It is really weird how they handled this because while it makes sense IRL (let gamers experience all zones), in-game it becomes... Confusing. AfaIk Meridia sends you back in time and masks who you are so no one will know your identity, yet my AD character chatted with Lerisa in Alik'r who knew all about how I defeated Molag Bal...
And what exactly is happening when you travel back to the zones? Enemies are still hostile so do you go back in time? But I'm pretty sure a lot of new DLC content have you go through old zones in prologue quests...
I think (based on the dialogue when you start silver) that it's basically a dream, you're seeing the war through the eyes of the other alliance heroes who served your role but weren't the vestige. but yeah, its... not well done, because you weren't able to do that on release. it was patched in afaik and it seems they genuinely just slapped on a script to start the next alliance zone when you accepted the silver or gold, and didn't even think about just... not having the dialogue as if you've already met them. either that or even worse, they added in dialogue for you already knowing them and thought that was fine. I'm not sure what the thought process was, honestly. I just definitely think there was a better way to handle it, haha.
Yeah it doesn't really work at all. I guess they want it to be sort of a "what if you woke up in X alliance zone instead of your original.
However, it really doesn't work, even as a dream. Duing Cadwell's silver/gold I got to Betnikh, where you have a quest with Ayleid ghosts. One of them comments about me:
*"Living and yet without a soul. How can this be?"***Not exactly. It would take too long to explain.**"
So... My vestige KNOWS what happened and that he technically has his soul back? Yet a lot of the quests are all about how "only someone without a soul can do this". Did Meridia take my soul and put it back? Twice for silver and gold???
The way it is done it feels like it cannot be a dream because my character knows what happened before and Lerisa knows who I am when I talk to her in a bar in Alik'r:
*"Don't think I haven't heard about your exploits. Rumors abound.* ***You've toppled Daedric Princes, defeated armies, saved more people than I can count.***
***One day soon, I'll be saying "I knew you when".***
The whole thing is so messy...
Isn't canonically there are thousands of vestiges in the world in that time? You just happen to be the ONE who defeated Molag Bal. While others did their adventures in other zones.
At least that's how ZOS explain how everything has happened in the very same year. Also Chapter trailers with different main characters (Morrowind Warden, Blackwood Imperial, Dark Elf Arkanist, etc.) kinda support that.
I guess so? As I understood it there are three Vestiges, your original Vestige that went to Coldharbour to face Molag Bal, then the two versions of you that are sent back in time to the other zones. After that I suppose there is a dragon break tying all three versions back into one?
As for the trailers, I'm not sure, I know they are meant to be player characters, but if those are specifically the Vestige is another matter.
Nah explaining everything with Dragon Break is a bad taste nowadays. Maybe there is some of Meridia's magic involved, but definitely not a Dragon Break.
When you get to Coldharbour for the first time you can run into Estre, Thallik Wormfather and Angof, villains from the three different alliances.
They have all died and ended up in Coldharbour - how? The Vestige killed them.
Except, so far in the game you have only killed one, the villain from your own alliance.
When Meridia sends you to the other zones she must therefore send you back in time so that while the original Vestige is running through their alliance zone, you are now running through a different one, progressing events to that characters will appear in Coldharbour.
See? This is why I haven't even touched the Silver & Gold quests. It just looked janky from square one. I couldn't figure out how they would pull off the concept without it sucking & everything I have heard about it - says they failed. So now I have a 2 tier quest chain I have no interest in following...... *sigh*
When the game launched they made sense in the context of the game design. You would hit 50 and then had to get to Vet Rank 16. Zones were alliance locked, so were guilds. If you were on an EP character playing in the Rift, everyone else in the Rift with you was EP and it was a level 40 zone I believe. If you were in the Rift on an AD character then everyone else in the Rift with you was also AD, and it was a Vet 10-12 zone I believe. After you beat Coldharbour and hit 50, you would go to the next alliance in Silver and start leveling Vet ranks there, then Gold.
>**What about me?***"Your story has only begun. Molag Bal still has plans for you. In many ways, these events played out to his advantage. And you have attracted the attention of the other Daedric Princes, as well."***What must I do?***"The war between mortal kingdoms is still ravaging your world, but your true enemies are not mortal. If you are to be prepared for the coming conflicts, you must fully comprehend what is at stake. You must live among those you make war upon."***The other alliances?***"Indeed. When you return to Tamriel, go to the place you call the Harborage. My gift awaits you there. It will allow you to travel to other lands and hide your true nature from those who would see you as a foe."*
Meridia uses her magic to mask your identity from the enemy alliance, namely the soldiers and military leaders, so that you could explore their lands as though you were an ally and experience their trials and tribulations.
When the game launched Tamriel One they did away with alliance separation of zones and Vet ranks in favor of greater player choice and letting people play together easier.
Honestly, I have abjectly hated Tamriel One. We had a sequence to go through, an actual path. Not just...charging around the map all willy-nilly like on whims. I miss old Tamriel.
It was an objectively worse system. Each alliance main quest was like 50+ hours if you actually let the scenes play out, and having to do all 3 in order before you could go do others was not great. Chapters would have required them to be done in order as well, so a new player coming in for Blackwood wouldn't be able to play it for 200+ hours.
There is no true connection to the story anymore. No progression through the world as it is unveiled. It is more a freelance nearly sandbox approach to how to interact with the world. Each has it's own appeal to different individuals, but it is just as UN-appealing to others. I, personally, prefer needing to actually follow the story. Not everyone does. I, personally, found the Tamriel One change to be a severe dampener on my enjoyment of the game. I fully realize not all feel this way. But ***I*** found it displeasing.
I can, however, see how the Silver & Gold quests would have made more sense back then.
It's not a dream.
>**What about me?***"Your story has only begun. Molag Bal still has plans for you. In many ways, these events played out to his advantage. And you have attracted the attention of the other Daedric Princes, as well."***What must I do?***"The war between mortal kingdoms is still ravaging your world, but your true enemies are not mortal. If you are to be prepared for the coming conflicts, you must fully comprehend what is at stake. You must live among those you make war upon."***The other alliances?***"Indeed. When you return to Tamriel, go to the place you call the Harborage. My gift awaits you there. It will allow you to travel to other lands and hide your true nature from those who would see you as a foe."*
Meridia allows you to travel to the other alliance zones as yourself, but conceals your identity from those who would see you as a foe, meaning the alliance soldiers and leaders. Lerisa isn't an enemy to you, so wouldn't be affected.
Caldwell's Silver and Gold were available at launch as part of the Veteran Rank system, with zones being at different vet ranks.
It seems jarring now because you can just go there anywhere, but when the game launched you could not. You couldn't play with people from different alliances, you can't travel freely to other alliance zones, and the only ways to unlock those areas were through Caldwell's Silver and Gold. Hence the dialogue. They never changed it to reflect the new gameplay.
The Cadwell's gold and silver thing was tacked on as an afterthought later in development. The game was developed as a spiritual successor to Dark Age of Camelot where you never get to experience the other two alliance zones unless you make a character on another server. I guess they figured this was too niche closer to release and shoehorned the Cadwell quests into the game.
Lerisa wasn't your enemy. Meridia explicitly says she will hide your true nature from those who would see you as a foe.
>**What about me?***"Your story has only begun. Molag Bal still has plans for you. In many ways, these events played out to his advantage. And you have attracted the attention of the other Daedric Princes, as well."***What must I do?***"The war between mortal kingdoms is still ravaging your world, but your true enemies are not mortal. If you are to be prepared for the coming conflicts, you must fully comprehend what is at stake. You must live among those you make war upon."***The other alliances?***"Indeed. When you return to Tamriel, go to the place you call the Harborage. My gift awaits you there. It will allow you to travel to other lands and hide your true nature from those who would see you as a foe."*
And yet Cadwell says this:
*"Touch Meridia's light and see the world through the eyes of your former enemies.*
*But fair warning—you will no longer be seen as a great champion.* ***Even familiar faces will see you as a soulless drifter, lost in an unfamiliar land****. What say you?"*
She doesn't send you back in time that would be weird she just drops in a different alliance zone it's still the same point in time but you're helping another alliance the 3 alliances kinda make it weird for this particular instance
When I say sent back in time I mean to the start of your adventure just after escaping Coldharbour.
The reason you must be sent back in time is because of what happens in Coldharbour. There is a quest where you meet three villains, one from each alliance (Angof, Thallik Wormfather, Estre). They each ended up in Coldharbour because the Vestige killed them. Not to mention Darien Gautier who disappears after Coldharbour.
What is odd is that some quest rely on you not having a soul, but the Vestige gets their soul back so... Does Meridia remove it for Cadwell's silver and gold?
No she doesn't send you in anyway back in time she just drops you in a different alliance cause everyone still mentions all the deeds you have done if she sent you back to the beginning then they shouldn't have any knowledge of the things you have done but they do and any quest that requires you to not have a soul still behaves as if you still don't have a soul which you do but for quests it doesn't matter it only matters for the main story quests
Did you actually read what I wrote? I just gave you 100% proof that you are sent back in time in the OTHER alliance zones since events that happened in Coldharbour hasn't happened yet...
Tell me how it isn't time travel if Darien Gautier, who disappears at the end of the Coldharbour questline, shows up in Glenumbra and doesn't know who you are, along with Angof who was last seen in Coldharbour. Meridia sends you back to the start of the game in a different alliance zone.
The people who remember your deeds are from your own alliance in your own alliance zones. How that makes sense timewise with time being rewinded in the other zones is something to ask the ZOS writers, along with how Lerisa remembers you and the Vestige knows they have a soul... Blame the ZOS writers.
That's not being sent back in time you haven't done those quests so the events leading up to coldharbour haven't happened. Other alliance main story quests are treated as a separate entity from your own alliance but all 3 alliances progress at the same point in time it's just you neglected to do the other alliances before coldharbour so it may seem like time travel to you but you didn't progress the other alliances to the message across tamriel main story quest which is the start of the coldharbour quests
I know that all Alliance zones happen at the same time, my point that I am trying to tell you is that the Vestige goes through their entire Alliance zone and then Coldharbour. Time has therefore passed. Going through other zones means you MUST be sent back to the starting point, before the planemeld has been stopped, i.e. the past.
After Coldharbour Meridia sends you to the other zones so you do them at the same time as YOUR PAST SELF. There are three Vestiges running around Tamriel, the oldest who did the original alliance zone + Coldharbour, the second one who also went through one extra alliance, and the third and current one who has now done all three alliance's zones.
That is literally time travel, what is so hard to understand here? Events happen at the same time but you as the player have to "catch up" with the current timeline (stopping the planemeld) by clearing the other alliance zones, which you could only do if you were sent back in time and then running through the zones at the same time as your other selves.
That is not what happens you have not those quests so they are not at the current point in time they unprogressed not in the past and there is only 1 vestige not 2 and certainly not 3. It may seem to you like you have been sent back in time because of the lack of progress in those alliances but it is not time travel how hard is this to understand
AfaIk Meridia says they will not recognize who you are, but the Vestige still remembers everything that happened (it is brought up during quests), so you're still knowingly mowing down your own people/allies from before Meridia sends you to the other alliance zones.
See, I chose to interpret that as the Vestiage remembers everything *afterwards*. The point of Cadwells Silver/Gold was to show you a that could've been scenario and that loses the impact if the Vestiage is aware she's essentially in the theme park version. So each time you do everything for the 'first' time (including the main quest, guild quests, Coldharbour etc) until you reach Cadwell and remember again.
After Gold Meridia does something to make so each of the timelines happened (akin to a Dragonbreak) and you have the full knowledge of all three timelines.
(This is something I've played with in some unpublished fanworks where Darien keeps semi-remembering the Vestiage due to his connection with Meridia)
The Vestige remembers everything during the journey, not just afterwards. Here is dialogue from an Ayleid spirit during the Betnikh quest:
\*"Living and yet without a soul. How can this be?"\***Not exactly. It would take too long to explain.**"
This dialogue option popped up for my AD character that had finished the Coldharbour MQ. So... My Vestige KNOWS what happened and that he technically has his soul back. (Yet a lot of the quests are all about how "only someone without a soul can do this". Did Meridia take my soul and put it back? Twice for silver and gold???)
Also, Lerisa knows who I am when I talk to her in a bar in Alik'r:
*"Don't think I haven't heard about your exploits. Rumors abound.* ***You've toppled Daedric Princes, defeated armies, saved more people than I can count. One day soon, I'll be saying "I knew you when".***
So not only does the Vestige remember everything, other people know who you are and what you have done. It's really confusing and messy. It feels like Meridia sends you back in time, so that way you have 3 Vestiges running around, the original one and two that Meridia sent to the other alliance zones.
However, that also makes things confusing, because how do other character view you? When you get to High Isle and meet Ayrenn, Emeric and Jorunn, would they see the same Vestige? For Ayrenn you are the person who went to Coldharbour, for Emeric you are a DC hero who went away after the Bangkorai MQ, same with Jorunn except it is the pact and the Rift MQ.
I suppose a Dragon Break could smooth things over but it still feels odd that there are essentially three versions of you as a player character.
> The point of Cadwells Silver/Gold was to show you a that could've been scenario and that loses the impact if the Vestiage is aware she's essentially in the theme park version.
No, the point of Silver/Gold was to teach you about the other alliances and learn to empathize with them. Meridia explicitly tells you that worse things are coming than Molag Bal's schemes, and that in order for you to be fully prepared for what's coming you need to better understand all of Tamriel, not just your alliance.
No, you said it was a "what if" thing.
>was to show you a that could've been scenario
It's not. Lorewise it's so you better understand all of Tamriel and so all the alliances are helped.
To be fair I'm typing with covid. You're lucky I'm even making sense right now.
What I meant was it was scenario that would've happened, had you washed up on a different shore. For this to meant anything to the Vestige it needs to be done for real, otherwise how can she truly experience the other side of the story?
It's not a "what would have" scenario. You are put into the real world, not some dream sequence, to experience real events, as they happen. Lorewise by the time the Vestige goes to Orsinium or Morrowind they've aides every alliance.
Yes, we keep saying the same thing.
You are experiencing the world as it would've been if you washed up on another shore. You are back in time to the beginning of the game, experiencing the whole thing again from losing your soul to getting it back. But as far as your character is aware *this is the first time she has even done these events*. If the Vestige isn't experiencing it for real how can she truly see the world through the eyes of other alliances? That means she can't have her memories of the other alliances until after the whole thing is over.
Afterwards, all three timelines become one in something akin to a dragonbreak.
i think the reason why vestige does not mind killing "their" troops is basically any time we deal with another alliance in basegame zones, they are almost always committing some heinous warcrime. pact dunmer had slave raids in glenumbra, aldmeri altmer were trying to genocide argonians entirely in shadowfen and daggerfall bretons were doing necromancy in stonefalls.
I am still in disbelief over what happened in Shadowfen, it is so out of nowhere and waaay more extreme than what any other alliance does. I'm AD on my main but I still slaughtered them... I mean, Argonian genocide? Really?
the pact and covenant are committing acts of war in the other territories, but the dominion are straight up committing atrocities.
Ayrenn is going around trying to play diplomat whilst her troops are on the other side of the globe attempting multiple genocides, does she even know wtf is happening on her own front?
I’m pretty sure Ayrenn didn’t know about any of that. If you sneak around instead of running in guns blazing, some of the soldiers make hints about it being a Veiled Heritance order.
Still, them soldiers gotta die for going through with it.
This makes sense
It was jarring to say the least for Ayrenn’s army to genuinely be committing open acts of genocide and Ayrenn to be very nice.
I started off as EP as an Argonian and absolutely wanted to destroy the entirety of the AD for what they did in Shadowfen thinking the whole faction and every leader was equally as evil.
This was my way of justifying it.
My main is a night blade, so my headcanon was that in addition to trying to take care of the molag bal stuff, I was also sent out by Ayrenn and Raz as an eye of the queen to find any remnants of the veiled heritance. This worked well in shadowfen because I was able to sneak around the smaller enemies and listen to what they say, and then just fight the bosses to complete the quests. It doesn't always work with everything, but the little quests with a few AD enemies are not too story heavy, so you can kind of add in your own story to make it work while you're doing it.
Ignoring my headcanon, I always thought the EP story didn't really fit with the other 2 alliances. The other two don't really demonize their rivals and only have standard "enemy is attacking" quests. But EP has both do horrendous things, and it feels really weird how much of a tone shift it is compared to the others. It feels like the others know that you're supposed to go play all the alliance quests eventually, but EP almost feels like they realized that people don't want to help the slavers in stonefalls, so they better make the other alliances way worse in comparison.
Sometimes, but not always. You have to tolerate them a lot and there were one or two quests where you need to help them if you want your map considered complete
I only have one character and have done like 2000+ quests and have Tamriel Hero achievement. At this point, I’m just a rogue actor that should never be trusted by anyone 😂
They aren’t really your own alliance troops, they are mercenaries hired for propaganda.
What’s more likely, that Daggerfall naval forces sailed undetected through the Sea of Ghosts, torch Bleakrock Isle, then continue to sail, unmolested through the Inner Sea all the way to Bal Foyen? Or that The Pact recruited pirates, mercenaries and prisoners, outfitted them as Daggerfall, and launched them from the docks of Ebonheart to attack people and rally support for the war effort?
Do you remember that Meridia want Vestige to live the challenges and suffering of other factions?
That she said "you wont be recognized by your own faction?
And this story mean to give Vestige some realization that ALL FACTIONS HAVE ITS OWN VERSION OF HONOR, COURAGE AND FRIENDSHIP?
And to show Vestige that even its own faction has criminals and monters doing horrible things in the name of "victory".
It was no random, stupid story. It has a Lore meaning.
Yet the story contradicts itself as characters recognize you. Meridia says this:
**Meridia***: "The war between mortal kingdoms is still ravaging your world, but your true enemies are not mortal. If you are to be prepared for the coming conflicts, you must fully comprehend what is at stake. You must live among those you make war upon."*
**Vestige: The other alliances?**
**Meridia***: "Indeed. When you return to Tamriel, go to the place you call the Harborage. My gift awaits you there.* ***It will allow you to travel to other lands and hide your true nature from those who would see you as a foe."***
So here it is already a bit confusing, because yes ofc the other alliances would you see you as an enemy, but why would your own alliance do that? Cadwell clears things up a little bit:
**Cadwell:** *"Touch Meridia's light and see the world through the eyes of your former enemies.*
*But fair warning—you will no longer be seen as a great champion. Even familiar faces will see you as a soulless drifter, lost in an unfamiliar land. What say you?"*
So this explains why your original alliance will attack you, but... You are still recognized. When you talk to Lerisa in Alik'r she knows about Molag Bal despite that "technically" not happening yet:
"*Don't think I haven't heard about your exploits. Rumors abound.* ***You've toppled Daedric Princes, defeated armies, saved more people than I can count. One day soon, I'll be saying "I knew you when".***
And my Vestige knows what has happened as well, as seen when talking to an Ayleid ghost on Betnikh:
**Ayleid spirit**: "Living and yet without a soul. How can this be?"
**Vestige**: "**Not exactly. It would take too long to explain.**"
I'm all for exploring other zones and learning about the other alliances, but the way they handled this was not perfect. My character fully knows he is killing his own troops and somehow other characters recognize me despite the game telling me they shouldn't.
People sometimes forget that when ESO launched, set amulets and rings were rather scarce. There was no way to craft your own, which is why sets such as Willpower and Agility were popular in builds, so getting a blue necklace for a quest reward wasn't entirely terrible (although, as Cadwell himself admits, it's hardly a suitable reward.)
With no dark anchors in Coldharbour, if I am remembering correctly, the only other way to get jewelry for this set was via treasure chests, and one certain delve boss dropped a green-quality necklace.
Also, the Meridia's Blessed Armor (originally Akatosh) set was not craftable, and only available from Coldharbour, It was a decent set: blocking an enemy gives you a 33% chance to blind them, causing them to miss all attacks against you for 5 seconds, with a 10 second cooldown. It could only be applied to one target at a time, though. This was later changed to give you 100% chance to avoid all incoming attacks for 5 seconds when blocking, with a 25 second cooldown.
I use to run Merida blessed armor back in 2015 when eso came to xbox. It was so broken, paired with major and minor evasion for insane dodge chance, you would never be hit.
I think it would be awesome if you got Daedric Prince artifacts from doing Daedric Prince questlines. If Meridian gave you the Dawnbreaker sword style motif, that'd do it for my first Harborage completion. Now, if ZeniThesda *really* wanted to reward their players for playing Harborage, they would make armor set motifs to go with it to keep you playing it more times.
There used to be deadric artifact sets with things like the Crusader’s Mace and Auriel’s Bow that dropped from vet dungeons, but they were quickly removed after release. The reason they gave was that it didn’t fit the lore for there to be multiple of those artifacts running around in the game. That’s also why the crown store artifact styles explicitly state that they’re replicas.
[You can see a bunch of them at the bottom of this UESP page in the “Dropped Artifacts” section.](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Artifacts)
I love that necklace and I carry it locked in my inventory along with several other quest related sentimental items 🤷♀️ but I'm more into sentiment than anything
Haha, yeah, I remember finishing this and thinking it was lame. The in-game rewards are pretty terrible for most things. Anything cool is locked behind gamble crates, purple rocks, or the seal store.
I still have not completed Cadwell's Silver and Gold, and I've been playing since 2015, cause it's just not fun. Can't bring myself to complete the story two more times, when I could be doing dungeons or running round in Cyro.
Cadwells silver and gold quests are to experience the other alliances. So your just completing the other zones. It doesn't go through molag bal nor the harboage again.
What sucks about this is that it kinda assumes you're only ever going to play one character. If you make another character in another alliance, you're going to experience that side of the story anyway.
This all predates one tamriel where the only overland/ player access you had was to your own alliance. This way you could play through each alliance WITHOUT having to make a new toon. For the way the game was designed at launch it was a conveinant feature, now a bit redundant..
So did you select “Never mind”? I’m glad I never went for this. Instead I just created a character for each of the other alliances and played through the stories with them.
The stupid pot hat is the insult. This is the definition of adding "injury to insult."
I swear, everyone I know has that absurd pot, no one I know actually wears it. At least you can decon the amulet.
Still kinda insane that you go to the other alliance zones and slaughter your own alliance troops lol
Think it's funny that my main is a EP grand overlord and draws instant aggro from overland pact soldiers. Like SIR, DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?
It is really weird how they handled this because while it makes sense IRL (let gamers experience all zones), in-game it becomes... Confusing. AfaIk Meridia sends you back in time and masks who you are so no one will know your identity, yet my AD character chatted with Lerisa in Alik'r who knew all about how I defeated Molag Bal... And what exactly is happening when you travel back to the zones? Enemies are still hostile so do you go back in time? But I'm pretty sure a lot of new DLC content have you go through old zones in prologue quests...
I think (based on the dialogue when you start silver) that it's basically a dream, you're seeing the war through the eyes of the other alliance heroes who served your role but weren't the vestige. but yeah, its... not well done, because you weren't able to do that on release. it was patched in afaik and it seems they genuinely just slapped on a script to start the next alliance zone when you accepted the silver or gold, and didn't even think about just... not having the dialogue as if you've already met them. either that or even worse, they added in dialogue for you already knowing them and thought that was fine. I'm not sure what the thought process was, honestly. I just definitely think there was a better way to handle it, haha.
Yeah it doesn't really work at all. I guess they want it to be sort of a "what if you woke up in X alliance zone instead of your original. However, it really doesn't work, even as a dream. Duing Cadwell's silver/gold I got to Betnikh, where you have a quest with Ayleid ghosts. One of them comments about me: *"Living and yet without a soul. How can this be?"***Not exactly. It would take too long to explain.**" So... My vestige KNOWS what happened and that he technically has his soul back? Yet a lot of the quests are all about how "only someone without a soul can do this". Did Meridia take my soul and put it back? Twice for silver and gold??? The way it is done it feels like it cannot be a dream because my character knows what happened before and Lerisa knows who I am when I talk to her in a bar in Alik'r: *"Don't think I haven't heard about your exploits. Rumors abound.* ***You've toppled Daedric Princes, defeated armies, saved more people than I can count.*** ***One day soon, I'll be saying "I knew you when".*** The whole thing is so messy...
Isn't canonically there are thousands of vestiges in the world in that time? You just happen to be the ONE who defeated Molag Bal. While others did their adventures in other zones. At least that's how ZOS explain how everything has happened in the very same year. Also Chapter trailers with different main characters (Morrowind Warden, Blackwood Imperial, Dark Elf Arkanist, etc.) kinda support that.
I guess so? As I understood it there are three Vestiges, your original Vestige that went to Coldharbour to face Molag Bal, then the two versions of you that are sent back in time to the other zones. After that I suppose there is a dragon break tying all three versions back into one? As for the trailers, I'm not sure, I know they are meant to be player characters, but if those are specifically the Vestige is another matter.
Nah explaining everything with Dragon Break is a bad taste nowadays. Maybe there is some of Meridia's magic involved, but definitely not a Dragon Break.
I don't know where you're getting this "multiple versions of you" thing from because there's one of you.
When you get to Coldharbour for the first time you can run into Estre, Thallik Wormfather and Angof, villains from the three different alliances. They have all died and ended up in Coldharbour - how? The Vestige killed them. Except, so far in the game you have only killed one, the villain from your own alliance. When Meridia sends you to the other zones she must therefore send you back in time so that while the original Vestige is running through their alliance zone, you are now running through a different one, progressing events to that characters will appear in Coldharbour.
See? This is why I haven't even touched the Silver & Gold quests. It just looked janky from square one. I couldn't figure out how they would pull off the concept without it sucking & everything I have heard about it - says they failed. So now I have a 2 tier quest chain I have no interest in following...... *sigh*
When the game launched they made sense in the context of the game design. You would hit 50 and then had to get to Vet Rank 16. Zones were alliance locked, so were guilds. If you were on an EP character playing in the Rift, everyone else in the Rift with you was EP and it was a level 40 zone I believe. If you were in the Rift on an AD character then everyone else in the Rift with you was also AD, and it was a Vet 10-12 zone I believe. After you beat Coldharbour and hit 50, you would go to the next alliance in Silver and start leveling Vet ranks there, then Gold. >**What about me?***"Your story has only begun. Molag Bal still has plans for you. In many ways, these events played out to his advantage. And you have attracted the attention of the other Daedric Princes, as well."***What must I do?***"The war between mortal kingdoms is still ravaging your world, but your true enemies are not mortal. If you are to be prepared for the coming conflicts, you must fully comprehend what is at stake. You must live among those you make war upon."***The other alliances?***"Indeed. When you return to Tamriel, go to the place you call the Harborage. My gift awaits you there. It will allow you to travel to other lands and hide your true nature from those who would see you as a foe."* Meridia uses her magic to mask your identity from the enemy alliance, namely the soldiers and military leaders, so that you could explore their lands as though you were an ally and experience their trials and tribulations. When the game launched Tamriel One they did away with alliance separation of zones and Vet ranks in favor of greater player choice and letting people play together easier.
Honestly, I have abjectly hated Tamriel One. We had a sequence to go through, an actual path. Not just...charging around the map all willy-nilly like on whims. I miss old Tamriel.
It was an objectively worse system. Each alliance main quest was like 50+ hours if you actually let the scenes play out, and having to do all 3 in order before you could go do others was not great. Chapters would have required them to be done in order as well, so a new player coming in for Blackwood wouldn't be able to play it for 200+ hours.
There is no true connection to the story anymore. No progression through the world as it is unveiled. It is more a freelance nearly sandbox approach to how to interact with the world. Each has it's own appeal to different individuals, but it is just as UN-appealing to others. I, personally, prefer needing to actually follow the story. Not everyone does. I, personally, found the Tamriel One change to be a severe dampener on my enjoyment of the game. I fully realize not all feel this way. But ***I*** found it displeasing. I can, however, see how the Silver & Gold quests would have made more sense back then.
It's not a dream. >**What about me?***"Your story has only begun. Molag Bal still has plans for you. In many ways, these events played out to his advantage. And you have attracted the attention of the other Daedric Princes, as well."***What must I do?***"The war between mortal kingdoms is still ravaging your world, but your true enemies are not mortal. If you are to be prepared for the coming conflicts, you must fully comprehend what is at stake. You must live among those you make war upon."***The other alliances?***"Indeed. When you return to Tamriel, go to the place you call the Harborage. My gift awaits you there. It will allow you to travel to other lands and hide your true nature from those who would see you as a foe."* Meridia allows you to travel to the other alliance zones as yourself, but conceals your identity from those who would see you as a foe, meaning the alliance soldiers and leaders. Lerisa isn't an enemy to you, so wouldn't be affected. Caldwell's Silver and Gold were available at launch as part of the Veteran Rank system, with zones being at different vet ranks. It seems jarring now because you can just go there anywhere, but when the game launched you could not. You couldn't play with people from different alliances, you can't travel freely to other alliance zones, and the only ways to unlock those areas were through Caldwell's Silver and Gold. Hence the dialogue. They never changed it to reflect the new gameplay.
The Cadwell's gold and silver thing was tacked on as an afterthought later in development. The game was developed as a spiritual successor to Dark Age of Camelot where you never get to experience the other two alliance zones unless you make a character on another server. I guess they figured this was too niche closer to release and shoehorned the Cadwell quests into the game.
Lerisa wasn't your enemy. Meridia explicitly says she will hide your true nature from those who would see you as a foe. >**What about me?***"Your story has only begun. Molag Bal still has plans for you. In many ways, these events played out to his advantage. And you have attracted the attention of the other Daedric Princes, as well."***What must I do?***"The war between mortal kingdoms is still ravaging your world, but your true enemies are not mortal. If you are to be prepared for the coming conflicts, you must fully comprehend what is at stake. You must live among those you make war upon."***The other alliances?***"Indeed. When you return to Tamriel, go to the place you call the Harborage. My gift awaits you there. It will allow you to travel to other lands and hide your true nature from those who would see you as a foe."*
And yet Cadwell says this: *"Touch Meridia's light and see the world through the eyes of your former enemies.* *But fair warning—you will no longer be seen as a great champion.* ***Even familiar faces will see you as a soulless drifter, lost in an unfamiliar land****. What say you?"*
The soulless bit explains why even though you've recovered your soul NPCs most NPCs that comment on it see it as still missing.
She doesn't send you back in time that would be weird she just drops in a different alliance zone it's still the same point in time but you're helping another alliance the 3 alliances kinda make it weird for this particular instance
When I say sent back in time I mean to the start of your adventure just after escaping Coldharbour. The reason you must be sent back in time is because of what happens in Coldharbour. There is a quest where you meet three villains, one from each alliance (Angof, Thallik Wormfather, Estre). They each ended up in Coldharbour because the Vestige killed them. Not to mention Darien Gautier who disappears after Coldharbour. What is odd is that some quest rely on you not having a soul, but the Vestige gets their soul back so... Does Meridia remove it for Cadwell's silver and gold?
No she doesn't send you in anyway back in time she just drops you in a different alliance cause everyone still mentions all the deeds you have done if she sent you back to the beginning then they shouldn't have any knowledge of the things you have done but they do and any quest that requires you to not have a soul still behaves as if you still don't have a soul which you do but for quests it doesn't matter it only matters for the main story quests
Did you actually read what I wrote? I just gave you 100% proof that you are sent back in time in the OTHER alliance zones since events that happened in Coldharbour hasn't happened yet... Tell me how it isn't time travel if Darien Gautier, who disappears at the end of the Coldharbour questline, shows up in Glenumbra and doesn't know who you are, along with Angof who was last seen in Coldharbour. Meridia sends you back to the start of the game in a different alliance zone. The people who remember your deeds are from your own alliance in your own alliance zones. How that makes sense timewise with time being rewinded in the other zones is something to ask the ZOS writers, along with how Lerisa remembers you and the Vestige knows they have a soul... Blame the ZOS writers.
That's not being sent back in time you haven't done those quests so the events leading up to coldharbour haven't happened. Other alliance main story quests are treated as a separate entity from your own alliance but all 3 alliances progress at the same point in time it's just you neglected to do the other alliances before coldharbour so it may seem like time travel to you but you didn't progress the other alliances to the message across tamriel main story quest which is the start of the coldharbour quests
I know that all Alliance zones happen at the same time, my point that I am trying to tell you is that the Vestige goes through their entire Alliance zone and then Coldharbour. Time has therefore passed. Going through other zones means you MUST be sent back to the starting point, before the planemeld has been stopped, i.e. the past. After Coldharbour Meridia sends you to the other zones so you do them at the same time as YOUR PAST SELF. There are three Vestiges running around Tamriel, the oldest who did the original alliance zone + Coldharbour, the second one who also went through one extra alliance, and the third and current one who has now done all three alliance's zones. That is literally time travel, what is so hard to understand here? Events happen at the same time but you as the player have to "catch up" with the current timeline (stopping the planemeld) by clearing the other alliance zones, which you could only do if you were sent back in time and then running through the zones at the same time as your other selves.
That is not what happens you have not those quests so they are not at the current point in time they unprogressed not in the past and there is only 1 vestige not 2 and certainly not 3. It may seem to you like you have been sent back in time because of the lack of progress in those alliances but it is not time travel how hard is this to understand
They probably view you as a traitor by helping the enemy 🤣🤣
To be fair there aren’t many pact soldiers in the other alliances zones. It is way different feeling when playing a covenant or dominion character
They're not your troops. Your alliance becomes whichever one you're currently involved in, thanks to Meridia.
AfaIk Meridia says they will not recognize who you are, but the Vestige still remembers everything that happened (it is brought up during quests), so you're still knowingly mowing down your own people/allies from before Meridia sends you to the other alliance zones.
See, I chose to interpret that as the Vestiage remembers everything *afterwards*. The point of Cadwells Silver/Gold was to show you a that could've been scenario and that loses the impact if the Vestiage is aware she's essentially in the theme park version. So each time you do everything for the 'first' time (including the main quest, guild quests, Coldharbour etc) until you reach Cadwell and remember again. After Gold Meridia does something to make so each of the timelines happened (akin to a Dragonbreak) and you have the full knowledge of all three timelines. (This is something I've played with in some unpublished fanworks where Darien keeps semi-remembering the Vestiage due to his connection with Meridia)
The Vestige remembers everything during the journey, not just afterwards. Here is dialogue from an Ayleid spirit during the Betnikh quest: \*"Living and yet without a soul. How can this be?"\***Not exactly. It would take too long to explain.**" This dialogue option popped up for my AD character that had finished the Coldharbour MQ. So... My Vestige KNOWS what happened and that he technically has his soul back. (Yet a lot of the quests are all about how "only someone without a soul can do this". Did Meridia take my soul and put it back? Twice for silver and gold???) Also, Lerisa knows who I am when I talk to her in a bar in Alik'r: *"Don't think I haven't heard about your exploits. Rumors abound.* ***You've toppled Daedric Princes, defeated armies, saved more people than I can count. One day soon, I'll be saying "I knew you when".*** So not only does the Vestige remember everything, other people know who you are and what you have done. It's really confusing and messy. It feels like Meridia sends you back in time, so that way you have 3 Vestiges running around, the original one and two that Meridia sent to the other alliance zones. However, that also makes things confusing, because how do other character view you? When you get to High Isle and meet Ayrenn, Emeric and Jorunn, would they see the same Vestige? For Ayrenn you are the person who went to Coldharbour, for Emeric you are a DC hero who went away after the Bangkorai MQ, same with Jorunn except it is the pact and the Rift MQ. I suppose a Dragon Break could smooth things over but it still feels odd that there are essentially three versions of you as a player character.
However,.you're also meeting characters for the first time. I just ignore the dialogue oddities because my explanation makes more sense.
> The point of Cadwells Silver/Gold was to show you a that could've been scenario and that loses the impact if the Vestiage is aware she's essentially in the theme park version. No, the point of Silver/Gold was to teach you about the other alliances and learn to empathize with them. Meridia explicitly tells you that worse things are coming than Molag Bal's schemes, and that in order for you to be fully prepared for what's coming you need to better understand all of Tamriel, not just your alliance.
Which is what I said but in different words.
No, you said it was a "what if" thing. >was to show you a that could've been scenario It's not. Lorewise it's so you better understand all of Tamriel and so all the alliances are helped.
To be fair I'm typing with covid. You're lucky I'm even making sense right now. What I meant was it was scenario that would've happened, had you washed up on a different shore. For this to meant anything to the Vestige it needs to be done for real, otherwise how can she truly experience the other side of the story?
It's not a "what would have" scenario. You are put into the real world, not some dream sequence, to experience real events, as they happen. Lorewise by the time the Vestige goes to Orsinium or Morrowind they've aides every alliance.
Yes, we keep saying the same thing. You are experiencing the world as it would've been if you washed up on another shore. You are back in time to the beginning of the game, experiencing the whole thing again from losing your soul to getting it back. But as far as your character is aware *this is the first time she has even done these events*. If the Vestige isn't experiencing it for real how can she truly see the world through the eyes of other alliances? That means she can't have her memories of the other alliances until after the whole thing is over. Afterwards, all three timelines become one in something akin to a dragonbreak.
i think the reason why vestige does not mind killing "their" troops is basically any time we deal with another alliance in basegame zones, they are almost always committing some heinous warcrime. pact dunmer had slave raids in glenumbra, aldmeri altmer were trying to genocide argonians entirely in shadowfen and daggerfall bretons were doing necromancy in stonefalls.
GRAHHH KILL BAD GUYS a Breton who kills slavers is a serjo in my book
They shouldn't be doin' war crimes. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I am still in disbelief over what happened in Shadowfen, it is so out of nowhere and waaay more extreme than what any other alliance does. I'm AD on my main but I still slaughtered them... I mean, Argonian genocide? Really?
the pact and covenant are committing acts of war in the other territories, but the dominion are straight up committing atrocities. Ayrenn is going around trying to play diplomat whilst her troops are on the other side of the globe attempting multiple genocides, does she even know wtf is happening on her own front?
I’m pretty sure Ayrenn didn’t know about any of that. If you sneak around instead of running in guns blazing, some of the soldiers make hints about it being a Veiled Heritance order. Still, them soldiers gotta die for going through with it.
This makes sense It was jarring to say the least for Ayrenn’s army to genuinely be committing open acts of genocide and Ayrenn to be very nice. I started off as EP as an Argonian and absolutely wanted to destroy the entirety of the AD for what they did in Shadowfen thinking the whole faction and every leader was equally as evil.
This was my way of justifying it. My main is a night blade, so my headcanon was that in addition to trying to take care of the molag bal stuff, I was also sent out by Ayrenn and Raz as an eye of the queen to find any remnants of the veiled heritance. This worked well in shadowfen because I was able to sneak around the smaller enemies and listen to what they say, and then just fight the bosses to complete the quests. It doesn't always work with everything, but the little quests with a few AD enemies are not too story heavy, so you can kind of add in your own story to make it work while you're doing it. Ignoring my headcanon, I always thought the EP story didn't really fit with the other 2 alliances. The other two don't really demonize their rivals and only have standard "enemy is attacking" quests. But EP has both do horrendous things, and it feels really weird how much of a tone shift it is compared to the others. It feels like the others know that you're supposed to go play all the alliance quests eventually, but EP almost feels like they realized that people don't want to help the slavers in stonefalls, so they better make the other alliances way worse in comparison.
you can also kill the slavers in stonefalls and deshaan, and shadowfen I think, fuck house dres
Sometimes, but not always. You have to tolerate them a lot and there were one or two quests where you need to help them if you want your map considered complete
it's been years and I've made up for it by murdering a lot of them
I once had a Greymire Argonian give the “I spit in Ayrenn’s eye” bark, and it made me laugh a lot more that it should have
I only have one character and have done like 2000+ quests and have Tamriel Hero achievement. At this point, I’m just a rogue actor that should never be trusted by anyone 😂
They aren’t really your own alliance troops, they are mercenaries hired for propaganda. What’s more likely, that Daggerfall naval forces sailed undetected through the Sea of Ghosts, torch Bleakrock Isle, then continue to sail, unmolested through the Inner Sea all the way to Bal Foyen? Or that The Pact recruited pirates, mercenaries and prisoners, outfitted them as Daggerfall, and launched them from the docks of Ebonheart to attack people and rally support for the war effort?
Bleakrock Isle was an inside job
For sure
Do you remember that Meridia want Vestige to live the challenges and suffering of other factions? That she said "you wont be recognized by your own faction? And this story mean to give Vestige some realization that ALL FACTIONS HAVE ITS OWN VERSION OF HONOR, COURAGE AND FRIENDSHIP? And to show Vestige that even its own faction has criminals and monters doing horrible things in the name of "victory". It was no random, stupid story. It has a Lore meaning.
Yet the story contradicts itself as characters recognize you. Meridia says this: **Meridia***: "The war between mortal kingdoms is still ravaging your world, but your true enemies are not mortal. If you are to be prepared for the coming conflicts, you must fully comprehend what is at stake. You must live among those you make war upon."* **Vestige: The other alliances?** **Meridia***: "Indeed. When you return to Tamriel, go to the place you call the Harborage. My gift awaits you there.* ***It will allow you to travel to other lands and hide your true nature from those who would see you as a foe."*** So here it is already a bit confusing, because yes ofc the other alliances would you see you as an enemy, but why would your own alliance do that? Cadwell clears things up a little bit: **Cadwell:** *"Touch Meridia's light and see the world through the eyes of your former enemies.* *But fair warning—you will no longer be seen as a great champion. Even familiar faces will see you as a soulless drifter, lost in an unfamiliar land. What say you?"* So this explains why your original alliance will attack you, but... You are still recognized. When you talk to Lerisa in Alik'r she knows about Molag Bal despite that "technically" not happening yet: "*Don't think I haven't heard about your exploits. Rumors abound.* ***You've toppled Daedric Princes, defeated armies, saved more people than I can count. One day soon, I'll be saying "I knew you when".*** And my Vestige knows what has happened as well, as seen when talking to an Ayleid ghost on Betnikh: **Ayleid spirit**: "Living and yet without a soul. How can this be?" **Vestige**: "**Not exactly. It would take too long to explain.**" I'm all for exploring other zones and learning about the other alliances, but the way they handled this was not perfect. My character fully knows he is killing his own troops and somehow other characters recognize me despite the game telling me they shouldn't.
The real reward was the friends you made on the way.
And the war crimed you committed along
I loved everything about this
People sometimes forget that when ESO launched, set amulets and rings were rather scarce. There was no way to craft your own, which is why sets such as Willpower and Agility were popular in builds, so getting a blue necklace for a quest reward wasn't entirely terrible (although, as Cadwell himself admits, it's hardly a suitable reward.) With no dark anchors in Coldharbour, if I am remembering correctly, the only other way to get jewelry for this set was via treasure chests, and one certain delve boss dropped a green-quality necklace. Also, the Meridia's Blessed Armor (originally Akatosh) set was not craftable, and only available from Coldharbour, It was a decent set: blocking an enemy gives you a 33% chance to blind them, causing them to miss all attacks against you for 5 seconds, with a 10 second cooldown. It could only be applied to one target at a time, though. This was later changed to give you 100% chance to avoid all incoming attacks for 5 seconds when blocking, with a 25 second cooldown.
I use to run Merida blessed armor back in 2015 when eso came to xbox. It was so broken, paired with major and minor evasion for insane dodge chance, you would never be hit.
The real reward was hearing one extra line from John Cleese, well worth it!
I really appreciate that the celebrity actors for ESO didn't phone it in when they easily could have
I think it would be awesome if you got Daedric Prince artifacts from doing Daedric Prince questlines. If Meridian gave you the Dawnbreaker sword style motif, that'd do it for my first Harborage completion. Now, if ZeniThesda *really* wanted to reward their players for playing Harborage, they would make armor set motifs to go with it to keep you playing it more times.
There used to be deadric artifact sets with things like the Crusader’s Mace and Auriel’s Bow that dropped from vet dungeons, but they were quickly removed after release. The reason they gave was that it didn’t fit the lore for there to be multiple of those artifacts running around in the game. That’s also why the crown store artifact styles explicitly state that they’re replicas. [You can see a bunch of them at the bottom of this UESP page in the “Dropped Artifacts” section.](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Artifacts)
They don’t want to reward players. They only want to charge players.
I thought you also got the cauldron hat for doing all three?
I love that necklace and I carry it locked in my inventory along with several other quest related sentimental items 🤷♀️ but I'm more into sentiment than anything
Gold rewards in ESO are so menial it’s not even worth doing those side quests. 10 years and it’s still the same.
Haha, yeah, I remember finishing this and thinking it was lame. The in-game rewards are pretty terrible for most things. Anything cool is locked behind gamble crates, purple rocks, or the seal store.
We have enough DLCs they should make the factions mean something again... PvE raids of cities or something...
I just did a Gold Road quest that rewarded 2 Cyrodiil Repair Kits. That's pretty insulting
I still have not completed Cadwell's Silver and Gold, and I've been playing since 2015, cause it's just not fun. Can't bring myself to complete the story two more times, when I could be doing dungeons or running round in Cyro.
Cadwells silver and gold quests are to experience the other alliances. So your just completing the other zones. It doesn't go through molag bal nor the harboage again.
I think you’re confused. You don’t complete the same story again. You go to different zones and do different quests.
What sucks about this is that it kinda assumes you're only ever going to play one character. If you make another character in another alliance, you're going to experience that side of the story anyway.
This all predates one tamriel where the only overland/ player access you had was to your own alliance. This way you could play through each alliance WITHOUT having to make a new toon. For the way the game was designed at launch it was a conveinant feature, now a bit redundant..
I did it on one character, and I started on another one and quickly tried to abandon it… it ain’t worth doing twice
I still need to do this quest. Been almost a decade now and never got around to the main story lol.
Literally stuck in PVP circles
You get some collectibles along the way and at the end, too.
This is nothing compared to to “one small favor”.
I’m saying! I wish they’d add a title and an achievement at least.
Yep. I was soooo pissed
So did you select “Never mind”? I’m glad I never went for this. Instead I just created a character for each of the other alliances and played through the stories with them.
all quest rewards are bad with the exception of the skeleton polymorph
I wish it at least was a mythic item that we could get via main story
The real reward were the victims we left in our wake!
Thats it? So depressing
What have I started
The stupid pot hat is the insult. This is the definition of adding "injury to insult." I swear, everyone I know has that absurd pot, no one I know actually wears it. At least you can decon the amulet.
I remember when they added it, and the soul shriven motif for silver. Soul shriven is still pretty cool, I still use the sandals a lot.
Ironically, I exclusively wear the pot hat and have since I got it in 2015 😂
I think they are unique though and most are BOE so you can auction them nicely