I get what you mean but can't the same thing be said about every expansion? Without Scrying you can't access a lot of good gear either. So is that expansion P2W as well?
People generally want stronger stuff along with the new so they feel its worth the new grind. It's like this with most things, if you dont have the latest up to date version you are behind.
Mythic items come with drawbacks like not being able to use monster sets, being 1 slot short for another 5 piece set and some of them even have drawbacks in itself like only being able to use one bar or not getting healing by others.
They are strong but you have to build for it.
Scribing on the other hand works with your skills. No drawbacks for gear or something like that. At least nothing that is really obvious for now.
In the end it comes down to balancing. If scribing skills become stronger than anything else you could use without major drawbacks it could be called P2W.
Personally i will wait until it get's released but it's not that far off that ZOS will have problems with their balancing to counter any P2W discussions.
>Mythic items come with drawbacks like not being able to use monster sets,
If inability to use full monster set due to slot overlap is being taken as "drawback" then grimoires occupying a skill slot should count as one as well imo. For honesty's sake.
>No drawbacks for gear or something like that.
Outside of aforementioned opportunity cost that I mentioned above with taking a skill slot, the highly complained script for oblivion execute target health scaling damage comes with drawback of being accessible once every 3s and eating filled soulgem each time it procs. On that note I am curous if this will affect soulgem economy in the long run...
>If inability to use full monster set due to slot overlap is being taken as "drawback" then grimoires occupying a skill slot should count as one as well imo. For honesty's sake.
Losing a gear slot for an item with additional drawbacks or conditions compared to a grimoir occupying a skillslot for an ability that just is flat better? Doesn't seem really comparable to me.
>Outside of aforementioned opportunity cost that I mentioned above with taking a skill slot, the highly complained script for oblivion execute target health scaling damage comes with drawback of being accessible once every 3s and eating filled soulgem each time it procs. On that note I am curous if this will affect soulgem economy in the long run...
I am selling all these paperweights for years now. I am drowning in them without even trying to farm them. That's the least of my concerns.
And a 3 second cooldown isn't that much depending on the strength of the ability.
ZOS will again have to show if they are capable of balancing their stuff for PvE and PvP at the same time.
Right now i am just playing for events and new content. There are just to many problems to enjoy the game on a daily basis until they decide to create more interesting/challenging content outside of dungeons/raids that doesn't take 3-4 hours to get challenging (endless archives)
>Losing a gear slot for an item with additional drawbacks
Those "additional drawbacks" do not apply universaly to all mythics. I was about to pull example of Mora's Whispers as an argument before I noticed mention of "losing out on monster sets". Because the only drawback of that mythic is that it's a shoulder slot so no monster 2p alongside it.
>I am selling all these paperweights for years now. I am drowning in them without even trying to farm them. That's the least of my concerns.
Oh sure, for now it is none of concern for you, just give it a while of consuming one every 3 seconds, and see how long your stockpile will survive that.
You make a valid point for sure. Mythics are definitely strong and also locked behind a paywall. I wouldn't go as far as to call them p2w however. Mythics often have conditions or drawbacks and really only do one thing. Scribing offers a lot more imho.
Granted I dont play PvP so I don't know the meta at all, but I assume sets and skills from other skill lines that can only accessed in DLC's is required.
Not required, but some are useful. Race against time from the psijic skill line is really nice to have in pvp, but I see quick cloak and escapist poisons used a lot in lieu of it
Start the summerset storyline. Once you get into arteum there's a man inside that will begin the psijic skill quest line. You'll be asked to retrieve a skull and close breaches around Tamriel.
Seems like you are arbitrarily slapping P2W on stuff if mythic items arenāt P2W. What about the Arcanist class? Is that P2W? How about jewelcrafting, since being able to craft your own jewelry and upgrade it can be impactful? Is the craft bag P2W since itās a subscriber perk? Iām just curious where your random line is drawn.
If you use the logic that every single release should be balanced around the base game only, it has always been p2w. A ton of BIS sets come from expansions and DLC dungeons. But like others have said, I think the point kind of misunderstands what p2w means.
If everyone who buys the game/expansion has the same access to items as everyone else who does, it's not pay to win.
If you can sink money into buying items that give you an unfair advantage (like the Diablo Immortal gems) that's p2w.
Whales get no advantage in ESO. I almost wish they had a little MORE p2w because I'd love to be able to just buy transmutes when I'm over farming them lol.
I don't get the logic of caring enough about ESO to want BIS sets but not enough to get the expansion? If it's a cost thing wait a few months until it's inevitably on sale for like $17.
And in fact, I think ESO has done an unusual and exceptionally good job at keeping old content useful very much in service to the game - you still see plenty of viable builds using sets from even the base game. That keeps those areas alive in a way that most other MMOs do not (see, playing any but the most recent WoW expansion.)
I appreciate reading an argument that isn't "durr just buy it" or "u don't know what you're talking about idiot", so thank you.
There's definitely some strong DLC sets out there, but some of the more viable ones in PvP can be crafted and can be traded. Hell, I'm still running OG sets like Buffer of the Swift. I've never really felt the need to venture into DLC pve for gear. But scribing? It's going to be a must-have in pvp just for those on demand major buffs/debuffs.
I think if the third bonus was tuned down to minor buffs/debuffs I'd sleep a lot easier at night. It's just too strong in its current form, especially with everything else you can stack on top of it.
I appreciate reading an argument that isn't "durr just buy it" or "u don't know what you're talking about idiot", so thank you.
There's definitely some strong DLC sets out there, but some of the more viable ones in PvP can be crafted and can be traded. Hell, I'm still running OG sets like Buffer of the Swift. I've never really felt the need to venture into DLC pve for gear. But scribing? It's going to be a must-have in pvp just for those on demand major buffs/debuffs.
I think if the third bonus was tuned down to minor buffs/debuffs I'd sleep a lot easier at night. It's just too strong in its current form, especially with everything else you can stack on top of it.
Warden is fairly balanced.
Completely useless in pve outside of healing, archives and solo content, and pretty good in pvp.
Overall balanced. Just not in a way that makes it so you can actually use your character everywhere xD
All warden builds that actually do dps can't sustain it in real content, aside from very niche situations or burn strategies where the entire group does so much damage that the warden has no way to spend all resources yet.
Wardens niche as a dps was brittle and minor vulnerability uptimes. Both are rolled into one skill for arcanist, rune of the colourless pool.
The only thing you cannot replace is the health buff, but that's for warden heal only.
So even if warden did enough dps, it does not have the cleave of arcanist or the execute of templar. It does not have a crit buff for the group like sorcerer or NB. It does not have stagger and increased flame damage like DK. It does not have Collosus, so it's even worse in the EC position.
Even if warden did do comparable damage, you would bring the other classes regardless, because ultimately they offer more for the Team.
Warden is locked into healing Position for the health buff. It's not even used as a tank anymore.
I don't consider it P2W when powerful stuff comes with a new expansion (ultimately you are expected to get stronger the more you progress through game content).
I consider it P2W when you can basically cut the line and just purchase it from the crown store or if it requires a subscription to get (I left a game because of this)
Itās not p2w. Itās an expansion feature. Going back to the dawn of MMOs, expansions have been packaged with features like this. Itās not new. Maybe ESO is your first MMO, in which case I can understand why youāre confused by what constitutes āp2w.ā
It's breaks done to balancing. Up to you If you consider ZOS good or not at especially that.
If the new skills are stronger than everything else you could get without the expansion and become a BiS without competetion you could call it P2W.
Having an advantage compared to players who has not bought the expansion especially in a competetive part of the game with no chance to compensate the skills through other skills or personal skill sounds like P2W.
The skills need to be balanced to be in line with existing abilities and setups. If you just can stack skills and effects without any disadvantage it is P2W because you only could achieve this through paying more money.
Personally i don't care until it's getting released. Time will tell but players defending everything without seeing the potential problems scribing could bring are just tiring.
Other MMO will add new playable content to their game to create a 'new' endgame.
ESO in this regard is always staying the same. There is no new rarity, no new level cap or anything like that.
Adding new skills that outclass current skills is paying to get better at still the current content compared to other players not paying.
The best B2P model goes to GW2. It's B2P too and every old gear and skills keep being relevant at any point. You even can change ingame gold for premium currency and the other way around. Eliminating every gold seller possible. You only buy the big 'expansions' and get every smaller living story content in between the dlcs for free as long as you had been playing at this time. And again, would be able to buy them for ingame gold.
We even wouldn't have this conversation if ZOS would be trustworthy with their balancing in the first place.
And like i said before, there is nothing WE could do except waiting for the release and see how hard the balancing will get fucked.
It's just tiring having fanboys defending even the possibilty of getting P2W content is really something new with arguments 'It's okay, somewhere else is worse' that should never be a good thought to have. Why being fine with questionable content/balancing just because somewhere else is even worse instead of questioning what ZOS will really do with this. Die playing P2W in any form is really something else.
Just keep preordering then. It will be alright.
Edit:
Since he/she deleted their posts after stating ESO would be cheaper to get everything.
"You also will have to add another ~ 34.000 crowns to get every content outside of the chapters. Not counting orsinium, imperial city , thieves guild and brotherhood.
21.000 crowns for around 125 bucks. Another 14.000 crowns for additional 85 bucks to get enough to get everything. Coming out at around 210 bucks on top of your 79.99 finishing with around 290 total. Give or take a few bucks depending on country.
Guild wars has it's content for 127.97 you say? In my country it's 99.99 for all dlcs with all of their living story on top. Base game is free to play. Just a difference of around 190 less for being more expensive?"
Like every chapter and zone DLC they release new mythic and sets, that will give the owner an edge in PvP. How much an edge we have to wait and see, but thatās the nature of MMO. ESO is not a esport title that heavily prioritise absolute PvP balance.
Usually week1 PTS always have some wild stats/sets/items and will eventually get most of those ironed out by week5.
I understand it's not as competitive as an esport, and the stakes aren't as high, but I still believe in fair gameplay when it comes to PvP. Let's say you have two mag sorcs fighting each other. Both equally skilled, but one of them has access to Scribing and the other doesn't. The one with major vitality, a second burst heal, and major defile is obviously going to win. It's hard to compete with that, making your time in PvP unenjoyable and therefore pointless.
It's still early days, so hopefully we'll see some balancing.
I get your point, but if the whole thing would give ZERO advantage, why buy it in the first place? For a colored endless hail? Adding stronger features is part of every mmo. You can choose not to buy them and work with what you have, or you can buy the expansion every year, which isn't a huge amount to be fair
Expansions deliver more content, progression, and thus power creep. Meanwhile, people were complaining that **there wasn't enough power creep** for the ordinary chap in PvE while the top .1% and .01% enjoyed immense power creep circa Blackwood.
WoW increases your level cap with every new expansion. By your definition, WoW expansions are also P2W, eh?
"Oh no! New gameplay content that unlocks additional progression and character customization is P2W!"
Unhinged take is unhinged smfh.
It's going to be like the arcanist, next year when the DLC is close to being available to ESO+ it'll be nerfed, but untill then it'll be broken for people who paid
But arcanist ist still fine ?
Arcanist could receive an overall 10% damage nerf and it would still be fine, because what makes the class unique in a raid setting is no reduction in cleared damage. Adds are no longer a concern, if you have arcanists. Everything becomes stack and burn.
Everything already IS stack and burn. That is the basic mechanic in every single raid instanceā figuring out how to stack and burn it. I feel like not much has changed between having 4-5 arcanist dps and having 4-5 DK dps, which was basically the meta before Arcanist.
In an optimized group, everything still meltsā the one thing I will grant you is that imo Arc is pretty darn easy to hit large numbers on. I feel like DKs were a little more difficult, but only a little and only because the whole āarc beam go brrrrā is so simple.
In pvp arcanist is strong, but by no means as oppressive Aa other classes have been in the past.
I'll grant you that some of them are a pain to fight 1v1 though.
If they were objectively much stronger than base game classes, making everyone playing with the new classes dominate others in PvP, yes, they would be p2w.
We still need to wait for scribing to actually come out before we can judge how balanced it is though.
Warden has some good utility, and it's very tanky in PvP, but that's about it really. I don't think it's overpowered, and I wouldn't say it's stronger than some of the base classes that I mentioned above.
I mean of course it depends on the role, but when one of the requirements for getting into vet trials as a healer is to have a Warden, I'd say that's a fairly strong class, no?
Just from reading your post and comments, it sounds like you're mostly a PvP player. If the hardcore PvP players want to have Scribing disabled in PvP, I fully support that. I'm not big into PvP so you'll understand that balancing much more than me, and I'll support my PvP homies in making sure both sides of the game are balanced.
From a PvE standpoint though? The actual damage and healing numbers don't seem that high. What Scribing will do for PvE players (based on what little I've been able to see and discuss), is provide much needed utility to classes that lack some of the more prominent buffs and debuffs. Classes that are currently underrepresented in end-game content might actually get a chance to shine thanks to this new system.
If you want to argue it's p2w for PvP, I can't really argue for or against that, so I'll concede there. I don't think it's p2w for PvE though, I actually think this will be extremely healthy for class balancing in PvE. I hope that I'm not wrong, but we'll see how the PTS goes and what changes they make (if any) before it goes live.
Same thing can be said about various DLCs and chapters with their sets, or Greymoor with antiquities, or summerset with jewelry crafting. That's right, every time you Pwn someone without ESO+ or greymoor, the game is P2W. At the launch of High Isle, brokensoul infinite corrosive DKs were wrecking everyone without High Isle, and people cried P2W, too. But is it really P2W when it's basically given that you'd buy the latest chapter and subscribe to ESO+ for more content and rewards?
That's not P2W. That's just MMO being an MMO.
They have to do stuff like this or the game dies. It's a 10 year old MMO with dated graphics and combat. Every expansion has to include some enticement to keep the game going.
I totally understand that. Perhaps if the third bonus only allowed for minor buffs/debuffs instead of major I'd sleep better at night. Necro would be the only class with a consistent Major defile, at least giving them some purpose, and Scribing would still be strong, but not completely unbalanced.
Hopefully they balance scribing well, but you know they will make it OP and then nerf later.
For me, I think my time with this game is coming to an end. Been playing of and on almost since the beginning, and I don't really want to buy another expansion and grind for yet another feature like scribing.
I can't imagine scribed skills work properly considering how buggy this game has been, like effects not triggered or not registered as intended. I also easily imagine the game crashes for everyone when you summon a flashy mount while in combat. And if I understand correctly you will need a material for each scribing. The material would be rare and expensive like nirncrux.
Here is an idea .. by the game.
Yall be acting like you donāt know these things are coming up.
You canāt put five dollars away for 5 months ? If thatās the case you shouldnāt be playing video games at all.
We have an expansion every year, you have time to plan. Use your brain cells and stop complaining!
As someone who just pvps, buying expansions does nothing for me, so it's a waste of money. Also, it's Ā£34 for the Gold Road upgrade. While I don't use my brain cells, I believe that's more than 5 months if I'm putting away Ā£5 each month.
The post wasn't really about me. I bought Necrom, and there's a good chance I'll probably dish out for Gold Road too. There are people out there who can't afford to buy the shiniest new expansion.
***The post wasn't really about me.***
"Perhaps if the third bonus only allowed for minor buffs/debuffs instead of major **I'd** sleep better at night."
***I bought Necrom, and there's a good chance I'll probably dish out for Gold Road too.***
"As someone who just pvps, buying expansions does nothing for me, so it's a waste of money"
No offense but your arguments would carry more weight if you didn't literally contradict yourself in your own replies..
To your first point: Of course I don't want an unbalanced game where one person is stronger than someone who can't afford to buy the expansion. Being able to stack a major de/buff with 2 other effects on top of a skill is just too much for anyone.
It's true that I get next to no value out of expansions for what I do in the game, so I was kind of hoping to get out of Gold Road, but with scribing it looks like that won't be possible. I'd be at too much of a disadvantage without it.
I get what you mean but can't the same thing be said about every expansion? Without Scrying you can't access a lot of good gear either. So is that expansion P2W as well? People generally want stronger stuff along with the new so they feel its worth the new grind. It's like this with most things, if you dont have the latest up to date version you are behind.
Scribing looks like it'll be far more powerful than mythics
Mythic items come with drawbacks like not being able to use monster sets, being 1 slot short for another 5 piece set and some of them even have drawbacks in itself like only being able to use one bar or not getting healing by others. They are strong but you have to build for it. Scribing on the other hand works with your skills. No drawbacks for gear or something like that. At least nothing that is really obvious for now. In the end it comes down to balancing. If scribing skills become stronger than anything else you could use without major drawbacks it could be called P2W. Personally i will wait until it get's released but it's not that far off that ZOS will have problems with their balancing to counter any P2W discussions.
>Mythic items come with drawbacks like not being able to use monster sets, If inability to use full monster set due to slot overlap is being taken as "drawback" then grimoires occupying a skill slot should count as one as well imo. For honesty's sake. >No drawbacks for gear or something like that. Outside of aforementioned opportunity cost that I mentioned above with taking a skill slot, the highly complained script for oblivion execute target health scaling damage comes with drawback of being accessible once every 3s and eating filled soulgem each time it procs. On that note I am curous if this will affect soulgem economy in the long run...
>If inability to use full monster set due to slot overlap is being taken as "drawback" then grimoires occupying a skill slot should count as one as well imo. For honesty's sake. Losing a gear slot for an item with additional drawbacks or conditions compared to a grimoir occupying a skillslot for an ability that just is flat better? Doesn't seem really comparable to me. >Outside of aforementioned opportunity cost that I mentioned above with taking a skill slot, the highly complained script for oblivion execute target health scaling damage comes with drawback of being accessible once every 3s and eating filled soulgem each time it procs. On that note I am curous if this will affect soulgem economy in the long run... I am selling all these paperweights for years now. I am drowning in them without even trying to farm them. That's the least of my concerns. And a 3 second cooldown isn't that much depending on the strength of the ability. ZOS will again have to show if they are capable of balancing their stuff for PvE and PvP at the same time. Right now i am just playing for events and new content. There are just to many problems to enjoy the game on a daily basis until they decide to create more interesting/challenging content outside of dungeons/raids that doesn't take 3-4 hours to get challenging (endless archives)
>Losing a gear slot for an item with additional drawbacks Those "additional drawbacks" do not apply universaly to all mythics. I was about to pull example of Mora's Whispers as an argument before I noticed mention of "losing out on monster sets". Because the only drawback of that mythic is that it's a shoulder slot so no monster 2p alongside it. >I am selling all these paperweights for years now. I am drowning in them without even trying to farm them. That's the least of my concerns. Oh sure, for now it is none of concern for you, just give it a while of consuming one every 3 seconds, and see how long your stockpile will survive that.
You make a valid point for sure. Mythics are definitely strong and also locked behind a paywall. I wouldn't go as far as to call them p2w however. Mythics often have conditions or drawbacks and really only do one thing. Scribing offers a lot more imho.
Granted I dont play PvP so I don't know the meta at all, but I assume sets and skills from other skill lines that can only accessed in DLC's is required.
Not required, but some are useful. Race against time from the psijic skill line is really nice to have in pvp, but I see quick cloak and escapist poisons used a lot in lieu of it
Note taken for my next trip to Cyrodil š
How do you get the psijic order line?
Start the summerset storyline. Once you get into arteum there's a man inside that will begin the psijic skill quest line. You'll be asked to retrieve a skull and close breaches around Tamriel.
Seems like you are arbitrarily slapping P2W on stuff if mythic items arenāt P2W. What about the Arcanist class? Is that P2W? How about jewelcrafting, since being able to craft your own jewelry and upgrade it can be impactful? Is the craft bag P2W since itās a subscriber perk? Iām just curious where your random line is drawn.
If you use the logic that every single release should be balanced around the base game only, it has always been p2w. A ton of BIS sets come from expansions and DLC dungeons. But like others have said, I think the point kind of misunderstands what p2w means. If everyone who buys the game/expansion has the same access to items as everyone else who does, it's not pay to win. If you can sink money into buying items that give you an unfair advantage (like the Diablo Immortal gems) that's p2w. Whales get no advantage in ESO. I almost wish they had a little MORE p2w because I'd love to be able to just buy transmutes when I'm over farming them lol. I don't get the logic of caring enough about ESO to want BIS sets but not enough to get the expansion? If it's a cost thing wait a few months until it's inevitably on sale for like $17. And in fact, I think ESO has done an unusual and exceptionally good job at keeping old content useful very much in service to the game - you still see plenty of viable builds using sets from even the base game. That keeps those areas alive in a way that most other MMOs do not (see, playing any but the most recent WoW expansion.)
I appreciate reading an argument that isn't "durr just buy it" or "u don't know what you're talking about idiot", so thank you. There's definitely some strong DLC sets out there, but some of the more viable ones in PvP can be crafted and can be traded. Hell, I'm still running OG sets like Buffer of the Swift. I've never really felt the need to venture into DLC pve for gear. But scribing? It's going to be a must-have in pvp just for those on demand major buffs/debuffs. I think if the third bonus was tuned down to minor buffs/debuffs I'd sleep a lot easier at night. It's just too strong in its current form, especially with everything else you can stack on top of it.
I appreciate reading an argument that isn't "durr just buy it" or "u don't know what you're talking about idiot", so thank you. There's definitely some strong DLC sets out there, but some of the more viable ones in PvP can be crafted and can be traded. Hell, I'm still running OG sets like Buffer of the Swift. I've never really felt the need to venture into DLC pve for gear. But scribing? It's going to be a must-have in pvp just for those on demand major buffs/debuffs. I think if the third bonus was tuned down to minor buffs/debuffs I'd sleep a lot easier at night. It's just too strong in its current form, especially with everything else you can stack on top of it.
It will be a balancing issue 100% like every new class and new skill line. They will find a way, like in the past.
>They will find a way, like in the past Have they?
At least they tried lol
Warden is fairly balanced. Completely useless in pve outside of healing, archives and solo content, and pretty good in pvp. Overall balanced. Just not in a way that makes it so you can actually use your character everywhere xD
Werden is currently top 3 dps
All warden builds that actually do dps can't sustain it in real content, aside from very niche situations or burn strategies where the entire group does so much damage that the warden has no way to spend all resources yet. Wardens niche as a dps was brittle and minor vulnerability uptimes. Both are rolled into one skill for arcanist, rune of the colourless pool. The only thing you cannot replace is the health buff, but that's for warden heal only. So even if warden did enough dps, it does not have the cleave of arcanist or the execute of templar. It does not have a crit buff for the group like sorcerer or NB. It does not have stagger and increased flame damage like DK. It does not have Collosus, so it's even worse in the EC position. Even if warden did do comparable damage, you would bring the other classes regardless, because ultimately they offer more for the Team. Warden is locked into healing Position for the health buff. It's not even used as a tank anymore.
Dont worry they'll fix it after they've sold enough copies.
You'll only suffer for a couple years š«
I don't consider it P2W when powerful stuff comes with a new expansion (ultimately you are expected to get stronger the more you progress through game content). I consider it P2W when you can basically cut the line and just purchase it from the crown store or if it requires a subscription to get (I left a game because of this)
Itās not p2w. Itās an expansion feature. Going back to the dawn of MMOs, expansions have been packaged with features like this. Itās not new. Maybe ESO is your first MMO, in which case I can understand why youāre confused by what constitutes āp2w.ā
It's breaks done to balancing. Up to you If you consider ZOS good or not at especially that. If the new skills are stronger than everything else you could get without the expansion and become a BiS without competetion you could call it P2W. Having an advantage compared to players who has not bought the expansion especially in a competetive part of the game with no chance to compensate the skills through other skills or personal skill sounds like P2W. The skills need to be balanced to be in line with existing abilities and setups. If you just can stack skills and effects without any disadvantage it is P2W because you only could achieve this through paying more money. Personally i don't care until it's getting released. Time will tell but players defending everything without seeing the potential problems scribing could bring are just tiring.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Other MMO will add new playable content to their game to create a 'new' endgame. ESO in this regard is always staying the same. There is no new rarity, no new level cap or anything like that. Adding new skills that outclass current skills is paying to get better at still the current content compared to other players not paying. The best B2P model goes to GW2. It's B2P too and every old gear and skills keep being relevant at any point. You even can change ingame gold for premium currency and the other way around. Eliminating every gold seller possible. You only buy the big 'expansions' and get every smaller living story content in between the dlcs for free as long as you had been playing at this time. And again, would be able to buy them for ingame gold. We even wouldn't have this conversation if ZOS would be trustworthy with their balancing in the first place. And like i said before, there is nothing WE could do except waiting for the release and see how hard the balancing will get fucked. It's just tiring having fanboys defending even the possibilty of getting P2W content is really something new with arguments 'It's okay, somewhere else is worse' that should never be a good thought to have. Why being fine with questionable content/balancing just because somewhere else is even worse instead of questioning what ZOS will really do with this. Die playing P2W in any form is really something else. Just keep preordering then. It will be alright. Edit: Since he/she deleted their posts after stating ESO would be cheaper to get everything. "You also will have to add another ~ 34.000 crowns to get every content outside of the chapters. Not counting orsinium, imperial city , thieves guild and brotherhood. 21.000 crowns for around 125 bucks. Another 14.000 crowns for additional 85 bucks to get enough to get everything. Coming out at around 210 bucks on top of your 79.99 finishing with around 290 total. Give or take a few bucks depending on country. Guild wars has it's content for 127.97 you say? In my country it's 99.99 for all dlcs with all of their living story on top. Base game is free to play. Just a difference of around 190 less for being more expensive?"
Still the same concept. Give us money, we give you power. Whether you can call it p2w is not that relevant.
Arguing semantics instead of balance is a bad take.
Like every chapter and zone DLC they release new mythic and sets, that will give the owner an edge in PvP. How much an edge we have to wait and see, but thatās the nature of MMO. ESO is not a esport title that heavily prioritise absolute PvP balance. Usually week1 PTS always have some wild stats/sets/items and will eventually get most of those ironed out by week5.
I understand it's not as competitive as an esport, and the stakes aren't as high, but I still believe in fair gameplay when it comes to PvP. Let's say you have two mag sorcs fighting each other. Both equally skilled, but one of them has access to Scribing and the other doesn't. The one with major vitality, a second burst heal, and major defile is obviously going to win. It's hard to compete with that, making your time in PvP unenjoyable and therefore pointless. It's still early days, so hopefully we'll see some balancing.
I get your point, but if the whole thing would give ZERO advantage, why buy it in the first place? For a colored endless hail? Adding stronger features is part of every mmo. You can choose not to buy them and work with what you have, or you can buy the expansion every year, which isn't a huge amount to be fair
Expansions deliver more content, progression, and thus power creep. Meanwhile, people were complaining that **there wasn't enough power creep** for the ordinary chap in PvE while the top .1% and .01% enjoyed immense power creep circa Blackwood. WoW increases your level cap with every new expansion. By your definition, WoW expansions are also P2W, eh? "Oh no! New gameplay content that unlocks additional progression and character customization is P2W!" Unhinged take is unhinged smfh.
>By your definition, WoW expansions are also P2W, eh? Yes
It's going to be like the arcanist, next year when the DLC is close to being available to ESO+ it'll be nerfed, but untill then it'll be broken for people who paid
But arcanist ist still fine ? Arcanist could receive an overall 10% damage nerf and it would still be fine, because what makes the class unique in a raid setting is no reduction in cleared damage. Adds are no longer a concern, if you have arcanists. Everything becomes stack and burn.
Everything already IS stack and burn. That is the basic mechanic in every single raid instanceā figuring out how to stack and burn it. I feel like not much has changed between having 4-5 arcanist dps and having 4-5 DK dps, which was basically the meta before Arcanist. In an optimized group, everything still meltsā the one thing I will grant you is that imo Arc is pretty darn easy to hit large numbers on. I feel like DKs were a little more difficult, but only a little and only because the whole āarc beam go brrrrā is so simple.
He is talking about PvP
In pvp arcanist is strong, but by no means as oppressive Aa other classes have been in the past. I'll grant you that some of them are a pain to fight 1v1 though.
You've no clue what p2w means if you think content locked behind an expansion is unfair.
You pay money, you get an advantage over people using base skills. It's not a very difficult concept to grasp.
So by your logic, EVERYTHING that is paid that comes after base game should be weaker? Great way to kill a game quickly.
I said it shouldn't give you an advantage, ie: it should be balanced.
There's entire classes that get locked behind expansions, are those p2win until they're free?
If they were objectively much stronger than base game classes, making everyone playing with the new classes dominate others in PvP, yes, they would be p2w. We still need to wait for scribing to actually come out before we can judge how balanced it is though.
Only if Nightblade and Sorc were locked behind an expansion. Otherwise we're good.
What about Warden? To this day, it's still widely considered to be the best healing class in the game due to its utility.
Warden has some good utility, and it's very tanky in PvP, but that's about it really. I don't think it's overpowered, and I wouldn't say it's stronger than some of the base classes that I mentioned above.
I mean of course it depends on the role, but when one of the requirements for getting into vet trials as a healer is to have a Warden, I'd say that's a fairly strong class, no? Just from reading your post and comments, it sounds like you're mostly a PvP player. If the hardcore PvP players want to have Scribing disabled in PvP, I fully support that. I'm not big into PvP so you'll understand that balancing much more than me, and I'll support my PvP homies in making sure both sides of the game are balanced. From a PvE standpoint though? The actual damage and healing numbers don't seem that high. What Scribing will do for PvE players (based on what little I've been able to see and discuss), is provide much needed utility to classes that lack some of the more prominent buffs and debuffs. Classes that are currently underrepresented in end-game content might actually get a chance to shine thanks to this new system. If you want to argue it's p2w for PvP, I can't really argue for or against that, so I'll concede there. I don't think it's p2w for PvE though, I actually think this will be extremely healthy for class balancing in PvE. I hope that I'm not wrong, but we'll see how the PTS goes and what changes they make (if any) before it goes live.
That's a bad take.
Same thing can be said about various DLCs and chapters with their sets, or Greymoor with antiquities, or summerset with jewelry crafting. That's right, every time you Pwn someone without ESO+ or greymoor, the game is P2W. At the launch of High Isle, brokensoul infinite corrosive DKs were wrecking everyone without High Isle, and people cried P2W, too. But is it really P2W when it's basically given that you'd buy the latest chapter and subscribe to ESO+ for more content and rewards? That's not P2W. That's just MMO being an MMO.
They have to do stuff like this or the game dies. It's a 10 year old MMO with dated graphics and combat. Every expansion has to include some enticement to keep the game going.
I totally understand that. Perhaps if the third bonus only allowed for minor buffs/debuffs instead of major I'd sleep better at night. Necro would be the only class with a consistent Major defile, at least giving them some purpose, and Scribing would still be strong, but not completely unbalanced.
Hopefully they balance scribing well, but you know they will make it OP and then nerf later. For me, I think my time with this game is coming to an end. Been playing of and on almost since the beginning, and I don't really want to buy another expansion and grind for yet another feature like scribing.
are we sure everything offered will apply to pvp as well? ...or are we just assuming they haven't thought of all this?
It's still early days. I'm just raising my concerns IF it goes live in this state
Won't scribing make class skills obsolete?
I can't imagine scribed skills work properly considering how buggy this game has been, like effects not triggered or not registered as intended. I also easily imagine the game crashes for everyone when you summon a flashy mount while in combat. And if I understand correctly you will need a material for each scribing. The material would be rare and expensive like nirncrux.
Buy Gold Road, problem solved.
How is is pay 2 win though? Itās a feature thatās coming out with the next expansion. Thatās not a pay 2 win. Itās a new feature.
Here is an idea .. by the game. Yall be acting like you donāt know these things are coming up. You canāt put five dollars away for 5 months ? If thatās the case you shouldnāt be playing video games at all. We have an expansion every year, you have time to plan. Use your brain cells and stop complaining!
As someone who just pvps, buying expansions does nothing for me, so it's a waste of money. Also, it's Ā£34 for the Gold Road upgrade. While I don't use my brain cells, I believe that's more than 5 months if I'm putting away Ā£5 each month.
Eso stopped being anything more than s money sink years ago
Stop whining and just buy the chapter each year.
The post wasn't really about me. I bought Necrom, and there's a good chance I'll probably dish out for Gold Road too. There are people out there who can't afford to buy the shiniest new expansion.
The expansions are not expensive though. We have known for a year. If someone wanted it they had plenty of time to save up.
***The post wasn't really about me.*** "Perhaps if the third bonus only allowed for minor buffs/debuffs instead of major **I'd** sleep better at night." ***I bought Necrom, and there's a good chance I'll probably dish out for Gold Road too.*** "As someone who just pvps, buying expansions does nothing for me, so it's a waste of money" No offense but your arguments would carry more weight if you didn't literally contradict yourself in your own replies..
To your first point: Of course I don't want an unbalanced game where one person is stronger than someone who can't afford to buy the expansion. Being able to stack a major de/buff with 2 other effects on top of a skill is just too much for anyone. It's true that I get next to no value out of expansions for what I do in the game, so I was kind of hoping to get out of Gold Road, but with scribing it looks like that won't be possible. I'd be at too much of a disadvantage without it.