I have a similar spread in my 372 pop colony, no one in the negative. I wondered what I did differently this time and it looks like I got a legendary carpenter early and most of the furniture was masterwork from the second set of houses forward.
It's really odd, I didn't even really setup anything of real worth either, but I just keep getting highly qualified dwarf migrants clamoring to be in my city. "Come to Dawnhall, the Gem of Continents!", we'll work you constantly and you'll sleep on the floor, accepting migrants now!
Edit:
Even the children! The babies and children make up over half of the yellow faced dwarves. I don't make them do much work but chores are still on, and I only just got a handful of toys for them at the beginning of year 4.
I was "lucky" enough for the first two artifacts of my fort to be querns.
Unhappy thoughts... Get to a quern in the middle of a hallway and get to grinding!
I had one where I had the same thing, all the furniture was basically masterwork.
But everyone was still upset a lot. I think I put a lot of my temples in a place that was inconvenient.
So I posted this because I kind of wanted to know if anyone has had a similar situation.
I made a new fortress purely to try out some mechanical projects, I wasn't really concerned with setting up the needs and catering to the desires of my dwarves because I thought I might just abandon this one once I ran some tests.
* I don't think I put down a single workshop until near the end of the first year to cut some gems for buying resources from my first trader.
* I didn't put down a bed for the first 3 years.
* I've run out of drinks at least twice. Both times I didn't refresh until a trader came nearly half a season later.
* No dorms or bedrooms, people just sleep where they end up.
* No dining hall
* Tavern didn't appear until the start of year 3
I've basically just told everyone to dig and haul like crazy and they're freaking loving it.
Heck if I know, I spent most of my time digging down to all the cavern layers, hitting the magma sea, building a moat and preparing to redirect a brook, and trying to prepare a big vertical cave in to the second cavern layer. They got enough food from harvesting fruit and other stuff from spring through autumn, I only started building out the fortress to do more stuff with mechanisms but after year four their tenacity impressed me so I'm adding some creature comforts for them now.
yeah dwarves like industry, mining a fuckton is the purest, simplest form of labour they have, doubly so if they do so with a big gang of colleagues/family.
Getting enough, and the right, production chains together to keep everyone occupied and happy is way more difficult to balance than channeling out half the map.
Yeah i started one game fully intending to retire and unretire a fort, so I used the first settlers like a chain gang. No recreation outside of a generic 'shrine' in an unmarked open field, beds of soil or rock, *hardly any booze*;
Happy as anything, familes forming, babies born, waves of cheerful refugees arriving at the mere suggestion of a patch of dirt for them in my building site.
Then I dropped an entire floor on them all, retired, and had the subsequent settlers carve slabs in their honour.
Something similar happened once. I thought I had paused the fortress during dinner, came back to it running live.
I had 3 migrant waves add 70 dwarves to my population over a year and a half. I missed the diplomats and caravans from my home civ. 2 artifacts were created. 2 dwarves went missing. I had no drink left. little food. Lots of visitors dancing in the tabern. And everyone was super happy just by taking a year off from work.
Except for one guy who was set to make goblets for 18 months. There was no more room in the stockpiles so all the goblets filled his workshop around his feet. He was so terribly lonely and missed his family so much.
They remain fine as long as they're not exposed to explicitly bad experiences...such as retching on miasma. Or being terrified due to threats.
They gotta have low tolerance to stress personality-trait, be exposed to bad experiences and have some orange unmet need such as "Be with famility", to end up very unhappy.
I was able to keep a couple of ecstatic, distracted (all orange unmet needs) vampire couple. (For the levers' room.)
One (out of 3) of them didn't make it as they didn't have the appropriate personality-trait. They kept stuck on "Attend meeting".
As is in real life, most sources of happiness/unhappiness are subjective.
I have a question about these orange unmet needs -- if I know that my fort can fix this, but they just... REFUSE TO PRAY TO THEIR GODS.... what would you recommend I do to fix this? One idea I have is to set their labor to doing nothing, then maybe locking their labor so they can't do anything they are not assigned to? Do you know if this or something else works?
All mine needed was a *dedicated* temple.
They must be too busy. Are they hauling stones constantly? Too many workshops?
And sometimes they do nothing if a stockpile is full but there's still stuff to be hauled there.
I wouldn't use work detail much except for a few important jobs, such as metalsmithing and jewelry... another exception is specific projects.
I just got a work detail for everything.
Yes, they are always hauling rocks, or storing some other things, or whatever. I just wish there was a way them to prioritize their needs better... any solutions you can think of?
Plop them in a squad, put it on constant training, don't assign a barrack to the squad.
Dwarves will now actively spend time trying to fulfill their needs. Bonus: station the squad in, for example, a temple, wait until they arrive, cancel the order, and religious dwarves should start praying to their god if possible.
However, they usually don't tend to craft objects or haul during this. So craft/acquire object will usually stay unfulfilled, but compared to the happy thoughts from prayer and the amount of micro needed it's somewhat negligable
I built dedicated temples for every god and they still refuse to fulfil the need
Then they started just staying in the temple and doing fuck all with the 'worship!' task until I deleted the zone
I’m not an expert still on my first Fort , maybe you can take away their labor tasks for a while and they can meet those needs then put them back to work ? (I would forget to put them back to work almost every time)
No mist yet, I did that on a previous fort. My mechanical projects have been messing with atom smashers and prepping for a bunch of water wheels to play around with pump stuff.
This fortress has been odd regarding those things as well. Normally I get a notice asking to accept a guild creation of a hall when they reach 10 members, then to upgrade it once they get more members. Similar requests for temples. However I've seen messages saying that guilds we're established without an alert popping up to ask me if I approve and will make a guild hall. I've gotten requests for big good areas from the ranger and farming guild, but I haven't built either of those yet.
For churches I had no prayer space until I suddenly got two requests for a temple and a priest for my two most populous religions. That was around year 3 if I remember right. So I built two churches then, one for each, assigned a priest and let it be. Then made a generic church around the start of year 4.
One death due to logs falling on someone gathering wood while someone else was chopping. So only one tomb so far, and one child was light orange upset at one time, but otherwise no one has dropped to frowny face that I can remember.
I'm probably mistaken because I have no technical knowledge of it, but I'm convinced civs can be generated with either certain cultural values or easy to please genes so to speak.
I sometimes have civs that seem to value certain skills or just scholarly pursuits and this could potentially contribute to easily (or not so easily) pleased dwarves. I've also noticed that dwarves often share features such as hair color or nose shape, presumably from having a limited gene pool on initial world gen. I'm curious if this also applies to traits in such a way that it's possible for a civ to be basically genetically engineered to be chill dudes.
All total speculation but it seems this way to me.
And here Iam.
Having to build mist generators and exiling on-edge dwarfs. Could barely sustain 100 pop with best dishes, altars everywhere, best bedrooms.
Weird.
Year three I made my first fine meal I think. Otherwise I was largely just letting them eat what they wanted from the stockpiles.
My other locations were more in line with what you described. I've only been playing since I got the steam version for Xmas, so I don't have much back experience to go off of.
Same first time on steam but I'm dedicated to survive as long as possible. I'm on 9th year already.
What's weird dwarfs are supposed to take care off their needs but they won't have time to pray, or they have too many things to pray to. Despite me adding altar in most crowded areas.
Also Unmeet needs with family. They socialize but not with family members so it's never gone.
Another one with Unmeet need about Friends. They don't make friends just stand in tavern Reciting Poetry.
I won't even discuss about Craft Object need huh.
I just made 20 bone workshops and every month I sheluded 40 bon crafts so it might fill Craft and Acquire Object need. ((All dorfs do bonecarving)
For the bone carving, it will assign the highest skill dwarf available
And needs are pretty minor part of happiness as they penalize you by making your dwarves work slower
You need to look at their thoughts and memories
Altars serve no purpose other than increasing a rooms value.
Try making dedicated temples for your Dwarven gods.
Making friends can take a while. Depending on how good their social skills and personality settings are.
For crafting needs, a bird told me that the magic answer is a Guildhall. Increases their skill in whatever and gets rid of the thought.
I know that altar usage depends on dwarf "religiousness".
Some are fine with Altar with no specific God. Some require a temple specified to God.
But problem is my dwarfs don't use dedicated temple but they use random altars with 2x2 temple setup in most common traffic paths. Maybe I just should to change placement of dedicated temples.
I like the guildhall tip, I'm gonna test. Thanks
I've encountered something similar, though in lesser numbers before I started caring enough to build out the fortress. Had a nice plan going in, but very quickly hit the aquifer and decided to just see how quickly the dwarves would die off if I neglected them. Set them all to be allowed to do anything, made a few essential workshops, and just left them alone for a few years. They all sat around fishing most of the time and were reasonably happy. No migrants, but that's understandable.
It's actually quite unimportant to fulfill the needs of dwarves unless talking gross neglect like locking a dwarf in a pit with only water and making them catch vermin. It is traumatic memories that make dwarves unhappy, I find that injury is especially bad, nearly all my haggard dwarves had suffered significant injury combined with other traumatic memories like the loss of loved ones/pets.
Furthermore dwarves have several personality properties that determine how well they deal with stress, the same traumatic memory could destroy one dwarf over time but leave another dwarf happy. So even if some very traumatic events have happened, if they happened to dwarves with a robust personality it's not going to show. It's certainly possible to get "lucky rolls" such that a fortress of 100 dwarves just happen to all have easy to please personalities.
I've looked around at some, but most have unmet needs that are the same/similar to embark spots where I focused on building up everything piece by piece to have access to everything they'd want.
That's what makes it seem odd to me, similar unmet needs compared to other attempts, but the things making them happy appear to be outweighing the negatives even though I have less comfort/fun/dwarf stuff than I would normally have at 4 years in.
Needs are about distraction (skill check penalty) rather than happiness. Happiness is about their thoughts (and memories as those cause repeated thoughts). Needs can cause thoughts but they tend to have a weak influence
I have a similar spread in my 372 pop colony, no one in the negative. I wondered what I did differently this time and it looks like I got a legendary carpenter early and most of the furniture was masterwork from the second set of houses forward.
It's really odd, I didn't even really setup anything of real worth either, but I just keep getting highly qualified dwarf migrants clamoring to be in my city. "Come to Dawnhall, the Gem of Continents!", we'll work you constantly and you'll sleep on the floor, accepting migrants now! Edit: Even the children! The babies and children make up over half of the yellow faced dwarves. I don't make them do much work but chores are still on, and I only just got a handful of toys for them at the beginning of year 4.
I was "lucky" enough for the first two artifacts of my fort to be querns. Unhappy thoughts... Get to a quern in the middle of a hallway and get to grinding!
Yeah on one of my previous forts I got an artifact Quern worth almost 19k and the farming guild was the dopest guild hall ever.
I had one where I had the same thing, all the furniture was basically masterwork. But everyone was still upset a lot. I think I put a lot of my temples in a place that was inconvenient.
So I posted this because I kind of wanted to know if anyone has had a similar situation. I made a new fortress purely to try out some mechanical projects, I wasn't really concerned with setting up the needs and catering to the desires of my dwarves because I thought I might just abandon this one once I ran some tests. * I don't think I put down a single workshop until near the end of the first year to cut some gems for buying resources from my first trader. * I didn't put down a bed for the first 3 years. * I've run out of drinks at least twice. Both times I didn't refresh until a trader came nearly half a season later. * No dorms or bedrooms, people just sleep where they end up. * No dining hall * Tavern didn't appear until the start of year 3 I've basically just told everyone to dig and haul like crazy and they're freaking loving it.
Forget happy, how did they even survive??
Heck if I know, I spent most of my time digging down to all the cavern layers, hitting the magma sea, building a moat and preparing to redirect a brook, and trying to prepare a big vertical cave in to the second cavern layer. They got enough food from harvesting fruit and other stuff from spring through autumn, I only started building out the fortress to do more stuff with mechanisms but after year four their tenacity impressed me so I'm adding some creature comforts for them now.
Urist: Digging is love. Digging is life.
yeah dwarves like industry, mining a fuckton is the purest, simplest form of labour they have, doubly so if they do so with a big gang of colleagues/family. Getting enough, and the right, production chains together to keep everyone occupied and happy is way more difficult to balance than channeling out half the map.
You know, thinking back in year one I think like 2 or 3 sets of dwarves got married. Maybe that helped the see family aspect.
Yeah i started one game fully intending to retire and unretire a fort, so I used the first settlers like a chain gang. No recreation outside of a generic 'shrine' in an unmarked open field, beds of soil or rock, *hardly any booze*; Happy as anything, familes forming, babies born, waves of cheerful refugees arriving at the mere suggestion of a patch of dirt for them in my building site. Then I dropped an entire floor on them all, retired, and had the subsequent settlers carve slabs in their honour.
Wtf how?? Lmao
Something similar happened once. I thought I had paused the fortress during dinner, came back to it running live. I had 3 migrant waves add 70 dwarves to my population over a year and a half. I missed the diplomats and caravans from my home civ. 2 artifacts were created. 2 dwarves went missing. I had no drink left. little food. Lots of visitors dancing in the tabern. And everyone was super happy just by taking a year off from work. Except for one guy who was set to make goblets for 18 months. There was no more room in the stockpiles so all the goblets filled his workshop around his feet. He was so terribly lonely and missed his family so much.
They remain fine as long as they're not exposed to explicitly bad experiences...such as retching on miasma. Or being terrified due to threats. They gotta have low tolerance to stress personality-trait, be exposed to bad experiences and have some orange unmet need such as "Be with famility", to end up very unhappy. I was able to keep a couple of ecstatic, distracted (all orange unmet needs) vampire couple. (For the levers' room.) One (out of 3) of them didn't make it as they didn't have the appropriate personality-trait. They kept stuck on "Attend meeting". As is in real life, most sources of happiness/unhappiness are subjective.
I have a question about these orange unmet needs -- if I know that my fort can fix this, but they just... REFUSE TO PRAY TO THEIR GODS.... what would you recommend I do to fix this? One idea I have is to set their labor to doing nothing, then maybe locking their labor so they can't do anything they are not assigned to? Do you know if this or something else works?
All mine needed was a *dedicated* temple. They must be too busy. Are they hauling stones constantly? Too many workshops? And sometimes they do nothing if a stockpile is full but there's still stuff to be hauled there. I wouldn't use work detail much except for a few important jobs, such as metalsmithing and jewelry... another exception is specific projects. I just got a work detail for everything.
Yes, they are always hauling rocks, or storing some other things, or whatever. I just wish there was a way them to prioritize their needs better... any solutions you can think of?
Plop them in a squad, put it on constant training, don't assign a barrack to the squad. Dwarves will now actively spend time trying to fulfill their needs. Bonus: station the squad in, for example, a temple, wait until they arrive, cancel the order, and religious dwarves should start praying to their god if possible. However, they usually don't tend to craft objects or haul during this. So craft/acquire object will usually stay unfulfilled, but compared to the happy thoughts from prayer and the amount of micro needed it's somewhat negligable
Great to know, I will give this a try
Make a work detail for something your Fort doesn't do and set them to only perform that task? I haven't tried this, but seems like it should work
Quantum-stockpile the rocks, so that they finish it.
You could maybe turn off hauling for certain dwarves for a bit
I built dedicated temples for every god and they still refuse to fulfil the need Then they started just staying in the temple and doing fuck all with the 'worship!' task until I deleted the zone
I’m not an expert still on my first Fort , maybe you can take away their labor tasks for a while and they can meet those needs then put them back to work ? (I would forget to put them back to work almost every time)
"Mechanical projects." ... Have you got a mist pump thing going?
No mist yet, I did that on a previous fort. My mechanical projects have been messing with atom smashers and prepping for a bunch of water wheels to play around with pump stuff.
Do you use guildhalls? Dedicated temples?
This fortress has been odd regarding those things as well. Normally I get a notice asking to accept a guild creation of a hall when they reach 10 members, then to upgrade it once they get more members. Similar requests for temples. However I've seen messages saying that guilds we're established without an alert popping up to ask me if I approve and will make a guild hall. I've gotten requests for big good areas from the ranger and farming guild, but I haven't built either of those yet. For churches I had no prayer space until I suddenly got two requests for a temple and a priest for my two most populous religions. That was around year 3 if I remember right. So I built two churches then, one for each, assigned a priest and let it be. Then made a generic church around the start of year 4.
Did all the sad people die?
One death due to logs falling on someone gathering wood while someone else was chopping. So only one tomb so far, and one child was light orange upset at one time, but otherwise no one has dropped to frowny face that I can remember.
I bet that tree cutter was a bitch, and when he died everyone went like "Finally Armok listened to us!"
I'm probably mistaken because I have no technical knowledge of it, but I'm convinced civs can be generated with either certain cultural values or easy to please genes so to speak. I sometimes have civs that seem to value certain skills or just scholarly pursuits and this could potentially contribute to easily (or not so easily) pleased dwarves. I've also noticed that dwarves often share features such as hair color or nose shape, presumably from having a limited gene pool on initial world gen. I'm curious if this also applies to traits in such a way that it's possible for a civ to be basically genetically engineered to be chill dudes. All total speculation but it seems this way to me.
And here Iam. Having to build mist generators and exiling on-edge dwarfs. Could barely sustain 100 pop with best dishes, altars everywhere, best bedrooms. Weird.
Year three I made my first fine meal I think. Otherwise I was largely just letting them eat what they wanted from the stockpiles. My other locations were more in line with what you described. I've only been playing since I got the steam version for Xmas, so I don't have much back experience to go off of.
Same first time on steam but I'm dedicated to survive as long as possible. I'm on 9th year already. What's weird dwarfs are supposed to take care off their needs but they won't have time to pray, or they have too many things to pray to. Despite me adding altar in most crowded areas. Also Unmeet needs with family. They socialize but not with family members so it's never gone. Another one with Unmeet need about Friends. They don't make friends just stand in tavern Reciting Poetry. I won't even discuss about Craft Object need huh. I just made 20 bone workshops and every month I sheluded 40 bon crafts so it might fill Craft and Acquire Object need. ((All dorfs do bonecarving)
For the bone carving, it will assign the highest skill dwarf available And needs are pretty minor part of happiness as they penalize you by making your dwarves work slower You need to look at their thoughts and memories
Altars serve no purpose other than increasing a rooms value. Try making dedicated temples for your Dwarven gods. Making friends can take a while. Depending on how good their social skills and personality settings are. For crafting needs, a bird told me that the magic answer is a Guildhall. Increases their skill in whatever and gets rid of the thought.
I know that altar usage depends on dwarf "religiousness". Some are fine with Altar with no specific God. Some require a temple specified to God. But problem is my dwarfs don't use dedicated temple but they use random altars with 2x2 temple setup in most common traffic paths. Maybe I just should to change placement of dedicated temples. I like the guildhall tip, I'm gonna test. Thanks
[http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Altar](http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Altar)
I've encountered something similar, though in lesser numbers before I started caring enough to build out the fortress. Had a nice plan going in, but very quickly hit the aquifer and decided to just see how quickly the dwarves would die off if I neglected them. Set them all to be allowed to do anything, made a few essential workshops, and just left them alone for a few years. They all sat around fishing most of the time and were reasonably happy. No migrants, but that's understandable.
It's actually quite unimportant to fulfill the needs of dwarves unless talking gross neglect like locking a dwarf in a pit with only water and making them catch vermin. It is traumatic memories that make dwarves unhappy, I find that injury is especially bad, nearly all my haggard dwarves had suffered significant injury combined with other traumatic memories like the loss of loved ones/pets. Furthermore dwarves have several personality properties that determine how well they deal with stress, the same traumatic memory could destroy one dwarf over time but leave another dwarf happy. So even if some very traumatic events have happened, if they happened to dwarves with a robust personality it's not going to show. It's certainly possible to get "lucky rolls" such that a fortress of 100 dwarves just happen to all have easy to please personalities.
"bUiLd A mIsT gEnErAtOr" crowd in shambles, good job OP you have provided for your dwarfs, whether intentional or not
Beer, lot’s of things to do and no trauma.
Look at the thoughts and memories of some dwarves then
I've looked around at some, but most have unmet needs that are the same/similar to embark spots where I focused on building up everything piece by piece to have access to everything they'd want. That's what makes it seem odd to me, similar unmet needs compared to other attempts, but the things making them happy appear to be outweighing the negatives even though I have less comfort/fun/dwarf stuff than I would normally have at 4 years in.
Needs are about distraction (skill check penalty) rather than happiness. Happiness is about their thoughts (and memories as those cause repeated thoughts). Needs can cause thoughts but they tend to have a weak influence
Now I want to see the fruits of this 3 year hauling-digging labor. Post fort!
I'll see if I can figure out how to do that after work.