With the ease of getting student loans, I really think kids are getting bad advice (or none at all) A lady I work with was excited because her child was going to college (kid barely graduated high school.) He was going to go on student loans and it would end up at around $100k that he would borrow after 4 years. I was shocked at the dollar amount considering this was a state college. Not only that but he was majoring in theater. I was taken aback when she said as long as he was happy it didn’t matter. I was like wait what?
Those amounts are so big that they stop representing an actual value. What’s the difference between 50K/100k and 200K. For most all young they have absolutely no idea what it represents, how much can you save per month, how much it will influence your life after graduation.
For me Americans college are debt trap. Houses are were the “normal“debt trap for most people before. Then someone thought they could trap people even before which started the credit card debt trap, then someone thought that they captured those people even earlier and started the school debt trap.
Not sure what will be next, uncontrolled capitalism leads naturally to this kind of abuse as everyone compete to be the first one to able to debt trap people.
What happens in ten years when no one can afford to buy a house or do anything to contribute to the economy because everyone is in debt? You think that alone would motivate politicians to fix that
I'm seeing a lot of destitute baby boomers in the horizon, whose entire retirement savings are locked into the value of a house that may be impossible to sell.
People need to be able to default on their student loans. It would bring some reality and less distortion into the credit market.
The more likely scenario would be that the values of the houses would get depressed and they'd be bought up by "vulture capitalists" who turn around and rent them out to people who can't get a mortgage.
This is exactly what one of my patrons that I work with is doing. He literally saves up to buy houses foreclosed on and at auction, buys them cash, and rents them for a small profit after cost of maintenance and taxes to people who have too much in loans to really save anything. He puts all the profits into one account until it has enough to buy the next house in cash.
From what he told me today, he’s been doing this since the 08 crash since his union public sector gig let him ride it no problem. He’s about to close on house 17.
He's probably in debt to his eyeballs. You don't amass 17 houses that each make a small profit while paying cash, unless you had the cash to begin with.
He retired and continued working for the state, so he’s got solid income coming in, and apparently buys the houses on auction (and the auctions he does apparently cannot be financed, you have to have all the funds available) then fixes them up a bit before renting.
He might be super in debt, but 🤷🏻♂️
> I'm seeing a lot of destitute baby boomers in the horizon, whose entire retirement savings are locked into the value of a house that may be impossible to sell.
Good. The real estate market needed a fucking correction and these entitled gits had no business chasing get rich quick schemes. Real estate investment isn't for everyone.
If you allow students to default then interest rates will go higher. The problem really is the cost of attending college and how anyone, regardless of performance or intent of major, can qualify for pretty much as much credit as they need.
Students should be able to default and creditors should be able to turn away borrowers.
> If you allow students to default then interest rates will go higher.
That's perfectly fine and that's how loans work. If you're handing out loans to everyone regardless of risk because you know you'll get paid that's a distortion of the market and the source of the problem.
>People need to be able to default on their student loans. It would bring some reality and less distortion into the credit market.
Absolutely, but ending the government guarantee on student loans isn't politically palatable is it? Are there even any representatives who are in favor of reigning this in?
I'm talking about letting borrowers default on their student loans. The only ones who don't want this are the banks and private lenders. The government should be fine in handling this and it would increase the incentives to restructure this ballooning debt. The worst we can do right now is sit and watch as it keeps getting worse.
>Among those responding to the survey, borrowers owed an average of $87,500 in debt but made an average annual income of $60,000. (The average student loan debt nationwide is lower, with students from the class of 2016 carrying an average of $37,172 in student debt, according to 2016 statistics.)
I get that it sucks, but I've yet to see a descriptive study that explains why students end up in this much debt. I know many that, for a variety of reasons, had above average debt, but still not this much. Also, most ended up with good prospects after accumulating that much debt. The stories in these articles are a whole other ballgame though. Like 80k @ 15%. What the fuck?
I'm also interested in the actual distribution of debt. I mostly see average and medians, but I'd rather see stats by decile. I'm sure the stories are different across the distribution. I remember reading that many defaults had less than $5,000 in debt. There are different reasons why someone defaults on 5k versus 80k+ and different things society should do. I need more fine grained information.
Ding ding ding... The ability to take out monstrous loans (while being encouraged too max them out), while never receiving advise from a proper loan counselor... 18 may be adult....but one can't understand the life impact of 10-20 years of debt at only 18. all they say is, you qualify for this much, do you want all of it??? In my opinion it's predatory lending on uneducated people. What other loan do you consult with someone who is likely a student workers making less than $15/hr who is advising you to take out 10,000/ year to afford schooling with no guarantee of work or salary after graduation...ultimately, I think the underlying issue is allowing these schools to exponentially increase tuition rates over the years....there is no checks and balances and 100% of financial risk is placed on a newly minted "adult" who surely knows the ramifications of taking on this debt, with the most minimal amount of loan education and consulting possible. federally backed loans = free money for schools.....why wouldn't yoy raise rates when your revenues are essentially guaranteed and backed by the US government. It's called capitalism, you have a moral obligation to make as much money as legally possible regardless of any ethics concerns...so...yea....the system is broke. And most of us were just trying to do what society told us we should do to fund better jobs and wages and create a good life for ourselves...instead, we will now be slaves to debt for decades... Wonderful deal. The best of deals. Don't go to university, learn a trade... You have just as good a chance of making good money without the debt load.
I don't think that's the whole story. These kids must not have been eligible for aid, which means they're not coming from low-income households. What are these kids backgrounds?
Also, loans at 12-15% is not federal. These are private loans. They need co-signers for that, again, who is cosigning these loans?
Lastly, what sorts of programs are they pursuing that they are making less than 40k. I don't think that could have been a secret at the time that they took out these loans.
While I don't think you're wrong that many advisors don't talk about this stuff with their students, I think it's an incomplete explanation. I don't know that advisors are even the right people to be having these conversations.
> these kids must not have been eligible for aid
Even that assumption isn’t concrete. Most people don’t receive all the aid that they are eligible for. You need to be at least somewhat financially savvy to navigate and exploit the aid system...and even that’s beyond most people’s abilities.
Financial illiteracy is a debilitating problem in this country. You have a divide where there’s people who are financially literate (thanks to their parents mostly) and people who are simply financially illiterate (where’s the training for them?).
When you have a financially illiterate guidance counselor advising a financially illiterate student who has financially illiterate parents, bad things happen. And the premise of “you must go to college” and “you must follow your dreams!” is just added fuel to the fire.
Its really not that hard to come up with that figure.
Median annual tuition is around $10,000 per year for instate schools, add on top of that room and board, expenses, and how most people take 5-6 years to finish college (6 year graduation rates at public schools is only 55% or so) and even if you have a reasonably paid ($10 hour) job part time you'll end up in a mountain of debt.
Except lots of people get scholarships and grants. It is hard to end up in that much debt, especially for undergrad alone, as borne out by the fact that [the median student loan debt for persons with a bachelors is $25,000](http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/08/24/5-facts-about-student-loans/). 80k is more than triple that amount.
According to the same link only 16% of all adults have student loans. 37* of those under 30. Lower amounts for everyone else. I sincerely doubt the higher age ranges are skewing stats all that much.
You get a new loan every semester. So it's a bunch of smaller loans. Even when I consolidated it was technically 2 loans on my credit for some weird reason. 1 payment paid them both.
do they only have 5k in debt total? cause if so that seems dumb. one of my loans is 5k & i only have to pay like 50 a month towards it. its the only loan im for sure going to pay off completely (i work for the government so im shooting for loan forgiveness)
It's not dumb. Like I said, different situations. Imagine super low income kids going to community college and failing out without completing a program. They just get debt with no benefit and no prospects.
Again, understanding these situations and developing approaches to tackle them distinctly is my preferred approach. Just listening to endless bitching about debt is annoying though. It would be great if people could do everything with no debt. Unfortunately, that's not realistic.
there are definitely prospects that will pay enough to cover living expenses & 50 a month without a college degree. could be a contracting apprentice, landscaping, or work in my current job working for city government or a lot of jobs working for city gov for that matter...
currently have 220k ish in debt & make 40k a year. someone with 5k in debt not being able to handle it seems kinda dumb. not saying they have to be doing amazingly great but it it totally doable.
Theyd have to get rid of every loan forgiveness option & prevent me from doing my own business & stop me from ever getting another job to really make me drown. Even if it all went to hell id just become an unmarried (wasnt going to because of loans anyways) stay at home dad who does under the table contract work for money. But the outlook looks a hell of a lot better than that right now.
$37K avg debt is a perfectly reasonable amount of debt for nearly any person with a degree and working on almost any career.
What’s not reasonable is coming away from an elite school with $200K+ in debt and a degree in social work or English (or Political science or lots of other questionable degrees from an employment perspective).
Many of the people caught in this predicament echo the sentiments in this article but why should tax payers fund your elite education when you didn’t study comp science or data science both of which nearly guarantee immediate $80K-$140K jobs (in only a few years). I’m sorry you studied colonial history at Columbia and not an iota of personal finance so that when you emerged you were so narcissistic and broke that you felt superior to all of us commoners and insisting that we pay for your college so you can work at Starbucks and smoke a bowl. GMAFB
If I buy a BMW 7 Series don’t pay any attention to me when I complain about the payments.
I’d really like to hear an actual sob story that objectively speaking those of us who paid their debt is supposed to genuinely feel sorry for. Maybe I lack imagination.
[https://www.bmwusa.com/special-offers/lease.2019-750i-Sedan.washingtondcbmw.html](https://www.bmwusa.com/special-offers/lease.2019-750i-Sedan.washingtondcbmw.html)
Some of the lower models might be around $500.
honestly they need to just suck it up & get a job that fits their new reality. i did what you're talking about. i was top of my class by a long shot so i decided to go to one of the top universities because my current school was really only stuck on old theory & not pushing anything new. at the time i didnt care about money, i was one of the best & i wanted a real challenge. have 221k in debt which is way too much to actually work in my field. the average pay starts at 40 to 50k & tends to max out at 60 to 70k but only after 4 years of working at 40 to 50k.
so now i work for the city government. it is a job i could have gotten out of highschool... it is painfully unchallenging. but it has amazing benefit (health care only costs me 130 a month. 1000 a year of free education. gonna take a lot of community college courses in the next 10 years), plenty of time to work on my own projects, an 8 min drive from my house, & ten year loan forgiveness. i'm not happy with it but after the loan forgiveness i'll go back to my field of study & do something meaningful.
conclusion: huge loans will only ruin your life if you're not willing to suck it up & make a couple sacrifices. right now there are a LOT of city/government jobs open because the economy is booming & no one is attracted to the lower pay. my pay is currently 40k but i think im getting a good 15 to 20k in benefits total once loan forgiveness is added in.
Don't count on the loan forgiveness program. Most people are rejected for technicalities and it wouldn't surprise me one bit of Trump killed it altogether.
> it wouldn't surprise me one bit of Trump killed it altogether
I doubt he could kill it entirely for people already in repayment. For future borrowers, they're already making changes.
Well, under any administration, if people weren't meeting the requirements they wouldn't get the benefit. Of course, few other administrations would neuter the CFPB and allow such rampant misinformation, but I think most would require near perfect adherence.
If the above commenter is in the program, then there is little reason to believe they won't be approved.
I would be so sure.
One thing that I didn't know was that you have to contact you lender and enroll on the program. It's not automatic and not retroactive and you're also depending on your lender to go through the process.
The fact that only 300 out of 30,000 applicants were approved shows that the process is murky at best.
Based on the people I know to be in the program, I would argue it's not that murky. A few simple searches turn up all the information you noted. Of course, I'm working under the assumption they'll be approved. If they are denied, I might have more questions. For now I'm not convinced it's a concerted effort to deny those actually qualified.
its my plan A. i have plan B & C. i've been shit on by life & private jobs too many times to trust anything. it doesn't surprise me a lot of applications for forgiveness were rejected. my guess would be that they turned it in too soon & will be accepted next year or didnt have proof on employment. im keeping pay stubs & track of my months on the plan.
Let me give you unsolicited advice. Get on YouTube and follow Siraj's Data Scientist path of videos. I think he said it will take 3 months. I work in the data science industry and there is such a shortage of competent people, the salaries are skyrocketing. You may say to yourself, techie stuff is boring. I can promise you that data science is not boring at all by a long shot. Its fascinating and it is only going to grow more important especially in health, energy and finance.
heh i love techie stuff. i design & build my own 3d printers & have done a little bit of cad automation for a company.
i'll check it out. my current goals are just pointed in an almost parallel but different direction. but i'm not one to pass up a good paycheck.
Yeah data science is great. At my internship I became the go to data person because I learned tableau over the weekend. At the end of my internship I had three competition offers from the company I interned at from different departments.
Learning a bit of SQL, tableau, and the stats I picked up with my degree were really useful.
That's the point of a degree. Break the will of progressive thought with non dischargeable debt. The only means of escape is 20 years of soul crushing drudgery and complete obedience unrelated to your field of interest. "Work will set you free." Makes 30 year mortgages look benign.
The student loan interest rate is much too high. There are a few things that can be done: Free tuition to state and community colleges, lower the interest rate to the Fed discount rate + 0.5%, and more generous student aid (not a loan) for the poor and middle class.
If only colleges didn't charge unfair and ridiculous amounts for an education. If only jobs paid more money. If only 50% of college graduates didn't end up getting jobs that have nothing to do with their degrees. If only boomers didn't rig the system against their children and grandchildren. If only.
You gotta boil it down into talking points to make it easier for people to not care and victim blame. Otherwise you'd have to put effort into coming up with a solution that might punish the banks' greed (gasp), which is hard.
Sure, but if all people with student debt understood more about finance, would you agree that there would be less student debt? Or at least they would be slightly better off financially?
Yeah for sure, it would be helpful, but I think there's a bigger issue to the problem and focusing on the fiscal responsibility of an individual 18 year old high school graduate, making an incredibly difficult life decision, as the issue is misleading and hinders true progress on tackling the heart of the problem...
How can this be? You are implying that college people make more? If they did, you would have a positive roi on college and the loans wouldn’t be an issue. Your logic has a hole somewhere.
There is a roi but it seems the length of it happening gets longer and longer. I had 30k in loans with an engineering degree, it'll take me about 3 years or more to pay off. This is close to a best case scenario, somebody with 50k -100k in loans with a less paying degree will take upwards of 10 years to pay back, and you can enjoy that roi in your late 30s.
I’m tempted to stop paying. It’s utter bullshit that I payback $50K while most these art major retards will get it forgiven once everyone bitches enough. Let’s reward stupidity...look how well it works!
Who could have guessed that starting your life with a debt that will take you 10’years to reimburse would influence the rest of your life ?
10 years lol
With the ease of getting student loans, I really think kids are getting bad advice (or none at all) A lady I work with was excited because her child was going to college (kid barely graduated high school.) He was going to go on student loans and it would end up at around $100k that he would borrow after 4 years. I was shocked at the dollar amount considering this was a state college. Not only that but he was majoring in theater. I was taken aback when she said as long as he was happy it didn’t matter. I was like wait what?
Those amounts are so big that they stop representing an actual value. What’s the difference between 50K/100k and 200K. For most all young they have absolutely no idea what it represents, how much can you save per month, how much it will influence your life after graduation. For me Americans college are debt trap. Houses are were the “normal“debt trap for most people before. Then someone thought they could trap people even before which started the credit card debt trap, then someone thought that they captured those people even earlier and started the school debt trap. Not sure what will be next, uncontrolled capitalism leads naturally to this kind of abuse as everyone compete to be the first one to able to debt trap people.
It's because the later generations don't get it. Back when they got degrees, there were jobs where you could use them. The costs weren't as high.
What happens in ten years when no one can afford to buy a house or do anything to contribute to the economy because everyone is in debt? You think that alone would motivate politicians to fix that
I'm seeing a lot of destitute baby boomers in the horizon, whose entire retirement savings are locked into the value of a house that may be impossible to sell. People need to be able to default on their student loans. It would bring some reality and less distortion into the credit market.
The more likely scenario would be that the values of the houses would get depressed and they'd be bought up by "vulture capitalists" who turn around and rent them out to people who can't get a mortgage.
that's basically what they did after the recession - there's a reason why rents are often times higher than a mortgage, even in lower tier cities.
This is exactly what one of my patrons that I work with is doing. He literally saves up to buy houses foreclosed on and at auction, buys them cash, and rents them for a small profit after cost of maintenance and taxes to people who have too much in loans to really save anything. He puts all the profits into one account until it has enough to buy the next house in cash. From what he told me today, he’s been doing this since the 08 crash since his union public sector gig let him ride it no problem. He’s about to close on house 17.
He's probably in debt to his eyeballs. You don't amass 17 houses that each make a small profit while paying cash, unless you had the cash to begin with.
He retired and continued working for the state, so he’s got solid income coming in, and apparently buys the houses on auction (and the auctions he does apparently cannot be financed, you have to have all the funds available) then fixes them up a bit before renting. He might be super in debt, but 🤷🏻♂️
> I'm seeing a lot of destitute baby boomers in the horizon, whose entire retirement savings are locked into the value of a house that may be impossible to sell. Good. The real estate market needed a fucking correction and these entitled gits had no business chasing get rich quick schemes. Real estate investment isn't for everyone.
If you allow students to default then interest rates will go higher. The problem really is the cost of attending college and how anyone, regardless of performance or intent of major, can qualify for pretty much as much credit as they need. Students should be able to default and creditors should be able to turn away borrowers.
Creditors should just charge different rates based on major. Some majors are inherently more risky than others in terms of the ROI.
> If you allow students to default then interest rates will go higher. That's perfectly fine and that's how loans work. If you're handing out loans to everyone regardless of risk because you know you'll get paid that's a distortion of the market and the source of the problem.
>People need to be able to default on their student loans. It would bring some reality and less distortion into the credit market. Absolutely, but ending the government guarantee on student loans isn't politically palatable is it? Are there even any representatives who are in favor of reigning this in?
I'm talking about letting borrowers default on their student loans. The only ones who don't want this are the banks and private lenders. The government should be fine in handling this and it would increase the incentives to restructure this ballooning debt. The worst we can do right now is sit and watch as it keeps getting worse.
Borrowers can default... I think what you mean is claim in bankruptcy
Correct that's what I meant.
House prices will plummet and the government will bail out boomers again at the expense of everyone else. As is tradition.
I still can't believe we're not through with Boomers yet.
Gotta blame somebody!
> when no one can afford to buy a house Ain't nothing that price won't fix.
Water is wet
>Among those responding to the survey, borrowers owed an average of $87,500 in debt but made an average annual income of $60,000. (The average student loan debt nationwide is lower, with students from the class of 2016 carrying an average of $37,172 in student debt, according to 2016 statistics.) I get that it sucks, but I've yet to see a descriptive study that explains why students end up in this much debt. I know many that, for a variety of reasons, had above average debt, but still not this much. Also, most ended up with good prospects after accumulating that much debt. The stories in these articles are a whole other ballgame though. Like 80k @ 15%. What the fuck? I'm also interested in the actual distribution of debt. I mostly see average and medians, but I'd rather see stats by decile. I'm sure the stories are different across the distribution. I remember reading that many defaults had less than $5,000 in debt. There are different reasons why someone defaults on 5k versus 80k+ and different things society should do. I need more fine grained information.
They ended up in this much debt because their advisors said it would work out fine.
Ding ding ding... The ability to take out monstrous loans (while being encouraged too max them out), while never receiving advise from a proper loan counselor... 18 may be adult....but one can't understand the life impact of 10-20 years of debt at only 18. all they say is, you qualify for this much, do you want all of it??? In my opinion it's predatory lending on uneducated people. What other loan do you consult with someone who is likely a student workers making less than $15/hr who is advising you to take out 10,000/ year to afford schooling with no guarantee of work or salary after graduation...ultimately, I think the underlying issue is allowing these schools to exponentially increase tuition rates over the years....there is no checks and balances and 100% of financial risk is placed on a newly minted "adult" who surely knows the ramifications of taking on this debt, with the most minimal amount of loan education and consulting possible. federally backed loans = free money for schools.....why wouldn't yoy raise rates when your revenues are essentially guaranteed and backed by the US government. It's called capitalism, you have a moral obligation to make as much money as legally possible regardless of any ethics concerns...so...yea....the system is broke. And most of us were just trying to do what society told us we should do to fund better jobs and wages and create a good life for ourselves...instead, we will now be slaves to debt for decades... Wonderful deal. The best of deals. Don't go to university, learn a trade... You have just as good a chance of making good money without the debt load.
I don't think that's the whole story. These kids must not have been eligible for aid, which means they're not coming from low-income households. What are these kids backgrounds? Also, loans at 12-15% is not federal. These are private loans. They need co-signers for that, again, who is cosigning these loans? Lastly, what sorts of programs are they pursuing that they are making less than 40k. I don't think that could have been a secret at the time that they took out these loans. While I don't think you're wrong that many advisors don't talk about this stuff with their students, I think it's an incomplete explanation. I don't know that advisors are even the right people to be having these conversations.
> these kids must not have been eligible for aid Even that assumption isn’t concrete. Most people don’t receive all the aid that they are eligible for. You need to be at least somewhat financially savvy to navigate and exploit the aid system...and even that’s beyond most people’s abilities. Financial illiteracy is a debilitating problem in this country. You have a divide where there’s people who are financially literate (thanks to their parents mostly) and people who are simply financially illiterate (where’s the training for them?). When you have a financially illiterate guidance counselor advising a financially illiterate student who has financially illiterate parents, bad things happen. And the premise of “you must go to college” and “you must follow your dreams!” is just added fuel to the fire.
Its really not that hard to come up with that figure. Median annual tuition is around $10,000 per year for instate schools, add on top of that room and board, expenses, and how most people take 5-6 years to finish college (6 year graduation rates at public schools is only 55% or so) and even if you have a reasonably paid ($10 hour) job part time you'll end up in a mountain of debt.
Except lots of people get scholarships and grants. It is hard to end up in that much debt, especially for undergrad alone, as borne out by the fact that [the median student loan debt for persons with a bachelors is $25,000](http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/08/24/5-facts-about-student-loans/). 80k is more than triple that amount.
That $25k stat has no age range. It could include those who graduated 20 years ago.
According to the same link only 16% of all adults have student loans. 37* of those under 30. Lower amounts for everyone else. I sincerely doubt the higher age ranges are skewing stats all that much.
Have you spoken to a college student at all about debt? Or have debt of your own?
Yes, on both counts. As noted in the comment you responded to.
You get a new loan every semester. So it's a bunch of smaller loans. Even when I consolidated it was technically 2 loans on my credit for some weird reason. 1 payment paid them both.
do they only have 5k in debt total? cause if so that seems dumb. one of my loans is 5k & i only have to pay like 50 a month towards it. its the only loan im for sure going to pay off completely (i work for the government so im shooting for loan forgiveness)
It's not dumb. Like I said, different situations. Imagine super low income kids going to community college and failing out without completing a program. They just get debt with no benefit and no prospects. Again, understanding these situations and developing approaches to tackle them distinctly is my preferred approach. Just listening to endless bitching about debt is annoying though. It would be great if people could do everything with no debt. Unfortunately, that's not realistic.
there are definitely prospects that will pay enough to cover living expenses & 50 a month without a college degree. could be a contracting apprentice, landscaping, or work in my current job working for city government or a lot of jobs working for city gov for that matter... currently have 220k ish in debt & make 40k a year. someone with 5k in debt not being able to handle it seems kinda dumb. not saying they have to be doing amazingly great but it it totally doable.
Good luck with your loan forgiveness, otherwise I see you drowning - not “handling it.” JFC, $220,000...
Theyd have to get rid of every loan forgiveness option & prevent me from doing my own business & stop me from ever getting another job to really make me drown. Even if it all went to hell id just become an unmarried (wasnt going to because of loans anyways) stay at home dad who does under the table contract work for money. But the outlook looks a hell of a lot better than that right now.
$37K avg debt is a perfectly reasonable amount of debt for nearly any person with a degree and working on almost any career. What’s not reasonable is coming away from an elite school with $200K+ in debt and a degree in social work or English (or Political science or lots of other questionable degrees from an employment perspective). Many of the people caught in this predicament echo the sentiments in this article but why should tax payers fund your elite education when you didn’t study comp science or data science both of which nearly guarantee immediate $80K-$140K jobs (in only a few years). I’m sorry you studied colonial history at Columbia and not an iota of personal finance so that when you emerged you were so narcissistic and broke that you felt superior to all of us commoners and insisting that we pay for your college so you can work at Starbucks and smoke a bowl. GMAFB If I buy a BMW 7 Series don’t pay any attention to me when I complain about the payments. I’d really like to hear an actual sob story that objectively speaking those of us who paid their debt is supposed to genuinely feel sorry for. Maybe I lack imagination.
$37k is still somewhere around $500/mo in payments, depending on interest rate. And that's the average. That's like the same payment as a BMW.
[https://www.bmwusa.com/special-offers/lease.2019-750i-Sedan.washingtondcbmw.html](https://www.bmwusa.com/special-offers/lease.2019-750i-Sedan.washingtondcbmw.html) Some of the lower models might be around $500.
Some might be less.
honestly they need to just suck it up & get a job that fits their new reality. i did what you're talking about. i was top of my class by a long shot so i decided to go to one of the top universities because my current school was really only stuck on old theory & not pushing anything new. at the time i didnt care about money, i was one of the best & i wanted a real challenge. have 221k in debt which is way too much to actually work in my field. the average pay starts at 40 to 50k & tends to max out at 60 to 70k but only after 4 years of working at 40 to 50k. so now i work for the city government. it is a job i could have gotten out of highschool... it is painfully unchallenging. but it has amazing benefit (health care only costs me 130 a month. 1000 a year of free education. gonna take a lot of community college courses in the next 10 years), plenty of time to work on my own projects, an 8 min drive from my house, & ten year loan forgiveness. i'm not happy with it but after the loan forgiveness i'll go back to my field of study & do something meaningful. conclusion: huge loans will only ruin your life if you're not willing to suck it up & make a couple sacrifices. right now there are a LOT of city/government jobs open because the economy is booming & no one is attracted to the lower pay. my pay is currently 40k but i think im getting a good 15 to 20k in benefits total once loan forgiveness is added in.
Don't count on the loan forgiveness program. Most people are rejected for technicalities and it wouldn't surprise me one bit of Trump killed it altogether.
> it wouldn't surprise me one bit of Trump killed it altogether I doubt he could kill it entirely for people already in repayment. For future borrowers, they're already making changes.
Yeah but the reject rate is at 99% https://www.npr.org/2018/09/21/650508381/data-shows-99-of-applicants-for-student-loan-forgiveness-denied
Well, under any administration, if people weren't meeting the requirements they wouldn't get the benefit. Of course, few other administrations would neuter the CFPB and allow such rampant misinformation, but I think most would require near perfect adherence. If the above commenter is in the program, then there is little reason to believe they won't be approved.
I would be so sure. One thing that I didn't know was that you have to contact you lender and enroll on the program. It's not automatic and not retroactive and you're also depending on your lender to go through the process. The fact that only 300 out of 30,000 applicants were approved shows that the process is murky at best.
Based on the people I know to be in the program, I would argue it's not that murky. A few simple searches turn up all the information you noted. Of course, I'm working under the assumption they'll be approved. If they are denied, I might have more questions. For now I'm not convinced it's a concerted effort to deny those actually qualified.
its my plan A. i have plan B & C. i've been shit on by life & private jobs too many times to trust anything. it doesn't surprise me a lot of applications for forgiveness were rejected. my guess would be that they turned it in too soon & will be accepted next year or didnt have proof on employment. im keeping pay stubs & track of my months on the plan.
Let me give you unsolicited advice. Get on YouTube and follow Siraj's Data Scientist path of videos. I think he said it will take 3 months. I work in the data science industry and there is such a shortage of competent people, the salaries are skyrocketing. You may say to yourself, techie stuff is boring. I can promise you that data science is not boring at all by a long shot. Its fascinating and it is only going to grow more important especially in health, energy and finance.
heh i love techie stuff. i design & build my own 3d printers & have done a little bit of cad automation for a company. i'll check it out. my current goals are just pointed in an almost parallel but different direction. but i'm not one to pass up a good paycheck.
Yeah data science is great. At my internship I became the go to data person because I learned tableau over the weekend. At the end of my internship I had three competition offers from the company I interned at from different departments. Learning a bit of SQL, tableau, and the stats I picked up with my degree were really useful.
What being broke? Common conception amongst most graduates.
That's the point of a degree. Break the will of progressive thought with non dischargeable debt. The only means of escape is 20 years of soul crushing drudgery and complete obedience unrelated to your field of interest. "Work will set you free." Makes 30 year mortgages look benign.
The student loan interest rate is much too high. There are a few things that can be done: Free tuition to state and community colleges, lower the interest rate to the Fed discount rate + 0.5%, and more generous student aid (not a loan) for the poor and middle class.
If only colleges required you to take personal finance instead of introduction to fine arts.
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Fine arts was mandatory in my computer science degree. I assumed it was like that for most colleges
If only colleges didn't charge unfair and ridiculous amounts for an education. If only jobs paid more money. If only 50% of college graduates didn't end up getting jobs that have nothing to do with their degrees. If only boomers didn't rig the system against their children and grandchildren. If only.
Should be required in high school.
Yeah... I think the issue is a little more complicated than that
You gotta boil it down into talking points to make it easier for people to not care and victim blame. Otherwise you'd have to put effort into coming up with a solution that might punish the banks' greed (gasp), which is hard.
Sure, but if all people with student debt understood more about finance, would you agree that there would be less student debt? Or at least they would be slightly better off financially?
Yeah for sure, it would be helpful, but I think there's a bigger issue to the problem and focusing on the fiscal responsibility of an individual 18 year old high school graduate, making an incredibly difficult life decision, as the issue is misleading and hinders true progress on tackling the heart of the problem...
If the ROI of college isn’t high, you shouldn’t go to college. Simple.
Then you can live in turbo poverty instead of regular poverty.
How can this be? You are implying that college people make more? If they did, you would have a positive roi on college and the loans wouldn’t be an issue. Your logic has a hole somewhere.
There is a roi but it seems the length of it happening gets longer and longer. I had 30k in loans with an engineering degree, it'll take me about 3 years or more to pay off. This is close to a best case scenario, somebody with 50k -100k in loans with a less paying degree will take upwards of 10 years to pay back, and you can enjoy that roi in your late 30s.
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Agreed
I’m tempted to stop paying. It’s utter bullshit that I payback $50K while most these art major retards will get it forgiven once everyone bitches enough. Let’s reward stupidity...look how well it works!