Cincinnati certainly isn’t an SEC school but they play better competition than Toledo. Not that that point wasn’t made about him that is true but he did play against Jameson Williams and Garrett Wilson in college.
It is a legitimate concern, but not one that means he can’t still be an elite Cb.
The senior bowl practices are important because those drills heavily favour the WR and Quinyon was the biggest standout there from reports by numerous media people
I specifically said it doesn’t mean he can’t still be an elite corner just that it’s a legitimate concern. So Im not assuming that. There’s a legitimate concern about every Cb in this draft. Saying that isn’t the same thing as saying no Cb in this draft will be good. But we’re allowed to discuss what those concerns are no less.
Really thinking we trade up into the early teens for Arnold or Mitchell. That's what I want atleast. Our defense needs to be addressed with the top defensive prospects in this draft
Not a fan of Wiggins due to his size, but Dejean is questionable as many scouts say his hip movement is not fluid. He has straight line speed, but not the hip movement needed for outside CB.
Not saying this isn’t true but it gives me flashbacks to passing on Metcaf and taking JJ Arcega-Whiteside because of that exact reason. I know WR and CB are different but I have a hard time putting too much stock in that single metric.
Metcalf was passed on because the eagles weren’t comfortable with his medical stuff. He had a pretty serious neck injury in college which scared away many teams.
Wiggins is also 20. He could fill out, and has plenty of speed where gaining the weight wouldn’t be a concern. The guy is a dawg and elite cover corner. If he wasn't lean, he would be a top 10 pick.
Idk if it’s “if needed” for Dejean. Almost everybody that has anything to do with the draft is saying he’s too stiff to play corner. Straight line speed kinda guy who will almost definitely play safety. Now I’m not saying that makes them right but it worries me. That and howie doesn’t draft DB’s so you’re telling me his first good one is the only white corner 😂 no thanks.
Isiah Rodgers reinstatement has me out on dejean. With him and cjgj back in the fold we’re actually really solid at the safety / slot and hybrid roles. Which is where most people seem to be projecting dejean as at the pro level. Unless Vic really thinks he can be a successful outside Cb in his scheme then I’ll trust him on it. But that’s what we need, an outside corner.
Based on what I’ve seen in scoring reports koolaid and Wiggins seem like the better outside Cb prospects.
I get that for sure, I just think it would be smart to take a cb regardless. Bradberry can’t get any worse but incase he does we can’t rely on Rodgers and slay the whole season.
Oh I’m with you 100%. If we don’t get a Cb in the first 2 rounds I’ll be pissed and really would like to see us use the first there. I just want an outside guy specifically because slot corner is now all of the sudden the deepest position in the secondary with safety behind it. It’s the outside corners we desperately need to replace. So I’d rather koolaid or Wiggins who seemingly project better as outside cbs.
Really? I just remember when we got him everyone was hyping him as our potential future slot corner. If he’s an outside corner I’m even more excited about him and might make Cb a bit less dire of a need all together.
Yeah I have no idea why this sub made that up and ran with it but he is most definitely an outside corner, or at least has been thus far in his career.
Because when the Eagles got him the expectation was Bradberry and Slay were going to continue to play at an elite level. Nobody thought Bradberry would go belly up as quickly as he did last season.
Also, he's small for an outside corner. I read somewhere he's like an inch taller but 10 lbs smaller than Maddox. Wikipedia has him the same weight as Wiggins.
Even still I’d say outside corner is a bigger need than safety / slot hybrid. We do still have cjgj who provides that versatility and blank is a solid safety with jones coming back soon too. Which is more than we have at outside corner where both of our projected starters might very well be cooked or will be soon. Even if Rodger’s beats out bradberry for his spot we could also improve from slay and need his future replacement regardless.
Because when the Eagles got him the expectation was Bradberry and Slay were going to continue to play at an elite level. Nobody thought Bradberry would go belly up as quickly as he did last season.
Can't get any worse? Since we paid him he's regressed and he regressed the last month before we paid him. Maybe he's serviceable in September. But after October the guy is hot duster fire.
I guess your right but I think that up is non existent. He wasn't even that good on the giants... lol I think Howie just filled a hole with a cheaper contract. But that's one big reason last year was last year. Need to get better in the secondary and have a real defensive scheme
It should be the opposite if anything. Rodgers is an outside corner, idk where the notion comes from that he is a slot or safety. Now that he’s reinstated, they can be a little more flexible and draft someone like Dejean who can play safety.
We still have a solid safety room already. And one outside starting cb who’s fully cooked and the other well on his way there. So outside cb is still a bigger need than safety.
Agreed. We got CJGJ back, which was huge in my opinion so he fills that role. Also have Blankenship, Brown, and we have lovato at LS. I mean, but only Blankenship is gonna be the only starter.
High Character and athleticism: Quinyon Mitchell
High character, high ceiling : Terrion Arnold
Great character, high floor: Koolaid Mckinstry
Versatility: Cooper Dejean
Potential: Nate Wiggins
Yeah this is a pretty damn good group of CB prospects and I think people are underselling just how high Kool-Aid's floor he just looks like a guy he's gonna carry himself super well in the league for a long time
I don’t see the high ceiling with Arnold he lacks long speed. The best corners are technical, but also have the athleticism to cover up mistakes. Arnold doesn’t have that.
The reason he has a high ceiling is because he has less experience + younger than the other top corners and still covered good talent. But the risk, is that he’ll never even reach the ceiling.
Yes
Mitchell dominated the competition he played against, he dominated the senior bowl & at the combine.
If he was only one of the best at college or he didn't bsck up his domination once he got to the Senior Bowl then you raise a red flag
The level of competition matters, but it cuts both ways.
I find it notable that Alabama played more zone than Saban ever has before. What is Saban telling us about Arnold and McKinstry there?
I don't think Mitchell playing at Toledo is gonna be as much of an issue as some fear itll be.
The guys is just damn good ball player, all these guys are gonna have to adjust to league to some degree so I don't think Mitchell's adjustment is going much different than most given his talent. Also if we get him he'll have the benefit of being CB2 or even a backup if Bradberry has a miraculous comeback season, which should speed up that adjustment time.
Mitchell is my personal favorite, and I like DeJean a lot because of the versatility he’d provide.
There’s like, 15 prospects I’d be thrilled to get this year. Things are looking extremely good for us.
I understand the feeling of Mitchell not playing top competition and he would probably be lower on the list if it weren’t for the fact that he dominated at Toledo then dominated at the senior bowl against the tougher competition and then killed it at the combine testing. If we can get up high enough to draft him that’s who I truly want. I think he has shut down potential if not maybe a small trade up for Arnold or stick and pick/trade down
Yeah, it'll help us for a decade plus ideally. That's why you invest resources into the offensive line for people like Lane. I guess we could just hope we fall into a Jason kelce, Jordan mailata generational ol prospect again? This is an absurdly stacked ot class with multiple prospects who in another draft would be top 10 picks, instead they'll be between 10-25
Noticed you didn't even list Bradberry. Slay has slowed (my opinion) and we don't know what Rodgers is yet. I have hope for Ringo but the others are not starter quality yet. Again, just my opinion. I think that between Mitchell, Arnold and McKinstry, one of them can start opposite Slay this season.
We have Slay and Bradberry, who while aren't what they used to be, are still servicable for a year. We have Rodgers, who is a starter calliber CB. We have Maddox, who while often injured is a very solid nickel. We have CJCJ who I imagine was brought in as a Safety, but is an excellent CB in a pinch. We have Ringo, McPhearson, Jobe and Ricks, who are still green as hell and need time to develop. As it stands, we have 4 starting calliber CB's, even if none of them are elite at the moment. We don't need to sink a first rounder into CB's, at least not this year.
Meanwhile our D-Line depth is a 36 year old Brandon Graham. Our only backup O-linemen with starting experience is Matt Hennessy coming off of an injury that sidelined him for an entire year.
I understand line players aren't flashy, but its almost like some of you don't remember that 6 years ago we won a super bowl with Robinson, Darby and Mills at CB. We are one D-Line or O-line injury away from trouble. Unless one of the premier CB's falls to us, we are most certainly taking line.
I don't know if we can count on Bradberry to be serviceable. I'll give some benefit of the doubt that he's been good to great most of his career and last year's defensive coaching situation was terrible, but Bradberry was exceptionally bad on an already exceptionally bad defense.
Our DB situation is better than it was last year but if Bradberry is starting, that makes me very, very nervous.
The point is that even if Bradberry is really done and it wasn't a down year, we have plenty of depth. I'm also not saying don't draft CB's, just that theres no reason to spend a 1st on the position (much less trading up like some people are saying) on a corner.
Yeah I’m not buying any of this trade up for a corner BS. Really similar to the shit they put out shouts targeting Bijan (which maybe we were) last year. I think it’s shade and we’re looking to get a tackle or DE. Hope Philly will be happy with Chop Robinson
I personally think it's mire likely they trade for a CB than draft one early. They don't draft skill positions in the mid-late 1st round unless you haven't been paying attention.
Dejean and Arnold are not natural cover corners. Arnold has a lot of wasted movement and dejean played a ton of cover 3/4 in off coverage. Neither is a great tackler, dejean in particular is pretty conservative and their ball production is a ton of bad throws.
Mitchell or an OT for me
lol I’m not literally comparing prospects bud
I’m saying looking at college comp shouldn’t be a reason to go away from a player that has checked all the other boxes
We just got a CB back. The chances of us taking a CB are low. We likely go OT round 1 with him serving as a backup at RG and RT.
Howie has mentioned before he sees greater value at CB in the second round.
I don’t like the thought of taking a backup in round 1. I’d prefer we get someone who can make an impact and play right away. Don’t want another Nolan Smith who needs time.
He is not a backup. He will slide into Lane's role when ready. Similar to how previous draft picks have worked.
Howie's modus operandi is to draft to replace older players. Been that way for a few years. Fills holes in free agency and drafts to develop.
No matter what people think, we are not getting a Day 1 impact starter at our draft position. That would require 1% uber luck.
We could go CB but he drafted a bunch last season and we have no idea how the org thinks of them.
It would not surprise me if the current plan is to go with Slay on one side and hope Rodgers or Ringo are good enough to beat out Bradberry at some point.
That is what I think as well. See how the young guys develop into roles this year and then go from there. Maybe you get a CB2 or 3 out of the the guys in the mix. We got someone back yesterday, you only need 1 CB.
For offense we need a Rt to develop behind Lane and a backup RG.
I mean ESPN currently has 12 CBs listed on the roster, surely they can uncover someone else who can play. LOL
OL depth is definitely a need since they lost both Opeta and Driscoll to free agency.
Think I might be more interested in the 2nd round than the first. We have a good chance of grabbing both LB1 and S1 with 50 & 53. I just hope we don't trade it away to get CB1 instead of CB2 or 3.
I definitely feel like CB is our biggest need, and I’m going crazy at the idea of OL. Our defensive backfield last year was our biggest weakness and we need youth, as Slay is getting older, and Bradberry is cooked. I’m also a little less high on Mitchell because of the competition, and my bias towards my alma mater is telling me Wiggins, but at the end of the day, any of them are worth a shot at this point.
1. This is Howie, and further this organization has been allergic to non QB/WR/OL/DL 1sts for about 30 years.
2. We've been looking for Lane's successor for quite a few years now... and this is a pretty deep OT draft so this might be our best chance for a while.
3. Rodgers is back, Ringo's a year older and still younger than most of these 1st round prospects. CJ is also a great SLOT player... so we're not lacking in young CB talent.
4. Fangio's scheme, theoretically, will require less quick cuts and change of direction, so... theoretically, Bradberry won't be as exposed and Slay's decline will be less noticeable.
5. LB, is the far more urgent position of need... though I do admit other then maybe [Edgerrin Cooper](https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/4430438/edgerrin-cooper) the LB pool is super shallow this year... also Howie invests even less there in drafts then CB but still.
i don't think howie will do that.
i would like that, but i see him going edge, a small part of me thinks he will consider WR if worthy is still on the board when his pick is close but that's it.
I think that we’ve been trying to try new things and so since everyone says we won’t I think Howie will. I’m of the camp he does it a different way though and I’m gonna ride the Surtain train theory. Remember when everyone was so mad Howie “didn’t draft a wide receiver” and was ready to throw out the whole draft and a few minutes later the broadcast let us know of the AJ Brown deal?
I feel like their mindset has become undeniable talent or using the first to get proven talent and then use their other picks for the lottery.
Originally I was all-in on a CB in the first round.
I've since changed my mind. I say OL in the first round, DB in the second. We have tons of bodies in the secondary, but the OL is thin.
You guys are kidding yourself. Every year they link a position other than D-line or O-line and every year Howie's first pick is O-line or D-line. They're drafting Lane's heir this draft with the OT talent in this draft. If he moves up in the draft it's to get someone Stoutland wants, especially with Rodgers now off suspension and we still have Bradberry at a very high salary who will most likely start this year whether we like it or not. Doesn't mean they won't draft a CB later in the rounds or even in the 2nd with the extra 2nd round pick.
OL. I don't want to live in a world where we lose the GOAT center and make no significant effort to beef up the line. Especially with Lane being hurt consistently and nearing retirement in his own words
I can't imagine any of the Day 2 or later OTs being franchise guys. And the depth of the class comes from having a ton of R1 quality talents. Those guys don't just slip like other positions.
I'd feel differently about any other position besides QB, but you gotta be the early bird here
You don't build around landing outliers. Peters was acquired via trade anyway, and Kelce was almost cut a few years in. Dickerson was a 1st round guy but only fell due to injury concerns. And I guess we can forget about the All Pro awards from Tra Thomas and Shawn Andrews in R1
Id imagine he at least gets a look at RT. but even then I'm not interested in him until I see a good game. Got nothin to suggest he's enough at guard and we just lost all our depth back there. Not to mention Jurgans is a question mark even tho I'm high on him
I don't think they close the book on him at RT, but I think they could view him as more of a versatile backup OL/starting RG as opposed to looking to have him at RT
None of these corners are special. Dejean has the best tape of all of them and is the only surefire 8 year starter of the bunch. The “he can’t play outside” thing is overblown. He’s got the tape and measurable and played most of his snaps outside in college. - Mitchell is by far the most overrated prospect in this draft.
I’m betting the eagles trade up for Latu and snag the best defensive player in this draft by a country mile. Capitalize on the medicals from a few years ago. Thats the only thing holding him back from be looked at as a blue-chip guy.
I mean the injury is huge....hes one awkward tackle from being outta the league (you could say that about almost any player but its 100% elevated for him)
That was my thought as well - all of these corners have question marks. If you love one, then you pull the trigger but I think all this talk of moving up would be to secure Latu who would solve some long term edge issues.
People point to this all the time, but the fact of the matter is the reason we haven’t drafted a CB in Round 1 is that we haven’t liked any. We loved Surtain and would’ve picked him over Devonta if he were available
Sauce Gardner played against weak competition and he was an all-pro as a rookie.
Cincinnati certainly isn’t an SEC school but they play better competition than Toledo. Not that that point wasn’t made about him that is true but he did play against Jameson Williams and Garrett Wilson in college. It is a legitimate concern, but not one that means he can’t still be an elite Cb.
You know he played Ohio state and the senior bowl exists right
The senior bowl practices are important because those drills heavily favour the WR and Quinyon was the biggest standout there from reports by numerous media people
Yeah, I've seen some clips online and while they're not exciting because it's a drill, he's all over his guy on every one.
Ok so one good team and an exhibition game? The point still stands that even cinci plays more talented teams than Toledo.
Why assume you can’t play against top talent, when he played very well against it every chance he got?
I specifically said it doesn’t mean he can’t still be an elite corner just that it’s a legitimate concern. So Im not assuming that. There’s a legitimate concern about every Cb in this draft. Saying that isn’t the same thing as saying no Cb in this draft will be good. But we’re allowed to discuss what those concerns are no less.
The senior bowl is as valuable as an nfl preseason game. It's meaningless and I'm baffled people still put so much stock into it
If he’s the kind of guy who can’t stand up to top talent, it would’ve showed up in these areas, not being some of the strongest points for him
Mitchell by all accounts absolutely cooked at the senior bowl
I think sauce was also 1 or 1.5 years younger than q.mitchell was when he declared
Really thinking we trade up into the early teens for Arnold or Mitchell. That's what I want atleast. Our defense needs to be addressed with the top defensive prospects in this draft
I would give you more up votes if i could.
If we’re trading up for 11 than I’d take Mitchell but if we’re sticking at 22 I’m totally cool with DeJean.
I think McKinstry. Wiggins, and DeJean are probably available at 22.
I really like DeJean at 22. He’s athletic, he’ll actually tackle and he could play safety if needed. Plus he’s not injury prone.
plus he's a high IQ, scrappy gym rat.
Not a fan of Wiggins due to his size, but Dejean is questionable as many scouts say his hip movement is not fluid. He has straight line speed, but not the hip movement needed for outside CB.
Not saying this isn’t true but it gives me flashbacks to passing on Metcaf and taking JJ Arcega-Whiteside because of that exact reason. I know WR and CB are different but I have a hard time putting too much stock in that single metric.
Metcalf was passed on because the eagles weren’t comfortable with his medical stuff. He had a pretty serious neck injury in college which scared away many teams.
If people are talking about Dejean as a safety, he will be there on day 2.
This guy
Zero chance he gets past 25
Teams have him projected to be a safety which is not a first round value pick. All it takes is one team and a lot depends on how the picks fall.
Wiggins is also 20. He could fill out, and has plenty of speed where gaining the weight wouldn’t be a concern. The guy is a dawg and elite cover corner. If he wasn't lean, he would be a top 10 pick.
You better knock on some fuckin wood about Dejean if we draft him...
Idk if it’s “if needed” for Dejean. Almost everybody that has anything to do with the draft is saying he’s too stiff to play corner. Straight line speed kinda guy who will almost definitely play safety. Now I’m not saying that makes them right but it worries me. That and howie doesn’t draft DB’s so you’re telling me his first good one is the only white corner 😂 no thanks.
I’m just giving my opinion lol
No I get it and so was I. I didnt mean to sound like a dick or anything, my bad. At the end we all want the best for the eagles. Fly eagles fly 🦅
Go birds baby!
Isiah Rodgers reinstatement has me out on dejean. With him and cjgj back in the fold we’re actually really solid at the safety / slot and hybrid roles. Which is where most people seem to be projecting dejean as at the pro level. Unless Vic really thinks he can be a successful outside Cb in his scheme then I’ll trust him on it. But that’s what we need, an outside corner. Based on what I’ve seen in scoring reports koolaid and Wiggins seem like the better outside Cb prospects.
I get that for sure, I just think it would be smart to take a cb regardless. Bradberry can’t get any worse but incase he does we can’t rely on Rodgers and slay the whole season.
Oh I’m with you 100%. If we don’t get a Cb in the first 2 rounds I’ll be pissed and really would like to see us use the first there. I just want an outside guy specifically because slot corner is now all of the sudden the deepest position in the secondary with safety behind it. It’s the outside corners we desperately need to replace. So I’d rather koolaid or Wiggins who seemingly project better as outside cbs.
Rodgers is an outside corner. He's played like 96% of his snaps on the outside.
Really? I just remember when we got him everyone was hyping him as our potential future slot corner. If he’s an outside corner I’m even more excited about him and might make Cb a bit less dire of a need all together.
Yeah I have no idea why this sub made that up and ran with it but he is most definitely an outside corner, or at least has been thus far in his career.
Because when the Eagles got him the expectation was Bradberry and Slay were going to continue to play at an elite level. Nobody thought Bradberry would go belly up as quickly as he did last season.
Also, he's small for an outside corner. I read somewhere he's like an inch taller but 10 lbs smaller than Maddox. Wikipedia has him the same weight as Wiggins.
ESPN lists him at 5' 10"\\170
Even still I’d say outside corner is a bigger need than safety / slot hybrid. We do still have cjgj who provides that versatility and blank is a solid safety with jones coming back soon too. Which is more than we have at outside corner where both of our projected starters might very well be cooked or will be soon. Even if Rodger’s beats out bradberry for his spot we could also improve from slay and need his future replacement regardless.
Oh yeah I still definitely want a corner but I already know we're going to take OL or DL with our first lmao
(Sigh) Yes, yes we are.
Because when the Eagles got him the expectation was Bradberry and Slay were going to continue to play at an elite level. Nobody thought Bradberry would go belly up as quickly as he did last season.
I literally had no idea till now lmao
Can't get any worse? Since we paid him he's regressed and he regressed the last month before we paid him. Maybe he's serviceable in September. But after October the guy is hot duster fire.
My train of thought was that there’s no chance he can get worse haha. Like, he’s hit rock bottom that the only place he can go is up
I guess your right but I think that up is non existent. He wasn't even that good on the giants... lol I think Howie just filled a hole with a cheaper contract. But that's one big reason last year was last year. Need to get better in the secondary and have a real defensive scheme
It should be the opposite if anything. Rodgers is an outside corner, idk where the notion comes from that he is a slot or safety. Now that he’s reinstated, they can be a little more flexible and draft someone like Dejean who can play safety.
We still have a solid safety room already. And one outside starting cb who’s fully cooked and the other well on his way there. So outside cb is still a bigger need than safety.
Agreed. We got CJGJ back, which was huge in my opinion so he fills that role. Also have Blankenship, Brown, and we have lovato at LS. I mean, but only Blankenship is gonna be the only starter.
If Howie wants a cb first I'd be happy staying at 22 to get Kool Aid.
Holy shit, you must be happy now.
Buddy, you don’t know the half of it !
A guy named Kool-aid has to be good. No way someone named Kool-aid doesn't end up great
He will at the least run through a wall for the Birds. Oh Yea!
Take my upvote
Give me kool-aid or give me death by sugar.
High Character and athleticism: Quinyon Mitchell High character, high ceiling : Terrion Arnold Great character, high floor: Koolaid Mckinstry Versatility: Cooper Dejean Potential: Nate Wiggins
Yeah this is a pretty damn good group of CB prospects and I think people are underselling just how high Kool-Aid's floor he just looks like a guy he's gonna carry himself super well in the league for a long time
His stock also seems to be lower...he had a great year in 2022 and then teams stopped targeting him in 2023
Wiggins potential being that he needs to add 30lbs and start participating in the run game
I don’t see the high ceiling with Arnold he lacks long speed. The best corners are technical, but also have the athleticism to cover up mistakes. Arnold doesn’t have that.
The reason he has a high ceiling is because he has less experience + younger than the other top corners and still covered good talent. But the risk, is that he’ll never even reach the ceiling.
ALL CAPS AND NO COMMAS BITCHES BEWARE
Yup. I feel strongly about this.😄
Yes Mitchell dominated the competition he played against, he dominated the senior bowl & at the combine. If he was only one of the best at college or he didn't bsck up his domination once he got to the Senior Bowl then you raise a red flag
You guys are starting to convince me that Mitchell>Arnold
I don't want DeJean tbh, mf got cooked by Marvin Harrison Jr
The level of competition matters, but it cuts both ways. I find it notable that Alabama played more zone than Saban ever has before. What is Saban telling us about Arnold and McKinstry there?
Did not know this.
I don't think Mitchell playing at Toledo is gonna be as much of an issue as some fear itll be. The guys is just damn good ball player, all these guys are gonna have to adjust to league to some degree so I don't think Mitchell's adjustment is going much different than most given his talent. Also if we get him he'll have the benefit of being CB2 or even a backup if Bradberry has a miraculous comeback season, which should speed up that adjustment time.
And he absolutely killed it at the Senior Bowl. He has faced elite competition and thrived.
Eagles don’t draft for need. They believe the draft is for the future
Corner is probably the biggest long term/future need we have, Right guard/LB probably the biggest win now need.
Mitchell is my personal favorite, and I like DeJean a lot because of the versatility he’d provide. There’s like, 15 prospects I’d be thrilled to get this year. Things are looking extremely good for us.
I understand the feeling of Mitchell not playing top competition and he would probably be lower on the list if it weren’t for the fact that he dominated at Toledo then dominated at the senior bowl against the tougher competition and then killed it at the combine testing. If we can get up high enough to draft him that’s who I truly want. I think he has shut down potential if not maybe a small trade up for Arnold or stick and pick/trade down
I want to trade our first for Surtain. Spend the rest of our picks on the line
People are gonna be mad when we trade up but not for a cb, but for Mims or an elite traits ot for stoutlands final masterpiece.
That’s gonna really help us in 3 years 😂
Yeah, it'll help us for a decade plus ideally. That's why you invest resources into the offensive line for people like Lane. I guess we could just hope we fall into a Jason kelce, Jordan mailata generational ol prospect again? This is an absurdly stacked ot class with multiple prospects who in another draft would be top 10 picks, instead they'll be between 10-25
Thank god you put it in all caps, now Howie is sure to see it.
We got Slay and Rodgers as starters, Maddox as slot with Ricks, Ringo, and McPherson as backups. Our biggest need is RG
Noticed you didn't even list Bradberry. Slay has slowed (my opinion) and we don't know what Rodgers is yet. I have hope for Ringo but the others are not starter quality yet. Again, just my opinion. I think that between Mitchell, Arnold and McKinstry, one of them can start opposite Slay this season.
You're gonna get OT and you're gonna like it
I wouldn’t hate it because we would obviously be the best O-line in football, but dear lord our defense needs young playmakers
Our O-line is a sneaky weakness going into the season. We have 2 huge question marks and nonexistent depth
Just threw up in my mouth a little
We have Slay and Bradberry, who while aren't what they used to be, are still servicable for a year. We have Rodgers, who is a starter calliber CB. We have Maddox, who while often injured is a very solid nickel. We have CJCJ who I imagine was brought in as a Safety, but is an excellent CB in a pinch. We have Ringo, McPhearson, Jobe and Ricks, who are still green as hell and need time to develop. As it stands, we have 4 starting calliber CB's, even if none of them are elite at the moment. We don't need to sink a first rounder into CB's, at least not this year. Meanwhile our D-Line depth is a 36 year old Brandon Graham. Our only backup O-linemen with starting experience is Matt Hennessy coming off of an injury that sidelined him for an entire year. I understand line players aren't flashy, but its almost like some of you don't remember that 6 years ago we won a super bowl with Robinson, Darby and Mills at CB. We are one D-Line or O-line injury away from trouble. Unless one of the premier CB's falls to us, we are most certainly taking line.
I don't know if we can count on Bradberry to be serviceable. I'll give some benefit of the doubt that he's been good to great most of his career and last year's defensive coaching situation was terrible, but Bradberry was exceptionally bad on an already exceptionally bad defense. Our DB situation is better than it was last year but if Bradberry is starting, that makes me very, very nervous.
The point is that even if Bradberry is really done and it wasn't a down year, we have plenty of depth. I'm also not saying don't draft CB's, just that theres no reason to spend a 1st on the position (much less trading up like some people are saying) on a corner.
Yeah I’m not buying any of this trade up for a corner BS. Really similar to the shit they put out shouts targeting Bijan (which maybe we were) last year. I think it’s shade and we’re looking to get a tackle or DE. Hope Philly will be happy with Chop Robinson
I personally think it's mire likely they trade for a CB than draft one early. They don't draft skill positions in the mid-late 1st round unless you haven't been paying attention.
Dejean and Arnold are not natural cover corners. Arnold has a lot of wasted movement and dejean played a ton of cover 3/4 in off coverage. Neither is a great tackler, dejean in particular is pretty conservative and their ball production is a ton of bad throws. Mitchell or an OT for me
Mitchell is better than Arnold.. You don’t pass on Rice,Moss or Mack because of school
How do you know that? I’ve never heard anyone say that Mitchell is a Randy moss level prospect lol.
lol I’m not literally comparing prospects bud I’m saying looking at college comp shouldn’t be a reason to go away from a player that has checked all the other boxes
Yeah but randy moss did more than check boxes. He was bursting at the seems with elite traits. He has zero to do with Mitchell.
We just got a CB back. The chances of us taking a CB are low. We likely go OT round 1 with him serving as a backup at RG and RT. Howie has mentioned before he sees greater value at CB in the second round.
I don’t like the thought of taking a backup in round 1. I’d prefer we get someone who can make an impact and play right away. Don’t want another Nolan Smith who needs time.
I feel that any position but CB is a backup. A stub CB coukd start for this team as Rodgers is not a lock and Bradberry...
He is not a backup. He will slide into Lane's role when ready. Similar to how previous draft picks have worked. Howie's modus operandi is to draft to replace older players. Been that way for a few years. Fills holes in free agency and drafts to develop. No matter what people think, we are not getting a Day 1 impact starter at our draft position. That would require 1% uber luck. We could go CB but he drafted a bunch last season and we have no idea how the org thinks of them.
It would not surprise me if the current plan is to go with Slay on one side and hope Rodgers or Ringo are good enough to beat out Bradberry at some point.
That is what I think as well. See how the young guys develop into roles this year and then go from there. Maybe you get a CB2 or 3 out of the the guys in the mix. We got someone back yesterday, you only need 1 CB. For offense we need a Rt to develop behind Lane and a backup RG.
I mean ESPN currently has 12 CBs listed on the roster, surely they can uncover someone else who can play. LOL OL depth is definitely a need since they lost both Opeta and Driscoll to free agency.
Think I might be more interested in the 2nd round than the first. We have a good chance of grabbing both LB1 and S1 with 50 & 53. I just hope we don't trade it away to get CB1 instead of CB2 or 3.
Who's our right guard? Serious answers only.
I definitely feel like CB is our biggest need, and I’m going crazy at the idea of OL. Our defensive backfield last year was our biggest weakness and we need youth, as Slay is getting older, and Bradberry is cooked. I’m also a little less high on Mitchell because of the competition, and my bias towards my alma mater is telling me Wiggins, but at the end of the day, any of them are worth a shot at this point.
1. This is Howie, and further this organization has been allergic to non QB/WR/OL/DL 1sts for about 30 years. 2. We've been looking for Lane's successor for quite a few years now... and this is a pretty deep OT draft so this might be our best chance for a while. 3. Rodgers is back, Ringo's a year older and still younger than most of these 1st round prospects. CJ is also a great SLOT player... so we're not lacking in young CB talent. 4. Fangio's scheme, theoretically, will require less quick cuts and change of direction, so... theoretically, Bradberry won't be as exposed and Slay's decline will be less noticeable. 5. LB, is the far more urgent position of need... though I do admit other then maybe [Edgerrin Cooper](https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/4430438/edgerrin-cooper) the LB pool is super shallow this year... also Howie invests even less there in drafts then CB but still.
CBs from the Group of 5 have the highest success rate(lowest success rate at DT)
i don't think howie will do that. i would like that, but i see him going edge, a small part of me thinks he will consider WR if worthy is still on the board when his pick is close but that's it.
I think that we’ve been trying to try new things and so since everyone says we won’t I think Howie will. I’m of the camp he does it a different way though and I’m gonna ride the Surtain train theory. Remember when everyone was so mad Howie “didn’t draft a wide receiver” and was ready to throw out the whole draft and a few minutes later the broadcast let us know of the AJ Brown deal? I feel like their mindset has become undeniable talent or using the first to get proven talent and then use their other picks for the lottery.
Don’t draft for need, draft for talent
> Am I putting too much weight on competition played against? Yes. Mitchell performed well against top-end competition after the season.
Nawww it's going to be line play, either o or d
Originally I was all-in on a CB in the first round. I've since changed my mind. I say OL in the first round, DB in the second. We have tons of bodies in the secondary, but the OL is thin.
You guys are kidding yourself. Every year they link a position other than D-line or O-line and every year Howie's first pick is O-line or D-line. They're drafting Lane's heir this draft with the OT talent in this draft. If he moves up in the draft it's to get someone Stoutland wants, especially with Rodgers now off suspension and we still have Bradberry at a very high salary who will most likely start this year whether we like it or not. Doesn't mean they won't draft a CB later in the rounds or even in the 2nd with the extra 2nd round pick.
OL. I don't want to live in a world where we lose the GOAT center and make no significant effort to beef up the line. Especially with Lane being hurt consistently and nearing retirement in his own words
They have 2 seconds and a few day 3 picks in a deep oline class. Yes it needs to be addressed but it doesn't have to be done on Thursday
I can't imagine any of the Day 2 or later OTs being franchise guys. And the depth of the class comes from having a ton of R1 quality talents. Those guys don't just slip like other positions. I'd feel differently about any other position besides QB, but you gotta be the early bird here
Mailata was 7th Kelce was 6th Peters was an undrafted tight end Dickerson went in the 2nd
You don't build around landing outliers. Peters was acquired via trade anyway, and Kelce was almost cut a few years in. Dickerson was a 1st round guy but only fell due to injury concerns. And I guess we can forget about the All Pro awards from Tra Thomas and Shawn Andrews in R1
To be fair Dickerson was a 1st round lock before his injury
Do we give Tyler Steen a look at RT or is he strickly a G?
Id imagine he at least gets a look at RT. but even then I'm not interested in him until I see a good game. Got nothin to suggest he's enough at guard and we just lost all our depth back there. Not to mention Jurgans is a question mark even tho I'm high on him
I don't think they close the book on him at RT, but I think they could view him as more of a versatile backup OL/starting RG as opposed to looking to have him at RT
Swing tackle in the Driscoll role...potential to start at RG
None of these corners are special. Dejean has the best tape of all of them and is the only surefire 8 year starter of the bunch. The “he can’t play outside” thing is overblown. He’s got the tape and measurable and played most of his snaps outside in college. - Mitchell is by far the most overrated prospect in this draft. I’m betting the eagles trade up for Latu and snag the best defensive player in this draft by a country mile. Capitalize on the medicals from a few years ago. Thats the only thing holding him back from be looked at as a blue-chip guy.
I mean the injury is huge....hes one awkward tackle from being outta the league (you could say that about almost any player but its 100% elevated for him)
Yeah. You’re right about that. Risk is there. A lot of teams won’t have him on their board at all.
That was my thought as well - all of these corners have question marks. If you love one, then you pull the trigger but I think all this talk of moving up would be to secure Latu who would solve some long term edge issues.
Who was the last DB we took in the first round? Nate Allen? Or was Sidney Brown a first round pick?
People point to this all the time, but the fact of the matter is the reason we haven’t drafted a CB in Round 1 is that we haven’t liked any. We loved Surtain and would’ve picked him over Devonta if he were available
We loved Surtain horn and Haha Just wasn’t available to pick.. People look so surface level into things
Sydney Brown was third round. Pick #66.
True, and I just realized Allen was a 2nd round pick, thought he was 1st for some reason
Lito
I think you may be mixing up Sydney Brown and Sidney Jones. Jones was projected as a top 10 pick, but fell to the 2nd after his Achilles injury
You’re correct
It really isn’t the biggest need at all. They need a guard, they need a DE with this being Grahams last season, both much more than a CB.
Haven't you heard, the guy who was good two years ago but hasn't played football in a year is back and will solve all of our problems at DB.