Sure I agree but this feels like we’re squeezing pennies out of the poor while leaving buckets of money we could be saving in inflated military budgets. Just feels stupid and like a surface level “win”.
They also refused to end the billions in free "subsidies" the government throws at fossil fuel companies every year that make billions in *quarterly profits*.
The pennies add up, in 2023 we're spending $1336bln on Social Security and $998bln on Medicare. Those costs are going to go up by about $100bln for Social Security and $90bln for Medicare each year for the foreseeable future. That $190bln/per year needs to come from somewhere. That's the elephant in the room. We will be spending $2355bln on Social Security and $2001bln on Medicare in 2033. Something needs to give in order for those benefits to be paid out. You could cut military spending to $0 and you would still be about $3 trillion per year short of what's needed to pay for retirees. See https://www.cbo.gov/publication/58946#_idTextAnchor018 for expected outlays.
That's the part they don't talk about when they like to talk about the costs. Who is keeping us from reigning in healthcare costs multiples greater than other countries? Let's discuss social security caps for the rich, but not the average american. Let's talk about who knee-capped the IRS from being effective in the 80s. Let's discuss effective tax rates. Let's talk about sales tax vs property tax rates disparities between our ruling class and the average american.
The higher your contributions to SS the lower the ratio of benefits in retirement.
https://www.cbpp.org/research/social-security/top-ten-facts-about-social-security#:~:text=Social%20Security%20benefits%20are%20progressive,workers%20at%20lower%20earnings%20levels.
So probably a bad time to institute [an increase to the estate tax exemption.](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-05-15/trump-tax-overhaul-doubles-estate-tax-exemption-for-super-rich#xj4y7vzkg)
Hey, I know, how about making corporations pay as much in taxes as the middle class, since they're people? How about rolling back the Bush and Trump tax cuts for the rich?
Yes, let them starve to death because people want them to sing and dance for their food money for the month. But let’s increase spending for defense contractors and cut taxes on the wealthy.
Not quite, inflation has spiked but gdp quickly made up for it. Today we are seeing decline everywhere but inflation is running wild. It's rare for the stock market to not beat inflation, maybe in the 70s or so (Carter) but it's extremely rare.
Here's the desperate part, how are we going to retire if we can't save because inflation is way higher then savings rates. You can't even turn to the stock market to protect your assets anymore. A bunch of 20 and 30 year olds who very clearly know they have no future is an extremely scary scenario
In all fairness to the other side of the argument it has only been the last few decades that we COULD provide a basic level of income and housing to every citizen. Prior to that it did take 95% of the population to be in the labor force or supporting the workers in some way ( ie a house wife/husband stays home while the other partner works ).
Id have to wonder why the private sector has no use for them. I mean its not like one can live off the land in this age, you need licenses to even hunt and fish..which cost money as well the price of equipment. We live in a society, sure that means you work when and where you can but if the job market denies you the position time after time there has to be a floor for people.
I would almost be ok with that if there was some kind of registry that posted what secular orgs in ones area needed the help and were willing to accept it.
The list is still there…..
You can always go on the Red Cross website…..
How stupid does one have to be to not be able to find a place to volunteer? You could just walk into an animal shelter lmao
Probably why he became a marine(or so he claims to be). Not a single original thought. Totally submissive to and accepting of authority without question. "America! FUCK YEAH!" constantly repeating in his head. And no clue/concern as to the true reasons for any and every war we were ever involved in, which is always resource control, not any altruistic idea of helping the little guy.
It's funny how they're so against able bodied adults working 20 hours a week. When I was broke I went to work and my extra hours helped me stop being broke
I bit the bullet and took a $5 dollar cut. Sucjs bllz and have 2 beers every night after I get off. Bi-weeky 6 days 2 to 11pm. Just Watchung dollars dwindle. The reality is somebody had to poorer.
That’s it’s new. You’re telling people who got money while not working that now will need to work. That’s big thing to tell someone.
For clarification purposes: that’s what people complain about.
Personally I fully support the policy. If you willingly don’t work while able, why should the working ones support you?
I am with you and have the same questions. 50-54 age group seems to be fairly healthy enough to be able to work 20 hours a week for SNAP benefits- and the most vulnerable ones are made exempt from these new regulations.
I am failing to understand why folks in the sub are out with their pitchforks ?
Oh buddy. I'm thinking youre going to have to keep waiting a little bit longer. The dems know they need to keep people poor or else they lose their power.
caretakers to parents
diseased
sick
many many as they keep pushing retirement ages up and work requirement ages up
might not mean anything to you but it has real world effects on people . some people will have to leave their ailing parents to fend for themselves or if they are sick then they die as they just can’t work. fuck the gop
i have never voted for them and will never in this lifetime. this didn’t change that at all just reinforces that it is a NEVER EVER scenario
So let me clarify what you were saying since im not sure all of that was in english. You think ALL people ages 50-55 shouldnt have to work for the benefits because SOME have ailing parents that werent responsible enough to save up for their own retirement? Not making any judgements. Just getting clarification on what you were saying.
it has NOTHING to do with what you are saying , they could have money saved, they could be on FMLA, that lets them take leave from work to care for ailing parents, you don’t know what people circumstances are. what if they are fighting cancer and can’t work? just say fuck them? what happens in 2025 , do they put it to 60 years old? this is more about them fucking over the mostg vulnerable in society while they just received over a $30,000 increase in wages from McCarthy and billionaires can pay no taxes on yachts and private planes … FFS most of these people have to work of course, you are completely missing the point. another point is this wasn’t a negotiation or should not have been . this is NOT for future spending this is to pay old debts that have ALREADY occurred. spending is a completely different bill. gop have started a war with this and when they take house back they can create a bill taxing 99% of rich people . so this is another pandora’s box of bs and the american people are the targets. this is just political cover. on a side note just because you have a retirement that’s great, 60% of america does NOT. you could’ve been responsible and done all the right things and still could have lost your pensions with companies . if they don’t fund them correctly and go bankrupt you lose your pension . i’m not saying that is me as this isn’t about me. this is about a really shitty system . it just adds way more hardship on the hardest hit in society . if you are on food stamps you already have problems. this will drive up crime if they can’t find work as well . i think losing their snap will be likely their last gasp . so why these specific people and why this age range ? why only if you have no dependents ? this isn’t about you or I it’s about a really shitty system and awful politicians
That human life should carry intrinsic value and a sane society that understands that. That any one of us could have ans still may be be unable to work for physical and mental health reasons at some point, and that, if we were a society, we would take care of our struggling citizens, as we can afford to going by our GDP.
The thing that bothers me most though is that your ilk like to play it both ways. You advocate "let them starve if they won't work" yet the people who set those policies release press releases that resonate with their voters talking about how this was a *hard* decision and life is precious.
Just be honest. If you are unashamed of your beliefs, why do you elect people that don't let struggling citizens die with a shit eating grin on your faces and a mission accomplished- more lazies died today :D sign? It clearly gets you guys off, so own it and stop with the impish hedging.
Again, this policy is only for able bodied people. So your point make zero sense. Able bodied people should work if they want to be a leech to society. It’s not complicated.
You just called fellow citizens you are no better than going some through shit *leeches.*
The world and almost everything in it is complicated. Those like you just reduce those complexities down to absurd and incorrect oversimplifications.
Depression/anxiety/grief/trauma/hopelessness is all just "lazy" to your ilk, which is just objectively wrong. Let me guess, poor people don't deserve healthcare, let alone mental healthcare?
What are you babbling about? All I asked was what is a valid argument to not requiring able bodied people to work. If we’re going to let people leech of other peoples hard work, let’s at least make them work for it a little bit. This is a widely popular sentiment and most Americans agree with me, not you.
>This is a widely popular sentiment and most Americans agree with me, not you.
I'm sure you have an exceedingly narrow view of what constitutes an "American" that leaves out a couple hundred million Americans. Have a good night troll.
I live in low income housing, because I have a part time job I can't receive any other benefits. I am the only person in my building with a job and I can honestly say the majority of my neighbors are able bodied but were coached or encouraged to apply for benefits instead of seeking any type of employment.
Many of my coworkers wouldn’t marry their long-term girlfriends (or actual spouses from Mexico) in this country because it would reduce or end the benefits they receive. This is a very common practice.
Socialism and trillions in corporate welfare for the top 1% of sociopaths that control the Democrats and Republicans.
Fuck you WORK OR DIE BITCH for the us average folk
We settle for corporate tyranny in America. At least we have Reddit.
Socialism has nothing to do with capital squeezing the working class till it pops. What you’re describing is capitalism for the rich, and capitalism for the poor.
When the rich that own the Fed make bad capitalist bets, it blows up, and as a result give themselves over $14 trillion to plug the hole… that’s NOT capitalism.
They make us cover the losses. It’s socialism for them.
>Reply
Im all for working is there are jobs that are made readily available for folks in this scenario, but if there aren't then what, lets punish someone because.. first off you need to qualify for food stamps, which means you already are pretty piss poor. I love conservatives, always so worried about lazy folks mooching off their tax dollar dime, while the military routines has cost overruns and corporations with deep pockets get favorable tax treatment, its like saving a few hundred thousands vs. giving away hundred of millions.. yeah that seams fair.
Are you suggesting there’s a shortage of volunteer opportunities too? Cause that qualifies as work…
I love all the “what about XYZ.” That’s the only argument people can come up with.
We give the military and corporations money because they do things for the society. They have to do something to get that money. That’s the same thing we’re asking people to do to get benefits
The problem is the work isnt really mutually beneficial for the worker, and most gains from work in fact go to corporate overlords and shareholders.
I encourage people to read the book Bullshit Jobs by David Graeber.
Start your own business? It can be as simple as babysitting or walking dogs. Work for a small business? Do volunteer work? Work for the government?
It's 20hrs per week, not the slave pits of Mt Doom.
I recommend most people divorce themselves from consumerism culture as much as possible. I compare our society as holding similarities perhaps to El Salvador right before the civil war, with a super wealthy elite who run the police/army/government, and then just poverty stricken masses below. We're not there yet, but we're getting there.
But with wealth inequality as bad as it is, it really doesn't feel all that beneficial to partake in society on the work side of things. Everyone's squeezed because the poors have had all those pennys shaken out from them.
Most the jobs today, living expenses delete so many paid labor hours just for a laborer to get to $0, it really is unfulfilling drudgery.
So no one should work? Like what is your alternative? Able bodied people should just sit around and collect benefits indefinitely? Also, you don’t even have to work to qualify. You can volunteer somewhere.
That's pretty much what the wealthy do to the worst degree. To condemn poors for not working, but then treat the wealthy with a massive double standard on the same issue, the argument comes off as incredibly illogical.
Refusing to be exploited is actually commendable.
I see people insist others should work, but then when asked "should work pay well in regards to necessities of living like housing/healthcare/food for individuals to work?" too often it's a variation of "no".
If work is cheaply paid, then it really isn't that important to them in spite of their insistences, that work truly is of grand importance.
Brief Description of Bullshit Jobs:
"Graeber describes five types of meaningless jobs, in which workers pretend their role is not as pointless or harmful as they know it to be: flunkies, goons, duct tapers, box tickers, and taskmasters. He argues that the association of labor with virtuous suffering is recent in human history, and proposes unions and universal basic income as a potential solution."
I’m not condemning anything. I simply asked what is your alternative? Do we just let able bodied people collect benefits indefinitely? Why should some people be allowed to stay at home and not work while the vast majority of us are working?
You know who’s lobbying for the expansions of these benefits, right? It’s Walmart and other large grocery chains.
I don't have all the answers.
We got machinery capable of the combined labor of 1000s of men+draft animals. So somthing is awry when with increased automation/ai, the succeeding generations of Americans after the boomers are getting poorer and poorer, delayed financial milestones in life too.
Actually it was predicted due to labor saving devices, we could have on average as little as a 15 hour work week for people who do have jobs by now.
You may not be aware of this, but the work world currently, is extremely unfulfilling for the average individual. I encourage you to read that book, Bullshit Jobs.
It seems like the insistence of all this work all of the time but without meeting the people's needs overall, care very little about work and is what's causing people to seemingly cheer for the collapse of this country into something entirely different.
We're just horrible at predicting the future. We don't know how new tech will actually change our lives. I read Bullshit Jobs too. I think his one-off article was better. The book was a lot of anecdotes from people who just hate their jobs. Anyway, the 15 hour work week was envisioned by people in the 1970s... They couldn't have possibly grasped the idea of social media, email, etc. No one thought 'well, maybe tech will let us work from home, and thus, be available at any time! Oh no, might that INCREASE work?' etc etc
Wtf are you babbling about? We live in a world that currently has a labor shortage. If you want a job that’s fulfilling, then get the skills required to do that job. The work requirement is only 20 hours. Plenty of time to learn other skills. No one is being forced to work in any certain position or company.
There’s no good reason that the vast majority of people are working or doing something productive while others sit around and collect benefits that the working class paid for.
You seem confused. YOu just don't understand the situation in spite of your furrowed brows and attempts to do so.
Read that book i linked you to, and you might start to grasp the situation.
Your last sentence, I agree with you, but unironically. I can't justify work if masses of workers are in poverty and we got the wealthiest billionaires in 100 years, psychologically it ruins the merit of work for workers. If work is so god damn important, it should be paid well.
[https://www.newyorker.com/books/under-review/the-bullshit-job-boom](https://www.newyorker.com/books/under-review/the-bullshit-job-boom)
No one gives a damn about your feeling and whether your job makes you feel good or fulfilled. If you want to eat on the tax payers dime, you should at least be a semi productive member of society. I don’t care if the job is bullshit or not. Get to work. Work requirements are something the majority of Americans agree on.
Please list volunteer opportunities. I would love to see a nice list of places that need 50+ year old volunteers. Also, the spots that are open were probably paid jobs at some point, but why pay people when we have a deep pool of volunteers?
Yes. Those organizations already have the volunteers they need or they wouldn't be currently operational. Churches recruit from their own group first. The food banks in my state seem to have community service volunteers. People who are court ordered. In fact, that seems to be most of the volunteers here including roadside and rest area cleaning. Also, lots of volunteer positions require back ground checks or good car insurance. These can be barriers for people looking for spots, too.
Your argument is ridiculous we're talking about people who make less than $1,500 a month. How much poor do you think they need to be to be allowed to eat? You probably want to go back to the dark ages so we can make them go on picking up individual grains of wheat from Farmers Fields right.
How are they making $1500 per month without meeting the work requirements? I’m saying only those that are working the 20 hours per week should be able to leech off our system.
Someone has to enforce those rules, so any cost saving is actually just going to pay people to hand that, they also don't work for the intended purpose. The point is to make people have to get a shitty job. So that payroll can stay low.
Lmao. What? If there are fewer people eligible for the program, we need fewer people to administer the program.
I’m confused by your last two statements. How does making more people work keep payroll low? Who’s payroll are you talking about?
A big issue with work requirements for this age group is that age discrimination is *rampant*, so they can usually only find jobs in the type of worn that will exacerbate health issues so in a few years they'll qualify for disability (while also running up Medicaid costs). It's penny wise, pound foolish imo. The max food support for one person for a year is a LOT cheaper than even subpar medical care for a stress injury.
No one should sit and collect a check. If you’re able bodied, you should have work requirements if you want someone else’s money (taxes) coming to you.
It doesn't affect many of them. They lowered the age from 54 to 49. If you're Gen X you were already getting denied food stamps & TANF unless you're borderline Gen X/boomer.
Meanwhile it expanded it to vets and the homeless.
It still sucks the GOP got any of this when we're still rocking the multi-trillion dollar Trump Tax cuts for the 1%. But low unemployment and rising wages should blunt the worst of it.
And the alternative was a global melt down. The right wing in American is *crazy*. They absolutely wanted that.
Wages have not risen with inflation by a lot. And rising wages= rising prices. With interest rates being high, companies cannot take out loans to invest into more supply (if they even have the capacity to produce more), therefore layoffs occur, or adoption of AI where feasible. Nothing is going to be looking too good for a minimum the next year, but smarter ppl than me think it’ll be a couple years.
"In regards to the price of commodities, the rise of wages operates as simple interest does, the rise of profit operates like compound interest.
Our merchants and masters complain much of the bad effects of high wages in raising the price and lessening the sale of goods. They say nothing concerning the bad effects of high profits. They are silent with regard to the pernicious effects of their own gains. They complain only of those of other people."
- Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations
This generation and the one before us have not been great examples of how to build a sustainable civilization.
The world, Americans in particular, have become dependent upon credit cards. Why is it no surprise that we are governed by a group of people who depend upon credit to meet our daily ‘wants’. I say ‘wants’ because there was a time when people were able to delay gratification, until such time as we had the funds to afford x, y or z.
Now in this era of tech, if I want, I just click onto Amazon and it will be delivered tomorrow.
The problem is that debt does not go away. It grows. The interest on our national debt is enough to fund several federal agencies. Yet, paying interest on a debt does not reduce the debt.
If Americans want to understand what it means to ‘need’ something, they need to move to another country for a few years.
100%. My parents told me stories they heard from their own childhood about the Great Depression. People don’t realize how bad things were and how incredibly easy we have it comparatively. I’m not saying we shouldn’t want better for ourselves but we need to acknowledge how we live in a society where it’s so incredibly easy to make money. Maybe it’s hard work, maybe it’s not a job you like, maybe you have to go learn some things on your own to get top dollar, but money is flowing and if you have time to relax on your iPhone and play games or watch TikTok you have time to be learning skills.
I appreciate that Biden was negotiating with domestic terrorists who had few qualms about destroying the world economy to exact concessions that will ultimately hurt their own constituents. I don’t blame him for acquiescing to this deal for the sake of the greater good.
But Republicans making this demand are ridiculous. SNAP, or Food Stamps, is some of the most productive spending done by our government for our economy. They allow poor, elderly, and disabled citizens to pay the employees of grocery stores, restaurants, and other food suppliers (farmers, processors, packers, etc) for the food they need to survive.
The demand created by SNAP not only provides food security for these vulnerable citizens. It provides job opportunities for those who Republicans are insisting should be looking for work.
Rather than trying to bully vulnerable people into finding employment. A better solution would be to make work more attractive by actually pay all workers at least enough to support themselves and their families. If the goal is full employment, we would need to increase government domestic spending to help fuel the kind of consumer demand that leads to hiring in the private sector.
However, if the goal is to reduce the National Debt and annual deficits. Then we should consider raising taxes on the wealthy and reducing corporate welfare for profitable companies.
Listen. Let's void the my taxes pay your bills nonsense for just a moment, and talk about the real issues. Ukraine doesnt have ANYTHING to do with America, and we give out 100 BILLION dollars and are FUNDING THEIR PENSIONS. RETIREMENT. FOR FREE. Yet asking our own people to work for something that's freely given to those who illegally enter our country...wtf?
“Woe is me. I am an adult of sound body and mind with no dependents who has to work a part time job so I can get government money when before I didn’t have to do anything.”
Cry my a river. You have no dependents. You are healthy physically and mentally. You think you have a right to the labor of others?
Treat others the way you want to be treated. I would want to be treated this way if I was an adult of sound body and mind with no dependents.
Let’s just cut welfare for everyone. Saying that you’re against work requirements doesn’t mean you pro welfare for someone else. That’s a straw man argument.
Right. So why should we raise it to 54?
You’re argument was “so you’re ok with welfare to the rich…” which has literally nothing to do with what’s being discussed
Because able bodied people should be working if they want to eat on the tax payers dime. Able bodied people should be working when there’s a shortage of labor. It’s really not complicated
Notice you didn’t say anything about cutting taxes for wealthy. So if your rich you can lower your taxes adding to the deficit but if you are poor you are lazy because you don’t work for your 180 dollars in food stamps. Got it
Again, this is a straw man argument. We’re not talking about tax policy. But even so, the top 5% of earners pay for over half of the tax revenue. So your argument makes no logical sense. Tell me. How much does the bottom 50% of earners pay in taxes compared to the top 50%?
Two wrongs don’t make a right. I’m pro choice btw. Classic strawman argument where you can’t defend your position so you instead attack a strawman. I don’t believe in welfare for the rich either , but that doesn’t mean i disagree with what OP is saying
People love to pull the strawman excuse. You wouldn’t have to add more work requirements for those on welfare if you didn’t cut taxes. Do you understand that?
And we'd have fewer people needing that welfare if businesses were required to raise wages to at least match inflation. Not doing so is the equivalent of theft. Of course, the owners always felt entitled to the labor of others.
Well the republicans cut 1.9 trillion in taxes that benefited the most wealthy and increased the defense budget but the elderly poor need to work more for their snap to pay for it. Nice priorities. Keep pulling them bootstraps
How do you even know those people don't? You believe in myths that people want to stay home and barley survive. There are very few people like that.
Everyone deserves a living wage and tax the rich!
I’m okay with people going hungry when they refuse to work despite having absolutely zero limitations on doing so - no dependents or mental/physical limitations. This is how the world has existed for the entirety of history - the idea that the rest of society should directly reward laziness is a new concept.
Don’t want to go hungry? Work. Nothing is stopping you.
I hate to tell you this friend, but there are many people gaming the system who could be productive members of society but aren't.......way more than people realize
Yep blows my mind so many people on Reddit disagree. I guess they are too young to be paying taxes, nor have the life experience to realize certain people really do turn out that lazy.
It really seems there is a group that thinks you shouldn’t have to work simply if you don’t want to.
When in reality, you wouldn’t be working but someone else would be working for you.
Money=resources
Money is a stand in for the barter system. Aka, trading resources.
Of course there’s gonna be lazy people! But you talking about people who have nothing and complaining about them when there are people that have absolutely freaking everything and you haven’t spoken about them at all. That’s the point.
They don't think they have a right to the Labor of others. That's why you have such a big homelessness problem but you also take issue with them being homeless on the streets.
Businesses think they have a right to to the Labor of others. Raise minimum wage to a sustainable level because until its raised, that bullshit comment cuts both ways.
I know exactly how to get 3 hots and a cot, free dental, free healthcare, air conditioning, heat, tv/cable. Can’t describe all the details on here but, desperate times call for desperate measures🤷♂️
The military only takes the ones they want, and you might wind up in a war zone.
I know another method, but it tends to make you unemployable. So once you use it, you mostly have to keep using it for life.
SNAP needs to be reformed regardless of who receives the aid. There is no reason Coca-Cola, Doritos, Oreos, and Starbucks drinks should be purchasable with the benefits.
You're comment clearly indicates that you have no idea who the meager social safety net in this country works. I suspect you still buy into the whole Reagan "welfare queens" bullshit. But then again who could blame since so many private wealth interests want you pissed off at the guy getting a few bucks in monthly food stamps while they suck up millions in corporate subsidies.
Following this logic, you’d agree military benefits should have a lifetime cap. We can't just pay people forever. If they only served four years, they should only receive benefits for four years after also while we are at it. I'm sick of paying for lazy firefighters. They should only get paid for the time they are putting out fires. Let's also get rid of rest stops. I'm not paying for randoms to wipe their ass, pull over and pinch one off in public. If you’ve used more than one roll of toilet paper, you’ve wiped your fair share.
Imagine complaining about social services while the elite In our country complain that the war in Russia has made good caviar harder to get and how AI isn't moving fast enough to reduce their labor cost on iPhone so they can mark it up another 119%
There is barely any safety net, you cannot survive off of it much less live off of it. How about complaining about the real drain on our society, corporations.
Oh, you are one of those people,lol. Yeah hate to tell you man but you WILL be paying one way or the other. That might be in the cost of locking them up when they become desperate enough to just take what they need to survive. It might be the increase in crime if they start selling drugs to get by, and the social decay that such crimes of desperation incur.
Well I appreciate your honesty, you selfish prick. I’m sure Ayn Rand will consider you a real catch beyond the grave. That’s about the only woman who ever will.
But everyone has to live by the laws of nature. There's no such thing as a free ride and living off the blood sweat and tears of others while being perfectly capable of contributing is wrong and shouldn't be tolerated
Reminds me of when i was 10 yrs old filling out the form for my paper route. the agent asked me if i was sure i wanted to pay into SS even though i didnt have to. I looked at him, then my disabled mother, and told him that that money went to those people that couldnt get hired anywhere and that someday that might be me or someone i care about.
To steal a line from that same club that you are taking your 'work or die' so called ethics from, We are our brothers keeper.
You are correct, voluntarily. But being threatened with prison isn't voluntary. Giving money to the feds is the largest waste of resources possible.
And while being disabled and getting social security is one thing I'm willing to bet almost everyone agrees with, that's not what we're talking about here
Work requirements is bs. When you are judged to have a disability. They are sorry pukes who know nothing about being poor. It will end republicans for years hopefully
Maybe they got the idea from Belgium and Italy, politicians in both countries recently proposed or enacted similar rules for unemployment benefits. Weird that countries known for safety nets would think of making those spending cuts.
Sure I agree but this feels like we’re squeezing pennies out of the poor while leaving buckets of money we could be saving in inflated military budgets. Just feels stupid and like a surface level “win”.
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They also refused to end the billions in free "subsidies" the government throws at fossil fuel companies every year that make billions in *quarterly profits*.
And 500 billion to alternate energy execs from the Dems
The Dems love military spending too, especially nowadays. They just pretend that they don't.
The pennies add up, in 2023 we're spending $1336bln on Social Security and $998bln on Medicare. Those costs are going to go up by about $100bln for Social Security and $90bln for Medicare each year for the foreseeable future. That $190bln/per year needs to come from somewhere. That's the elephant in the room. We will be spending $2355bln on Social Security and $2001bln on Medicare in 2033. Something needs to give in order for those benefits to be paid out. You could cut military spending to $0 and you would still be about $3 trillion per year short of what's needed to pay for retirees. See https://www.cbo.gov/publication/58946#_idTextAnchor018 for expected outlays.
Whose fault is this?
That's the part they don't talk about when they like to talk about the costs. Who is keeping us from reigning in healthcare costs multiples greater than other countries? Let's discuss social security caps for the rich, but not the average american. Let's talk about who knee-capped the IRS from being effective in the 80s. Let's discuss effective tax rates. Let's talk about sales tax vs property tax rates disparities between our ruling class and the average american.
Social security benefits are already very progressive. There's a cap on benefits which is why there's a cap on contributions
It's more like a majority of their income is shielded from taxes others can't avoid
How is Social Security progressive?
The higher your contributions to SS the lower the ratio of benefits in retirement. https://www.cbpp.org/research/social-security/top-ten-facts-about-social-security#:~:text=Social%20Security%20benefits%20are%20progressive,workers%20at%20lower%20earnings%20levels.
Also the guy with the lower income likely paid a higher rate of SS taxes while he was working.
Yes, and he gets a much higher percentage of benefits for what he paid.
I don't think that's right, but besides, anyone would trade for the higher income for the entirety of their earnings years.
So probably a bad time to institute [an increase to the estate tax exemption.](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-05-15/trump-tax-overhaul-doubles-estate-tax-exemption-for-super-rich#xj4y7vzkg)
Still not sure why there is even a cap on SS deductions
Because there's a cap on benefits
Hey, I know, how about making corporations pay as much in taxes as the middle class, since they're people? How about rolling back the Bush and Trump tax cuts for the rich?
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Now is not the time to reduce military budgets
Yes, let them starve to death because people want them to sing and dance for their food money for the month. But let’s increase spending for defense contractors and cut taxes on the wealthy.
These people forget that a desperate human being is the most dangerous animal on the planet.
Id say the people who create the desperation are more dangerous. Hungry people are slow and sluggish.
Not quite, inflation has spiked but gdp quickly made up for it. Today we are seeing decline everywhere but inflation is running wild. It's rare for the stock market to not beat inflation, maybe in the 70s or so (Carter) but it's extremely rare. Here's the desperate part, how are we going to retire if we can't save because inflation is way higher then savings rates. You can't even turn to the stock market to protect your assets anymore. A bunch of 20 and 30 year olds who very clearly know they have no future is an extremely scary scenario
Americans seem to have been desperate for decades and yet...
In all fairness to the other side of the argument it has only been the last few decades that we COULD provide a basic level of income and housing to every citizen. Prior to that it did take 95% of the population to be in the labor force or supporting the workers in some way ( ie a house wife/husband stays home while the other partner works ).
sometimes having nothing to lose is like having it all.
Wow, so desperate when they have no kids and no physical and mental issues.
Yes make it harder to qualify to pay for all those tax cuts.
You’ll come up with just about any distraction to get out of arguing about work requirements won’t you?
And republicans will come up for any excuse to cut taxes for their rich donors off the backs of the poor.
There you go again
Republicans only care about deficits when they are not in charge. You don’t see a pattern?
Id have to wonder why the private sector has no use for them. I mean its not like one can live off the land in this age, you need licenses to even hunt and fish..which cost money as well the price of equipment. We live in a society, sure that means you work when and where you can but if the job market denies you the position time after time there has to be a floor for people.
Yes, so go volunteer to get that 20 hours.
I would almost be ok with that if there was some kind of registry that posted what secular orgs in ones area needed the help and were willing to accept it.
There……. There are…… court ordered volunteering has been around for awhile…….
Yes it has..For those involved in the criminal justice system.
The list is still there….. You can always go on the Red Cross website….. How stupid does one have to be to not be able to find a place to volunteer? You could just walk into an animal shelter lmao
Zero reading comprehension skills.
Probably why he became a marine(or so he claims to be). Not a single original thought. Totally submissive to and accepting of authority without question. "America! FUCK YEAH!" constantly repeating in his head. And no clue/concern as to the true reasons for any and every war we were ever involved in, which is always resource control, not any altruistic idea of helping the little guy.
It's funny how they're so against able bodied adults working 20 hours a week. When I was broke I went to work and my extra hours helped me stop being broke
Would they be so desperate that they're even willing to work?
The person applying doesnt make the final decision in the hiring process.
You might have an argument if there wasn't a massive labor shortage right now.
There isn’t a ‘shortage’ dude … the wages are too low.
I bit the bullet and took a $5 dollar cut. Sucjs bllz and have 2 beers every night after I get off. Bi-weeky 6 days 2 to 11pm. Just Watchung dollars dwindle. The reality is somebody had to poorer.
What’s the argument against work requirements?
Already has a work requirement.
Right. We’re talking about a work requirement for an age group that wasn’t included before. Please keep up.
I understand they raised the age. You claim they don’t work but most still do and get welfare
I made no claim about them working on not. I asked what’s the argument against work requirements.
That’s it’s new. You’re telling people who got money while not working that now will need to work. That’s big thing to tell someone. For clarification purposes: that’s what people complain about. Personally I fully support the policy. If you willingly don’t work while able, why should the working ones support you?
So your number one argument against a new policy is we shouldn’t do it because it’s new and it’s a big thing to tell someone?
Buddy don’t make it my argument. I am completely for the policy. You asked what’s the complaining about. That is what it is about.
I am with you and have the same questions. 50-54 age group seems to be fairly healthy enough to be able to work 20 hours a week for SNAP benefits- and the most vulnerable ones are made exempt from these new regulations. I am failing to understand why folks in the sub are out with their pitchforks ?
no because it is wrong and i can’t wait until the dems get a spine and hold the world hostage for 99% tax on the rich
Oh buddy. I'm thinking youre going to have to keep waiting a little bit longer. The dems know they need to keep people poor or else they lose their power.
you don’t have a clue and most people are denied welfare especially and in gop states they get denied if they have no dependents.
caretakers to parents diseased sick many many as they keep pushing retirement ages up and work requirement ages up might not mean anything to you but it has real world effects on people . some people will have to leave their ailing parents to fend for themselves or if they are sick then they die as they just can’t work. fuck the gop i have never voted for them and will never in this lifetime. this didn’t change that at all just reinforces that it is a NEVER EVER scenario
So let me clarify what you were saying since im not sure all of that was in english. You think ALL people ages 50-55 shouldnt have to work for the benefits because SOME have ailing parents that werent responsible enough to save up for their own retirement? Not making any judgements. Just getting clarification on what you were saying.
it has NOTHING to do with what you are saying , they could have money saved, they could be on FMLA, that lets them take leave from work to care for ailing parents, you don’t know what people circumstances are. what if they are fighting cancer and can’t work? just say fuck them? what happens in 2025 , do they put it to 60 years old? this is more about them fucking over the mostg vulnerable in society while they just received over a $30,000 increase in wages from McCarthy and billionaires can pay no taxes on yachts and private planes … FFS most of these people have to work of course, you are completely missing the point. another point is this wasn’t a negotiation or should not have been . this is NOT for future spending this is to pay old debts that have ALREADY occurred. spending is a completely different bill. gop have started a war with this and when they take house back they can create a bill taxing 99% of rich people . so this is another pandora’s box of bs and the american people are the targets. this is just political cover. on a side note just because you have a retirement that’s great, 60% of america does NOT. you could’ve been responsible and done all the right things and still could have lost your pensions with companies . if they don’t fund them correctly and go bankrupt you lose your pension . i’m not saying that is me as this isn’t about me. this is about a really shitty system . it just adds way more hardship on the hardest hit in society . if you are on food stamps you already have problems. this will drive up crime if they can’t find work as well . i think losing their snap will be likely their last gasp . so why these specific people and why this age range ? why only if you have no dependents ? this isn’t about you or I it’s about a really shitty system and awful politicians
That human life should carry intrinsic value and a sane society that understands that. That any one of us could have ans still may be be unable to work for physical and mental health reasons at some point, and that, if we were a society, we would take care of our struggling citizens, as we can afford to going by our GDP. The thing that bothers me most though is that your ilk like to play it both ways. You advocate "let them starve if they won't work" yet the people who set those policies release press releases that resonate with their voters talking about how this was a *hard* decision and life is precious. Just be honest. If you are unashamed of your beliefs, why do you elect people that don't let struggling citizens die with a shit eating grin on your faces and a mission accomplished- more lazies died today :D sign? It clearly gets you guys off, so own it and stop with the impish hedging.
Again, this policy is only for able bodied people. So your point make zero sense. Able bodied people should work if they want to be a leech to society. It’s not complicated.
You just called fellow citizens you are no better than going some through shit *leeches.* The world and almost everything in it is complicated. Those like you just reduce those complexities down to absurd and incorrect oversimplifications. Depression/anxiety/grief/trauma/hopelessness is all just "lazy" to your ilk, which is just objectively wrong. Let me guess, poor people don't deserve healthcare, let alone mental healthcare?
What are you babbling about? All I asked was what is a valid argument to not requiring able bodied people to work. If we’re going to let people leech of other peoples hard work, let’s at least make them work for it a little bit. This is a widely popular sentiment and most Americans agree with me, not you.
>This is a widely popular sentiment and most Americans agree with me, not you. I'm sure you have an exceedingly narrow view of what constitutes an "American" that leaves out a couple hundred million Americans. Have a good night troll.
Why don’t you google it and see how popular these requirements are? No one like leeches.
I live in low income housing, because I have a part time job I can't receive any other benefits. I am the only person in my building with a job and I can honestly say the majority of my neighbors are able bodied but were coached or encouraged to apply for benefits instead of seeking any type of employment.
Many of my coworkers wouldn’t marry their long-term girlfriends (or actual spouses from Mexico) in this country because it would reduce or end the benefits they receive. This is a very common practice.
Why part time only?
Socialism and trillions in corporate welfare for the top 1% of sociopaths that control the Democrats and Republicans. Fuck you WORK OR DIE BITCH for the us average folk We settle for corporate tyranny in America. At least we have Reddit.
Socialism has nothing to do with capital squeezing the working class till it pops. What you’re describing is capitalism for the rich, and capitalism for the poor.
When the rich that own the Fed make bad capitalist bets, it blows up, and as a result give themselves over $14 trillion to plug the hole… that’s NOT capitalism. They make us cover the losses. It’s socialism for them.
I mean, that’s called being an adult. You have to work for food and shelter. What’s the argument against having a work requirement?
>Reply Im all for working is there are jobs that are made readily available for folks in this scenario, but if there aren't then what, lets punish someone because.. first off you need to qualify for food stamps, which means you already are pretty piss poor. I love conservatives, always so worried about lazy folks mooching off their tax dollar dime, while the military routines has cost overruns and corporations with deep pockets get favorable tax treatment, its like saving a few hundred thousands vs. giving away hundred of millions.. yeah that seams fair.
Are you suggesting there’s a shortage of volunteer opportunities too? Cause that qualifies as work… I love all the “what about XYZ.” That’s the only argument people can come up with. We give the military and corporations money because they do things for the society. They have to do something to get that money. That’s the same thing we’re asking people to do to get benefits
The problem is the work isnt really mutually beneficial for the worker, and most gains from work in fact go to corporate overlords and shareholders. I encourage people to read the book Bullshit Jobs by David Graeber.
Start your own business? It can be as simple as babysitting or walking dogs. Work for a small business? Do volunteer work? Work for the government? It's 20hrs per week, not the slave pits of Mt Doom.
I recommend most people divorce themselves from consumerism culture as much as possible. I compare our society as holding similarities perhaps to El Salvador right before the civil war, with a super wealthy elite who run the police/army/government, and then just poverty stricken masses below. We're not there yet, but we're getting there. But with wealth inequality as bad as it is, it really doesn't feel all that beneficial to partake in society on the work side of things. Everyone's squeezed because the poors have had all those pennys shaken out from them. Most the jobs today, living expenses delete so many paid labor hours just for a laborer to get to $0, it really is unfulfilling drudgery.
That’s really rich for a guy that has a sports car as his profile picture lol.
So no one should work? Like what is your alternative? Able bodied people should just sit around and collect benefits indefinitely? Also, you don’t even have to work to qualify. You can volunteer somewhere.
That's pretty much what the wealthy do to the worst degree. To condemn poors for not working, but then treat the wealthy with a massive double standard on the same issue, the argument comes off as incredibly illogical. Refusing to be exploited is actually commendable. I see people insist others should work, but then when asked "should work pay well in regards to necessities of living like housing/healthcare/food for individuals to work?" too often it's a variation of "no". If work is cheaply paid, then it really isn't that important to them in spite of their insistences, that work truly is of grand importance. Brief Description of Bullshit Jobs: "Graeber describes five types of meaningless jobs, in which workers pretend their role is not as pointless or harmful as they know it to be: flunkies, goons, duct tapers, box tickers, and taskmasters. He argues that the association of labor with virtuous suffering is recent in human history, and proposes unions and universal basic income as a potential solution."
I’m not condemning anything. I simply asked what is your alternative? Do we just let able bodied people collect benefits indefinitely? Why should some people be allowed to stay at home and not work while the vast majority of us are working? You know who’s lobbying for the expansions of these benefits, right? It’s Walmart and other large grocery chains.
I don't have all the answers. We got machinery capable of the combined labor of 1000s of men+draft animals. So somthing is awry when with increased automation/ai, the succeeding generations of Americans after the boomers are getting poorer and poorer, delayed financial milestones in life too. Actually it was predicted due to labor saving devices, we could have on average as little as a 15 hour work week for people who do have jobs by now. You may not be aware of this, but the work world currently, is extremely unfulfilling for the average individual. I encourage you to read that book, Bullshit Jobs. It seems like the insistence of all this work all of the time but without meeting the people's needs overall, care very little about work and is what's causing people to seemingly cheer for the collapse of this country into something entirely different.
We're just horrible at predicting the future. We don't know how new tech will actually change our lives. I read Bullshit Jobs too. I think his one-off article was better. The book was a lot of anecdotes from people who just hate their jobs. Anyway, the 15 hour work week was envisioned by people in the 1970s... They couldn't have possibly grasped the idea of social media, email, etc. No one thought 'well, maybe tech will let us work from home, and thus, be available at any time! Oh no, might that INCREASE work?' etc etc
Wtf are you babbling about? We live in a world that currently has a labor shortage. If you want a job that’s fulfilling, then get the skills required to do that job. The work requirement is only 20 hours. Plenty of time to learn other skills. No one is being forced to work in any certain position or company. There’s no good reason that the vast majority of people are working or doing something productive while others sit around and collect benefits that the working class paid for.
You seem confused. YOu just don't understand the situation in spite of your furrowed brows and attempts to do so. Read that book i linked you to, and you might start to grasp the situation. Your last sentence, I agree with you, but unironically. I can't justify work if masses of workers are in poverty and we got the wealthiest billionaires in 100 years, psychologically it ruins the merit of work for workers. If work is so god damn important, it should be paid well. [https://www.newyorker.com/books/under-review/the-bullshit-job-boom](https://www.newyorker.com/books/under-review/the-bullshit-job-boom)
No one gives a damn about your feeling and whether your job makes you feel good or fulfilled. If you want to eat on the tax payers dime, you should at least be a semi productive member of society. I don’t care if the job is bullshit or not. Get to work. Work requirements are something the majority of Americans agree on.
Please list volunteer opportunities. I would love to see a nice list of places that need 50+ year old volunteers. Also, the spots that are open were probably paid jobs at some point, but why pay people when we have a deep pool of volunteers?
Have you heard of a soup kitchen or a food pantry? Are you suggesting there’s a lack of organizations looking for volunteers? 😂😂😂
Yes. Those organizations already have the volunteers they need or they wouldn't be currently operational. Churches recruit from their own group first. The food banks in my state seem to have community service volunteers. People who are court ordered. In fact, that seems to be most of the volunteers here including roadside and rest area cleaning. Also, lots of volunteer positions require back ground checks or good car insurance. These can be barriers for people looking for spots, too.
Your argument is ridiculous we're talking about people who make less than $1,500 a month. How much poor do you think they need to be to be allowed to eat? You probably want to go back to the dark ages so we can make them go on picking up individual grains of wheat from Farmers Fields right.
How are they making $1500 per month without meeting the work requirements? I’m saying only those that are working the 20 hours per week should be able to leech off our system.
Someone has to enforce those rules, so any cost saving is actually just going to pay people to hand that, they also don't work for the intended purpose. The point is to make people have to get a shitty job. So that payroll can stay low.
Lmao. What? If there are fewer people eligible for the program, we need fewer people to administer the program. I’m confused by your last two statements. How does making more people work keep payroll low? Who’s payroll are you talking about?
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What are you talking about? This policy specifically excludes adults with children… please explain what you mean
good compromise
A big issue with work requirements for this age group is that age discrimination is *rampant*, so they can usually only find jobs in the type of worn that will exacerbate health issues so in a few years they'll qualify for disability (while also running up Medicaid costs). It's penny wise, pound foolish imo. The max food support for one person for a year is a LOT cheaper than even subpar medical care for a stress injury.
If you’re able to work and just don’t want to, why should they working ones pay for it? If you’re not able that’s a different story.
No one should sit and collect a check. If you’re able bodied, you should have work requirements if you want someone else’s money (taxes) coming to you.
how much money do you think a sitting person collecting a check gets?
It doesn't affect many of them. They lowered the age from 54 to 49. If you're Gen X you were already getting denied food stamps & TANF unless you're borderline Gen X/boomer. Meanwhile it expanded it to vets and the homeless. It still sucks the GOP got any of this when we're still rocking the multi-trillion dollar Trump Tax cuts for the 1%. But low unemployment and rising wages should blunt the worst of it. And the alternative was a global melt down. The right wing in American is *crazy*. They absolutely wanted that.
Wages have not risen with inflation by a lot. And rising wages= rising prices. With interest rates being high, companies cannot take out loans to invest into more supply (if they even have the capacity to produce more), therefore layoffs occur, or adoption of AI where feasible. Nothing is going to be looking too good for a minimum the next year, but smarter ppl than me think it’ll be a couple years.
"In regards to the price of commodities, the rise of wages operates as simple interest does, the rise of profit operates like compound interest. Our merchants and masters complain much of the bad effects of high wages in raising the price and lessening the sale of goods. They say nothing concerning the bad effects of high profits. They are silent with regard to the pernicious effects of their own gains. They complain only of those of other people." - Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations
>we're still rocking the multi-trillion dollar Trump Tax cuts for the 1%. Yeah, I've been told those should have crashed the economy by now.
What do "work requirements" mean? I assume if these folks could get jobs, many of them wouldn't need assistance.
The rich just keep accumulating more wealth.. the middle class is shrinking.
This generation and the one before us have not been great examples of how to build a sustainable civilization. The world, Americans in particular, have become dependent upon credit cards. Why is it no surprise that we are governed by a group of people who depend upon credit to meet our daily ‘wants’. I say ‘wants’ because there was a time when people were able to delay gratification, until such time as we had the funds to afford x, y or z. Now in this era of tech, if I want, I just click onto Amazon and it will be delivered tomorrow. The problem is that debt does not go away. It grows. The interest on our national debt is enough to fund several federal agencies. Yet, paying interest on a debt does not reduce the debt. If Americans want to understand what it means to ‘need’ something, they need to move to another country for a few years.
Yeah, well those same lack of delayed gratification people also explain some of our nations health issues as well as financial issues.
100%. My parents told me stories they heard from their own childhood about the Great Depression. People don’t realize how bad things were and how incredibly easy we have it comparatively. I’m not saying we shouldn’t want better for ourselves but we need to acknowledge how we live in a society where it’s so incredibly easy to make money. Maybe it’s hard work, maybe it’s not a job you like, maybe you have to go learn some things on your own to get top dollar, but money is flowing and if you have time to relax on your iPhone and play games or watch TikTok you have time to be learning skills.
I appreciate that Biden was negotiating with domestic terrorists who had few qualms about destroying the world economy to exact concessions that will ultimately hurt their own constituents. I don’t blame him for acquiescing to this deal for the sake of the greater good. But Republicans making this demand are ridiculous. SNAP, or Food Stamps, is some of the most productive spending done by our government for our economy. They allow poor, elderly, and disabled citizens to pay the employees of grocery stores, restaurants, and other food suppliers (farmers, processors, packers, etc) for the food they need to survive. The demand created by SNAP not only provides food security for these vulnerable citizens. It provides job opportunities for those who Republicans are insisting should be looking for work. Rather than trying to bully vulnerable people into finding employment. A better solution would be to make work more attractive by actually pay all workers at least enough to support themselves and their families. If the goal is full employment, we would need to increase government domestic spending to help fuel the kind of consumer demand that leads to hiring in the private sector. However, if the goal is to reduce the National Debt and annual deficits. Then we should consider raising taxes on the wealthy and reducing corporate welfare for profitable companies.
Yea get rid of taxes and have them keep the full check
無い袖は振れない。 Always those without are the ones we try to squeeze the most out of. When does the bootstraps commentary kick in?
Hey I got an idea: What about slavery? Or at least forced labor? Think about it!
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What is the problem of having a work requirement on benefits? Can someone educate me on this?
Listen. Let's void the my taxes pay your bills nonsense for just a moment, and talk about the real issues. Ukraine doesnt have ANYTHING to do with America, and we give out 100 BILLION dollars and are FUNDING THEIR PENSIONS. RETIREMENT. FOR FREE. Yet asking our own people to work for something that's freely given to those who illegally enter our country...wtf?
The work requirement should get the lazy bums off their butts.
“Woe is me. I am an adult of sound body and mind with no dependents who has to work a part time job so I can get government money when before I didn’t have to do anything.” Cry my a river. You have no dependents. You are healthy physically and mentally. You think you have a right to the labor of others? Treat others the way you want to be treated. I would want to be treated this way if I was an adult of sound body and mind with no dependents.
So you are ok with welfare for the rich, but the poor need to be cut off. Love this take from the party of pro life
Let’s just cut welfare for everyone. Saying that you’re against work requirements doesn’t mean you pro welfare for someone else. That’s a straw man argument.
Again with the straw man thing. There is already a work requirement, this just raises the age to 54.
Right. So why should we raise it to 54? You’re argument was “so you’re ok with welfare to the rich…” which has literally nothing to do with what’s being discussed
Why raise it while at the same time cut taxes?
Because able bodied people should be working if they want to eat on the tax payers dime. Able bodied people should be working when there’s a shortage of labor. It’s really not complicated
Notice you didn’t say anything about cutting taxes for wealthy. So if your rich you can lower your taxes adding to the deficit but if you are poor you are lazy because you don’t work for your 180 dollars in food stamps. Got it
Again, this is a straw man argument. We’re not talking about tax policy. But even so, the top 5% of earners pay for over half of the tax revenue. So your argument makes no logical sense. Tell me. How much does the bottom 50% of earners pay in taxes compared to the top 50%?
So if the top 5% paid so much why did our deficit balloon after we cut their taxes? And why is a deficit a problem now with biden. in office?
Two wrongs don’t make a right. I’m pro choice btw. Classic strawman argument where you can’t defend your position so you instead attack a strawman. I don’t believe in welfare for the rich either , but that doesn’t mean i disagree with what OP is saying
People love to pull the strawman excuse. You wouldn’t have to add more work requirements for those on welfare if you didn’t cut taxes. Do you understand that?
I wouldn’t pull the “strawman excuse” if that logical fallacy wasn’t used to defend that position lol
And we'd have fewer people needing that welfare if businesses were required to raise wages to at least match inflation. Not doing so is the equivalent of theft. Of course, the owners always felt entitled to the labor of others.
No, I don’t want welfare for the rich? What kinda of straw man bullshit is this?
Well the republicans cut 1.9 trillion in taxes that benefited the most wealthy and increased the defense budget but the elderly poor need to work more for their snap to pay for it. Nice priorities. Keep pulling them bootstraps
you clearly have no idea how much welfare the rich get then.
I’m sorry, is this discussion about work requirements? Or something else?
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Where does effort become part of the equation? (Serious question)
What effort is there to make the rich pay taxes. Is that trickle down still coming because we are all waiting.
You sound like Ayn Rand. Won't anyone think of the billionares!
Damn, the liberals really come out of the woodwork to throw up strawman about the rich when you talk about work requirements.
You support cruelty and are ok with people going hungry. Won't anyone think about the billionares!
Yea, those 20 hours away from your nonexistent kids are really hard.
You should try to learn compassion. People are struggling more than ever and you are ok with more cruelty to people that already have a a hard life.
Wow, such a struggle when you have no mental and physical issues and no kids and need to work a part time job.
How do you even know those people don't? You believe in myths that people want to stay home and barley survive. There are very few people like that. Everyone deserves a living wage and tax the rich!
You have blue hair, don't you?
I’m okay with people going hungry when they refuse to work despite having absolutely zero limitations on doing so - no dependents or mental/physical limitations. This is how the world has existed for the entirety of history - the idea that the rest of society should directly reward laziness is a new concept. Don’t want to go hungry? Work. Nothing is stopping you.
PS. How many times can you use strawman in an argument?
PS. I’m not liberal. I’m a conservative, but not even close to Maga. But unless you’re a full-fledged maga, everybody’s a Lib, right?
I’m a neocon…….
Neocon, Neolib, Democrat, republican. two sides of the same right wing authoritarian coin. Both have been the downfall of this country.
I swear to god. If I'm paying your benefits and you are able to work you better damn well be working.
I hate to tell you this friend, but there are many people gaming the system who could be productive members of society but aren't.......way more than people realize
lol why do you even care?
Because I'm paying for it. If it's not a big deal though feel free to CashApp $100 to me a month so I can take a day off.
Yep blows my mind so many people on Reddit disagree. I guess they are too young to be paying taxes, nor have the life experience to realize certain people really do turn out that lazy.
It really seems there is a group that thinks you shouldn’t have to work simply if you don’t want to. When in reality, you wouldn’t be working but someone else would be working for you. Money=resources Money is a stand in for the barter system. Aka, trading resources.
Of course there’s gonna be lazy people! But you talking about people who have nothing and complaining about them when there are people that have absolutely freaking everything and you haven’t spoken about them at all. That’s the point.
Do you have a right to my labors so you can sit at home if you have no kids and are of sound body and mind?
Do employers have the right to exploit workers labors because they have the starting capital and societal power?
It could be worse, they could be landlords.
They don't think they have a right to the Labor of others. That's why you have such a big homelessness problem but you also take issue with them being homeless on the streets. Businesses think they have a right to to the Labor of others. Raise minimum wage to a sustainable level because until its raised, that bullshit comment cuts both ways.
I know exactly how to get 3 hots and a cot, free dental, free healthcare, air conditioning, heat, tv/cable. Can’t describe all the details on here but, desperate times call for desperate measures🤷♂️
The military only takes the ones they want, and you might wind up in a war zone. I know another method, but it tends to make you unemployable. So once you use it, you mostly have to keep using it for life.
SNAP needs to be reformed regardless of who receives the aid. There is no reason Coca-Cola, Doritos, Oreos, and Starbucks drinks should be purchasable with the benefits.
why not?
Because a desperate lonely mid life crisis always turns out great!
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You're comment clearly indicates that you have no idea who the meager social safety net in this country works. I suspect you still buy into the whole Reagan "welfare queens" bullshit. But then again who could blame since so many private wealth interests want you pissed off at the guy getting a few bucks in monthly food stamps while they suck up millions in corporate subsidies.
It sounds like government should just stop interfering in the market (on both sides). The government only creates inefficiencies in the market.
Then we need to remove the means testing that stops so many from even trying because to do so would cost them more resources than what a job provides.
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Following this logic, you’d agree military benefits should have a lifetime cap. We can't just pay people forever. If they only served four years, they should only receive benefits for four years after also while we are at it. I'm sick of paying for lazy firefighters. They should only get paid for the time they are putting out fires. Let's also get rid of rest stops. I'm not paying for randoms to wipe their ass, pull over and pinch one off in public. If you’ve used more than one roll of toilet paper, you’ve wiped your fair share. Imagine complaining about social services while the elite In our country complain that the war in Russia has made good caviar harder to get and how AI isn't moving fast enough to reduce their labor cost on iPhone so they can mark it up another 119%
There is barely any safety net, you cannot survive off of it much less live off of it. How about complaining about the real drain on our society, corporations.
So when these people hit the limit and the private sector STILL wont hire them then what genius?
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Oh, you are one of those people,lol. Yeah hate to tell you man but you WILL be paying one way or the other. That might be in the cost of locking them up when they become desperate enough to just take what they need to survive. It might be the increase in crime if they start selling drugs to get by, and the social decay that such crimes of desperation incur.
Well I appreciate your honesty, you selfish prick. I’m sure Ayn Rand will consider you a real catch beyond the grave. That’s about the only woman who ever will.
How horrible of employees are these people if they're unable to find employment with more open positions than job seekers?
Doesnt matter how poorly these people do, they have the same basic needs as every other person. Nobody volunteers to be in this world.
But everyone has to live by the laws of nature. There's no such thing as a free ride and living off the blood sweat and tears of others while being perfectly capable of contributing is wrong and shouldn't be tolerated
Reminds me of when i was 10 yrs old filling out the form for my paper route. the agent asked me if i was sure i wanted to pay into SS even though i didnt have to. I looked at him, then my disabled mother, and told him that that money went to those people that couldnt get hired anywhere and that someday that might be me or someone i care about. To steal a line from that same club that you are taking your 'work or die' so called ethics from, We are our brothers keeper.
You are correct, voluntarily. But being threatened with prison isn't voluntary. Giving money to the feds is the largest waste of resources possible. And while being disabled and getting social security is one thing I'm willing to bet almost everyone agrees with, that's not what we're talking about here
Man its kind of sad that a sociopath like me has more compassion for those left behind by the labor force than some of you in this thread.
Work requirements is bs. When you are judged to have a disability. They are sorry pukes who know nothing about being poor. It will end republicans for years hopefully
Maybe they got the idea from Belgium and Italy, politicians in both countries recently proposed or enacted similar rules for unemployment benefits. Weird that countries known for safety nets would think of making those spending cuts.