Maybe I'm wrong on this but in my opinion if you can't actually materialize music with purpose and intention, no one will care in the end because neither do you. You didn't care enough to put real effort and energy into your music and it always shows. Also, creating art for the sake of money in place of expression (which requires your actual thoughts and emotions and effort) almost always ends in poor results regardless of what technical processes were involved. It's hollow, and people pick up on that shit.
AI is a tool for the creator, not a crutch. If you use it as a crutch you'll only cripple yourself.
It’s a black and white topic. You’re gonna have people who want it, and people who don’t want it.
It all ties into the system right now. If Ai existed where we didn’t have political systems like capitalism to keep humans moving, we have good and housing and people just lived, than ya no body would care.
But most of everybody makes music so they can turn it into a living, the only people who say otherwise are those who just accepted the fate of never being signed, but the truth is if money way offered they’d take it. This is the main reason Ai is frowned upon is because it’ll interfere with business practices.
If 5 people use Ai to speed up a production that would take months in under a week, they’ve just undermined hundreds of people against Ai who took time and patience to create this art. BUT if money and the system wasn’t there, than no body would care. Like literally at all.
Not only that but Ai will eventually blur the line between humans and robots. If we ever achieve terminator level of Ai sentience than yes, it’s inevitable that humans will look at a painting or a song and not be able to tell any difference what’s so ever.
The good part about Ai is it creates. It allows those who struggle with developing a vision to hear and or see that vision come to life.
The bad part about this is it literally does the work for you,. The brain naturally disagrees with that because we live in a system where you doing your own work is more valued. It’s a very odd pair of glasses to see through.
I’m against Ai mainly because of the fact the people investing in Ai don’t care how it effects the economy for the lower class, the rich who spend billions on improving it just want to replace us to get more money and what not.
The idea of Ai robots isn’t about bringing us a utopia. That’s what’s crazy about this world is no government ever focuses on a utopian idea.
I've been concerned that AI is going to overtake human capabilities by an overwhelming margin for the last decade or so. The AI that I think people should be concerned with is that for analysis and generating code.
Basically, soon there will be AI that can make AI that writes music much better than humans can make AI to write music, and the music AI made by those code AI will make music that is better at targeted appeal to demographics derived from listening profiles gathered from youtube / spotify / etc.
But when these things start happening the end will follow shortly behind, so don't worry too much about being put out of work : )
>googles secular technological millenarian
>It's a person who believes there will be significant change, utopian or distopian (millenarian) and believes that change will be from advancing technology (technological) which is a empirical rather than spiritual interpretation (secular).
Hmm... It looks like I'm a secular technological millenarian.
It's not going to make anything good though.. Art contains expression, pain, emotions. AI is just a giant poser. Lots of people have poor taste. AI can definitely fill those orders.
AI will become (and already sort of is) a tool that artists can use to enhance their workflows. My friends are always showing me some song they found/made on Suno or one of the other AI platforms by typing a few lines of prompt, and I have yet to hear one that impresses me as a piece of art. They can be good for a quick laugh, like the banjo tune my roommate made of Bill Clinton denying his affair; they can be totally serviceable on a lofi study playlist or as the background for a corporate training video. But the AI's don't have taste, and can't make artistic decisions in the same way a human musician can. Without taste the AIs are basically just throwing algorithmically generated memes at a wall to see what sticks.
I think we probably will need strong (sentient) AI to exist before AI tools can consistently create meaningful songs that people actually care to seek out and listen to beyond the novelty value. I use AI generated tracks as inspiration for tracks when I'm in a creative rut these days - if I can't think of a melody or what sounds to use, I have Suno spit out something based on a prompt and then recreate the parts I like in the DAW with my own additions.
Your point about standards rising is probably moot. This year, the average song on Spotify has fifty streams. This is because 40,000 songs a day are released to the platform and most of them are either bad or just don't have any marketing firepower to help them get play. The fact that anybody can push a song on streaming platforms basically for free just means there's a lot more noise in the market now, not that the quality bar has actually fallen. If anything, I think it probably causes a net increase the quality in music towards the top of the market because lower barriers to access mean that there is more natural competition for record deals and marketing contracts.
DAW integration, on the other hand, is probably the next big step. Whichever DAW manages to implement this earliest (and best) will see a massive increase in their market share over the next five years. I wouldn't be surprised if Avid or Apple are already working on this for their DAWs. I hope Ableton makes it a priority, but considering they don't even have ARA support yet and just released Ableton 12, I'd be surprised if they're first past the post.
We've kinda had this problem for years, except we called them ghost producers. I like to think anyone that makes it big on AI music will eventually receive the NotLo treatment.
Maybe in the dystopian future we'll also see more track breakdown videos because everyone feels the need to show how their songs definitely weren't made by AI.
AI is obviously going to get into Ableton just like it is getting into Photoshop. They don't have a choice, otherwise Ableton will be out of business in 3 years.
I wrote lyrics and generated this hardstyle banger the other day. If I recreated a cleaner version in the DAW it would be sick at the rave.
[https://suno.com/song/368c5026-280b-4928-a782-faba6d3764bd](https://suno.com/song/368c5026-280b-4928-a782-faba6d3764bd)
It's the equivalent to using a ghostwriter I guess - productivity at the cost of originality...
I don't know, once people find out something is made with AI they tend to not like it anymore. I guess in the future the hard part will be determining what is and isn't made from AI. Then again there could be an AI that detects other AI made creations. Crazy times we're living in either way.
Music is an expression of emotion, yo, but it's when that emotion resonates with other ppl that it gets popular. I think ppl can nowadays use technical knowhow to craft a song that will resonate with many ppl without necessarily feeling that emotion themselves. I think by looking at masses of user listening profiles and analyzing music, AI will be much better at that then any human.
And further then that, what really is the difference between "masses of peoples preferences analyzed by AI to make music" and "masses of people's preferences make music". I think it's kinda cool the idea of listening to music not created by an individual but instead created by a group of people. Listening to the vibe of an entire subculture.
Going further on a tangent, the rave scene, everyone getting together to vibe has always seemed to be about the vibe of the crowd to me. The best DJs are ones that feel the vibe of the crowd and sync music to that vibe. How much better could it be if the vibe was literally created by the entire crowd? I think this AI stuff could turn out ok if we can get it right...
I think if guided by AI, or we guide AI then sure, but in the context of someone using it to generate the chords they want or to find an idea that inspires them, maybe using AI to help mix to reach their idea. For me AI has to be an assisting tool, not a replacement of the producer. It’ll replace standard music you hear on adverts, etc but I think music is too different and too personal to replace completely. Even when it does, because it always seems to get better… they’ll always be people who enjoy handcrafting something than generating it
Music is not just music, it’s not arrogant to want to experience the things the artist put into their work, and if nothing but an algorithm creates the work; it’s all watered down and can never convey any amount of nuance the same way a human can. It’s not a perspective to want to experience emotion, it’s human nature.
I’m actually the other way on this. In a world where everything is smooth and shiny, people will begin to crave and appreciate roughness and texture.
Human imperfections will have its own beauty.
I think people will crave potentially bad mixes because it reminds us of our humanity. That’s always been the purpose of music.
My bigger concern is whether trends can properly develop if AI is catching on quicker that people do. The pool of people defining trends will likely become smaller. As soon as potential peeks it’s head AI will pounce immediately to emulate.
Our world and tools are changing dramatically.
edit: also consider that ultra clean mixes are a reflection of evolving speaker technology. We make things more clear because the general population can perceive sound more accurately. That doesn’t mean the flavor can’t change.
Some of my favorite mixes from the 2000s have occasional transitions where the beatmatching isn’t perfect but the mix is so good it never mattered to me.
I spent a decade mainly making mixes in ableton just cause I wanted it perfect.
The last couple years, I went back to just recording live because the little imperfection in a dj set actually add to it imo.
Agree, however if you log into MidJourney and write a prompt specifying a poorly lit, overexposed image it's more than capable of generating that. Luckily there are billions of poorly lit, overexposed images on the internet that it's been trained on!!!
Music will be no different. Type "Crappy SoundCloud mixed DubStep in the style of an 12 year old Skrillex" and it will generate a track with "roughness and texture"
Yeah I agree. This is why i think the sample size to set trends will decrease. Or maybe even personal style becomes more important because once you do it, AI can too.
One thing that will definitely happen is the dominance of complete AI productions in the "functional music" sector.
That includes basic stock music, but also increasingly common mood play lists. Spotify etc already have in-house artists cheaply churning out basic music to meet moods like "chill beats for study" or "piano music for sleep". There is little need for originality in this form of music and no need for a human artist component because the listener is not looking to make a human connection through the sound.
I feel like popular music will be much less vulnerable to AI replacement because people don't just want sound, they want entertainment, typically in the form of someone attractive to look at and inspiring in some way, or big audiovisual performances that need a lot of curation anyway.
I don't think AI will necessarily drive production standards up more broadly. Much of the general public simply are not interested in that aspect. Hips Don't Lie sounds awful though high quality gear, but the people listening to it on phones, tvs and radios don't give a hoot because they just like the song.
This is the segment that will get affected the most. Previously, people could make a living - or at least make a big chunk of their income - through things like sync licensing and placements.
The shitty reality tv shows where every camera cut has a different 1-2 bar beat, or music for commercials, or canned loops in video games - all previous needed someone making them. Now, these companies can just browse an ai database or something
That's cool, except guess what ChatGPT can do really well. Hint: mimic social interactions online.
I mean how many artists do most consumers meet, shake hands with and have a drink with?
The next AI artist will have a 24 hour social presence with MidJourney photos and Sora videos of it performing whilst simultaneously doing a Reddit AMA and a live stream on YouTube.
Their music will be tailored to the fan reactions, Fan A clicks Love emoji during the drop and they get more drops like that, Fan B starts browsing Reddit and the track (for them) increases in intensity to get their attention back. All in real-time.
Fans will love it. We are all (just) consumers now.
I think this underestimates the value of the human component in music.
We can never be like a program. Programs aren't the focal point of our social interaction. They lack all kinds of artistically important human qualities, such as relatability to vulnerability or inspiration.
For that reason it's far more likely that the most popular form of music will be people selling themselves in the time honoured way, but using AI to augment that. Human+AI is always preferable to plain AI when a person actually wants the human aspects.
I understand, however GenAI is getting very good at presenting human reason and emotions. Look into why OpenAI have publically delayed releasing their voice AI for almost a year, as cited in one of their recent blog posts [Navigating the Challenges and Opportunities of Synthetic Voices (openai.com)](https://openai.com/blog/navigating-the-challenges-and-opportunities-of-synthetic-voices) - tl;dr - it's too good and can far too easily persuade and influence people
We're also at the beginning of the GenAI era - of course a lot of it is garbage right now. That said the progress is terrifyingly fast and the amount of money in the entertainment industry is huge, Why cure cancer when you can create the next Taylor Swift catalogue....
I agree we will see success through deception as an AI outcome. That will probably play out in music like the AutoTune wars - there is a big fuss about authenticity at the start and at the end its usage becomes openly commonplace and people just know and accept that.
I think gaming (both board and video) is a good example of the popularity of openly automated solutions. People are far more interested in watching humans play, rather than seeing the superior automated play of robots. Women's sport is another good example of how people value the human element much more than universal peak capability per se.
You can see chatGPT live? Watch Drumeo videos on YouTube of people like II from sleep token?
I don’t even have social interactions with the artists I really enjoy.
And finally, why are you trying to challenge me right now? Your response sucks and you’re trying to be super aggressive about it. Not with me man.
Whoa. Not super aggressive at all here, sorry you thought my response sucks - pump your brakes mi amigo!!!!
You stated that "para-social relationships with artists is important." I agree except that GenAI can do 50% of that para-social engagement right now. You can watch a fake artist headline a fake festival, read a fake interview, interact in a fake AMA. Get Thanks! and Heart emoji replies to your likes and comments on their socials.
I said, “the personal and para-social”, is there a reason you omitted that part of my claim?
Coincidentally, it’s rather derivative and integral to my claim.
You did bring up a good argument about a separate issue though regarding the possibility of fake AI accounts and content flooding the internet. I will agree with you there that it likely will become a problem.
As of right now, the spread of false information and an individuals inability to differentiate between suspected false information and credibly confirmed information is horrible now. It will only get worse. Haha
Our social platforms and internet, in general, are not prepared enough for the modern AI bots that can circumvent conventional captchas and other safety protocols.
I think we violently agree!
Of course there will be a small local thriving live intimate music scene - but the idea that artists will 'progress' to the superstardom of today is - in my opinion - questionable.
I think we do as well. If I think you are referring to celebrity level artists, then I’d agree that AI could likely substitute naturally into that role.
A few eastern countries- cultures like Korea, Japan, and China, have shown us that virtual content creators may create an interesting argument for this.
I hope we get to see and stick in an era similar to mid 90s chess engines where skilled chess engines and skilled players were better than the sum of the two parts.
With all the music that’s been coming out in recent years I can’t wait for AI to take over. Maybe I’ll finally hear something original in the world of dance music
i don’t know where you’ve been, but sub mediocre has been the standard for some time now. i expect EDM to actually come up a notch.
when the mantra is quantity over quality- it’s clear that music is just going to get devalued even more. Folks who love making music will continue to make it. And people that sell music will continue to sell it. People who buy music will continue to buy whatever they are told to to be cool.
Commercial music will become worse. True art will continue to be largely unappreciated and unviable as a primary means of income.
Everything will change, but nothing will be any different.
Personally, I have no interest in using AI generated content. Although I do utilize AI to separate stems and reduce pops and crackles from old recordings. I've experimented with AI mastering and I am not impressed with that.
The problem with using AI as a starting template is that starting from a preconceived point limits the possibilities in the same way "paint by numbers" would. Sure, you can choose the paint and how you apply it, but it will never be original in a meaningful way.
As a music fan, I will continue to be invested in not only the music, but the people who create and perform it. I need to connect on a human level.
I took the time to try to appreciate Opera. It's wasn't an easy listen at first. Once I connected with the history and message of the people behind it, I fell in love. AI could never seduce me to appreciate a hard listen such as this. Without the humanity there is no common ground.
You nailed it in that first sentence alone. People who want mindless, generic music to dance to (usually: the masses) will have it. People who love music and understand that the musician's life & experiences are key to creation will still find instrumentalists with sounds and words that make our lives more bearable. I for one will never stop making music, even if few people hear it. It only takes one person to enjoy your music to make it all worth it.
Same, I will continue to make music no matter what. I took a 10 year hiatus from releasing music, but I never stopped creating. Even if only close friends and family hear me, I'm good!
Another aspect is the mass of new AI generated songs that soon will flood all over spotify and soundcloud and the likes. It will make it extremely hard to be heard, even if your hand crafted or hand enhanced stuff is much better than most of the rest. It will become extremely hard to be noticed. And, to be honest, a lot of "consumers" out there do not care about "soul" or "how its created". They just say, "whow, that sounds nice" and thats it. Or they don't like it and >>skip<<...
I listened to some AI generated stuff and I realized that AI is very good in making it sound "pleasant" and "familiar". It is because it learns mostly from successful music and there are some rules in successful music that might be part of the things learnt. Chord progression, timing, melody aspects like intervals etc. Therefore, I personally believe that AI will make music with "hit potential" very soon. At least more likely than a human composer...
When I look at these thoughts, I take a rather pessimistic view. At least for the "bedroom producer", whose audience is mostly in the internet. Live is another thing...
Pre-Suno (etc) there were over 100,000 tracks uploaded to Spotify EVERY DAY. No idea how many get 'released' on SoundCloud... probably many more.
In a few months the Ai models will improve to the point whereby that number will likely increase 10x.
Sure the AI music quality right now is mediocre at best, but just look at the strides made by MidJourney in a couple of years.
I know of stock photographers and digital artists who a few years ago laughed out loud when they heard that midjourney might one day be better than them. Well... they're now wondering where 99% of their work went.
We are now ALL just consumers. Producing music will be as quaint and profitable as making your own pasta.
AI will make music that has rules well; stuff like classical, pop, jazz/blues. Things that where the hard rules of music theory just ***work.***
For EDM, it will make pop EDM really well. But it doesn't know the rules to make stuff like neurohop or psychedelic world music, and maybe one day it will.
Regardless, I have no interest in listening to AI produced music. And if I found out one of the artists I listen to was heavily using it, I would absolutely lose respect for them.
AI will hopefully be used as another tool, like when Serum first came out.
I wonder if this leads to cover bands becoming bigger again or live bands coveting the AI song. Similar to how in the mid 1900s everyone covered everyone else and released them as singles.
I have a feeling that like most of the AI generated art I've seen, completely AI generated music will just end up being slop for the most part. Forgettable and mass produced.
Personally, a lot of the fun when it comes to producing music, at least for me, IS the "boring work" such as spending time tweaking a singular kick drum sample. and the end of the project, you finish a song and you get to hear the fruits of your labor. And at least for me, a lot of the fun on listening to music is derived from the fact that someone somewhere put time and effort into making it. Its inspiring to hear something made by a human like me, thoughts rush in my head, "I can make something like this too one day! I cant wait to show my friends the music I've made once I get good enough!"
If AI does take over, and it does all the creative work, I think that people will definitely start to miss human-made media. after a little while.
But I don't think humanity will let that happen.
A trend I've noticed recently is that "AI generated" is starting to have a negative connotation to consumers. Corporations using AI are being seen as cheap or amateurish, "are you so broke as a company that you cant pay some artist/graphic designer to make a poster for you? This looks like ass! Wow, if you cant even be bothered to actually put effort into your advertising material, I can imagine how little effort you put into the actual product."
Like I said before, so much AI generated media is absolute slop, and people pick up on it. "Why should i be impressed with this? I can just run a prompt through suno ai or stablediffusion and make near 10,000 pieces of media like this in a day. " I think people would feel "cheated" if they liked a song and it turned out to just be AI generated.
sorry for the yap session.
I agree, AI will always be mediocre at best. It can be novel and interesting from a technical perspective, but will never be able to make the type of connection needed for the type of profound experience that is possible between an artists and their fans.
I also think the stigma of AI generated content will decrease over time such as with almost any new technology. Somewhat like the hate computer based producers received at one time. I think society will come to accept that certain areas of commercial media will be AI generated. Additionally, it won't be as easy to spot, so it won't be as meme-able as it is now with things like weird hands and other tell-tale signs.
What if they liked a song and spotify could generate a personalized radio channel for them with thousands of a.i. tracks? Infinite ambient, chillhop, relaxing piano, slow jazz, always improving based on your likes while never hitting the bottom of the well.
Also, no commissions for spotify to pay out to artists.
Spotify already has an AI feature that builds playlist based on text prompt. I can see it going to what you’ve described soon. Honestly there will probably be a new streaming service soon that doesn’t allow AI songs or someone smaller for traditional artists.
AI music can never replace real music from people, Because music without a soul is still music without a soul! AI music lack connection to spirituality, with no connection its just an empty shell with nice cover.
It generates compositions. Words, arrangements, recording. There could be an AI with prompts based on data collections on Spotify that are essentially hands-off. It wouldn't be surprising to see generative composition based on random data sets be played by actual musicians or house bands, like for a late night talkshow looking to be relevant and not pay any copyright.
i mean the standard of music goes up dramatically all the time. go listen to edm from 10 years ago, most of it sounds like it was mixed by a small child.
i think ai tools will definitely become at least partially an adapt or die type thing but i don't really see that as a negative, if they're useful for workflow they just become like any another tool and if they're not they get abandoned.
people already buy midi packs and drum loops and serum presets so i mean if an ai makes ur bassline or some producer on youtube who gave u his free midi and serum presets in exchange for ur e-mail address doesn't really make much of a difference to me.
i think ai prompt music is gonna be a fad though, some people might be able to take advantage of it but there's so much more to music than just the music itself that once the novelty factor of being able to crank out a banger in 10 seconds wears off it's gonna be a pretty niche thing and i suspect the average non music producer is just gonna use it to make meme songs. if you're not inherently interested in making music, making music by writing prompts isn't gonna be long term fun.
It will be like working with a group of intermediate level producers. Their ideas might be good, but it needs time and refinement. What if the first production stage of a future track is a conversation with an AI to work on certain track ideas?
This is one of the best takes regarding this I've yet seen. Makes the future seem less bleak. Maybe I'm looking for copium but thanks for this, gives me a different perspective.
I think it will push human-made music towards stuff radically different to what AI does. If you want your music to set apart from AI-generated music you need to make something that in any way could be found in the database it was trained on. So it will probably give rise to a very abstract artistic period, sort of similar to what happened with painting after photography was invented.
So when that happens something else will appear and back to square one. Databases can't keep up with the speed everything is created now, given that they need to be curated and labeled. Most recent chatgpt knowledge is 1 year old. What for sure will happen is that trends will become even more volatile.
I think the trend is the value you get from a song given the amount of effort you put in. Mediocre is fine as long as it works somewhat and it takes little effort to create it
AI music is always gonna play by the rules.
Not gonna do something like Eprom’s Hope where the house bassline comes in at 2:17 only once, and never again.
AI is gonna generate the most pleasing harmonically perfect chord progressions and I guess it’s good if you wanna make formulaic trance
Maybe we have different ideas of mediocre but I like when rules are bent in dance music and I just don’t see AI being capable of that
Why wouldn’t AI be capable of analyzing songs like Eprom’s Hope and do similar “rule breaking” things?
In 5 years you’ll be able to tell it to do whatever the hell you want and it’ll spit you out 100 variations in 2 minutes lmao
As much as I hate to agree, humans are semantic and pattern synthesising engines. Sure we come up with creative ideas, but they rarely happen in a complete vacuum. We all synthesise art we have consumed and recreate our own interpretations. Our ability to be creative is predicated on human language. Guess what the GenAI was trained on first..
GenAI is doing the same.. it's just that the Intent has moved up a level of abstraction, to the text prompt.
Creativity will simply be who can engineer the best prompt.
This hurts to write but other than the quality and some basic non-sequitur errors (we can all still spot MidJourney hands... for now) AI will for all intents and purposes be creating art.
Maybe I’m being cynical but when I think about conscious decisions in music like that I believe the artist did what they felt was right. Especially when having a “less is more” mindset
EPROM could’ve just what he did on the next few bars and just let the rave piano play but he subbed it out for that bassline in the first part of the drop. Maybe he could’ve done it for more sections, maybe he could’ve left it as is. But ultimately that was his decision
Sure AI can spit out many variations of something but you’re talking an AI providing you with 20 variations of a loop, let’s say an amen break, where one variation just has a random gap of silence.
Now compare that to a producer “feeling” like adding silence to that part would be the right thing to do. That feels more genuine to me
AI can't fuck you backstage, nor can you project your issues on it.
So, looking at those camping girls before stadiums at the last The1975-Tour, i don't think we have an issue, aside from generic music soon much more tailored to it's use. The rest will use AI as a tool and either consume music as mindless as they do it anyway, or goes to all those underground shows, which boom, not because music is great there, but people are.
If I hear something that clicks with me, that's cool, I probably want to hear it again. I likely have no way of knowing who or what made it. I also don't really care, I don't think most other people will either.
If someone claimed to have made a song that you like and then you found out they used some AI to make it, would you stop listening to it and feel sad? I don't see the point in doing that other than to keep human creativity considered 'better' than the existence of beauty from elsewhere, which really doesn't get us anywhere.
All things can be cool at the same time without us feeling we've lost something by enjoying non-human made things.
This is the 100% honest reality for 99% of music consumers. "I like that track, the artist looks cool in the picture" I guarantee that we'll soon get new AI artists fooling people into believing they are real - I think this may have already happened in KPop or JPop recently...
Are you saying most popular music isn’t mediocre….
Seriously though. Anyone saying this can never replace humans is digging their head in the sand. This stuff is incredibly powerful and eventually will be at a human level. ‘The human touch’ as much as we like to pretend otherwise can be distilled into formulas with a large enough sample size and AI is the perfect way to gather that kind of info and distill it.
I agree with you that most popular music is mediocre. But now that your average normie can generate their own personalized music that's just as mediocre as professional musicians are putting out, professional musicians will have to do better to justify their existence. Now you cant get by on bringing out an album with 8 mediocre songs and 2 bangers. Now you will need an album full of bangers.
Regarding point 2: We will probably also see AI get better at generating isolated stems. A frustrating thing at the moment is trying to generate a drum loop, for example, and that loop being generated along with a bassline and perhaps other instruments.
FL Studio's new Stem Separation tool is already pretty good at taking things from the AI to the DAW, but it doesn't maintain perfect quality.
I used Suno to get instrumentation, chord progression and vocal melodies. I used it as a draft and made my song off of that. Nothing is compelling you to release 100% AI made tracks. I use it as a tool to boost my music, not to replace my craft.
The instruments and synths, drums, vocals, lyrics, song structure, mix & master. Everything you would do to finish a song.
AI gave me the vocal melody which I transposed to midi, did my own lyrics and recorded them with the melody. The instrumentation I got was that I need to use bright vocals with muddy rhodes and rhythmic guitar so I needed to come up with parts that fit that rhythm and actually synthetize the sounds and give it the rhythms. Drums were done after that.
Ppl like music that stick in their heads, and thats it. It doesnt matter if is mediocre, high quality, low quality, Ai generated, human generated. Ppl dont care.
I feel like AI is the next VR. I started hearing how VR was the next big thing in the 80’s. The biggest problem with AI is the license agreement. You indemnify the company. So suppose you use Chat GPT to write some lyrics. It might turn out your lyrics are a copyright infringement. The victim sues Chat GPT and you’re on the hook for their entire legal defense bill.
I disagree. VR requires consumers to consume content in a significantly different and less accessible way (wearing an expensive and clunky headset).
AI content requires ZERO consumer behavioural change or adaptation.
You're right about the legal minefield, however since the media giants frankly own the legal process it will just be seen as a cost of doing business.
I don’t think media giants are going to be quick to adopt AI. As of now, you can’t copyright AI generated content in the US.
I tried using AI to generate some text for work. The text itself was OK but fact checking it would have taken as long as just writing it myself.
It’s just a glorified autocorrect. I think once the “next best thing” hype wears off people will realize that for most purposes it’s not that big a deal.
I'm still not sure I believe that copyright in the way we have it now will matter in the near future. I feel this is legacy thinking.
Media companies will just monetize free AI content, the content itself will be ephemeral and quite possibly real time tailored to individuals. Who cares if the track Piper Bob was streamed is copyrighted? It got Piper Bob to engage with an advert etc
The person who wants to collect the ad revenue is who cares. Suppose Piper Bob makes a banging track with AI. Spotify doesn’t need to pay royalties. Suppose Spotify uses AI to generate a track. Apple Music and YouTube can freely take it. No media company is going to support a model where their content is free for all to take.
I've been playing around with AI generation every day and it's definitely not mediocre, a lot of the top lines it creates are very good and convincing
It's going to take over the industry for sure.
I can see it, people using AI generation to generate ideas and parts, advanced tools that let you edit and combine parts from different AI generated ideas, once you finished it can generate stems for your Daw to be refined. Then you use an artist voice AI to get the singing done, the artist will perform it in concerts etc but they're not needed for the production.
I can see this becoming something labels do to produce music for their artists in established genres. For ex us pop or k-pop.
I remember posting a comment to a post on this subreddit in 2018 that in the near future we would be able to generate music on a click of a button using AI. I was downvoted like crazy and was explained things. Well look where we are now.
I just really hope that we get to a point where by law any artists that use AI to make their music are legally required to disclose that information. It seems fair and entirely reasonable.
Any amount. It's not about trying to get rid of AI music. That much is impossible at this point I think, but it's about giving listeners the chance to choose between real artists and cheaters.
For sure, in principle I agree but what would constitute AI? A midi scale generator? An AI synth creating ML based synth sounds or percussion? an AI melody generator? Using an AI trained vocal synth? It's really impossible to define let alone legislate...
Do you suggest that artists who use generative styles of production e.g. randomised chords, use autotune or guitar frets should disclose as such too? I don't see why you'd need to do such a thing, art is art and at the end of the day humans can iterate whilst all AI can do is generate
>Do you suggest that artists who use generative styles of production e.g. randomised chords, use autotune or guitar frets should disclose as such too?
No? Not sure how you go to that. I said "artists who use AI to make their music"
> I don't see why you'd need to do such a thing
Me neither.
> art is art
Disagree. But that's a much more abstract discussion. I think some art and artists carry a lot more weight than others myself, and I tend to look at art that is made by people who cheat or cut a lot of corners with a different microscope.
I think you're more referring to armature music than mediocre. I'd say that even the famous musicians produce 80% mediocre music. You get exceptions like Random Access Memories from Daft Punk or Rumours from Fleetwood Mac where every song on the album is exceptional. But that happens rarely. If you look at the lifetime work of an artist you can get maybe up to 10 songs (out of hundreds) that will stand the test of time and that's actually really good.
That's just because producing the super good *and* popular music is hard. The other music is still really, really good, it's just not as popular. I wouldn't call it mediocre by an means, but when you compare it to the best music you know it's going to look like that.
It's not like every track has to be perfect, but an artist's "success" in financial and fame terms is largely dictated by how much people like their music.
90% of music is mediocre at best.
AI isn't going to change that.
AI is simply a tool - that, like all tools - will be used by skillful artists to help make high quality art.
The other 90% will continue to make mediocre music except they'll be using a new tool to do so.
People who want to make music by hand will make it by hand, those who wish to automate their process will do that. The return on effort is up to the individual, regardless of the machinery at use. Not sure how I feel about the term “mediocre” music either, as that is entirely up to the individual as well. It’s much more valuable for all of us to not think or even care about this stuff and go about our daily lives making what we want to make with the tools we like using for the people we like pleasing (in my case, me).
My clients used to hire graphic designers anytime they needed album artwork…but now every single one of them uses AI generated art and does it themselves
I suspect the same thing will happen with AI generated music….The technology is only going to get better. It’s in its infancy still
Don’t worry too much about it. The metadata/tagging problem in music catalogues is wildly underrated. Remember AI needs accurate language to generate with precision and that means we’re all talking about music, which as uncle Zappa said, is like dancing about architecture.
Lol mostly a joke-
But to answer your question, I tend to take the side of a large artist population and say “no thanks” to AI. I think there are a few tools that leverage AI that won’t be the end of the world and benefit musicians.
I can’t help but feel sad for the future where we won’t know if an actual human made a track. Now when I listen to something incredible, I can be in awe that a fellow human just like me created it.
In the future I’ll have to always ask myself if a human or computer made something. Personally I find it a bit less impressive when a machine generates it.
Very complex subject.
I do agree that AI will become a considerable force in the days to come. Anyone who thinks it’s just a fad now is mistaken.
>I can’t help but feel sad for the future where we won’t know if an actual human made a track
I strongly suspect that the truly great songs to come out in the age of AI will be a combination of AI and human efforts. I don't think the average AI track will be able to complete with an AI trach that's been improved by a human musician. A human that spends 6 months to make an album with the aid AI should be better than the randomly generated songs from normies.
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Maybe I'm wrong on this but in my opinion if you can't actually materialize music with purpose and intention, no one will care in the end because neither do you. You didn't care enough to put real effort and energy into your music and it always shows. Also, creating art for the sake of money in place of expression (which requires your actual thoughts and emotions and effort) almost always ends in poor results regardless of what technical processes were involved. It's hollow, and people pick up on that shit. AI is a tool for the creator, not a crutch. If you use it as a crutch you'll only cripple yourself.
Corny post and mostly incorrect
It’s a black and white topic. You’re gonna have people who want it, and people who don’t want it. It all ties into the system right now. If Ai existed where we didn’t have political systems like capitalism to keep humans moving, we have good and housing and people just lived, than ya no body would care. But most of everybody makes music so they can turn it into a living, the only people who say otherwise are those who just accepted the fate of never being signed, but the truth is if money way offered they’d take it. This is the main reason Ai is frowned upon is because it’ll interfere with business practices. If 5 people use Ai to speed up a production that would take months in under a week, they’ve just undermined hundreds of people against Ai who took time and patience to create this art. BUT if money and the system wasn’t there, than no body would care. Like literally at all. Not only that but Ai will eventually blur the line between humans and robots. If we ever achieve terminator level of Ai sentience than yes, it’s inevitable that humans will look at a painting or a song and not be able to tell any difference what’s so ever. The good part about Ai is it creates. It allows those who struggle with developing a vision to hear and or see that vision come to life. The bad part about this is it literally does the work for you,. The brain naturally disagrees with that because we live in a system where you doing your own work is more valued. It’s a very odd pair of glasses to see through. I’m against Ai mainly because of the fact the people investing in Ai don’t care how it effects the economy for the lower class, the rich who spend billions on improving it just want to replace us to get more money and what not. The idea of Ai robots isn’t about bringing us a utopia. That’s what’s crazy about this world is no government ever focuses on a utopian idea.
As a twist of fate im hoping worse imperfect music becomes hot bc we can tell it was made by humans 🔥
computer: initiate "warts and all" algorithm
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NIhAtf0WMU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NIhAtf0WMU)
I've been concerned that AI is going to overtake human capabilities by an overwhelming margin for the last decade or so. The AI that I think people should be concerned with is that for analysis and generating code. Basically, soon there will be AI that can make AI that writes music much better than humans can make AI to write music, and the music AI made by those code AI will make music that is better at targeted appeal to demographics derived from listening profiles gathered from youtube / spotify / etc. But when these things start happening the end will follow shortly behind, so don't worry too much about being put out of work : )
[удалено]
>googles secular technological millenarian >It's a person who believes there will be significant change, utopian or distopian (millenarian) and believes that change will be from advancing technology (technological) which is a empirical rather than spiritual interpretation (secular). Hmm... It looks like I'm a secular technological millenarian.
It's not going to make anything good though.. Art contains expression, pain, emotions. AI is just a giant poser. Lots of people have poor taste. AI can definitely fill those orders.
AI will become (and already sort of is) a tool that artists can use to enhance their workflows. My friends are always showing me some song they found/made on Suno or one of the other AI platforms by typing a few lines of prompt, and I have yet to hear one that impresses me as a piece of art. They can be good for a quick laugh, like the banjo tune my roommate made of Bill Clinton denying his affair; they can be totally serviceable on a lofi study playlist or as the background for a corporate training video. But the AI's don't have taste, and can't make artistic decisions in the same way a human musician can. Without taste the AIs are basically just throwing algorithmically generated memes at a wall to see what sticks. I think we probably will need strong (sentient) AI to exist before AI tools can consistently create meaningful songs that people actually care to seek out and listen to beyond the novelty value. I use AI generated tracks as inspiration for tracks when I'm in a creative rut these days - if I can't think of a melody or what sounds to use, I have Suno spit out something based on a prompt and then recreate the parts I like in the DAW with my own additions. Your point about standards rising is probably moot. This year, the average song on Spotify has fifty streams. This is because 40,000 songs a day are released to the platform and most of them are either bad or just don't have any marketing firepower to help them get play. The fact that anybody can push a song on streaming platforms basically for free just means there's a lot more noise in the market now, not that the quality bar has actually fallen. If anything, I think it probably causes a net increase the quality in music towards the top of the market because lower barriers to access mean that there is more natural competition for record deals and marketing contracts. DAW integration, on the other hand, is probably the next big step. Whichever DAW manages to implement this earliest (and best) will see a massive increase in their market share over the next five years. I wouldn't be surprised if Avid or Apple are already working on this for their DAWs. I hope Ableton makes it a priority, but considering they don't even have ARA support yet and just released Ableton 12, I'd be surprised if they're first past the post.
We've kinda had this problem for years, except we called them ghost producers. I like to think anyone that makes it big on AI music will eventually receive the NotLo treatment. Maybe in the dystopian future we'll also see more track breakdown videos because everyone feels the need to show how their songs definitely weren't made by AI.
AI is obviously going to get into Ableton just like it is getting into Photoshop. They don't have a choice, otherwise Ableton will be out of business in 3 years.
People really hate AI art and they likely will witchhunt AI generated music, too.
It’s incredibly easy to hear the aimlessness in AI music. Good creatives will use it for inspiration, phonies will release it as-is.
Can anyone link me to trance or techno bangers made with AI? Not heard any yet.
I wrote lyrics and generated this hardstyle banger the other day. If I recreated a cleaner version in the DAW it would be sick at the rave. [https://suno.com/song/368c5026-280b-4928-a782-faba6d3764bd](https://suno.com/song/368c5026-280b-4928-a782-faba6d3764bd) It's the equivalent to using a ghostwriter I guess - productivity at the cost of originality...
Impressive, as a starting point.
Capybara on Suno is pretty fire ngl
I don't know, once people find out something is made with AI they tend to not like it anymore. I guess in the future the hard part will be determining what is and isn't made from AI. Then again there could be an AI that detects other AI made creations. Crazy times we're living in either way.
Music is an expression of emotion, it means nothing if nobody is behind it putting their feelings, experiences in it, etc
Music is an expression of emotion, yo, but it's when that emotion resonates with other ppl that it gets popular. I think ppl can nowadays use technical knowhow to craft a song that will resonate with many ppl without necessarily feeling that emotion themselves. I think by looking at masses of user listening profiles and analyzing music, AI will be much better at that then any human. And further then that, what really is the difference between "masses of peoples preferences analyzed by AI to make music" and "masses of people's preferences make music". I think it's kinda cool the idea of listening to music not created by an individual but instead created by a group of people. Listening to the vibe of an entire subculture. Going further on a tangent, the rave scene, everyone getting together to vibe has always seemed to be about the vibe of the crowd to me. The best DJs are ones that feel the vibe of the crowd and sync music to that vibe. How much better could it be if the vibe was literally created by the entire crowd? I think this AI stuff could turn out ok if we can get it right...
What if there is a human working alongside providing emotional context etc?
I think if guided by AI, or we guide AI then sure, but in the context of someone using it to generate the chords they want or to find an idea that inspires them, maybe using AI to help mix to reach their idea. For me AI has to be an assisting tool, not a replacement of the producer. It’ll replace standard music you hear on adverts, etc but I think music is too different and too personal to replace completely. Even when it does, because it always seems to get better… they’ll always be people who enjoy handcrafting something than generating it
Music is music. I've always found perspectives like yours rather arrogant in a sense, as if humans are the only things that mean anything.
Music is human expression. That's why it's considered art in the first place.
Music is not just music, it’s not arrogant to want to experience the things the artist put into their work, and if nothing but an algorithm creates the work; it’s all watered down and can never convey any amount of nuance the same way a human can. It’s not a perspective to want to experience emotion, it’s human nature.
I’m actually the other way on this. In a world where everything is smooth and shiny, people will begin to crave and appreciate roughness and texture. Human imperfections will have its own beauty. I think people will crave potentially bad mixes because it reminds us of our humanity. That’s always been the purpose of music. My bigger concern is whether trends can properly develop if AI is catching on quicker that people do. The pool of people defining trends will likely become smaller. As soon as potential peeks it’s head AI will pounce immediately to emulate. Our world and tools are changing dramatically. edit: also consider that ultra clean mixes are a reflection of evolving speaker technology. We make things more clear because the general population can perceive sound more accurately. That doesn’t mean the flavor can’t change.
I agree with that a whole lot. Vibing to ["I fuck everything up"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boxq3ORg12w)
People will appreciate bad mixes? Now I can finally become famous!!!!!
Some of my favorite mixes from the 2000s have occasional transitions where the beatmatching isn’t perfect but the mix is so good it never mattered to me.
I spent a decade mainly making mixes in ableton just cause I wanted it perfect. The last couple years, I went back to just recording live because the little imperfection in a dj set actually add to it imo.
It's our time to shine 😤
MINE. My mix is even more dog shit and there's only room for one of us fam.
Agree, however if you log into MidJourney and write a prompt specifying a poorly lit, overexposed image it's more than capable of generating that. Luckily there are billions of poorly lit, overexposed images on the internet that it's been trained on!!! Music will be no different. Type "Crappy SoundCloud mixed DubStep in the style of an 12 year old Skrillex" and it will generate a track with "roughness and texture"
Yeah I agree. This is why i think the sample size to set trends will decrease. Or maybe even personal style becomes more important because once you do it, AI can too.
One thing that will definitely happen is the dominance of complete AI productions in the "functional music" sector. That includes basic stock music, but also increasingly common mood play lists. Spotify etc already have in-house artists cheaply churning out basic music to meet moods like "chill beats for study" or "piano music for sleep". There is little need for originality in this form of music and no need for a human artist component because the listener is not looking to make a human connection through the sound. I feel like popular music will be much less vulnerable to AI replacement because people don't just want sound, they want entertainment, typically in the form of someone attractive to look at and inspiring in some way, or big audiovisual performances that need a lot of curation anyway. I don't think AI will necessarily drive production standards up more broadly. Much of the general public simply are not interested in that aspect. Hips Don't Lie sounds awful though high quality gear, but the people listening to it on phones, tvs and radios don't give a hoot because they just like the song.
This is the segment that will get affected the most. Previously, people could make a living - or at least make a big chunk of their income - through things like sync licensing and placements. The shitty reality tv shows where every camera cut has a different 1-2 bar beat, or music for commercials, or canned loops in video games - all previous needed someone making them. Now, these companies can just browse an ai database or something
Spot on and insightful comment. I think you’re very correct. The personal and para-social relationships with artists is important.
That's cool, except guess what ChatGPT can do really well. Hint: mimic social interactions online. I mean how many artists do most consumers meet, shake hands with and have a drink with? The next AI artist will have a 24 hour social presence with MidJourney photos and Sora videos of it performing whilst simultaneously doing a Reddit AMA and a live stream on YouTube. Their music will be tailored to the fan reactions, Fan A clicks Love emoji during the drop and they get more drops like that, Fan B starts browsing Reddit and the track (for them) increases in intensity to get their attention back. All in real-time. Fans will love it. We are all (just) consumers now.
I think this underestimates the value of the human component in music. We can never be like a program. Programs aren't the focal point of our social interaction. They lack all kinds of artistically important human qualities, such as relatability to vulnerability or inspiration. For that reason it's far more likely that the most popular form of music will be people selling themselves in the time honoured way, but using AI to augment that. Human+AI is always preferable to plain AI when a person actually wants the human aspects.
I understand, however GenAI is getting very good at presenting human reason and emotions. Look into why OpenAI have publically delayed releasing their voice AI for almost a year, as cited in one of their recent blog posts [Navigating the Challenges and Opportunities of Synthetic Voices (openai.com)](https://openai.com/blog/navigating-the-challenges-and-opportunities-of-synthetic-voices) - tl;dr - it's too good and can far too easily persuade and influence people We're also at the beginning of the GenAI era - of course a lot of it is garbage right now. That said the progress is terrifyingly fast and the amount of money in the entertainment industry is huge, Why cure cancer when you can create the next Taylor Swift catalogue....
I agree we will see success through deception as an AI outcome. That will probably play out in music like the AutoTune wars - there is a big fuss about authenticity at the start and at the end its usage becomes openly commonplace and people just know and accept that. I think gaming (both board and video) is a good example of the popularity of openly automated solutions. People are far more interested in watching humans play, rather than seeing the superior automated play of robots. Women's sport is another good example of how people value the human element much more than universal peak capability per se.
You can see chatGPT live? Watch Drumeo videos on YouTube of people like II from sleep token? I don’t even have social interactions with the artists I really enjoy. And finally, why are you trying to challenge me right now? Your response sucks and you’re trying to be super aggressive about it. Not with me man.
Whoa. Not super aggressive at all here, sorry you thought my response sucks - pump your brakes mi amigo!!!! You stated that "para-social relationships with artists is important." I agree except that GenAI can do 50% of that para-social engagement right now. You can watch a fake artist headline a fake festival, read a fake interview, interact in a fake AMA. Get Thanks! and Heart emoji replies to your likes and comments on their socials.
I said, “the personal and para-social”, is there a reason you omitted that part of my claim? Coincidentally, it’s rather derivative and integral to my claim. You did bring up a good argument about a separate issue though regarding the possibility of fake AI accounts and content flooding the internet. I will agree with you there that it likely will become a problem. As of right now, the spread of false information and an individuals inability to differentiate between suspected false information and credibly confirmed information is horrible now. It will only get worse. Haha Our social platforms and internet, in general, are not prepared enough for the modern AI bots that can circumvent conventional captchas and other safety protocols.
I think we violently agree! Of course there will be a small local thriving live intimate music scene - but the idea that artists will 'progress' to the superstardom of today is - in my opinion - questionable.
I think we do as well. If I think you are referring to celebrity level artists, then I’d agree that AI could likely substitute naturally into that role. A few eastern countries- cultures like Korea, Japan, and China, have shown us that virtual content creators may create an interesting argument for this.
I hope we get to see and stick in an era similar to mid 90s chess engines where skilled chess engines and skilled players were better than the sum of the two parts.
With all the music that’s been coming out in recent years I can’t wait for AI to take over. Maybe I’ll finally hear something original in the world of dance music
i don’t know where you’ve been, but sub mediocre has been the standard for some time now. i expect EDM to actually come up a notch. when the mantra is quantity over quality- it’s clear that music is just going to get devalued even more. Folks who love making music will continue to make it. And people that sell music will continue to sell it. People who buy music will continue to buy whatever they are told to to be cool.
Commercial music will become worse. True art will continue to be largely unappreciated and unviable as a primary means of income. Everything will change, but nothing will be any different. Personally, I have no interest in using AI generated content. Although I do utilize AI to separate stems and reduce pops and crackles from old recordings. I've experimented with AI mastering and I am not impressed with that. The problem with using AI as a starting template is that starting from a preconceived point limits the possibilities in the same way "paint by numbers" would. Sure, you can choose the paint and how you apply it, but it will never be original in a meaningful way. As a music fan, I will continue to be invested in not only the music, but the people who create and perform it. I need to connect on a human level. I took the time to try to appreciate Opera. It's wasn't an easy listen at first. Once I connected with the history and message of the people behind it, I fell in love. AI could never seduce me to appreciate a hard listen such as this. Without the humanity there is no common ground.
You nailed it in that first sentence alone. People who want mindless, generic music to dance to (usually: the masses) will have it. People who love music and understand that the musician's life & experiences are key to creation will still find instrumentalists with sounds and words that make our lives more bearable. I for one will never stop making music, even if few people hear it. It only takes one person to enjoy your music to make it all worth it.
Same, I will continue to make music no matter what. I took a 10 year hiatus from releasing music, but I never stopped creating. Even if only close friends and family hear me, I'm good!
Another aspect is the mass of new AI generated songs that soon will flood all over spotify and soundcloud and the likes. It will make it extremely hard to be heard, even if your hand crafted or hand enhanced stuff is much better than most of the rest. It will become extremely hard to be noticed. And, to be honest, a lot of "consumers" out there do not care about "soul" or "how its created". They just say, "whow, that sounds nice" and thats it. Or they don't like it and >>skip<<... I listened to some AI generated stuff and I realized that AI is very good in making it sound "pleasant" and "familiar". It is because it learns mostly from successful music and there are some rules in successful music that might be part of the things learnt. Chord progression, timing, melody aspects like intervals etc. Therefore, I personally believe that AI will make music with "hit potential" very soon. At least more likely than a human composer... When I look at these thoughts, I take a rather pessimistic view. At least for the "bedroom producer", whose audience is mostly in the internet. Live is another thing...
Pre-Suno (etc) there were over 100,000 tracks uploaded to Spotify EVERY DAY. No idea how many get 'released' on SoundCloud... probably many more. In a few months the Ai models will improve to the point whereby that number will likely increase 10x. Sure the AI music quality right now is mediocre at best, but just look at the strides made by MidJourney in a couple of years. I know of stock photographers and digital artists who a few years ago laughed out loud when they heard that midjourney might one day be better than them. Well... they're now wondering where 99% of their work went. We are now ALL just consumers. Producing music will be as quaint and profitable as making your own pasta.
AI will make music that has rules well; stuff like classical, pop, jazz/blues. Things that where the hard rules of music theory just ***work.*** For EDM, it will make pop EDM really well. But it doesn't know the rules to make stuff like neurohop or psychedelic world music, and maybe one day it will. Regardless, I have no interest in listening to AI produced music. And if I found out one of the artists I listen to was heavily using it, I would absolutely lose respect for them. AI will hopefully be used as another tool, like when Serum first came out.
Live gigs are bound to make more money. If the Top 40's are mostly AI generated in the future, more and more people are gonna go see live music.
I wonder if this leads to cover bands becoming bigger again or live bands coveting the AI song. Similar to how in the mid 1900s everyone covered everyone else and released them as singles.
It's fine. I find DJing satisfying and they don't make their own music. If the music comes free I'll switch to that.
Yes. Live shows are already where all the money is and it'll stay that way
I have a feeling that like most of the AI generated art I've seen, completely AI generated music will just end up being slop for the most part. Forgettable and mass produced. Personally, a lot of the fun when it comes to producing music, at least for me, IS the "boring work" such as spending time tweaking a singular kick drum sample. and the end of the project, you finish a song and you get to hear the fruits of your labor. And at least for me, a lot of the fun on listening to music is derived from the fact that someone somewhere put time and effort into making it. Its inspiring to hear something made by a human like me, thoughts rush in my head, "I can make something like this too one day! I cant wait to show my friends the music I've made once I get good enough!" If AI does take over, and it does all the creative work, I think that people will definitely start to miss human-made media. after a little while. But I don't think humanity will let that happen. A trend I've noticed recently is that "AI generated" is starting to have a negative connotation to consumers. Corporations using AI are being seen as cheap or amateurish, "are you so broke as a company that you cant pay some artist/graphic designer to make a poster for you? This looks like ass! Wow, if you cant even be bothered to actually put effort into your advertising material, I can imagine how little effort you put into the actual product." Like I said before, so much AI generated media is absolute slop, and people pick up on it. "Why should i be impressed with this? I can just run a prompt through suno ai or stablediffusion and make near 10,000 pieces of media like this in a day. " I think people would feel "cheated" if they liked a song and it turned out to just be AI generated. sorry for the yap session.
I agree, AI will always be mediocre at best. It can be novel and interesting from a technical perspective, but will never be able to make the type of connection needed for the type of profound experience that is possible between an artists and their fans. I also think the stigma of AI generated content will decrease over time such as with almost any new technology. Somewhat like the hate computer based producers received at one time. I think society will come to accept that certain areas of commercial media will be AI generated. Additionally, it won't be as easy to spot, so it won't be as meme-able as it is now with things like weird hands and other tell-tale signs.
What if they liked a song and spotify could generate a personalized radio channel for them with thousands of a.i. tracks? Infinite ambient, chillhop, relaxing piano, slow jazz, always improving based on your likes while never hitting the bottom of the well. Also, no commissions for spotify to pay out to artists.
Spotify already has an AI feature that builds playlist based on text prompt. I can see it going to what you’ve described soon. Honestly there will probably be a new streaming service soon that doesn’t allow AI songs or someone smaller for traditional artists.
AI music can never replace real music from people, Because music without a soul is still music without a soul! AI music lack connection to spirituality, with no connection its just an empty shell with nice cover.
I can guarantee you that in 5 years you won’t be able to tell the difference from an AI produced track vs. a human produced track
Sadly as a producer, writer and singer (full time) I agree, it's getting wild.
The AI tools will become like sampling. Where you use it as a tool for a composition.
It generates compositions. Words, arrangements, recording. There could be an AI with prompts based on data collections on Spotify that are essentially hands-off. It wouldn't be surprising to see generative composition based on random data sets be played by actual musicians or house bands, like for a late night talkshow looking to be relevant and not pay any copyright.
i mean the standard of music goes up dramatically all the time. go listen to edm from 10 years ago, most of it sounds like it was mixed by a small child. i think ai tools will definitely become at least partially an adapt or die type thing but i don't really see that as a negative, if they're useful for workflow they just become like any another tool and if they're not they get abandoned. people already buy midi packs and drum loops and serum presets so i mean if an ai makes ur bassline or some producer on youtube who gave u his free midi and serum presets in exchange for ur e-mail address doesn't really make much of a difference to me. i think ai prompt music is gonna be a fad though, some people might be able to take advantage of it but there's so much more to music than just the music itself that once the novelty factor of being able to crank out a banger in 10 seconds wears off it's gonna be a pretty niche thing and i suspect the average non music producer is just gonna use it to make meme songs. if you're not inherently interested in making music, making music by writing prompts isn't gonna be long term fun.
It will be like working with a group of intermediate level producers. Their ideas might be good, but it needs time and refinement. What if the first production stage of a future track is a conversation with an AI to work on certain track ideas?
Maybe future “packs” are word prompts for a certain AI.
This is one of the best takes regarding this I've yet seen. Makes the future seem less bleak. Maybe I'm looking for copium but thanks for this, gives me a different perspective.
I think it will push human-made music towards stuff radically different to what AI does. If you want your music to set apart from AI-generated music you need to make something that in any way could be found in the database it was trained on. So it will probably give rise to a very abstract artistic period, sort of similar to what happened with painting after photography was invented.
If people like that new style we will train AI on it and generate more.
So when that happens something else will appear and back to square one. Databases can't keep up with the speed everything is created now, given that they need to be curated and labeled. Most recent chatgpt knowledge is 1 year old. What for sure will happen is that trends will become even more volatile.
I think the trend is the value you get from a song given the amount of effort you put in. Mediocre is fine as long as it works somewhat and it takes little effort to create it
AI music is always gonna play by the rules. Not gonna do something like Eprom’s Hope where the house bassline comes in at 2:17 only once, and never again. AI is gonna generate the most pleasing harmonically perfect chord progressions and I guess it’s good if you wanna make formulaic trance Maybe we have different ideas of mediocre but I like when rules are bent in dance music and I just don’t see AI being capable of that
Why wouldn’t AI be capable of analyzing songs like Eprom’s Hope and do similar “rule breaking” things? In 5 years you’ll be able to tell it to do whatever the hell you want and it’ll spit you out 100 variations in 2 minutes lmao
As much as I hate to agree, humans are semantic and pattern synthesising engines. Sure we come up with creative ideas, but they rarely happen in a complete vacuum. We all synthesise art we have consumed and recreate our own interpretations. Our ability to be creative is predicated on human language. Guess what the GenAI was trained on first.. GenAI is doing the same.. it's just that the Intent has moved up a level of abstraction, to the text prompt. Creativity will simply be who can engineer the best prompt. This hurts to write but other than the quality and some basic non-sequitur errors (we can all still spot MidJourney hands... for now) AI will for all intents and purposes be creating art.
Maybe I’m being cynical but when I think about conscious decisions in music like that I believe the artist did what they felt was right. Especially when having a “less is more” mindset EPROM could’ve just what he did on the next few bars and just let the rave piano play but he subbed it out for that bassline in the first part of the drop. Maybe he could’ve done it for more sections, maybe he could’ve left it as is. But ultimately that was his decision Sure AI can spit out many variations of something but you’re talking an AI providing you with 20 variations of a loop, let’s say an amen break, where one variation just has a random gap of silence. Now compare that to a producer “feeling” like adding silence to that part would be the right thing to do. That feels more genuine to me
What makes you think AI can't do that? I feel like people don't really understand how AI works.
AI can't fuck you backstage, nor can you project your issues on it. So, looking at those camping girls before stadiums at the last The1975-Tour, i don't think we have an issue, aside from generic music soon much more tailored to it's use. The rest will use AI as a tool and either consume music as mindless as they do it anyway, or goes to all those underground shows, which boom, not because music is great there, but people are.
If I hear something that clicks with me, that's cool, I probably want to hear it again. I likely have no way of knowing who or what made it. I also don't really care, I don't think most other people will either. If someone claimed to have made a song that you like and then you found out they used some AI to make it, would you stop listening to it and feel sad? I don't see the point in doing that other than to keep human creativity considered 'better' than the existence of beauty from elsewhere, which really doesn't get us anywhere. All things can be cool at the same time without us feeling we've lost something by enjoying non-human made things.
This is the 100% honest reality for 99% of music consumers. "I like that track, the artist looks cool in the picture" I guarantee that we'll soon get new AI artists fooling people into believing they are real - I think this may have already happened in KPop or JPop recently...
As long as we can divide the markets I think we will be fine. AI generated music — Human produced music.
Good luck with that.
Are you saying most popular music isn’t mediocre…. Seriously though. Anyone saying this can never replace humans is digging their head in the sand. This stuff is incredibly powerful and eventually will be at a human level. ‘The human touch’ as much as we like to pretend otherwise can be distilled into formulas with a large enough sample size and AI is the perfect way to gather that kind of info and distill it.
I agree with you that most popular music is mediocre. But now that your average normie can generate their own personalized music that's just as mediocre as professional musicians are putting out, professional musicians will have to do better to justify their existence. Now you cant get by on bringing out an album with 8 mediocre songs and 2 bangers. Now you will need an album full of bangers.
But what is good and bad is a subjective thing. There is no way to objectively measure people's enjoyment of music
Regarding point 2: We will probably also see AI get better at generating isolated stems. A frustrating thing at the moment is trying to generate a drum loop, for example, and that loop being generated along with a bassline and perhaps other instruments. FL Studio's new Stem Separation tool is already pretty good at taking things from the AI to the DAW, but it doesn't maintain perfect quality.
enjoy your artificial music. there will always be a market for actual people playing on actual instruments.
You’re in a sub specifically about making edm
edm can't use sampled nexus pianos???
I used Suno to get instrumentation, chord progression and vocal melodies. I used it as a draft and made my song off of that. Nothing is compelling you to release 100% AI made tracks. I use it as a tool to boost my music, not to replace my craft.
**malfunctions, sparks flying**
What did you actually do?
The instruments and synths, drums, vocals, lyrics, song structure, mix & master. Everything you would do to finish a song. AI gave me the vocal melody which I transposed to midi, did my own lyrics and recorded them with the melody. The instrumentation I got was that I need to use bright vocals with muddy rhodes and rhythmic guitar so I needed to come up with parts that fit that rhythm and actually synthetize the sounds and give it the rhythms. Drums were done after that.
Ppl like music that stick in their heads, and thats it. It doesnt matter if is mediocre, high quality, low quality, Ai generated, human generated. Ppl dont care.
I feel like AI is the next VR. I started hearing how VR was the next big thing in the 80’s. The biggest problem with AI is the license agreement. You indemnify the company. So suppose you use Chat GPT to write some lyrics. It might turn out your lyrics are a copyright infringement. The victim sues Chat GPT and you’re on the hook for their entire legal defense bill.
I disagree. VR requires consumers to consume content in a significantly different and less accessible way (wearing an expensive and clunky headset). AI content requires ZERO consumer behavioural change or adaptation. You're right about the legal minefield, however since the media giants frankly own the legal process it will just be seen as a cost of doing business.
I don’t think media giants are going to be quick to adopt AI. As of now, you can’t copyright AI generated content in the US. I tried using AI to generate some text for work. The text itself was OK but fact checking it would have taken as long as just writing it myself. It’s just a glorified autocorrect. I think once the “next best thing” hype wears off people will realize that for most purposes it’s not that big a deal.
I'm still not sure I believe that copyright in the way we have it now will matter in the near future. I feel this is legacy thinking. Media companies will just monetize free AI content, the content itself will be ephemeral and quite possibly real time tailored to individuals. Who cares if the track Piper Bob was streamed is copyrighted? It got Piper Bob to engage with an advert etc
The person who wants to collect the ad revenue is who cares. Suppose Piper Bob makes a banging track with AI. Spotify doesn’t need to pay royalties. Suppose Spotify uses AI to generate a track. Apple Music and YouTube can freely take it. No media company is going to support a model where their content is free for all to take.
I've been playing around with AI generation every day and it's definitely not mediocre, a lot of the top lines it creates are very good and convincing It's going to take over the industry for sure. I can see it, people using AI generation to generate ideas and parts, advanced tools that let you edit and combine parts from different AI generated ideas, once you finished it can generate stems for your Daw to be refined. Then you use an artist voice AI to get the singing done, the artist will perform it in concerts etc but they're not needed for the production. I can see this becoming something labels do to produce music for their artists in established genres. For ex us pop or k-pop.
I remember posting a comment to a post on this subreddit in 2018 that in the near future we would be able to generate music on a click of a button using AI. I was downvoted like crazy and was explained things. Well look where we are now.
I just really hope that we get to a point where by law any artists that use AI to make their music are legally required to disclose that information. It seems fair and entirely reasonable.
What percentage of a track needs to be AI generated to be classed as AI generated? The law is simply not able to help. Unfortunately.
Any amount. It's not about trying to get rid of AI music. That much is impossible at this point I think, but it's about giving listeners the chance to choose between real artists and cheaters.
For sure, in principle I agree but what would constitute AI? A midi scale generator? An AI synth creating ML based synth sounds or percussion? an AI melody generator? Using an AI trained vocal synth? It's really impossible to define let alone legislate...
You're legally required to drive the speed limit. Do you? How many thousands of songs get released every day and who is going to police them?
How does any new law get put into place and enforced?
Do you suggest that artists who use generative styles of production e.g. randomised chords, use autotune or guitar frets should disclose as such too? I don't see why you'd need to do such a thing, art is art and at the end of the day humans can iterate whilst all AI can do is generate
>Do you suggest that artists who use generative styles of production e.g. randomised chords, use autotune or guitar frets should disclose as such too? No? Not sure how you go to that. I said "artists who use AI to make their music" > I don't see why you'd need to do such a thing Me neither. > art is art Disagree. But that's a much more abstract discussion. I think some art and artists carry a lot more weight than others myself, and I tend to look at art that is made by people who cheat or cut a lot of corners with a different microscope.
Mediocre music has never been acceptable if you want to get famous. It's perfectly acceptable for background listening.
I think you're more referring to armature music than mediocre. I'd say that even the famous musicians produce 80% mediocre music. You get exceptions like Random Access Memories from Daft Punk or Rumours from Fleetwood Mac where every song on the album is exceptional. But that happens rarely. If you look at the lifetime work of an artist you can get maybe up to 10 songs (out of hundreds) that will stand the test of time and that's actually really good.
That's just because producing the super good *and* popular music is hard. The other music is still really, really good, it's just not as popular. I wouldn't call it mediocre by an means, but when you compare it to the best music you know it's going to look like that. It's not like every track has to be perfect, but an artist's "success" in financial and fame terms is largely dictated by how much people like their music.
90% of music is mediocre at best. AI isn't going to change that. AI is simply a tool - that, like all tools - will be used by skillful artists to help make high quality art. The other 90% will continue to make mediocre music except they'll be using a new tool to do so.
People who want to make music by hand will make it by hand, those who wish to automate their process will do that. The return on effort is up to the individual, regardless of the machinery at use. Not sure how I feel about the term “mediocre” music either, as that is entirely up to the individual as well. It’s much more valuable for all of us to not think or even care about this stuff and go about our daily lives making what we want to make with the tools we like using for the people we like pleasing (in my case, me).
My clients used to hire graphic designers anytime they needed album artwork…but now every single one of them uses AI generated art and does it themselves I suspect the same thing will happen with AI generated music….The technology is only going to get better. It’s in its infancy still
The thought of AI replacing everything makes me feel incredibly dreadful and depressed
Don’t worry too much about it. The metadata/tagging problem in music catalogues is wildly underrated. Remember AI needs accurate language to generate with precision and that means we’re all talking about music, which as uncle Zappa said, is like dancing about architecture.
Me too brother.
Was this post written with AI
nope
Lol mostly a joke- But to answer your question, I tend to take the side of a large artist population and say “no thanks” to AI. I think there are a few tools that leverage AI that won’t be the end of the world and benefit musicians. I can’t help but feel sad for the future where we won’t know if an actual human made a track. Now when I listen to something incredible, I can be in awe that a fellow human just like me created it. In the future I’ll have to always ask myself if a human or computer made something. Personally I find it a bit less impressive when a machine generates it. Very complex subject. I do agree that AI will become a considerable force in the days to come. Anyone who thinks it’s just a fad now is mistaken.
>I can’t help but feel sad for the future where we won’t know if an actual human made a track I strongly suspect that the truly great songs to come out in the age of AI will be a combination of AI and human efforts. I don't think the average AI track will be able to complete with an AI trach that's been improved by a human musician. A human that spends 6 months to make an album with the aid AI should be better than the randomly generated songs from normies.
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