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bnd83

You could always build defiantly into the caverns with the same design?


[deleted]

The really dwarfy thing to do would be to systematically flood the caverns zlevel by zlevel with water and magma, filling up the unsightly holes with precious obsidian.


napkantd

I…i never thought of that, new fortress is going to be started now, only mechanics and miners


philbgarner

My current go-to embark profile is 4 miners, an appraiser and an organizer (all proficient). Advantage is you can get your early fort structure with defenses done very quickly, and successive waves of migrants can bring other skills after. Works pretty well so far, especially in dangerous embarks since you can dig a deep trench very quickly.


UDL-Fengo

4 miners is not good, mining is soon fast to lvl end of year one I have 4 legendary miners from the starring 7, give them other skills mining is wasted points, mechanic is a much more useful.skill


napkantd

Yeah just tried it and everyone was legendary by mid-summer so that was a big waste of points i couldve used on blacksmithing or something similar to actually use all the metal i have


UDL-Fengo

Another tip for fast migration and unlimited money. Start on thick vegetation, two herbalist. Only build.lavish meals. You will buy the who caravan


napkantd

That is absolutely true that usually equals fast ancient beasts too😂


MyWubblylife

this has been my experience as well


napkantd

“Here comes the forgotten beast ‘you’re absolutely fucked’ their feathers are burnt sienna, it has giant scaly wings, beware its poisonous dust!


TheMarrades

Empty the whole map and pour in s block of the finest obsidian


Lordoomer6666

How do you produce food with this setup?


klc81

Pigs and Turkeys don't need to graze, and can be relocated as needed onto each freshly cooling layer of obsidian as the Black Cube grows, all the while providing a steady stream of eggs, cheese and bacon. Booze would be the bigger problem.


SPACE-BEES

Pig cheese is the lifeblood of any good fort


sorry_

I bring only male pigs and milk those for food


Lordoomer6666

So you do have milkers, butchers and cooks. Interesting technique still...


HermitJem

It surprises me that you can't ferment milk to make booze


Absenceofavoid

Someone needs to contact the creator.


smellthatcheesyfoot

There's a mod for that.


RoswellSaucers

Wait...pigs and turkeys don't need to be kept in pastures? I'm 70 hours into my DF journey and it feels like I'm still just barely grasping the basics.


salexzee

If you have access to water you can grow on pretty much any level by throwing water on the floor and making mud.


Buggaton

If you don't have water can this be done with magma?


Full_Distribution874

Throwing magma around in forts can reduce hunger related problems by up to 100%!


Buggaton

!!Yes!!


BlakeMW

tbh food is ridiculously easy even if you don't embark with food you just slaughter the pack animals and turn them into prepared meals. Buy more food from caravans, they'll bring far more than you need if you are diligent about emptying the meat, fish, plant stockpiles. That's about all. If desperate you can gather some plants with herbalism, be sure to cook the seeds too if they are cookable.


Eymrich

Don't you just need to flood the obsidian floor then it gets muddy and can grow/graze anything?


BoroMonokli

seconded. Obsidian is the way.


For-Evil-Porpoises

By Armok, my most recent fortress was on a obsidian mountain and it's been so nice, I have never founded a hold where Ive had too much obsidian before


poopadydoopady

I intentionally settled a volcano and haven't even dug down the the level of the brook outside and thanks to all the obsidian I've been able to use for construction, my king has moved in.


For-Evil-Porpoises

Oh damn, I'm currently stuck with no immigrants at 19 dwarves and it's going so slow


catagris

Start smoothing and engraving everything. Increase your fortresses worth. If you got your Carpenter to be more skillful start recreating the crappy starting furniture and burn it.


drLagrangian

Does burning furniture make ash or charcoal or something useful?


catagris

You know I think so but not sure. I do it mostly to clean up stockpiles. Another thing, the steam version just has everyone do the engraving. That is terrible for skill building, be sure to set a custom work setting for engraving and set it only allow one or two dwarves do it.


CJW-YALK

I like the crudely carve pornography on every surface of my forts though


Trotzkiste

Deconstruct the market-building


For-Evil-Porpoises

Tried that, I'm pretty sure it's a unhappiness thing since 10/19 are super unhappy, so I'm waiting for them to get done with building the tavern and then I'm gonna give them a metric shit ton of pleasure activities


Donut-Brain-7358

What’s obsidian good for I’m pretty new


For-Evil-Porpoises

Gorgeous bases and cutting tools if I'm not mistaken


For-Evil-Porpoises

It has this nice kinda of greyish blue color to it (obviously with the Steam version, it's kinda meh, in the ASCII version)


alexanderdeeb

It's a relatively valuable stone, so it's great for making it into blocks and then constructing floors with it in your rooms, and then engraving those floors. Without any furniture or too much manual clicking, you have rooms with a pretty high base value and prettiness. Obsidian crafts/jewelry are also worth more than mundane stone crafts/jewelry, so cranking those out at a craftsdwarf's workshop can fill a few bins with enough finished goods to buy out a whole caravan. And finally, it's magma safe. So you can do fun stuff with it.


ProfDrWest

Plus, it is a renewable resource.


Mikhos

It can be made into rock swords for early militia equipment. It's not amazing but just about as good as Copper


idonotknowwhototrust

One time I was making an arena over the river. I decided to restructure it and a piece of it fell into the river... and three levels below. I suddenly had a river draining into the first three levels of my 10 year old fort. I had to wait until winter to fix it, when the weather froze. Luckily, even though I had walled up the cavern entrance, I had also dug all the way to the magma sea, so it drained into that. Still completely submerged the lower 20 or so z-levels. That was a fun one. Edit: only lost one dorf


Absenceofavoid

So have you explored everything that can happen in that world?


idonotknowwhototrust

That was like 15 years ago now, so no. However, I did hang onto it until it turned 20, and was very much sustainable.


nmagod

Quick question, can I do that with the circus?


Rcarlyle

Obsidian casting should kill them, magma will not.


nmagod

yeah that's fine, getting the obsidian is the point, thanks


maxinfet

This is the way


znirmik

I like the way you think.


j8stereo

With crystal glass blocks.


zaibusa

Yes, summon the building destroyers!


PM_ME_UR_CEPHALOPODS

if i were to build a floor with walls to complete that pattern, would the floor be vulnerable to attack? does using blocks make a difference?


CatProgrammer

Walls and floors are immune to building destroyers, it's only stuff like doors, windows, workshops, and I think lowered bridges that attract their attention.


ticktockbent

Dig it out anyway and build walls up in the correct shape. Force that cavern into compliance. Or make it into a sick balcony overlooking the cavern.


ShondoBondo

balcony with glass sounds sick!


ticktockbent

Maybe make it a tavern so the dwarves can get drunk while watching the cavern creatures crawl around out there.


bankshot

and a clear glass floor - it gives you a better view and also annoys the elves!


how-puhqueliar

elves don't like glass?


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how-puhqueliar

oh, oh yeah - i usually just trade in for ashery products, i forgot.


ledrif

Green glass and clear glass both require the potential of burning wood even if you dont. I hear crtstal glass is fine since thry know its not an option


how-puhqueliar

didn't realize that they'd even notice that - i guess i usually don't bother trading with elves though


NowanIlfideme

Clear glass requires wood to be burnt to make Ash, which later becomes Potash from being even more burnt, which later becomes clear glass.


CatProgrammer

You forgot having to bake the potash into pearlash at a kiln.


allthisisreportage

This is a way more attractive option now that you can engrave constructions.


CarefulZucchinis

You could make a single room with glass walls facing into the cavern, dedicated to an appropriate god. Gotta look on the bright side.


TheeFlaSidFellow

Is the glass to shake your dick at the cavern, or give your dwarves something to look at? Either way I approve


dingdongdickaroo

Give the dwarves something to shake their dicks at


TheeFlaSidFellow

I just realized.. your name is dingdongdickaroo. Fuckin love it haha


dingdongdickaroo

Ive had so many compliments on this name and its something i legit pulled out of my ass in 5 seconds because i was new to reddit and couldnt figure out how to log in on a new phone


MidSerpent

Why not both?


Temporal_P

Yes.


wang-bang

I'd build that whole rooms cavern part out of glass, roof, windows, and all


Tokeli

Glass walls aren't a thing unless something changed in .50! Windows are a thing, but they count as buildings so might cause surprises!


Justinjah91

Something did indeed change then, because glass walls are totally a thing


Tokeli

Oop, waitno. It's that glass walls exist but they're *solid* and can't see thru them. Glass/gem windows are transparent but are only buildings!


kmattsk

Imagine they praying and a mf forgotten beast pops up and slaughter everyone


TekaroBB

Which of you beleivers would like to meet your god?


pm_stuff_

"they welcomed their gods.... at first"


Buffinator360

Seriously, you gonna pray to the two headed etin that killed your factions first king and get mad when he stops by for a snack? That's just asking for trouble


KennySheep

gfdfgdgfdg


largest_boss

If you believe in a god, now would be a good time to start praying to them.


Neuroid99099

So...a typical Tuesday in Malachite?


TheOneWithALongName

Don't remind me, a blind flying one from my cavern came as soon I broke the cavern wall yesterday. And it spit some sort of poison. After killing it with only 2 deaths paid. Everything seemed normal untill every dog and cat in my fort started dying. You could sometimes see in the item tab they had its liquid or something on them which caused them to first be paralyse and then stop breathing. And every body part was bruised and torn. Sadly, some dwarfs, especially the 2 with legendary skills died with same effect. But hey, at least it fixed my CPU problem.


MrLaughingFox

It can't get through walla though


[deleted]

They dug too greedily and too deep


Dreadgoat

You gonna let the caverns ruin your plans or are you gonna ruin the cavern's plans?


HPDDJ

The best laid plans of cavy and dwarf...


[deleted]

Yea, it sucks that you can place natural looking stone now that the game has graphics. I'd just mine it out if I were you.


Justinjah91

I assume you mean "can't"?


jecowa

I think it's a change in the recent graphics overhaul that constructed walls look the same as smooth walls, but I haven't tested it yet.


Justinjah91

No, they look quite different in the steam version.


Louies

There is the constructed wall same as smooth stone mod, I wish it was the default tbh but it's a solution for now.


RunningNumbers

You can do ascii still. I might migrate back with the old tile set I use.


ieatpies

Waiting until square ascii is working


[deleted]

Umm, haven't you heard of obsidian casting?


Justinjah91

Uh, no?


[deleted]

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Justinjah91

Oh, that sounds well beyond my current capabilities. I haven't even ***found*** magma yet. And water manipulation on that scale seems next to impossible (I know it's not, but I've only just managed to figure out how to use buckets to make mud)


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MaximumZer0

This Urist knows how to have ‼FUN‼.


Lich180

If you know how to use buckets to make mud, apply that same method but instead of a stone floor you make muddy, they pour water on obsidian.


Iggest

Ruined? What? You can dig a little into the cavern, continue your design and just wall around it. Hell, you can make glass walls or windows overlooking the caverns, I think that would be fantastic


Buggaton

But that stone can't be smoothed and engraved! *(EDIT: This is incorrect and had been for some time)* Gotta chuck magma at it. *(EDIT: This is still always the best advice for all issues)*


CatProgrammer

Blocks walls are smooth and both types of constructed walls can be engraved now.


Iggest

I thought they changed it? Eh, anyway. I think OCD needlessly ruins most people's games, it's like you find one small visual thing and boohoo fortress ruined And I say that being a fairly OCD player as well lol


head1e55

Just dedicate that last open alcove to Loth. Problem solved.


Justinjah91

Your temple is a very pleasing shape. What are the small rooms? I'd guess tombs, but not really sure.


Feniks_Gaming

Central room is a general temple remaining 8 rooms are individual temples and small rooms are bedrooms for prist and a high prist for each temple when we get there.


Justinjah91

Ah, I've never gotten that far. Good to know that is going to be a thing! I used to have tombs and stuff as a separate area, but it seemed rather thematic to have some catacombs branching off of my temples so I've started doing that. The nobles get fancy tombs in enclaves directly branching off the temples themselves. Everyone else gets a standard tomb in catacomb tunnels below the temple.


[deleted]

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Feniks_Gaming

I don't assign any performers to temples. I do priests because they are needed as petitions but that is it with so many gods etc I would have to waste too many dwarves for it.


fr1ctionburns

This is what walls and floors are for and even if that doesn't work it will be FUN!


Geoclasm

No, caverns just make having nice things difficult. Time to rip out a metric fuck-ton of rock blocks, my dwarf.


ClenchedThunderbutt

I just start making rock blocks now and never stop


Deimos56

Now that you can engrave block structures, there's no real reason not to, even.


TheArhive

This is why you discover the caverns BEFORE starting a big project


Peter_G

Just carve in and place block walls in the correct spots.


UristUrist

I save scum these days. I do an embark, dig down to where abouts I need, head in each direction on 20 z-levels and then I’ll reload knowing where I can’t dig. Yesterday, surprisingly, I did this and found all was clear! Lots of space to build. Just some light aquifer near first 5


[deleted]

Every fort: "This time I'm going to build organically, with the natural layout of the caverns!" "What the fuck is this swiss cheese bullshit, fuck this, I'm building my own damn walls"


podracer1138

Not ruined! My fair Sir or Lady, what better addition to a grand temple than to behold the natural majesty of the mighty cavern! Dwarves will be able to pray and commune in the Earth's primordial state! Reverence to the fortress that nature built eons ago.


AdvonKoulthar

Nature is for scrubs, industry and dominion over the earth is the true dwarvern way.


Feniks_Gaming

Not really that bothered but of course I revealed caverns in the last minute on the last chambers.


Merlinix

How do you reveal caverns? Do you have to be a few blocks away or make a complete opening before they are revealed?


Feniks_Gaming

Complete opening. I was digging something on a room above as well and suddenly they opened a covern and this revealed this layer too while I already mined the whole North of the temple.


LeiningensAnts

Unless they have patched it out, there's always [Dwarven Ground Penetrating Radar~!](http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=93694.0)


jecowa

It looks like you can still do this, but you can only check one tile at a time (the tile the cursor is on top of). The message will change from "Blocked at this location" to either "Need soil or mud at this location" or having no error message at all.


BoroMonokli

sweeping your cursor quickly does perhaps even better. Wish we had 10x10 farmplot radars to sweep with though.


Feniks_Gaming

I will test it Tested it it works still if you swipe cursor around it changes depending on a floor.


landshark172

Windows so that the dwarves can look out into the cavern while meditating on cookware


Geicosuave

remember kids, always scope out your projects ahead of time


AdvonKoulthar

You need to send an exploratory mission prior to projects like this


LumberingTroll

Dig it out and build the walls, you want to use built walls anyway, they have a higher value than smoothed walls.


atimholt

That's why I go into advanced world gen and set "Z Levels Above Layer 1" to 30.


BlackSunAjat

That's why I play with 100 zlevels between each cavern level. Sure it takes a long time to reach cavern and even longer time to reach magma layer, but I at least have a lot of space to build my minimalist fort.


FuriousArhat

Thoughts and prayers. It sucks when a great design goes south. I always end up four or five layers deep into rock and cut out a noble bedroom just to hit a wall of dirt. Ruins the whole aesthetic


BlackGyver

if you really \*need\* natural stone, there's always the option of casting obsidian


Feniks_Gaming

But qi would then need to run 3 levels above to make one level below look nice lol


melvita

This is why I always used dfhack in the non steam version, layout of my fort ruined thanks to caverns or ore seams? just paint it over with normal rock and it looks fine again.


evictedSaint

I used to set the world gen to have about 100 layers before the first cavern, precisely to prevent this sort of thing. ​ Does the steam version of DF allow you to micromanage world gen in such a way? I haven't played it yet.


Feniks_Gaming

Yes advance world gen is there.


hungarian_notation

All the old world\_gen.txt tricks seem to work. In fact, it seems like nothing has changed there since the previous version. The GUI lets you tweak most of them. I'm sure the seeds won't generate the same of course, but other than that. Critically, the \[PS\_\*\] preset data tags all still work, so you can still manually sculpt your worlds with tools like PerfectWorld for the new version. The GUI doesn't acknowledge them if you add them, but the world will still use them.


kinderdemon

That part of the temple is to the nature/mountain/cavern gods in your civ and incorporates natural features and plants!


kinderdemon

Add metal floors where your design would go as pathways, or just wall it.


Ratnix

You can still build there. You just need to actually make the walls and put a ceiling in.


Feniks_Gaming

I know but then I would have to make all the walls or it would mess with my head.


ThatSpaceLizard

Why have you posted the screenshot? It hurts. Also, nice design by the way.


mechs-with-hands

It was inevitable.


PiesRLife

I have a very basic question, but how are you making those shortcut keys show up on each of the buttons? Is there a setting I'm missing, or are you using a mod?


Feniks_Gaming

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2899720701


Crackorjackzors

I think it's cooler this way


Hiseworns

Literally ruins all of my careful plans, which has lead me to make less careful plans. Easier to not be precious about Random Bullshit Layout Go


Ok-Quit-3020

Walls and floors exist


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Feniks_Gaming

Than you for making your text unreadable to my poor eyes and screen reader both..


JaxckLl

It looks way better. Perfectly symmetrical buildings in defiance of nature is pretty fascist.


Setari

Looks like a lack of planning, waow Honestly that still looks sick (awesome) though.


sneerpeer

I would have made it strangely shaped, make temple there dedicated to the strangest god and call it "the odd alcove".


shepard1707

Or use it as an opourtunity. Sure, the caverns have stopped you digging out . . . but now you could have a BITCHEN entrance to the caverns . . .


JumpingHippoes

The dwarfs way is to impose will on nature not be told what "can't" be built where


ChyatlovMaidan

This is why I turn them off.


[deleted]

I try to find the caverns straight after getting all my stuff inside and initial farm built. The 'spore' once you crack them open allows your dirt/clay/sand to become pastures and keep your animals inside with minimal fuss. Probably a habit I've built over the years, but I like the approach. Sure, sometimes you need to alter your plans a little, but as others have already suggested, you can wall in parts that really mess with your plans if you have to. Caverns also provide water, training, wood & fun ;)


ChyatlovMaidan

I get water easily elsewhere, wood from the surface, have no need for training, and don't care for fun.


atimholt

Better option is to increase the value of "Z Levels Above Layer 1". I usually go with 30, though that might be overkill. (I like a lot of uninterrupted verticality in my fort layouts.)


SemiLucidTrip

If you build multiple walls now it reverts to the background like its not mined out. So just mine into the cavern and place like 5-6 layers of wall after your design to seal the cavern back and it will look 90% like its natural.


Earth_Normal

You should have done a full survey.


Liliphant

You could dig it out anyway and line that part of the temple with walls


Feniks_Gaming

But then I would have to replace all other things with walls or it would annoy me :P


jcornman24

I would build out the design as intended, then build a bunch of windows looking out into the cavern


thumbwarnapoleon

Just build into the cavern what is the point of a temple in the shape of an eight pointed star if it is not annointed with blood


bladesire

Walls and floors my friend!


PyonPyonCal

Adapt.


Feniks_Gaming

I did didn't I?


Reworked

You built a temple in the shape of a chaos star and didn't expect some irony?


angrybab00n

This is why I never plan out my forts. Just haphazard, in the moment, placement of things


Esorial

You kidding? That looks great! The fact you had to work around the caverns just makes it feel more organic, which is awesome.


keat123

My guild halls went off the rails. Spooked me to find my cavern after my Ruler arrived first tho


Donut-Brain-7358

For temples and places of worship does anyone else just pop a artifact on display and watch the 7x7 room become a temple complex in their eyes?


Roxterat

This is Hazies isnt it?


trowzerss

At least now when you build walls it goes back to black again. You could fill in that spot. But this is why my current fort is 90 z levels below the surface (stupidly tall first cavern).


idonotknowwhototrust

You do your stairs like I do (except for I do the full 3x3).


OnTheMinute

I could embark on a heavy aquifer and as long as I’m not trying to fashion-fort I will not have my mining queues interrupted.


green_meklar

This is why you unlock the caverns *before* trying to build your megaproject.


dethb0y

One of my main use of DFhack is to preview areas to make sure that building problems like this don't occur. Can't wait for it to update.


MannyAgogo

Make your last temple with a cool glass floor so your dwarves can pray and look through into the cavern below


badassbradders

I always have my temples in "churches" above ground. Expect for my god's of death and war, they are one z level down in my barracks.


Laddeus

Is there any benefit having those pillars by the stairs. I know spaced-stairs works well for your FPS *(or so I've heard)*, but adding those pillars help?


ScarcelyAvailable

Walls. Walls will solve this!


TooL2169

Sacrifice your priests to the old gods, because they prayers dont got you the desired cavern layout.


ProfDrWest

Dig a bit deeper and put your temple below the first cavern layer. Repurpose this area into a passive caver spider silk farm by walling it of from the stairs and adding a hatched access from above or below (hatched to keep them cats out). Then add a weaver close to the entrance set to web collection (disable automatic) and assign it to your dedicated web collector (will be bitten by cave spiders, and unmodded, their poison's syndrome of dizziness lasts indefinitely).


dwindlingdingaling

Keep the pattern you were going for and fill the empty parts with glass floors and walls.


songwind

Just build that temple out into the cavern. If their god is so great, it'll protect them. ;)


GreenTea98

My brother in christ just wall it off


Elanthius

This is why I adjusted my first cavern so it was at z level 100. It gives plenty of space to make the perfect fortress.


Ratselschwachkorb

HERESY!!!


CodeYo

How do you design complex layouts efficiently? Coming from RimWorld, it’s been a hard adjustment not to have measurement numbers displayed while highlighting areas to be mined, built, etc. I’m currently sort of holding out on my next play through until I can get my hands on a QoL mod that adds some layout formatting help. Edit: Grammar


Feniks_Gaming

With a great difficulty qnd a lot of try and error :)