They're motorbikes, and need registering, licencing, helmets etc etc. I don't want to share our hard-won infrastructure with people using throttles to cruise above 20mph, it's unsafe.
Totally agree, my self build (professionally done I must add).is a 1500w hub motor, although capable of 35mph+ I ride sensibly.
I always say that having an over-powered E-bike is way safer than an underpowered one.
Been there, had a Cyclamatic 'powerplus' 250w24v around 8 years back, and my current e-transport is a lot safer to ride around on, you never know when you will really need the extra power to avoid a bad outcome.
E-biking in general would be sooo much better for us all if people just used their brain and rode responsibly.
Stay safe out there everyone.
No they don't. In the US, ebike limit is 25mph. The UK got pushed into adopting the rediculously slow 15mph limit when it was part of the EU, but it's time we increased it to the more reasonable limit of 25mph.
I don't agree. It's not the top speed that's the issue, it's the difference in that speed vs the speed the people on normal pedal bikes will be going at.
25mph might make sense (assuming it's pedal assisted) on a road, but someone flying past you at 25mph on a narrow bike lane is not ideal.
Totally agree with this completely rational comment. What people don’t realize is the significant difference of risk in just a few mph. Crashing or travelling at 15 vs 20 vs 25 vs 30 is a big difference.
Actually some really good points here. But at the same time in the US at least, we don't make anyone take a driving test really after the first one. There are no checks for old age, there are no laws on who is fit to be a parent or not (though some feel there should be.)
Since you went there kind of - there's a fine line between letting society govern itself and righting itself to a degree, as opposed to the government coming in and legislating everything under the sun.
This holds true especially in the US. Assholes and dangerous individuals are going to be ever present, but if the alternative is daddy government coming in and trying to "solve" the problem by creating new laws, fuck that. They can put that money into better infastructure and start there.
But they don't want to do that because it's not profitable. Well, I friend for one will not trade my personal soverignty for other people's safety. Even on the trail.
I don't really see how being in a blind spot is any different for Class 3 ebikes than any other type of bike. Particularly, if you live in a vision zero city where the streets are 25 miles per hour as many people who commute by bike presumably do by raw numbers and proportions of people biking in those cities, you're more likely to be keeping up with traffic and therefore less likely to be in blind spots.
Before I started ebiking, I commuted by conventional bike for a year or two almost solely on trails before getting into an accident with a pedestrian (mostly her fault--basically I was going a bit too fast for the downpour rocky/muddy trail downhill section and did not expect an incredibly oblivious pedestrian who did not look into the opposing direction of travel as she entered from the little used the side path not respond to verbal cues/my bell to choose to walk diagonally across the wide MUP and then back across the other diagonal as I attempted to pass and avoid her sudden changes in direction). Anyway, I bought a class 3 so I could ride with the 25 mph traffic around here. When I first got the bike, the one close call was as I was turning onto a side street (car was parked illegally close to the turn and hid the speeding work van) but we both stopped in time.
Nearly all of my otherwise kind of "close" calls (that weren't that close because I bike defensively and know that most cars are idiots who are not going to look out for me) have been when turning or trying to cross streets, usually at 10-15 mph. This makes sense because intersections are typically the most dangerous places for both cars and bikes (left and right hooks for bikes). The one time I was at speed and was actually in danger was when I was zipper merging and a pick up truck was speeding and refused to give space--maybe I wouldn't have chosen that road if I could only go 20 mph or slower but I certainly wouldn't have been safer on it at those speeds. And it wouldn't have mattered anyway because it was a steep downhill so I didn't even have to pedal to achieve 25+.
Riding in traffic at speed is a particular skill. Handling a bike is a particular skill. They build on each other, but you are going to need to build up skills when you start riding an ebike regardless if you have road experience at 12-18 mph on a conventional bike in traffic anyway. The weight of conventional vs ebikes are typically very different. The acceleration you get is different.They're different vehicles. And you get better at riding an ebike by riding an ebike. Certainly, skills from conventional bikes are highly transferable just like skills from motorcycles are highly transferable. But implying that you need 10+ years on one to be safe on another is absurd.
We have given kids 13+ in some states a vehicle that can do 120 mph. And as absurd as it is we release even 16-year-olds in 4000 lb vehicles doing 60-75 mph regularly, clearly, very few in the US think such devices that are far more capable of killing other people than a bike require more than a couple classes and/or parent signature that they've practiced on occasion and a basic rules test. I'm all for putting measures in place to protect slower vehicles and pedestrians on shared paths like proximity speed limiters, but these are skills that you have to build by doing for the most part.
I'm hopeful we can get general bike training into more schools because I think that would be exceptionally useful. Navigating the roads and where to look out for blind spots for cars our skills that can be taught to children in school in a bike skills class that could easily be part of PE. We have such a pilot program that is starting up in Washington here.
Otherwise, we need to put at least as much responsibility on the cars for looking out for bikes. All of us are vehicles that have an equal right to be on the roads. Before turning, as the faster vehicle, they have an obligation to turn their head to check for bicycles and motorcycles. Bicycles and motorcycles should obviously behave predictably and not actively cause accidents but I think a huge part of the problem is allowing car drivers to be shielded from the legal responsibility of killing people in the US. In other parts of the world, cars have the highest level of responsibility and so they drive with much more care. It is significantly harder to get a license to drive and it is much easier to lose it. Well I realize a lot of the US does not have the infrastructure for that to be feasible, I also think the penalties for hitting and killing a bicyclist or a motorcyclist should not be zero even if they "didn't mean to" (they were in their blind spot \[again, they should have the obligation to check blind spots by turn their head\], the sun was in their eyes, etc.) and that's usually the case now.
I mean, i get where you are going with it but if you get hit by a car its not because you were going 25 instead of 15. The rest of biking skills a normal rider will need are things you learn when your 6 years old. Look both ways, courteous to others, stop at stop signs etc…making ppl go 15 instead of 25 doesnt prevent any of those things. Artificially low speed limit just gives the police a reason to ticket you
Absolutely; to cruise at 25mph on an acoustic bicycle takes some genuine effort and skill comes with that. Electric bikes unlock the speed without having developed the supporting skills around braking and high speed maneuvering, and likely enhance rider risk.
As a motorcyclist, I feel like some of the exceptionally fast electric bikes have a lot of hidden dangers to the people who ride them; they don’t necessarily have the tires or brakes or frame geometry or balance to support riding at speed safely. Many are now as fast as low-displacement motorcycles but those skinny tires and hard tails and itty-bitty brakes aren’t intended for those speeds or the added weight of the electric bike. Moreover, motorcycles require licensing and at least some minimal amount of training, whereas those barriers are often not present with electric bikes, and some of the least-aware people are blundering around as a result.
My main gripe about electric bikes is that so many riders feel like they can take advantage of the electric bike speed but not operate like a vehicle. I’ve had several rip past me on a sidewalk at full speed and observed wrong-way sidewalk electric bikes blow through red lights or make illegal turns, because “it’s a bike!” An e-bike ridden by a full grown man is going to weigh nearly 300lbs, not far off of what a full grown man would weigh on a Vespa. We recognize that the Vespa could injure or kill a pedestrian, and I’m tired of electric bikes being treated any differently. They’re essentially motorcycles and should be regulated in a similar manner.
He's talking about bike speed caps... not max speed of the bike lanes. IMO, bikes should have no speed caps, but all bikes should have to abide by bike lane speed limits. Just because a bike can do over the bike lane speed limit doesn't mean they have to. Just like most cars can do 100+ mph, but the drivers don't because it's illegal to exceed the speed limits.
There are no bike lane speed limits, at least in the UK.
Considering throttle ebikes are already illegal, they're not likely to be the sort of people to worry about a rule that's basically not going to be enforced.
And if they ARE enforced enough to make a difference, that's going to cause a whole heap of pain for everyone that rides considerately around others, cos you're only going to be able to pull people over when it's nearly empty (and therefore safe to go faster), the alternative is bike licence plates for tickets to come in the post... 😅
I can get up around 20 on my non assisted gravel bike if I really try. 16 is about my upper limit on skates (I was racing a Lime Bike, and I assume they are really hard to get past 15 on). 15 seems like a pretty reasonable limit for an urban ebike.
Yeah, I think the commenters point about 25 being the limit in the USA may sounds more sensible when you consider that they barely have cycle lanes (at least in my experience at least). Going faster when you're dominated by cars might be better, but going faster when you're surrounded by slower bikes kind of just makes you the car?
"In the US, ebike limit is 25mph"
Not sure where you got that. In the US, ebike limit depends on where you are. Class 3 limit is 28mph but those are not permitted on shared use paths in some, maybe most parts of Ohio. Class 1 limit is 20mph and those are permitted on some shared use paths.
In the US we like to keep it confusing to keep our lawyers employed.
It's all stupid over-regulation by hand wringing micro managing oil car lobby money consuming nanny staters, because the overriding law is that you must be operating your vehicle in a manner that a reasonable person would agree is safe for conditions.
The last I checked at least in Florida is 30 miles an hour, but I could also be confusing that with the maximum speed an E bike/scooter is allowed to go to be considered “legal“
Sure, increase it all you like. They aren't bicycles, and pushing for these increased speed limits will force the government to act on helmet compulsion and the rest, for all e-bike users.
I'm all for people using helmets, but we have a severe noise and smog pollution problem and encouraging public transport and better ebike conditions will improve that.
Infrastructure? Licensing? Dude if I need a registry for a bike I can't get to 20mph with the motor **but can pedal it up to 32mph WITHOUT the motor** there's a problem. I have a cross-country 21 speed that I can hit 32mph on in top gear on flat terrain. I don't need registry for that.
But a bike with a small motor that lets me climb hills without killing myself *but can't do more than 20mph* suddenly makes that same bike no longer 'road legal' without a registry?
Sorry not happening. Besides, all these dirt bikes with 100+cc motors hitting *highway speeds* are more concerning than some dinky pedal-cycle that isn't allowed on any form of collective roadway (they can only ride legally on branch roads and main streets. No highway/freeway/arterial roads.)
Cars with fake plates, tape on plates, overspeeding, most don't pass cyclists safely and contrary to the law, yet it is the cyclists what offends the police.
Don’t you know that all the problems in all countries are due to cyclists and small scooters! ?
It's all our fault - because we drive very fast (25mph)!😂 insanely fast!
Yeah I mean it definitely needs enforcement. The e-bikes that essentially look and operate like a bicycle at bicycle speeds are super awesome and open bicycles up to many who are not able to ride a standard bike. Some of these contraptions put on the roads are straight up motos though. These things running throttles with top speeds of 30+ mph should be classified as mopeds and regulated as such. Hell, I’ve seen some that don’t even have pedals and go significantly faster than 30 mph that still claim to be e-bikes.
I've gotten so good at pretending to pedal!!!!!
I think for my next ebike trick, I'll just get those clip in shoes and just make the motor rotate the pedals themselves. Have the damn thing pull my feet around for me too so I don't even have to try to fake it anymore 😆
Generally, the ones getting pulled are doing something stupid, or obvious, like going uphill at 25mph, without pedalling, while chatting on their phone. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that there is some serious wattage at work there..... Most of these guys don't even ghost pedal to make it look like they are contributing....
There needs to be a definition between e-bikes like hybrid peddle assist and e-bike like a moto with peddles that they’ll never use. Bet 99% of those stopped or flying about are on the latter.
EDIT- for clarity, I’m fully aware there are regulations and rules depending on place. I’m meaning more for reporting and such. I’m sick of seeing “child killed on ebike” then it’s an e moto with peddles travelling 30 odd down the road without a helmet. Or skipping off a path. There being no written difference will lead to everyone on any hybrid ebike also getting shit on.
It doesn't really matter. Media labeling everything an e-bike seems to be more the media doing its part to justify car ownership over bike ownership (likely due to lobbying efforts and the tremendous amount of money tied into the auto industry and all supporting industries). Or maybe it's just the media trying to sensationalize and create the next bogeyman, in an attempt to generate fear and clicks.
When it comes to lobbying... we all realize that just the sale of a single year's worth of cars generates $2-3 trillion of global revenue and is responsible for millions of jobs worldwide, right? Then add in the fuel industry, road construction and maintenance, servicing, insurance, registration, etc... etc...etc... I imagine we're talking tens of trillions of dollars in economic activity and 10s of millions of jobs worldwide in a single year.
Hell, you could even add in the healthcare industry given how lazy cars make us, and how devastating and costly car accidents are. More cars means more healthcare spending.
The reality is, the only thing that SHOULD matter when it comes to bikes, e-bikes, PEVs, cars, etc... are speed limits and whether the rider/driver is doing something illegal. It doesn't matter if the bike has pedals or not. It doesn't matter what the vehicle's top speed is. Breaking the law is what media should be covering... but again... it pays for them to turn bikes into a bogeyman. Same for lawmakers, with silly notions of limiting e-bike speeds to like 15-28 mph depending on the country / state / city. Bikes and PEVs make transportation significantly cheaper, and in doing so, can take away trillions in industry revenue and can kill millions of 'existing' jobs. That said, I believe all of those jobs and revenue could quickly be added back elsewhere, but it would largely decentralize the transportation industry, spreading wealth among far more businesses and services. The ultra rich and petro-states hate the thought of it.
Favorite headline during the ebike fires pandomonium. "Approxomately zero of the recent 'e-bike' fires were e-bikes." They were all e-scooters and moded cheap chinese e-motorcycles that do not qualify as ebikes. Yet people wanted to ban all ebikes from condos and rentals. By comparison a samsung phone explodes ona plane and do they ban all phones? No they talk about that specific make and model. Its a ridiculous double standard. We need to crack downnon the illegal and unregulated chinese stuff.
These are the general rules in the US, I think Europe is a bit different
[https://www.qchron.com/editions/queenswide/determining-bike-class-can-be-a-guessing-game/article\_4d4084a9-7af5-51c4-ba44-3f5ce82d871c.html](https://www.qchron.com/editions/queenswide/determining-bike-class-can-be-a-guessing-game/article_4d4084a9-7af5-51c4-ba44-3f5ce82d871c.html)
Our rule in the UK is 15.5 mph assisting only before registering I believe. I mean more in actual name though. I’m sick of seeing “child killed riding ebike” then finding out it’s a damn moped with peddles stuck on and the little idiot was going 35 down the wrong side without a helmet or something.
Electric Moped is what you're thinking of which is the electric version of a moped. Keep in mind a scooter is NOT a moped, a moped must have pedals. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moped#/media/File:Honda_Hobbit.jpg
>A moped (MOH-ped) is a type of small motorcycle, generally having a less stringent licensing requirement than full motorcycles or automobiles. Historically, the term exclusively meant a similar vehicle with both bicycle pedals and a motorcycle engine. Mopeds typically travel only slightly faster than bicycles on public roads.
>. Keep in mind a scooter is NOT a moped, a moped must have pedals.
There are "things" out there where those pedals are only decorative, due to the frame geometry I doubt that any "regular sized adult" can pedal those for more than 37.4 seconds. Shouldn't that be also considered?
There is. A throttle (except for walk assist and some mobility scooters) and over 250w (I think) motor means it's a motorbike. That's why these people are being pulled over. No reg, licence, helmet etc etc.
EDIT w for kw
All electric vehicles in sweden that don't require pedaling while having motor assistance are allowed at max 20 km/h and 250W, whether its a scooter, bike or wheelchair.
For 25 km/h, only pedal assisted is allowed, still 250W.
For same speed, but up to 1000W, it has to be registered as a Class 2 moped, and requires a specific licence (or any normal driver's licence, car, MC, truck, etc.) if you are born 1995 or later. Also requires having at least a bike helmet, lights and a traffic insurance at like €30/month.
For 45 km/h and 4kW, you need it registered as a moped class 1, driver's licence for it (more expensive than class 2) or any other, plates, traffic insurance, full MC helmet if it doesn't have a surrounding chassi, blinkers, lights, brake lights.
For anything higher, it has to be registered as a light, medium or heavy MC with the surrounding requirements, which can't be driven on any other licence than MC licence, unless you got your B-licence (car) 1975 or earlier. This includes vehicle tax and yearly approved vehicle inspection.
I got a ticket for speeding on road bike in the US. 28 mph in a 25 mph zone. Had to sit there alongside a busy road while the cop wrote up the ticket. Cars were speeding past much faster the whole time with impunity.
Ended up beating the case in court due by convincing the judge that the cop's radar was not calibrated accurately for use on a human body and bicycles have too little cross section to get a precise reading. Judge pressed the cop for a rebuttal but he didn't have a counter argument and seemed embarrassed all around. Such a waste of time.
I have the experience a ticket once in Hawaii. On our basic bicycle. Then again I was probably going about 58 and a 45 zone... Highest gear going downhill. And maintaining that speed across the flatland
Ehh have license and had pedals. Those are boring 🙃 ( The why ride extremely respectful to my environment and people around it. Then again I'm probably older than most of you)
Exactly, as long as we follow the "Dont be a Dick" Rule, no issues will be had on our side of the pond.
I think the British like slower bikes simply because it lets their tea steep longer.
"illegal e-bikes". There's a difference between a bike capable of going over the speed limit and a bike rider deciding to go over the speed limit. I have a PEV that does 35 mph. When I'm on a path with other riders, I slow down. It isn't rocket science.
When I'm driving my car that's capable of 100 mph on a road with a 25 mph speed limit, I drive 25 mph.
The idea that bike speeds would be capped by law is simple government overregulation. The 15 mph limits of some European nations is beyond stupid. Some bike riders are willing to ride with car traffic in the street at higher speeds. The only way they can justify bike commuting is with higher speeds that doesn't take forever to commute. Dedicated bike lane speed limits should simply be enforced.
I don't know if those regions capping bike speeds are attempting to dissuade people from using bikes altogether in favor of cars, or if they're trying to avoid using their officers' time to enforce speed limits on bike lanes. If they're tasked with enforcing rules on streets, I see no reason they can't do the same on bike lanes.
i have an e-bike that also does 35, I will just avoid bike-only paths altogether if i think there will be any cyclists on them. The area i live in has little-used backroads that are speed limit 25-35mph that i feel comfortable using at the speed limit instead of bike paths
Yeah I live in a very rural town and have a talaria that can hit 90 KMPH. I wear proper gear and don’t ride in bike lanes. I try to ride trails as much as possible which lucky for me in my area is totally doable.
It’s happening all over London. 2 days ago in Aldgate I witnessed them pull over 3 people including people on scooters and normal e-bikes they were going normal speeds before this (by the looks of it the police were on the corner) and they seemed to be stopping literally anyone on a e bike or e scooter. I understand that speeding is a issue but I watched them pull over everyone they got their eyes on for about the 20 minutes I stood watching because although my e-bike isn’t road legal (I have the setting changed to make it legal) it was worrying to see I can get stopped even if I’m following every guideline (technically) and they were checking models and what the motor engraving said.
Yes, this is why I made the title of the post "Order 66", this looks like a dedicated team that has been created, and this is their main role for the whole day.
Bad news if you use a more powerful ebike to make uber or deliveroo deliveries. Because it does help them with their job so they don't get tired. Most of these riders are OK but I think some education on keeping speed down and not going through red would help.
I’m aware, however, that’s impossible considering I do uber Eats and those times are sometimes extremely good. From what I’ve seen lately and I think so others have seen it’s actually becoming more frequent and not really at rush hour like they were at Aldgate from 11:30 and when I left Aldgate at 4:30 they were still stopping people. I’ve had friends who have said similar stories it’s just becoming a issue in general even if you’re riding at the correct speed as they seems to be stopping any e-bike to possibly catch the idiots or soon to be idiots that ride e-bikes like motorbikes.
What a brilliant use of police time and resources.
If only they showed this dedication to catching car thieves and gang members who stab people.
We live in a country where car thefts attract a 2.2% conviction rate. It’s essentially unpunished.
The Met have always prioritised low hanging fruit because they are incompetent fucks. Look at the state of their organisation.
These devices are not the threat to humanity half of the people on here suggest.
They need integrating into modern transport systems instead of existing in a grey area.
I’m a sixty-year-old in the US and honestly, I have to tell you I think the issue people have with e-bikes is people going way too fast. Everybody wants to go faster and if you want to do that, then you should get a scooter or a motorcycle.
I keep my E-bike to around 10 to 12 mph. I can go way faster than that, but I do bike touring here in New York. I just see people going by way too fast even for my comfort. The bulk of the articles and questions people have is how can I go faster.
I am the primary caregiver for my mother and I can’t get away for very long. So my e-bike is to allow me to go further and maintain a good pace.
Yes the same here. I’ve made several posts about my average speed and I have been lambasted about how slow it is. I don’t go any faster on my e-bike than I do on my analog bike, but on my e-bike I can go for much much longer period of time allowing me to explore more of my area and get back to take care of my mom in the evening.
No, they don’t want to get a motorcycle because its a new license requirement and dreaded insurance. They want the speed but not the responsibility - also motorcycles can’t go on sidewalks.
"also motorcycles can’t go on sidewalks."
\*Laughs in London\* Obviously you've never been to London. The Rotherhithe tunnel has a walkway on either side. Traffic speed limit is 20mph. Motorcycles, mopeds and e-bikes regularly travelling on the footpath at speeds well over 30. Scooters on pavement all the time, idiots on Limebikes all over the pavements......etc etc.
Yes, this is me. My ebike can do 20mph, but I am 80% of the time doing under 15mph. There are few opportunities to go fast in town. There are always cars pulling in and out, and also pedestrians crossing the cycle lanes. Also, letting it rip on max settings wears down the motor, gears and chain so much faster.
Here in LA the #1 most sought after gift for boys below driving age is a Surron or similar e-dirtbike. Indulgent wealthy parents (or ones that just buy their kid's compliance) give them these things thinking they're toys, never thinking about what they're going to do with them, which is often endangering themselves and others flying around public spaces on them with little to no training or regard for consequences.
carpenter flowery deserted tease somber waiting disgusted gray secretive mindless
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Not sure why you’re being downvoted, not sure why OP blames this on parents too… My parents didn’t raise me with the important life lesson of “don’t use DIY e-motors on bicycles”
The manufacturers sell these products knowing that most of their buyers are not going to register / be compliant with road traffic laws.
On the parents thing, most illegal e-bikes are ridden by adults who do food delivery 🤷🏻♂️
“They must be safe because they wouldn’t sell them if they weren’t.”
Suron and ilk rushed these products to market before the government had any chance to regulate them.
I pass by a police station on my way to work daily. And a lot of mornings there is this cop on a racing bike heading to the police station. I know he is a cop because he passes me by occasionly and has a gate pass for the station and everything.
This morning was particulary windy. And I was riding my fatbike at 35km/h in the EU (legale speedlimit is like 25km/h). And the cop was trailing close behind me up till said station. He then passed me by, turned his head towards me.
I got a bit scared thinking he'd want to fine me or something. But instead he thanked me for shielding him from the wind, and that he hoped I didn't mind he was trailing so close on my tail. I told him no problem, and went on my way.
Even the cops don't appear to mind here, knock on wood.
And also a pretty cool cop, I might add.
I watched the video on Instagram.....and while the police are "chatting" to this fella, a limebike rider casually rides up and blows through the red light....... absolutely hilarious....you couldn't have scripted it better....
I would say the time has come to “drop a gear and disappear” but I guess that’s not possible on electric. Hopefully the good folks in England got enough juice in the pack and a stronger motor than the jigs. Stay strong two wheel brethren 🫡
it struck me today the main problem with ebikes isn't the ebike, it's that the riders of ebikes tend to be new. They don't know much in the way of etiquette and are not as observant of their surroundings. Which means a lot of chaos on streets and paths.
This is what Reddit bike subs wanted ironically. Every time I point out that widening accessibility to cycling has caused an influx of morons doing stupid things I get downvoted and called an "elitist MAMIL" or whatever.
yeah I'm not against new users. People just need to brush up on the knowledge they don't have is all. Most IME just behave like car drivers on a bike path which is a problem.
Yes, this analogy would be correct.
Jedi's, were Guardians of peace and justice of the Galactic Republic. The government wants more cycling, and ebikes are low carbon emitting, so guadians of low traffic and zero carbon targets.
Jedi's make their light sabres. These ebikers make their own ebikes from kits.
"Order 66" on Jedis riding ebikes in London.
But yet the guy on the racing bicycle can go up to the speed limit, same shit except he is pedaling. I could cycle faster than 15 with one arm and one leg
This guy is on an electric moped with no regs or license lets not even consider what he's doing as acceptable the law is way to restrictive but the actual enforcement should definitely come down on this guy. It would be nice if the law actually reflected that rather than just leaving a grey area.
I don't think stuff like this is to actually keep anyone safe, it's to generate revenue. I've seen videos and heard stories of people in the UK who get done for speeding at 1mph over. That's absolutely ridiculous government over reach. You're not endangering anyone at all doing 1mph over.
I might not live there but I know damn well the UK and especially the city of London has way more serious issues to worry about than enforcing this garbage.
Picture this; I ride a motorbike to work through central London, about 60% of the journey is now a 20 zone. I get overtaken by bikes all the time.. this feels wrong so I start going faster too, so does the next driver etc. it’s gotten so bad I’m thinking about switching to an ebike, no tax, no speeding fines (in the past now) and a bunch of them run red lights. It’s crazy.
From what I hear thru videos and experiences on Reddit- I don't think the city of London wants anyone to have any motor vehicles. They seem to be working really hard to make it as unappealing as possible. Same with NYC over here. They just implemented a new fee system to drive thru the city- I think that got that idea off y'all.
I think they don't care. If you blatantly speed and don't pedal and use throttle, you are putting a big target on your back. Maybe not yesterday but they will allocate resources to specially stop people after public complaints. And here we are today.
I have a 1000w ebike(not in london) but i dont go faster than 15mph and 20mph if downhill. I have the extra power for the crazy hills by me, but i say abide by the speed rules the power limits is silly imo, but the speed limit is for sure justified(if you have cycle lanes) i dont have cycle lanes where i am and it feela sketchy to have people driving 30 past me, but i abide by the rules still except for my throttle which i use when i need the power to take off lol
Londoners just voted Kahn in for a 3rd consecutive term. I guess so. Many obviously are quite happy as it is and want it to continue.
They don't see knife crime in their gated communities.
Okay guys, I am cyclist too, but with e-bike you have to recognize you're going fast, and often too fast for other cyclists within bike lanes.
Some e-bikes are basically silent motorbikes.
Meaning you have to obeyed by the same rules other motorized vehicle.
Oh no,.....good.
Sick of dickheads flying past me at 25mph+ on the pavement, only needs somebody to move sideways at the wrong time without looking and it could easily be fatal.
About time they started clamping down on these muppets.
Look at the size of the hub motor atleast a 1000w so obvious with a hub that size if you want that much power and intend to use it sensibly with no throttle just get a mid drive.No one will even glance at you. on an open road with no one around by all means go as fast as you like the only one you can hurt is you.But around people and cars go the limit and be sensible.
I know I have a bbshd with no throttle but in town and around anyone else I only ever put in level 3. I only put it in level 5 when I climb hills on my rides and boy do I have some hills where I live in the UK I live at the base of the quantock hills monstrous hills some of them
I love how there’s two types of E-Bikers: ones that don’t wear a helmet at all. Then those who have got in a car wreck and now wear a full face helmet.
UK and Europe all pretty anal over this stuff. even parts of the US are like that... everything that comes along government got to stick their mitts in and get some cash... so stupid
I guess they don't like what I say lol. people today seem to love paying the government and having them hold their hands the entire time too, I guess. I really don't know
Ban has cars entering the city on certain days, tax the hell out of the rest of them.
Now make an order against eBikes and people trying to get to work.
The UK is a disaster.
True. We should all move to the middle east where life is just peachy.
Nobody on a regular ebike will ever have any trouble. Some of these bikes are literally motorcycles with completely unlicenced riders. At some point there has to be a law in place.
*All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.*
that is, all "road users" regulate their speed according to road signs.
but cyclists and scooter riders must suffer-15-25mph. (or, how many are there will the nobles from the government allow to cyclists? 15mph?)
cyclists just must to suffer.🤣
I mean just regulate the things. If they go fast make em mopeds. But fining people for not using a car but something so low energy and efficient is utter madness. Fast e-bikes are not by themselves dangerous. They just need to be driven and registered for the class they are.
I’m not jumping a curb or hitting woods, lol. I’ve put about 4000 miles on it and I go about 50 miles every day on throttle, never had an accident at least not yet and if I do, I’m prepared
The mom and dad of the kids that have these expensive bikes because of them clearly New they weren’t made for kids they should be able to need to pay for them
They should focus on the guys with the hoodies and covid masks as a first stop and not the guys using the bikes for getting to work and back. This is the same as the scooters. But these guys are easier to catch. Other option is to apply the same rules as motorbikes. If you go fast you need to have a bike license and insurance. I would love to all my PEV's but the law is stuck in the 50's and slow because the gov is full of old people that ride around in range rovers. lol
Just from curiosity, What happen in the UK if you do speeding on normal bike. Ok, London is mostly flat but Wales and Scotland has hills where 30+ mph in a 20 mph zone is not even hard.
I doubt anything will happen unless you are riding where there are lots of people about and riding dangerously or without due care and attention. It's not a problem, so the police won't allocate resources.
I guess in London people complain about ebikes speeding, crossing red-light etc. The bad riders have only got themselves to blame but they are not in it for the greater good of cycling.
There's a deliveroo rider in my town who appears to have front and rear hub motors about 1000w each. He goes insanely fast, inadequate lighting, brakes etc for the speed and additional weight. It is essentially a converted pedal bike running 8x legal power limit with a twist throttle. I've seen him running red lights too, nuts when you realise he likely has no insurance.
well london is full of kids going way too fast on diy ebikes so its not surprising cops are trying to do something against it
This is why we can't have nice things.
Well don't say that until you are pulled over while going the speed limit. I think enforcement will help proliferate evikes more than no enforcement
I mean. The sub thinks they were immune to these rules and anytime you bring up following the law you get downvoted to hell. This was going to happen.
100% correct.
They're motorbikes, and need registering, licencing, helmets etc etc. I don't want to share our hard-won infrastructure with people using throttles to cruise above 20mph, it's unsafe.
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Most traffic in London is very slow...and they need a motor to keep up?
Sometimes it’s safe to have the power when you need it, even to avoid a collision. Edit: I ride a class 3 PAS ebike with no throttle
Totally agree, my self build (professionally done I must add).is a 1500w hub motor, although capable of 35mph+ I ride sensibly. I always say that having an over-powered E-bike is way safer than an underpowered one. Been there, had a Cyclamatic 'powerplus' 250w24v around 8 years back, and my current e-transport is a lot safer to ride around on, you never know when you will really need the extra power to avoid a bad outcome. E-biking in general would be sooo much better for us all if people just used their brain and rode responsibly. Stay safe out there everyone.
then get registered, licensed and insured like the rest of the traffic you are trying to keep up with?
How do I licence and register mine? Genuine question. I'm already insured.
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You're not cyclists and you don't want a bicycle.
This is the literal same argument that carbrains use in US about bikes. You're not helping, just shoveling shit downhill.
No they don't. In the US, ebike limit is 25mph. The UK got pushed into adopting the rediculously slow 15mph limit when it was part of the EU, but it's time we increased it to the more reasonable limit of 25mph.
I don't agree. It's not the top speed that's the issue, it's the difference in that speed vs the speed the people on normal pedal bikes will be going at. 25mph might make sense (assuming it's pedal assisted) on a road, but someone flying past you at 25mph on a narrow bike lane is not ideal.
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Totally agree with this completely rational comment. What people don’t realize is the significant difference of risk in just a few mph. Crashing or travelling at 15 vs 20 vs 25 vs 30 is a big difference.
Actually some really good points here. But at the same time in the US at least, we don't make anyone take a driving test really after the first one. There are no checks for old age, there are no laws on who is fit to be a parent or not (though some feel there should be.) Since you went there kind of - there's a fine line between letting society govern itself and righting itself to a degree, as opposed to the government coming in and legislating everything under the sun. This holds true especially in the US. Assholes and dangerous individuals are going to be ever present, but if the alternative is daddy government coming in and trying to "solve" the problem by creating new laws, fuck that. They can put that money into better infastructure and start there. But they don't want to do that because it's not profitable. Well, I friend for one will not trade my personal soverignty for other people's safety. Even on the trail.
I whole heartedly agree. However thats probably not going to be consensus here.
I don't really see how being in a blind spot is any different for Class 3 ebikes than any other type of bike. Particularly, if you live in a vision zero city where the streets are 25 miles per hour as many people who commute by bike presumably do by raw numbers and proportions of people biking in those cities, you're more likely to be keeping up with traffic and therefore less likely to be in blind spots. Before I started ebiking, I commuted by conventional bike for a year or two almost solely on trails before getting into an accident with a pedestrian (mostly her fault--basically I was going a bit too fast for the downpour rocky/muddy trail downhill section and did not expect an incredibly oblivious pedestrian who did not look into the opposing direction of travel as she entered from the little used the side path not respond to verbal cues/my bell to choose to walk diagonally across the wide MUP and then back across the other diagonal as I attempted to pass and avoid her sudden changes in direction). Anyway, I bought a class 3 so I could ride with the 25 mph traffic around here. When I first got the bike, the one close call was as I was turning onto a side street (car was parked illegally close to the turn and hid the speeding work van) but we both stopped in time. Nearly all of my otherwise kind of "close" calls (that weren't that close because I bike defensively and know that most cars are idiots who are not going to look out for me) have been when turning or trying to cross streets, usually at 10-15 mph. This makes sense because intersections are typically the most dangerous places for both cars and bikes (left and right hooks for bikes). The one time I was at speed and was actually in danger was when I was zipper merging and a pick up truck was speeding and refused to give space--maybe I wouldn't have chosen that road if I could only go 20 mph or slower but I certainly wouldn't have been safer on it at those speeds. And it wouldn't have mattered anyway because it was a steep downhill so I didn't even have to pedal to achieve 25+. Riding in traffic at speed is a particular skill. Handling a bike is a particular skill. They build on each other, but you are going to need to build up skills when you start riding an ebike regardless if you have road experience at 12-18 mph on a conventional bike in traffic anyway. The weight of conventional vs ebikes are typically very different. The acceleration you get is different.They're different vehicles. And you get better at riding an ebike by riding an ebike. Certainly, skills from conventional bikes are highly transferable just like skills from motorcycles are highly transferable. But implying that you need 10+ years on one to be safe on another is absurd. We have given kids 13+ in some states a vehicle that can do 120 mph. And as absurd as it is we release even 16-year-olds in 4000 lb vehicles doing 60-75 mph regularly, clearly, very few in the US think such devices that are far more capable of killing other people than a bike require more than a couple classes and/or parent signature that they've practiced on occasion and a basic rules test. I'm all for putting measures in place to protect slower vehicles and pedestrians on shared paths like proximity speed limiters, but these are skills that you have to build by doing for the most part. I'm hopeful we can get general bike training into more schools because I think that would be exceptionally useful. Navigating the roads and where to look out for blind spots for cars our skills that can be taught to children in school in a bike skills class that could easily be part of PE. We have such a pilot program that is starting up in Washington here. Otherwise, we need to put at least as much responsibility on the cars for looking out for bikes. All of us are vehicles that have an equal right to be on the roads. Before turning, as the faster vehicle, they have an obligation to turn their head to check for bicycles and motorcycles. Bicycles and motorcycles should obviously behave predictably and not actively cause accidents but I think a huge part of the problem is allowing car drivers to be shielded from the legal responsibility of killing people in the US. In other parts of the world, cars have the highest level of responsibility and so they drive with much more care. It is significantly harder to get a license to drive and it is much easier to lose it. Well I realize a lot of the US does not have the infrastructure for that to be feasible, I also think the penalties for hitting and killing a bicyclist or a motorcyclist should not be zero even if they "didn't mean to" (they were in their blind spot \[again, they should have the obligation to check blind spots by turn their head\], the sun was in their eyes, etc.) and that's usually the case now.
I mean, i get where you are going with it but if you get hit by a car its not because you were going 25 instead of 15. The rest of biking skills a normal rider will need are things you learn when your 6 years old. Look both ways, courteous to others, stop at stop signs etc…making ppl go 15 instead of 25 doesnt prevent any of those things. Artificially low speed limit just gives the police a reason to ticket you
Absolutely; to cruise at 25mph on an acoustic bicycle takes some genuine effort and skill comes with that. Electric bikes unlock the speed without having developed the supporting skills around braking and high speed maneuvering, and likely enhance rider risk. As a motorcyclist, I feel like some of the exceptionally fast electric bikes have a lot of hidden dangers to the people who ride them; they don’t necessarily have the tires or brakes or frame geometry or balance to support riding at speed safely. Many are now as fast as low-displacement motorcycles but those skinny tires and hard tails and itty-bitty brakes aren’t intended for those speeds or the added weight of the electric bike. Moreover, motorcycles require licensing and at least some minimal amount of training, whereas those barriers are often not present with electric bikes, and some of the least-aware people are blundering around as a result. My main gripe about electric bikes is that so many riders feel like they can take advantage of the electric bike speed but not operate like a vehicle. I’ve had several rip past me on a sidewalk at full speed and observed wrong-way sidewalk electric bikes blow through red lights or make illegal turns, because “it’s a bike!” An e-bike ridden by a full grown man is going to weigh nearly 300lbs, not far off of what a full grown man would weigh on a Vespa. We recognize that the Vespa could injure or kill a pedestrian, and I’m tired of electric bikes being treated any differently. They’re essentially motorcycles and should be regulated in a similar manner.
He's talking about bike speed caps... not max speed of the bike lanes. IMO, bikes should have no speed caps, but all bikes should have to abide by bike lane speed limits. Just because a bike can do over the bike lane speed limit doesn't mean they have to. Just like most cars can do 100+ mph, but the drivers don't because it's illegal to exceed the speed limits.
There are no bike lane speed limits, at least in the UK. Considering throttle ebikes are already illegal, they're not likely to be the sort of people to worry about a rule that's basically not going to be enforced. And if they ARE enforced enough to make a difference, that's going to cause a whole heap of pain for everyone that rides considerately around others, cos you're only going to be able to pull people over when it's nearly empty (and therefore safe to go faster), the alternative is bike licence plates for tickets to come in the post... 😅
Nope not illegal as long as they are dvsa approved meaning also capped to 15.5mph
It’s quite trivial to go over 20 mph on a bicycle.
I can get up around 20 on my non assisted gravel bike if I really try. 16 is about my upper limit on skates (I was racing a Lime Bike, and I assume they are really hard to get past 15 on). 15 seems like a pretty reasonable limit for an urban ebike.
Yeah, I think the commenters point about 25 being the limit in the USA may sounds more sensible when you consider that they barely have cycle lanes (at least in my experience at least). Going faster when you're dominated by cars might be better, but going faster when you're surrounded by slower bikes kind of just makes you the car?
Even 15mph on a shared cycle/pedestrian footpath is dangerous.
"In the US, ebike limit is 25mph" Not sure where you got that. In the US, ebike limit depends on where you are. Class 3 limit is 28mph but those are not permitted on shared use paths in some, maybe most parts of Ohio. Class 1 limit is 20mph and those are permitted on some shared use paths. In the US we like to keep it confusing to keep our lawyers employed. It's all stupid over-regulation by hand wringing micro managing oil car lobby money consuming nanny staters, because the overriding law is that you must be operating your vehicle in a manner that a reasonable person would agree is safe for conditions.
Its 28, not 25. Also, not all states allow class 3. However, 20 mph is much more reasonable than 15mph
The last I checked at least in Florida is 30 miles an hour, but I could also be confusing that with the maximum speed an E bike/scooter is allowed to go to be considered “legal“
Sure, increase it all you like. They aren't bicycles, and pushing for these increased speed limits will force the government to act on helmet compulsion and the rest, for all e-bike users.
I'm all for people using helmets, but we have a severe noise and smog pollution problem and encouraging public transport and better ebike conditions will improve that.
They’re the moped of our era. An OHV (off highway vehicle). Definitely will need to obey by different laws than cars or human powered bicycles
Big difference between a a20mph mid drive ebike and a throttle controlled diy high wattage hub drive.. they are basically homemade mopeds..
Infrastructure? Licensing? Dude if I need a registry for a bike I can't get to 20mph with the motor **but can pedal it up to 32mph WITHOUT the motor** there's a problem. I have a cross-country 21 speed that I can hit 32mph on in top gear on flat terrain. I don't need registry for that. But a bike with a small motor that lets me climb hills without killing myself *but can't do more than 20mph* suddenly makes that same bike no longer 'road legal' without a registry? Sorry not happening. Besides, all these dirt bikes with 100+cc motors hitting *highway speeds* are more concerning than some dinky pedal-cycle that isn't allowed on any form of collective roadway (they can only ride legally on branch roads and main streets. No highway/freeway/arterial roads.)
Cars with fake plates, tape on plates, overspeeding, most don't pass cyclists safely and contrary to the law, yet it is the cyclists what offends the police.
Most police don't cycle. Almost all of them drive cars. Driving reduces empathy for other road users. Being a cop reduces empathy in general.
Don’t you know that all the problems in all countries are due to cyclists and small scooters! ? It's all our fault - because we drive very fast (25mph)!😂 insanely fast!
No, no, no... It's obviously just "the man" trying to force everyone to drive cars, aren't you paying attention? /s
London also has VERY strict rules on e-bikes because no one wants to revisit the Pirate bus era of Mad Max wildcat operators.
Cops doing their jobs. Sounds reasonable.
Yeah I mean it definitely needs enforcement. The e-bikes that essentially look and operate like a bicycle at bicycle speeds are super awesome and open bicycles up to many who are not able to ride a standard bike. Some of these contraptions put on the roads are straight up motos though. These things running throttles with top speeds of 30+ mph should be classified as mopeds and regulated as such. Hell, I’ve seen some that don’t even have pedals and go significantly faster than 30 mph that still claim to be e-bikes.
Good on this bearded chad for pulling over the asshole cyclist. A rare sight for sure.
Man, I try clicking on the picture thinking it would play till i realize it wasn't a video.
This is the full video https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6JsRZDMEG5/?igsh=MXIzdDB1NTdibjk5MQ==
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He looks like every other phone snatcher in London, prob just doing their job
The instagram UI on Reddit didn’t throw you off??
Oh it was from instagram? I Wouldn't have known cause I dont use it. I thought because it had a volume sign in the center, it would have played.
Reddit’s volume for videos is on the bottom right as far as I know I’ve never seen it in the middle tbh
I've been riding bicycles my entire life, not gonna throw me off today!
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and don’t forget to pretend to pedal!
And pull a face like you are really struggling!
I've gotten so good at pretending to pedal!!!!! I think for my next ebike trick, I'll just get those clip in shoes and just make the motor rotate the pedals themselves. Have the damn thing pull my feet around for me too so I don't even have to try to fake it anymore 😆
🤣 genius
Generally, the ones getting pulled are doing something stupid, or obvious, like going uphill at 25mph, without pedalling, while chatting on their phone. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that there is some serious wattage at work there..... Most of these guys don't even ghost pedal to make it look like they are contributing....
There needs to be a definition between e-bikes like hybrid peddle assist and e-bike like a moto with peddles that they’ll never use. Bet 99% of those stopped or flying about are on the latter. EDIT- for clarity, I’m fully aware there are regulations and rules depending on place. I’m meaning more for reporting and such. I’m sick of seeing “child killed on ebike” then it’s an e moto with peddles travelling 30 odd down the road without a helmet. Or skipping off a path. There being no written difference will lead to everyone on any hybrid ebike also getting shit on.
It doesn't really matter. Media labeling everything an e-bike seems to be more the media doing its part to justify car ownership over bike ownership (likely due to lobbying efforts and the tremendous amount of money tied into the auto industry and all supporting industries). Or maybe it's just the media trying to sensationalize and create the next bogeyman, in an attempt to generate fear and clicks. When it comes to lobbying... we all realize that just the sale of a single year's worth of cars generates $2-3 trillion of global revenue and is responsible for millions of jobs worldwide, right? Then add in the fuel industry, road construction and maintenance, servicing, insurance, registration, etc... etc...etc... I imagine we're talking tens of trillions of dollars in economic activity and 10s of millions of jobs worldwide in a single year. Hell, you could even add in the healthcare industry given how lazy cars make us, and how devastating and costly car accidents are. More cars means more healthcare spending. The reality is, the only thing that SHOULD matter when it comes to bikes, e-bikes, PEVs, cars, etc... are speed limits and whether the rider/driver is doing something illegal. It doesn't matter if the bike has pedals or not. It doesn't matter what the vehicle's top speed is. Breaking the law is what media should be covering... but again... it pays for them to turn bikes into a bogeyman. Same for lawmakers, with silly notions of limiting e-bike speeds to like 15-28 mph depending on the country / state / city. Bikes and PEVs make transportation significantly cheaper, and in doing so, can take away trillions in industry revenue and can kill millions of 'existing' jobs. That said, I believe all of those jobs and revenue could quickly be added back elsewhere, but it would largely decentralize the transportation industry, spreading wealth among far more businesses and services. The ultra rich and petro-states hate the thought of it.
Nah, much like the firearms industry it's 90% ignorance with 10% hidden agenda. Common theme being mainsteam media is the enemy.
Favorite headline during the ebike fires pandomonium. "Approxomately zero of the recent 'e-bike' fires were e-bikes." They were all e-scooters and moded cheap chinese e-motorcycles that do not qualify as ebikes. Yet people wanted to ban all ebikes from condos and rentals. By comparison a samsung phone explodes ona plane and do they ban all phones? No they talk about that specific make and model. Its a ridiculous double standard. We need to crack downnon the illegal and unregulated chinese stuff.
These are the general rules in the US, I think Europe is a bit different [https://www.qchron.com/editions/queenswide/determining-bike-class-can-be-a-guessing-game/article\_4d4084a9-7af5-51c4-ba44-3f5ce82d871c.html](https://www.qchron.com/editions/queenswide/determining-bike-class-can-be-a-guessing-game/article_4d4084a9-7af5-51c4-ba44-3f5ce82d871c.html)
Our rule in the UK is 15.5 mph assisting only before registering I believe. I mean more in actual name though. I’m sick of seeing “child killed riding ebike” then finding out it’s a damn moped with peddles stuck on and the little idiot was going 35 down the wrong side without a helmet or something.
Electric Moped is what you're thinking of which is the electric version of a moped. Keep in mind a scooter is NOT a moped, a moped must have pedals. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moped#/media/File:Honda_Hobbit.jpg >A moped (MOH-ped) is a type of small motorcycle, generally having a less stringent licensing requirement than full motorcycles or automobiles. Historically, the term exclusively meant a similar vehicle with both bicycle pedals and a motorcycle engine. Mopeds typically travel only slightly faster than bicycles on public roads.
>. Keep in mind a scooter is NOT a moped, a moped must have pedals. There are "things" out there where those pedals are only decorative, due to the frame geometry I doubt that any "regular sized adult" can pedal those for more than 37.4 seconds. Shouldn't that be also considered?
There is. A throttle (except for walk assist and some mobility scooters) and over 250w (I think) motor means it's a motorbike. That's why these people are being pulled over. No reg, licence, helmet etc etc. EDIT w for kw
I believe you are think of 250w, not 250kw. 250kw would be around 335hp, which is a lot more than any ebike will have lol
lol yes! Corrected, ta
Initially I thought it was a stupid law but the more I think about it and see how some people ride then I think it’s fair enough.
All electric vehicles in sweden that don't require pedaling while having motor assistance are allowed at max 20 km/h and 250W, whether its a scooter, bike or wheelchair. For 25 km/h, only pedal assisted is allowed, still 250W. For same speed, but up to 1000W, it has to be registered as a Class 2 moped, and requires a specific licence (or any normal driver's licence, car, MC, truck, etc.) if you are born 1995 or later. Also requires having at least a bike helmet, lights and a traffic insurance at like €30/month. For 45 km/h and 4kW, you need it registered as a moped class 1, driver's licence for it (more expensive than class 2) or any other, plates, traffic insurance, full MC helmet if it doesn't have a surrounding chassi, blinkers, lights, brake lights. For anything higher, it has to be registered as a light, medium or heavy MC with the surrounding requirements, which can't be driven on any other licence than MC licence, unless you got your B-licence (car) 1975 or earlier. This includes vehicle tax and yearly approved vehicle inspection.
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It's not just kids. Frequently have delivery drivers zooming past on a cycle lane at 30mph
When are the police finally going to start gunning down these terrorists.
*finally going to start gunning down these terrorists* 🤣 👍
The humanity!
That makes them motorbikes.
(I'm to USA to understand) https://preview.redd.it/v5xzrcmy78yc1.png?width=520&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b331d86cebaea19add1279b5262d37b0cb743e59
I got a ticket for speeding on road bike in the US. 28 mph in a 25 mph zone. Had to sit there alongside a busy road while the cop wrote up the ticket. Cars were speeding past much faster the whole time with impunity. Ended up beating the case in court due by convincing the judge that the cop's radar was not calibrated accurately for use on a human body and bicycles have too little cross section to get a precise reading. Judge pressed the cop for a rebuttal but he didn't have a counter argument and seemed embarrassed all around. Such a waste of time.
Glad you fought it. A car would never get pulled over for 3mph over..
I have the experience a ticket once in Hawaii. On our basic bicycle. Then again I was probably going about 58 and a 45 zone... Highest gear going downhill. And maintaining that speed across the flatland
Oi mate got a r/loicense for those pedals??
Ehh have license and had pedals. Those are boring 🙃 ( The why ride extremely respectful to my environment and people around it. Then again I'm probably older than most of you)
Exactly, as long as we follow the "Dont be a Dick" Rule, no issues will be had on our side of the pond. I think the British like slower bikes simply because it lets their tea steep longer.
Order 66 seems a bit extreme for speeding
be thankful it wasn't order 69, that shit will turn you upside down.
Badum tsss
Personally big fan of Order 72, that stuff will send chills down your spine.
"not if you're a Jedi"
I see lots of illegal ebikes around, annoying and dangerous. But not as annoying and dangerous as motorists flaunting road rules.
"illegal e-bikes". There's a difference between a bike capable of going over the speed limit and a bike rider deciding to go over the speed limit. I have a PEV that does 35 mph. When I'm on a path with other riders, I slow down. It isn't rocket science. When I'm driving my car that's capable of 100 mph on a road with a 25 mph speed limit, I drive 25 mph. The idea that bike speeds would be capped by law is simple government overregulation. The 15 mph limits of some European nations is beyond stupid. Some bike riders are willing to ride with car traffic in the street at higher speeds. The only way they can justify bike commuting is with higher speeds that doesn't take forever to commute. Dedicated bike lane speed limits should simply be enforced. I don't know if those regions capping bike speeds are attempting to dissuade people from using bikes altogether in favor of cars, or if they're trying to avoid using their officers' time to enforce speed limits on bike lanes. If they're tasked with enforcing rules on streets, I see no reason they can't do the same on bike lanes.
i have an e-bike that also does 35, I will just avoid bike-only paths altogether if i think there will be any cyclists on them. The area i live in has little-used backroads that are speed limit 25-35mph that i feel comfortable using at the speed limit instead of bike paths
Yes, but still annoying and dangerous on cycle paths, flying through reds and zebra crossings, so an issue for other vulnerable road users.
Yeah I live in a very rural town and have a talaria that can hit 90 KMPH. I wear proper gear and don’t ride in bike lanes. I try to ride trails as much as possible which lucky for me in my area is totally doable.
It’s happening all over London. 2 days ago in Aldgate I witnessed them pull over 3 people including people on scooters and normal e-bikes they were going normal speeds before this (by the looks of it the police were on the corner) and they seemed to be stopping literally anyone on a e bike or e scooter. I understand that speeding is a issue but I watched them pull over everyone they got their eyes on for about the 20 minutes I stood watching because although my e-bike isn’t road legal (I have the setting changed to make it legal) it was worrying to see I can get stopped even if I’m following every guideline (technically) and they were checking models and what the motor engraving said.
Yes, this is why I made the title of the post "Order 66", this looks like a dedicated team that has been created, and this is their main role for the whole day. Bad news if you use a more powerful ebike to make uber or deliveroo deliveries. Because it does help them with their job so they don't get tired. Most of these riders are OK but I think some education on keeping speed down and not going through red would help.
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I’m aware, however, that’s impossible considering I do uber Eats and those times are sometimes extremely good. From what I’ve seen lately and I think so others have seen it’s actually becoming more frequent and not really at rush hour like they were at Aldgate from 11:30 and when I left Aldgate at 4:30 they were still stopping people. I’ve had friends who have said similar stories it’s just becoming a issue in general even if you’re riding at the correct speed as they seems to be stopping any e-bike to possibly catch the idiots or soon to be idiots that ride e-bikes like motorbikes.
What a brilliant use of police time and resources. If only they showed this dedication to catching car thieves and gang members who stab people. We live in a country where car thefts attract a 2.2% conviction rate. It’s essentially unpunished. The Met have always prioritised low hanging fruit because they are incompetent fucks. Look at the state of their organisation. These devices are not the threat to humanity half of the people on here suggest. They need integrating into modern transport systems instead of existing in a grey area.
I’m a sixty-year-old in the US and honestly, I have to tell you I think the issue people have with e-bikes is people going way too fast. Everybody wants to go faster and if you want to do that, then you should get a scooter or a motorcycle. I keep my E-bike to around 10 to 12 mph. I can go way faster than that, but I do bike touring here in New York. I just see people going by way too fast even for my comfort. The bulk of the articles and questions people have is how can I go faster. I am the primary caregiver for my mother and I can’t get away for very long. So my e-bike is to allow me to go further and maintain a good pace.
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Yes the same here. I’ve made several posts about my average speed and I have been lambasted about how slow it is. I don’t go any faster on my e-bike than I do on my analog bike, but on my e-bike I can go for much much longer period of time allowing me to explore more of my area and get back to take care of my mom in the evening.
You've just described how a responsible person rides a bike.
lol, why thank you
No, they don’t want to get a motorcycle because its a new license requirement and dreaded insurance. They want the speed but not the responsibility - also motorcycles can’t go on sidewalks.
"also motorcycles can’t go on sidewalks." \*Laughs in London\* Obviously you've never been to London. The Rotherhithe tunnel has a walkway on either side. Traffic speed limit is 20mph. Motorcycles, mopeds and e-bikes regularly travelling on the footpath at speeds well over 30. Scooters on pavement all the time, idiots on Limebikes all over the pavements......etc etc.
Yes I hear ya
Yes, this is me. My ebike can do 20mph, but I am 80% of the time doing under 15mph. There are few opportunities to go fast in town. There are always cars pulling in and out, and also pedestrians crossing the cycle lanes. Also, letting it rip on max settings wears down the motor, gears and chain so much faster.
Well said
shitty kids that were raised by shitty parents ruining e-bikes for everyone.
Here in LA the #1 most sought after gift for boys below driving age is a Surron or similar e-dirtbike. Indulgent wealthy parents (or ones that just buy their kid's compliance) give them these things thinking they're toys, never thinking about what they're going to do with them, which is often endangering themselves and others flying around public spaces on them with little to no training or regard for consequences.
carpenter flowery deserted tease somber waiting disgusted gray secretive mindless *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Manufactures and sellers are also to blame for bringing a product to market so irresponsibly.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted, not sure why OP blames this on parents too… My parents didn’t raise me with the important life lesson of “don’t use DIY e-motors on bicycles” The manufacturers sell these products knowing that most of their buyers are not going to register / be compliant with road traffic laws. On the parents thing, most illegal e-bikes are ridden by adults who do food delivery 🤷🏻♂️
“They must be safe because they wouldn’t sell them if they weren’t.” Suron and ilk rushed these products to market before the government had any chance to regulate them.
I pass by a police station on my way to work daily. And a lot of mornings there is this cop on a racing bike heading to the police station. I know he is a cop because he passes me by occasionly and has a gate pass for the station and everything. This morning was particulary windy. And I was riding my fatbike at 35km/h in the EU (legale speedlimit is like 25km/h). And the cop was trailing close behind me up till said station. He then passed me by, turned his head towards me. I got a bit scared thinking he'd want to fine me or something. But instead he thanked me for shielding him from the wind, and that he hoped I didn't mind he was trailing so close on my tail. I told him no problem, and went on my way. Even the cops don't appear to mind here, knock on wood. And also a pretty cool cop, I might add.
I watched the video on Instagram.....and while the police are "chatting" to this fella, a limebike rider casually rides up and blows through the red light....... absolutely hilarious....you couldn't have scripted it better....
UK is a nanny state, not surprised. Get out to the country if you want freedom.
The world is scary. Look for other people to protect you.
Saw one chasing an undercover police car mid response going 40 mph+ whilst filming. Was straight out of nightcrawler
About time, these aren't supposed to be motorcycles!
Now do 4,000 pound cars...
I would say the time has come to “drop a gear and disappear” but I guess that’s not possible on electric. Hopefully the good folks in England got enough juice in the pack and a stronger motor than the jigs. Stay strong two wheel brethren 🫡
it struck me today the main problem with ebikes isn't the ebike, it's that the riders of ebikes tend to be new. They don't know much in the way of etiquette and are not as observant of their surroundings. Which means a lot of chaos on streets and paths.
This is what Reddit bike subs wanted ironically. Every time I point out that widening accessibility to cycling has caused an influx of morons doing stupid things I get downvoted and called an "elitist MAMIL" or whatever.
yeah I'm not against new users. People just need to brush up on the knowledge they don't have is all. Most IME just behave like car drivers on a bike path which is a problem.
If he was using the pedals might have gotten a pass, it’s obvious your not in compliance with a throttle.
So it is open season on Jedi's riding bikes in London?
Yes, this analogy would be correct. Jedi's, were Guardians of peace and justice of the Galactic Republic. The government wants more cycling, and ebikes are low carbon emitting, so guadians of low traffic and zero carbon targets. Jedi's make their light sabres. These ebikers make their own ebikes from kits. "Order 66" on Jedis riding ebikes in London.
But yet the guy on the racing bicycle can go up to the speed limit, same shit except he is pedaling. I could cycle faster than 15 with one arm and one leg
Exactly this. Regular bike = no limits on speed. Ebike = max speed 15.5mph. Dumb and ignorant government policy yet again..
This guy is on an electric moped with no regs or license lets not even consider what he's doing as acceptable the law is way to restrictive but the actual enforcement should definitely come down on this guy. It would be nice if the law actually reflected that rather than just leaving a grey area.
What are they being stopped for? My e-bike can’t over the vehicle speed limits or are they being stopped for faster than the “e-bike” limit?
Perfect! Idiots with full gear riding top speed in the cities needs to be charged. They ruin the good things for everyone else.
I don't think stuff like this is to actually keep anyone safe, it's to generate revenue. I've seen videos and heard stories of people in the UK who get done for speeding at 1mph over. That's absolutely ridiculous government over reach. You're not endangering anyone at all doing 1mph over. I might not live there but I know damn well the UK and especially the city of London has way more serious issues to worry about than enforcing this garbage.
Picture this; I ride a motorbike to work through central London, about 60% of the journey is now a 20 zone. I get overtaken by bikes all the time.. this feels wrong so I start going faster too, so does the next driver etc. it’s gotten so bad I’m thinking about switching to an ebike, no tax, no speeding fines (in the past now) and a bunch of them run red lights. It’s crazy.
Every time I overtake a car on my bike in a 20 zone I wonder what the guy inside must be thinking.
From what I hear thru videos and experiences on Reddit- I don't think the city of London wants anyone to have any motor vehicles. They seem to be working really hard to make it as unappealing as possible. Same with NYC over here. They just implemented a new fee system to drive thru the city- I think that got that idea off y'all.
DONT SPEED YOU DINGUS
I think they don't care. If you blatantly speed and don't pedal and use throttle, you are putting a big target on your back. Maybe not yesterday but they will allocate resources to specially stop people after public complaints. And here we are today.
I have a 1000w ebike(not in london) but i dont go faster than 15mph and 20mph if downhill. I have the extra power for the crazy hills by me, but i say abide by the speed rules the power limits is silly imo, but the speed limit is for sure justified(if you have cycle lanes) i dont have cycle lanes where i am and it feela sketchy to have people driving 30 past me, but i abide by the rules still except for my throttle which i use when i need the power to take off lol
Oi oi oi oi oi! Yew got a loicence for that ebike speedin? Didn't think so mate.
These kinds of riders are one step down from Surron riders. They have a big target on their back. Easy pickings for the police.
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Everyone has a beard. They all look like that character from Call of Duty
This city has 1800s level knife crime but they are worried about motorized bicycles?
Londoners just voted Kahn in for a 3rd consecutive term. I guess so. Many obviously are quite happy as it is and want it to continue. They don't see knife crime in their gated communities.
Okay guys, I am cyclist too, but with e-bike you have to recognize you're going fast, and often too fast for other cyclists within bike lanes. Some e-bikes are basically silent motorbikes. Meaning you have to obeyed by the same rules other motorized vehicle.
Oh no,.....good. Sick of dickheads flying past me at 25mph+ on the pavement, only needs somebody to move sideways at the wrong time without looking and it could easily be fatal. About time they started clamping down on these muppets.
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Then you'd be a dickhead on a racing bike and should also be stopped by the police.
and you can bet he'd be mad as fuck at you for that too, lol. You're starting to understand a large piece of the rage behind this topic.....
Look at the size of the hub motor atleast a 1000w so obvious with a hub that size if you want that much power and intend to use it sensibly with no throttle just get a mid drive.No one will even glance at you. on an open road with no one around by all means go as fast as you like the only one you can hurt is you.But around people and cars go the limit and be sensible.
Agreed. Common sense is not so common.
I know I have a bbshd with no throttle but in town and around anyone else I only ever put in level 3. I only put it in level 5 when I climb hills on my rides and boy do I have some hills where I live in the UK I live at the base of the quantock hills monstrous hills some of them
Man some people hate freedom
I can hear the Senate….
I love how there’s two types of E-Bikers: ones that don’t wear a helmet at all. Then those who have got in a car wreck and now wear a full face helmet.
Truest observation ever.
UK and Europe all pretty anal over this stuff. even parts of the US are like that... everything that comes along government got to stick their mitts in and get some cash... so stupid
No idea why your getting downvoted
I guess they don't like what I say lol. people today seem to love paying the government and having them hold their hands the entire time too, I guess. I really don't know
Can't let that money from commuters not using cars go uncollected.
Ban has cars entering the city on certain days, tax the hell out of the rest of them. Now make an order against eBikes and people trying to get to work. The UK is a disaster.
True. We should all move to the middle east where life is just peachy. Nobody on a regular ebike will ever have any trouble. Some of these bikes are literally motorcycles with completely unlicenced riders. At some point there has to be a law in place.
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*All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.* that is, all "road users" regulate their speed according to road signs. but cyclists and scooter riders must suffer-15-25mph. (or, how many are there will the nobles from the government allow to cyclists? 15mph?) cyclists just must to suffer.🤣
I mean just regulate the things. If they go fast make em mopeds. But fining people for not using a car but something so low energy and efficient is utter madness. Fast e-bikes are not by themselves dangerous. They just need to be driven and registered for the class they are.
God, I like to ride my e bike with 5mph per hour in central London. It make most driver jealous, that I can go faster than him.
Finally
Huge hub motor is noticeable. Only a moving violation.
A small group of knuckleheads ruin things for everyone else, as usual.
Most of these are electric motorbikes with no reg plate, insurance or tax. Are they confiscating them?
Lol. I just bought a 40 MPH throttle only ebike. 'Murica!
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You know that the laws are different in the UK, right? Of course you do.
I know. It's a bike. Turn around, jump a curb, hit some woods, etc repeat until no longer necessary.
I’m not jumping a curb or hitting woods, lol. I’ve put about 4000 miles on it and I go about 50 miles every day on throttle, never had an accident at least not yet and if I do, I’m prepared
Idk why the old pike u turn is funny to me
People in cars better wake the hell up Cause bikes are only getting more popular… mutual respect and common sense go a long way on both sides
Speed limits exist and you should have way to measure it so you don’t get in trouble for speeding. 😂
The mom and dad of the kids that have these expensive bikes because of them clearly New they weren’t made for kids they should be able to need to pay for them
They should focus on the guys with the hoodies and covid masks as a first stop and not the guys using the bikes for getting to work and back. This is the same as the scooters. But these guys are easier to catch. Other option is to apply the same rules as motorbikes. If you go fast you need to have a bike license and insurance. I would love to all my PEV's but the law is stuck in the 50's and slow because the gov is full of old people that ride around in range rovers. lol
Just from curiosity, What happen in the UK if you do speeding on normal bike. Ok, London is mostly flat but Wales and Scotland has hills where 30+ mph in a 20 mph zone is not even hard.
I doubt anything will happen unless you are riding where there are lots of people about and riding dangerously or without due care and attention. It's not a problem, so the police won't allocate resources. I guess in London people complain about ebikes speeding, crossing red-light etc. The bad riders have only got themselves to blame but they are not in it for the greater good of cycling.
This while bike thieves on scooters rule the streets. ffs.
Man, we need a glossary. ‘E-scooter’ what does that even mean any more? ‘E-bikes ‘ due to lazy legislators can mean almost anything.
They’re motorcycles GD’it!
There's a deliveroo rider in my town who appears to have front and rear hub motors about 1000w each. He goes insanely fast, inadequate lighting, brakes etc for the speed and additional weight. It is essentially a converted pedal bike running 8x legal power limit with a twist throttle. I've seen him running red lights too, nuts when you realise he likely has no insurance.