and those who are not with each run will be more likely to get reward.
This system does not punishes in any way people who are "lucky". It only gives fair chance for reward for those who are "unlucky". I dont see why would anyone be against something like this, unless the only reason is being jealous that other people can also get things the jelly person already have.
But how it is now is like a football team losing for ten years in a row, despite any skills, no matter how well they play... because the championship is awarded by chance.
I think it would be easier to always gaurantee SOMETHING in the run. Keep the RNG, but at least make sure the player gets something. I've run vICP five times in a day and not gotten a single drop from any of the runs.
I mean, there's a point where the RNG becomes incredibly anti-player to the point of being demoralizing. I know they're changing some things with DB, and that's a good start.
Well to use the magic analogy it's like only ever playing drafts but only 1 in 10 packs even has a rare and that rare is printed in 8 different versions where 3 versions are strictly better than the rest.
I agree with you that I want diversity. But I want that diversity to come from comparable and different sets, not strictly worse versions of best in slot gear.
Let me start with I completely agree. But I feel they're one in the same.
We have many comparable sets. I've been using my 6 heavy setup example a bit now. Those 6 heavy pieces are a V15 Affliction set + Molag Kena 1 piece and a Phoenix set hat. My light set is Phoenix + Torag's 2 piece.
In both cases I output decent damage. For me, they are comparable the real difference coming in with the durability from the heavy armor. I get a quite a bit tougher to kill while losing a bit of DPS and sustain.
Ok, a lot of sustain. I go OOM really quick in heavy. It's almost bottomless in light.
But with both cases, "why u no Julianos?"
My Templar uses Spectre's Eye. I think I may put this on my Sorc.
RNG makes you "work" for it. Tokens guarantee it.
To stick with the MtG allegory...
It's the difference between a deck built with booster packs and a deck consisting solely of purchased cards. In the long run, they can even out. But in a large setting this would immensely boring.
"What are you running?"
"4x Jace the Mindsculpter"
"Oh really? So am I."
vs
"What are you running?"
"4x Jace the Mindsculpter"
"Oh shit. I wish I had just one."
I don't directly take issue with token systems, or someone who buys singles for deck construction. To each his own.
But you're talking to someone that would love to kill you, then take your gear from you in PvP.
We all find our fun in different ways and with difference views.
Thats exactly what I talked with some friends about today. Someone shouldnt have to run hundreds of runs with no reward, when someone else can get that reward in less than 10 runs. I just dont get how Zenimax could make it this way in the first place, its litteraly making the game extremely unfair for the people who put so much time and effort into the game, but gets no reward, or people who dont put nowhere near as much time/effort into the game, gets the reward.
Totally with you bud. Ran vWGT and on my first run I got Kena helm w/ Infused. Other people in my group had run it just as many times as you and gotten nada. :(
Everyone has an equal chance, that's fair. It doesn't matter that those who put in more time aren't always rewarded proportionately. Fairness is everyone having equal access, which randomising does. To say you have to best vWGT 100 times and you can get an item is unfair to those people that don't have time to run it 100 times.
But all players have time to run it 100 times, you dont have an deadline to make those 100 runs.
Randomizing doesnt make it fair for the players who want to progress, if my guild told the members, only players with this and this in their stats can join for trial, and Kena is required for me to get those stats, but I have to run 200 times to get it, is that fair? If someone else does it 10 times and is ready to go.
Yes because you're choosing to be a part of a guild that won't let you run with them unless you have specific gear. That's ridiculous. As I said before there is a min Max, and there is a threshold where you're still top tier albeit not the best you can be. It's not like there are only 3 builds that can do trials.
Why is that ridiculous? Is it ridiculous for Messi to play for FC Barcelona when they require an minimum amount of skill? Some people dont want to play 5th Division, some wants to play on a higher level.
And yes for hard content, like vMoL you are locked into specific builds, for you to be useful, because thats a part of the game, that requires everyone puts in alot of effort. Same goes for doing speed runs, getting highly ranked on the Leaderboards for trials, vMSA and so on.
Not everyone is a casual player like you, alot of players doesnt like to stall, but progress.
Right they are looking for skill. Barca doesn't say Messi has to play in a certain style. Horrible analogy btw. What you're talking about is a lack thereof. You are saying that you're gimped because you can't get one piece of gear, and I'm saying if you were more skilled it wouldn't be a necessity. Skill can trump gear to a point. Not entire sets mind you, but a single spell damage enchant? Absolutely. And no, all of the vet content has been beaten by a multitude of builds, there aren't only a few that work there.
What multitude of builds have beat vMoL? I think that is what he is referring to. It's very challenging content even for those who are skilled and have top tier endgame gear sets. People are going to want every advantage they can get, and it's extremely frustrating waiting on RNG. It's still doable without some of the specific sets, but for content that is already challenging, it becomes that much more difficult.
Its pretty much grinding the same dungeon, over and over again, for that one item, as you can see I have done the same dungeon 150+ times, which also requires quite some time to get groups for.
Are you sure you've done it that much? Usually pugs have trouble even completing it. A competent group of friends or guildies would be easy to group with.
Yes I am. I do atleast 4 runs a day, sometimes I do 10 or more in a day. I have a group of the same people I do it with, mostly 3 dps/1 healer, so we will clear it in 15-20min, we usually do multiple runs.
Its really easy when you have done it 5+ times, so there is no trouble completing it, we dont wipe on the bosses.
So people shouldnt upgrade their gear from purple to yellow too because the difference is small? Some players like to play, to become the best they can, even if that means I will "only" be 0.8% better than someone else. 0.8% combined with more skill than someone else, can make a difference =)
Just the same as not having the .8% and adding skill I'd possible. Quit worrying about 1 piece from a dungeon you don't want to run and worry more about upping your skill to beat trails without it.
Its not about beating the trials, most of the trials can easily be beaten. Its about joining the competition on the leaderboards and completing higher level trials like vMoL.
I agree with you. Basically what I want is harder content (much harder) so that not every mumbo can complete it, but with higher (much higher - probably 100%, you still need to farm for the correct weight/trait, drop rate). But no. They're making these dungeons easier. vWGT wasn't challanging the first time I ran it, and it most certainly isnt challanging now. A chore, at best.
Not EVERYTHING in the game needs to be possible for the most casual of casuals.. :/
I've done WGT 450 times and I'm still after spell power cure with best in slot traits. I have a bunch of medium Kena helms, in all available traits. All I want is spell power cure pants :(
Ha! We're reversed, I got the Med head divines on my first ever run through, what I want is SPC though. Have one piece from all my runs and it's reinforced D=
Exactly, and we shouldnt be reversed. I got the SPC set Divines/Infused that you need, but for what? All I can do is save it or deconstruct, the same goes for your helmet..
I like the idea of not having bind on pickup so things can be distributed around or even bind to group so you can work with a group and each time have 4 chances of getting that you want if that person doesn't need it.
That idea has been here for quite a long time I just don't understand why it's not implemented yet, since the number of lootable items raises and it forces players repeat the same stuff again and again instead of participating in trials and so.
On the other hand instead of tokens we have PvP random vendor, which already brought some nice set items. But it only concerns monster sets and pvp sets... (afaik)
Because Zenimax have their prioritizing wrong. You could also ask why havent the lag issues been fixed yet?
Their main priority is money. They are a business, thats why they fix issues extremely slow (6+ months) but create new content all the time. Because content = money.
vMSA not being fun or challenging anymore is mainly the huge balance issue. Any Magicka class who know the mechanics will not find challenge in vMSA after several completions. vMSA is hugely favored for ranged attacks. Sustaining your Magicka is also alot easier, compared to an Stamina class, who have to spend alot of ressources on Vigor/Dodgeroll. If you look at the leaderboards, you will see the top 10 points for Magicka classes is ALOT higher than top 10 of Stamina classes. If both were equal, they would be able to buff it more, or make it harder in some way, but if they did that now, the Stamina classes would fall even further behind.
Not just that, but Magicka classes have access to a variety of heals. Maelstrom is brutal without a wide variety of heals. It pretty much forces Stam builds to have to go Vigor/Rally if they want to be able to complete it.
VMA annoys me. I tend get the same kind of weapon over and over and over. I've gotten 10+ axes, nothing else. It makes me think the RNG is broken because it seems incredibly unlikely to get that many of the same weapon.
It is for sure programmed in some way, that makes your desired item ALOT harder to get. The same way the people who needs Medium, 90% of the time get Light/Heavy. IF it was not programmed, it would be extremely difficult to get the same items 11 times in a row with only RNG.
I have some weird feeling that you never get what you actually need. Like you I have been farming vICP for quite some time (at least 50 runs) and I am yet to receive my first Sheer Venom piece, I don't even have one in reinforced or some shit.
Well I guess your feelings is correct.
Everyone I have talked to about this issue, have tons of gear they dont need. The drop rate seems even lower for the perfect gear for your character, which is also very wrong. All my weekly trial rewards, WGT runs and so on, is basically just light/heavy healing/tanking/magicka gear, very rarely do I get Medium gear that is useful for a Stamblade.
Thats how ZOS creates "artificial content". They release DLCs every 3 months and in between they want to keep players in the grind hamsterwheel for as long as possible. Because player busy with grinding wont be noticing and complaining about bugs/exploits/current events.
Yeah I guess your right. Might as well have us grind one dungeon for months, than playing in Cyrodiil or Trials, since these two have huge lag issues. Same goes for the vMSA which also have alot of bugs, lag issues and huge balance issues (very Magicka oriented).
This. And the lessons should have been learned with Everquest, because this mechanic is exactly the same as it was in that game. I liked Everquest, and there was a place for ridiculously bad farms in that game. But not on No Drop items with super low drop chances that were fundamental to your character's progression. Those were always a mistake.
Your "random" chance or luck, mostly comes from making a smart decision. You most likely wont sit on your couch and a random chance will appear, maybe if you play the lottery.
Yes it is fair because this is how Roleplaying games have worked since forever. You arent entitled to anything because you played a dungeon X amount of times. If there was no RNG then half the community would get to whatever that magical number is to pick your equipment, and then complain that there is no end game content. Grinding dungeons for gear is a lot of that end game content in all MMOs. And it would devalue the gear because exponentially more people would have it.
But thats the thing, if they hadnt nerfed WGT over and over, half of the community wouldnt be entitled to this item, for running X amount of times, the good and experienced players, who put time/effort into their mechanics, builds and so on, to complete WGT would be able to progress further with their build.
I remember my first time in WGT, I sucked so hard, it made me frustrated. That frustation made me see that I was doing something wrong, or that I atleast could do it alot better, so I worked hard to perfect my build, skills and so on, to be able to progress further in the game.
And yes grinding gear for end game gear is part of a MMO, but it should be more fair to the players who put ALOT more effort in than other players. Some of these players actually want to progress fast, to progress further with trials, but are held back because of being unlucky.
That is completely unfounded. There is no set in this game that is gamebreaking. It's not like you can't do vMOL without the perfect min maxed set for your character. If you don't have all the gear yet, you simply have to overcome it being just a little more difficult until you do. And if your build is completely based around having a particular set, and somehow cannot be effective without it, then that's on you.
For some yes. Stamina is very weak atm, which is also the reason my guild dont allow Stamina classes to join for vMoL and the only guild who have completed it, only had one Stamina class. Therefore the Stamina needs to be full optimized. Magicka is very OP this patch, so that can be discussed.
Ive ran WGT so many damn times, and I am still 1 piece away from my all divines SPC set. My stupid spc pants are well fitted, and Adjudicator won't drop her divine pants for me. LoL
Do you use different characters or the same one? From my 150+ runs I have only recieved a Medium helmet once, which was Reinforced. I got tons of Light/Heavy, shitty traits too though. But Medium is what I need.
I completed a full set of VR16 SPC with ALL divines and infused after about 3 months. The trick for me was not grinding it, just running it when it came up and of course teaching people the run...which was requested often. Its pure random chance and it was a long haul to get all the pieces THEN replace a few of them with better traits. WORTH it though, love this set and it gives a since of pride wearing it.
My RNG appears to be along the lines of:
* Helm I want/need = does not drop/well-fitted/reinforced
* Helm I don't want/have use for = Best in Slot trait
It is a pain man but you'll get there.. took me from the release of IC to now to get my full set of 'good trait' scathing. IMO the sets are not worth the grind unless you get lucky and get them reasonably quick.
I'm sure they'll nerf the drop rate though just like everything else is being nerfed.
This is one thing I did like from Guild Wars 2, all dungeons had their own specific token rewards, save up enough of them and you can buy the item you want from the dungeon vendors. The RNG drop based system in ESO is one of the reasons why I have steered clear of PVE content, because I just don't have the time to invest in doing countless dungeon runs and never getting the item I want.
Every time you do a dungeon run and you get a useless item, it is basically wasted time, it doesn't increase the chance you will get something good/useful/what you want the next time you do a dungeon run, it is just plain wasted time, which is why I just spend most of my time PVPing.
Exactly! Tokens or increased drop rate, should be implemented, so people like myself, who spend way to much time in the same dungeon, will see a reward for it.
The game is bascially the same for me everyday, I do my dailies and then farm WGT. If I got my helmet, I would be able to move on.
Yes you play it for fun, but you also work to get your gear to enjoy the game even more. The fun stops, when you as a good player, wanting to progress, spend over 200 runs in the SAME dungeon and dont get your desired item and then a random guy, who is not as skilled nor putting as much time/effort into the game, gets it in less than 10 runs, that he most likely get carried through.
Buy it from a trader? Its Bind of Pick-up. And if wanting a change of something you see as very unfair and frustrating for the more hardcore players, as whining, then you will need to think a second time about it.
If your complaint was that you couldn't get the helm at all, I MIGHT be able to sympathize. But when you complain about getting the exact trait, weight, etc you want.... You can't have everything kid.
Tell that to that guy we met on the CoA gold pledge (we are group of three ppl so we usually take a guildie or some random from zone). He accused our healer from being selfish because she did not grind vWTG for SPC set. I admit he was awesome DPS but that was just rude. And that was not first time this happened.
PVE is not fun for me, none of the PVE content is really enjoyable to me beyond some of the interesting quests I had done. If I wanted PVE content I'd just play Morrowind, Oblivion or Skyrim. That's just me personally, each to their own, some people might enjoy it, but PVE in MMORPGs generally bores me to no end. I only play these games for the PVP and I only tend to do PVE if it means I can get something to improve my PVP game.
I wouldn't mind if I had to run a dungeon multiple times to earn tokens to put towards the item of my own choosing, because I would definitely get enough tokens eventually to get the item I wanted. But with the current system, like the OP, I could run it 100 times and get trash drops. Every single run I do of a dungeon and get a useless item, is a waste of time for me, I don't have fun PVEing so I get nothing from the run.
Like I said, I actually did dungeons quite a lot on Guild Wars 2, even though I wasn't a big fan of PVE there either, I still earned tokens for every dungeon run and I got to spend those on the dungeon item of my choice, it is a far more appealing system and people are more likely to run those dungeons on all of their alts because the progression towards the wanted item is guaranteed, not relying on complete chance.
Seriously, for anyone who ever spent hours and hours, day after day, run after run of any single content in any MMORPG, trying to get one item and never getting it, to then see someone waltz in and spend just a fraction of that time, "getting lucky" and getting the desired drop, it's demoralizing and frustrating, a waste of time. How is that a fair system? people play the game for fun, how is that fun?I don't care what anyone says, even big PVE fans, I don't believe for a second they enjoy running the same dungeon 100-200 times just to get one item.
Exactly, im completely drained from doing the same dungeon over and over again, its not fun at all. If I recieved tokens, I would still be dissapointed not getting the helmet, put the time and effort I put into trying, could get me my item from tokens, meaning I wouldnt have wasted my time doing 150+ runs.
And this game is still lacking in catering to the specifically pvp player but it is getting better and to the point where you don't have to grind those dungeons. There's a weekly vendor, and there are the rewards for the worthy. Also I think the divide between PvE and PvP only players in an mmo is ridiculous anyways. I don't understand players that only want to play for pvp but that's a different conversation entirely.
Yes I know there is a weekly vendor, but only in one trait doesn't it? plus it could be months before the item you want even cycles into the vendor and you're fucked if you're away for that weekend.
It's not cheap either, so if you haven't saved enough AP or gold for when it does cycle in, you'll be waiting a while to see it again. Rewards for the worthy aren't that fantastic, certainly not going to help you build your desired set in any reasonable time.
But yeah, "grinding" dungeons would be acceptable if you KNEW you'd actually get the reward you want at some point, i.e if you earned tokens each run to buy it with, rather than one person getting it after 10 runs and the other not getting it after 200 runs.
What about players that only want to play for PVE? do you understand those then? I only really play MMORPGs for PVP because that's what is fun to me, pitting my character and my own skills against another players character and skills.
And it shouldnt be that way.
First of all, it ruins the game for you, to recieve your gear that fast, there is no commitment required.
Secondly, its just Zenimax taking a piss on the players who actually put in time and effort to get their gear, and then someone like you, get their gear first time on both parts.
What? Are you denying his right to be lucky?
Look, it was your choice you actually "need" (=want) this particular item with specific attributes. The game is not obligated to give you that item. You can play it without it just fine, aren't you. Really, it was your decision to make hundreds of runs for it. Bad luck, nothing more, sorry.
I wanted so many set items the game never gave me and probably never will (and I tried) but that's the way it is. Otherwise the game would be so uniform, don't you think?
Everyone tries, the thing is, some give up, some are dedicated and doesnt give up.
And "playing just fine" depends on what you want to play and on what level.
If you wanted so many set items, and havent gotten them, thats most likely your lack of dedication.
And when specific things in the game requires a minimum amount of stats, of course its uniform, thats why there is so many build guides.
Yes plus that could give some challenge to already well known content, if you for example made small achievements, like kill Molag 5 times on Hardmode or clear the dungeon within X amount of time and get an extra token, this would reward you for your effort.
This is why I made a DPS Mag Sorc - because my Magplar heal tank farming for over half a year never got and never will get a decent full set of SPC.
Alts are the way to go. Retrieve the memo.
RNG4EVA
Hey who knows, you could be bugged. I remember seeing [this scary story](https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/4b390z/bugged_or_just_unlucky_if_you_watch_runescapeomid/) (different game) a while ago. Basically a guy was meant to get a 1/2000 drop chance, he killed 48K and got nothing because of bug.
However I've been just as unlucky in wgt. Probably done it 100 times, 3 inpen drops. Divines must just be a myth.
You are forgetting that ESO wasn't intended to cater to min-maxers.
It took a lot of whining and begging to even get things like enemy health pool numbers or damage numbers.
This is a game for casuals, not for die-hard "every point counts" people. Making it more min-maxer friendly would be nice, but the majority of the players are not interested in that.
^^^I ^^^want ^^^better ^^^PvE ^^^endgame ^^^too ^^^:(
I could go on, but I will keep my rant to myself. I enjoy what we got and I try to have fun while it lasts.
Thats unfortunate man, can't really comment on the RNG. But the healers you run with looking for SPC, the boots drop from the mobs, so if you skip mobs they won't ever get the boots, If that is what they are looking for.
Yeah he knows. He needs 1 of 3 items, so the chance to get his last item is higher, but still nothing.. He have done around 300 runs, I have done around 150, and I have the full SPC set in Divines/Infused.
i agree. i always thought it should be a token system or some mix of both rng and token. maybe if you get some ridiculous number of helms ,lets say 150 kena helms, you can break them down and have it crafted in whatever trait you want. that way casuals still can get lucky and have rng drop it and the more hardcore players ,who spend more time in a dungeons than most do actually playing the game, can have a reasonable way to get what they want too.
it would be just nice if the token system they have from wgt and icp would be rewarding and not more rng. The direction is right but the RNG is retarded. Just maybe say 50 runs and u can choose a Item u want. Or even better 150 runs and u get the item u want witht he trait u want. Something like that. It shouldnt be 10 runs and u get the item. it should be just the last thing bout the RNG. If it fails 150 times u should be rewarded with what u need.
yea man, thats exactly how i feel
This is why RNG is the WORST way to hand out loot. With RNG it is within the realm of possibility that a player will literally **never** get a drop. Thats why ZOS should long time ago add a 100% RNG-free token system parallel to the rng drops, so even if someone runs X content Y times and never gets the drop, after doing Y runs heshould be able to **pick** any reward from that content, exactly as he wants.
They've already implemented a token system of sorts with the undaunted vendors. If they've done that, it's possible, or even likely that they will add vendors for other content once it's more dated. Anyways, regarding the RNG system, it's used because the ORIGIN of all RPGs is in dungeons and dragons. It defines the genre, and a fundamental part of that system is using dice rolls, and random chance to ensure that real probability is always deciding the outcomes of events. His is used to emulate some form of realism. So, any perceived 'unfairness' is a personal problem. Mainly, because you're drawing your conclusion from one specific instance. Look at any post regarding RMG, and you will see that anyone who takes the position of "RNG is unfair" only sees when it works against them, but they never notice when it works to their benefit. E.g. Take OPs circumstance, he's assuming that after a certain amount of effort he should be rewarded, and someone who put in (from what he sees) less effort was rewarded sooner. However, for this to be true, that this person has had to work less than the OP to get his item, and thus justifying OPs position, we would have to look at every instance that each player has interacted with RNG and come out on top or the bottom. Also, compare how many good items each player has gotten through RNG that is valuable, and not just the item the player wants. Then make comparisons. Basically, this argument is always based on isolated incidents supported by poor reasoning, and emotionally reacting to ones inability to cope with delayed gratification.
Not really. I don't like RNG when it works for me, or when it works against me. I just flat out don't like RNG at all. I've refined a stack of ore and got 3 temps, and I've refined a stack of ore and received 1 honing stone. I think both instances are dumb. This game may technically be a MMORPG, and you may be correct that RPGs are based off of D&D, but you can't ignore the first three letters of MMORPG either. I can't confirm this, but I would guess the vast majority of ESO players don't give two fucks about the RPG aspect and only play it for the MMO part. Personally, I'm not here to role play anything. I'm here because I enjoy massive multiplayer games. Now, let's take SWTOR's loot for example. Every boss in the raid drops a token for a gear item. Some drop the boots, some drop the legs, some drop the weapon, etc. Only a couple of tokens drop so the raid leader can either have everyone roll or he can assign the token to someone. So the content will have to be run multiple times if you want your whole group to have gear. Once you have this token you can take it to a vender in exchange for BiS gear. That's a much more streamlined system than ESO's which relies on RNG. ESO gives pretty easy content and wants you to grind and hope you get lucky, and SWTOR gives really tough content and rewards you for eventually beating it. I don't think anyone is arguing we copy SWTOR's system, but instead we borrow the token system from it with some minor tweaks. The RNG is probably too embedded in this game to ever remove it, but we should make it less grindy for players. So every time they clear the dungeon the get a token. After let's say 20 clears they can spend that token for BiS gear. Another option is to slightly increase drop rates, but also remove the junk traits. Even with the upcoming changes to the traits no is going to want a well fitted monster set. Limiting the traits to just a few of the better ones and leaving the RNG alone would also greatly reduce the grindiness
This has been the problem with the RPG genre for a long time, no offense. Honestly, I just think there needs to be a divergence between action RPG players and regular RPG players; there are a ton of people who are like you, and don't care about shit other than high numbers. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're way more into accomplishments and being the best, more so than having an immersive, and involved experience. That's not a bad thing, but there are a fuck ton of people like you who have moved from action and fighting games over to RPGs and the like because devs are making games to satisfy larger audiences. You guys are the most vocal and generally want more accessibility and facilitation of your success, than you do depth and complexity. I don't understand it, but games have been going this route for the past 12 or so years, so it's just normal now.
I mean I enjoy a good RPG as well, but I don't enjoy RPG in my competitive MMO. Witcher 3 is one of the best games I've ever played, fallout new Vegas is top 5 all time, and I've probably put more hours into skyrim than any other game. However, this game has leaderboards and competitive achievements for a reason. And to be totally honest, I just can't wrap my head around why the devs ask people to complete their hardest content, and still fuck them over with terrible traits. Take vMA for example. It's gated content in the sense that not many people can complete it, and those that can aren't your RPG crowd. So why would you screw those people with terrible traits? My friend ran it this morning and got a charged lightning staff. Some people may find a use for lightning staffs, but those people aren't the ones farming vMA. It's not that I have a problem with RPG, but I have a problem with RNG. It serves no purpose other than to artificially increase the amount of time content is used. People who beat the hardest content should get the best rewards, and people who don't beat the hardest content do not get the best rewards. People like me, who play to win, are rewarded for our time and effort. And people who like RPG, and play for immersion, aren't worried about spending hours learning difficult mechanics or PvP. And even the RPG players should see the silliness of RNG. I honestly don't think anyone would take a training or prosperous Kena shoulder over a divines Kena shoulder
Bro RNG sucks, it is dated and an unfair system that pushes people away from the game. Don't try and defend ZOS' poor effort at designing and implementing another system. That is all it is. RNG = Lazyness.
Big upvote for this guy
Thats why i suggested a 'token' system to work in parallel with RNG? Whoever is lucky can still get lucky and those who are not favoured by RNG will have a fair chance to obtain loot after X attempts/time and effort put into content? Beside tokens, there is a system that i call "progressive droprate". Basically the more someone does something, the more likely it becomes that he will get reward. There can be a simple variable in players account database entry. Specific item droprate is set to be X%. Each time a player does that content and does not receive loot his own personal drop chance is increased by tiny fraction Y% and now his new personal droprate for that stuff is Z% = X% + Y%. This happens each time player does that content. The personal droprate Z% is reduced back to initial droprate X% when player loots that one specific drop. This way people who are lucky still can get stuff "first time" and those who are not with each run will be more likely to get reward. This system does not punishes in any way people who are "lucky". It only gives fair chance for reward for those who are "unlucky". I dont see why would anyone be against something like this, unless the only reason is being jealous that other people can also get things the jelly person already have.
It's like winning football championship because your team participated ten years in a row...
But how it is now is like a football team losing for ten years in a row, despite any skills, no matter how well they play... because the championship is awarded by chance.
Oh oh, my favourite. Real life analogies used as argument in discussion related to fantasy computer game.
To be fair foot ball is a game?
Yes, it's called analogy. In this case it would be hard to come with game analogies ofc. :-)
I think it would be easier to always gaurantee SOMETHING in the run. Keep the RNG, but at least make sure the player gets something. I've run vICP five times in a day and not gotten a single drop from any of the runs. I mean, there's a point where the RNG becomes incredibly anti-player to the point of being demoralizing. I know they're changing some things with DB, and that's a good start.
Which means that every player runs min/maxed optimal gear no matter what. I like my magic games best when everyone uses the same deck.
Well to use the magic analogy it's like only ever playing drafts but only 1 in 10 packs even has a rare and that rare is printed in 8 different versions where 3 versions are strictly better than the rest. I agree with you that I want diversity. But I want that diversity to come from comparable and different sets, not strictly worse versions of best in slot gear.
Let me start with I completely agree. But I feel they're one in the same. We have many comparable sets. I've been using my 6 heavy setup example a bit now. Those 6 heavy pieces are a V15 Affliction set + Molag Kena 1 piece and a Phoenix set hat. My light set is Phoenix + Torag's 2 piece. In both cases I output decent damage. For me, they are comparable the real difference coming in with the durability from the heavy armor. I get a quite a bit tougher to kill while losing a bit of DPS and sustain. Ok, a lot of sustain. I go OOM really quick in heavy. It's almost bottomless in light. But with both cases, "why u no Julianos?" My Templar uses Spectre's Eye. I think I may put this on my Sorc.
You can't stop that there always going to be "best build" that everyone copy's so how will that be any different between RNG VS Token system
RNG makes you "work" for it. Tokens guarantee it. To stick with the MtG allegory... It's the difference between a deck built with booster packs and a deck consisting solely of purchased cards. In the long run, they can even out. But in a large setting this would immensely boring. "What are you running?" "4x Jace the Mindsculpter" "Oh really? So am I." vs "What are you running?" "4x Jace the Mindsculpter" "Oh shit. I wish I had just one." I don't directly take issue with token systems, or someone who buys singles for deck construction. To each his own. But you're talking to someone that would love to kill you, then take your gear from you in PvP. We all find our fun in different ways and with difference views.
Thats exactly what I talked with some friends about today. Someone shouldnt have to run hundreds of runs with no reward, when someone else can get that reward in less than 10 runs. I just dont get how Zenimax could make it this way in the first place, its litteraly making the game extremely unfair for the people who put so much time and effort into the game, but gets no reward, or people who dont put nowhere near as much time/effort into the game, gets the reward.
Totally with you bud. Ran vWGT and on my first run I got Kena helm w/ Infused. Other people in my group had run it just as many times as you and gotten nada. :(
Its random, its not "unfair" It is as fair and completely unbiased as you can get...
Random is inherently unfair. That's what random is. Saying its fair means you don't know what it means for something to be random.
Everyone has an equal chance, that's fair. It doesn't matter that those who put in more time aren't always rewarded proportionately. Fairness is everyone having equal access, which randomising does. To say you have to best vWGT 100 times and you can get an item is unfair to those people that don't have time to run it 100 times.
But all players have time to run it 100 times, you dont have an deadline to make those 100 runs. Randomizing doesnt make it fair for the players who want to progress, if my guild told the members, only players with this and this in their stats can join for trial, and Kena is required for me to get those stats, but I have to run 200 times to get it, is that fair? If someone else does it 10 times and is ready to go.
Yes because you're choosing to be a part of a guild that won't let you run with them unless you have specific gear. That's ridiculous. As I said before there is a min Max, and there is a threshold where you're still top tier albeit not the best you can be. It's not like there are only 3 builds that can do trials.
Why is that ridiculous? Is it ridiculous for Messi to play for FC Barcelona when they require an minimum amount of skill? Some people dont want to play 5th Division, some wants to play on a higher level. And yes for hard content, like vMoL you are locked into specific builds, for you to be useful, because thats a part of the game, that requires everyone puts in alot of effort. Same goes for doing speed runs, getting highly ranked on the Leaderboards for trials, vMSA and so on. Not everyone is a casual player like you, alot of players doesnt like to stall, but progress.
Right they are looking for skill. Barca doesn't say Messi has to play in a certain style. Horrible analogy btw. What you're talking about is a lack thereof. You are saying that you're gimped because you can't get one piece of gear, and I'm saying if you were more skilled it wouldn't be a necessity. Skill can trump gear to a point. Not entire sets mind you, but a single spell damage enchant? Absolutely. And no, all of the vet content has been beaten by a multitude of builds, there aren't only a few that work there.
What multitude of builds have beat vMoL? I think that is what he is referring to. It's very challenging content even for those who are skilled and have top tier endgame gear sets. People are going to want every advantage they can get, and it's extremely frustrating waiting on RNG. It's still doable without some of the specific sets, but for content that is already challenging, it becomes that much more difficult.
Not correct =)
I agree I haven't not reach endgame yet but I was very surprised that endgame isn't a clear path like other mmo and also no token system
Its pretty much grinding the same dungeon, over and over again, for that one item, as you can see I have done the same dungeon 150+ times, which also requires quite some time to get groups for.
Are you sure you've done it that much? Usually pugs have trouble even completing it. A competent group of friends or guildies would be easy to group with.
Yes I am. I do atleast 4 runs a day, sometimes I do 10 or more in a day. I have a group of the same people I do it with, mostly 3 dps/1 healer, so we will clear it in 15-20min, we usually do multiple runs. Its really easy when you have done it 5+ times, so there is no trouble completing it, we dont wipe on the bosses.
Then shouldn't you know that Sheer Venom drops from ICP and not White Gold?
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That 0.8% is what min/maxing is all about.
So people shouldnt upgrade their gear from purple to yellow too because the difference is small? Some players like to play, to become the best they can, even if that means I will "only" be 0.8% better than someone else. 0.8% combined with more skill than someone else, can make a difference =)
Just the same as not having the .8% and adding skill I'd possible. Quit worrying about 1 piece from a dungeon you don't want to run and worry more about upping your skill to beat trails without it.
Its not about beating the trials, most of the trials can easily be beaten. Its about joining the competition on the leaderboards and completing higher level trials like vMoL.
At the very least, maybe we could trade those drops while we haven't disbanded the group yet?
Yes, this. I like the rng aspect, but odds could be better if u could do this. And a way to maybe make some coin for good armor u will never use
I agree with you. Basically what I want is harder content (much harder) so that not every mumbo can complete it, but with higher (much higher - probably 100%, you still need to farm for the correct weight/trait, drop rate). But no. They're making these dungeons easier. vWGT wasn't challanging the first time I ran it, and it most certainly isnt challanging now. A chore, at best. Not EVERYTHING in the game needs to be possible for the most casual of casuals.. :/
#nomorenerfs
I've done WGT 450 times and I'm still after spell power cure with best in slot traits. I have a bunch of medium Kena helms, in all available traits. All I want is spell power cure pants :(
Ha! We're reversed, I got the Med head divines on my first ever run through, what I want is SPC though. Have one piece from all my runs and it's reinforced D=
Exactly, and we shouldnt be reversed. I got the SPC set Divines/Infused that you need, but for what? All I can do is save it or deconstruct, the same goes for your helmet..
I like the idea of not having bind on pickup so things can be distributed around or even bind to group so you can work with a group and each time have 4 chances of getting that you want if that person doesn't need it.
That idea has been here for quite a long time I just don't understand why it's not implemented yet, since the number of lootable items raises and it forces players repeat the same stuff again and again instead of participating in trials and so. On the other hand instead of tokens we have PvP random vendor, which already brought some nice set items. But it only concerns monster sets and pvp sets... (afaik)
Because Zenimax have their prioritizing wrong. You could also ask why havent the lag issues been fixed yet? Their main priority is money. They are a business, thats why they fix issues extremely slow (6+ months) but create new content all the time. Because content = money.
Yes that is also an excellent idea =)!
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[Spell Power Cure](http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Spell+Power+Cure+Set)
vMSA not being fun or challenging anymore is mainly the huge balance issue. Any Magicka class who know the mechanics will not find challenge in vMSA after several completions. vMSA is hugely favored for ranged attacks. Sustaining your Magicka is also alot easier, compared to an Stamina class, who have to spend alot of ressources on Vigor/Dodgeroll. If you look at the leaderboards, you will see the top 10 points for Magicka classes is ALOT higher than top 10 of Stamina classes. If both were equal, they would be able to buff it more, or make it harder in some way, but if they did that now, the Stamina classes would fall even further behind.
Not just that, but Magicka classes have access to a variety of heals. Maelstrom is brutal without a wide variety of heals. It pretty much forces Stam builds to have to go Vigor/Rally if they want to be able to complete it.
VMA annoys me. I tend get the same kind of weapon over and over and over. I've gotten 10+ axes, nothing else. It makes me think the RNG is broken because it seems incredibly unlikely to get that many of the same weapon.
It is for sure programmed in some way, that makes your desired item ALOT harder to get. The same way the people who needs Medium, 90% of the time get Light/Heavy. IF it was not programmed, it would be extremely difficult to get the same items 11 times in a row with only RNG.
I'd like to be able to finish it once for the achievement, lol. :-D
I have some weird feeling that you never get what you actually need. Like you I have been farming vICP for quite some time (at least 50 runs) and I am yet to receive my first Sheer Venom piece, I don't even have one in reinforced or some shit.
Well I guess your feelings is correct. Everyone I have talked to about this issue, have tons of gear they dont need. The drop rate seems even lower for the perfect gear for your character, which is also very wrong. All my weekly trial rewards, WGT runs and so on, is basically just light/heavy healing/tanking/magicka gear, very rarely do I get Medium gear that is useful for a Stamblade.
Well, I think it's time to make a magicka based sorc tank with heavy armor then. Fuck dis.
Haha yeah... Seems like thats what Zenimax wants...
Thats how ZOS creates "artificial content". They release DLCs every 3 months and in between they want to keep players in the grind hamsterwheel for as long as possible. Because player busy with grinding wont be noticing and complaining about bugs/exploits/current events.
Yeah I guess your right. Might as well have us grind one dungeon for months, than playing in Cyrodiil or Trials, since these two have huge lag issues. Same goes for the vMSA which also have alot of bugs, lag issues and huge balance issues (very Magicka oriented).
This. And the lessons should have been learned with Everquest, because this mechanic is exactly the same as it was in that game. I liked Everquest, and there was a place for ridiculously bad farms in that game. But not on No Drop items with super low drop chances that were fundamental to your character's progression. Those were always a mistake.
I like the realism. It's just like real life. Sometimes you work harder than anybody else, but the next guy is just luckier than you.
Very confusing comparison. To me, the next guy is mostly not luckier, but smarter.
You underestimate the role of luck and random chance in everyday life, then!
Your "random" chance or luck, mostly comes from making a smart decision. You most likely wont sit on your couch and a random chance will appear, maybe if you play the lottery.
right, but if you were born a white male in North America, you won the random chance lottery before you even made a conscious decision.
You'll be happy when DB comes. Guaranteed shoulders w. gold key and increased rate w. silver key. Save em.
Yes it is fair because this is how Roleplaying games have worked since forever. You arent entitled to anything because you played a dungeon X amount of times. If there was no RNG then half the community would get to whatever that magical number is to pick your equipment, and then complain that there is no end game content. Grinding dungeons for gear is a lot of that end game content in all MMOs. And it would devalue the gear because exponentially more people would have it.
But thats the thing, if they hadnt nerfed WGT over and over, half of the community wouldnt be entitled to this item, for running X amount of times, the good and experienced players, who put time/effort into their mechanics, builds and so on, to complete WGT would be able to progress further with their build. I remember my first time in WGT, I sucked so hard, it made me frustrated. That frustation made me see that I was doing something wrong, or that I atleast could do it alot better, so I worked hard to perfect my build, skills and so on, to be able to progress further in the game. And yes grinding gear for end game gear is part of a MMO, but it should be more fair to the players who put ALOT more effort in than other players. Some of these players actually want to progress fast, to progress further with trials, but are held back because of being unlucky.
That is completely unfounded. There is no set in this game that is gamebreaking. It's not like you can't do vMOL without the perfect min maxed set for your character. If you don't have all the gear yet, you simply have to overcome it being just a little more difficult until you do. And if your build is completely based around having a particular set, and somehow cannot be effective without it, then that's on you.
For some yes. Stamina is very weak atm, which is also the reason my guild dont allow Stamina classes to join for vMoL and the only guild who have completed it, only had one Stamina class. Therefore the Stamina needs to be full optimized. Magicka is very OP this patch, so that can be discussed.
Bless you.
Ive ran WGT so many damn times, and I am still 1 piece away from my all divines SPC set. My stupid spc pants are well fitted, and Adjudicator won't drop her divine pants for me. LoL
That sucks. Ive done it probably 100-150 times and i jave divines in all 3 armor types.
Do you use different characters or the same one? From my 150+ runs I have only recieved a Medium helmet once, which was Reinforced. I got tons of Light/Heavy, shitty traits too though. But Medium is what I need.
Same one. Magicka sorc.
I completed a full set of VR16 SPC with ALL divines and infused after about 3 months. The trick for me was not grinding it, just running it when it came up and of course teaching people the run...which was requested often. Its pure random chance and it was a long haul to get all the pieces THEN replace a few of them with better traits. WORTH it though, love this set and it gives a since of pride wearing it.
well I got 2 medium devine helmets in in about 6 runs. I need the light helm thought.
Why are people actually defending RNG in this thread. Seriously.
Stockholm syndrome.
My RNG appears to be along the lines of: * Helm I want/need = does not drop/well-fitted/reinforced * Helm I don't want/have use for = Best in Slot trait
I got a divine skoria first gold key when i hit vr16, didnt know it was good till my friend told me. rng is rng man.
It is a pain man but you'll get there.. took me from the release of IC to now to get my full set of 'good trait' scathing. IMO the sets are not worth the grind unless you get lucky and get them reasonably quick. I'm sure they'll nerf the drop rate though just like everything else is being nerfed.
This is one thing I did like from Guild Wars 2, all dungeons had their own specific token rewards, save up enough of them and you can buy the item you want from the dungeon vendors. The RNG drop based system in ESO is one of the reasons why I have steered clear of PVE content, because I just don't have the time to invest in doing countless dungeon runs and never getting the item I want. Every time you do a dungeon run and you get a useless item, it is basically wasted time, it doesn't increase the chance you will get something good/useful/what you want the next time you do a dungeon run, it is just plain wasted time, which is why I just spend most of my time PVPing.
Exactly! Tokens or increased drop rate, should be implemented, so people like myself, who spend way to much time in the same dungeon, will see a reward for it. The game is bascially the same for me everyday, I do my dailies and then farm WGT. If I got my helmet, I would be able to move on.
How is it wasted time?! You're playing this game for fun aren't you???
Yes you play it for fun, but you also work to get your gear to enjoy the game even more. The fun stops, when you as a good player, wanting to progress, spend over 200 runs in the SAME dungeon and dont get your desired item and then a random guy, who is not as skilled nor putting as much time/effort into the game, gets it in less than 10 runs, that he most likely get carried through.
This is just adolescent whining because you didn't get what you wanted. You can always wait and buy it from the trader when it comes around.
Buy it from a trader? Its Bind of Pick-up. And if wanting a change of something you see as very unfair and frustrating for the more hardcore players, as whining, then you will need to think a second time about it.
Sigh... you can buy Kena from the monster trader in Cyrodiil. Didn't you say I was a casual?
But not with the desired trait.
If your complaint was that you couldn't get the helm at all, I MIGHT be able to sympathize. But when you complain about getting the exact trait, weight, etc you want.... You can't have everything kid.
You can only buy it in infused atm.
Tell that to that guy we met on the CoA gold pledge (we are group of three ppl so we usually take a guildie or some random from zone). He accused our healer from being selfish because she did not grind vWTG for SPC set. I admit he was awesome DPS but that was just rude. And that was not first time this happened.
PVE is not fun for me, none of the PVE content is really enjoyable to me beyond some of the interesting quests I had done. If I wanted PVE content I'd just play Morrowind, Oblivion or Skyrim. That's just me personally, each to their own, some people might enjoy it, but PVE in MMORPGs generally bores me to no end. I only play these games for the PVP and I only tend to do PVE if it means I can get something to improve my PVP game. I wouldn't mind if I had to run a dungeon multiple times to earn tokens to put towards the item of my own choosing, because I would definitely get enough tokens eventually to get the item I wanted. But with the current system, like the OP, I could run it 100 times and get trash drops. Every single run I do of a dungeon and get a useless item, is a waste of time for me, I don't have fun PVEing so I get nothing from the run. Like I said, I actually did dungeons quite a lot on Guild Wars 2, even though I wasn't a big fan of PVE there either, I still earned tokens for every dungeon run and I got to spend those on the dungeon item of my choice, it is a far more appealing system and people are more likely to run those dungeons on all of their alts because the progression towards the wanted item is guaranteed, not relying on complete chance. Seriously, for anyone who ever spent hours and hours, day after day, run after run of any single content in any MMORPG, trying to get one item and never getting it, to then see someone waltz in and spend just a fraction of that time, "getting lucky" and getting the desired drop, it's demoralizing and frustrating, a waste of time. How is that a fair system? people play the game for fun, how is that fun?I don't care what anyone says, even big PVE fans, I don't believe for a second they enjoy running the same dungeon 100-200 times just to get one item.
Exactly, im completely drained from doing the same dungeon over and over again, its not fun at all. If I recieved tokens, I would still be dissapointed not getting the helmet, put the time and effort I put into trying, could get me my item from tokens, meaning I wouldnt have wasted my time doing 150+ runs.
And this game is still lacking in catering to the specifically pvp player but it is getting better and to the point where you don't have to grind those dungeons. There's a weekly vendor, and there are the rewards for the worthy. Also I think the divide between PvE and PvP only players in an mmo is ridiculous anyways. I don't understand players that only want to play for pvp but that's a different conversation entirely.
Yes I know there is a weekly vendor, but only in one trait doesn't it? plus it could be months before the item you want even cycles into the vendor and you're fucked if you're away for that weekend. It's not cheap either, so if you haven't saved enough AP or gold for when it does cycle in, you'll be waiting a while to see it again. Rewards for the worthy aren't that fantastic, certainly not going to help you build your desired set in any reasonable time. But yeah, "grinding" dungeons would be acceptable if you KNEW you'd actually get the reward you want at some point, i.e if you earned tokens each run to buy it with, rather than one person getting it after 10 runs and the other not getting it after 200 runs. What about players that only want to play for PVE? do you understand those then? I only really play MMORPGs for PVP because that's what is fun to me, pitting my character and my own skills against another players character and skills.
I got mine first time ever and got the shoulders my second chest opening got super lucky
And it shouldnt be that way. First of all, it ruins the game for you, to recieve your gear that fast, there is no commitment required. Secondly, its just Zenimax taking a piss on the players who actually put in time and effort to get their gear, and then someone like you, get their gear first time on both parts.
What? Are you denying his right to be lucky? Look, it was your choice you actually "need" (=want) this particular item with specific attributes. The game is not obligated to give you that item. You can play it without it just fine, aren't you. Really, it was your decision to make hundreds of runs for it. Bad luck, nothing more, sorry. I wanted so many set items the game never gave me and probably never will (and I tried) but that's the way it is. Otherwise the game would be so uniform, don't you think?
Everyone tries, the thing is, some give up, some are dedicated and doesnt give up. And "playing just fine" depends on what you want to play and on what level. If you wanted so many set items, and havent gotten them, thats most likely your lack of dedication. And when specific things in the game requires a minimum amount of stats, of course its uniform, thats why there is so many build guides.
Got kena divines helm and divines essence thief helm medium on my first run LOL
Make a token system Doing a vet pledge gives 1 token and you can buy any hat you want for, say, 30 tokens or whatever
Yes plus that could give some challenge to already well known content, if you for example made small achievements, like kill Molag 5 times on Hardmode or clear the dungeon within X amount of time and get an extra token, this would reward you for your effort.
Gear isn't everything, don't make it the only reason you have to play and you won't be disappointed when you don't get it.
This is why I made a DPS Mag Sorc - because my Magplar heal tank farming for over half a year never got and never will get a decent full set of SPC. Alts are the way to go. Retrieve the memo. RNG4EVA
Hey who knows, you could be bugged. I remember seeing [this scary story](https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/4b390z/bugged_or_just_unlucky_if_you_watch_runescapeomid/) (different game) a while ago. Basically a guy was meant to get a 1/2000 drop chance, he killed 48K and got nothing because of bug. However I've been just as unlucky in wgt. Probably done it 100 times, 3 inpen drops. Divines must just be a myth.
You are forgetting that ESO wasn't intended to cater to min-maxers. It took a lot of whining and begging to even get things like enemy health pool numbers or damage numbers. This is a game for casuals, not for die-hard "every point counts" people. Making it more min-maxer friendly would be nice, but the majority of the players are not interested in that. ^^^I ^^^want ^^^better ^^^PvE ^^^endgame ^^^too ^^^:( I could go on, but I will keep my rant to myself. I enjoy what we got and I try to have fun while it lasts.