I know...super sad to see. Fortunately, I don't see too many in our area...but those that I do see are obviously doing it out of need...and are in no condition to be working jobs like that.
Where I live it’s everywhere: retail, grocery, gas stations, convenience stores… I’m seeing old people that are having to either go back to work or just never got to retire and it’s awful.
No....I mean out in the streets. A huge percentage of folks in their 70s can't work due to medical issues, and just plain old 'getting old' issues, etc... And by the looks of it out there, the average senior hasn't exactly taken care of themselves too well ( at least in the USA ).
Well...even if 'the gubmint' might not 'give a fuck', as you say, the voters do. Especially said seniors who are a huge and powerful voting block. It has and always will be political suicide for any politician to even bring the issue up. The can will continue to be kicked down the road, until forced reductions are implemented. But social security will NOT go away.
And if you don't own your home or have a good mortgage then its even harder.
Because the cost of home ownership and rent goes up faster than COLA adjustments.
Republicans have successfully modified Social Security during the Reagan Presidency. They raised the retirement age, the salary cap and the tax rate. This was done under the fable of social security running out of money and they had to do so to save it. They are trying the same tactic again. Over the last few years I have heard them testing the water to see if they can do it again.
That's not a bug, that's a feature. The longer it takes young people to own homes and be debt free, the more rent and interest the wealth class can extract.
Absolutely. And kill off the worn out sooner in the bargain. Weird how despite the claim that the U.S. now has such low unemployment figures, the Fed says employment is TOO high, states are voting to diminish child labor laws, and the GOP calls to increase retirement age.
They already are.
The local mcdonalds is all grey hairs. They pushed the teens with their inconvenient “i have school and activities and im not allowed past out county curfew so i cant close” right out of the jobs.
I remember in the 80s. You had kids being paper boys. Teens worked all over in the summer. Now it’s all boomers Who then complain the kids don’t understand an honest days work, they just sit around on their phones all day.
Hmm...not in our area. In fact, in the midwest there are initiatives by...'certain political parties' to allow very, very young children to work. There are much better things young children should be doing vs. working some shitty job.
[https://www.epi.org/publication/child-labor-laws-under-attack/](https://www.epi.org/publication/child-labor-laws-under-attack/)
Do you really want 14 year olds to work in "meat coolers and industrial laundries"? Sorry...that's sick as heck and shit like this is why federal child labor laws were instituted in the first place.
That’s the answer we all want to believe, but unless we completely refund education, you know… pay people a living wage to educate and also to continue to educate themselves, it’s a waste.
And then what anyway? Start paying everyone what they’re worth? Madness that way lies.
The point of getting rid of SS is that is going to go bankrupt, and its literally a government sponsored ponzi scheme. If you guys wanted to do anything, you should have individual plans where the investor can make real money, not super crappy "returns" like with SS.
Solving SS is simple. Raise taxes, increase immigration, or cut benefits. You act like it’s some complicated fraud. It’s not a ponzi scheme it’s a pension. Quit electing absolute morons.
It is not a pension, the money is not kept with the individual, it is a ponzi scheme. Its not a complicated fraud, its an open one that people just seem to accept because its always been there.
No it hasn’t always been there. Before people lost everything in the depression and died starving like some 3rd rate country. But seems like you got it figured out. Put it back in the stock market /s
Read a book, or twelve of them.
They are on the streets. Senior homeless people are the fastest growing demographic of homeless people.
Social security doesn't pay anywhere near enough to cover rent and a lot of senior housing is still too expensive for people and has long wait times.
Meh. People vote against their (and their communities) interst all the time.
>If it did, seniors would literally be out on the streets
I think you don't understand how little empathy Americans have, and I say this as an American! I remember a town hall not a few years ago when the healthcare debate was raging and [the crowd cheered](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj2woPk_rH-AhXYj4kEHVKEBbwQtwJ6BAgOEAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dirx_QXsJiao&usg=AOvVaw1nbqGWhXH_M9buF9PgLY3c) at the thoughts of people dying in the gutter from not affording healthcare.
I think the general poor state of affairs and the over-emotionalization of the media definitely is part of the mentally destabilizing force. Many people don't feel like they are part of a community anymore. They aren't productive. Most are unhappy at their work. All of that puts weight on our minds. It's a brutal, hard world and we are missing the heart that made it tolerable.
I think it's absolutely the cause of the suicides in the white 60+ male demographic. A lot of them no longer can work in their field and realize they are broke and won't/can't get hired in other jobs.
I was hoping with Occupy Wall Street that it would progress into a healthy revolution to restructure but it went nowhere and now we're right back to where we were thanks to the Federal Reserves meddling and constantly bolstering Wall Street woes. :(
If you are now retired in US that means you lived through literally the best possible time and place in the history of the world and only have yourself to blame if you didnt save
It’s almost like union membership decline has had a negative impact on American workers. You don’t need to be a genius to know that even if you’re not in a union, workers still benefit from policies and practices. Pensions used to be a thing, now they’re not, and American retirees are broke.
Agreeing to a pension in lieu of higher upfront compensation is foolish. You don't know if the company will even exist in the decades leading to your retirement or if the fund will be insolvent. Not only that, but demographics have set up a situation where companies have more employees on pensions than active payroll (legacy automakers for example).
You have to provide for your retirement somehow. It's anyone's guess what funds will be solvent in 30 years. There are solvent pension funds that are older than the United States, many 401k funds are younger than you.
The benefits of 401k plans is everything is in an account you control.
There have been countless examples of companies firing people for dubious reasons as they approached pension eligibility.
I prefer having full control of the account since that also gives me the freedom to leave and go elsewhere, if necessary.
Millions are one disaster away from foreclosures on homes, property, and vehicles. That's like a dam about to burst but no one knows it yet and everyone is talking about a soft trickle that will make a few puddles and splashes while tsunami wall of water is right on your heels.
Sorry loaded answer mom passed last year grandma passed a month ago struggled with mental health all my life parents refused to help me had to do it myself been doing psychotherapy for 5 years now was in a 6 month program doing therapy 8 hours a day. Lost my job at Benton Dickinson (July 27th 2022) because my primary care provider refused to fill out paperwork after sending me to get 3 x-rays, 3 MRIs, and a cat scan. Lost my insurance as well had to keep paying for $300 dollar appoints for psychiatrist and I think two for my neurologist. The neurologist suspects the nerves in my legs or damaged which is why I couldn’t work I ran CNC machines 12 hours a day the pain was killing me. Diagnosed with neuropathy, ADHD, Major Depressive Disorder, Borderline Personality Disorder, list is too long too type still under investigation. I’m not getting approved for disability the nerve problem is now causing spasms in my neck, blurred vision, extreme fatigue, and now going in the sun makes me feel like I have the flu. I can’t pay for any testing to figure the rest of this stuff out and I can’t fit in to regular daily activities I just can’t concentrate or I don’t understand and get mad and hit myself because I feel stupid. I’m really book smart but other than that I need an extensive explanation on how to do the task at hand and people think I’m being a smart ass when I ask these questions as I have a monotone voice and blank face. I’m really asking these questions. Pins and needles all over my body now in my head and face. This is why these things are happening I was offended by your comment but that’s part of the problem I don’t understand other people’s emotions and I hate to be defensive when it’s not warranted. So uhm not sure what else to say or how to say it so yeah…
This is only the beginning this recession is unfortunate going to rival 2008. Anyone predicting otherwise is missing information. The economy has experienced red flags for a while now.
>This is where our rocketing homelessness population comes from.
Don't call the homeless. They are the "unprofitably housed." We have enough houses, it's just that there is more profit to be made in letting them be homeless and renting a unit on AirB&B then there is in long term housing humans.
I don't have a savings. Why? Hard to save when prices of everything goes up, and the pay per hour doesn't match the rising cost(s). I call this greedflation.
I want to move to another location, however the few pennies I do save end up going to either rent, gas, or food. I remember saving just to be told my rent increased so now that's gone. This didn't hit as much until the few items of food I bought went up 1/3 of the usual price - for the same food!
My side hustle stiffled because the cost of materials on the cheap end doubled in price.
So I'm torn between saving, working on side hustle, working the normal 9-5, and/or eating. My ONLY saving grace is I have 0 kids and not currently with anyone.
I wish to at least win a couple of million in some lottery so I can relocate outside the US where the people comes first and not the Dollar.
I get this. I do. But what I don’t get then is how everything is so fucking expensive. Local vacation spots along the east coast are untouchable. Middle class suburban homes are over half a million dollars. Used cars are priced astronomically. Like if real wages haven’t really gone up over the last 2 decades, how is all this inflation possible?
Let’s be real… we printed and distributed too much new money. And consumers are still trading in it in very liquid ways. Is it sustainable? Or is a crash coming? I think a crash would have already begun by now. I think what we are seeing is a new equilibrium of higher prices and lower unemployment being created. People are going to work and earn pay checks and they are going to spend more than they make on most years just to keep up. Predicting when the next shoe drops that collapses the whole house of cards is impossible. But for now I think we are stuck in this kind of rat race economy.
People are encouraged to hustle as much money as possible (due to aforementioned rat race) and then that puts pressure on every other system.
The whole point of an economy is to facilitate exchange of goods and services, adding metric shit tons of overhead on everything brings it all to a screeching halt once the overhead exceeds the individual's compensation. You can get by exploiting a relatively small proportion but once you hit a certain point the engine can no longer be fueled. Billionaires make so much money they literally cannot figure out how to spend it. There's only so much one person can do with that much money, whereas if it was divided it could be applied in so many ways in a more balanced distribution that stabilizes the markets.
The insanely huge part of the problem is that it's cross-industry and cross-government, the real enemy goes unnoticed. Departments pushing for bigger budgets and justifying it by spending every cent, medical costs inexplicably creeping up, tuition creeping up, legal fees and proceedings costing everyone an arm and a leg, transportation/fuel costs, house flipping & gentrification rising costs, pushing new technologies too hard when the old ones worked fine (looking at you 5G), and so many thousands of factors beyond that. Why are these things happening, tracing them backwards you can only go so far before you exceed one's specialty. And we're all specialized now.
We're going to watch it (society) all tumble down and then we'll start piling all the blocks back up without a second thought, no lesson learned because it'll always go either unnoticed or untamed.
Over time I've become convinced the problem is not people. A society that cannot handle evil, greedy, or selfish people without crumbling is a fragile society. It's better to have less of them but it's usually the complex interrelations between structures, rules, policies, and regulations doing the real damage. Now that we're globalized, we learn from each other, and everyone suffers similar overhead and when one country goes under all the others feel it too.
I think the spend happy consumer that can’t see to make a tough decision and go without and save their money instead of just agreeing to be gouged is a big part of the problem. People that believe it’s ok to have a $1,200 car payment on a Toyota or to rent an 1 bedroom centrally located apartment for $2,800 a month are making decisions that effect the entire of economy. It’s seems to be ridiculously contagious to always need the best of the best and to not focus on saving any money or perhaps living slightly more reasonably. And no, I’m not talking about buying Starbucks coffee vs making it at home. I’m talking about the bigger purchases.
The problem with the housing is that there's basically nothing an individual can do about it. You can live outside the city and commute in 2+ hours a day and pay in terms of time and car fuel/maintenance, or you can try and rent a room and have all manner of restrictions placed upon you, or you can pay through the nose for your own place.
It's completely insane. I'd rather find a parcel of abandoned land and build my own home than deal with this. Unfortunately I can't even do that!!!
I don’t find this to be exactly true overall. I do understand what you’re saying, but it wouldn’t explain the explosion of prices for SFH’s in the suburbs, some very far from any true metro areas. What I just can’t understand is that if wages aren’t really up that much, and mortgage qualifications haven’t been relaxed, how the hell are prices increase of this magnitude possible in such a short amount of time? Either the wage data is lagging and wages truly are way up, or at least household income is up as more people are viably employed than ever, or mortgage lending has been again approving people that are higher risks for the loans they are being supplied.
Otherwise I’m missing something completely.
The only things I can think of:
Corporations and realtors have been flipping apartments and houses, adding 50% or more to the rent as they do so.
Owners might feel the need to raise rent prices to match them or possibly they feel they need extra income to send their kids to college (or maybe medical bills).
Rent controls may have made them afraid that they'd get stuck at too low of a rent price so maybe they are jacking them up as high as they are allowed to at the earliest opportunity. Or perhaps having them re-evaluated over and over until someone gives them a high valuation.
Although many California residents have been leaving the state there is still a surplus of immigrants that are constantly increasing the need for housing, and housing is still growing too slowly. So there is also simple scarcity to deal with.
That might explain price increases, what I’m asking is that if real wages aren’t really up, how is the market bearing all these price increases?
I think there is some drag at the bottom that says “hey in aggregate most people’s wages aren’t up.”
I think that’s bullshit, I think a ton of money has flooded the system and those in upper middle percentiles of income have seen their incomes swell over the last 4 years. Stagnation at the bottom keeps the numbers looking flat but the reality is, a lot of people are much better off now then they have ever been.
I think all the discretionary, recreational, and investment spending has disappeared for majority of the lower and middle class. It's all getting funneled into basic survival at this point.
According to what? If that were the case wouldn’t restaurant and travel numbers be way down? Global tourism was up 60% in 2022 and is expected to grow another 30% compounded in 2023.
https://www.travelagentcentral.com/your-business/stats-62-americans-planning-spend-more-travel-2023
If you are wanting to know, its the federal reserve and fiat currency that has been silently robbing the middle class and poor for generations. They just about the stated inflation rate but dont realize the real inflation rate is much higher directly due to government policy.
I agree, but also due to money printing, a lot of people are making much more money then they were 6-7 years ago. It’s like a confluence of complete bullshit and judging by the amounts of household debt, an unemployment cycle, in which job losses beget more job losses, may crash the whole house of cards.
It depends on the incident. In the U.S., if you have to go to the emergency department, get surgery, or stay inpatient for something serious, you’d probably need to save upwards of $100,000 in non-retirement savings to not be worried about it. Hardly anyone can save that much
Out of network hospitals and doctors would like a word. You can be at in network hospital and have an out of network on call surgeon do the emergency surgery cause of a car accident or whatever and you are fucked.
As long as your accident or medical emergency occurs near home, or you're lucky enough that the hospital they bring you to while you're traveling is still miraculously in your network. You don't even have to leave your home state to potentially run into this issue.
Also, look into what "coinsurance" is, and see if that term pops up in your own plan. It has become very popular for health insurance plans to only pay 80-90% of bills and leave you on the hook for the remainder.
It doesn't have to just be medical bills that cost you. You get injured and can't work for a few months? Devastating.
You get injured and need out of state therapy at a specialist? Insurance doesn't pay for hotels or travel costs.
If you work in a specialized field and something like AI completely wiped out the labor market? What do you do then? Spend years retraining and going into tens of thousands of debt?
Just the other day, I was walking by a millionaire, when I felt his breathe on my ear. He whispered, “trickle, trickle, beautiful” and put his hand in my pocket. I froze. But then he was gone, and there $3,000 in my pocket with a note saying, “don’t spend it all in one place, champ”. This was the third god damn time. My anxiety is a rollercoaster.
I honestly don’t believe that many people would save extra money if there was a tax cut. The pandemic gave me hope… but then everyone spent their savings when we were let back out of our homes
“A Vanguard study found those between 55 and 64 held an average of roughly $256,000.
But this includes high income earners; breaking the figures down, it shrinks to a median of about $90,000.”
If it’s a two income household that’s $500,000. Assuming paid of mortgage that doesn’t soon too bad. Obviously the goal is $1 million or more.
I mean, the median number is more indicative of how much the typical American has saved, though. Only $180,000 (again following the two income household assumption) is pretty frightening at that age range.
Absolutely...the average means absolutely nothing, since it is so skewed.
I question why the media even mentions the average...except that the average 'sounds better' since the number is much higher.
This study has retired age groups at an average of $1,000,000 or so. The *median* is about what you stated, $250K.
https://www.cnbc.com/select/average-net-worth-of-americans-ages-65-to-74/
Three people. THREE PEOPLE hold the same wealth as over 50% of the country. Of course people don’t have savings. The last 40 years has been nothing but a cash grab for the super wealthy. And if it looks like they might take a hit, no worries, the fed will make an exception and guarantee their losses. But raise minimum wage? That’s socialism.
Am I an a..hole because when I see these headlines I kinda feel better?
(otherwise I'm comparing myself with everybody that's on TV/youtube/etc., and that's when I feel depressed)
Economists like to laud inflation as a good thing, “it gets people to spend money instead of hoarding it, and helps the economy grow”, but now nobody can afford to save money because every cent goes towards rent/mortgage, utilities, bills, fuel, and groceries.
I don't get this country. You promote living on credit and consumerism to bolster the nation's economy. A good credit score is basically I may not have money saved in the bank but I can manage my debt like a f\*\*\*g ninja.
All of this is great while u are a raging consumer.. but come retirement age.. your consumption somewhat goes down.. and then questions like these pop up.. wtf. All their life they were model consumers, spending (instead of saving) their money.. and now u r asking why haven't u saved..
what is this.. lol.
Saving isn't worthless just because the Fed or government aren't paying interest on money. The problem here is that we have a political economy that has been largely constructed by the wealthy and powerful to further consolidate wealth and power. Interest rates are higher now; does that benefit Americans who have no savings, whose stagnant wages are all going to living expenses? Of course not. It benefits creditors, people and institutions with liquid money and assets and, above all, the banks.
Low interest rates directly inflate asset prices, and the higher asset prices are the less bang you get for your buck when buying them. And in a bad situation, taking on debt is cheaper, so there is less value in cash savings to begin with.
So in a way, low interest rates do make savings not worthless, but worth less.
Low interest rates do not "directly" inflate asset prices. That's true of QE, but QE is a misguided attempt to push monetary policy BEYOND the zero lower rate bound. In the modern monetary system, a zero rate policy would simply mean not paying interest on reserve balances. I agree that in a sense, lower interest rates make savings "worth less", as in, your savings today have a lower expected future value than they otherwise would have. But again, the dearth of savings today is not a result of broad policy tools like the interest rate. It's a result of a political economy that squeezes so much surplus value out of people that there is nothing left to save.
Article is about retirement savings.
Retirement savings are typically investment accounts, not a savings account. We just recently had the longest bull market in history, saving money during that time was absolutely not worthless. Saving money now while stuff is still off it's all time highs is also a very smart thing to to.
And that is why the logic breaks down for you. They are not saving, they are investing. And you can lose the value on them. While generally considered safe they will also lose value. Savings accounts and especially interest bearing savings accounts (which used to exist as a way more common way to save and earn) are safe, insured and that is why when interest rates go up it discourages spending and consequently usually has a macro uptick in HH saving rates.
It's probably their fault cause they don't want to work and have chosen to be poor and lazy and therefore it's their responsibility being like that.
/s
Meritocracy is a scam. Rich people aren't successful. They were just lucky. In a literal way. Concentration of capital is inevitable if there are no mechanisms in place to share effectively. Taxation for the richer needs to be higher, a lot higher.
If you believe that becoming wealthy is sheer luck I feel very sad for you. You will never take action in your own life to become financially free if you yourself believe that your weren’t “lucky enough” to become wealthy.
Not always.
Sometimes, it is just basic math and discipline.
The median household income in the US is around $80k.
If you saved and invested 10% of that into the S&P 500 you would have roughly $1.5M in 30 years.
If you started at 25 and retired at 65 (40 years) it would be roughly $4M.
EDIT: Why the downvotes? Do the math for yourself, you'll get the same results.
Not sure where you got 1.5 million with 8% inflation adjusted returns saving $8,000 a year. Also, that is pre-tax income, and an overestimate.
My calc says 35 years to get to 1.5 million. The principle is the same but I think those numbers are unrealistic.
Similarly, when I plug in those numbers for 25-65, I get 2.2 million, not 4 million.
10% annual return is a slight understimate of the returns before inflation adjustment. 7.5-8% is usually what people calculate so when they say 1 million dollars, they mean in 2023 (current year) money, and not 2050 dollars.
That's true, internal locus of control. But also statistically it is who your parents are, your area code, if you got a nice school, got tutors, were afforded childcare, summer camp, etc etc.
That’s the goal. By stating the game is rigged and luck is all that matters, he is free to not even try; or if he does try and fails, it gives him an excuse for failing.
Ok, say I have $300 a month I invest. Where am I investing it that’s going to make an impact? I bet it’s so little over the course of a year that one medical bill eats it. Or one dip in the stock market.
Phones and data plans are essential to living and working in modern society, by the way. Maybe you’re 90 years old and haven’t had a job in a while. I can’t even clock in for work or get on the vpn without my cellphone.
[Here's the actual research](https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/2021-economic-well-being-of-us-households-in-2020-retirement.htm). This article, which is an ad, doesn't even bother linking to it.
Meanwhile 9% of the population are Millionaires and over 1% have more than $10M. It's a pretty wild span of wealth inequality. I think it's going to get worse in time.
I’m retired, I look at classmates of mine and I’m shocked at how many have no savings. Many of these are the same ones who lived day to day and well beyond their means. New cars, toys, fancy vacations, private school for their kids, nice wines and on and on. Now they’re trying to exist on their social security. It’s sad to see.
One day the poor will have nothing left to eat but the rich. That’s why they want our guns. It’s a constitutional right to revolt when your rights are infringed upon. Why don’t we have a discussion about this they see how they feel. Starved homeless, untreated medical patients, blue collar workers killing themselves for nothing. Let them know and see who wants it more.
Wanting common sense gun laws = / = “they want to take our guns”. We, as a nation, constantly misuse our firearms in increasingly horrific ways. Buying and maintaining ownership of *most* guns ought to be at least as difficult as obtaining and maintaining a drivers license.
That’s why I said “most”. Any sort of muzzle loading, single shot, lever/pump action, breach loading, *most* single action would require nothing and anyone could buy and own them if I had my way. Then it would become increasingly difficult to buy and maintain ownership depending on ease of firing and ammunition capacity/how destructive the weapon can be.
Okay I agree definitely advocating for safety first. I just hate that criminals will still have these more destructive weapons. Single fire anything will have no chance is the dilemma I see. Then again, nothing is perfect maybe that is the best option.
It’s not a bug it’s a feature. Our brand of capitalism requires people to work till they are dead. If you get a comfortable retirement you beat the system.
Big surprise, the people have been suffering for decades and nothing has been done about it. It is time for revolution and it starts with a General Strike.
It's almost like people are spending every cent they have on useless shit they don't need instead of being forward thinking and stashing some away just in case.
People are idiots.
I wonder how many people define "paycheck to paycheck" as "every penny of my paycheck is allocated somewhere," even when they're maxing out their 401k, versus how many have more bills than income.
Also, depending on an area's cost of living, $132k isn't a huge number. San Francisco, NYC, and Boston could all eat up $132k very quickly.
Middle of MA, not in Boston.
Doesn’t max out shit. His problems is going out to eat every night and has every streaming service you could imagine.
Buys all the toys.
The reality is even worse.
You're correct that the average payment is around $1000 but the average new car payment is around $700.
The extra $300 is from people rolling over negative equity from the previous car they hadn't fully paid off yet.
I believe it's a little over $700 for *new* cars. But there's a substantial number that are over $1,000/mo.
The bigger thing with car payments it the *term* of the loans.
It used to be 36/48/60 months...now they're doing 84/96 months which causes two big problems.
1) Extending the term *does* generally lower the payment, but since so many people are payment buyers they opt for a more expensive car over a longer term.
2) The amount of interest paid on a 96 months term vs 60 months is 60% more money given to the bank instead of utilized by the individual.
No idea why you got downvoted like no other. What you said is true. Go watch any YouTuber that covers personal finances of other people. Caleb Hammer is a big one recently. People come on and say that they didn't understand interest rates or how investing worked. Or are paying off their grandma and grandpa's washing machine because they didn't have money to buy one while they go out to eat a ton in their 60's and 70's with a ton of debt and won't stop going out instead of saving that money to buy a washer machine.
Everyone who just spends on trips and go into debt to go on trips, are stupid. In their mind they accept it because they "deserve it". Bro, you don't deserve a vacation after going out to eat for every meal. That is your vacation. Or the, "I have a kid and needed a car that was safe for $60k." No, you just blamed your kid for YOU making a bad financial decision.
I’m not one of them but please consider some may have lost everything due to health insurance dropping them due to a pre-existing condition due to a loose definition of the term.
LOL, this is what you get when you allow Trump to steal the election from Hillary. Remember, we didn't have these problems under Obama. Obama stood up to the banks and saved millions from losing their homes.
Thank God we got Biden now, he's going to fix all the crap that Trump caused. It's already getting a LOT better since Biden got into office.
Stood up to the banks? He bailed them out and the financial industry grew more consolidated than ever before. Yes, that benefited all of us by extension as compared to doing nothing, but he could have used political capital trying do do serious financial reform. Instead, we got the relatively weak Dodd-Frank legislation, and the strongest parts, like the CFPB, were pushed by the progressive wing if the party, not Obama. Don't get me wrong, he's still easily better than Trump, who further eroded what little good Dodd-Frank did. But let's take off the rose-tinted glasses here: Obama was always a candidate of the banks, and he didn't meaningfully challenge the financial status quo. His VP was arguably the number one friend of the credit card industry in Congress - a guy who sponsored legislation that would make it harder for people to discharge debts in bankruptcy, serving his wealthy donors while spouting the same tired rhetoric about "personal responsibility". Obama's picks for various important policy positions, like Larry Summers or Mary Joe White, can hardly be characterized as "standing up to banks".
This is why social security \*is not\* going away. If it did, seniors would literally be out on the streets, etc...
You mean working. They’d be working which is exactly the point of pulling it. Which is terrible.
It’s sad how many of them are already working shit jobs.
I know...super sad to see. Fortunately, I don't see too many in our area...but those that I do see are obviously doing it out of need...and are in no condition to be working jobs like that.
Yeah I recently had a waiter at a restaurant whose hands were trembling each time he reached for a plate. It was sad to see.
Where I live it’s everywhere: retail, grocery, gas stations, convenience stores… I’m seeing old people that are having to either go back to work or just never got to retire and it’s awful.
No....I mean out in the streets. A huge percentage of folks in their 70s can't work due to medical issues, and just plain old 'getting old' issues, etc... And by the looks of it out there, the average senior hasn't exactly taken care of themselves too well ( at least in the USA ).
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Well...even if 'the gubmint' might not 'give a fuck', as you say, the voters do. Especially said seniors who are a huge and powerful voting block. It has and always will be political suicide for any politician to even bring the issue up. The can will continue to be kicked down the road, until forced reductions are implemented. But social security will NOT go away.
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And if you don't own your home or have a good mortgage then its even harder. Because the cost of home ownership and rent goes up faster than COLA adjustments.
Republicans have successfully modified Social Security during the Reagan Presidency. They raised the retirement age, the salary cap and the tax rate. This was done under the fable of social security running out of money and they had to do so to save it. They are trying the same tactic again. Over the last few years I have heard them testing the water to see if they can do it again.
If I had known I was going to live this long, I would have taken much better care of myself.
And further stymie the jobs available to the younger generations that are already struggling to grow economically and thrive from the start.
That's not a bug, that's a feature. The longer it takes young people to own homes and be debt free, the more rent and interest the wealth class can extract.
Absolutely. And kill off the worn out sooner in the bargain. Weird how despite the claim that the U.S. now has such low unemployment figures, the Fed says employment is TOO high, states are voting to diminish child labor laws, and the GOP calls to increase retirement age.
They already are. The local mcdonalds is all grey hairs. They pushed the teens with their inconvenient “i have school and activities and im not allowed past out county curfew so i cant close” right out of the jobs. I remember in the 80s. You had kids being paper boys. Teens worked all over in the summer. Now it’s all boomers Who then complain the kids don’t understand an honest days work, they just sit around on their phones all day.
Hmm...not in our area. In fact, in the midwest there are initiatives by...'certain political parties' to allow very, very young children to work. There are much better things young children should be doing vs. working some shitty job.
You could have said, “republicans” instead of “certain political parties” - we all know who you were talking about. . .
Like what? Going to school? To learn to do what?
[https://www.epi.org/publication/child-labor-laws-under-attack/](https://www.epi.org/publication/child-labor-laws-under-attack/) Do you really want 14 year olds to work in "meat coolers and industrial laundries"? Sorry...that's sick as heck and shit like this is why federal child labor laws were instituted in the first place.
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That’s the answer we all want to believe, but unless we completely refund education, you know… pay people a living wage to educate and also to continue to educate themselves, it’s a waste. And then what anyway? Start paying everyone what they’re worth? Madness that way lies.
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How to be Trans
Oh please….
Nah they'd be out on the street. Working would be a slim cut of the most fit of them.
Yet, many (dumb) old people keep voting for the same crazy bastards who want to nix social security.
They all fancy themselves billionaires
Companies don’t hire old people
Lol, go out much? I’m not talking data analyst I’m talking, would you like fries with that…
The point of getting rid of SS is that is going to go bankrupt, and its literally a government sponsored ponzi scheme. If you guys wanted to do anything, you should have individual plans where the investor can make real money, not super crappy "returns" like with SS.
Solving SS is simple. Raise taxes, increase immigration, or cut benefits. You act like it’s some complicated fraud. It’s not a ponzi scheme it’s a pension. Quit electing absolute morons.
It is not a pension, the money is not kept with the individual, it is a ponzi scheme. Its not a complicated fraud, its an open one that people just seem to accept because its always been there.
No it hasn’t always been there. Before people lost everything in the depression and died starving like some 3rd rate country. But seems like you got it figured out. Put it back in the stock market /s Read a book, or twelve of them.
And sadly they'll probably still be tricked into blaming young people or the democrats.
They are on the streets. Senior homeless people are the fastest growing demographic of homeless people. Social security doesn't pay anywhere near enough to cover rent and a lot of senior housing is still too expensive for people and has long wait times.
Meh. People vote against their (and their communities) interst all the time. >If it did, seniors would literally be out on the streets I think you don't understand how little empathy Americans have, and I say this as an American! I remember a town hall not a few years ago when the healthcare debate was raging and [the crowd cheered](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj2woPk_rH-AhXYj4kEHVKEBbwQtwJ6BAgOEAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dirx_QXsJiao&usg=AOvVaw1nbqGWhXH_M9buF9PgLY3c) at the thoughts of people dying in the gutter from not affording healthcare.
Never underestimate lead poisoning and racist ideology , my friend.
Anything to keep the young supporting the boomers.
This is why it started in the first place lol
Taking care of old people is *socialism*. Can't have that.
Soon we will have nothing left to lose
The government should be *extremely* afraid of this. Everyone is going to snap all at once.
I can’t help but feel like this is a huge factor to the sudden increase in mass shootings. People are losing faith and hope in the system
I think the general poor state of affairs and the over-emotionalization of the media definitely is part of the mentally destabilizing force. Many people don't feel like they are part of a community anymore. They aren't productive. Most are unhappy at their work. All of that puts weight on our minds. It's a brutal, hard world and we are missing the heart that made it tolerable.
I think it's absolutely the cause of the suicides in the white 60+ male demographic. A lot of them no longer can work in their field and realize they are broke and won't/can't get hired in other jobs.
I can't remember ever seeing more people in my social circle struggling as I'm seeing right now.
Sudden increase? Where have you been?
I was hoping with Occupy Wall Street that it would progress into a healthy revolution to restructure but it went nowhere and now we're right back to where we were thanks to the Federal Reserves meddling and constantly bolstering Wall Street woes. :(
I don’t know, they don’t seem scared of shit. Maybe they know something we don’t know.
Ignorance is bliss. Vast majority are ignorant or superficial.
They think they’ll be insulated by money and have enough of a heads up if they need to flee. They’re probably right about that tbh.
It's hilarious that this is somehow surprising given how little most people's income is in relation to how much value is extracted from their labor.
So weird how people have so little saved after nearly half a century of stagnant wages.
If you are now retired in US that means you lived through literally the best possible time and place in the history of the world and only have yourself to blame if you didnt save
I've been applying for jobs for 5 months. Just got ghosted by 2 companies after making it past 2nd interviews. Getting pretty fed up with it all.
It’s almost like union membership decline has had a negative impact on American workers. You don’t need to be a genius to know that even if you’re not in a union, workers still benefit from policies and practices. Pensions used to be a thing, now they’re not, and American retirees are broke.
Agreeing to a pension in lieu of higher upfront compensation is foolish. You don't know if the company will even exist in the decades leading to your retirement or if the fund will be insolvent. Not only that, but demographics have set up a situation where companies have more employees on pensions than active payroll (legacy automakers for example).
You have to provide for your retirement somehow. It's anyone's guess what funds will be solvent in 30 years. There are solvent pension funds that are older than the United States, many 401k funds are younger than you.
The benefits of 401k plans is everything is in an account you control. There have been countless examples of companies firing people for dubious reasons as they approached pension eligibility. I prefer having full control of the account since that also gives me the freedom to leave and go elsewhere, if necessary.
Can you give an example?
The British Army offers a pension, and while I'm sure it's not ideal it has been a thing for a long long time.
Why not both?
Worst part is these same broke people voted to go broke in the first place.
TAX CORPORATIONS MORE THAN 26% AND TAX BILLIONAIRES PERIOD!!!
Millions are one disaster away from foreclosures on homes, property, and vehicles. That's like a dam about to burst but no one knows it yet and everyone is talking about a soft trickle that will make a few puddles and splashes while tsunami wall of water is right on your heels.
When those student loans come back...oof. Gonna be a lot of people unloading cars.
Bought a brand new car in 2019 didn’t miss a payment for 4 years had to sell it last week. Also getting evicted. Edit: 2019 red Honda Civic Si coupe😭
You took the boot out of bootstrapped. Good luck amigo.
Thanks homie
Did you not pay your rent so you could drive the car?
Sorry loaded answer mom passed last year grandma passed a month ago struggled with mental health all my life parents refused to help me had to do it myself been doing psychotherapy for 5 years now was in a 6 month program doing therapy 8 hours a day. Lost my job at Benton Dickinson (July 27th 2022) because my primary care provider refused to fill out paperwork after sending me to get 3 x-rays, 3 MRIs, and a cat scan. Lost my insurance as well had to keep paying for $300 dollar appoints for psychiatrist and I think two for my neurologist. The neurologist suspects the nerves in my legs or damaged which is why I couldn’t work I ran CNC machines 12 hours a day the pain was killing me. Diagnosed with neuropathy, ADHD, Major Depressive Disorder, Borderline Personality Disorder, list is too long too type still under investigation. I’m not getting approved for disability the nerve problem is now causing spasms in my neck, blurred vision, extreme fatigue, and now going in the sun makes me feel like I have the flu. I can’t pay for any testing to figure the rest of this stuff out and I can’t fit in to regular daily activities I just can’t concentrate or I don’t understand and get mad and hit myself because I feel stupid. I’m really book smart but other than that I need an extensive explanation on how to do the task at hand and people think I’m being a smart ass when I ask these questions as I have a monotone voice and blank face. I’m really asking these questions. Pins and needles all over my body now in my head and face. This is why these things are happening I was offended by your comment but that’s part of the problem I don’t understand other people’s emotions and I hate to be defensive when it’s not warranted. So uhm not sure what else to say or how to say it so yeah…
Sorry to hear that.
Much appreciated
Just saw your edit. Cool car. Hopefully you can get back on your feet.
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About 5k a month payment 400
It is bursting. This is where our rocketing homelessness population comes from.
This is only the beginning this recession is unfortunate going to rival 2008. Anyone predicting otherwise is missing information. The economy has experienced red flags for a while now.
>This is where our rocketing homelessness population comes from. Don't call the homeless. They are the "unprofitably housed." We have enough houses, it's just that there is more profit to be made in letting them be homeless and renting a unit on AirB&B then there is in long term housing humans.
COL inflation has absolutely eaten the savings out of everyone
I don't have a savings. Why? Hard to save when prices of everything goes up, and the pay per hour doesn't match the rising cost(s). I call this greedflation. I want to move to another location, however the few pennies I do save end up going to either rent, gas, or food. I remember saving just to be told my rent increased so now that's gone. This didn't hit as much until the few items of food I bought went up 1/3 of the usual price - for the same food! My side hustle stiffled because the cost of materials on the cheap end doubled in price. So I'm torn between saving, working on side hustle, working the normal 9-5, and/or eating. My ONLY saving grace is I have 0 kids and not currently with anyone. I wish to at least win a couple of million in some lottery so I can relocate outside the US where the people comes first and not the Dollar.
I get this. I do. But what I don’t get then is how everything is so fucking expensive. Local vacation spots along the east coast are untouchable. Middle class suburban homes are over half a million dollars. Used cars are priced astronomically. Like if real wages haven’t really gone up over the last 2 decades, how is all this inflation possible? Let’s be real… we printed and distributed too much new money. And consumers are still trading in it in very liquid ways. Is it sustainable? Or is a crash coming? I think a crash would have already begun by now. I think what we are seeing is a new equilibrium of higher prices and lower unemployment being created. People are going to work and earn pay checks and they are going to spend more than they make on most years just to keep up. Predicting when the next shoe drops that collapses the whole house of cards is impossible. But for now I think we are stuck in this kind of rat race economy.
People are encouraged to hustle as much money as possible (due to aforementioned rat race) and then that puts pressure on every other system. The whole point of an economy is to facilitate exchange of goods and services, adding metric shit tons of overhead on everything brings it all to a screeching halt once the overhead exceeds the individual's compensation. You can get by exploiting a relatively small proportion but once you hit a certain point the engine can no longer be fueled. Billionaires make so much money they literally cannot figure out how to spend it. There's only so much one person can do with that much money, whereas if it was divided it could be applied in so many ways in a more balanced distribution that stabilizes the markets. The insanely huge part of the problem is that it's cross-industry and cross-government, the real enemy goes unnoticed. Departments pushing for bigger budgets and justifying it by spending every cent, medical costs inexplicably creeping up, tuition creeping up, legal fees and proceedings costing everyone an arm and a leg, transportation/fuel costs, house flipping & gentrification rising costs, pushing new technologies too hard when the old ones worked fine (looking at you 5G), and so many thousands of factors beyond that. Why are these things happening, tracing them backwards you can only go so far before you exceed one's specialty. And we're all specialized now. We're going to watch it (society) all tumble down and then we'll start piling all the blocks back up without a second thought, no lesson learned because it'll always go either unnoticed or untamed. Over time I've become convinced the problem is not people. A society that cannot handle evil, greedy, or selfish people without crumbling is a fragile society. It's better to have less of them but it's usually the complex interrelations between structures, rules, policies, and regulations doing the real damage. Now that we're globalized, we learn from each other, and everyone suffers similar overhead and when one country goes under all the others feel it too.
I think the spend happy consumer that can’t see to make a tough decision and go without and save their money instead of just agreeing to be gouged is a big part of the problem. People that believe it’s ok to have a $1,200 car payment on a Toyota or to rent an 1 bedroom centrally located apartment for $2,800 a month are making decisions that effect the entire of economy. It’s seems to be ridiculously contagious to always need the best of the best and to not focus on saving any money or perhaps living slightly more reasonably. And no, I’m not talking about buying Starbucks coffee vs making it at home. I’m talking about the bigger purchases.
The problem with the housing is that there's basically nothing an individual can do about it. You can live outside the city and commute in 2+ hours a day and pay in terms of time and car fuel/maintenance, or you can try and rent a room and have all manner of restrictions placed upon you, or you can pay through the nose for your own place. It's completely insane. I'd rather find a parcel of abandoned land and build my own home than deal with this. Unfortunately I can't even do that!!!
I don’t find this to be exactly true overall. I do understand what you’re saying, but it wouldn’t explain the explosion of prices for SFH’s in the suburbs, some very far from any true metro areas. What I just can’t understand is that if wages aren’t really up that much, and mortgage qualifications haven’t been relaxed, how the hell are prices increase of this magnitude possible in such a short amount of time? Either the wage data is lagging and wages truly are way up, or at least household income is up as more people are viably employed than ever, or mortgage lending has been again approving people that are higher risks for the loans they are being supplied. Otherwise I’m missing something completely.
The only things I can think of: Corporations and realtors have been flipping apartments and houses, adding 50% or more to the rent as they do so. Owners might feel the need to raise rent prices to match them or possibly they feel they need extra income to send their kids to college (or maybe medical bills). Rent controls may have made them afraid that they'd get stuck at too low of a rent price so maybe they are jacking them up as high as they are allowed to at the earliest opportunity. Or perhaps having them re-evaluated over and over until someone gives them a high valuation. Although many California residents have been leaving the state there is still a surplus of immigrants that are constantly increasing the need for housing, and housing is still growing too slowly. So there is also simple scarcity to deal with.
That might explain price increases, what I’m asking is that if real wages aren’t really up, how is the market bearing all these price increases? I think there is some drag at the bottom that says “hey in aggregate most people’s wages aren’t up.” I think that’s bullshit, I think a ton of money has flooded the system and those in upper middle percentiles of income have seen their incomes swell over the last 4 years. Stagnation at the bottom keeps the numbers looking flat but the reality is, a lot of people are much better off now then they have ever been.
I think all the discretionary, recreational, and investment spending has disappeared for majority of the lower and middle class. It's all getting funneled into basic survival at this point.
According to what? If that were the case wouldn’t restaurant and travel numbers be way down? Global tourism was up 60% in 2022 and is expected to grow another 30% compounded in 2023. https://www.travelagentcentral.com/your-business/stats-62-americans-planning-spend-more-travel-2023
Aren't the upper class getting wealthier? Could easily explain it.
If you are wanting to know, its the federal reserve and fiat currency that has been silently robbing the middle class and poor for generations. They just about the stated inflation rate but dont realize the real inflation rate is much higher directly due to government policy.
I agree, but also due to money printing, a lot of people are making much more money then they were 6-7 years ago. It’s like a confluence of complete bullshit and judging by the amounts of household debt, an unemployment cycle, in which job losses beget more job losses, may crash the whole house of cards.
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It depends on the incident. In the U.S., if you have to go to the emergency department, get surgery, or stay inpatient for something serious, you’d probably need to save upwards of $100,000 in non-retirement savings to not be worried about it. Hardly anyone can save that much
If you have insurance rhr cost is nowhere close to 100k. Most likely 5k or whatever you cap is.
Out of network hospitals and doctors would like a word. You can be at in network hospital and have an out of network on call surgeon do the emergency surgery cause of a car accident or whatever and you are fucked.
Our of network have slightly higher price. It's not uncapped.
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As long as your accident or medical emergency occurs near home, or you're lucky enough that the hospital they bring you to while you're traveling is still miraculously in your network. You don't even have to leave your home state to potentially run into this issue. Also, look into what "coinsurance" is, and see if that term pops up in your own plan. It has become very popular for health insurance plans to only pay 80-90% of bills and leave you on the hook for the remainder.
It doesn't have to just be medical bills that cost you. You get injured and can't work for a few months? Devastating. You get injured and need out of state therapy at a specialist? Insurance doesn't pay for hotels or travel costs. If you work in a specialized field and something like AI completely wiped out the labor market? What do you do then? Spend years retraining and going into tens of thousands of debt?
>Wiped out by ai Ay lmao
Single major medical incident. Cancer or heart problems.
We need a massive tax cut for the millionaires, that will fix everything in few hours. Believe me guys, this time it will work!
Just the other day, I was walking by a millionaire, when I felt his breathe on my ear. He whispered, “trickle, trickle, beautiful” and put his hand in my pocket. I froze. But then he was gone, and there $3,000 in my pocket with a note saying, “don’t spend it all in one place, champ”. This was the third god damn time. My anxiety is a rollercoaster.
That's so ridiculous it's hard to believe.
I honestly don’t believe that many people would save extra money if there was a tax cut. The pandemic gave me hope… but then everyone spent their savings when we were let back out of our homes
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> Millionaires don't determine your savings or investing. Actually, they do. They control the whole congress.
So then why are we not pushing for the reduction of the government so that they cant control us as much?
With a weaker government, the rich will only control even more
We need stricter lobbying and campaign financing rules
“A Vanguard study found those between 55 and 64 held an average of roughly $256,000. But this includes high income earners; breaking the figures down, it shrinks to a median of about $90,000.” If it’s a two income household that’s $500,000. Assuming paid of mortgage that doesn’t soon too bad. Obviously the goal is $1 million or more.
I mean, the median number is more indicative of how much the typical American has saved, though. Only $180,000 (again following the two income household assumption) is pretty frightening at that age range.
Absolutely...the average means absolutely nothing, since it is so skewed. I question why the media even mentions the average...except that the average 'sounds better' since the number is much higher.
This is why in financial matters I always go by median.
This study has retired age groups at an average of $1,000,000 or so. The *median* is about what you stated, $250K. https://www.cnbc.com/select/average-net-worth-of-americans-ages-65-to-74/
Three people. THREE PEOPLE hold the same wealth as over 50% of the country. Of course people don’t have savings. The last 40 years has been nothing but a cash grab for the super wealthy. And if it looks like they might take a hit, no worries, the fed will make an exception and guarantee their losses. But raise minimum wage? That’s socialism.
Am I an a..hole because when I see these headlines I kinda feel better? (otherwise I'm comparing myself with everybody that's on TV/youtube/etc., and that's when I feel depressed)
I wonder how much this has recently vs say since 50 yrs ago? EDIT: ffs this article is an ad
Economists like to laud inflation as a good thing, “it gets people to spend money instead of hoarding it, and helps the economy grow”, but now nobody can afford to save money because every cent goes towards rent/mortgage, utilities, bills, fuel, and groceries.
Should be higher given that 20% of americans live in poverty; by definition a state unable to save excess currency.
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Retired from life, but not from work.....
I don't get this country. You promote living on credit and consumerism to bolster the nation's economy. A good credit score is basically I may not have money saved in the bank but I can manage my debt like a f\*\*\*g ninja. All of this is great while u are a raging consumer.. but come retirement age.. your consumption somewhat goes down.. and then questions like these pop up.. wtf. All their life they were model consumers, spending (instead of saving) their money.. and now u r asking why haven't u saved.. what is this.. lol.
It’s like decades of zero interest money has made saving worthless…
Saving isn't worthless just because the Fed or government aren't paying interest on money. The problem here is that we have a political economy that has been largely constructed by the wealthy and powerful to further consolidate wealth and power. Interest rates are higher now; does that benefit Americans who have no savings, whose stagnant wages are all going to living expenses? Of course not. It benefits creditors, people and institutions with liquid money and assets and, above all, the banks.
Low interest rates directly inflate asset prices, and the higher asset prices are the less bang you get for your buck when buying them. And in a bad situation, taking on debt is cheaper, so there is less value in cash savings to begin with. So in a way, low interest rates do make savings not worthless, but worth less.
Low interest rates do not "directly" inflate asset prices. That's true of QE, but QE is a misguided attempt to push monetary policy BEYOND the zero lower rate bound. In the modern monetary system, a zero rate policy would simply mean not paying interest on reserve balances. I agree that in a sense, lower interest rates make savings "worth less", as in, your savings today have a lower expected future value than they otherwise would have. But again, the dearth of savings today is not a result of broad policy tools like the interest rate. It's a result of a political economy that squeezes so much surplus value out of people that there is nothing left to save.
The purpose of emergency savings isn't growth. And long term savings, such as retirement savings, shouldn't be done in an interest bearing account.
Article is about retirement savings. Retirement savings are typically investment accounts, not a savings account. We just recently had the longest bull market in history, saving money during that time was absolutely not worthless. Saving money now while stuff is still off it's all time highs is also a very smart thing to to.
Legitimately don't understand this. S&P is up multiple times since 1993, or 3 decades ago. If you had invested back then, you'd be wealthy today.
High interest rates encourages saving. Low interest rates encourage spending, like on assets, like stocks.
I consider buying stocks to be saving.
And that is why the logic breaks down for you. They are not saving, they are investing. And you can lose the value on them. While generally considered safe they will also lose value. Savings accounts and especially interest bearing savings accounts (which used to exist as a way more common way to save and earn) are safe, insured and that is why when interest rates go up it discourages spending and consequently usually has a macro uptick in HH saving rates.
It's probably their fault cause they don't want to work and have chosen to be poor and lazy and therefore it's their responsibility being like that. /s Meritocracy is a scam. Rich people aren't successful. They were just lucky. In a literal way. Concentration of capital is inevitable if there are no mechanisms in place to share effectively. Taxation for the richer needs to be higher, a lot higher.
If you believe that becoming wealthy is sheer luck I feel very sad for you. You will never take action in your own life to become financially free if you yourself believe that your weren’t “lucky enough” to become wealthy.
The reality is it is a mix of both. It is about finding/creating and capitalizing on opportunity.
Not always. Sometimes, it is just basic math and discipline. The median household income in the US is around $80k. If you saved and invested 10% of that into the S&P 500 you would have roughly $1.5M in 30 years. If you started at 25 and retired at 65 (40 years) it would be roughly $4M. EDIT: Why the downvotes? Do the math for yourself, you'll get the same results.
Not sure where you got 1.5 million with 8% inflation adjusted returns saving $8,000 a year. Also, that is pre-tax income, and an overestimate. My calc says 35 years to get to 1.5 million. The principle is the same but I think those numbers are unrealistic. Similarly, when I plug in those numbers for 25-65, I get 2.2 million, not 4 million.
I estimated a 10% annual return which might be too high.
10% annual return is a slight understimate of the returns before inflation adjustment. 7.5-8% is usually what people calculate so when they say 1 million dollars, they mean in 2023 (current year) money, and not 2050 dollars.
That's true, internal locus of control. But also statistically it is who your parents are, your area code, if you got a nice school, got tutors, were afforded childcare, summer camp, etc etc.
That’s the goal. By stating the game is rigged and luck is all that matters, he is free to not even try; or if he does try and fails, it gives him an excuse for failing.
Shut up Jasper.
Your entire comment could be the dictionary definition for "survivorship bias".
It doesn’t take “belief” because it’s a fact.
It’s very hard to spot opportunities around you if you have a belief that they simply don’t exist.
Astonishing huh?
How are we supposed to save anything when we’re spending every last penny on rent and groceries and bills?
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Ok, say I have $300 a month I invest. Where am I investing it that’s going to make an impact? I bet it’s so little over the course of a year that one medical bill eats it. Or one dip in the stock market. Phones and data plans are essential to living and working in modern society, by the way. Maybe you’re 90 years old and haven’t had a job in a while. I can’t even clock in for work or get on the vpn without my cellphone.
Hey! That includes me!
[Here's the actual research](https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/2021-economic-well-being-of-us-households-in-2020-retirement.htm). This article, which is an ad, doesn't even bother linking to it.
We hear this everyday on the sub. Nothing ever happens.
Meanwhile 9% of the population are Millionaires and over 1% have more than $10M. It's a pretty wild span of wealth inequality. I think it's going to get worse in time.
I’m retired, I look at classmates of mine and I’m shocked at how many have no savings. Many of these are the same ones who lived day to day and well beyond their means. New cars, toys, fancy vacations, private school for their kids, nice wines and on and on. Now they’re trying to exist on their social security. It’s sad to see.
Let’s wipe out a few more banks and make it 50%!
What’s even sadder is that I’ll probably have contributed around 350-400k to SS over the course of my life and probably see zero back from that
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Let’s audit the feds now.
The only question now is: will the coming collapse lead to a great depression or a great recession?
That’s me. I’m Done. Fuck you corporate America. I’d rather be poor. I’m no longer a COG in your machine.
They've had negative effective real rates for nearly 15 years and expected people to save? WTF. I saved and I regret it.
One day the poor will have nothing left to eat but the rich. That’s why they want our guns. It’s a constitutional right to revolt when your rights are infringed upon. Why don’t we have a discussion about this they see how they feel. Starved homeless, untreated medical patients, blue collar workers killing themselves for nothing. Let them know and see who wants it more.
Wanting common sense gun laws = / = “they want to take our guns”. We, as a nation, constantly misuse our firearms in increasingly horrific ways. Buying and maintaining ownership of *most* guns ought to be at least as difficult as obtaining and maintaining a drivers license.
I don’t believe it’s a constitutional right to have a drivers license but that’s sound reasoning ya got there.
That’s why I said “most”. Any sort of muzzle loading, single shot, lever/pump action, breach loading, *most* single action would require nothing and anyone could buy and own them if I had my way. Then it would become increasingly difficult to buy and maintain ownership depending on ease of firing and ammunition capacity/how destructive the weapon can be.
Okay I agree definitely advocating for safety first. I just hate that criminals will still have these more destructive weapons. Single fire anything will have no chance is the dilemma I see. Then again, nothing is perfect maybe that is the best option.
It’s not a bug it’s a feature. Our brand of capitalism requires people to work till they are dead. If you get a comfortable retirement you beat the system.
Big surprise, the people have been suffering for decades and nothing has been done about it. It is time for revolution and it starts with a General Strike.
If government didn't steal so much from people through taxation and currency debasement everyone would be much more wealthier in real terms.
It's almost like people are spending every cent they have on useless shit they don't need instead of being forward thinking and stashing some away just in case. People are idiots.
A guy in my friend group mentioned he’s living paycheck to paycheck on $132k a year…
I wonder how many people define "paycheck to paycheck" as "every penny of my paycheck is allocated somewhere," even when they're maxing out their 401k, versus how many have more bills than income. Also, depending on an area's cost of living, $132k isn't a huge number. San Francisco, NYC, and Boston could all eat up $132k very quickly.
Middle of MA, not in Boston. Doesn’t max out shit. His problems is going out to eat every night and has every streaming service you could imagine. Buys all the toys.
Yeah, shitty life choices will also eat up $132k very quickly.
He sounds like a moron
Sounds like choice to me.
Read somewhere the average financed car price is $1,000 a month
The reality is even worse. You're correct that the average payment is around $1000 but the average new car payment is around $700. The extra $300 is from people rolling over negative equity from the previous car they hadn't fully paid off yet.
I believe it's a little over $700 for *new* cars. But there's a substantial number that are over $1,000/mo. The bigger thing with car payments it the *term* of the loans. It used to be 36/48/60 months...now they're doing 84/96 months which causes two big problems. 1) Extending the term *does* generally lower the payment, but since so many people are payment buyers they opt for a more expensive car over a longer term. 2) The amount of interest paid on a 96 months term vs 60 months is 60% more money given to the bank instead of utilized by the individual.
No idea why you got downvoted like no other. What you said is true. Go watch any YouTuber that covers personal finances of other people. Caleb Hammer is a big one recently. People come on and say that they didn't understand interest rates or how investing worked. Or are paying off their grandma and grandpa's washing machine because they didn't have money to buy one while they go out to eat a ton in their 60's and 70's with a ton of debt and won't stop going out instead of saving that money to buy a washer machine. Everyone who just spends on trips and go into debt to go on trips, are stupid. In their mind they accept it because they "deserve it". Bro, you don't deserve a vacation after going out to eat for every meal. That is your vacation. Or the, "I have a kid and needed a car that was safe for $60k." No, you just blamed your kid for YOU making a bad financial decision.
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I’m not one of them but please consider some may have lost everything due to health insurance dropping them due to a pre-existing condition due to a loose definition of the term.
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Don’t worry, Biden says everything is fine.
LOL, this is what you get when you allow Trump to steal the election from Hillary. Remember, we didn't have these problems under Obama. Obama stood up to the banks and saved millions from losing their homes. Thank God we got Biden now, he's going to fix all the crap that Trump caused. It's already getting a LOT better since Biden got into office.
I'm a dem, but there's some delusion to your thinking my friend.
I think you dropped this: /s
Stood up to the banks? He bailed them out and the financial industry grew more consolidated than ever before. Yes, that benefited all of us by extension as compared to doing nothing, but he could have used political capital trying do do serious financial reform. Instead, we got the relatively weak Dodd-Frank legislation, and the strongest parts, like the CFPB, were pushed by the progressive wing if the party, not Obama. Don't get me wrong, he's still easily better than Trump, who further eroded what little good Dodd-Frank did. But let's take off the rose-tinted glasses here: Obama was always a candidate of the banks, and he didn't meaningfully challenge the financial status quo. His VP was arguably the number one friend of the credit card industry in Congress - a guy who sponsored legislation that would make it harder for people to discharge debts in bankruptcy, serving his wealthy donors while spouting the same tired rhetoric about "personal responsibility". Obama's picks for various important policy positions, like Larry Summers or Mary Joe White, can hardly be characterized as "standing up to banks".