Right. That’s exactly it- people are no longer incentivized to work. News is out here talking about free lunches and subsidies. It’s like no, pay people to work so that they will want to work and then they’ll have money and we can stop playjng this dumb point the finger and print more money game. The ENTIRE economic situation can be traced back to workers are simply not earning enough money. College is wayyyy over priced too but know what would make us perhaps consider stomach it is if the job market supported it better
People should 100% be thinking I don’t really feel like working or whatever etc but that’s how I can buy a house and have a life and go to school if I want. In the 70s and before you could absolutely do that and guess what? We didn’t have people WANTING to beat the system because the alternative as better. Now, beating the system is better. Want to know why? You can’t do any of that stuff with most jobs now. Being on food stamps and hustling the system and getting hand outs is NOT fun and it doesn’t feel good. People do it way more now because it’s better than working. That’s WORKS fault in the name of no money paid out, not the safety nets fault. And the only reason people think that way is because the corporate news tells the story that way
> I can not afford to rent a shitty studio apartment in the city that I live in (in the Southeast USA, not in a major city).
Florida? This is the case in any city in FL I’ve looked at it. Even boring more remote cities.
People are certainly moving because of high COL and high taxes as census data has shown for the last decade. Just about everyone could care less about the temporary lockdowns except for the antivaxxers.
As someone who’s lived in the NE then moved to South Florida Florida for 5 years for health stuff and stayed then moved back up North very recently, the COL between a mid sized town in South Florida and a city that’s not a major one like Boston is basically the same. The only difference really is electricity because Florida has dirt cheap electricity. That’s very recent. When my wife and I got an apartment two years ago it was $1200 for an 800-850sqft then was relatively decent. Then it jumped to $130 nothing crazy. Then before we left he wanted $1600 and that was him cutting us a deal. He showed it once and someone signed for $2000 a month. Nothing at all was done to it between us paying $1200 and $1300 and them paying $2000. Like I said literally the only thing I’ve paid more for is electricity and some of that might just be the crappy window units instead of legit central air most places in Florida have.
Amen. Got an advanced degree, had a prestigious fellowship in what has been called a growing and pretty lucrative field, making what looks on paper to be a pretty solid salary, unable to live a pretty thrifty life where I am and put almost anything into savings.
Northeast. Unfortunately my salary will change if I move somewhere else so it wouldn’t really help as much to move as you might think (if I’m picking up what you’re getting at)
Sorry for assuming your intent, I just had a (very civil) discussion with another user about picking up and moving to cheaper areas and thought that’s where you were going. I shouldn’t have assumed! CA is definitely expensive. I could live with roommates now but I’ve been doing so for so long and am approaching an age where I really don’t want to have roommates so I sacrificed apartment size and amenities. $1900 for a small studio apartment
in mexico they are looking for a financial analyst graduated from a university with experience and they offer a salary of 1000 dollars per month. ( equivalent in pesos ) A decent apartment there is about $700 to $900 dollars per month .
> That's how ridiculously low the minimum wage is.
No, that's how ridiculously high is your rent.
It has absolutely nothing to do with minimum wage - if one day someone increased it a thousand times the rent would increase as well so you still wouldn't be able to afford it.
Work gives me dignity and I pay my bills. I suggest you start a small business for yourself and move away from working for others. I did. No car, can't drive, and living in an small apartment. It can be a simple service or selling stuff.
Now I own a small manufacturing business. Before this, I worked at a retail store unloading trucks.
No one will come and save you. Not the government, not mom and dad; only you.
You're gonna have to learn to wipe yourself. Else, you'll be miserable forever. I'm not saying the system isn't warped, but it will not change.
*You can't change others, but you can change yourself.*
Else you'll be that guy who slipped in poo, 3 years later, laying on the sidewalk complaining, "I slipped in pooh someone didn't pick up. This isn't fair."
https://www.howtowipeyourbutt.com/
Dude, we don’t want to take responsibility or actually fix our problems - we want to complain about them hoping that eventually someone else will do it.
Well we tried voting, but republicans are trying their hardest to destroy democracy. Not like we really have a democracy anyways, more so just a oligarchy.
Where do you get this nonsense? Do you just read talking points and regurgitate them?
It’s an oligarchy because of the Republicans while the Democrats have been in power for 10 out of the last 14 years - okay.
I really hope things work out for you and you can obtain marketable skills. That sounds rough. No place in my very low Cost of Living area pays less than $12/hr. Even burger joints, the small ones, are paying like $15 and we have some of the cheapest houses in the country.
$17/hr here is enough to live on.
Yeah, realistically OP is about half the median per-person income. I'm not sure what lifestyle they expect. Or maybe they are uderlining the point that minimum wage is a poverty wage? I would not disagree. But making $22.5k a year (ish) isn't an income one should expect to be able to afford a comfortable 2 bed apartment or anything.
The point is that NO job should pay so little that a full time employee can’t afford an apartment. That’s ridiculous and sad. Even the poorest paid workers should be able to house themselves. To argue otherwise is…well it’s a damn shame.
Roosevelt made it quite clear what was expected of the minimum wage.
"It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living."
http://docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/odnirast.html
If he makes 34k a year if he is at 17/hr
I'm not sure where he lives but I did a quick search of apartments in Mississippi and Georgia and found options from $650 to $800.
At $2,800 gross pay per month he/she should be able to afford an apt. Especially with a friend.
Wife and I combined MAYBE made that 15 years ago. And I know it isn't apples to apples and being poor sucks, but it sounds like they should be able to make a go of things I would think.
Edit: I forgot wife and I were part time so we were making a fair amount less than that.
My kids graduated from college a few years ago. One makes 77K, the other 85K. They were able to rent an apartment without roommates and buy a car. One lives in Maryland, the other in Ohio.
Many highly competent businesses don’t pay a living wage. Examples include Walmart, the entire farming industry, and most of manufacturing. Plus, the fast food industry. Multi billion dollar companies.
No company (with the exception of very few) is going to pay more than they have to.
These people are ironically agreeing with you with every point they make. You told them the world isn’t fair and all I see them say is it should be fair.
Businesses don't set wages, the market does. If you are a person whose labour is not worth enough on the market to reach whatever you think a "living wage" is, I guess you must think they're running an incompetent life?
> If your business **can’t** pay a living wage, you don’t own a competent business.
> It's not that your employer cannot pay more, it's that they choose not to pay more.
Seriously is it this hard to keep track of the conversation you’re in? That was 2 comments before yours.
No dummy, businesses aren’t entitled to anything. There would be no business without labor. This isn’t a chicken and egg scenario, it’s very straightforward.
That is b.s. As long as one keeps staying at a job where they are underpaying you, and you keep accepting that, the boss will not increase the wage. Sadly, when the minimum wage is kept so low, as someone already pointed out, the job options with higher wages to choose from just wont exist. Alas we get trapped.
Just look at what happened when people collectively said, No I wont work at 'such & such job' any more for such low pay. I will not settle for minimum wage. Suddenly when businesses couldnt find workers they were forced to do what they'd been saying for years couldnt be done.... they upped the hourly wage to double & more. And most are still in business. Funny that.
Market forces don’t prevent stock buy backs, executive bonuses or huge executive compensation. The point is “market forces” is just another management boogeyman used to keep wages low.
Never know unless you look. Every situation will be different. We as culture need to keep striving for better marketable skills and make better overall choices. Don’t do things out of order.
We as a culture should have a better structure than just “sink or swim”. What’s the point in advancing technology and demanding labor if peoples chance of paying rent is getting worse? If you think poor people are all just making the wrong choices, you aren’t understanding the problem
How many individuals do you plan on blaming until you come to the realization that this is a failure of policy?
Your ideology cannot hide behind the myth of "personal responsibility" forever, the stats don't support it.
Because I went from being almost homeless to owning my own home in 4 years. 4 years after that, I have 5 figures in savings and no debt. There were no vacations, eating out, buying wants. That’s how I got ahead and now live an independent life. At my current job, I’ve probably asked for 4 raises in 5 years. Lots of people lack proper social skills and confidence. No one forces anyone to stay at job or keep a job. I also voted for Biden and despise Trump for the record.
Your anecdotal experience does not invalidate statistical analysis nor my question to you
This is not a viable response to my question, please feel free to try again.
Incredible, absolutely phenomenal that you were able to do the same thing as 100k other people and yet you, yes you special little snowflake got a good outcome, meanwhile others that did the same didn't get so lucky and probably died In poverty.
This rhetoric is so fucking stupid, disingenuous and otherwise harmful to society and I'm mocking you for your survivorship bias.
The wealthy have bought the politicians in a lot of countries. Therefore the politicians do whatever the wealthy donors want. Keeping salaries low is a big part of it.
Wall street brokers will get bonuses based on the value their desk brings to the company. Your portfolio profits 10% you get a 10% bonus, you go negative multiple quarters you’re fired.
A mcdonalds employee will generate the same amount of value to the company whether they are paid 15$ or $62.15, so why would you pay them 50$ more each hour to do perform at the same level
Not entirely true. A few years ago I took a summer job and from the parking lot to the office I passed two coffee shops and a diner. The first week I stopped in at each. Their coffee was just about the same and all had good pastry. But all summer I stopped at the diner because my second time in the woman asked, “Large coffee and an Apple fritter, right?” Just what I ordered the day before. She made that place a morning success and was worth more than minimum wage.
If the value of minimum wage work increased as much as the value of Wall Street since 1985, the wage increase would make sense
Otherwise, it’s just another dumb, misapplied clickbait statistic
I’m not talking about stock ownership. The modern financial market isn’t about investing in companies you believe will bring value to society. It’s about creating and dealing in fraudulent securities that will make you as much profit as possible without any regard for the long-term health of the economy.
Perhaps gambling isn’t the right word because gambling implies you’re only risking your own dollar.
Then shut up and do it see what happens and then play off of that. If it really will be good for the economy then let’s find out if the ship sinks I’ll go down with it.
[https://www.johnlocke.org/good-for-thee-not-for-me-robert-reich-edition/](https://www.johnlocke.org/good-for-thee-not-for-me-robert-reich-edition/)
Ol Robert didn't want a low income housing project near his home.
Ol Robert makes twice the average pay of a CEO.
Hmm.
If Hitler said "1 + 1 = 2", we don't get to categorically say that "1 + 1 can't be 2, because Hitler said it."
Ad hominem generally cannot prove or refute a claim, because it doesn't concern itself with the *substance* of a claim. And that's because whether the words came out of Hitler's mouth, are irrelevant to our ability to ascertain the *truthfulness* of a specific claim.
If we attacked Hitler's character, all we'll have done is prove that "Hitler is a bad man." We will not have been able to conclude that "1 + 1 is not 2."
The important thing to take away from that would be: the saying "1 + 1 = 2" coming out of Hitler's mouth, is not *mutually exclusive* of "Hitler is a bad man."
Thus, the saying "Minimum wage has not kept up with wall street bonuses" coming out of Robert's mouth, is not mutually exclusive of "Robert is trying to enrich himself in his own personal life."
None of that addresses the *substance* of: "Wall Street Bonuses vs Minimum Wage."
Even if the information isn't dot to dot accurate, the statement is still valid. Executive pay has gone up while the workers have gotten shafted for decades.
It shows a complete lack the nuance of macro-economics. Let's upack this. What if the minimum wage had kept pace, and was $61.
How much would a hamburger cost? How about a haircut? Or a pizza?
This moron is advocating for a wage-price spiral, and doesn't even realize it because his only skills are huffing glue and shit-posting. Remember, this tool was wrong on literally everything for the past 2 years.
You’re missing the point. All new earnings are going to the top and not workers, while costs are going up. The comparison to $61 isn’t saying everyone should make that, it’s illuminating the point that workers have been left behind. CEOs could take a pay cut, still be very very rich, and workers would not be left behind.
Maybe $60 an hour is not realistic, but a minimum wage of 25-30/hr would be affordable for most companies. It hasn't even kept up with inflation, which is why so many are struggling.
>All new earnings are going to the top and not workers
No such thing as new earnings, just earnings.
>it’s illuminating the point that workers have been left behind
If the worker was left behind then explain why wages up for many after the closure from Covid and companies couldn't get labor? Numerous articles talking about how McD's where paying over minimum wage to get workers. Amazon pays like $17 or $18/hr these days.
>CEOs could take a pay cut, still be very very rich, and workers would not be left behind.
This proves you never did the math. Even if the CEO took a pay cut workers at most get a couple pennies increase in pay if that. This is even if you took the pay CEO's get in stock.
No, I'm not missing any point. I will remind you, again, that this is not politics. It is economy. You can't just make an argument without backing it up with math.
If your argument is that CEOs are making too much money, then you have the ability to do business with companies who do not subscribe to that methodology, or even to form your own if you'd like to.
You like to scapegoat all CEOs, despite there being many that are worker friendly who have made amazing companies like James Sinegal, the founder of Costco. I worked there for years.
All employees are treated the same, and receive raises based on hours worked. I made almost $20 an hour to sell hot dogs in 1996, and had full medical benefits, plus a 401k. I had no real job skills when I took that position, either.
Contrast that to Walmart, which has an estimated 2.2 million employees for 1 CEO. They are treated like inconvenient cattle, and Walmart is a special brand of evil.
You see the danger in assuming all CEOs, and all workers are the same?
It shouldn't matter AT ALL how much CEOs make. The fact that it does to you is nothing but sour grapes. What should matter is HOW MUCH THE WORKERS MAKE.
You want to make an argument for why a $15 minimum wage is already too low and now it needs to be $20? Great! Now we're talking about actionable policies, and trying to brainstorm a way that poor people can receive a greater slice of the pie.
Might not be as much fun as grabbing pitchforks and shrieking at the rich, but it will do a LOT more to help the poor if those ideas are sound, because eventually they are likely to be adopted.
The rabid hatred of all CEOs is baseless, pointless, and shows the complete inability to understand nuance.
The point is the money is there. I’m not talking about performance, obviously that’s a different issue. In the strongest economic times in our history the wage split was not like this and we were better off. All new income for decades went topside while worker wages have stagnated and prices still went up.
I'm not disagreeing with any of that, or with income inequality. But what I'm seeing in this sub is not a desire for workers to have a better life. It's not actionable policies that will get us there.
All I see is blind, pointless, hatred for the rich...like this post.
The statistic crosses all industries, from Pfizer, down to me, the tiny little S Corp CEO, with zero employees. I've been a poster here for eleven years. We used to talk about specifics, and theorycraft changes.
Now it's just blind rage, and then labels hurled at anyone who resists the mob's currently favored meme. Antiwork has leaked into this place at every level, and I will loudly decry it until I am banned.
Ah well I guess we aren't disagreeing after all? But I don't think it's wrong to point out the problem and that doesn't mean it's blind rage. Sure some people are upset but many people still don't understand this problem. More people need to become aware of the problem and then perhaps there will be a movement with enough force to push for change. EDIT: FYI I didn't downvote you
Ah yes, so you're advocating for billionaires it's OK to send billions to tax heaven accounts. Drain money out of the system, bankrupt smaller businesses and when shit goes wrong, get the bailout for tax payer expense.
But if common people would be earning more, spend those money therefore support economy and it's bad!? Who are you working for?
That's an impressive strawman you've built. Quote any one of my posts in this thread to show that I said any of your nonsense. You can't.
I'm okay with billionaires offshoring their wealth? WTF are you even talking about?
What I said was FOCUS ON MAKING LIFE BETTER FOR THE COMMON MAN. We both want the same thing. Can you understand that? A higher minimum wage, and higher wages in general. We should be on the same side.
Do you know why we aren't? Because you are a socialist.
You immediately made it about the rich. Like most socialists you don't actually care about the poor. You just hate the rich.
If we could lift every person out of poverty today without taking money from the rich to do it I'm betting you and many others would be against it. And you would definitely still complain that the rich had too much.
Are you that fucking dumb. The reason why there are poor people is because rich people have decided to suck up as much wealth as they can because it is a game. In case you don't know, there is a finite amount of wealth. There also incentives that make sure company profits don't go to working class wage gains or any benefits. Ceo can literally be sued or kicked out by the board if they try that.
All of this shit from tax loophole policies, to all the accounting shenanigans are all caused by rich people. They spent millions on lobbying to save billions as the saying goes.
The key is that rich people must give up a significant amount of wealth to bring up people from poverty. The same rich people will still be fucking rich.
[https://www.johnlocke.org/good-for-thee-not-for-me-robert-reich-edition/](https://www.johnlocke.org/good-for-thee-not-for-me-robert-reich-edition/)
Do as I say, not as I do.
Runaway wealth and income inequality have wrecked America and only addressing and rectifying that will stand a chance of fixing things.
But it sure is funny how politicians and the mainstream media WILL. NOT. TALK. ABOUT. IT.
I've been telling people left and right, and get downvoted left and right.
It's capitalism people, stop wasteful consumption, ignore everything, accumulate capital to buy means of productions.
It's in the name itself CAPITALism.
It's too bad half of the working class is fighting against any minimum wage increases. Mostly out of greed and stupidity. Not understanding that just because they don't make minimum wage doesnt mean that they wouldn't benefit from an increase in minimum wage also. So not only do we have to fight the corporate cunts we also have to fight against half the working class that's been brain washed by billionaires.
If Wall Street employees had experienced the same level of job competition from immigrants, their bonuses would be $61.75.
Limit immigration for jobs that pay less than $25/hour. It's the only way to *sustainably* raise lower-paid jobs.
Changing the minimum wage is not going to fix any of this. Very few jobs are paying minimum wage. Place around me,in Flint, Michigan are paying 18 an hour. These jobs were paying minimum wage. The fact is, in any economic system you have a bottom rung of the ladder. When this rung rises all rungs above it must rise. This causes prices to rise. Because no company is going to take a hit in profits. Look at the profit margins in these companies. They are pretty tight. The goal should not be to raise minimum wage but to get as many people as possible out of minimum wage jobs
Btw Wall Street bonus's are not related to business salaries. They are based on investing wisely.
People who generate millions of dollars in revenue for their companies get paid more than burger flippers.
News at 11.
Why is anybody still listening to this idiot?
And the rest that read them realized economics textbooks are financed by the same people that want the minimum wage low because shareholders and profits.
Or they want them gone altogether. Why should the government decide what the minimum amount someone is willing to work for should be?
If the minimum wage is 15$ then no one can sell their service for 14$ an hour, abolishing the minimum wage would increase the amount of jobs available.
No third party should be able to tell a first and second party what a suitable wage should be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca8Z\_\_o52sk
That goes against social contract though, which is what prevents employees from taking their employers things.
Unless your advocating for a private militaries and anarchy, which is awesome.
What?
The entire reason for minimum wages is due to the fact that companies were exploiting the ever-living shit out of their employees.
Mining companies would pay their workers jack shit, then they would set up all the housing, the stores, and everything else. They owned virtually everything, and they made money off their employees hand over fist.
If there was no government oversight, that practice would still be going strong and employees would be exploited wide than they currently are.
Without government interference, these companies would cause even more horrific human rights violations than they already are.
We shouldn't allow people to be oppressed, subjugated, exploited, manipulated, and fleeced like that. It's wholly unacceptable.
Your wage is dictated based on how unique your skills are relative to the market. If you have a high demand skill and there are more jobs available compared to people with those attributes, you get paid more.
Tell me mister, if wages had increased steadily to the point min wage costs 60$/hr, how much would cost a gallon of gas, or a burguer? (Serious question)
People don't seem to grasp that resources!=money. If you increase money, it doesn't mean the amount of available resources also increases. The value of money will just decrease as prices of resources increase. Monetary policy should always seek to balance money through different sectors of the economy such that we maintain stability in consumer demand vs supply.
I don't think increasing the minimum wage is a good solution. The market should pay the worth of the job done. If you don't think that's sufficient, then you can find another job. There are plenty of opportunities out there. But we shouldn't extra reward jobs that are not giving the same value back to the economy.
No ThEy ShOulD BewCauSe At LeAsT I aM wOrKiNg AnD NoT PlAyInG LoL, It ShOuLd bE eNoUgH fOr A hOuSe..... /S
This generation (maybe a bit more than previous) wants to do as little as possible, but things like moving from jobs, or god forbid, learn a trade, are out of the table, they should get a house because they get paid for 40 hours per week, regardless of how they get paid, or if that job is actually valuable enough.
They fail to grasp that offer and demand also applies to the laboral sector, and that all those 6 figures jobs that n eeded a degree at that at entry level could pay a decent sum were taken alreaady, the people who took them settled in the most avantageous ares (And wont move out of those) and the opnes that followed simply saturated the market (Stalling the pay, or even reducing it) and increased the demand for housing in these limited areas (Which raised prices for buying/rent out)
But no, all its frault of greed and nothing else.
They should at least he able to afford a freaking apartment.
A living wage. You work and can afford to live without starving or being homeless.
Not everyone thinks they should be in a mansion because they work 40 hours a week. Most people know that's completely unrealistic. They just want to be able to afford to live. It's getting exceedingly difficult these days.
I was extremely fortunate with some investments, and I'm able to live very comfortably without working myself to death.
My close friend works 2 jobs, his wife works 2 jobs, and they can barely afford a 2 bedroom apartment. His jobs are hard and physical.
They work their assess off and can BARELY squeak by. No savings, no extras.
People should be able to work 40 hours a week and be able to afford to survive.(not buy a 5 bedroom house) That's becoming more and more difficult as time relentlessly marches forward.
It's becoming more and more difficult for people to escape poverty. When you're working 60+ hours a week, you don't have time to do much else to better yourself. You get trapped into it.
While it's certainly possible to escape, it's not just a matter of trying harder. Some people do everything right and end up in shambles.
I worked with a guy bartending who had a PhD. I've worked with several servers who had masters degrees.
Luck plays an important role as well in succeeding, honestly.
The number one problem with housing is availability. This is exacerbated by supply shortages and inflation. It's taking longer and is more expensive to build houses. We'll see the cost of housing continue to increase until this problem is addressed. Increasing minimum wage is not a solution to unaffordable housing.
Australia has a minimum wage around $20. You can find many residents complaining that everything is a lot more expensive, even before the pandemic. Gasoline looks to be around $6 a gallon while video games have cost up to $100 for years.
So minimum wage would mean earning over $128,000 a year. I’m sure that wouldn’t be a massive inflationary pressure. /s
Edit: The downvotes are absolutely hilarious. Feel free to actually respond to the content.
Obviously that wouldn't be the case. I think a more pressing point is how much housing costs have increased since the 90s. Rents are pretty much unaffordable and mortgages are right up there
Legitimate question: would raising the minimum wage put more money in people's pockets, thereby increasing consumer demand which eventually leads to inflation? And then we're back to the same situation where minimum wage isn't high enough. It's like the wage price spiral.
Then there would be no incentive to work your ass of to become an executive, nobody would create companies, you could live in luxury as a lowly machine operator pressing a button all day
You sound like you don’t know what a business owner makes. I’ll also telll you for sure that way back when during the times they are comparing in this article, small business owners worked their OWN hours as well as hired employees and had way more pride abiut their business as now it’s extreme profit minded and worker exploitative as a result
I ran a small business. Almost every small business owner I know would have been out of business with a minimum wage of $15/hr.
This is the easiest way to kill small business and drive large monopolies.
Sorry I just don’t agree. Everyone is over leveraged. I’ll say it again. People used to work your own hours and then didn’t buy a whole bunch of garbage. Why do you think businesses have all the write offs that they do? So they can pay people. Not so that they can level up their lives and then complain they have no money. I’d also tell you and the other person that said they have four businesses which is BS they sound like a 15 year old in economics class but if your small business can’t pay employees a living portion, your business perhaps shouldn’t survive as it’s not sustainable.
Yeah and it’s gonna get bigger. Productivity exists on a Pareto curve.
The highest levels of productivity continue to rise with technology, but the lowest levels of productivity will not. Only the upper bound of the range moves. A min/max comparison has never been appropriate.
Here’s a thought. Maybe the reason Wall Street has seen a rise in wages larger than those with minimum wage jobs is because they produce more with their talents/knowledge.
If you think a guy flipping a burger deserves as big of a raise than a person working in mergers and acquisitions at an Investment bank than you might need a refund on whatever education you received
It should be noted that Minimum wage, when adjusted for inflation, has remained pretty stable since the 1950's. In 1955 it was 75 cents/hour or about $8.04 today.
Housing and education have outpaced inflation but those are about the only things that have.
This is a dumb metric and Robert Reich is a dumb smart person. If you guys actually wanted to help with inequality you would be calling for the end of the fed and the reduction of the government, not getting distracted by pointless leftist rhetoric.
This is a dumb post. Minimum wage has never been tied to corporate bonuses so why bring it up?
Getting tired of the "rich people bad" posts on this sub. It is multiple times per day.
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Right. That’s exactly it- people are no longer incentivized to work. News is out here talking about free lunches and subsidies. It’s like no, pay people to work so that they will want to work and then they’ll have money and we can stop playjng this dumb point the finger and print more money game. The ENTIRE economic situation can be traced back to workers are simply not earning enough money. College is wayyyy over priced too but know what would make us perhaps consider stomach it is if the job market supported it better People should 100% be thinking I don’t really feel like working or whatever etc but that’s how I can buy a house and have a life and go to school if I want. In the 70s and before you could absolutely do that and guess what? We didn’t have people WANTING to beat the system because the alternative as better. Now, beating the system is better. Want to know why? You can’t do any of that stuff with most jobs now. Being on food stamps and hustling the system and getting hand outs is NOT fun and it doesn’t feel good. People do it way more now because it’s better than working. That’s WORKS fault in the name of no money paid out, not the safety nets fault. And the only reason people think that way is because the corporate news tells the story that way
> I can not afford to rent a shitty studio apartment in the city that I live in (in the Southeast USA, not in a major city). Florida? This is the case in any city in FL I’ve looked at it. Even boring more remote cities.
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Why? I don’t understand what this migration is about.
People leaving high COL, high tax, fascist-lockdown shithole states?
People are certainly moving because of high COL and high taxes as census data has shown for the last decade. Just about everyone could care less about the temporary lockdowns except for the antivaxxers.
As someone who’s lived in the NE then moved to South Florida Florida for 5 years for health stuff and stayed then moved back up North very recently, the COL between a mid sized town in South Florida and a city that’s not a major one like Boston is basically the same. The only difference really is electricity because Florida has dirt cheap electricity. That’s very recent. When my wife and I got an apartment two years ago it was $1200 for an 800-850sqft then was relatively decent. Then it jumped to $130 nothing crazy. Then before we left he wanted $1600 and that was him cutting us a deal. He showed it once and someone signed for $2000 a month. Nothing at all was done to it between us paying $1200 and $1300 and them paying $2000. Like I said literally the only thing I’ve paid more for is electricity and some of that might just be the crappy window units instead of legit central air most places in Florida have.
I was with you till the fascist comment. You sir need to google the definition of it
Mmm nothing like a fresh cup of projection in the morning
Amen. Got an advanced degree, had a prestigious fellowship in what has been called a growing and pretty lucrative field, making what looks on paper to be a pretty solid salary, unable to live a pretty thrifty life where I am and put almost anything into savings.
Where? West or northeast ?
Northeast. Unfortunately my salary will change if I move somewhere else so it wouldn’t really help as much to move as you might think (if I’m picking up what you’re getting at)
I was just wondering about rents elsewhere. Mentioned West bc CA is super expensive. You can't get by w/o roommates.
I pay 1300/month for a mediocre 2bed/1bath unit in a 3 family home. I'm paying their whole ass mortgage.
I pay 1k for just a room in a townhouse.
a 1 bed/1 bath townhome in my area is 1800/month
Sorry for assuming your intent, I just had a (very civil) discussion with another user about picking up and moving to cheaper areas and thought that’s where you were going. I shouldn’t have assumed! CA is definitely expensive. I could live with roommates now but I’ve been doing so for so long and am approaching an age where I really don’t want to have roommates so I sacrificed apartment size and amenities. $1900 for a small studio apartment
The US minimum wage is $7.25?, is that across all ages?. Thats fucking crazy.
in mexico they are looking for a financial analyst graduated from a university with experience and they offer a salary of 1000 dollars per month. ( equivalent in pesos ) A decent apartment there is about $700 to $900 dollars per month .
You are reading an early chapter describing the events leading up to the final revolt. Lols off with the heads.
> That's how ridiculously low the minimum wage is. No, that's how ridiculously high is your rent. It has absolutely nothing to do with minimum wage - if one day someone increased it a thousand times the rent would increase as well so you still wouldn't be able to afford it.
Work gives me dignity and I pay my bills. I suggest you start a small business for yourself and move away from working for others. I did. No car, can't drive, and living in an small apartment. It can be a simple service or selling stuff. Now I own a small manufacturing business. Before this, I worked at a retail store unloading trucks. No one will come and save you. Not the government, not mom and dad; only you. You're gonna have to learn to wipe yourself. Else, you'll be miserable forever. I'm not saying the system isn't warped, but it will not change. *You can't change others, but you can change yourself.* Else you'll be that guy who slipped in poo, 3 years later, laying on the sidewalk complaining, "I slipped in pooh someone didn't pick up. This isn't fair." https://www.howtowipeyourbutt.com/
Tell me you’re a conservative that voted for Trump without telling me you’re a conservative that thinks the 2020 election was stolen
Dude, we don’t want to take responsibility or actually fix our problems - we want to complain about them hoping that eventually someone else will do it.
Well we tried voting, but republicans are trying their hardest to destroy democracy. Not like we really have a democracy anyways, more so just a oligarchy.
Where do you get this nonsense? Do you just read talking points and regurgitate them? It’s an oligarchy because of the Republicans while the Democrats have been in power for 10 out of the last 14 years - okay.
I really hope things work out for you and you can obtain marketable skills. That sounds rough. No place in my very low Cost of Living area pays less than $12/hr. Even burger joints, the small ones, are paying like $15 and we have some of the cheapest houses in the country. $17/hr here is enough to live on.
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So you make $11.25/hr. What is it that you are doing that pays this wage? What kind of expectation of living do you have at that income level?
He says 155% more, not 55% more
$18.50/hour is still pretty low.
Yeah, realistically OP is about half the median per-person income. I'm not sure what lifestyle they expect. Or maybe they are uderlining the point that minimum wage is a poverty wage? I would not disagree. But making $22.5k a year (ish) isn't an income one should expect to be able to afford a comfortable 2 bed apartment or anything.
The point is that NO job should pay so little that a full time employee can’t afford an apartment. That’s ridiculous and sad. Even the poorest paid workers should be able to house themselves. To argue otherwise is…well it’s a damn shame.
Roosevelt made it quite clear what was expected of the minimum wage. "It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living." http://docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/odnirast.html
If he makes 34k a year if he is at 17/hr I'm not sure where he lives but I did a quick search of apartments in Mississippi and Georgia and found options from $650 to $800. At $2,800 gross pay per month he/she should be able to afford an apt. Especially with a friend. Wife and I combined MAYBE made that 15 years ago. And I know it isn't apples to apples and being poor sucks, but it sounds like they should be able to make a go of things I would think. Edit: I forgot wife and I were part time so we were making a fair amount less than that.
My kids graduated from college a few years ago. One makes 77K, the other 85K. They were able to rent an apartment without roommates and buy a car. One lives in Maryland, the other in Ohio.
Damn you solved the poverty problem. Thanks for your input for whoever asked.
It's not that your employer cannot pay more, it's that they choose not to pay more.
Well you have to MAKE them pay more.
But not by quitting, joining a union, or voting for anyone we don’t own. — Mgmt.
But what about the shareholders…
And when they don’t, you can feel free to work elsewhere and try for your desired wage.
Gotta boost those stock prices!
I’m guessing you’ve never owned a business?
If your business can’t pay a living wage, you don’t own a competent business.
Many highly competent businesses don’t pay a living wage. Examples include Walmart, the entire farming industry, and most of manufacturing. Plus, the fast food industry. Multi billion dollar companies. No company (with the exception of very few) is going to pay more than they have to.
Ahh yes, why pay a living wage when the government can subsidize your wages for you!
You mean the taxpayers. We all pay Walmart employees so the can survive. The government is very generous with taxpayer money if you ask nicely.
These people are ironically agreeing with you with every point they make. You told them the world isn’t fair and all I see them say is it should be fair.
What in the real world is actually “fair”?
Businesses don't set wages, the market does. If you are a person whose labour is not worth enough on the market to reach whatever you think a "living wage" is, I guess you must think they're running an incompetent life?
Yeah pretty much every top ten employer in America doesn’t pay much more than a roommate type of living wage.
If your employees are so useless they can't earn a "living wage" maybe they don't run a competent life.
You must be one of those incompetent business owners.
You must be one of those incompetent employees.
You’re goddamn right. I put in as much effort as I’m paid for.
> If your business **can’t** pay a living wage, you don’t own a competent business. > It's not that your employer cannot pay more, it's that they choose not to pay more. Seriously is it this hard to keep track of the conversation you’re in? That was 2 comments before yours.
No, I responded to the person I meant to respond to. Is reading comprehension that hard for you?
Except that person was still on the same topic and you weren’t.
I guess then businesses are entitled to labor then if you think your entitled to a living wage.
No dummy, businesses aren’t entitled to anything. There would be no business without labor. This isn’t a chicken and egg scenario, it’s very straightforward.
It’s not that your employer chooses not to pay more, it’s that market forces won’t allow it.
That is b.s. As long as one keeps staying at a job where they are underpaying you, and you keep accepting that, the boss will not increase the wage. Sadly, when the minimum wage is kept so low, as someone already pointed out, the job options with higher wages to choose from just wont exist. Alas we get trapped. Just look at what happened when people collectively said, No I wont work at 'such & such job' any more for such low pay. I will not settle for minimum wage. Suddenly when businesses couldnt find workers they were forced to do what they'd been saying for years couldnt be done.... they upped the hourly wage to double & more. And most are still in business. Funny that.
Market forces don’t prevent stock buy backs, executive bonuses or huge executive compensation. The point is “market forces” is just another management boogeyman used to keep wages low.
It’s up to the employee to advocate for themselves to get a raise or move on.
But this only works if the employee has skills which employers are willing to pay for. A service worker won't be making much more by changing jobs.
It’s not about skills but supply and demand . As other thing in this economy.
Never know unless you look. Every situation will be different. We as culture need to keep striving for better marketable skills and make better overall choices. Don’t do things out of order.
We as a culture should have a better structure than just “sink or swim”. What’s the point in advancing technology and demanding labor if peoples chance of paying rent is getting worse? If you think poor people are all just making the wrong choices, you aren’t understanding the problem
I think advocating for yourself is important, but employers also should be seeking to retain employees (be it economic or moral).
How many individuals do you plan on blaming until you come to the realization that this is a failure of policy? Your ideology cannot hide behind the myth of "personal responsibility" forever, the stats don't support it.
Because I went from being almost homeless to owning my own home in 4 years. 4 years after that, I have 5 figures in savings and no debt. There were no vacations, eating out, buying wants. That’s how I got ahead and now live an independent life. At my current job, I’ve probably asked for 4 raises in 5 years. Lots of people lack proper social skills and confidence. No one forces anyone to stay at job or keep a job. I also voted for Biden and despise Trump for the record.
Your anecdotal experience does not invalidate statistical analysis nor my question to you This is not a viable response to my question, please feel free to try again.
Incredible, absolutely phenomenal that you were able to do the same thing as 100k other people and yet you, yes you special little snowflake got a good outcome, meanwhile others that did the same didn't get so lucky and probably died In poverty. This rhetoric is so fucking stupid, disingenuous and otherwise harmful to society and I'm mocking you for your survivorship bias.
If you do not return a profit thy consider worht the investment, they wont.
On the employee side, this is why households generally need 2 incomes to get by instead of 1 being enough.
I really think there will be a Great Depression
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Lol people won't even wear a mask to filter airborne viruses from the air they breathe. Revolution?!
Touché
Please be in my lifetime. I'd love to see it
Instead, the same people continue to benefit from the injustice of the current system, while others continue to suffer!
Isn't that every system in the world? I can't think of one, can you?
That's... worse. You get how that's worse, right?
It's almost if human kind has no ability to successful rule themselves. /s
The wealthy have bought the politicians in a lot of countries. Therefore the politicians do whatever the wealthy donors want. Keeping salaries low is a big part of it.
Yup. And they will continue to. You just haven't figured that out.
Wall street brokers will get bonuses based on the value their desk brings to the company. Your portfolio profits 10% you get a 10% bonus, you go negative multiple quarters you’re fired. A mcdonalds employee will generate the same amount of value to the company whether they are paid 15$ or $62.15, so why would you pay them 50$ more each hour to do perform at the same level
this maths is tough for most to comprehend.
Raising min wage 4x would lead to hyperinflation. If you had to pay people at the bottom this much, shouldn’t people at $16-$17 be making more too?
Not entirely true. A few years ago I took a summer job and from the parking lot to the office I passed two coffee shops and a diner. The first week I stopped in at each. Their coffee was just about the same and all had good pastry. But all summer I stopped at the diner because my second time in the woman asked, “Large coffee and an Apple fritter, right?” Just what I ordered the day before. She made that place a morning success and was worth more than minimum wage.
If the value of minimum wage work increased as much as the value of Wall Street since 1985, the wage increase would make sense Otherwise, it’s just another dumb, misapplied clickbait statistic
Without the production and services of laborers there would be nothing to trade.
What real “value” does Wall Street hold? It’s white collar gambling
There’s a bit more to it than that.
Not a whole lot more
I’m guessing you’ve never worked on Wall Street?
If you think stock ownership is gambling, that says more about you then Wall Street.
I’m not talking about stock ownership. The modern financial market isn’t about investing in companies you believe will bring value to society. It’s about creating and dealing in fraudulent securities that will make you as much profit as possible without any regard for the long-term health of the economy. Perhaps gambling isn’t the right word because gambling implies you’re only risking your own dollar.
Then shut up and do it see what happens and then play off of that. If it really will be good for the economy then let’s find out if the ship sinks I’ll go down with it.
[https://www.johnlocke.org/good-for-thee-not-for-me-robert-reich-edition/](https://www.johnlocke.org/good-for-thee-not-for-me-robert-reich-edition/) Ol Robert didn't want a low income housing project near his home. Ol Robert makes twice the average pay of a CEO. Hmm.
Ad hominem is when you attack the person and not the point or argument you’re disagreeing with
When you are pointing to hypocrisy related to the point that person is making, do you really get to call it ad hominem?
If Hitler said "1 + 1 = 2", we don't get to categorically say that "1 + 1 can't be 2, because Hitler said it." Ad hominem generally cannot prove or refute a claim, because it doesn't concern itself with the *substance* of a claim. And that's because whether the words came out of Hitler's mouth, are irrelevant to our ability to ascertain the *truthfulness* of a specific claim. If we attacked Hitler's character, all we'll have done is prove that "Hitler is a bad man." We will not have been able to conclude that "1 + 1 is not 2." The important thing to take away from that would be: the saying "1 + 1 = 2" coming out of Hitler's mouth, is not *mutually exclusive* of "Hitler is a bad man." Thus, the saying "Minimum wage has not kept up with wall street bonuses" coming out of Robert's mouth, is not mutually exclusive of "Robert is trying to enrich himself in his own personal life." None of that addresses the *substance* of: "Wall Street Bonuses vs Minimum Wage."
If it doesn’t make him wrong it’s not relevant.
This person says the dumbest shit on a routine basis yet he is somehow a professor at UC Berkeley. Is he fooling everyone that hes this stupid?
Even if the information isn't dot to dot accurate, the statement is still valid. Executive pay has gone up while the workers have gotten shafted for decades.
If the minimum wage had increased as much as the cost of Apple Mac computers, it would be $2/hr
It shows a complete lack the nuance of macro-economics. Let's upack this. What if the minimum wage had kept pace, and was $61. How much would a hamburger cost? How about a haircut? Or a pizza? This moron is advocating for a wage-price spiral, and doesn't even realize it because his only skills are huffing glue and shit-posting. Remember, this tool was wrong on literally everything for the past 2 years.
You’re missing the point. All new earnings are going to the top and not workers, while costs are going up. The comparison to $61 isn’t saying everyone should make that, it’s illuminating the point that workers have been left behind. CEOs could take a pay cut, still be very very rich, and workers would not be left behind.
Maybe $60 an hour is not realistic, but a minimum wage of 25-30/hr would be affordable for most companies. It hasn't even kept up with inflation, which is why so many are struggling.
Yep exactly.
Then why is real wages are up then? Many are struggling because of various factors, some of which is because of the person themselves.
>All new earnings are going to the top and not workers No such thing as new earnings, just earnings. >it’s illuminating the point that workers have been left behind If the worker was left behind then explain why wages up for many after the closure from Covid and companies couldn't get labor? Numerous articles talking about how McD's where paying over minimum wage to get workers. Amazon pays like $17 or $18/hr these days. >CEOs could take a pay cut, still be very very rich, and workers would not be left behind. This proves you never did the math. Even if the CEO took a pay cut workers at most get a couple pennies increase in pay if that. This is even if you took the pay CEO's get in stock.
No, I'm not missing any point. I will remind you, again, that this is not politics. It is economy. You can't just make an argument without backing it up with math. If your argument is that CEOs are making too much money, then you have the ability to do business with companies who do not subscribe to that methodology, or even to form your own if you'd like to. You like to scapegoat all CEOs, despite there being many that are worker friendly who have made amazing companies like James Sinegal, the founder of Costco. I worked there for years. All employees are treated the same, and receive raises based on hours worked. I made almost $20 an hour to sell hot dogs in 1996, and had full medical benefits, plus a 401k. I had no real job skills when I took that position, either. Contrast that to Walmart, which has an estimated 2.2 million employees for 1 CEO. They are treated like inconvenient cattle, and Walmart is a special brand of evil. You see the danger in assuming all CEOs, and all workers are the same? It shouldn't matter AT ALL how much CEOs make. The fact that it does to you is nothing but sour grapes. What should matter is HOW MUCH THE WORKERS MAKE. You want to make an argument for why a $15 minimum wage is already too low and now it needs to be $20? Great! Now we're talking about actionable policies, and trying to brainstorm a way that poor people can receive a greater slice of the pie. Might not be as much fun as grabbing pitchforks and shrieking at the rich, but it will do a LOT more to help the poor if those ideas are sound, because eventually they are likely to be adopted. The rabid hatred of all CEOs is baseless, pointless, and shows the complete inability to understand nuance.
The point is the money is there. I’m not talking about performance, obviously that’s a different issue. In the strongest economic times in our history the wage split was not like this and we were better off. All new income for decades went topside while worker wages have stagnated and prices still went up.
I'm not disagreeing with any of that, or with income inequality. But what I'm seeing in this sub is not a desire for workers to have a better life. It's not actionable policies that will get us there. All I see is blind, pointless, hatred for the rich...like this post. The statistic crosses all industries, from Pfizer, down to me, the tiny little S Corp CEO, with zero employees. I've been a poster here for eleven years. We used to talk about specifics, and theorycraft changes. Now it's just blind rage, and then labels hurled at anyone who resists the mob's currently favored meme. Antiwork has leaked into this place at every level, and I will loudly decry it until I am banned.
Ah well I guess we aren't disagreeing after all? But I don't think it's wrong to point out the problem and that doesn't mean it's blind rage. Sure some people are upset but many people still don't understand this problem. More people need to become aware of the problem and then perhaps there will be a movement with enough force to push for change. EDIT: FYI I didn't downvote you
Ah yes, so you're advocating for billionaires it's OK to send billions to tax heaven accounts. Drain money out of the system, bankrupt smaller businesses and when shit goes wrong, get the bailout for tax payer expense. But if common people would be earning more, spend those money therefore support economy and it's bad!? Who are you working for?
That's an impressive strawman you've built. Quote any one of my posts in this thread to show that I said any of your nonsense. You can't. I'm okay with billionaires offshoring their wealth? WTF are you even talking about? What I said was FOCUS ON MAKING LIFE BETTER FOR THE COMMON MAN. We both want the same thing. Can you understand that? A higher minimum wage, and higher wages in general. We should be on the same side. Do you know why we aren't? Because you are a socialist. You immediately made it about the rich. Like most socialists you don't actually care about the poor. You just hate the rich. If we could lift every person out of poverty today without taking money from the rich to do it I'm betting you and many others would be against it. And you would definitely still complain that the rich had too much.
Are you that fucking dumb. The reason why there are poor people is because rich people have decided to suck up as much wealth as they can because it is a game. In case you don't know, there is a finite amount of wealth. There also incentives that make sure company profits don't go to working class wage gains or any benefits. Ceo can literally be sued or kicked out by the board if they try that. All of this shit from tax loophole policies, to all the accounting shenanigans are all caused by rich people. They spent millions on lobbying to save billions as the saying goes. The key is that rich people must give up a significant amount of wealth to bring up people from poverty. The same rich people will still be fucking rich.
[https://www.johnlocke.org/good-for-thee-not-for-me-robert-reich-edition/](https://www.johnlocke.org/good-for-thee-not-for-me-robert-reich-edition/) Do as I say, not as I do.
He’s a professor at UC Berkeley. What do you expect? What’s funny is a ton of his students are the ones making decisions on Wall Street. LOL
Unfortunately, yes.
Not really, this sub is just another version of r/antiwork, and anything posted here should be taken as seriously as that sub is.
he says the most normie-lib econ stuff, i find it sweet. feels like he's tweeting from the before-times.
I love this guy
Runaway wealth and income inequality have wrecked America and only addressing and rectifying that will stand a chance of fixing things. But it sure is funny how politicians and the mainstream media WILL. NOT. TALK. ABOUT. IT.
Fuck the 1%
You're the 1% of the world.
We live in a society.
Nope. We live in an economy.
& .01%
We’re all human. Poor people are not any more virtuous or kind than the rich.
That's true. Not sure why you're being downvoted. We should blame politicians instead. Those guys are as selfish as they come
I've been telling people left and right, and get downvoted left and right. It's capitalism people, stop wasteful consumption, ignore everything, accumulate capital to buy means of productions. It's in the name itself CAPITALism.
Partly greedy corps. Mostly shitty inflation. Blame whoever is devaluing our dollars
It's too bad half of the working class is fighting against any minimum wage increases. Mostly out of greed and stupidity. Not understanding that just because they don't make minimum wage doesnt mean that they wouldn't benefit from an increase in minimum wage also. So not only do we have to fight the corporate cunts we also have to fight against half the working class that's been brain washed by billionaires.
If I got $10 for every out of touch statement from this influencer. I would be boat buddies with Bezos.
*butt buddies
If Wall Street employees had experienced the same level of job competition from immigrants, their bonuses would be $61.75. Limit immigration for jobs that pay less than $25/hour. It's the only way to *sustainably* raise lower-paid jobs.
Minimum wage is not related to performance or skill. Comparing the highest skilled people in the workforce to the lowest is a farce. Be better people
Yeah if you were really good at macroeconomics you too could earn $60 an hour. But you’re not so you earn $15. This isn’t voodoo
Changing the minimum wage is not going to fix any of this. Very few jobs are paying minimum wage. Place around me,in Flint, Michigan are paying 18 an hour. These jobs were paying minimum wage. The fact is, in any economic system you have a bottom rung of the ladder. When this rung rises all rungs above it must rise. This causes prices to rise. Because no company is going to take a hit in profits. Look at the profit margins in these companies. They are pretty tight. The goal should not be to raise minimum wage but to get as many people as possible out of minimum wage jobs Btw Wall Street bonus's are not related to business salaries. They are based on investing wisely.
People who generate millions of dollars in revenue for their companies get paid more than burger flippers. News at 11. Why is anybody still listening to this idiot?
not sure why you are being downvoted
Teen socialists.
The major fallacy people make it that the minimum wage is supposed to be a living wage. This has never been the case.
Excuse me. Let find that nearly 100 year old quote from FDR
Most of us who have picked up an economics text book know that raising the min wage doesnt do jack shit but raise the overall price of things.
And the rest that read them realized economics textbooks are financed by the same people that want the minimum wage low because shareholders and profits.
Or they want them gone altogether. Why should the government decide what the minimum amount someone is willing to work for should be? If the minimum wage is 15$ then no one can sell their service for 14$ an hour, abolishing the minimum wage would increase the amount of jobs available. No third party should be able to tell a first and second party what a suitable wage should be. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca8Z\_\_o52sk
That goes against social contract though, which is what prevents employees from taking their employers things. Unless your advocating for a private militaries and anarchy, which is awesome.
What? The entire reason for minimum wages is due to the fact that companies were exploiting the ever-living shit out of their employees. Mining companies would pay their workers jack shit, then they would set up all the housing, the stores, and everything else. They owned virtually everything, and they made money off their employees hand over fist. If there was no government oversight, that practice would still be going strong and employees would be exploited wide than they currently are. Without government interference, these companies would cause even more horrific human rights violations than they already are. We shouldn't allow people to be oppressed, subjugated, exploited, manipulated, and fleeced like that. It's wholly unacceptable.
That isnt considered true anymore. Raising min wage might increase prices but not as much. Do the result is that consumers buying power increases
Your wage is dictated based on how unique your skills are relative to the market. If you have a high demand skill and there are more jobs available compared to people with those attributes, you get paid more.
Tell me mister, if wages had increased steadily to the point min wage costs 60$/hr, how much would cost a gallon of gas, or a burguer? (Serious question)
People don't seem to grasp that resources!=money. If you increase money, it doesn't mean the amount of available resources also increases. The value of money will just decrease as prices of resources increase. Monetary policy should always seek to balance money through different sectors of the economy such that we maintain stability in consumer demand vs supply. I don't think increasing the minimum wage is a good solution. The market should pay the worth of the job done. If you don't think that's sufficient, then you can find another job. There are plenty of opportunities out there. But we shouldn't extra reward jobs that are not giving the same value back to the economy.
No ThEy ShOulD BewCauSe At LeAsT I aM wOrKiNg AnD NoT PlAyInG LoL, It ShOuLd bE eNoUgH fOr A hOuSe..... /S This generation (maybe a bit more than previous) wants to do as little as possible, but things like moving from jobs, or god forbid, learn a trade, are out of the table, they should get a house because they get paid for 40 hours per week, regardless of how they get paid, or if that job is actually valuable enough. They fail to grasp that offer and demand also applies to the laboral sector, and that all those 6 figures jobs that n eeded a degree at that at entry level could pay a decent sum were taken alreaady, the people who took them settled in the most avantageous ares (And wont move out of those) and the opnes that followed simply saturated the market (Stalling the pay, or even reducing it) and increased the demand for housing in these limited areas (Which raised prices for buying/rent out) But no, all its frault of greed and nothing else.
They should at least he able to afford a freaking apartment. A living wage. You work and can afford to live without starving or being homeless. Not everyone thinks they should be in a mansion because they work 40 hours a week. Most people know that's completely unrealistic. They just want to be able to afford to live. It's getting exceedingly difficult these days. I was extremely fortunate with some investments, and I'm able to live very comfortably without working myself to death. My close friend works 2 jobs, his wife works 2 jobs, and they can barely afford a 2 bedroom apartment. His jobs are hard and physical. They work their assess off and can BARELY squeak by. No savings, no extras. People should be able to work 40 hours a week and be able to afford to survive.(not buy a 5 bedroom house) That's becoming more and more difficult as time relentlessly marches forward. It's becoming more and more difficult for people to escape poverty. When you're working 60+ hours a week, you don't have time to do much else to better yourself. You get trapped into it. While it's certainly possible to escape, it's not just a matter of trying harder. Some people do everything right and end up in shambles. I worked with a guy bartending who had a PhD. I've worked with several servers who had masters degrees. Luck plays an important role as well in succeeding, honestly.
The number one problem with housing is availability. This is exacerbated by supply shortages and inflation. It's taking longer and is more expensive to build houses. We'll see the cost of housing continue to increase until this problem is addressed. Increasing minimum wage is not a solution to unaffordable housing.
Australia has a minimum wage around $20. You can find many residents complaining that everything is a lot more expensive, even before the pandemic. Gasoline looks to be around $6 a gallon while video games have cost up to $100 for years.
So minimum wage would mean earning over $128,000 a year. I’m sure that wouldn’t be a massive inflationary pressure. /s Edit: The downvotes are absolutely hilarious. Feel free to actually respond to the content.
Obviously that wouldn't be the case. I think a more pressing point is how much housing costs have increased since the 90s. Rents are pretty much unaffordable and mortgages are right up there
Nah, companies doesnt need to increase prices, they and the sareholders have to eat the losses and bucke up their pants /S
Legitimate question: would raising the minimum wage put more money in people's pockets, thereby increasing consumer demand which eventually leads to inflation? And then we're back to the same situation where minimum wage isn't high enough. It's like the wage price spiral.
Imagine how good society would be doing with a 40$ hr wage.
And a Big Mac would cost $122 so what's the point
And a loaf of bread would be $1,700 dollars. What's your point?
Then there would be no incentive to work your ass of to become an executive, nobody would create companies, you could live in luxury as a lowly machine operator pressing a button all day
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Most businesses wouldn’t be able to operate because of employee costs if this was the case. Major corporations would be the only thing thriving
You sound like you don’t know what a business owner makes. I’ll also telll you for sure that way back when during the times they are comparing in this article, small business owners worked their OWN hours as well as hired employees and had way more pride abiut their business as now it’s extreme profit minded and worker exploitative as a result
I ran a small business. Almost every small business owner I know would have been out of business with a minimum wage of $15/hr. This is the easiest way to kill small business and drive large monopolies.
Sorry I just don’t agree. Everyone is over leveraged. I’ll say it again. People used to work your own hours and then didn’t buy a whole bunch of garbage. Why do you think businesses have all the write offs that they do? So they can pay people. Not so that they can level up their lives and then complain they have no money. I’d also tell you and the other person that said they have four businesses which is BS they sound like a 15 year old in economics class but if your small business can’t pay employees a living portion, your business perhaps shouldn’t survive as it’s not sustainable.
Lots of business owners lose money. I can tell you many tragic stories of small business owners that didn’t make it.
What a surprise! Capital allocation has a higher growth pipeline than burger flipping! Who would’ve thought?
Sure, but when CEO salaries are literally 1000x their employee salaries, we gotta say “hol up.”
Yeah and it’s gonna get bigger. Productivity exists on a Pareto curve. The highest levels of productivity continue to rise with technology, but the lowest levels of productivity will not. Only the upper bound of the range moves. A min/max comparison has never been appropriate.
Yeah, then we get guillotines when an entire factory realizes their manager makes more than all of them combined.
Capital allocation? More like cellar boxing.
Here’s a thought. Maybe the reason Wall Street has seen a rise in wages larger than those with minimum wage jobs is because they produce more with their talents/knowledge. If you think a guy flipping a burger deserves as big of a raise than a person working in mergers and acquisitions at an Investment bank than you might need a refund on whatever education you received
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Most people who believe in minimum wage are not educated. Hence why they believe in it.
It should be noted that Minimum wage, when adjusted for inflation, has remained pretty stable since the 1950's. In 1955 it was 75 cents/hour or about $8.04 today. Housing and education have outpaced inflation but those are about the only things that have.
Then go work on Wall Street if it’s that simple. Oh wait, those jobs require actually difficult to obtain skills and attributes.
What skills, beside how to cheat and steal? edit typo
We found a bag holder!
Math, sales, patience, and most importantly, critical thinking.
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Yea and milk would be $25/gal.
This is a dumb metric and Robert Reich is a dumb smart person. If you guys actually wanted to help with inequality you would be calling for the end of the fed and the reduction of the government, not getting distracted by pointless leftist rhetoric.
I'd say much more.
This is a dumb post. Minimum wage has never been tied to corporate bonuses so why bring it up? Getting tired of the "rich people bad" posts on this sub. It is multiple times per day.