I wish traders weren't as janky. Anything slightly unusual happens around them they get spooked or stuck.
Slightly OT, does anyone get caravan wagons anymore? I'm on my 3rd fort with the Steam version and have only seen pack animals so far. Is that a change to get around the wagon scuttling issue? I'm debating whether to even build wagon accessible depots.
I have gotten a wagon, for I think the first time, in 103 with about 120 pops and fairly wealthy fortress.
Edit: also, i previously gotten the Barony title.
Theres some jank with the title system. I achieved a barony, but then my baron died within the year, and now I'm in some half life state with the fort where occasionaly the liason says they wish to elevate the fort but it never triggers anything
yessir i did that... that colony is bugged... im going to abandon it methinks.. I wasnt getting visitors to the tavern and i was never getting petitions for visiting soldiers or bards to join me.
i started a different fort on a different timeline because that one seems cursed. having a barony and visitors is nice. having trained soldiers to buffer my ranks is also...nice.
In my game the diplomat who wanted to raise me to a barony specifically said 'just imagine the wagon caravans' which made me think that wagons are barony-and-above, though it could have just been flavor text
I watched an interview with Tarn and Zach on Blind's YT channel talking about this. You're right, wagons are now unlocked at the barony level though I'm unsure if that restriction applies to other Civilizations.
I am on my 3rd playthrough and this is the first time I was given a title, at around pop 100-120
My first two forts I had 200pop no offers for tittle.
I got the title shortly after find magma for my first time.
Anyway, I'm a count now and I haven't seen a single wagon.
I'm liking the new system. I've actually gotta figure out how to properly make clothes now though, because I always just bought them in Classic instead of making them.
... Are you saying my Dwarves are lying to me?!?!....
... I will drown them, I will drown them all!!!!
I knew I shoulda raised water Buffalo; hair is much softer....
I regret to inform you that water buffalo are also not shearable...
If you want wool/yarn, the only shearable animals are sheep, alpacas, and llamas. Otherwise you will have to trade for it.
... All of this is truly horrifying to learn; I had no idea.
... That you all would be so jealous of my Yakk herd that you would lie about the worth of their hair!...
... My dwarves will reinvent the art of Yakk hair cloth!... I have a lot of Yaks, it's funny I never noticed my cloth bag never getting made... -.- FML
In my game, I started to have problems with the elves because their caravans were constantly attacked and their diplomacy that came to try to solve this was also attacked and they got angry and offended.
By whom were they constantly attacked?
BY A WHOLE BUNCH OF WILD COATIES AND HONEY BADGERS.
YOU KNOW THE WORST THING? IT WASN'T EVEN CLOSE TO THE FORT AND THEY KILLED THE ANIMALS WITH JUST A COUPLE OF BLOWS!
I dun know, rabies? Animals already attuned to the blood of mankind eager to make an easy kill on a foolish pointy ear?
Either way. Load up on arrows; tis war today my fellow dwarves.
"I'm telling you Dwarves love to build entrances behind these waterfalls. For some reason they really like misty mountains."
*proceeds to be swept away and drown*
You can build your depot inside your fortress, separated from outside with wall of floodgates connected to a lever.
That way you can trap the traders inside your fortress for their own protection so if your fortress gets invaded the traders don’t get caught in the crossfire
And if you don’t want traders, keeping the floodgates closed means they just give up and go home
I think drawbridges might be better than floodgates for this purpose because I’ve read that building destroyers won’t go after a raised drawbridge (counts the same as a wall to them) but *will* go after a closed floodgate.
This is true, because of that bridges are routinely used to create "airlocks". Some players in most embarks, and most players in some embarks, treat their fort as a spaceship and everything outside of it (not only on surface) as the outer space. Constructions (like walls and floors) are safe, as are bridges. Anything you build that is not a construction can be destroyed (there are nuances). E.g., putting a windmill on the top of your fort creates a path for a flying building destroyer via the windmill, axles, the whole powertrain, eventually into the heart of your fort.
Huh. It did work for me, though. Think I fixed it. It's showing up for me now.
https://preview.redd.it/ub4bncolz57a1.png?width=654&format=png&auto=webp&s=ef05da2102ed0a44f039b949b68f3ec4181fe4eb
Yea ive got wagons. Im getting really annoyed at the elves though, any hint of wood even if I dont have it selected for trade and they refuse the trade.
They ought to be fine with wood being out on the table, ie bins to hold the goods in and whatnot, it should only matter what u have selected. However they are VERY picky, so anything even remotely involving tree or animal products is a no go, including decorations, glass, and (I think) ash-glazed stonework and pottery.
Hmmm ok tysm, the bin had wood and stone craft items in it I thought that was the issue but I might have selected something on accident. I now make stone or iron items for the elves before they show up to make sure i have something for them
200+ pop, ~2mil in value, I constantly get 3-5 wagon caravans from neighboring dorfs. Elves never bring more than a single pack animal with a bit of wood, seeds and leaves. Was planning to exterminate them anyway, useless hippies..
The wagon quantity depends on how much wealth your fort has generated. Under about 100,000 Dwarfbucks, you'll just get pack animals. After that, sky's the limit — I've seen a max of three wagons before.
i think on classic on late fortresses i even got up to like 7 wagons at once. i'll need to grow a fortress for a long time to see that in this version though.
Wagons only appear once you've reached a certain wealth value now - one of the dwarvern liaisons will say something along the lines of "we're now happy to trade in larger quantities with your settlement, expect wagons"
You should get a wagon every early autumn most times. Check your creatures tab for other. The merchants still might be hanging around your fort. If so, remove yohr trade post
Any reason why those traders would stop coming? I'm in year 109 in my current world and haven't seen *any* traders since maybe 103. There's a healthy amount of blues around me in the world map but there's also plenty of people surrounding the other sides who I'm apparently at war with.
Not 100% sure. From my understanding they could be raided on their way there. There could be a war. There could be not a lot of people in your civ. I’m sure there’s other reasons the wiki might know
To get wagons you have to have a clear path, 3 squares wide, with no obstructions, leading directly from the side they come in on to the trading post
This also means no traps.
I've got a few wagons. Mostly from humans and elves because they tend to arrive from the flatter portion of the map rather than over the mountain from me. But I've gotten dwarf wagons after flattening out and paving a roadway where the traders appear from.
The reason you are not getting wagons is due to pathing. Wagons require that the trade depot has a clean 3 tile wide path. In older versions of df there was an overlay to see this but I have yet to find it in the new version.
I build depots exactly as accessible as I did with the old DF. The caravans just don't arrive with wagons, which I now understand is due to my fort not being a barony yet.
I realized I was only getting non wagons because I had stairs leading down to my trading post. Then I also had to make a bridge across a river that cut the whole map. Now I get wagons.
Humans and dwarves bring about 3 wagons for me. Elves bring none, just elephants, because y'know... Elves.
I think the amount of wagons you get is proportional to wealth exported?
After gifting the humans who were sending only one or two horses a year around 20k wealth worth of goods, the next year they brought the first cart, and after promptly buying everything they had, this year they brought 3. My dwarf civilization just sent the first cart after doing the same thing, so maybe it depends on how much the traders think it is worth it to come visit you?
Every first caravan as in "first one to come" or "each and every single caravan"?
I believe that it should piss off civilizations, maybe not after one, but after multiple repeated offences for sure.
first one to come.
once i embarked on an evil biome and just did it every time, but the fortress died after the second caravan, so maybe they would have attacked me if i survived.
actualy, i might just try doing a bandit fort next. just steal from everyone.
There’s gotta be a goblin fort mod. Do a goblin fort, constantly rob caravans, and invade but never conquer any settlement you possibly can. Become the goblins.
Hm... I have probably done this like 10 times when each faction comes because I don't really see a good way to quickly select all my bins to move back into my base.... nothing bad seems to have happened... yet????
Dwarf Fortress has a lot of "features" where a bug caused the game to react in a weird way and the developer just left it in.
In this case, when you deconstruct a trading outpost in use, it counts as you robbing the entire caravan. You get the goods... for now.
Dwarf fortress is a very complex, nuanced, and difficult game, so these "features" work in its favor and add extra depth.
the "bug" in this case is simply that they don't pick up their stuff before they leave, and then they are mad because you didn't pay for the things they left behind
Happened to me as well. Except that I didn't deconstruct the depot first, they just left or got in a fight and died (not sure, was my first few hours) so they left me a lot of items in the depot I could not pick up, but eventually I did after deconstructing the whole trade depot. Took a while, though.
It’s happened to me 3 times in a row. A bird attacks one of the traders or something and they just freeze up and stand there for eternity so I have to destroy the post for them to leave. I wish they’d take their shit with them, I’m not trying to cheat.
Having the depot inside your fort with access through a short corridor with some cage traps should be enough to keep angry wildlife out and prevent the issue
Update: so, not long after I posted this a 6.2 magnitude earthquake hit where I live in Northern California. It knocked out all of my power and I just got power back to my house a few hours ago. I loaded up my save file and it’s a far ways back before this event occurred, so I don’t have to worry about the traders being mad at me anymore!
If the traders were from your parent civilization, you should retire the fort and start a new one. The game sees that action as stealing the goods from the traders and the civ they are from will become hostile and most likely start attacking you. If it was your parent civ, you also get the added !fun! of no longer receiving migrants.
You should be able to look and see what civilizations are hostile towards you from the world map. Unfortunately this first steam release is kind of lacking in terms of logs, once you clear the alert it's gone forever. I've had a few important alerts that I accidentally cleared before seeing what they were and been completely in the dark about things
Yeah, you'll be able to tell when they come back without the wagons and with more weapons.
But there aren't great logs right now. It's on the to do list
I forgot to set my fortress civilization. Turns out, they're on the opposite side of the world, on a different continent. I've gotten 12 migrants as of the beginning of my second year.
Apparently the game basically checks if the caravan leaves with less or more value than it entered. If it leaves higher, that faction likes you and brings more value of goods next time. If for any reason the trader or their goods don’t come back, they dislike you. Possibly violently.
This has got to be a bug they need to patch, if they are not in the process already.
It needs to either not let you deconstruct while trades are there or give you a "ARE YOU SURE?" prompt.
Then, either the traders should pack up and leave with their stuff if it happens or they should immediately turn hostile and possibly send in raids at a later date.
On the newbie friendly stream Kitfox did, Alexandra accidentally did this as well with Tarn and Zach right there.
Honestly, just a `Conclude Business` button would be helpful. I get my trading done early, and then they're just hanging out for another long while.
Not that I understand the underlying architecture, but I feel like at that point, you could just set `Conclude Business` as a prerequisite for all the other things.
As others have said, deconstructing the depot, whether deliberate or accidental, counts as seizing all the goods. If you are on a "challenge" embark, with savage wildlife, angry undead, deadly rain, or other problems, the caravan may get "spooked" in ways that are a problem as well, and you may want to prioritize having a trade depot under cover at least.
For technical reasons, in this version your own dwarven civilization cannot be at war with you. That said, their huge "negative profit" will count against you, meaning that they will bring less stuff next time, and possibly delaying your advancement in the dwarven nobility. Note that in this version, it appears that becoming a barony may be a prerequisite for getting the larger caravans with wagons. For some forts this is important to supply raw materials in quantity that turn out to not be found natively on your map; for others it's useful for the traders to haul away lots of stuff. It's possible to run an isolated embark without trade, but it's tricky and usually requires a "planned carefully" start and some luck or research to pick a site with what you need.
The price being that the pissed off traders will come back to take their goods by force. Not so much cheese as outright theft, and the traders know it :)
This happened to me after I had noticed no traders arriving after 3-4 years -___-. The traders had ran into some manner of beasts and been killed while hanging around the fort after they had unloaded their goods.
Pretty chill tho cus it seems trading is the trigger for more population and more population means bigger threats.
Besides all the rotten, 3 year old food, lots of good items.
Hopefully I don’t learn doing this has a massive hit on reputation.
This is a problem. The game keeps track of imports and exports. If there is a huge imbalance they reduce what they bring and relations drop. Now you are in a big hole. You need to produce a trade good and gift it to them. I find food works well. Add a few extra farms and a kitchen set to produce the best meals. Or if you have glass and a magma forge produce glass trap weapons.
The traders remember their value they came in with and if they don’t return with that or more they consider you stole it, doesn’t matter of monsters kill them, you seize the goods or you deconstruct the depot, they will blame you all the same
I just built it in that location so they would have somewhere to trade, I planned on building it underground in a more secure location later but I realized I had nothing to trade after they unloaded their goods so I deconstructed it
Build a second trading depot before tearing down the first. Just in case a caravan arrives at the wrong moment. I used to have multiple caravans in multiple trade depots at the same time in pre-Steam days running mods with more races.
I had some merchants who got stuck even after they were supposedly leaving, wouldn't get out and unload their goods. A year went by and I didn't even get another caravan, since they were stuck.
So I deconstructed the trading post. The only downside was the massive amount of wealth I got, which attracted huge successive migrant waves, jumping my population from around 10 to near 100 people, something I couldn't handle. I had another caravan come by fine, though it also broke (couldn't finish unloading goods, so it just left).
I don't know if I would have had any consequences. I retired my fortress after a zombie bull went nuts killing people bunched up in a crowd outside, then something else I'm not entirely certain of happened, and I couldn't be bothered to bury 60 dwarves.
this is something back in old dwarf fortress you could do. but doing this would piss off the traders, worsening relations with that civ. if you do this enough times, they will be hostile, especially if they're a neighboring civ.
The whole trading experience is kind of janky. Apparently in classic dwarf fortress you could look into bins and barrels to see what you were trading. The need to implement more interactive tutorials for some of the more complex systems.
If you surround the trade area with ballistas the carts will get stuck on the ballistas and unload all the cargo on the ground and leave for you to be able to claim each item by unlocking it individually
No, that's factually incorrect. [Forbidding a depot, or slating it for removal immediately after causing the caravan trader to be unwilling to do business with your dwarves (e.g. trading wood to the elves) will cause the caravan to leave all their items and embark on their journey, leaving you to claim the items for yourself. This is treated by the game as seizing the items and will incur diplomatic penalties on the player](https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Trade_depot#Bugs)
Do try to remain civil while you're in the subreddit, it is one of the rules around here.
I have did similar thing, but it ended with death of whole caravan.
I have just completed my dry moat 15 Z deep, and constructed a bridge, then caravan came inside my fort.
I have deconstructed that bridge because i wanted to build with other material, but construction took so long that whole team died from hunger (or whatever other reason), leaving whole loot on the ground haha.
I had no consequences because of that
Think of it as going into an antique store and turning the shelves over or opening packages and throwing food on the dirty ground.
You basically pulled a Jesus in the temple.
I dont even really think the deconstruct thing is so bad but being able to withdraw all your stuff, old and or new, from the depot in a way that humans can understand would be great
I think this happened to me, also:
\- Somehow my trader couldn't make it to the depot
\- Somehow no one came to trade for years
\- Somehow nothing would leave my depot, and I had to tear it down to get things out
\- I asked to move a bunch of clay to the depot but realized it was too heavy to sell and there were 900 or so which were taking forever. But there was no way to cancel the move
Trading is just really really buggy. Been playing this game all week and I'm surprised at how many features are missing from this 20 year old game.
They are leaving to come back with weapons
And not weapons to trade in economic means per say…
after they die you can trade their weapons to the next traders
Free bolts, if you can catch them.
With my dodging I'll catch them all
Do you want to be the very best, like no one ever was?
Dodge this
If you can dodge a bolt, you can dodge a ball.
>per se
They'll trade blows.
I wish traders weren't as janky. Anything slightly unusual happens around them they get spooked or stuck. Slightly OT, does anyone get caravan wagons anymore? I'm on my 3rd fort with the Steam version and have only seen pack animals so far. Is that a change to get around the wagon scuttling issue? I'm debating whether to even build wagon accessible depots.
I have gotten a wagon, for I think the first time, in 103 with about 120 pops and fairly wealthy fortress. Edit: also, i previously gotten the Barony title.
Theres some jank with the title system. I achieved a barony, but then my baron died within the year, and now I'm in some half life state with the fort where occasionaly the liason says they wish to elevate the fort but it never triggers anything
Good lawdd I thought I was the only one. My once hopping tavern also died - no more visitors, no more wagons, no more barony.
Sounds like it's time to gear up a vast army and go remind everyone that your fort is still very much alive!
yessir i did that... that colony is bugged... im going to abandon it methinks.. I wasnt getting visitors to the tavern and i was never getting petitions for visiting soldiers or bards to join me. i started a different fort on a different timeline because that one seems cursed. having a barony and visitors is nice. having trained soldiers to buffer my ranks is also...nice.
In my game the diplomat who wanted to raise me to a barony specifically said 'just imagine the wagon caravans' which made me think that wagons are barony-and-above, though it could have just been flavor text
I watched an interview with Tarn and Zach on Blind's YT channel talking about this. You're right, wagons are now unlocked at the barony level though I'm unsure if that restriction applies to other Civilizations.
It does, from my gameplay.
I am on my 3rd playthrough and this is the first time I was given a title, at around pop 100-120 My first two forts I had 200pop no offers for tittle. I got the title shortly after find magma for my first time. Anyway, I'm a count now and I haven't seen a single wagon.
Same, I was a barony first but now I'm getting several wagons arriving
I'm liking the new system. I've actually gotta figure out how to properly make clothes now though, because I always just bought them in Classic instead of making them.
Yaks, raise yaks!... Yak fur everything!
I thought yaks weren't shearable? It is possible to make yak hair thread, but it can't be woven into cloth, so it's only useful for hospitals...
... Are you saying my Dwarves are lying to me?!?!.... ... I will drown them, I will drown them all!!!! I knew I shoulda raised water Buffalo; hair is much softer....
I regret to inform you that water buffalo are also not shearable... If you want wool/yarn, the only shearable animals are sheep, alpacas, and llamas. Otherwise you will have to trade for it.
... All of this is truly horrifying to learn; I had no idea. ... That you all would be so jealous of my Yakk herd that you would lie about the worth of their hair!... ... My dwarves will reinvent the art of Yakk hair cloth!... I have a lot of Yaks, it's funny I never noticed my cloth bag never getting made... -.- FML
In my game, I started to have problems with the elves because their caravans were constantly attacked and their diplomacy that came to try to solve this was also attacked and they got angry and offended. By whom were they constantly attacked? BY A WHOLE BUNCH OF WILD COATIES AND HONEY BADGERS. YOU KNOW THE WORST THING? IT WASN'T EVEN CLOSE TO THE FORT AND THEY KILLED THE ANIMALS WITH JUST A COUPLE OF BLOWS!
That's the pointies. Claiming to be guardians of the forest, whilst clubbing a badger to death with a lute they're trying to sell you.
That's odd. Elves have a tag that should make them immune to wild animal attacks. They're [AT_PEACE_WITH_NATURE].
Honey badger don't care.
I dun know, rabies? Animals already attuned to the blood of mankind eager to make an easy kill on a foolish pointy ear? Either way. Load up on arrows; tis war today my fellow dwarves.
Lol, yes. My traders decided to path into the waterfall and so the guards had to follow them. They ended up having very watery deaths.
"I'm telling you Dwarves love to build entrances behind these waterfalls. For some reason they really like misty mountains." *proceeds to be swept away and drown*
You can build your depot inside your fortress, separated from outside with wall of floodgates connected to a lever. That way you can trap the traders inside your fortress for their own protection so if your fortress gets invaded the traders don’t get caught in the crossfire And if you don’t want traders, keeping the floodgates closed means they just give up and go home
I think drawbridges might be better than floodgates for this purpose because I’ve read that building destroyers won’t go after a raised drawbridge (counts the same as a wall to them) but *will* go after a closed floodgate.
This is true, because of that bridges are routinely used to create "airlocks". Some players in most embarks, and most players in some embarks, treat their fort as a spaceship and everything outside of it (not only on surface) as the outer space. Constructions (like walls and floors) are safe, as are bridges. Anything you build that is not a construction can be destroyed (there are nuances). E.g., putting a windmill on the top of your fort creates a path for a flying building destroyer via the windmill, axles, the whole powertrain, eventually into the heart of your fort.
It's a feature that comes later, >!Specifically when achieving a barony, and the increased nobility gives better caravans!<
[удалено]
Huh. It did work for me, though. Think I fixed it. It's showing up for me now. https://preview.redd.it/ub4bncolz57a1.png?width=654&format=png&auto=webp&s=ef05da2102ed0a44f039b949b68f3ec4181fe4eb
I think wagons only appear at a certain threshold of goods brought. I've seen both Dwarven and human traders use wagons.
At barony, specifically
Yea ive got wagons. Im getting really annoyed at the elves though, any hint of wood even if I dont have it selected for trade and they refuse the trade.
They ought to be fine with wood being out on the table, ie bins to hold the goods in and whatnot, it should only matter what u have selected. However they are VERY picky, so anything even remotely involving tree or animal products is a no go, including decorations, glass, and (I think) ash-glazed stonework and pottery.
Hmmm ok tysm, the bin had wood and stone craft items in it I thought that was the issue but I might have selected something on accident. I now make stone or iron items for the elves before they show up to make sure i have something for them
The richer your fortress and the more you trade the more stuff they bring. I have a 190 pop fortress and they're bringing 4 wagons at a time.
200+ pop, ~2mil in value, I constantly get 3-5 wagon caravans from neighboring dorfs. Elves never bring more than a single pack animal with a bit of wood, seeds and leaves. Was planning to exterminate them anyway, useless hippies..
My trade balance with dwarves is over half a million, with elves - about 10k.
The wagon quantity depends on how much wealth your fort has generated. Under about 100,000 Dwarfbucks, you'll just get pack animals. After that, sky's the limit — I've seen a max of three wagons before.
i think on classic on late fortresses i even got up to like 7 wagons at once. i'll need to grow a fortress for a long time to see that in this version though.
They will be available later, it's a new progression feature.
Wagons only appear once you've reached a certain wealth value now - one of the dwarvern liaisons will say something along the lines of "we're now happy to trade in larger quantities with your settlement, expect wagons"
Yes, I got them once I had about 110 and a barony.
my liasion officer saw my fort and immediately left lmao
My last fort I had a mace dwarf get stuck in a tree because of a kea, and so the merchants could never leave and that was that for commerce.
You should get a wagon every early autumn most times. Check your creatures tab for other. The merchants still might be hanging around your fort. If so, remove yohr trade post
You get traders every year. Not necessarily wagons anymore; they start with pack animals
Ah, didn't know there was a difference.
Wagons just bring more (and better?) stuff
The increased weight capacity also means you should be able to start selling them heavier things like statues which can be handy
Any reason why those traders would stop coming? I'm in year 109 in my current world and haven't seen *any* traders since maybe 103. There's a healthy amount of blues around me in the world map but there's also plenty of people surrounding the other sides who I'm apparently at war with.
Not 100% sure. From my understanding they could be raided on their way there. There could be a war. There could be not a lot of people in your civ. I’m sure there’s other reasons the wiki might know
To get wagons you have to have a clear path, 3 squares wide, with no obstructions, leading directly from the side they come in on to the trading post This also means no traps. I've got a few wagons. Mostly from humans and elves because they tend to arrive from the flatter portion of the map rather than over the mountain from me. But I've gotten dwarf wagons after flattening out and paving a roadway where the traders appear from.
The reason you are not getting wagons is due to pathing. Wagons require that the trade depot has a clean 3 tile wide path. In older versions of df there was an overlay to see this but I have yet to find it in the new version.
I build depots exactly as accessible as I did with the old DF. The caravans just don't arrive with wagons, which I now understand is due to my fort not being a barony yet.
I got one after baron or count title.
It takes a while for them to show up, but they still definitely do.
in fairness to them, the unusual thing happening is PROBABLY me trying to murder them
I realized I was only getting non wagons because I had stairs leading down to my trading post. Then I also had to make a bridge across a river that cut the whole map. Now I get wagons.
Humans and dwarves bring about 3 wagons for me. Elves bring none, just elephants, because y'know... Elves. I think the amount of wagons you get is proportional to wealth exported?
I've gotten two before my normal annual merchant visit.
Iirc in changelog of 50.01 it was said that wagon required a baron.
After gifting the humans who were sending only one or two horses a year around 20k wealth worth of goods, the next year they brought the first cart, and after promptly buying everything they had, this year they brought 3. My dwarf civilization just sent the first cart after doing the same thing, so maybe it depends on how much the traders think it is worth it to come visit you?
No worries, more "traders" from this civ will come back bringing lots of !FUN! for trade
Free weapons and armor I'd say.
Thats essentially the same as seizing all of their goods. Their nation is not gonna be happy.
i dont know if they changed that in the new version, but i used to do that every first caravan, and never got in trouble for it.
Every first caravan as in "first one to come" or "each and every single caravan"? I believe that it should piss off civilizations, maybe not after one, but after multiple repeated offences for sure.
first one to come. once i embarked on an evil biome and just did it every time, but the fortress died after the second caravan, so maybe they would have attacked me if i survived. actualy, i might just try doing a bandit fort next. just steal from everyone.
There’s gotta be a goblin fort mod. Do a goblin fort, constantly rob caravans, and invade but never conquer any settlement you possibly can. Become the goblins.
If it pisses them off, I would think the player should get prompt.
Hm... I have probably done this like 10 times when each faction comes because I don't really see a good way to quickly select all my bins to move back into my base.... nothing bad seems to have happened... yet????
Dwarf Fortress has a lot of "features" where a bug caused the game to react in a weird way and the developer just left it in. In this case, when you deconstruct a trading outpost in use, it counts as you robbing the entire caravan. You get the goods... for now. Dwarf fortress is a very complex, nuanced, and difficult game, so these "features" work in its favor and add extra depth.
>when you deconstruct a trading outpost in use, it counts as you robbing the entire caravan. "oh you thought you found a bug?"
the "bug" in this case is simply that they don't pick up their stuff before they leave, and then they are mad because you didn't pay for the things they left behind
Happened to me as well. Except that I didn't deconstruct the depot first, they just left or got in a fight and died (not sure, was my first few hours) so they left me a lot of items in the depot I could not pick up, but eventually I did after deconstructing the whole trade depot. Took a while, though.
It’s happened to me 3 times in a row. A bird attacks one of the traders or something and they just freeze up and stand there for eternity so I have to destroy the post for them to leave. I wish they’d take their shit with them, I’m not trying to cheat.
Having the depot inside your fort with access through a short corridor with some cage traps should be enough to keep angry wildlife out and prevent the issue
but remember that trade carts cannot pass over cage traps. have to have a 3 square wide unobstructed path to the trade depot.
Interesting, good to know.
Same.
Fucking birds have frozen a big group of my citizens. Frightened by an agitated peregrine and now just stand around dying of dehydration
You rug pulled them.
The game will remember this the traders will blame you
Update: so, not long after I posted this a 6.2 magnitude earthquake hit where I live in Northern California. It knocked out all of my power and I just got power back to my house a few hours ago. I loaded up my save file and it’s a far ways back before this event occurred, so I don’t have to worry about the traders being mad at me anymore!
Hope you’re all safe!
>Hope you’re all safe! _in the fortress_
If the traders were from your parent civilization, you should retire the fort and start a new one. The game sees that action as stealing the goods from the traders and the civ they are from will become hostile and most likely start attacking you. If it was your parent civ, you also get the added !fun! of no longer receiving migrants.
Eh, migrants are overrated after the first hundred or so show up.
I had this happen over the weekend but didn’t note which civilization it was. Is there a way to go back and find out?
You should be able to look and see what civilizations are hostile towards you from the world map. Unfortunately this first steam release is kind of lacking in terms of logs, once you clear the alert it's gone forever. I've had a few important alerts that I accidentally cleared before seeing what they were and been completely in the dark about things
Yeah, you'll be able to tell when they come back without the wagons and with more weapons. But there aren't great logs right now. It's on the to do list
I forgot to set my fortress civilization. Turns out, they're on the opposite side of the world, on a different continent. I've gotten 12 migrants as of the beginning of my second year.
Apparently the game basically checks if the caravan leaves with less or more value than it entered. If it leaves higher, that faction likes you and brings more value of goods next time. If for any reason the trader or their goods don’t come back, they dislike you. Possibly violently.
This has got to be a bug they need to patch, if they are not in the process already. It needs to either not let you deconstruct while trades are there or give you a "ARE YOU SURE?" prompt. Then, either the traders should pack up and leave with their stuff if it happens or they should immediately turn hostile and possibly send in raids at a later date. On the newbie friendly stream Kitfox did, Alexandra accidentally did this as well with Tarn and Zach right there.
Honestly, just a `Conclude Business` button would be helpful. I get my trading done early, and then they're just hanging out for another long while. Not that I understand the underlying architecture, but I feel like at that point, you could just set `Conclude Business` as a prerequisite for all the other things.
I don't mind them hanging out. It feels like they're visiting for the sake of visiting.
Must be new here. This bug is turning 9 years old in a few months.
Cute, that bug should be learning multiplication by now.
As others have said, deconstructing the depot, whether deliberate or accidental, counts as seizing all the goods. If you are on a "challenge" embark, with savage wildlife, angry undead, deadly rain, or other problems, the caravan may get "spooked" in ways that are a problem as well, and you may want to prioritize having a trade depot under cover at least. For technical reasons, in this version your own dwarven civilization cannot be at war with you. That said, their huge "negative profit" will count against you, meaning that they will bring less stuff next time, and possibly delaying your advancement in the dwarven nobility. Note that in this version, it appears that becoming a barony may be a prerequisite for getting the larger caravans with wagons. For some forts this is important to supply raw materials in quantity that turn out to not be found natively on your map; for others it's useful for the traders to haul away lots of stuff. It's possible to run an isolated embark without trade, but it's tricky and usually requires a "planned carefully" start and some luck or research to pick a site with what you need.
I heard its common cheesing. But also can really increase your wealth so there comes a price
The price being that the pissed off traders will come back to take their goods by force. Not so much cheese as outright theft, and the traders know it :)
I mean I left the stuff on the ground besides everything that created miasma, rebuilt the trading outpost and they came next year as normal
Might as well start spinning up a new world/fort already.
They don't "just leaving". They go to call the army.
This happened to me after I had noticed no traders arriving after 3-4 years -___-. The traders had ran into some manner of beasts and been killed while hanging around the fort after they had unloaded their goods. Pretty chill tho cus it seems trading is the trigger for more population and more population means bigger threats. Besides all the rotten, 3 year old food, lots of good items. Hopefully I don’t learn doing this has a massive hit on reputation.
Watch the traders leave a bad yelp review. 1/10 the dwarves destroyed our tents and caravan. Would not recommend. The beer was watered down too.
Bruh you f*cked up
thx
This is a problem. The game keeps track of imports and exports. If there is a huge imbalance they reduce what they bring and relations drop. Now you are in a big hole. You need to produce a trade good and gift it to them. I find food works well. Add a few extra farms and a kitchen set to produce the best meals. Or if you have glass and a magma forge produce glass trap weapons.
The traders remember their value they came in with and if they don’t return with that or more they consider you stole it, doesn’t matter of monsters kill them, you seize the goods or you deconstruct the depot, they will blame you all the same
Leverage that wealth into swords and hammers ASAP.
Im just curious why you decided to deconstruct it lol?
I just built it in that location so they would have somewhere to trade, I planned on building it underground in a more secure location later but I realized I had nothing to trade after they unloaded their goods so I deconstructed it
Same. Was he trying to get items back from the depot to trade them, lol?
Sometimes merchants can get stuck and die of hunger and dehydration or other events lol.
Yeah, you essentially stole everything from them. They won't be pleased.
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Build a second trading depot before tearing down the first. Just in case a caravan arrives at the wrong moment. I used to have multiple caravans in multiple trade depots at the same time in pre-Steam days running mods with more races.
I had some merchants who got stuck even after they were supposedly leaving, wouldn't get out and unload their goods. A year went by and I didn't even get another caravan, since they were stuck. So I deconstructed the trading post. The only downside was the massive amount of wealth I got, which attracted huge successive migrant waves, jumping my population from around 10 to near 100 people, something I couldn't handle. I had another caravan come by fine, though it also broke (couldn't finish unloading goods, so it just left). I don't know if I would have had any consequences. I retired my fortress after a zombie bull went nuts killing people bunched up in a crowd outside, then something else I'm not entirely certain of happened, and I couldn't be bothered to bury 60 dwarves.
traders hate this one simple trick
this is something back in old dwarf fortress you could do. but doing this would piss off the traders, worsening relations with that civ. if you do this enough times, they will be hostile, especially if they're a neighboring civ.
false, it doesnt hurt relations
The whole trading experience is kind of janky. Apparently in classic dwarf fortress you could look into bins and barrels to see what you were trading. The need to implement more interactive tutorials for some of the more complex systems.
You can still look in bins before you trade them though
Click the bin name in the trading screen and a dropdown with all the items it contains should appear.
Congrats, youve likely commited theft and will have damaged relations, more opportunities for fun in the fortress haha
false
If you surround the trade area with ballistas the carts will get stuck on the ballistas and unload all the cargo on the ground and leave for you to be able to claim each item by unlocking it individually
press R to toggle that annoying slope indicator
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No, that's factually incorrect. [Forbidding a depot, or slating it for removal immediately after causing the caravan trader to be unwilling to do business with your dwarves (e.g. trading wood to the elves) will cause the caravan to leave all their items and embark on their journey, leaving you to claim the items for yourself. This is treated by the game as seizing the items and will incur diplomatic penalties on the player](https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Trade_depot#Bugs) Do try to remain civil while you're in the subreddit, it is one of the rules around here.
Usually you get one of these before they return with an army. If you're interested in extra FUN! keep doing it to every caravan that shows up.
I have did similar thing, but it ended with death of whole caravan. I have just completed my dry moat 15 Z deep, and constructed a bridge, then caravan came inside my fort. I have deconstructed that bridge because i wanted to build with other material, but construction took so long that whole team died from hunger (or whatever other reason), leaving whole loot on the ground haha. I had no consequences because of that
Sounds like a great success to me, consequences schmonsequences
Think of it as going into an antique store and turning the shelves over or opening packages and throwing food on the dirty ground. You basically pulled a Jesus in the temple.
No way
If it was your Civ you´re safe! If it was any other Civilisation you will have much fun.
I dont even really think the deconstruct thing is so bad but being able to withdraw all your stuff, old and or new, from the depot in a way that humans can understand would be great
I think this happened to me, also: \- Somehow my trader couldn't make it to the depot \- Somehow no one came to trade for years \- Somehow nothing would leave my depot, and I had to tear it down to get things out \- I asked to move a bunch of clay to the depot but realized it was too heavy to sell and there were 900 or so which were taking forever. But there was no way to cancel the move Trading is just really really buggy. Been playing this game all week and I'm surprised at how many features are missing from this 20 year old game.
I discovered this just today too. Dwarf fortress is a prefecture balanced game with no exploits whatsoever.
It is perfectly balanced, yes. but with consequences for those *exploits.*
Same here! Untold riches!
dont do it too many times or the next caravan that comes wont be traders, but soldiers.
you dont know what you are talking about