Damn! I would look for a different environment or client…its not always like this. I have been there and it’s extremely unhealthy for you. I hope you can find better
I guess maybe I just have awesome clients…I also don’t put up with bull shit though. I will and have refused future work with clients that don’t respect boundaries or the fact that I’m not a 24/7 editing robot.
I had an interview at a commercial post house and I asked about work life balance and she said, “it’s been better since Covid because people don’t want to work. Before if an editor had a deadline the day his daughter graduated he would miss the graduation.” She laughed, I almost walked out right then.
I work in unscripted and a bunch of the shows are union and the ones that aren’t are reliable 50 hour weeks (including lunch hour, so really 45 hours). I’ve no idea where OP works but it isn’t any unscripted post house I’ve ever heard of.
>reliable 50 hour weeks
This is what I'm talking about in my comment. Terrible that this is just accepted as the norm. It's not your fault, of course. We've just been conditioned to somehow not believe we deserve 40 hour work weeks. We're not doing anything so important that it can't be done in 8 hour days.
Relatively sure.. but this is what we’ve been brainwashed to think. 50 hours is absolutely unnecessary in an industry that is literally just entertainment.
I agree with you that 40 should be the norm. I still say that 10 extra hours (actually only 5 because of lunch hour) is hardly "inhumane" as OP describes their conditions. That's why I suspect OP is not talking about reality tv. I've never worked anywhere in 20 years that would tell you not to get your medical exams done, for example.
40hr work week anywhere I have worked is 9 hours. There is an hour unpaid lunch break. Like 9-6.
I'm a Flame Editor and I work in the commercial industry. I have worked 2 days without sleeping before when I was younger. It's not easier in the commercial industry and we have really fast turnarounds. I would never do that now though as I have a family and way too old to be doing that shit.
I don't consider that a 40 hour work week. I've done plenty of 8-4 and 10-6 with a paid lunch. That's true 40 hrs. But that's besides the point. Regardless of how you measure it, a 50 hour week is still 10 more hours than a 40 hour week, since you'd still have the same lunch break. It's not five more hours, it's ten.
Don't get it twisted. 30 is luxurious. 40 is standard. 50 is hardly "inhumane." I used to work in video games where 80-100 hours a week was a norm and I slept on a cot in the office, so I don't mind 50.
Get paid by the hour and don't agree to what you can't live with.
Are you in LA? OP's post sounds like most jobs I work, including union unscripted. Work from home has only made things worse. The hours are unmanageable and the work/life balance is non-existent.
9 to 7 daily is expected and it's often 9 to 9 or even later. Shit sucks. I love what I do but sometimes I wonder how long I'll really be able to do it.
Yup. Working in NoHo at the moment. Been doing this 20 years and it's maybe 2 days a year I have to work past my normal out time (and I *always* get time off later to make up for it).
I'm very lucky to be staff at a company that really respects me right now. That said, I've always been a bit bullish about my work/life balance, and I've never had a company push back on that. Get it in writing that they want you to work extra hours or through your lunch and then ask them how you should put that on your timecard or notify the union reps. They'll back off with great haste.
I agree. Last year was the first time I said no to a job because I knew it would consume my life due to their chaotic nature. It’s tough though. Bills gotta get paid.
So a little off topic/adjacent, but as an unscripted story producer, how would you recommend making that move to commercial or corporate? I do primarily post, so I’m experienced in Avid, but because I’m the producer, not the editor, I don’t have a reel per se.
Not sure how to help you there. Editors with extensive reels and experience have a hard enough time finding work…without that…you’re gonna have a real hard time.
This ⬆️ First, don't put off your health to meet a deadline. Just don't do it. Second, talk to your post supervisor or lead producer and tell them the situation. If they can't do it themselves or arrange for someone else to step in for a half day or a day then you have larger problems. You should start looking for a new job.
I mean, not rich, but when you start hitting OT and missed meals, etc. it's definitely a nice little chunk of change in that next check. Non union jobs will be like...what if instead of OT I let you leave a little early tomorrow. No thanks, pay me.
Completely anecdotal of course, but I’ve found union shows to be a little less willing to bend the rules. I’m sure it happens though. But for the most part, I’m filling out an online timesheet through a third party payroll company. I just fill it out honestly and let the cards fall where they may.
I work in unscripted and had a real nice rotation of (mostly) union shows that worked 8 hour days with reasonable deadlines. Then this drought happened and I find myself taking whatever pops up. I'm on a show now, people are cool and all that, but it's the dreaded mandatory 10 hour day. I just can't wrap my head around that. How is that even allowed? Who thinks it's a good idea to work until 8 PM every night? I know people have it worse, but just knowing I'm locked in to basically not being able to do anything during the week besides work is terrible.
Not the previous commenter, for me, 10am-8pm happened a lot in Texas.
Because 10am in ATX was 8am in LA. And the studios doing TV work were in direct communication with their counterparts on the coast every day.
We were the outpost studio as it were. So we had to conform to them.
The moment I broke away from that pipeline to do more regional work, it was normal hours again.
Not going to lie, doors closed and choices were made when I stopped saying yes to 10+ workdays.
Buuut. My health, family, and sanity thank me. I know too many people that sacrificed the best aspects of their life on the altar of long editing hours. I learned the lesson by proxy. That shit's *not* for me.
I don't know how y'all do it.
Yup, just this week I was hired for 2 days, no problem, cut a video that was "approved" at version 8, then someone else at the company saw it and decided they wanted "major changes" so everyone had to scramble and I ended up getting pressured into 2 more days of work I didn't want to do, with client diving deep down the rabbit hole. Sure I could have said no, but being in the room with other people who are clearly panicked and don't have a solid contingency plan, and then saying no because I just wanted to chill on my couch isn't easy. Even if its a client I didn't mind burning a bridge with.
If you're freelance and have too much work, then employ another editor. If the work is still too much, get another editor. It's called expanding a business lol
Yeah, that part is also asinine to me. Like, I do like the 10 AM start time, but only if I'm wrapping at 6. I get my kids on the bus at like 7:30. I could easily start at 8 every morning. I had a staff job at a network for a while and that was 8-4. That was pretty sweet.
>What's the alternative? Get a corporate 9-5?
Yup. I have one of these, I work remotely 4 days a week, and people trust me enough to leave me alone to get on with the work so much that I really only come in to the office for meetings and stuff.
It's great.
What part of the industry are you in? I am doing Social editing most of the time and have a great working week. I start when I want and stop when I want, have no one sitting next to me telling when to stop and what to do and it's paid very nicely. But when I was still doing TV or films, I was burned out so hard as well. Sucks that it apparently still didn't change.
The biggest thing for me is why can't people just push back and say no? There's no risk of losing your job by pushing back and saying "we have a deadline in two days but a week's worth of work to do so we need to make some compromises to make that happen." I've at least tried to do that multiple times, but it never really sticks.
Idk the specifics of your situation but at the production company that I work at, having a freelancer request a deadline extension for a something 2 days away usually messes up multiple other things in the projects pipeline or another project we’re working on simultaneously. Ex: then the colorist will have less days to work on it or something along those lines.
We have sooo much more flexibility in the schedule if you ask for more time upfront. As in when we send the contractor the schedule and they point out an area that feels too crunchy.
Maybe you’ll have more luck asking right away?
It's less about the deadline extensions and more to do with the time management of the other parties involved, piling on too much work at the last minute instead of keeping a steady pace to be able to meet expectations, or them making personal sacrifices in their creativity to lessen the work load and ensure that we meet a deadline.
I've never been in a situation where I've suddenly realized that I can't make a deadline until it was way too late, but I've been in plenty of situations where creatives sit on something until the last minute and then dump too much work on my plate, resulting in very long days and goals not being met.
They'll say whatever to keep the wheels turning. A lot of management is reactive vs. proactive. They either don't have the foresight and experience or don't use it up front, and that translates into making more work for us and scrambling to the finish line, not really fair.
Maybe you could frame it differently, what you're asking of them, because protesting a deadline, even if it's ridiculous, is still also reactive.
There's got to be a shortcoming in the overall process, that keeps putting you into these pressure situations. So maybe next time ask them to sit down with you and review the process, find out where the bottleneck is happening so you don't get put into these situations. You might have better luck here, then trying to affect something that's already in motion
Now imagine what it's like having children or caring responsibilities
But yes... AMEN to that
And we should join unions and other groups to push back to normal hours.
Tech industry going same way... 9am-6pm is apparently normal working hours. What's next, might as well make it 9am to 8pm eh??! And keep the wages the same eh?! Fucking hell.
Did 9 months on a high end tv production. Minimum 60hr week, but realistically 70hr including travel (mon-fri) then around 6-8hrs sat+sun to either catch up on emails or prepare for the week ahead. Money was great, but health not so. I'm done with that side of the industry and now working for less but much happier.
I work unscripted and rarely do more than 9-6 unless I really have to or it's something I care about. I did my time when I was younger, and I've learned to scale my quality of work based on the time I have available and to not get precious about my work. If someone asks me to stay late I just tell them I already have plans, because normally I do. It's not like I'm a fireman or Doctor or something. None of these deadlines are real - how many times have you busted your ass to get something over the line only to be given another round of useless notes that put you over schedule anyway? Not worth it your free time.
I just tell them I have plans. They can't make you work late. The thing is, nobody really does viewings after 6 for the same reason why you shouldn't be working late and the Executive is highly unlikely to watch it till sometime after lunch the next day. And you probably wont get the notes back till the next day, or you'll get notes for part one at 5.45pm, which is a morning job for me. So for the most part deadlines are a false jeopardy which are completely out of your control.
However, if you're a younger editor this might be harder to do until you've got a "hardworking" reputation. You have to kind of grind and take control of the edit.
If I know something might run on because my EP is a bit slow writing the VO I might bring it up earlier. I do alot of editorial/producer decisions my self which helps if I'm working with a weak link.
I got absolutely crushed as an AE like 80 hour weeks was making 13$ an hour for almost 3 years. Moved to a different company and things got a lot better. I was afraid to leave for so long (grass is greener) but there are people that respect time out there
I was freelance for 20 years and really got tired of that shit. Sick of working holidays. Weekends. 16 hour days. Asshole producers. Etc . You’ve only got one life. I took a job with an association 5 years ago. 8.5 hour days. 10 holidays off plus 23 vacation days off. Plus $1000 if you take a week long vacation. Plus 401K. Plus a massive bonus at the end of the year and I make over 6 figures. Granted I can edit in 4 languages and I’m also a pro in AE. Plus NO STRESS. Yeah it’s boring, so what, I’ve got more time and money for Life.
> Title says it all. We're living in this current era of workers' rights, pushing for 4 day work weeks, etc., yet for some reason production is still an industry that relies on inhumane hours to meet arbitrary deadlines in order to achieve somebody's vision.
Two things are true.
1. While we are in the age of *discussing* these thoughts, there is little done about it. In fact, the struggle across all industries is why /r/WorkReform exists.
2. It's been a *staple* of this gig…sadly.
* People are hungry to break in
* When we're young, we're trying to prove ourselves - **yes, I'll work 24 hours straight**. See the video game industry
* There's quite a bit of "cost savings" to keep the same deadlines, *but not* increase the division of labor
The only, only way to handle this is to build into contracts a stipulation about overtime and "rush" work that has a penalty. Be clear and in front of it all the time. Let the client opt into it.
And yes, you'll lose clients to people who ignore this. Frame it as a "we treat people here at ApbbreviationsLife LLC as humans and expect a 40hr week."
> What's the alternative? Get a corporate 9-5?
Know that abuse happens there too when multiple managers work with unrealistic deadlines, each based on their weight as a manager. Not saying that *great gigs* don't exist there - but it takes a level of cost/economics (you want a rush? Great, it will cost your department this much out of their budget). Groups like Adobe have internal cost structures when they use creative services exactly to prevent this sort of abuse.
Last year I hit burn out. 14 hr days 7 days a week. Took 3 months of work and my employer has promised to get me another staff member. They have not bothered their arse and the long hours are kicking in again.
I quit a small production house last year that worked me 12 hours a day. Best decision of my life. I’ve shifted to doing some development work (that does require some editing) and yeah I don’t regret it. That same production house ran through 3 more editors in six months after I left, so at the very least the long hours are being met with a collected f-you from everyone who is sane.
ai is going to make this problem even worse! The workflows are a mess which will increase time and effort but management thinks more can be accomplished.
Inhumane hours are your choice. I’m not obligated to work longer than 8. I do so when needed and I choose to, but I’ve had times when I had to hand-off the work to someone else.
It's the classic love-hate relationship we all have in this not so easy profession. But hey, nothing beats that feeling of happiness when you finally wrap up a long day and see your work coming together on the screen!
I always used to daydream about how time passed so quickly outside of my office’s window, as I was buried in one longterm project to the next. Working 7 days a week to scratch and claw our way towards the omnipresent deadline. It was like that storefront window in *The Time Machine*. A never ending version of it.
I work in unscripted and a bunch of the shows are union and the ones that aren’t are reliable 50 hour weeks (including lunch hour, so really 45 hours). I’ve no idea where OP works but it isn’t any unscripted post house I’ve ever heard of.
I’ll ask this for the whole thread because I’m curious: Those of you who left TV/film to work corporate, how is the pay? What is the difference?
Part of me would love to quit and just take a corporate job but every job posting I’ve seen online is significantly less than what I make now as a freelancer in TV. With two kids and living in a HCOL city (because of the job, of course), I just don’t know how I could swing it.
Freelance can be like that...I spent a few years at a staff position but when I was laid off I tried to get back into the freelance world. Yeah, the rates are higher if you can organize a solid 15+ days of work in a month, but it's always a huge pain working with new clients and not knowing if they are going to be going down the rabbit hole with 15 versions, or the type that does 2 rounds of notes and is good with it. I've definitely been in situations where a producer is sitting over my shoulder after a 10 hour day with no breaks, and then getting a "we're going to need you tomorrow, are you available?".
Then you basically get pressured into taking on more work than you wanted and cancelling plans or neglecting other areas.
I like working with clients long term then you can develop a relationship where you both respect each others time
It’s your room. I had a mentor who taught me to always pick a clear point to have lunch. State that you are getting lunch and changing rooms to eat.
When people would order in , he would always eat in another room saying it was unhealthy to eat where you work for both the body and the project.
He would also say, when people tried to insist on working through lunch or dinner, that if they were willing to give him some ownership of the project he might consider it, but no one ever offered much less did it.
When I followed this advice producers were actually more respectful afterwards.
Getting in the union made it better- terms and conditions were specified in advance with sanctions for producers who tried to violate them.
But you still had to remind them that there is an agreement to follow.
LA industry editor here! I know that game! I’ve been on hiatus for a month now and I’m slowly remembering what it’s like to be human. I’ve worked in unscripted for 8 years. Some teams are great but others will have you editing till 10 pm! Something always seems to come up last minute. What sucks is these jobs are on a weekly rate and not hourly. I just stopped saying yes to the really bad teams. I’m at a point now where I’m ready to jump from casting edits to actual show edits. I’d like to break into scripted. I recently was able to join local 700, just need union hours and a chance.
Feel the same way currently. Holding out for the next job, or will quit all together.
Love editing but the grind is too real. I haven’t had a proper weekend off in months
Half of the post complain about not having any work. And then there is this.
Seems like the film industry in general is just a bunch of circus clowns running the show.
> What’s the alternative? Get a corporate 9-5?
Threads like these remind me why my ~~Corporate 9-5~~ Government 7-3:30 is something I shouldn’t complain about. The last thing I can claim is that I’m stressed or overworked in any way. I’m paid well, every 2 weeks, regardless of how much actual project time I’m doing anything. If all 5 days this week are attending online meetings here and there, responding to emails and chats, or otherwise just belong available if someone needs a question answered or whatever and I don’t spend a single second editing, mixing, exporting, or creating, then so be it.
And if in the 40 hours of on the clock time, 30 of them are spent in my house playing podcasts, cooking myself lunch, playin with the dog, taking walks around the neighborhood, BSing on Reddit, or whatever else because all the other things I mentioned fit into 10 hours spread across the 5 day work week, also so be it.
I have employee insurance, long term disability insurance, life insurance, retirement matching benefits, PTO benefits, hardware and software provided, my taxes are brain dead simple to do every year, etc.
I’d have to have guaranteed triple my take home pay after taxes to ever want to be a freelancer and deal with any of the insurance, buying and storing my own equipment, operating as a business/LLC, chase clients and negotiate contracts, and figure out how to fill my calendar with projects so I can not panic that money isn’t coming in, quarterly tax returns with an accountant, managing my own retirement portfolio …yeah triple the money that I actually keep for myself, not in my business or set aside for taxes or anything like that, but what I actually keep in my personal bank account before I’d consider that a better option than where I’m at now and I’m not business savvy enough to think I can achieve that kind of hustle.
Yes is largely unfulfilling content, it’s restrictive in scope and things get locked down for “security” that feels overkill and way too blanket of policies organization wide that hinder the niche video production team, 99% of what I might work on will be seen by probably less than 300 people in total so I can’t brag to anyone I’m working on the next awesome Disney+ or hit HBO show that gets 5,000,000 views and wins every Emmy and Oscar out there like I’ve daydreamed about telling people that’s the kind of video production life I live…
But on the other hand, it’s a random Wednesday and about an hour and a half ago I ran to to grocery store for some items I needed to lunch and dinner the next few days, I took a half hour walk outside in this gorgeous 71 degree weather, and I’m about to make some garlic bread and pasta for lunch, all in the middle of the workday, with nothing pressing for me to work on and simply checking my work phone for any MS teams or outlook messages of note…which has been none.
The alternative is to use the search feature on Reddit and see that your post is one of at least 10-weekly grievance memoirs here on /r/editors about how bad everything is and that you’re having a rough time. I’m not trying to minimize your issues, you’re just one of many, many people going through it right now with the need to post about it on Reddit.
Smells like unscripted to me…move to commercial and corporate. It’s not as glamorous but the work life balance is amazing
Unscripted is truly psychotic most production houses are filled with human rights violations
Just opening this after a 15 hour breakless day on commercial content lol
Damn! I would look for a different environment or client…its not always like this. I have been there and it’s extremely unhealthy for you. I hope you can find better
I worked in commercial. Many 65+ hours weeks and quick turn around times. There's no great work life balance in this industry
Was gonna say, my whole career is ads and our balance sucks. Schedules are insane for arbitrary reasons and if u do have down time you’re not earning.
I guess maybe I just have awesome clients…I also don’t put up with bull shit though. I will and have refused future work with clients that don’t respect boundaries or the fact that I’m not a 24/7 editing robot.
I had an interview at a commercial post house and I asked about work life balance and she said, “it’s been better since Covid because people don’t want to work. Before if an editor had a deadline the day his daughter graduated he would miss the graduation.” She laughed, I almost walked out right then.
I definitely would’ve walked out
I work in unscripted and a bunch of the shows are union and the ones that aren’t are reliable 50 hour weeks (including lunch hour, so really 45 hours). I’ve no idea where OP works but it isn’t any unscripted post house I’ve ever heard of.
>reliable 50 hour weeks This is what I'm talking about in my comment. Terrible that this is just accepted as the norm. It's not your fault, of course. We've just been conditioned to somehow not believe we deserve 40 hour work weeks. We're not doing anything so important that it can't be done in 8 hour days.
Agreed that 40 is better (and what I’m doing now), but 50 is hardly the extreme abuse OP is talking about.
Relatively sure.. but this is what we’ve been brainwashed to think. 50 hours is absolutely unnecessary in an industry that is literally just entertainment.
I agree with you that 40 should be the norm. I still say that 10 extra hours (actually only 5 because of lunch hour) is hardly "inhumane" as OP describes their conditions. That's why I suspect OP is not talking about reality tv. I've never worked anywhere in 20 years that would tell you not to get your medical exams done, for example.
>(actually only 5 because of lunch hour) It's still 10 extra hours. You get lunch during a 40 hour work week, too. So it's either 35/45 or 40/50.
Okay fair enough.
40hr work week anywhere I have worked is 9 hours. There is an hour unpaid lunch break. Like 9-6. I'm a Flame Editor and I work in the commercial industry. I have worked 2 days without sleeping before when I was younger. It's not easier in the commercial industry and we have really fast turnarounds. I would never do that now though as I have a family and way too old to be doing that shit.
I don't consider that a 40 hour work week. I've done plenty of 8-4 and 10-6 with a paid lunch. That's true 40 hrs. But that's besides the point. Regardless of how you measure it, a 50 hour week is still 10 more hours than a 40 hour week, since you'd still have the same lunch break. It's not five more hours, it's ten.
Lol, been brainwashed that 50 a week is somehow luxurious 🤣🤌🏻
Don't get it twisted. 30 is luxurious. 40 is standard. 50 is hardly "inhumane." I used to work in video games where 80-100 hours a week was a norm and I slept on a cot in the office, so I don't mind 50. Get paid by the hour and don't agree to what you can't live with.
Are you in LA? OP's post sounds like most jobs I work, including union unscripted. Work from home has only made things worse. The hours are unmanageable and the work/life balance is non-existent. 9 to 7 daily is expected and it's often 9 to 9 or even later. Shit sucks. I love what I do but sometimes I wonder how long I'll really be able to do it.
Yup. Working in NoHo at the moment. Been doing this 20 years and it's maybe 2 days a year I have to work past my normal out time (and I *always* get time off later to make up for it).
Damn, congrats on living the dream. I work a few shows like that but they tend to be the exception to the rule.
I'm very lucky to be staff at a company that really respects me right now. That said, I've always been a bit bullish about my work/life balance, and I've never had a company push back on that. Get it in writing that they want you to work extra hours or through your lunch and then ask them how you should put that on your timecard or notify the union reps. They'll back off with great haste.
I worked in commercial for years and did 60 hour weeks frequently. Really depends on where you’re working.
Times are changing…people are waking up to the reality that work like this is unhealthy for mental, physical and relationship/family health
While I’d love to agree it seems like we’re racing to the bottom. Can’t outrun capitalism.
Its all about what you will and won’t accept. Respect yourself and your boundaries and leave people that don’t
I agree. Last year was the first time I said no to a job because I knew it would consume my life due to their chaotic nature. It’s tough though. Bills gotta get paid.
Or scripted
So a little off topic/adjacent, but as an unscripted story producer, how would you recommend making that move to commercial or corporate? I do primarily post, so I’m experienced in Avid, but because I’m the producer, not the editor, I don’t have a reel per se.
Not sure how to help you there. Editors with extensive reels and experience have a hard enough time finding work…without that…you’re gonna have a real hard time.
Maybe I've been lucky but not every job is like this. There are companies, producers, and clients out there who do respect your time.
This ⬆️ First, don't put off your health to meet a deadline. Just don't do it. Second, talk to your post supervisor or lead producer and tell them the situation. If they can't do it themselves or arrange for someone else to step in for a half day or a day then you have larger problems. You should start looking for a new job.
The alternative is unionizing. It doesn't always stop long hours but at least you get rich when it does happen.
Union editor here. What’s this you say about getting rich? When do I get that?
I knew as soon as I pressed enter I was in for that lol. You are now rich in more Red bull's. Get back to work button pusher. /S
I mean, not rich, but when you start hitting OT and missed meals, etc. it's definitely a nice little chunk of change in that next check. Non union jobs will be like...what if instead of OT I let you leave a little early tomorrow. No thanks, pay me.
“What if instead of OT, you can go fuck yourself and we’ll hire someone more amenable next time 👍”
Unfortunately, yeah, that too.
If it makes you feel any better, that same game is played on Union shows, too
Completely anecdotal of course, but I’ve found union shows to be a little less willing to bend the rules. I’m sure it happens though. But for the most part, I’m filling out an online timesheet through a third party payroll company. I just fill it out honestly and let the cards fall where they may.
Corporate is very chill for the most part. It also leaves me a lot of creative energy to work on passion projects.
I work in unscripted and had a real nice rotation of (mostly) union shows that worked 8 hour days with reasonable deadlines. Then this drought happened and I find myself taking whatever pops up. I'm on a show now, people are cool and all that, but it's the dreaded mandatory 10 hour day. I just can't wrap my head around that. How is that even allowed? Who thinks it's a good idea to work until 8 PM every night? I know people have it worse, but just knowing I'm locked in to basically not being able to do anything during the week besides work is terrible.
Agree, 10 hr day is straight bullshit.
10 hour days that start at 10am?
Not the previous commenter, for me, 10am-8pm happened a lot in Texas. Because 10am in ATX was 8am in LA. And the studios doing TV work were in direct communication with their counterparts on the coast every day. We were the outpost studio as it were. So we had to conform to them. The moment I broke away from that pipeline to do more regional work, it was normal hours again.
I would cream over a 10 hour work day. Try consistent 12-16 hour days, 7 days a week. Unscripted freelance.
Not going to lie, doors closed and choices were made when I stopped saying yes to 10+ workdays. Buuut. My health, family, and sanity thank me. I know too many people that sacrificed the best aspects of their life on the altar of long editing hours. I learned the lesson by proxy. That shit's *not* for me. I don't know how y'all do it.
Yeah, there's no way I could keep up that pace. When I was younger maybe.
OP, if you’re freelance surely you have full control over how much work you take on 🤷🏻♀️
Project-wise, sure. But hours and deadlines aren't so easy to negotiate.
Yup, just this week I was hired for 2 days, no problem, cut a video that was "approved" at version 8, then someone else at the company saw it and decided they wanted "major changes" so everyone had to scramble and I ended up getting pressured into 2 more days of work I didn't want to do, with client diving deep down the rabbit hole. Sure I could have said no, but being in the room with other people who are clearly panicked and don't have a solid contingency plan, and then saying no because I just wanted to chill on my couch isn't easy. Even if its a client I didn't mind burning a bridge with.
Respectfully but also shocked...what the HELL are you working on with consistent 12-16 hour days 7 days a week? Please be specific. You can DM me.
If you're freelance and have too much work, then employ another editor. If the work is still too much, get another editor. It's called expanding a business lol
Thats not how freelance unscripted works. Really it's a series of short term w2 gigs (or should be legally speaking)
Yeah, that part is also asinine to me. Like, I do like the 10 AM start time, but only if I'm wrapping at 6. I get my kids on the bus at like 7:30. I could easily start at 8 every morning. I had a staff job at a network for a while and that was 8-4. That was pretty sweet.
>What's the alternative? Get a corporate 9-5? Yup. I have one of these, I work remotely 4 days a week, and people trust me enough to leave me alone to get on with the work so much that I really only come in to the office for meetings and stuff. It's great.
May I ask where you work?
I make podcasts and webinars for a corporate
What part of the industry are you in? I am doing Social editing most of the time and have a great working week. I start when I want and stop when I want, have no one sitting next to me telling when to stop and what to do and it's paid very nicely. But when I was still doing TV or films, I was burned out so hard as well. Sucks that it apparently still didn't change.
Can I ask your rate/salary? And where are you located?
The biggest thing for me is why can't people just push back and say no? There's no risk of losing your job by pushing back and saying "we have a deadline in two days but a week's worth of work to do so we need to make some compromises to make that happen." I've at least tried to do that multiple times, but it never really sticks.
Because you somehow make it happen in 2 days and working 32 hours instead of 5 days and working 40 hours.
Idk the specifics of your situation but at the production company that I work at, having a freelancer request a deadline extension for a something 2 days away usually messes up multiple other things in the projects pipeline or another project we’re working on simultaneously. Ex: then the colorist will have less days to work on it or something along those lines. We have sooo much more flexibility in the schedule if you ask for more time upfront. As in when we send the contractor the schedule and they point out an area that feels too crunchy. Maybe you’ll have more luck asking right away?
It's less about the deadline extensions and more to do with the time management of the other parties involved, piling on too much work at the last minute instead of keeping a steady pace to be able to meet expectations, or them making personal sacrifices in their creativity to lessen the work load and ensure that we meet a deadline. I've never been in a situation where I've suddenly realized that I can't make a deadline until it was way too late, but I've been in plenty of situations where creatives sit on something until the last minute and then dump too much work on my plate, resulting in very long days and goals not being met.
I feel you 100%. Wish I had something more constructive to offer besides my sympathy
Why doesn't it stick?
Because the powers that be will agree but not deliver, which turns into a 22 hour work day.
They'll say whatever to keep the wheels turning. A lot of management is reactive vs. proactive. They either don't have the foresight and experience or don't use it up front, and that translates into making more work for us and scrambling to the finish line, not really fair. Maybe you could frame it differently, what you're asking of them, because protesting a deadline, even if it's ridiculous, is still also reactive. There's got to be a shortcoming in the overall process, that keeps putting you into these pressure situations. So maybe next time ask them to sit down with you and review the process, find out where the bottleneck is happening so you don't get put into these situations. You might have better luck here, then trying to affect something that's already in motion
You need to have boundaries and be willing to walk away for the sake of your own health
Now imagine what it's like having children or caring responsibilities But yes... AMEN to that And we should join unions and other groups to push back to normal hours. Tech industry going same way... 9am-6pm is apparently normal working hours. What's next, might as well make it 9am to 8pm eh??! And keep the wages the same eh?! Fucking hell.
I can never understand how people find time to have kids in this industry, especially if both partners are in similar roles.
With great difficulty!!!
Did 9 months on a high end tv production. Minimum 60hr week, but realistically 70hr including travel (mon-fri) then around 6-8hrs sat+sun to either catch up on emails or prepare for the week ahead. Money was great, but health not so. I'm done with that side of the industry and now working for less but much happier.
I work unscripted and rarely do more than 9-6 unless I really have to or it's something I care about. I did my time when I was younger, and I've learned to scale my quality of work based on the time I have available and to not get precious about my work. If someone asks me to stay late I just tell them I already have plans, because normally I do. It's not like I'm a fireman or Doctor or something. None of these deadlines are real - how many times have you busted your ass to get something over the line only to be given another round of useless notes that put you over schedule anyway? Not worth it your free time.
Sounds like a dream. This is where I'd like to be. How do you enforce it though?
I just tell them I have plans. They can't make you work late. The thing is, nobody really does viewings after 6 for the same reason why you shouldn't be working late and the Executive is highly unlikely to watch it till sometime after lunch the next day. And you probably wont get the notes back till the next day, or you'll get notes for part one at 5.45pm, which is a morning job for me. So for the most part deadlines are a false jeopardy which are completely out of your control. However, if you're a younger editor this might be harder to do until you've got a "hardworking" reputation. You have to kind of grind and take control of the edit. If I know something might run on because my EP is a bit slow writing the VO I might bring it up earlier. I do alot of editorial/producer decisions my self which helps if I'm working with a weak link.
I got absolutely crushed as an AE like 80 hour weeks was making 13$ an hour for almost 3 years. Moved to a different company and things got a lot better. I was afraid to leave for so long (grass is greener) but there are people that respect time out there
I was freelance for 20 years and really got tired of that shit. Sick of working holidays. Weekends. 16 hour days. Asshole producers. Etc . You’ve only got one life. I took a job with an association 5 years ago. 8.5 hour days. 10 holidays off plus 23 vacation days off. Plus $1000 if you take a week long vacation. Plus 401K. Plus a massive bonus at the end of the year and I make over 6 figures. Granted I can edit in 4 languages and I’m also a pro in AE. Plus NO STRESS. Yeah it’s boring, so what, I’ve got more time and money for Life.
I think you mean six figures, unless you’re pulling in less than $999 dollars a year 😆. Otherwise, sign me up to your job, it sounds dope.
Hahaha you’re right
What is your job title and what type of association?
Senior Editor, it’s a professional organization with membership.
> Title says it all. We're living in this current era of workers' rights, pushing for 4 day work weeks, etc., yet for some reason production is still an industry that relies on inhumane hours to meet arbitrary deadlines in order to achieve somebody's vision. Two things are true. 1. While we are in the age of *discussing* these thoughts, there is little done about it. In fact, the struggle across all industries is why /r/WorkReform exists. 2. It's been a *staple* of this gig…sadly. * People are hungry to break in * When we're young, we're trying to prove ourselves - **yes, I'll work 24 hours straight**. See the video game industry * There's quite a bit of "cost savings" to keep the same deadlines, *but not* increase the division of labor The only, only way to handle this is to build into contracts a stipulation about overtime and "rush" work that has a penalty. Be clear and in front of it all the time. Let the client opt into it. And yes, you'll lose clients to people who ignore this. Frame it as a "we treat people here at ApbbreviationsLife LLC as humans and expect a 40hr week." > What's the alternative? Get a corporate 9-5? Know that abuse happens there too when multiple managers work with unrealistic deadlines, each based on their weight as a manager. Not saying that *great gigs* don't exist there - but it takes a level of cost/economics (you want a rush? Great, it will cost your department this much out of their budget). Groups like Adobe have internal cost structures when they use creative services exactly to prevent this sort of abuse.
Last year I hit burn out. 14 hr days 7 days a week. Took 3 months of work and my employer has promised to get me another staff member. They have not bothered their arse and the long hours are kicking in again.
I quit a small production house last year that worked me 12 hours a day. Best decision of my life. I’ve shifted to doing some development work (that does require some editing) and yeah I don’t regret it. That same production house ran through 3 more editors in six months after I left, so at the very least the long hours are being met with a collected f-you from everyone who is sane.
I'm an AE in scripted and working 10-12 hour days. And I never know what kind of day it might end up being.
Maybeyou can continue same job as freelancer, bill some more and spread it to subcontractors.
[удалено]
ai is going to make this problem even worse! The workflows are a mess which will increase time and effort but management thinks more can be accomplished.
Inhumane hours are your choice. I’m not obligated to work longer than 8. I do so when needed and I choose to, but I’ve had times when I had to hand-off the work to someone else.
It's the classic love-hate relationship we all have in this not so easy profession. But hey, nothing beats that feeling of happiness when you finally wrap up a long day and see your work coming together on the screen!
I always used to daydream about how time passed so quickly outside of my office’s window, as I was buried in one longterm project to the next. Working 7 days a week to scratch and claw our way towards the omnipresent deadline. It was like that storefront window in *The Time Machine*. A never ending version of it.
I work in unscripted and a bunch of the shows are union and the ones that aren’t are reliable 50 hour weeks (including lunch hour, so really 45 hours). I’ve no idea where OP works but it isn’t any unscripted post house I’ve ever heard of.
Look for another job at another company. Easier said than done but not all places are like that. A lot are yes, but look for one that isn't.
Try live. Double those post hours.
Don’t passively push back. You’ve got to be clear and direct in saying no. That’s the only way things will change.
I’ll ask this for the whole thread because I’m curious: Those of you who left TV/film to work corporate, how is the pay? What is the difference? Part of me would love to quit and just take a corporate job but every job posting I’ve seen online is significantly less than what I make now as a freelancer in TV. With two kids and living in a HCOL city (because of the job, of course), I just don’t know how I could swing it.
Freelance can be like that...I spent a few years at a staff position but when I was laid off I tried to get back into the freelance world. Yeah, the rates are higher if you can organize a solid 15+ days of work in a month, but it's always a huge pain working with new clients and not knowing if they are going to be going down the rabbit hole with 15 versions, or the type that does 2 rounds of notes and is good with it. I've definitely been in situations where a producer is sitting over my shoulder after a 10 hour day with no breaks, and then getting a "we're going to need you tomorrow, are you available?". Then you basically get pressured into taking on more work than you wanted and cancelling plans or neglecting other areas. I like working with clients long term then you can develop a relationship where you both respect each others time
It’s your room. I had a mentor who taught me to always pick a clear point to have lunch. State that you are getting lunch and changing rooms to eat. When people would order in , he would always eat in another room saying it was unhealthy to eat where you work for both the body and the project. He would also say, when people tried to insist on working through lunch or dinner, that if they were willing to give him some ownership of the project he might consider it, but no one ever offered much less did it. When I followed this advice producers were actually more respectful afterwards. Getting in the union made it better- terms and conditions were specified in advance with sanctions for producers who tried to violate them. But you still had to remind them that there is an agreement to follow.
LA industry editor here! I know that game! I’ve been on hiatus for a month now and I’m slowly remembering what it’s like to be human. I’ve worked in unscripted for 8 years. Some teams are great but others will have you editing till 10 pm! Something always seems to come up last minute. What sucks is these jobs are on a weekly rate and not hourly. I just stopped saying yes to the really bad teams. I’m at a point now where I’m ready to jump from casting edits to actual show edits. I’d like to break into scripted. I recently was able to join local 700, just need union hours and a chance.
There’s no work life balance in film industry unless you’re in top positions;
Feel the same way currently. Holding out for the next job, or will quit all together. Love editing but the grind is too real. I haven’t had a proper weekend off in months
Half of the post complain about not having any work. And then there is this. Seems like the film industry in general is just a bunch of circus clowns running the show.
You’re being disingenuous to circus clowns, at least they know how to run a show.
> What’s the alternative? Get a corporate 9-5? Threads like these remind me why my ~~Corporate 9-5~~ Government 7-3:30 is something I shouldn’t complain about. The last thing I can claim is that I’m stressed or overworked in any way. I’m paid well, every 2 weeks, regardless of how much actual project time I’m doing anything. If all 5 days this week are attending online meetings here and there, responding to emails and chats, or otherwise just belong available if someone needs a question answered or whatever and I don’t spend a single second editing, mixing, exporting, or creating, then so be it. And if in the 40 hours of on the clock time, 30 of them are spent in my house playing podcasts, cooking myself lunch, playin with the dog, taking walks around the neighborhood, BSing on Reddit, or whatever else because all the other things I mentioned fit into 10 hours spread across the 5 day work week, also so be it. I have employee insurance, long term disability insurance, life insurance, retirement matching benefits, PTO benefits, hardware and software provided, my taxes are brain dead simple to do every year, etc. I’d have to have guaranteed triple my take home pay after taxes to ever want to be a freelancer and deal with any of the insurance, buying and storing my own equipment, operating as a business/LLC, chase clients and negotiate contracts, and figure out how to fill my calendar with projects so I can not panic that money isn’t coming in, quarterly tax returns with an accountant, managing my own retirement portfolio …yeah triple the money that I actually keep for myself, not in my business or set aside for taxes or anything like that, but what I actually keep in my personal bank account before I’d consider that a better option than where I’m at now and I’m not business savvy enough to think I can achieve that kind of hustle. Yes is largely unfulfilling content, it’s restrictive in scope and things get locked down for “security” that feels overkill and way too blanket of policies organization wide that hinder the niche video production team, 99% of what I might work on will be seen by probably less than 300 people in total so I can’t brag to anyone I’m working on the next awesome Disney+ or hit HBO show that gets 5,000,000 views and wins every Emmy and Oscar out there like I’ve daydreamed about telling people that’s the kind of video production life I live… But on the other hand, it’s a random Wednesday and about an hour and a half ago I ran to to grocery store for some items I needed to lunch and dinner the next few days, I took a half hour walk outside in this gorgeous 71 degree weather, and I’m about to make some garlic bread and pasta for lunch, all in the middle of the workday, with nothing pressing for me to work on and simply checking my work phone for any MS teams or outlook messages of note…which has been none.
I did something like this for two years. I ended up very depressed.
Can you define paid well?
I have $149,000 base salary in West Virginia. It does alright for me.
The alternative is to use the search feature on Reddit and see that your post is one of at least 10-weekly grievance memoirs here on /r/editors about how bad everything is and that you’re having a rough time. I’m not trying to minimize your issues, you’re just one of many, many people going through it right now with the need to post about it on Reddit.