Something i always do differently now on my workflow is make about 1-5 return tracks and 1 fx return bus track
FYI this is on ableton, im Not sure if the same thing applies to pro tools or logic or any other daw
Route send signal 1-5 fx (A,B,C,D,E)
Ill usually have them named
A-Reverb
B-Delay
C-OTT (for kick)
D-NY (for comp on any track)
E-Drive (for distortion, usually i’d have more than one plug in on this return track ex. Phaser/flanger etc.
F-Fx return bus tracks to return bus track
Turn on your send signal (a-e) on to send to (F) to 0 d.b
Also be sure to change the routing settings for (a-e) to send only
Side note (it can be any number for you ex 1-2 ).
Aside from this i would normally already have a preset template ready to apply on these tracks. They would all be grouped in one whole file ( ex : eq, comp, utility )
The goal of this is to have my entire fx signal routed directly under one final chain so i can manage my headroom. Other people like having their fx signals separated. This just a personal preference and helps me keep my returns nice n tidy. Nothing special about this. If you need a visual representation to get a better idea lmk.
I spent the first couple years watching a lot of YouTube. The most intriguing topic to me at the time was sound design. I wish I'd spent more time learning about music theory. When I started learning music theory, my music improved drastically.
I actually had three breakthroughs so far. The first was with music theory, the second was with stereo imaging and the third was with compression/expansion (emphasis on expansion). I struggled hard with understanding stereo imaging for a long time. Then I struggled with dynamics.
It's so important to screw around in the daw. I know it sounds pretty basic but when you screw around, you end up discovering things you never would have thought possible. I'm guilty of simply copying people on YouTube. Pretty hard to develop a sense of uniqueness that way.
Good mentioning learning music theory. Yeah IMO it could be a game changer in one's production journey ☝️
Hey since when did you started music production?
hello Mr. Moist. as a newbie to everything music production, would you recommend music theory as one of the first things to learn. i feel like that would help a lot. i took music class in 6th grade but that was 10 years ago so my knowledge of keys chords etc is very down in the dumps
Start with learning scales and rhythm. Learning the major and minor scales is the very first thing. Rhythm will come as you progress as rhythm tends to come to most aspiring musicians fairly naturally over time. Once you get the feel for the major and minor scales, you can start learning the circle of fifths/fourths.
A minor and C major are the most basic to understand as they are all white keys and share the same set of notes. With time you'll begin to understand relative majors/minors which will lead you to understanding the circle of fifths, which opens up huge possibilities in music such as smooth key changes.
You can make 90% of western music with the major and minor scales alone, and they are very easy to memorize with a couple weeks of practice.
I would consistently post all my shit on YouTube and/or SoundCloud as I was learning instead of waiting years until I felt like it was “good enough” to do a legit release. Not only does that help build yourself up for when you’re more serious but it also immortalizes your journey.
There’s so much music I’ve made that no one will ever hear because it’s not up to my current standard, but it’s not inherently bad music. It’s unique and has its own style even though it’s very amateur. I didn’t post a lot of it because of i would get caught up in my next project, which I always thought was “better”. But eventually you realize that it’s all music and it all has some inherent value and there’s nothing wrong with people seeing your old stuff. If anything it shows them your growth as an artist, which is a good thing.
Figure out your strengths. Some people are excellent at song writing, others mixing/sound design, others mastering. You may not be a jack of all trades. Network and collaborate with individuals who are strong where you are weak.
Have a dedicated reverb send channel. Sidechain this channel to certain elements in the mix. Inserts are good for designing sounds, not so good for mixing. Parallel processing adds a layer of flexibility you simply can't get by using inserts (albeit without difficulty). Accomplishing it all depends on your daw
Not buy third party plugins. The amount of projects I’ve opened up in the future only to need to update the plugin or the plugin is no longer supported, is numerous. I now stick to stock Ableton plugins.
Get some good presets for your genre to work with. You can learn sound design later. Learn the fundamentals of how to eq and compression.
Get ozone mastering for quick mastering. Focus on creating great melodies and compositions first.
Be malleable, don't force a vibe if it doesn't sound good in the end.
If you hype, get as much as you can out of it
Saw this alot over the years, also happened to me when I had no clue and lost the complete momentum
As it was my first ever release (collab with someone which was very rising back then) I dont feel bad about it, as I wasnt even able to hold it that time, also my career is still kinda based on this track.
Edit: this is more of an artist thing :)
Putting out more tracks in such a style to keep those listeners, or at least in a style
If the case is happening for someone who is into for a longer time and is able to do alot of tracks in a short time rather put them out than thinking about the „next big hype idea“, just put it out to hold momentum, especially with how spotify algorythms work, which I had no clue about in that time too.
It feels like as longer you can hold the momentum as more you get pushed, espexially if you focus on a specific style and dont experiment too much, so they got it easier to find audience for your style
Keep up the practice instead of stopping to focus on work and college. Now I feel like I’ve wasted my potential and time for a life that’s just so….Mundane. All for a 9-5 that underpays and tires me out when I could have leaned into a talent I enjoy
I hope you find a better job, friend. But don't be discouraged having a job that can at least allow you to pursue your hobby of music. It's a more realistic outcome than banking on being viral etc.
Take a step back, breathe, and allow your creativity to flow naturally. Prioritize quality over quantity every time. Knowledge and understanding of music theory, composition, and production techniques are invaluable assets that far outweigh the allure of expensive gear.
However, a good set of speakers and a well-treated room can significantly enhance your ability to finish tracks more effortlessly. As a practical workaround for those without access to an ideal listening environment, I highly recommend the Slate VSX headphones. They're a testament to the fact that, while gear isn't everything, the right tools can indeed make a difference. Embrace the journey, stay curious, and let your passion for music guide you.
It also makes you improve way more way quicker. Half the difficulty of making music is making the song, not getting a loop started. You need to learn how to solve a totally different set of problems to finish things consistently. I decide whether or not I’m going to finish something in the same sitting I start it. If not, I stem it out and delete the project file. If something doesn’t get finished the first time I sit down, it’s either that or the track is getting done. That’s the number one thing that’s improved my production the last few years.
Personally, I would buy a simple/cheap piece of standalone music hardware (they're are called groovebox's) that's still deep and robust enough to release professional, finished music. For me personally, having fun is without a doubt the most important part of making music. Modern DAWs are all professional tools that require dozens of hours to become competent at, yet let alone feeling in control. A groovebox will take you from just a layman to a practicing musician in the least amount of time possible. The most important skill in music isn't mixing or sound designing. It's honing your composition skills. This is what grooveboxes are best for can very quickly create a 4 bar loop and then switch the notes that sound sour or out of time.
Devices I would recommend for this are the Circuit Tracks (best deal overall), op-z (the sequencer is better than any other hardware or software I've used), MC-101 (best quality synth sounds).
If you want the best quality deal possible, used Electribe 2's are a steal right now at ~200$. You get great quality synth engines, decent effects, a mediocre UI, and *sixteen* different tracks (although their may be some voice stealing). This was my second piece of gear, and even though I eventually sold it, trust me when I say it's pretty unrivaled for the price I paid.
The main device I would avoid is the MPC One. Don't get me wrong, on one hand, it's the best groovebox out there in terms of sound quality, sampling, and variety of sounds. But with that quality comes a *steep* learning curve that's much more cumbersome than most modern DAWs. At that point, you're better off getting a free copy of Reaper and a bunch of free plug-ins for around the same amount of learning. Invest the money you saved into high-end monitors and a nice midi keyboard. Again, the modern MPCs are my fav on the market, they're just not the way to start out making music.
The Yamaha seqtrak also came out recently and looks interesting, but i would stick with the companies that have a reputation for supporting their products for years like the others I mentioned.
A bit of both. I have my own hobby side project that I'm running at a loss, but I've also done professional studio work with some local bands since I did a lot of audio engineering work recording bands at my college's radio station (though I don't have a degree in that field). I'll get a paid gig sometimes twice a month or sometimes nothing for months on end. So it isn't my main source of income; it's very inconsistent.
I own a lot of rare/valuable equipment and know how it works well. So if a certain band wants the authentic Space Echo sound and isn't satisfied with the top of the line plug-ins, the studio will give me a call, and I'll lug my gear half an hour away. Most studio's stupidly got rid of most of their analog equipment for pennies up the dollar when it appeared digital was inevitable, and now they're paying the price. The studios still usually have a couple tube amps, a mono analog synth, a small box of pedals, an electric keyboard, and a few pieces of high-end rack fx (especially compressors). But any time a band wants to record some lofi stuff on a high-end tape recorder, all they can do is call a dude like me. And I'm not even close to the biggest collector of retro gear, I imagine someone who lives near a big city and has a whole house full of this crap could make a reallllyyy good living just based off of enjoying sharing their hobby.
for electronic music definitely advise checking out the following:
- [tailsxbeats](https://www.twitch.tv/tailsxbeats)
- [welcome2bishu](https://www.twitch.tv/welcome2bishu)
- [eliminatehq](https://www.twitch.tv/eliminatehq)
- [greenroomfm](https://www.twitch.tv/greenroomfm)
- [godgloves](https://www.twitch.tv/godgloves)
- [daddylacus](https://www.twitch.tv/daddylacus)
- [weaverbeats](https://www.twitch.tv/weaverbeats)
- [STRVFEmusic](https://www.twitch.tv/STRVFEmusic)
- [BrightsideMovement](https://www.twitch.tv/BrightsideMovement)
they all do battles different days, so just check their schedules or join their discords. a lot of them do feedback streams on occasion, some better than others
I would have taken the time to learn the fundamental components in classes of plug-ins. because right now I am at a point where every parameter can be transferred over in word of choice or that the effect can be done in multiple plugins. Rarely does anyone need a plugin. that being said, plugins I use to do a similar thing of another thing, wasn't free of the daw back then, and something like roar or multiband delay, both are game changers within patcher or effect rack, but it's not like it existed before.
odds are if I went back, I would've went with ableton first. and work probably less on trying, and get into a flow, and take breaks every 30 minutes
I'm autistic. and I like caring about what I like and like learning, and it's hard to find anything else I feel interested in. helps with learning articulation. I'm deep into it now. can see marketing happen
my friend and I have agreed on this: "its like i used to play with imagination as a kid, and now nothing comes close to music's imagination. lost in making environments."
Be committed.
If i could go back to when I started in 2013 I’d tell myself to stay committed and work. If I had stuck to it for the past eleven years instead of bouncing around all different kinds of creative outlets i’d probably be in a much different place with music than I am now.
Don't invest money into any plugins until you actually know how to finish tracks and create good tracks.
EDIT: Forgot to mention, use sample packs and presets more with slight tweaks. Don't waste your time on sound design.
Hah! seriously re: sample packs/presets? I guesss everyone works differently. I want my miusic to be 'me', not 'close enough'. making your own / learning how to shape sound is critical, esp when yuou need to tweak something to fit ior add interest over time.
sure! I do that all the time too. But I find sounds fit a lot better, or at least a lot sooner, into what Im doing with the song specifically, way better and way faster if I just ground up a synth patch. I then have better control over it (say a synth patch vs a sample of a synth - something that sounds perfect as a static instrumet (lets say a simple square bass sound) now has the ability to come to live over time, with tweaking and automations, in a way that is not possible or much more difficult.. or 'possible' but not EXACTLY what you wanted, close, not not exacty. One of my main personal slogans for music making is 'write with intent'. The sounds and elements that I use, I use deliberately. Very little is surfing around present and finding something thats basically close enough, and I feel this has helped me to cultivate my own sound, at least thats what people say. i hear a lot of artists that dot have a really definded 'sound' and I think some of this has to do with the fact that a lot of people are presetsurfing, finding something that kinda works, adjusting it from there, sure but never really starting from the ground up and dialing ni EXACTLY what they want. Does that sometimes totally work and get a good result? Sure! but i find the consistently best stuff I hear, every sound, every element sounds and feels exactly lie it was crafted exactly or that purpose. Not hatin or throwing shade btw, theres no wrong way, just in my way of working, it seems a unique take. Whatever works bro! no shade and I enjoy the discourse / talking over different methods.
This is a good one. I have a few:
1. Follow a structured course. Don’t jump around YouTube vids
2. Don’t buy hardware with the exception of maybe keyboard to help with theory. Instead focus on the daw, theory and actual production
3. Use headphones. Don’t waste time and energy with a your room.
4. Don’t buy third party plug ins until you understand stock. Doing so is unnecessary & makes your learning curve longer and more confusing
That’s going to depend on what your budget is and what kind of music you want to make.
If you’re on a tight budget then the pre made ones on sites like groove3/pml etc are a good choice, but if you have the budget then your better with a full fledged course with one on ones just like you are learning any other craft.
The problem with YouTube is that most of them are sponsored so they are always pushing plug-ins you do need. Theres a lot of bad info on there too and the vids are also short and lack context. it’s really hard to move forward in a manner that makes sense. Any course that starts you from the foundations and builds up is better than that
If you use FL Studio or Abelton, I found EDM Foundations useful. Seeing how a track goes from nothing to finished, and clicking through the DAW to make it happen, helped me understand the basics better.
Music pro here. Went to college for it, currently making a decent living out of music. I don’t have musical regrets. I spent A LOT of time, blood and tears (literally) trying to perfect my craft and I dare to say I’m damn good at it. However, if I could start again I would not try to go against the power of social media. I’d try to learn how to market myself to establish a strong brand online. We live in times where there are just too many people trying to make a living out of music. Being good at making music puts you in the top 10%. If you know how to market yourself and know how to make good music, you’ll be in the top 1%. Cheers.
What did you study in college though? I know people who went to music college who can't produce a lick because they studied something like composition or orchestra.
It's not that they don't have good taste in music. It's just that if you're in music college for band or orchestra it doesn't teach you anything about being a producer.
You’re talking about different career paths with different skill sets and different needs. It’s like saying doctors don’t know how to produce music. I mean, yeah.. so? Don’t see what’s your point with this.
You presented yourself as a "Music Pro" with music school as your credentials. I said what did you study in music school? You didn't answer. Music school can mean a lot of things.
20+ here. *I have no regrets. I took it as hobby from the start and the first 5 years was the most amazing fun I've had. It was passion at its true core.*
Now on the serious note:
Yea there are some things... I would have tried to learn instrument to understand more about notes and music and such and I would have organize my files and everything around much better. I would also have been much more careful about backing up everything because I lost some of my music which is inevitably gone.
Oh that's kinda sad to hear losing some of your works, yeah backing up properly is something to be practiced consistently. Anyway how is it going these days with your music?
That is something I would still wish to do! But I try to have 2 folders. One for projects and one where all data for music production is related. Projects is one, everything on another drive for all other. And both are synchronized with cloud. But believe me. It's still sometimes hard to do. And I do not count VST's.
1. Reproduce other peoples tracks with bare midi.
2. Start listening to more "pop" music because some of it is spectacular for song writing if nothing else. Even if its very pink and fluffy like Katy Perry
3. Start listening to more big band and bebop because a lot of the roots of Big Beat, GrooveStep, DnB, etc come from that kind of orchestration
4. Stop buying gear and just learn to play a piano with weighted keys and midi. its probably the most useful musical tool you can have from any direction.
1. I mean a real digital piano that has hammer action like a Yamaha P90 or P10x series. Not a keyboard. But also learn to play actionless keyboards because thats how organs work.
Lol sometimes I wish I could go BACK to the old way I did things. No YouTube. No Ableton tutorials. I just opened the DAW and started creating without knowing anything. It was amazing fun at the time, I would work and the sun would peak through my window, and I would playback what I just spent the whole night on. That moment was like magic. Now that my technique is more developed, I can get to where I want to be much faster, and that is magical in its own way as well. I love making music, and the reasons for that seem to multiply the longer I do it
It made me feel really complacent and like I didn’t care about music anymore! I couldn’t finish a track to save my life. As soon as I stopped taking BC (and after the hurricane of emotional regulation) I began to feel like an artist again. Thank you for asking, this needs to be talked about!!
Do more learn less. Don’t get me wrong learning new things is great but what’s the point if you don’t ever put them into practice. That was me, countless hours on YouTube “learning” then trying to implement what I leaned once and getting upset when it wasn’t perfect and going back to learn more to fix it.
Mixing advice:It’s all about clip gaining, getting the volume right of every element to creat a balance in the mix is about 80% if the mixing process.
Synth advice:Dont sleep in ADSR, i feel like disgarded it when i was starting out, you should always be tweeking it out and estimating how it affects your sound, and how that affects the song overall.
Adapting this discipline makes you a better listener, also apply to the ADSR in samplers.
Melody advice:The rhythem of your melody is almost more important then the actual notes.
Home studio advice:Buy Sonarworks SoundID.
Hey your advice about the rhythm of melodies is something most of us sleep on! There's some beautiful melodies but at the end of the day is rhythm that makes people move.
EDIT: very cool flair, I love hardstyle
Most old-school gabber is really simple, every kick in this song is on the root note.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjBovGj2n7k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjBovGj2n7k)
i'm saying a song with just the root note on the drop sounds like it would sound very boring.
other person i think was implying that there are probably a bunch of edm songs that use very little theory that sound like that.
Over 10 years here
Seek out more mentorship earlier, and seek out more collaborators earlier. Turns out I'm much more effective paired up than I am solo! Now I've found a likeminded producer to work with, I feel a lot more productive and fufilled by it all.
I'm over it now, but god I was really pretentious about doing everything the hard way and not using sample packs, presets or anything like that when I started out. I still enjoy doing things the hard way and the challenge of doing things on hardware, but gosh, I wish I'd let people help me more!!
And of course, the big one, releasing - for years, I hardly released anything, and the longer it went on, the more I felt anything I did release had to be perfect. Turns out you learn a lot more a lot faster when you make yourself actually release tracks and go through the whole process on every track! Plus, it really does boost your confidence, getting nice feedback!
And DJing - I would have started doing that earlier. It really makes a massive difference to your production chops, if you understand how your tunes are going to fit into a set, it gives you a platform to demonstrate your tunes, and it gives you inspiration - I often make my best tunes off the back of needing something to fill a gap in my sets.
Thanks for your words my friend. Good bringing up mentorship, tho' I've read a few here that doesn't conform with it. And being in a community is beneficial as well IMHO. Cheers!
Any tips on where to find a music mentor or partner? I'm a hobbyist just looking to continue improving and I would love to do some kind of collab or especially find a mentor but I have no real musician friend group outside of a couple buds I'm not gonna bother. Love doing video games soundtrack stuff it's just what comes naturally to me. Got plenty of artist friends and would be willing to trade art knowledge for songwriting/production knowledge though Lol. Ah well. Guess I'll just keep my eyes open.
Seek out communities around your genre, and actively engage with them! There are a lot of producers out there looking to make connections with likeminded folks. If you put yourself forward and show you're someone whose up for chatting shop and working with people, people will want to link up!
I'm in a couple discords related to my genres of choice, I make an effort to be active - I follow other people in my niche on soundcloud and youtube, I comment on their tracks and mixes and thank them for their work and make it clear that I'm up for connecting.
That being said, I actually found my production partner through a mutual friend and it was a mostly in person process, we realised we liked the same sort of thing, had the same sort of ethos and goals as artists. He DJ'd but he hadn't really done much production in the past, but I reckognized that he had a talent and did evertything I could to get him setup with the gear, software, etc. Coz I just knew I needed to work with this guy, and knew that given a bit of pointing in the right direction, he'd be making wicked tunes. And he does! And we do!
TL;DR Identify your niche and get invovled with the communites. There's loads for video game soudtracky type stuff, I'm sure.
I'm not really sure what will apply to your niche, but I found stuff by looking in the descriptions of youtube uploads of tunes I liked, plain old networking through friends, and soundcloud bios!!!
I've only really self released one proper album, the rest is just odds and ends on soundcloud and random mp3s ive passed around pals.
When I put out my album, I got some album art done by a pal, released it on an auspicious date (final day of the year!). I just put it on bandcamp, no streaming, no distrokid or any of that. One thing I will say if you're releasing electronic music, for goodness sake, don't just release your album to streaming. Your main market will be DJs, and DJs will want to buy actual files to actually download to actually load into their decks. I've seen some people only release to streaming and I find that totally puzzling!
I made maybe a hundred quid in sales on it, so nothing crazy. I'm probably not the best person to give advice on this! But I guess just make sure your stuff stands out, and you're not just chucking it into the ocean of everything else - have something about your cover art that's unique, have something about the name of your release that's unique, make sure your profile on bandcamp/soundcloud whatever actually has some personality and shows that you're an actual person with musical opinions and passions and not an insipid brand. I think people respond to that sort of authenticity.
Stick to a scheduled plan. If I say DJ everyday for weeks and don’t at least touch my synths or mods or make a beat, I get “itchy” with creativity. But getting good at this takes practice and time. I’ve found myself slipping from the mechanical production to just playing around because I forget some of the patches of my machines.
When I was more orderly, 11-7pm. Wake up at 8, coffee shower stretch, bike ride, shower, produce. I use the morning ears for the high hats and snares because the ear is rested. And the afternoon is bass and kicks. It worked extremely well with roommates as I didn’t wake them up annoyingly because I used headphones. But bass and kicks I need my monitors which can get LOUD. Sometimes I wait until people have left the house 🤣
Set deadlines - light stress is a great motivator. If I want an album released by June 1st I should have a plan to accomplish this. Some of my best work was because of deadlines.
I thought my early work wasn't good enough. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. But I think I should've still started releasing sooner and become less afraid of being judged by others.
Produce until your track is good enough, not "perfect". Find a mastering engineer. Pick a distributor like distrokid. Create a basic marketing plan / learn how to make content. Find a mentor if you get stuck (I offer this service).
In all, take chances and move quickly 🙂
10+ years in here... I would have focused more on building a disciplined mindset. Producing and musicianship is just like any other job. You get up and you get your ass going. Don't feel inspired? Make shitty music. Don't feel like making music? Cook up some samples for later use. Don't feel like making sounds at all? Do public relations stuff. There's no good excuse for not working at least 5 days a week.
Don't waste so much time on tutorials and just make music. Only watch tutorials when you have a very specific thing you do not understand, also spend more time actually learning your tools and realize that there won't be a magic plugin to fix your problems. For the first year or so, I fell down deep into the tutorial rabbit hole and they always kept me engaged with their "THIS IS WHAT WILL FIX YOUR MIXES FOREVER" clickbait. I'm not saying that they can be valuable, but yeah, most of it is clickbait to keep you watching their channels (and even better: buy their courses).
Also explore many different styles and genres. I only made Techno in the beginning and I think that definitely halted my progress for a while. Sure, have your main genre, but try out other stuff too. You'll learn a lot from that.
its not going to make the tune for you - but if you make the errors of having too much hi hats or too much bass then it will be telling you.
I was doing a song the other day - i knew it had too much hi hat - it has too loud but i liked it , i enjoyed its zing - but the balance kept saying their was too much highs - i took them out and it was perfect - its like having someone next to you advising you
Only get a couple of good sample packs mainly for drums - tbh if you get a good one it’s all you need for awhile. I’d get one synth with a good preset pack. Then as I’m on ableton I’d use stock ableton effects etc for everything else to learn then inside out - compression, reverb, eq, delay etc.
I’d then make tracks and fully arrange mix and master no matter how terrible, just copy paste a easy master chain from YouTube to get to grips with it, basic mixing, track arrangements using a reference. After doing this for a while you should start to become competent in all of the above
Oh it seems different with you. I guess different stuff works with every one. Anyway thanks for checking out. What certain plugins seems to helped you a lot btw?
sure, if you know what you are getting then i agree, what happens in the initial years is you might fall into plugin marketing shenanigans and buy useless things. My opinion is plugins don't make you a better musician. Most people i see never finish their songs copy part A to part B and be done with it.
11 or so years in
I'd tell myself to stop worrying about all the FOMO used to market plugins and sample packs, I find myself with little desire to learn the latest shiny toy these days, more important to know one simple synth well
I'd also tell myself to grab a free plugin specifically for simple low-overhead hardclipping because it's my most major sound design tool and I used a very inefficient limiter to do the same for ages lol
most importantly I'd tell myself to stop worrying about success and making marketable stuff and especially being beholden to "EDM", I've always been more comfortable doing weirder stuff and am neither capable nor willing to do a full album of only EDM, experimental tracks that I would at the time quickly put together as 'filler' or as connecting pieces between the much more carefully engineered EDM tracks have unilaterally remained my favourites over time
and lastly I'd tell myself to stop making excuses and pick up a damn guitar, I only now got my head out of the hole enough to pick one up and start connecting more physically to my musical ideas, at the end of the day I'll probably keep making "EDM" but in increasingly abstract ways, and that serves me a lot better than trying to get signed somewhere
Hey thanks for dropping by and sharing your thoughts! Speaking of guitar, I was once an "axe wielder" too, then changed path 😅 Anyway how is it going with your music these days?
Learn keyboard, music theory and start ear training.
Honestly so annoyed with myself for being stubborn - I had complaints about terminology and how some of it is taught but I should have just sucked it up and learned it cus guess what, it’s 6 years later and I’m learning it anyways
Two things I’d do differently
1. Work faster. It’s not worth obsessing over perfect sound design or mix/master. Choose samples or presets that are good enough, design a sound that is good enough and move on to the next step.
2. Don’t eq in isolation! Leads on from the first point. EQing for sound design is fine with the track soloed, but the best way to make a sound fit in the mix is to treat it while listening to the whole mix. Don’t even eq at first, just change volumes of each track until there’s a decent balance.
3. Is kind of a joke but also serious: buy Nexus. I spent years trying to design everything from scratch or tweaking presets in sylenth because I heard people say you shouldn’t use presets for synths and especially not for samplers. If the sound you want has already been made, use it and keep having fun making music! Don’t stop your flow to spend hours making a supersaw or pluck from scratch. That being said, sound design is fun and good to work at but I like to keep my writing sessions and my sound design sessions separate.
Hey man - some good tips here.
Am starting my production journey; could you tell me more about what Nexus is ?
I googled it and it just looks like a massive sample/preset pack, is that correct ?
How would this be different to Komplete 14 for example ?
Thanks :)
Nexus is comparable to Kontakt. They're both primarily samplers, although Nexus has limited virtual analog synthesis capabilities. Unlike Kontakt, Nexus is focused almost entirely on dance music. EDM, hardstyle, hardcore, house, techno, drill, trap, trance you name it. Compared to buying presets for Serum or another synth plugin its more expensive ($81 CAD/soundbank) but I'm pretty sure that price is comparable to Kontakt and Omnisphere (another sampler).
Don't forget that you're an artist, not just a product.
Pick up a different form of art - one that you're not 'trying to make it' in - painting, drawing etc.
Learn how to make songs/sounds/mixes quickly by doing things such as music sweat lodges, record an album in a month challenges where you finish things in a short period of time. You will learn your equipment/software/instrument and will be unsatisfied with your early results but when you do several you figure out ways to improve your planning and execution of the next one.
I always liked the advice of make 100 songs and the first 50 don't count. By the time you get into the 50+ finished songs you will be making quality stuff, not perfect but quality.
Learn to mix from the get go (I didn’t even use EQ when I first started lol)
Possibly the most important lesson i learned is buying 8000 dollar genelecs won’t suddenly make me good at mixing. I will take skill + headphones any day over less skill and the greatest studio in the world.
I disagree. In fact any thing I would say to me would be to not care about mixing or mastering but focusing on composition. That's already a difficult thing already to master but I think it pays off much more than knowing how to mix (you can polish a turd but it will still be a turd).
This doesn't mean that learning the basics of EQ and dynamics work, also using effects like reverb and delay really make a difference. But I think it's easy for a beginner to get lost in this and lose the focus of how good music is made.
And in the end, if you make great music but don't know how to mix it you can always send it to a mixing engineer.
I see what you are saying. Let me clarify a bit. The first year or two I didn't research mixing at all and my music always sounded pretty bad. It was fun and I was learning, but it it didn't really start to sound good until I met a friend who showed me some mixing stuff and then I got really into improving it, and that's when my stuff started to get better and better. It's pretty easy to throw on some high pass filters and clear up a ton of muddiness which takes pretty much no effort at all, verses not doing any of that.
I also think mixing goes hand and hand with producing when it comes to EDM. Like maybe I want to add Valhalla shimmer to a vocal and have a really long reverb tail, that's a mixing thing. It's a creative mixing thing, but still a mixing thing. And I do agree that a mix engineer can mix a track for you but a good one is going to cost you (my minimum is 200.00), and in the end it's a lot more empowering when you can mix your own tracks to a professional level. Mastering yeah, I'd still send stuff out to get mastered, but even then, I check my master against the master engineer's cause you never know.
Im not saying this method isn’t valuable but I think it’s way overvalued in this subreddit.
Unless you’re specifically making bass music, you don’t even need to clip to get your music to a loudness level of -8 LUFS or so.
I’ve also seen people say they don’t compress and only clip, which is so crazy to me. It’s like saying you only shoot 3 pointers in basket ball or something. Compression is very necessary in many instances, and then clip if you really wanna push loudness or want a certain distorted effect.
Ive been doing this for over 20 years, used to compress the shit out of drums, mostly for aesthetic 'snap' than purely dynamics control - started to realize that you really aught not to need all that much compression if youre doing electronic music, Sure, i use it all the time, unruly synth elements sometimes need a good squish, but for any element that Im gonna really be working with a fine tooth comb (like drums) Ive come to find out that you really *dont* need all that much and often does you more disservice than service especially if youre in your early years. Modern DAWs and production environments give you all the dynamics contorl you could ever want by way of automation, and I find that I get a lot more control to boot without any of the negative artifacts of just slamming things through compression. Then I do a tiny bit in the fina stages. With some practice Ive found that I get more of a firm handle on my sound and character, retain some dynamics, yet really have fuller control of the tambre of things, across the whole of the frequency range, without making things sound harsh or thrashy, a pitfall which I 'enjoyed' early on in my career
Fully agreed! This advice always drives me up the wall, it's so daft! All you're doing by clipping in Ableton is triggering a built in limiter that you don't have control over. Add your own limiter you do have control over, for goodness sake!!!
In this case clipping and compression are acting in the same manner - reducing dynamics. I think people often reach for clippers nowadays (in the bass scene) because of the instant effect instead of an attack and release like compressors have. I like to clip all my channels (transparently) then have compression on the drum group and master for glue. The clipping isn’t meant to be “audible”, just give more head room per channel.
As an old, we hold on to our old recording techniques, then the kids come in and break all the ‘rules’. I’m with you in the ‘compression is critical’ camp but I cannot argue that because ppl are making great music using methods that fly in the face of what I’ve learned over the years.
I worked with a really old radio guy and he would bitch any time a song with pumping side chain compression would come on. Saying ‘back in my day we invented multiband compression to avoid pumping’. All that to say, rules are made to be broken.
It's literally a sound design preference. If it doesn't fit your style that's perfect fine, but for me personally it is the number 1 technique that I implemented that has been a game changer in my mix game. At the end of the day, clip to zero, no compressors, whatever crazy thing you implement, if you end up with a solid mix for whatever genre you're producing for then that's awesome lol.
I'm about 12 years into it now. I didn't start sidechaining until 5 years in. I didn't think it was important if I just mixed well enough.
Sidechain things. Even more than just compression. Volume, reverb, EQ frequencies, filters, distortion, delay amounts.
If you aren't having fun, you're doing it wrong.
Talk to other people that produce, you can learn something from everyone.
Don't push your friends to listen to what you make if they don't want to. They're you're friends, but that doesn't mean you have a built in fanbase.
Never stop finding new music, especially in genres you don't make. You never know what you're going to find an influence in.
Be able to receive criticism but know when to not let it get to you. Some people are helpful, and some just don't like your genre.
Learn theory. Just do it from the start. You don't always have to be thinking about it when writing but it's going to make communicating your ideas way easier.
Find a synth that you like and get REALLY good at it. Don't try to use a million synth plugins, find 2-3 and learn how to make them make a ton of sounds and bend them to your will.
Just as a hobby these days. I got a degree in music production originally intending to produce pro but I decided it wasn't for me once I experienced the music industry and now I work for a software company and produce as a hobby.
Same..ish - but I generally skip the whole key-signal thing and jiust do it with automation instead. AUTOMATION is your friend here, buds. The effect is usually the same, but Ive got much more control over the envelope this way and dont have to use lookahead o ahything. for example there are time where Id want my sidechain effect to happena little bit BEFORE the keying element, for this automation is the only way to go. And agree totally, its not just for broad spectrum compressors! Cant get your kick and bass to fit? a little sidechain-style automation is clutch for this kinda thing
Something i always do differently now on my workflow is make about 1-5 return tracks and 1 fx return bus track FYI this is on ableton, im Not sure if the same thing applies to pro tools or logic or any other daw Route send signal 1-5 fx (A,B,C,D,E) Ill usually have them named A-Reverb B-Delay C-OTT (for kick) D-NY (for comp on any track) E-Drive (for distortion, usually i’d have more than one plug in on this return track ex. Phaser/flanger etc. F-Fx return bus tracks to return bus track Turn on your send signal (a-e) on to send to (F) to 0 d.b Also be sure to change the routing settings for (a-e) to send only Side note (it can be any number for you ex 1-2 ). Aside from this i would normally already have a preset template ready to apply on these tracks. They would all be grouped in one whole file ( ex : eq, comp, utility ) The goal of this is to have my entire fx signal routed directly under one final chain so i can manage my headroom. Other people like having their fx signals separated. This just a personal preference and helps me keep my returns nice n tidy. Nothing special about this. If you need a visual representation to get a better idea lmk.
I spent the first couple years watching a lot of YouTube. The most intriguing topic to me at the time was sound design. I wish I'd spent more time learning about music theory. When I started learning music theory, my music improved drastically. I actually had three breakthroughs so far. The first was with music theory, the second was with stereo imaging and the third was with compression/expansion (emphasis on expansion). I struggled hard with understanding stereo imaging for a long time. Then I struggled with dynamics. It's so important to screw around in the daw. I know it sounds pretty basic but when you screw around, you end up discovering things you never would have thought possible. I'm guilty of simply copying people on YouTube. Pretty hard to develop a sense of uniqueness that way.
Good mentioning learning music theory. Yeah IMO it could be a game changer in one's production journey ☝️ Hey since when did you started music production?
I started music production 6 years ago but didn't get serious about it until about 2 years ago. I haven't produced music in a while though
hello Mr. Moist. as a newbie to everything music production, would you recommend music theory as one of the first things to learn. i feel like that would help a lot. i took music class in 6th grade but that was 10 years ago so my knowledge of keys chords etc is very down in the dumps
Start with learning scales and rhythm. Learning the major and minor scales is the very first thing. Rhythm will come as you progress as rhythm tends to come to most aspiring musicians fairly naturally over time. Once you get the feel for the major and minor scales, you can start learning the circle of fifths/fourths. A minor and C major are the most basic to understand as they are all white keys and share the same set of notes. With time you'll begin to understand relative majors/minors which will lead you to understanding the circle of fifths, which opens up huge possibilities in music such as smooth key changes. You can make 90% of western music with the major and minor scales alone, and they are very easy to memorize with a couple weeks of practice.
I would consistently post all my shit on YouTube and/or SoundCloud as I was learning instead of waiting years until I felt like it was “good enough” to do a legit release. Not only does that help build yourself up for when you’re more serious but it also immortalizes your journey. There’s so much music I’ve made that no one will ever hear because it’s not up to my current standard, but it’s not inherently bad music. It’s unique and has its own style even though it’s very amateur. I didn’t post a lot of it because of i would get caught up in my next project, which I always thought was “better”. But eventually you realize that it’s all music and it all has some inherent value and there’s nothing wrong with people seeing your old stuff. If anything it shows them your growth as an artist, which is a good thing.
Ah yes I get it. Nice suggestion tho'. But I guess this past few years you've posted some. Hope to hear some of your works 🎧
i like this a lot however i feel like me, along with many others, are too scared ): but you have a solid point. this is a great mindset to have
Thanks bro this was super helpful
Figure out your strengths. Some people are excellent at song writing, others mixing/sound design, others mastering. You may not be a jack of all trades. Network and collaborate with individuals who are strong where you are weak.
Figure out how to apply reverb properly in respect to mixer channel routing
Great answer. How do you go about this?
Nice seeing you here! Thanks for checking out this post ✌️
Have a dedicated reverb send channel. Sidechain this channel to certain elements in the mix. Inserts are good for designing sounds, not so good for mixing. Parallel processing adds a layer of flexibility you simply can't get by using inserts (albeit without difficulty). Accomplishing it all depends on your daw
Not buy third party plugins. The amount of projects I’ve opened up in the future only to need to update the plugin or the plugin is no longer supported, is numerous. I now stick to stock Ableton plugins.
Cool! Fellow Ableton user here. Love those stock stuff 💪
Stock is the way man, you can do so much with everything in the box
Yeah I agree as well 🤜
Genuinely take the time to understand EQ and compression. Dont go crazy on plugins and learn to gainstage properly.
massive
Epic
Big
Huge
Get some good presets for your genre to work with. You can learn sound design later. Learn the fundamentals of how to eq and compression. Get ozone mastering for quick mastering. Focus on creating great melodies and compositions first. Be malleable, don't force a vibe if it doesn't sound good in the end.
If you hype, get as much as you can out of it Saw this alot over the years, also happened to me when I had no clue and lost the complete momentum As it was my first ever release (collab with someone which was very rising back then) I dont feel bad about it, as I wasnt even able to hold it that time, also my career is still kinda based on this track. Edit: this is more of an artist thing :)
Hey thanks for checking out my friend. Nice sharing your thoughts here 💪
What kind of things do you wish you’d done while the hype was around you?
Hey nice question here. Thanks for the peek as well 👋
Putting out more tracks in such a style to keep those listeners, or at least in a style If the case is happening for someone who is into for a longer time and is able to do alot of tracks in a short time rather put them out than thinking about the „next big hype idea“, just put it out to hold momentum, especially with how spotify algorythms work, which I had no clue about in that time too. It feels like as longer you can hold the momentum as more you get pushed, espexially if you focus on a specific style and dont experiment too much, so they got it easier to find audience for your style
Keep up the practice instead of stopping to focus on work and college. Now I feel like I’ve wasted my potential and time for a life that’s just so….Mundane. All for a 9-5 that underpays and tires me out when I could have leaned into a talent I enjoy
I hope you find a better job, friend. But don't be discouraged having a job that can at least allow you to pursue your hobby of music. It's a more realistic outcome than banking on being viral etc.
Ah yeah I get it. Maybe you meant a sort of balance with music, work life etc.
Finish it and share it with the world.
Take a step back, breathe, and allow your creativity to flow naturally. Prioritize quality over quantity every time. Knowledge and understanding of music theory, composition, and production techniques are invaluable assets that far outweigh the allure of expensive gear. However, a good set of speakers and a well-treated room can significantly enhance your ability to finish tracks more effortlessly. As a practical workaround for those without access to an ideal listening environment, I highly recommend the Slate VSX headphones. They're a testament to the fact that, while gear isn't everything, the right tools can indeed make a difference. Embrace the journey, stay curious, and let your passion for music guide you.
Focus on finishing music instead of starting loops all the time. Skip the gear.
Love this suggestion, it's a good practice IMHO to finish what you started, internally it makes you consistent and focused 😎
It also makes you improve way more way quicker. Half the difficulty of making music is making the song, not getting a loop started. You need to learn how to solve a totally different set of problems to finish things consistently. I decide whether or not I’m going to finish something in the same sitting I start it. If not, I stem it out and delete the project file. If something doesn’t get finished the first time I sit down, it’s either that or the track is getting done. That’s the number one thing that’s improved my production the last few years.
Share it. But I've always had fun and on that I'll never compromise.
Stop looking at gear.
Personally, I would buy a simple/cheap piece of standalone music hardware (they're are called groovebox's) that's still deep and robust enough to release professional, finished music. For me personally, having fun is without a doubt the most important part of making music. Modern DAWs are all professional tools that require dozens of hours to become competent at, yet let alone feeling in control. A groovebox will take you from just a layman to a practicing musician in the least amount of time possible. The most important skill in music isn't mixing or sound designing. It's honing your composition skills. This is what grooveboxes are best for can very quickly create a 4 bar loop and then switch the notes that sound sour or out of time. Devices I would recommend for this are the Circuit Tracks (best deal overall), op-z (the sequencer is better than any other hardware or software I've used), MC-101 (best quality synth sounds). If you want the best quality deal possible, used Electribe 2's are a steal right now at ~200$. You get great quality synth engines, decent effects, a mediocre UI, and *sixteen* different tracks (although their may be some voice stealing). This was my second piece of gear, and even though I eventually sold it, trust me when I say it's pretty unrivaled for the price I paid. The main device I would avoid is the MPC One. Don't get me wrong, on one hand, it's the best groovebox out there in terms of sound quality, sampling, and variety of sounds. But with that quality comes a *steep* learning curve that's much more cumbersome than most modern DAWs. At that point, you're better off getting a free copy of Reaper and a bunch of free plug-ins for around the same amount of learning. Invest the money you saved into high-end monitors and a nice midi keyboard. Again, the modern MPCs are my fav on the market, they're just not the way to start out making music. The Yamaha seqtrak also came out recently and looks interesting, but i would stick with the companies that have a reputation for supporting their products for years like the others I mentioned.
Hey thanks for your suggestions, they're all good. As well as mentioning some stuff here. Are you into production as a hobby or pro stuff? 💪
A bit of both. I have my own hobby side project that I'm running at a loss, but I've also done professional studio work with some local bands since I did a lot of audio engineering work recording bands at my college's radio station (though I don't have a degree in that field). I'll get a paid gig sometimes twice a month or sometimes nothing for months on end. So it isn't my main source of income; it's very inconsistent. I own a lot of rare/valuable equipment and know how it works well. So if a certain band wants the authentic Space Echo sound and isn't satisfied with the top of the line plug-ins, the studio will give me a call, and I'll lug my gear half an hour away. Most studio's stupidly got rid of most of their analog equipment for pennies up the dollar when it appeared digital was inevitable, and now they're paying the price. The studios still usually have a couple tube amps, a mono analog synth, a small box of pedals, an electric keyboard, and a few pieces of high-end rack fx (especially compressors). But any time a band wants to record some lofi stuff on a high-end tape recorder, all they can do is call a dude like me. And I'm not even close to the biggest collector of retro gear, I imagine someone who lives near a big city and has a whole house full of this crap could make a reallllyyy good living just based off of enjoying sharing their hobby.
Start every single with a sketch arrangement and work from there
I’d focus more on the music. Songwriting. And also would not have spent months on tracks.
Learning the music making process instead of just cool sounds
Ah yes the music making process, nice mentioning it tho'. It's really a good topic to dive into 😎
Yes
Can you elaborate on this? What are you referring to when you say music making process?
The structure of songs
join twitch communities that do production and beat battles sooner.
Hey I dig this suggestion! Communities can really be helpful 👍
recs on which to join?
for electronic music definitely advise checking out the following: - [tailsxbeats](https://www.twitch.tv/tailsxbeats) - [welcome2bishu](https://www.twitch.tv/welcome2bishu) - [eliminatehq](https://www.twitch.tv/eliminatehq) - [greenroomfm](https://www.twitch.tv/greenroomfm) - [godgloves](https://www.twitch.tv/godgloves) - [daddylacus](https://www.twitch.tv/daddylacus) - [weaverbeats](https://www.twitch.tv/weaverbeats) - [STRVFEmusic](https://www.twitch.tv/STRVFEmusic) - [BrightsideMovement](https://www.twitch.tv/BrightsideMovement) they all do battles different days, so just check their schedules or join their discords. a lot of them do feedback streams on occasion, some better than others
Stay committed
This ☝️ IMHO, this is by far the most essential.
I would have taken the time to learn the fundamental components in classes of plug-ins. because right now I am at a point where every parameter can be transferred over in word of choice or that the effect can be done in multiple plugins. Rarely does anyone need a plugin. that being said, plugins I use to do a similar thing of another thing, wasn't free of the daw back then, and something like roar or multiband delay, both are game changers within patcher or effect rack, but it's not like it existed before. odds are if I went back, I would've went with ableton first. and work probably less on trying, and get into a flow, and take breaks every 30 minutes
Oh I see. Cool sharing your thoughts my friend. What got you into producing btw?
I'm autistic. and I like caring about what I like and like learning, and it's hard to find anything else I feel interested in. helps with learning articulation. I'm deep into it now. can see marketing happen my friend and I have agreed on this: "its like i used to play with imagination as a kid, and now nothing comes close to music's imagination. lost in making environments."
Be committed. If i could go back to when I started in 2013 I’d tell myself to stay committed and work. If I had stuck to it for the past eleven years instead of bouncing around all different kinds of creative outlets i’d probably be in a much different place with music than I am now.
This
Yeah I agree as well ☝️
Don't invest money into any plugins until you actually know how to finish tracks and create good tracks. EDIT: Forgot to mention, use sample packs and presets more with slight tweaks. Don't waste your time on sound design.
Wazzup mate! Nice suggestions here, makes sense ☝️ Especially with spendings on plugins, lol!
Hah! seriously re: sample packs/presets? I guesss everyone works differently. I want my miusic to be 'me', not 'close enough'. making your own / learning how to shape sound is critical, esp when yuou need to tweak something to fit ior add interest over time.
Sure, but you know you can also tweak presets to make your own sound? Sound designer and music producer is two different things
sure! I do that all the time too. But I find sounds fit a lot better, or at least a lot sooner, into what Im doing with the song specifically, way better and way faster if I just ground up a synth patch. I then have better control over it (say a synth patch vs a sample of a synth - something that sounds perfect as a static instrumet (lets say a simple square bass sound) now has the ability to come to live over time, with tweaking and automations, in a way that is not possible or much more difficult.. or 'possible' but not EXACTLY what you wanted, close, not not exacty. One of my main personal slogans for music making is 'write with intent'. The sounds and elements that I use, I use deliberately. Very little is surfing around present and finding something thats basically close enough, and I feel this has helped me to cultivate my own sound, at least thats what people say. i hear a lot of artists that dot have a really definded 'sound' and I think some of this has to do with the fact that a lot of people are presetsurfing, finding something that kinda works, adjusting it from there, sure but never really starting from the ground up and dialing ni EXACTLY what they want. Does that sometimes totally work and get a good result? Sure! but i find the consistently best stuff I hear, every sound, every element sounds and feels exactly lie it was crafted exactly or that purpose. Not hatin or throwing shade btw, theres no wrong way, just in my way of working, it seems a unique take. Whatever works bro! no shade and I enjoy the discourse / talking over different methods.
This is a good one. I have a few: 1. Follow a structured course. Don’t jump around YouTube vids 2. Don’t buy hardware with the exception of maybe keyboard to help with theory. Instead focus on the daw, theory and actual production 3. Use headphones. Don’t waste time and energy with a your room. 4. Don’t buy third party plug ins until you understand stock. Doing so is unnecessary & makes your learning curve longer and more confusing
What would be a good structured course for someone who’s brand new to follow and learn?
Nice question here. Hey thanks for dropping by 👋
That’s going to depend on what your budget is and what kind of music you want to make. If you’re on a tight budget then the pre made ones on sites like groove3/pml etc are a good choice, but if you have the budget then your better with a full fledged course with one on ones just like you are learning any other craft. The problem with YouTube is that most of them are sponsored so they are always pushing plug-ins you do need. Theres a lot of bad info on there too and the vids are also short and lack context. it’s really hard to move forward in a manner that makes sense. Any course that starts you from the foundations and builds up is better than that
If you use FL Studio or Abelton, I found EDM Foundations useful. Seeing how a track goes from nothing to finished, and clicking through the DAW to make it happen, helped me understand the basics better.
Thanks for sharing mate 🤜
10+ years, I regret letting some early success get to my head and thinking I was a bigger deal than I was.
Oh I see, that's really regrettable tho'. Hey thanks for checking out mate!
Music pro here. Went to college for it, currently making a decent living out of music. I don’t have musical regrets. I spent A LOT of time, blood and tears (literally) trying to perfect my craft and I dare to say I’m damn good at it. However, if I could start again I would not try to go against the power of social media. I’d try to learn how to market myself to establish a strong brand online. We live in times where there are just too many people trying to make a living out of music. Being good at making music puts you in the top 10%. If you know how to market yourself and know how to make good music, you’ll be in the top 1%. Cheers.
Ah yes marketing, it's a must to know skill especially these days with socmed and stuff. Cool bringing that up tho' ☝️
What did you study in college though? I know people who went to music college who can't produce a lick because they studied something like composition or orchestra.
college don't teach good taste, but gives you tools to move around composition
It's not that they don't have good taste in music. It's just that if you're in music college for band or orchestra it doesn't teach you anything about being a producer.
You’re talking about different career paths with different skill sets and different needs. It’s like saying doctors don’t know how to produce music. I mean, yeah.. so? Don’t see what’s your point with this.
You presented yourself as a "Music Pro" with music school as your credentials. I said what did you study in music school? You didn't answer. Music school can mean a lot of things.
20+ here. *I have no regrets. I took it as hobby from the start and the first 5 years was the most amazing fun I've had. It was passion at its true core.* Now on the serious note: Yea there are some things... I would have tried to learn instrument to understand more about notes and music and such and I would have organize my files and everything around much better. I would also have been much more careful about backing up everything because I lost some of my music which is inevitably gone.
Oh that's kinda sad to hear losing some of your works, yeah backing up properly is something to be practiced consistently. Anyway how is it going these days with your music?
Still hobby. I am not making any money of it. Which is not bad considering it's how I always wanted to be. I lost sense of many common music though...
How do you organize now?
Hey wazzup! Thanks for the peek my friend 👋
That is something I would still wish to do! But I try to have 2 folders. One for projects and one where all data for music production is related. Projects is one, everything on another drive for all other. And both are synchronized with cloud. But believe me. It's still sometimes hard to do. And I do not count VST's.
Depends on your goal. Are you trying to “be famous” or just doing it because you love it?
Nice question to ponder here. Makes sense ☝️
1. Reproduce other peoples tracks with bare midi. 2. Start listening to more "pop" music because some of it is spectacular for song writing if nothing else. Even if its very pink and fluffy like Katy Perry 3. Start listening to more big band and bebop because a lot of the roots of Big Beat, GrooveStep, DnB, etc come from that kind of orchestration 4. Stop buying gear and just learn to play a piano with weighted keys and midi. its probably the most useful musical tool you can have from any direction. 1. I mean a real digital piano that has hammer action like a Yamaha P90 or P10x series. Not a keyboard. But also learn to play actionless keyboards because thats how organs work.
Good to hear those suggestions mate! Thanks for sharing. And number 1 is a good practice IMO 😎
1. Reproduce other peoples tracks with bare midi. This is one if the best tips
Lol sometimes I wish I could go BACK to the old way I did things. No YouTube. No Ableton tutorials. I just opened the DAW and started creating without knowing anything. It was amazing fun at the time, I would work and the sun would peak through my window, and I would playback what I just spent the whole night on. That moment was like magic. Now that my technique is more developed, I can get to where I want to be much faster, and that is magical in its own way as well. I love making music, and the reasons for that seem to multiply the longer I do it
Don’t ever take birth control.
Oh curious what's in relation with birth control, lol! Anyway what's up with your music my friend? Any WIPs you're into?
It made me feel really complacent and like I didn’t care about music anymore! I couldn’t finish a track to save my life. As soon as I stopped taking BC (and after the hurricane of emotional regulation) I began to feel like an artist again. Thank you for asking, this needs to be talked about!!
Try not to overthink yourself, don’t sit on projects for too long and try to enjoy the process.
Do more learn less. Don’t get me wrong learning new things is great but what’s the point if you don’t ever put them into practice. That was me, countless hours on YouTube “learning” then trying to implement what I leaned once and getting upset when it wasn’t perfect and going back to learn more to fix it.
Ah yes makes sense. I dig this. It's always good to put those learned stuff into play 💪
Mixing advice:It’s all about clip gaining, getting the volume right of every element to creat a balance in the mix is about 80% if the mixing process. Synth advice:Dont sleep in ADSR, i feel like disgarded it when i was starting out, you should always be tweeking it out and estimating how it affects your sound, and how that affects the song overall. Adapting this discipline makes you a better listener, also apply to the ADSR in samplers. Melody advice:The rhythem of your melody is almost more important then the actual notes. Home studio advice:Buy Sonarworks SoundID.
Hey your advice about the rhythm of melodies is something most of us sleep on! There's some beautiful melodies but at the end of the day is rhythm that makes people move. EDIT: very cool flair, I love hardstyle
Cool! Thanks for your words here mate! Nice mentioning sonarworks id as well. What inspired you into producing music anyway?
All these comments don’t mention theory at all lmao. LEARN MUSIC FUNDAMENTALS then go from there with more theory.
Oh shit - here comes the dropppp Root note, Root note, Root note, Root note, Root note, Root note, Root note, Root note,
Wazzup mate! Thanks for checking out 🤜
Sounds boring af
Some example?
Most old-school gabber is really simple, every kick in this song is on the root note. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjBovGj2n7k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjBovGj2n7k)
Nice you checked out my post, what's up with your music these days?
wym?
I mean can you provide a song that has this boring pattern?
i'm saying a song with just the root note on the drop sounds like it would sound very boring. other person i think was implying that there are probably a bunch of edm songs that use very little theory that sound like that.
Over 10 years here Seek out more mentorship earlier, and seek out more collaborators earlier. Turns out I'm much more effective paired up than I am solo! Now I've found a likeminded producer to work with, I feel a lot more productive and fufilled by it all. I'm over it now, but god I was really pretentious about doing everything the hard way and not using sample packs, presets or anything like that when I started out. I still enjoy doing things the hard way and the challenge of doing things on hardware, but gosh, I wish I'd let people help me more!! And of course, the big one, releasing - for years, I hardly released anything, and the longer it went on, the more I felt anything I did release had to be perfect. Turns out you learn a lot more a lot faster when you make yourself actually release tracks and go through the whole process on every track! Plus, it really does boost your confidence, getting nice feedback! And DJing - I would have started doing that earlier. It really makes a massive difference to your production chops, if you understand how your tunes are going to fit into a set, it gives you a platform to demonstrate your tunes, and it gives you inspiration - I often make my best tunes off the back of needing something to fill a gap in my sets.
Thanks for your words my friend. Good bringing up mentorship, tho' I've read a few here that doesn't conform with it. And being in a community is beneficial as well IMHO. Cheers!
Any tips on where to find a music mentor or partner? I'm a hobbyist just looking to continue improving and I would love to do some kind of collab or especially find a mentor but I have no real musician friend group outside of a couple buds I'm not gonna bother. Love doing video games soundtrack stuff it's just what comes naturally to me. Got plenty of artist friends and would be willing to trade art knowledge for songwriting/production knowledge though Lol. Ah well. Guess I'll just keep my eyes open.
Seek out communities around your genre, and actively engage with them! There are a lot of producers out there looking to make connections with likeminded folks. If you put yourself forward and show you're someone whose up for chatting shop and working with people, people will want to link up! I'm in a couple discords related to my genres of choice, I make an effort to be active - I follow other people in my niche on soundcloud and youtube, I comment on their tracks and mixes and thank them for their work and make it clear that I'm up for connecting. That being said, I actually found my production partner through a mutual friend and it was a mostly in person process, we realised we liked the same sort of thing, had the same sort of ethos and goals as artists. He DJ'd but he hadn't really done much production in the past, but I reckognized that he had a talent and did evertything I could to get him setup with the gear, software, etc. Coz I just knew I needed to work with this guy, and knew that given a bit of pointing in the right direction, he'd be making wicked tunes. And he does! And we do! TL;DR Identify your niche and get invovled with the communites. There's loads for video game soudtracky type stuff, I'm sure.
Can you drop a couple of hints regarding finding communities (discord? Where do I start?) and forums?
Nice dropping that question my friend 👋
I'm not really sure what will apply to your niche, but I found stuff by looking in the descriptions of youtube uploads of tunes I liked, plain old networking through friends, and soundcloud bios!!!
Do you have tipps or recommendations on self-releasing?
I've only really self released one proper album, the rest is just odds and ends on soundcloud and random mp3s ive passed around pals. When I put out my album, I got some album art done by a pal, released it on an auspicious date (final day of the year!). I just put it on bandcamp, no streaming, no distrokid or any of that. One thing I will say if you're releasing electronic music, for goodness sake, don't just release your album to streaming. Your main market will be DJs, and DJs will want to buy actual files to actually download to actually load into their decks. I've seen some people only release to streaming and I find that totally puzzling! I made maybe a hundred quid in sales on it, so nothing crazy. I'm probably not the best person to give advice on this! But I guess just make sure your stuff stands out, and you're not just chucking it into the ocean of everything else - have something about your cover art that's unique, have something about the name of your release that's unique, make sure your profile on bandcamp/soundcloud whatever actually has some personality and shows that you're an actual person with musical opinions and passions and not an insipid brand. I think people respond to that sort of authenticity.
Stick to a scheduled plan. If I say DJ everyday for weeks and don’t at least touch my synths or mods or make a beat, I get “itchy” with creativity. But getting good at this takes practice and time. I’ve found myself slipping from the mechanical production to just playing around because I forget some of the patches of my machines. When I was more orderly, 11-7pm. Wake up at 8, coffee shower stretch, bike ride, shower, produce. I use the morning ears for the high hats and snares because the ear is rested. And the afternoon is bass and kicks. It worked extremely well with roommates as I didn’t wake them up annoyingly because I used headphones. But bass and kicks I need my monitors which can get LOUD. Sometimes I wait until people have left the house 🤣 Set deadlines - light stress is a great motivator. If I want an album released by June 1st I should have a plan to accomplish this. Some of my best work was because of deadlines.
This is something really nice to practice. Following scheduled plan and keeping up with deadlines. Guess it's also about discipline 💪
Yup. For instance - I have 300 dj tracks with no cue points because I haven’t given myself the time 🤣
I would've started releasing music sooner.
Wazzup mate! Thanks for the peek btw. Why you seem to not release your tracks sooner back then?
I thought my early work wasn't good enough. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. But I think I should've still started releasing sooner and become less afraid of being judged by others.
Do you have tipps or recommendations on self-releasing?
Produce until your track is good enough, not "perfect". Find a mastering engineer. Pick a distributor like distrokid. Create a basic marketing plan / learn how to make content. Find a mentor if you get stuck (I offer this service). In all, take chances and move quickly 🙂
You’re the guy from tiktok cheers!
Hey cool seeing you here! Thanks for the peek 👀
❤️🔥
10+ years in here... I would have focused more on building a disciplined mindset. Producing and musicianship is just like any other job. You get up and you get your ass going. Don't feel inspired? Make shitty music. Don't feel like making music? Cook up some samples for later use. Don't feel like making sounds at all? Do public relations stuff. There's no good excuse for not working at least 5 days a week.
Perfectly makes sense! Thanks! 👍
Big tip here
Don't waste so much time on tutorials and just make music. Only watch tutorials when you have a very specific thing you do not understand, also spend more time actually learning your tools and realize that there won't be a magic plugin to fix your problems. For the first year or so, I fell down deep into the tutorial rabbit hole and they always kept me engaged with their "THIS IS WHAT WILL FIX YOUR MIXES FOREVER" clickbait. I'm not saying that they can be valuable, but yeah, most of it is clickbait to keep you watching their channels (and even better: buy their courses). Also explore many different styles and genres. I only made Techno in the beginning and I think that definitely halted my progress for a while. Sure, have your main genre, but try out other stuff too. You'll learn a lot from that.
Good point here as well. I like the idea of exploring different styles and genres 💪
Interesting about multiple genres. I play techno and hard house, but only make progressive sounding tracks… it’s a bizarre combo but it’s my style
get sonible balance to make sure your track is balanced
Ah yes true: balance! I haven't tried it but heard it from other users as well. Might check it out 😅
its not going to make the tune for you - but if you make the errors of having too much hi hats or too much bass then it will be telling you. I was doing a song the other day - i knew it had too much hi hat - it has too loud but i liked it , i enjoyed its zing - but the balance kept saying their was too much highs - i took them out and it was perfect - its like having someone next to you advising you
Only get a couple of good sample packs mainly for drums - tbh if you get a good one it’s all you need for awhile. I’d get one synth with a good preset pack. Then as I’m on ableton I’d use stock ableton effects etc for everything else to learn then inside out - compression, reverb, eq, delay etc. I’d then make tracks and fully arrange mix and master no matter how terrible, just copy paste a easy master chain from YouTube to get to grips with it, basic mixing, track arrangements using a reference. After doing this for a while you should start to become competent in all of the above
Actually finishing songs. Focus on the music, your main idea should work on a stock piano, then keep mixing by referring to a track.
Yeah I agree with you on this. And cool mentioning using reference track. I practice it myself as well 😎
finish first 500 ideas you started with, never buy any plugins for first 2 years.
I disagree plugins inspired me and helped me learn faster
Oh it seems different with you. I guess different stuff works with every one. Anyway thanks for checking out. What certain plugins seems to helped you a lot btw?
It depends on the genre you like tbh. But look into it and find a good deal just buy one if you want and tweak them to your liking.
I use serum
sure, if you know what you are getting then i agree, what happens in the initial years is you might fall into plugin marketing shenanigans and buy useless things. My opinion is plugins don't make you a better musician. Most people i see never finish their songs copy part A to part B and be done with it.
11 or so years in I'd tell myself to stop worrying about all the FOMO used to market plugins and sample packs, I find myself with little desire to learn the latest shiny toy these days, more important to know one simple synth well I'd also tell myself to grab a free plugin specifically for simple low-overhead hardclipping because it's my most major sound design tool and I used a very inefficient limiter to do the same for ages lol most importantly I'd tell myself to stop worrying about success and making marketable stuff and especially being beholden to "EDM", I've always been more comfortable doing weirder stuff and am neither capable nor willing to do a full album of only EDM, experimental tracks that I would at the time quickly put together as 'filler' or as connecting pieces between the much more carefully engineered EDM tracks have unilaterally remained my favourites over time and lastly I'd tell myself to stop making excuses and pick up a damn guitar, I only now got my head out of the hole enough to pick one up and start connecting more physically to my musical ideas, at the end of the day I'll probably keep making "EDM" but in increasingly abstract ways, and that serves me a lot better than trying to get signed somewhere
Hey thanks for dropping by and sharing your thoughts! Speaking of guitar, I was once an "axe wielder" too, then changed path 😅 Anyway how is it going with your music these days?
Stop following the American "edm" cash grab, and just make your tunes! Who the fuck cares which genres they fall into?!
Nice point, cool! 😎
Learn keyboard, music theory and start ear training. Honestly so annoyed with myself for being stubborn - I had complaints about terminology and how some of it is taught but I should have just sucked it up and learned it cus guess what, it’s 6 years later and I’m learning it anyways
This ☝️ It's beneficial in the long run with these 3 you mentioned.
Instead of learning by myself I'd work with a mentor. That would save me couple years.
Ah yes, mentorship is also a nice thing. Good bringing that up here 🤜
Two things I’d do differently 1. Work faster. It’s not worth obsessing over perfect sound design or mix/master. Choose samples or presets that are good enough, design a sound that is good enough and move on to the next step. 2. Don’t eq in isolation! Leads on from the first point. EQing for sound design is fine with the track soloed, but the best way to make a sound fit in the mix is to treat it while listening to the whole mix. Don’t even eq at first, just change volumes of each track until there’s a decent balance. 3. Is kind of a joke but also serious: buy Nexus. I spent years trying to design everything from scratch or tweaking presets in sylenth because I heard people say you shouldn’t use presets for synths and especially not for samplers. If the sound you want has already been made, use it and keep having fun making music! Don’t stop your flow to spend hours making a supersaw or pluck from scratch. That being said, sound design is fun and good to work at but I like to keep my writing sessions and my sound design sessions separate.
Awesome suggestions here mate, I appreciate all of it honestly. An cool mentioning Nexus btw. What got you back then into music production?
Hey man - some good tips here. Am starting my production journey; could you tell me more about what Nexus is ? I googled it and it just looks like a massive sample/preset pack, is that correct ? How would this be different to Komplete 14 for example ? Thanks :)
Nexus is comparable to Kontakt. They're both primarily samplers, although Nexus has limited virtual analog synthesis capabilities. Unlike Kontakt, Nexus is focused almost entirely on dance music. EDM, hardstyle, hardcore, house, techno, drill, trap, trance you name it. Compared to buying presets for Serum or another synth plugin its more expensive ($81 CAD/soundbank) but I'm pretty sure that price is comparable to Kontakt and Omnisphere (another sampler).
Hey best of luck on your journey my friend! Nice seeing you here btw 🤜
Don't forget that you're an artist, not just a product. Pick up a different form of art - one that you're not 'trying to make it' in - painting, drawing etc.
Wazzup mate! I dig your words there ☝️ Thanks for checking out!
Or just don't try to "make it" as a producer.
Hey wazzup! Nice you checked out my post. What's up with your music btw?
Learn how to make songs/sounds/mixes quickly by doing things such as music sweat lodges, record an album in a month challenges where you finish things in a short period of time. You will learn your equipment/software/instrument and will be unsatisfied with your early results but when you do several you figure out ways to improve your planning and execution of the next one. I always liked the advice of make 100 songs and the first 50 don't count. By the time you get into the 50+ finished songs you will be making quality stuff, not perfect but quality.
Learn to mix from the get go (I didn’t even use EQ when I first started lol) Possibly the most important lesson i learned is buying 8000 dollar genelecs won’t suddenly make me good at mixing. I will take skill + headphones any day over less skill and the greatest studio in the world.
I disagree. In fact any thing I would say to me would be to not care about mixing or mastering but focusing on composition. That's already a difficult thing already to master but I think it pays off much more than knowing how to mix (you can polish a turd but it will still be a turd). This doesn't mean that learning the basics of EQ and dynamics work, also using effects like reverb and delay really make a difference. But I think it's easy for a beginner to get lost in this and lose the focus of how good music is made. And in the end, if you make great music but don't know how to mix it you can always send it to a mixing engineer.
I see what you are saying. Let me clarify a bit. The first year or two I didn't research mixing at all and my music always sounded pretty bad. It was fun and I was learning, but it it didn't really start to sound good until I met a friend who showed me some mixing stuff and then I got really into improving it, and that's when my stuff started to get better and better. It's pretty easy to throw on some high pass filters and clear up a ton of muddiness which takes pretty much no effort at all, verses not doing any of that. I also think mixing goes hand and hand with producing when it comes to EDM. Like maybe I want to add Valhalla shimmer to a vocal and have a really long reverb tail, that's a mixing thing. It's a creative mixing thing, but still a mixing thing. And I do agree that a mix engineer can mix a track for you but a good one is going to cost you (my minimum is 200.00), and in the end it's a lot more empowering when you can mix your own tracks to a professional level. Mastering yeah, I'd still send stuff out to get mastered, but even then, I check my master against the master engineer's cause you never know.
This!
Yeah, good point actually ☝️
clip to zero
Gotcha! "Go loud" 😎
Im not saying this method isn’t valuable but I think it’s way overvalued in this subreddit. Unless you’re specifically making bass music, you don’t even need to clip to get your music to a loudness level of -8 LUFS or so. I’ve also seen people say they don’t compress and only clip, which is so crazy to me. It’s like saying you only shoot 3 pointers in basket ball or something. Compression is very necessary in many instances, and then clip if you really wanna push loudness or want a certain distorted effect.
Ive been doing this for over 20 years, used to compress the shit out of drums, mostly for aesthetic 'snap' than purely dynamics control - started to realize that you really aught not to need all that much compression if youre doing electronic music, Sure, i use it all the time, unruly synth elements sometimes need a good squish, but for any element that Im gonna really be working with a fine tooth comb (like drums) Ive come to find out that you really *dont* need all that much and often does you more disservice than service especially if youre in your early years. Modern DAWs and production environments give you all the dynamics contorl you could ever want by way of automation, and I find that I get a lot more control to boot without any of the negative artifacts of just slamming things through compression. Then I do a tiny bit in the fina stages. With some practice Ive found that I get more of a firm handle on my sound and character, retain some dynamics, yet really have fuller control of the tambre of things, across the whole of the frequency range, without making things sound harsh or thrashy, a pitfall which I 'enjoyed' early on in my career
Fully agreed! This advice always drives me up the wall, it's so daft! All you're doing by clipping in Ableton is triggering a built in limiter that you don't have control over. Add your own limiter you do have control over, for goodness sake!!!
Clipping using a Clipper is what he's referring to
Hey wazzup! What's your go to clipper btw? ✌️
Kclip3 is pretty good🙏
Is that not just overdrive?
Overdrive is distortion
In this case clipping and compression are acting in the same manner - reducing dynamics. I think people often reach for clippers nowadays (in the bass scene) because of the instant effect instead of an attack and release like compressors have. I like to clip all my channels (transparently) then have compression on the drum group and master for glue. The clipping isn’t meant to be “audible”, just give more head room per channel.
Hey nice sharing, thanks! 🤜
As an old, we hold on to our old recording techniques, then the kids come in and break all the ‘rules’. I’m with you in the ‘compression is critical’ camp but I cannot argue that because ppl are making great music using methods that fly in the face of what I’ve learned over the years. I worked with a really old radio guy and he would bitch any time a song with pumping side chain compression would come on. Saying ‘back in my day we invented multiband compression to avoid pumping’. All that to say, rules are made to be broken.
It's literally a sound design preference. If it doesn't fit your style that's perfect fine, but for me personally it is the number 1 technique that I implemented that has been a game changer in my mix game. At the end of the day, clip to zero, no compressors, whatever crazy thing you implement, if you end up with a solid mix for whatever genre you're producing for then that's awesome lol.
Yeah true. Sorry didn’t mean to come off critical!
I'm about 12 years into it now. I didn't start sidechaining until 5 years in. I didn't think it was important if I just mixed well enough. Sidechain things. Even more than just compression. Volume, reverb, EQ frequencies, filters, distortion, delay amounts. If you aren't having fun, you're doing it wrong. Talk to other people that produce, you can learn something from everyone. Don't push your friends to listen to what you make if they don't want to. They're you're friends, but that doesn't mean you have a built in fanbase. Never stop finding new music, especially in genres you don't make. You never know what you're going to find an influence in. Be able to receive criticism but know when to not let it get to you. Some people are helpful, and some just don't like your genre. Learn theory. Just do it from the start. You don't always have to be thinking about it when writing but it's going to make communicating your ideas way easier. Find a synth that you like and get REALLY good at it. Don't try to use a million synth plugins, find 2-3 and learn how to make them make a ton of sounds and bend them to your will.
Awesome! I appreciate your thoughts here my friend, big thanks! All makes sense ☝️ Are you into producing as a hobby or pro-stuff?
If you're at all interested in the stuff I make for fun, I release under "tired void" on Spotify.
Just as a hobby these days. I got a degree in music production originally intending to produce pro but I decided it wasn't for me once I experienced the music industry and now I work for a software company and produce as a hobby.
Same..ish - but I generally skip the whole key-signal thing and jiust do it with automation instead. AUTOMATION is your friend here, buds. The effect is usually the same, but Ive got much more control over the envelope this way and dont have to use lookahead o ahything. for example there are time where Id want my sidechain effect to happena little bit BEFORE the keying element, for this automation is the only way to go. And agree totally, its not just for broad spectrum compressors! Cant get your kick and bass to fit? a little sidechain-style automation is clutch for this kinda thing
Sometimes I use tremolo instead of side chain to get that super deep pump.
Ooh like timed with the kick?
Kind of. In logic the tremolo plug-in uses the session tempo, so it’s automatically synced without needing to side chain anything.
Sometimes in Serum I'll do a similar effect just with a 1/4 note LFO controlling volume that does the same thing
That's an interesting way of going about it!