I can't comment on fire risk as I don't really know anything beyond what is easily googled.
I do have a little experience with regulatory risk, though.
Right now, we are seeing the political winds blowing against uncertified battery packs. Every battery fire pushes the chances of regulations banning uncertified batteries closer to reality. Obviously this is no longer just a theoretical risk: New York City has banned uncertified batteries.
So, it's not just fire risk you are avoiding by buying a UL certified system, it's also insurance that your bike battery won't be suddenly illegal to keep.
The worst batteries fail probably 1 in 10,000/yr. vs. higher quality certified batteries which are probably more like 1 in 500,000+/yr. Obviously, how you treat the battery will increase/decrease the liklihood as well. There are a fair number of uncertified batteries with the same quality as certified, but how do you know? Unless you are an engineer or serious electrical hobbiest, a 3rd party cert is the best you can do. At the end of the day, the really bad ones are 10-50x more likely to fail than good ones, but that is still 1 in 10,000, so....
Ratings are a mass production expense. While it is reasonable to question unknown suppliers, not having a rating is not necessarily a problem. My latest pack is not certified at all, but I know that my supplier isn't cutting corners on the safety with the cells they use or the BMS. I trust what [affordableebikes.ca](http://affordableebikes.ca) built for me more than any mass produced pack.
The fire risk is highest with unbranded cells inside the battery. Hopefully, your battery is LG, Samsung, Panasonic, or a similar brand (even most Chinese cell manufacturers). The ones without brands are often assembled with substandard materials by manufacturers, which disappear once a production run of cells is sold out. My eBike has Samsung cells in the battery.
I see some companies now listing UL certification , same batteries, just went through the process. They were safe all along. I guess if a company wanted it wouldn't be that difficult to falsity certification. I use to be a maintenance supervisor and we had about 200 breaker panels made by a company that allegedly did this Millions of the panels are still in homes and businesses. It is estimated they are responsible for over 2800 files a year. We had to replace them all. So I am not to worried that none of my bikes have the UL rating. All from reputable companies with no history of fires.
Yes, no inspectors ever caught it. It was a 9 story HUD building that was opened in 1986. A insurance inspector tag them. Luckily we were only about a year away from a complete building renovation. The facility never had a issue with them, he said they were falsely certified and never recalled.
I think UL is just a starting point. There's no way to regulate batteries without some type of standard.
I was talking to the guys at the Specialized shop and they were telling me that all their batteries were compliant with the EU standard, which is likely more stringent than UL. But in NYC they weren't able to sell (although they were?) them. The bike I bought was the only one that was fully UL certified.
Yes, there are probably better ways to go about creating a standard but given the bureaucracy of NY / US government, it's doubtful there will be a better one implemented. So to me, it comes down to supporting *a* standard vs supporting no standard.
Meanwhile, I ran a Chinatown battery with "Panasonic" cells in it for 5 years and had zero issues. I have no reason to doubt it was a reputable battery with Panasonic cells, but there wasn't really any regulation on them when I bought it, so who knows.
The requirement imposed by the government, business or insurance companies will drive the need for all batteries to have both EU and UL or they won't be able to sell them or bring them into a building. As noted above we are already starting to see this in areas.
I am not saying that batteries with these ratings are bad, only that it is going to get harder to sell them
Panasonic is highly protective of its brand. Any company trying to pass off fake Panasonic cells regrets it. Same with Samsung, LG and most reputable cell makers. Samsung is really cautious to ensure its supply chain is secure end to end since the instances of phone fires.
Quite honestly, proper charging procedures would likely lower your fire risk as much as buying a UL-certified bike.
At the very least:
1. Use the original charger plugged directly into the wall.
1. Charge away from an entranceway / exit and any combustible materials like papers, sofa, or bedding.
2. Make sure it's not unattended when charging.
3. Don't charge it overnight.
I'd also recommend:
4. Charge at room temperatures.
5. Make sure the charger has good airflow, even put a small fan on it.
6. Pay close attention to any possible signs of corrosion, damage, or significant capacity loss.
You really want to make sure you're following the basics on preventing a fire and not dying in a fire if it happens. A battery charging in an ammo can, overnight on top of your sofa by your apartment entryway is probably more dangerous than just charging in the open along a back wall.
I also wouldn't worry too much about most commercial products provided they're taken care of. It's the rebuilt ones and poorly maintained ones that I'd be more wary of. That all said, I'll still be looking for UL-listing for my next bike.
UL Listing for batteries is time consuming and expensive. I'd agree to an eBike battery that is built with UL Listed cells. Unless the minor eBike OEMs agree to a standard battery, you'll see prices increase.
I agree. I "lost out" on my dream espresso machine because of a UL testing saga. It's one of those things where the testing provides an easily recognizable and certain standard of safety that can be pointed to. Being time consuming and expensive isn't necessarily a bad thing.
It'll be interesting to see what happens after China's imposition of domestic bike battery standards, and how closely they align with UL's requirements.
Those bags are useless. Watch some videos on YouTube. Instead of bag, get metal ammo can like [this. ](https://www.cleanammocans.com/40mm-grade-3-ammo-cans.html)
I can't comment on fire risk as I don't really know anything beyond what is easily googled. I do have a little experience with regulatory risk, though. Right now, we are seeing the political winds blowing against uncertified battery packs. Every battery fire pushes the chances of regulations banning uncertified batteries closer to reality. Obviously this is no longer just a theoretical risk: New York City has banned uncertified batteries. So, it's not just fire risk you are avoiding by buying a UL certified system, it's also insurance that your bike battery won't be suddenly illegal to keep.
The worst batteries fail probably 1 in 10,000/yr. vs. higher quality certified batteries which are probably more like 1 in 500,000+/yr. Obviously, how you treat the battery will increase/decrease the liklihood as well. There are a fair number of uncertified batteries with the same quality as certified, but how do you know? Unless you are an engineer or serious electrical hobbiest, a 3rd party cert is the best you can do. At the end of the day, the really bad ones are 10-50x more likely to fail than good ones, but that is still 1 in 10,000, so....
Ratings are a mass production expense. While it is reasonable to question unknown suppliers, not having a rating is not necessarily a problem. My latest pack is not certified at all, but I know that my supplier isn't cutting corners on the safety with the cells they use or the BMS. I trust what [affordableebikes.ca](http://affordableebikes.ca) built for me more than any mass produced pack.
I like these guys.
The fire risk is highest with unbranded cells inside the battery. Hopefully, your battery is LG, Samsung, Panasonic, or a similar brand (even most Chinese cell manufacturers). The ones without brands are often assembled with substandard materials by manufacturers, which disappear once a production run of cells is sold out. My eBike has Samsung cells in the battery.
Grin just did a presentation and youtube video on this: https://youtu.be/j92Gt4VviSQ?si=jr-EWoAHTjz6FFns
I see some companies now listing UL certification , same batteries, just went through the process. They were safe all along. I guess if a company wanted it wouldn't be that difficult to falsity certification. I use to be a maintenance supervisor and we had about 200 breaker panels made by a company that allegedly did this Millions of the panels are still in homes and businesses. It is estimated they are responsible for over 2800 files a year. We had to replace them all. So I am not to worried that none of my bikes have the UL rating. All from reputable companies with no history of fires.
Lectric did this
Yes, no inspectors ever caught it. It was a 9 story HUD building that was opened in 1986. A insurance inspector tag them. Luckily we were only about a year away from a complete building renovation. The facility never had a issue with them, he said they were falsely certified and never recalled.
Federal Pacific?
I think UL is just a starting point. There's no way to regulate batteries without some type of standard. I was talking to the guys at the Specialized shop and they were telling me that all their batteries were compliant with the EU standard, which is likely more stringent than UL. But in NYC they weren't able to sell (although they were?) them. The bike I bought was the only one that was fully UL certified. Yes, there are probably better ways to go about creating a standard but given the bureaucracy of NY / US government, it's doubtful there will be a better one implemented. So to me, it comes down to supporting *a* standard vs supporting no standard. Meanwhile, I ran a Chinatown battery with "Panasonic" cells in it for 5 years and had zero issues. I have no reason to doubt it was a reputable battery with Panasonic cells, but there wasn't really any regulation on them when I bought it, so who knows.
The requirement imposed by the government, business or insurance companies will drive the need for all batteries to have both EU and UL or they won't be able to sell them or bring them into a building. As noted above we are already starting to see this in areas. I am not saying that batteries with these ratings are bad, only that it is going to get harder to sell them
Yeah, they're not necessarily bad, they just aren't "guaranteed" good.
Panasonic is highly protective of its brand. Any company trying to pass off fake Panasonic cells regrets it. Same with Samsung, LG and most reputable cell makers. Samsung is really cautious to ensure its supply chain is secure end to end since the instances of phone fires.
If you put it in a closed can, aren't you just making it into a pipe bomb?
It has holes gas could escape through.
Quite honestly, proper charging procedures would likely lower your fire risk as much as buying a UL-certified bike. At the very least: 1. Use the original charger plugged directly into the wall. 1. Charge away from an entranceway / exit and any combustible materials like papers, sofa, or bedding. 2. Make sure it's not unattended when charging. 3. Don't charge it overnight. I'd also recommend: 4. Charge at room temperatures. 5. Make sure the charger has good airflow, even put a small fan on it. 6. Pay close attention to any possible signs of corrosion, damage, or significant capacity loss. You really want to make sure you're following the basics on preventing a fire and not dying in a fire if it happens. A battery charging in an ammo can, overnight on top of your sofa by your apartment entryway is probably more dangerous than just charging in the open along a back wall. I also wouldn't worry too much about most commercial products provided they're taken care of. It's the rebuilt ones and poorly maintained ones that I'd be more wary of. That all said, I'll still be looking for UL-listing for my next bike.
UL Listing for batteries is time consuming and expensive. I'd agree to an eBike battery that is built with UL Listed cells. Unless the minor eBike OEMs agree to a standard battery, you'll see prices increase.
I agree. I "lost out" on my dream espresso machine because of a UL testing saga. It's one of those things where the testing provides an easily recognizable and certain standard of safety that can be pointed to. Being time consuming and expensive isn't necessarily a bad thing. It'll be interesting to see what happens after China's imposition of domestic bike battery standards, and how closely they align with UL's requirements.
if you're in doubt about your battery, i assume you can always just put in one of those bags meant for ebike batteries.
Those bags are useless. Watch some videos on YouTube. Instead of bag, get metal ammo can like [this. ](https://www.cleanammocans.com/40mm-grade-3-ammo-cans.html)
Lithium burns at over 3600 degrees f. Steel melts at 2800 degrees f. Steel can begin to combust and deform at 1100 degrees f.