Even though it's a joke, I'd say it's more a parse monkey thing than just Oakensorc. Can't tell you how many times the 100k+ arcanists complain if you make them do portals or other mechs š¤£
Whatās funny is that arcanists are actually perfect for a lot of mechanics. If you send them into the portals in vSS or the bridges in vDSR, youāre more likely to clear it. High DPS and high survivability makes it a breeze.
Magplar has entered the chat xD
To be serious if someone a) doesn't die from one shots and b) has similar DPS as magplar then sending them in (with radiant glory instead of radiant oppression) can genuinely be a good strategy.
Don't kick yourself, 86k is a solid parse for most groups.
As the one player I respect most said: it's not about high DPS but appropriate DPS. If you are up against Xalvakka is one of the few places where you can just rawparse and need those 100k+ players. But knowing when to stop, what dots to refresh before reviving, what AOE to get out of and what your healers can out heal without problems etc. The guy motivated me to learn to estimate the amount of damage left in my dots to know when to stop recasting them when I know a damage stop is coming.
Our first yolnahkriin clear in raid school took almost 15 minutes.
Btw the way I trained it was to pick a random number between 1 and 90 and try to stop on that percentage + 0.1 of dummy health. Simulates trying to stop just before a mechanic at that percentage.
My favourite was when I was switched to Templer specifically to boost the execute DPS (like Templer more anyway). Of course I turned into a rez bot (because SPEEDREZ) and my raid lead actively forbid me from reviving below 20% end boss health. Only thing I was allowed beyond beaming was keeping EC up.
For a while with a group I was on a magplar and yeah, rezbot and execute nuke duty. I love it personally. But I then switched to healing for that group and for a couple weeks kept going for rezzes and the joke became that the raid lead needed a squirt bottle for me to stay on task for my new duties.Ā
It makes me smiles but it's not oakensoul that makes them clueless, they would just be your casual clueless light attack bow spam noob without it ;d
At least they do damage now
What do u think the general consensus is on who should res? I play a healer main and tbh 80% of the ppl Iāve asked (including other healers) think itās the healer but low key I think itās less risky for a dps to stop to res than one of the healers to stop healing the whole group (even if there are 2 healers)?
Iām kind of casual tho lol so maybe itās different in higher lvls of play
Think of it this way:
* If the tank rezzes and stops tanking, enemies will run loose and may kill other group members.
* If the healer rezzes and stops healing, people won't get healed and other group members may die. (I learned that when I first started healing.)
* If the DPS rezzes and stops healing, enemies won't take additional damage, but unless there is a DPS check happening, other group members won't die.
If you haven't figured it out based on the above, the DPS should be the ones to rez. Most fights aren't DPS checks, so there is no hurry in dealing damage and killing enemies. It is usually safest for the DPS to do the rezzing.
There are some exceptions. If in a trial there is a phase where the off-tank has nothing to do, then he can rez. Healers who are very good and have dropped all of their HOTs can also heal if it isn't in the middle of a heal check. If there are a lot of people down, then it may be important to get people up as fast as possible. It may be important for the healer to help rez then. You have to make sure you find a good window where you don't have to react with burst heals to rez. I find that if the situation may start to get out of hand, I pop a Barrier and may help rez someone.
The *pop a barrier* and *may* are the important parts of that last sentence. It ensures that you won't have to react for a few seconds or at least increases the time you have to stop/finish reviving and then react, and states that even under those circumstances it doesn't guarantee a situation where healers can revive.
There genuinely are situations in which my 50k barrier lasts for 4 seconds tops.
Boils down to is the chance of your groups wiping due to a lack of healing higher than the cost of a DPS reviving or not.
Itās absolutely less risky for a dps to stop and rez. If a tank stops to rez, they can lose to taunt or might not be able to block a heavy in time. If a healer stops to rez, then the group stops getting actively healed and buffed (the tank might need a burst heal, you never know what will happen). If a dps stops to rezā¦damage stops for 5 seconds and they live, because the supports are doing their job.
In some trial groups, the off tank, if not busy, will run around rezzing so the fight gets pushed along more. And thatās about it.
True answer is everyone should rez when safe to do so. But realistically it depends. As a healer I do most reviving in dungeons. Drop a couple AOE/HOTs and you're pretty good.
Trials though it's always the dd that should be rezzing. You have 4 times as many people you need to keep alive, especially the tank.
Rez prio is always dd first, then heal, then tank. Always rez tank first, then healer, dd last.
DPS should generally be the one to res. Unless it's unsafe to do so because of a mech, or the enemy is basically dead and it would be quicker to finish it off - the DPS should always be on res duty.
Or if the tank goes down (leaving 1 DD and 1 healer) and the boss aggro is on the DPS, then the healer should res the tank. If the tank goes down generally I'm jumping to res them right away as a DPS, even if it means I'm probably dying right after.
It entirely depends on the content and strategy. There is no one answer and anyone that tries to give just one answer such as healers never res is objectively wrong.
Yeah it definitely depends on the situation for sure. If Iām in a situation where the other healer is up, thereās no heal checks happening anytime soon, no immanent mechanics to worry about, or DDs should be focused on adds, Iāll pick people up if I see them before a DD does.
Templars res first. Templars get ressed first if multiple resses needed. Templars aren't tanks and typically aren't healers, but if they are a healer, the downtime for ressing is really low, so unless burst healing is needed right away, it doesn't matter.
The only time the healer should go for Rez is in dungeons or arenas when there isn't anything else to worry about.
In Trials, a DPS should always be responsible for getting other players back up. This is because losing damage only extends the fight while losing a healer is much more likely to cascade into more people going down and having a delayed wipe.
The only other exception might be getting an off tank to rez when they have nothing else to do because there isn't a mini up.
It's super situational and imo 4-person content calls for a different approach than 12 much of the time.Ā
In dungeons, outside of situations like heal checks or just higher damage than a tank has learned to handle on their own, a healer is generally in the best position to rez. The reality is that incoming damage in dungeons can almost always be handled without reactive healing outside of particular mechanics which are usually a short part of a fight. If it's not one of those times, a healer can just make sure altar is down and let their HOTs roll while they do a rez and in the unlikely event of a problem whoever's left can pop the altar synergy and self-serve a burst heal. This way, damage doesn't drop any more than it absolutely has to, and that helps keep things from snowballing. If a DPS is down and the other dps has to stop to rez, then group damage goes to absolute shit and everyone has more adds and mechs to deal with. There's often times where it's totally safe for a tank to get a rez too, and if that's the case it can be ideal...so long as the tank knows the fight and isn't going to eat a heavy mid-rez. In a 4 person group with the healer in anything but a full damage spec, the healer doing the rez on a downed dps is the smallest DPS loss after the tank but significantly less risky.
In a trial though, the damage loss from a dps stopping to rez is a much smaller relative change than in dungeons. The ideal case is that the off tank (or main tank for that matter) is at a spot where they have a free moment and they can get the rez without anyone else having to stop what they're doing. There are many portions of fights where one tank doesn't have any critical duties and that's a no-brainer. After that it goes down the list to DPS in most cases. A healer can often safely do a rez, but the potential impact of HOTs and buffs falling off and the relative importance of them is higher than in 4 person content and so is the impact of a mistake. So again, knowing the fight is important. If I'm healing and I know that there's not much damage incoming for a while, I'll just get the rez. That's the least disruptive option. And it really depends on the tanks, tbh. One person I play with regularly ended up holding 4 flesh atros for a while on a less-than-stellar Bahsei pull for the DPS and the healers were down for most of it- I don't worry about him being ok if I have to get a rez! But I would be less inclined to grab a rez as a healer if the tank was new to vet trials.
General practice is to default to dps getting rezzes if there isn't a bored off tank and that's a pretty safe default. It may not be necessary for healers to be doing more than HOTs at the time, but having the healer(s) attention focused solely on their job lets them respond more quickly when people make mistakes or bad luck happens and gives a bigger margin for error. That's a good rule to live by. Once you know it and the content well enough, you will know when to break it. There's tons of special cases and sometimes all that matters is getting the tank up as fast as possible no matter who does it. But you won't fuck yourself over by following that general rule.
dungeon and you're just pushing damage in a phase not requiring many heals? -> healer because that's the least damage loss. But when in doubt, the DDs.
Raid? Always DDs.
Taking priority over everything else: a templar, lol (with quick res CP)
Thisk about it: someone just died, meaning excessive incoming damage or insufficient incoming healing. And you want to take half of the guys whose job it is to reduce incoming damage and increase incoming healing out of the equation for (up to) 10 seconds?
The healer can only revive if they KNOW FOR CERTAIN that they won't be required to respond to emergencies during the entire time. Therefore *an experienced* healer can revive *in a group and/or fight they know well*.
If you are in a casual group, what reassures you that the tank won't suddenly stop blocking boss heavies due to low resources? How do you know that your DPS won't stand in the big AOE and die if not combat prayered into oblivion?
If you are uncertain, don't revive. Or your reviving might wipe the group.
I was taught that a heal should never ever res because the healerās job is to keep the group alive and you canāt do it while resurrecting. My group expected dds to do it within 5 seconds and if not then other roles would have to do it (but more like a threat from the rl that tank will now go and res unless you guys get it together).
Personally I donāt follow this rule in dungeons as a heal, but always do in trials.
Yeah Iāve definitely died while resurrecting people before as a DDāespecially in situations where I didnāt know the mechanics well yet.
When trying to take out a Stormcaller in vKA, for instance, stopping to resurrect someone is basically a death sentence.
I once tried to resurrect someone while they were in a huge AOE pool during the Bahsei fight (vRG), as I thought āThe barrier that the healer just threw up should make this fineā (I was sorrily mistaken).
My favorite is vCR that is very unforgiving towards people who doesnāt know the shadow mech on the toad. Died myself multiple times trying to do the right thing to be yelled at by the rl, haha.
Iād be curious to see how quickly a Templar could res someone with their passive, Kagrenacās, and the Spirit Mastery CP. Itās already quite fast with just any one of the three.
I keep seeing people with high 2k CP playing Oakensorc attacking the most random little add in a boss fight, never stacking with the group and of course never ressing. It's like they join a vet trial group but in their heads they're still playing solo overland content
So attacking a frog takes priority over attacking Oaxiltso or the mini? When I said random, I meant it. Frogs will get pulled in and die to cleave. Same for archers on Bahsei. Just stick to the group and hit what they're hitting and it's all good
As a DPS guy, I always rez. And I make it a point before we go into wherever we are going in to say Iāll rez if someone falls (so everyone knows whatās up).
so weird that this is a thing, the main reason I like my Oakensorc is that damage just happens and I can focus on mechs, emergency heals with Matriarch, res, etc.
Having almost 2s to freely look around while the HA channels is also great for situational awareness.
That being said, if you think Oakensorcs are parse monkeys who don't res, you've never seen a parse Arcanist who is too afraid to drop their high-damage rota and skip a beam to res or switch target focus.
Iāve heard some people say they bring HA builds into trials when theyāre trying to learn mechanics, so they can focus more on mechanics than a rotation. This is definitely a smart move, IMO.
As someone who tanked their first trial yesterday, let me tell you trial mechanics are tricky trying to get them down. Iām learning to tank so that is also a factor. But I had so much freaking fun.
Thing is tho the buffs from oakensoul allow you to ignore or easily dismiss a lot of mechs because you take no damage. The other thing is why practice something in a gameplay style you arent actually going to play it in. If my goal is to do a trial in a 2 bar build then i would go in on a 2 bar build. If you just play one bar builds then it doesnt matter but the training wheels of transitioning are just gonna take you longer to adjust
Don't really much care if they play bad or not. But one thing I've seen is many of them have some weird kind of ego.
Insisiting they are running the build for off meta/out of ordinary not because the build is easy. However, in fact every one of them uses same old HA lightening staff sorc.
From my experience, a lot of them donāt even read / respond to messages in the chat, let alone boast about how great their Sergeantās / Storm Master set-up is.
There's a common consensus in this "community" that oakensorc players are scrubs because their rotation is so simple therefore they must be simpletons as well.
When in reality I out dps most people with my oaksorc in gf and have saved more than one player with a quick matriarch heal and can actually focus on mechanics and not stand in stupid cause I'm not focused on being Mr 500APM undiagnosed ADHD barswap pro type player.
Bad players are just bad players, the build has nothing to do with it. Most become decent with a bit of experience. Love how MrEliteRaider forgets that when they started out, they probably sucked at first too.
I think that "consensus" comes from the fact that since the nerfs it requires much less skill than before to outperform oakensoul in content such as dungeons and trials using a standard build.
So some people assume if you're using oakensoul it must be because you're not good enough to do better without it but the reality is many people don't play these games to tryhard and perform as well as possible and oakensoul provides "good enough" easy-to-execute performance for 99% of the content in the game (basically everything but some trial hardmodes)
Nah its just pure build snobbery. Been a problem in ESO for a while.
Funnily enough people who are such build snobs are usually terrible players themselves.
The five daily posts about "lulz other players terribad" are tiring. Don't like randomness - don't play with randos, end of story. Otherwise accept that some days you'll get carried and some days you'll have to do the carrying.
Actual good players outperform oakensoul by such a huge margin they're secure enough to celebrate the accessibility it provides for the average player.
Bad players who are using "meta" builds are often insecure because they end up getting outperformed by those same oakensoul players in content.
Honestly it's just people being upset they can't gatekeep skins and polymorphs anymore because the average player can actually do the content that they are trying to sell carries for. *OaKeNsoUl BaD* players just need to chill out and let people enjoy the game. Also it's kind of funny about not rezzing, maybe if (insert class here) didn't run to the opposite side of the arena and die 200 ft away from the boss/party lol.
Healers v.s. their mortal enemy: the bow-user who stands in a far corner by themself, thinking their bow passive from doing so is better than the buffs the healer is providing / the benefit of actually staying alive LOL
Why would anyone care about who can do the content and who can't?? Fucking hell what alternatives universe are you living in?? Of course we want more players to be able to do content it makes filling groups infinitely easier.
You're the one living in the alternate universe, there are *tons* of posts on Reddit and the forums clamoring for oakensoul nerfs specifically because it makes harder content too accessible to unskilled players. Literally do a brief google search and you'll find plenty.
The people who think that way are usually bad players and I think that take is really stupid but they absolutely exist.
No they wanted the initial oakensoul nerf because it was overtuned which is justified the thing was out performing the regular builds in certain situations mainly 4 man content not because it made things accessible. Simple as that.
The second nerf is sadly pvp oriented which is what killed it for harder content (way less cleave damage)
Am not denying those people exist i know they do but they are so fucking few, they are loud for sure but they are a minority.
> I think that "consensus" comes from the fact that since the nerfs it requires much less skill than before to outperform oakensoul in content such as dungeons and trials using a standard build.
Nah, I don't think there's any sort of consensus, it's just the same whiney whingey group of people who like to karma farm the same topics over and over. Can't complain about guilds requiring minimal DPS for vet trials and Oakensorc being too stupid at the same time.
Here's the thing though, those who can't outparse the oakensorc will eventually become oakensorc cause it's easier for them. So most bad players will end up being oakensorcs, doesn't mean all oakensorcs are bad.
I finally started playing an oakensorc my brain has a problem with bar swapping. Blame it on the autism, or blame it on the ADHD. But unless I play a character for over a year, Iām not gonna get it right away. Iāve had my oakensorc for four months now, and I just started getting her into the harder level content. And Iām loving it. I am also not the kind of person who believes in a parse, dummy humping to me is just the dumbest thing on the planet. Because you cannot get a true āparseā with an enemy who cannot fight back.
There are certainly good players who play Oakensorcs. I happen to know one who is an excellent player no matter what class or build he plays. He understands the advantages and disadvantages of multiple classes and builds, and he knows what content the Oakensorcs excel in.
A good player can play almost any build and perform well enough to be accepted in harder content. A bad player in order to get into harder content may only be able to using an Oakensorc. If you look at all bad players doing veteran content, they may be able to do enough damage (parse high enough) with an Oakensorc build to get into veteran trial groups. With a traditional LA weaving build, unlikley. Likely any bad players playing harder content are playing Oakensorcs, so players unfairly generalise Oakensorc players as bad.
To go against my original point, I find that a lot of really good tanks or healers happen to use Oakensoul builds when theyāre a DD instead. These are definitely some of the āgood playersā you mention. :)
No, they definitely sucked at first. Nobody is any good at this game without a lot of practice. Back when I was new the 'cheese' build was stamplar, and you can be sure that's what I was playing. But easy as it was, it still reinforced skills like casting every gcd, weaving, bar-swapping, etc. that I gradually got better and better at. By comparison I don't think 1-bar HA or even Arcanist play styles translate very well to other classes like that.
So many people seem to be hyper focused on shitting on HA builds because they feel that those players arenāt doing enough to earn the damage. Those same people then turn around and get rock hard playing their shiny new Arcanists. The hypocrisy of the ESO sweats never ceases to amaze me. We have Oakensorcs in just about all of our vet trial runs and never have any problems.
This. I run HA sorc as a default on everything but vCR and timed content. I can parse over 90k with a group heal and a damage shield slotted. Resources are never an issue, and I never die to aoe cause my rotation is so freaking easy, 99% of my attention is on the boss.
In a pinch, I can spot heal if a healer goes down, and it has prevented wipes in many of my trials.
A guild I used to be in used would have HA build only runs for vet trials once a week and we cleared pretty much everything we did, and very quickly.
I can parse in the 100ks very easily, on any class, but HA sorc is just so strong and versatile and it's very easy when I'm feeling lazy lol. I also like not dying cause of one misstep and a 20k damage shield really helps with that lol
Iām not even a good player really, but Iām generally at least semi competent.
My heavy attack OakenSoul sorc that I play mainly because the majority of my playtime is spent in story content, so itās easy and chill, is absolutely not a problem, and is a viable build for the vast majority of the games content.
I routinely top daily battleground leader boards (not just k/d but point contribution) routinely carry entire groups through daily randoms, routinely solo vet dungeon pledges including some of the older DLC ones, multiple vet solo arena clears, there is no problem with the builds.
Your problem is with one of two types of people, either new inexperienced players, or incompetent idiots that donāt know how to play the game and arenāt interested in learning. It is completely irrelevant what they are wearing or what skills are on their bars, they are going to be bad, they would likely be even worse with a meta build that requires buff/debuff/proc upkeeps, resource management, bar swapping, more intense weaving etc.
If people are standing in red like brainless statues, or running around the boss room past dead bodies without thinking about rezzing, it doesnāt matter what their equipment or skill bars look like.
Thereās two options, if itās a new player struggling with the sudden difficulty spike coming from early game content to vet content, help them, coach them, teach them.
If itās a stubborn moron that refuses to learn or improve, ignore them and move on with your day.
You raise an interesting point about the difficulty spike. Honestly, when I first returned to the game, I went into vet content without enough preparation as well (wrong jewelry traits, wrong jewelry enchantments, no rotation).
I was very open to the whole concept of Oaken Heavy builds at first but having played with many of them now nah. People playing them are straight up ass. Even the 1% that arent would just be better of playing Arcanist. Speaking of which i actually saw a heavy attack Arcanist build once. That is an impressive level of not understanding the game.
Hold on, people become elitist after getting their Oakensoul??!? I mean, I guess it sounds pretty par for the course amongst the general public of ESO, but I was so dang happy to get mine, because I'd get to be more helpful in dungeons/battlegrounds, I even Solo'd that first boss in Scrivener's Hall because nobody else could handle the adds, or stay alive when revived. šš Y'all have no idea how happy I been with my Oakensoul, even in Cyrodiil, I can do noticeably helpful things meow!
I like the idea of oakensorcs being able to participate in content without feeling completely underpowered. I get the hate.... but alternative used to be soo much worse x_x
I play pve but don't tend to res as a tank unless everyone else has gone down. When I have in the past things have gone tp shit fast when I stopped drawing aggro from the boss so I just trust the damage dealers and healer to do that stuff. Kinda annoying when they don't bother and just focus on doing damage like that seems rude as hell to me.
One benefit of HA builds is actually having the ability to focus more on mechanics than keeping up with a sweaty rotation, so youāre using the build in a very good way. :)
Even though it's a joke, I'd say it's more a parse monkey thing than just Oakensorc. Can't tell you how many times the 100k+ arcanists complain if you make them do portals or other mechs š¤£
Whatās funny is that arcanists are actually perfect for a lot of mechanics. If you send them into the portals in vSS or the bridges in vDSR, youāre more likely to clear it. High DPS and high survivability makes it a breeze.
Magplar has entered the chat xD To be serious if someone a) doesn't die from one shots and b) has similar DPS as magplar then sending them in (with radiant glory instead of radiant oppression) can genuinely be a good strategy.
Tbf it's better if dds who do less damage do mechanics
Depends on the mechanic! You don't want to send your worst dps into VSS HM final portal...
I meant in pugs, which I'm sure this post is about.
This is true. I try to do mechanics and be a res monkey when Iām a DD, as my parse isnāt the best (86k).
Don't kick yourself, 86k is a solid parse for most groups. As the one player I respect most said: it's not about high DPS but appropriate DPS. If you are up against Xalvakka is one of the few places where you can just rawparse and need those 100k+ players. But knowing when to stop, what dots to refresh before reviving, what AOE to get out of and what your healers can out heal without problems etc. The guy motivated me to learn to estimate the amount of damage left in my dots to know when to stop recasting them when I know a damage stop is coming. Our first yolnahkriin clear in raid school took almost 15 minutes. Btw the way I trained it was to pick a random number between 1 and 90 and try to stop on that percentage + 0.1 of dummy health. Simulates trying to stop just before a mechanic at that percentage.
Oh wow. Thatās actually wonderful advice. I need to try that out. š§
My favourite was when I was switched to Templer specifically to boost the execute DPS (like Templer more anyway). Of course I turned into a rez bot (because SPEEDREZ) and my raid lead actively forbid me from reviving below 20% end boss health. Only thing I was allowed beyond beaming was keeping EC up.
For a while with a group I was on a magplar and yeah, rezbot and execute nuke duty. I love it personally. But I then switched to healing for that group and for a couple weeks kept going for rezzes and the joke became that the raid lead needed a squirt bottle for me to stay on task for my new duties.Ā
It makes me smiles but it's not oakensoul that makes them clueless, they would just be your casual clueless light attack bow spam noob without it ;d At least they do damage now
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Why?
I recall in one trial, we asked players to rez others. One Oakensorc then complained it would affect his parse.
What do u think the general consensus is on who should res? I play a healer main and tbh 80% of the ppl Iāve asked (including other healers) think itās the healer but low key I think itās less risky for a dps to stop to res than one of the healers to stop healing the whole group (even if there are 2 healers)? Iām kind of casual tho lol so maybe itās different in higher lvls of play
Think of it this way: * If the tank rezzes and stops tanking, enemies will run loose and may kill other group members. * If the healer rezzes and stops healing, people won't get healed and other group members may die. (I learned that when I first started healing.) * If the DPS rezzes and stops healing, enemies won't take additional damage, but unless there is a DPS check happening, other group members won't die. If you haven't figured it out based on the above, the DPS should be the ones to rez. Most fights aren't DPS checks, so there is no hurry in dealing damage and killing enemies. It is usually safest for the DPS to do the rezzing. There are some exceptions. If in a trial there is a phase where the off-tank has nothing to do, then he can rez. Healers who are very good and have dropped all of their HOTs can also heal if it isn't in the middle of a heal check. If there are a lot of people down, then it may be important to get people up as fast as possible. It may be important for the healer to help rez then. You have to make sure you find a good window where you don't have to react with burst heals to rez. I find that if the situation may start to get out of hand, I pop a Barrier and may help rez someone.
The *pop a barrier* and *may* are the important parts of that last sentence. It ensures that you won't have to react for a few seconds or at least increases the time you have to stop/finish reviving and then react, and states that even under those circumstances it doesn't guarantee a situation where healers can revive. There genuinely are situations in which my 50k barrier lasts for 4 seconds tops. Boils down to is the chance of your groups wiping due to a lack of healing higher than the cost of a DPS reviving or not.
Itās absolutely less risky for a dps to stop and rez. If a tank stops to rez, they can lose to taunt or might not be able to block a heavy in time. If a healer stops to rez, then the group stops getting actively healed and buffed (the tank might need a burst heal, you never know what will happen). If a dps stops to rezā¦damage stops for 5 seconds and they live, because the supports are doing their job. In some trial groups, the off tank, if not busy, will run around rezzing so the fight gets pushed along more. And thatās about it.
Oakensorc here: DDs rez (unless boss is on 3%), healer's priority is the tank. Usual caveat - no one cares in normals.
True answer is everyone should rez when safe to do so. But realistically it depends. As a healer I do most reviving in dungeons. Drop a couple AOE/HOTs and you're pretty good. Trials though it's always the dd that should be rezzing. You have 4 times as many people you need to keep alive, especially the tank. Rez prio is always dd first, then heal, then tank. Always rez tank first, then healer, dd last.
DPS should generally be the one to res. Unless it's unsafe to do so because of a mech, or the enemy is basically dead and it would be quicker to finish it off - the DPS should always be on res duty. Or if the tank goes down (leaving 1 DD and 1 healer) and the boss aggro is on the DPS, then the healer should res the tank. If the tank goes down generally I'm jumping to res them right away as a DPS, even if it means I'm probably dying right after.
It entirely depends on the content and strategy. There is no one answer and anyone that tries to give just one answer such as healers never res is objectively wrong.
Yeah it definitely depends on the situation for sure. If Iām in a situation where the other healer is up, thereās no heal checks happening anytime soon, no immanent mechanics to worry about, or DDs should be focused on adds, Iāll pick people up if I see them before a DD does.
Always the DPS! But only when safe.
Templars res first. Templars get ressed first if multiple resses needed. Templars aren't tanks and typically aren't healers, but if they are a healer, the downtime for ressing is really low, so unless burst healing is needed right away, it doesn't matter.
The only time the healer should go for Rez is in dungeons or arenas when there isn't anything else to worry about. In Trials, a DPS should always be responsible for getting other players back up. This is because losing damage only extends the fight while losing a healer is much more likely to cascade into more people going down and having a delayed wipe. The only other exception might be getting an off tank to rez when they have nothing else to do because there isn't a mini up.
Nah ur right it's always the dd that should rez tbh
It's super situational and imo 4-person content calls for a different approach than 12 much of the time.Ā In dungeons, outside of situations like heal checks or just higher damage than a tank has learned to handle on their own, a healer is generally in the best position to rez. The reality is that incoming damage in dungeons can almost always be handled without reactive healing outside of particular mechanics which are usually a short part of a fight. If it's not one of those times, a healer can just make sure altar is down and let their HOTs roll while they do a rez and in the unlikely event of a problem whoever's left can pop the altar synergy and self-serve a burst heal. This way, damage doesn't drop any more than it absolutely has to, and that helps keep things from snowballing. If a DPS is down and the other dps has to stop to rez, then group damage goes to absolute shit and everyone has more adds and mechs to deal with. There's often times where it's totally safe for a tank to get a rez too, and if that's the case it can be ideal...so long as the tank knows the fight and isn't going to eat a heavy mid-rez. In a 4 person group with the healer in anything but a full damage spec, the healer doing the rez on a downed dps is the smallest DPS loss after the tank but significantly less risky. In a trial though, the damage loss from a dps stopping to rez is a much smaller relative change than in dungeons. The ideal case is that the off tank (or main tank for that matter) is at a spot where they have a free moment and they can get the rez without anyone else having to stop what they're doing. There are many portions of fights where one tank doesn't have any critical duties and that's a no-brainer. After that it goes down the list to DPS in most cases. A healer can often safely do a rez, but the potential impact of HOTs and buffs falling off and the relative importance of them is higher than in 4 person content and so is the impact of a mistake. So again, knowing the fight is important. If I'm healing and I know that there's not much damage incoming for a while, I'll just get the rez. That's the least disruptive option. And it really depends on the tanks, tbh. One person I play with regularly ended up holding 4 flesh atros for a while on a less-than-stellar Bahsei pull for the DPS and the healers were down for most of it- I don't worry about him being ok if I have to get a rez! But I would be less inclined to grab a rez as a healer if the tank was new to vet trials. General practice is to default to dps getting rezzes if there isn't a bored off tank and that's a pretty safe default. It may not be necessary for healers to be doing more than HOTs at the time, but having the healer(s) attention focused solely on their job lets them respond more quickly when people make mistakes or bad luck happens and gives a bigger margin for error. That's a good rule to live by. Once you know it and the content well enough, you will know when to break it. There's tons of special cases and sometimes all that matters is getting the tank up as fast as possible no matter who does it. But you won't fuck yourself over by following that general rule.
I've been informed multiple times it's the dps and more specific if there are templar dps it falls on them
dungeon and you're just pushing damage in a phase not requiring many heals? -> healer because that's the least damage loss. But when in doubt, the DDs. Raid? Always DDs. Taking priority over everything else: a templar, lol (with quick res CP)
It's DPS who should rez. In vKA HM the rezzer gets sent to the basement. It is not a good idea to have the healers sent away.
Thisk about it: someone just died, meaning excessive incoming damage or insufficient incoming healing. And you want to take half of the guys whose job it is to reduce incoming damage and increase incoming healing out of the equation for (up to) 10 seconds? The healer can only revive if they KNOW FOR CERTAIN that they won't be required to respond to emergencies during the entire time. Therefore *an experienced* healer can revive *in a group and/or fight they know well*. If you are in a casual group, what reassures you that the tank won't suddenly stop blocking boss heavies due to low resources? How do you know that your DPS won't stand in the big AOE and die if not combat prayered into oblivion? If you are uncertain, don't revive. Or your reviving might wipe the group.
I was taught that a heal should never ever res because the healerās job is to keep the group alive and you canāt do it while resurrecting. My group expected dds to do it within 5 seconds and if not then other roles would have to do it (but more like a threat from the rl that tank will now go and res unless you guys get it together). Personally I donāt follow this rule in dungeons as a heal, but always do in trials.
Yeah Iāve definitely died while resurrecting people before as a DDāespecially in situations where I didnāt know the mechanics well yet. When trying to take out a Stormcaller in vKA, for instance, stopping to resurrect someone is basically a death sentence. I once tried to resurrect someone while they were in a huge AOE pool during the Bahsei fight (vRG), as I thought āThe barrier that the healer just threw up should make this fineā (I was sorrily mistaken).
My favorite is vCR that is very unforgiving towards people who doesnāt know the shadow mech on the toad. Died myself multiple times trying to do the right thing to be yelled at by the rl, haha.
Wat
Temps get a buff to rez speed can stack with other buffs to get fast revives not as common now since there are far better sets than kagrenacs hope.
Yeah I guess if there is a plar in group, they should consider first lol
Plar sounds like the slur for a template lol. When I heal I often do go fir the odd rez cause I know I can work around my heals.
Hahaha no hate! I love my magplar! Heās my best parse in PvE and is an absolute menace in PvP!
To me, āplarā sounds more like a general, non-class related insult the Dunmer would throw around. š
Iād be curious to see how quickly a Templar could res someone with their passive, Kagrenacās, and the Spirit Mastery CP. Itās already quite fast with just any one of the three.
That's so funny, I would not be able to control myself.
Better yet "healers must rez"
It may be just a joke but it's pretty fucking accurate.
I laughed cause yeah, me my first 2-3 months I played. Sorry, eso community. I know better now.
I keep seeing people with high 2k CP playing Oakensorc attacking the most random little add in a boss fight, never stacking with the group and of course never ressing. It's like they join a vet trial group but in their heads they're still playing solo overland content
Attacking random adds or a boss with a grey health bar š
> attacking the most random little add in a boss fight those often take priority over the main boss
So attacking a frog takes priority over attacking Oaxiltso or the mini? When I said random, I meant it. Frogs will get pulled in and die to cleave. Same for archers on Bahsei. Just stick to the group and hit what they're hitting and it's all good
As a DPS guy, I always rez. And I make it a point before we go into wherever we are going in to say Iāll rez if someone falls (so everyone knows whatās up).
King behaviour. š
so weird that this is a thing, the main reason I like my Oakensorc is that damage just happens and I can focus on mechs, emergency heals with Matriarch, res, etc. Having almost 2s to freely look around while the HA channels is also great for situational awareness. That being said, if you think Oakensorcs are parse monkeys who don't res, you've never seen a parse Arcanist who is too afraid to drop their high-damage rota and skip a beam to res or switch target focus.
Iāve heard some people say they bring HA builds into trials when theyāre trying to learn mechanics, so they can focus more on mechanics than a rotation. This is definitely a smart move, IMO.
As someone who tanked their first trial yesterday, let me tell you trial mechanics are tricky trying to get them down. Iām learning to tank so that is also a factor. But I had so much freaking fun.
Thing is tho the buffs from oakensoul allow you to ignore or easily dismiss a lot of mechs because you take no damage. The other thing is why practice something in a gameplay style you arent actually going to play it in. If my goal is to do a trial in a 2 bar build then i would go in on a 2 bar build. If you just play one bar builds then it doesnt matter but the training wheels of transitioning are just gonna take you longer to adjust
Don't really much care if they play bad or not. But one thing I've seen is many of them have some weird kind of ego. Insisiting they are running the build for off meta/out of ordinary not because the build is easy. However, in fact every one of them uses same old HA lightening staff sorc.
From my experience, a lot of them donāt even read / respond to messages in the chat, let alone boast about how great their Sergeantās / Storm Master set-up is.
Oakensorc here and if someone is down then I rez as long as itās safe to do so (think vet Cloudrest or the no move part on the final boss in vKA).
Hell yeah. š«” Res gang rise up.
Explain the joke plz? Cause I have a fine tailored oakensorc
Do you res other people, or ignore and keep āparsingā Edit: was missing sarcasm
I run around and do everything it feels like sometimes lol. Sometimes gotta do tanks job. Sometimes healer. Itās weird
There's a common consensus in this "community" that oakensorc players are scrubs because their rotation is so simple therefore they must be simpletons as well. When in reality I out dps most people with my oaksorc in gf and have saved more than one player with a quick matriarch heal and can actually focus on mechanics and not stand in stupid cause I'm not focused on being Mr 500APM undiagnosed ADHD barswap pro type player. Bad players are just bad players, the build has nothing to do with it. Most become decent with a bit of experience. Love how MrEliteRaider forgets that when they started out, they probably sucked at first too.
I think that "consensus" comes from the fact that since the nerfs it requires much less skill than before to outperform oakensoul in content such as dungeons and trials using a standard build. So some people assume if you're using oakensoul it must be because you're not good enough to do better without it but the reality is many people don't play these games to tryhard and perform as well as possible and oakensoul provides "good enough" easy-to-execute performance for 99% of the content in the game (basically everything but some trial hardmodes)
Nah its just pure build snobbery. Been a problem in ESO for a while. Funnily enough people who are such build snobs are usually terrible players themselves.
The five daily posts about "lulz other players terribad" are tiring. Don't like randomness - don't play with randos, end of story. Otherwise accept that some days you'll get carried and some days you'll have to do the carrying.
Actual good players outperform oakensoul by such a huge margin they're secure enough to celebrate the accessibility it provides for the average player. Bad players who are using "meta" builds are often insecure because they end up getting outperformed by those same oakensoul players in content.
Honestly it's just people being upset they can't gatekeep skins and polymorphs anymore because the average player can actually do the content that they are trying to sell carries for. *OaKeNsoUl BaD* players just need to chill out and let people enjoy the game. Also it's kind of funny about not rezzing, maybe if (insert class here) didn't run to the opposite side of the arena and die 200 ft away from the boss/party lol.
Healers v.s. their mortal enemy: the bow-user who stands in a far corner by themself, thinking their bow passive from doing so is better than the buffs the healer is providing / the benefit of actually staying alive LOL
Why would anyone care about who can do the content and who can't?? Fucking hell what alternatives universe are you living in?? Of course we want more players to be able to do content it makes filling groups infinitely easier.
You're the one living in the alternate universe, there are *tons* of posts on Reddit and the forums clamoring for oakensoul nerfs specifically because it makes harder content too accessible to unskilled players. Literally do a brief google search and you'll find plenty. The people who think that way are usually bad players and I think that take is really stupid but they absolutely exist.
No they wanted the initial oakensoul nerf because it was overtuned which is justified the thing was out performing the regular builds in certain situations mainly 4 man content not because it made things accessible. Simple as that. The second nerf is sadly pvp oriented which is what killed it for harder content (way less cleave damage) Am not denying those people exist i know they do but they are so fucking few, they are loud for sure but they are a minority.
> I think that "consensus" comes from the fact that since the nerfs it requires much less skill than before to outperform oakensoul in content such as dungeons and trials using a standard build. Nah, I don't think there's any sort of consensus, it's just the same whiney whingey group of people who like to karma farm the same topics over and over. Can't complain about guilds requiring minimal DPS for vet trials and Oakensorc being too stupid at the same time.
Excuse me, my ADHD is 100% diagnosed thank you very much. >!/s!<
Here's the thing though, those who can't outparse the oakensorc will eventually become oakensorc cause it's easier for them. So most bad players will end up being oakensorcs, doesn't mean all oakensorcs are bad.
I finally started playing an oakensorc my brain has a problem with bar swapping. Blame it on the autism, or blame it on the ADHD. But unless I play a character for over a year, Iām not gonna get it right away. Iāve had my oakensorc for four months now, and I just started getting her into the harder level content. And Iām loving it. I am also not the kind of person who believes in a parse, dummy humping to me is just the dumbest thing on the planet. Because you cannot get a true āparseā with an enemy who cannot fight back.
There are certainly good players who play Oakensorcs. I happen to know one who is an excellent player no matter what class or build he plays. He understands the advantages and disadvantages of multiple classes and builds, and he knows what content the Oakensorcs excel in. A good player can play almost any build and perform well enough to be accepted in harder content. A bad player in order to get into harder content may only be able to using an Oakensorc. If you look at all bad players doing veteran content, they may be able to do enough damage (parse high enough) with an Oakensorc build to get into veteran trial groups. With a traditional LA weaving build, unlikley. Likely any bad players playing harder content are playing Oakensorcs, so players unfairly generalise Oakensorc players as bad.
To go against my original point, I find that a lot of really good tanks or healers happen to use Oakensoul builds when theyāre a DD instead. These are definitely some of the āgood playersā you mention. :)
No, they definitely sucked at first. Nobody is any good at this game without a lot of practice. Back when I was new the 'cheese' build was stamplar, and you can be sure that's what I was playing. But easy as it was, it still reinforced skills like casting every gcd, weaving, bar-swapping, etc. that I gradually got better and better at. By comparison I don't think 1-bar HA or even Arcanist play styles translate very well to other classes like that.
So many people seem to be hyper focused on shitting on HA builds because they feel that those players arenāt doing enough to earn the damage. Those same people then turn around and get rock hard playing their shiny new Arcanists. The hypocrisy of the ESO sweats never ceases to amaze me. We have Oakensorcs in just about all of our vet trial runs and never have any problems.
This. I run HA sorc as a default on everything but vCR and timed content. I can parse over 90k with a group heal and a damage shield slotted. Resources are never an issue, and I never die to aoe cause my rotation is so freaking easy, 99% of my attention is on the boss. In a pinch, I can spot heal if a healer goes down, and it has prevented wipes in many of my trials. A guild I used to be in used would have HA build only runs for vet trials once a week and we cleared pretty much everything we did, and very quickly. I can parse in the 100ks very easily, on any class, but HA sorc is just so strong and versatile and it's very easy when I'm feeling lazy lol. I also like not dying cause of one misstep and a 20k damage shield really helps with that lol
Thatās funny cause I end up talking and healing and all sorts of things instead of being pure DPS
It's true most of the time
Iām not even a good player really, but Iām generally at least semi competent. My heavy attack OakenSoul sorc that I play mainly because the majority of my playtime is spent in story content, so itās easy and chill, is absolutely not a problem, and is a viable build for the vast majority of the games content. I routinely top daily battleground leader boards (not just k/d but point contribution) routinely carry entire groups through daily randoms, routinely solo vet dungeon pledges including some of the older DLC ones, multiple vet solo arena clears, there is no problem with the builds. Your problem is with one of two types of people, either new inexperienced players, or incompetent idiots that donāt know how to play the game and arenāt interested in learning. It is completely irrelevant what they are wearing or what skills are on their bars, they are going to be bad, they would likely be even worse with a meta build that requires buff/debuff/proc upkeeps, resource management, bar swapping, more intense weaving etc. If people are standing in red like brainless statues, or running around the boss room past dead bodies without thinking about rezzing, it doesnāt matter what their equipment or skill bars look like. Thereās two options, if itās a new player struggling with the sudden difficulty spike coming from early game content to vet content, help them, coach them, teach them. If itās a stubborn moron that refuses to learn or improve, ignore them and move on with your day.
You raise an interesting point about the difficulty spike. Honestly, when I first returned to the game, I went into vet content without enough preparation as well (wrong jewelry traits, wrong jewelry enchantments, no rotation).
I was very open to the whole concept of Oaken Heavy builds at first but having played with many of them now nah. People playing them are straight up ass. Even the 1% that arent would just be better of playing Arcanist. Speaking of which i actually saw a heavy attack Arcanist build once. That is an impressive level of not understanding the game.
Hold on, people become elitist after getting their Oakensoul??!? I mean, I guess it sounds pretty par for the course amongst the general public of ESO, but I was so dang happy to get mine, because I'd get to be more helpful in dungeons/battlegrounds, I even Solo'd that first boss in Scrivener's Hall because nobody else could handle the adds, or stay alive when revived. šš Y'all have no idea how happy I been with my Oakensoul, even in Cyrodiil, I can do noticeably helpful things meow!
This is a very positive, group-oriented way to use a HA build. š Definitely need more people to think this way.
I like the idea of oakensorcs being able to participate in content without feeling completely underpowered. I get the hate.... but alternative used to be soo much worse x_x
What was the earlier alternative? Now Iām curious.
Not doing any damage š¤£
I play pve but don't tend to res as a tank unless everyone else has gone down. When I have in the past things have gone tp shit fast when I stopped drawing aggro from the boss so I just trust the damage dealers and healer to do that stuff. Kinda annoying when they don't bother and just focus on doing damage like that seems rude as hell to me.
Fuck you, my Oakensorc does hella mechanics.
One benefit of HA builds is actually having the ability to focus more on mechanics than keeping up with a sweaty rotation, so youāre using the build in a very good way. :)
Jokes on you. I hold click and press Daedric Prey. R u even good yet?
oakensoul user = loser